The Secret to Having It All (Without Doing It All)

In this episode of the Work it Like a Mum Podcast, we’re sharing the seventh session from Smash 26, our two-day virtual event designed to help women start the year with confidence, clarity and momentum in their careers.

Hosted by leadership coach Gifty Enright, this honest and energising conversation brings together a group of incredible women navigating careers, motherhood, identity shifts, and everything in between. From redundancy to reinvention, burnout to boundaries, this is the real, unfiltered conversation so many women need to hear.

Expect relatable stories, practical insights, and those “me too” moments that remind you you’re not alone.

What We Cover:

• The reality of “having it all” (and why it’s not perfect)
• Boundaries, burnout & redefining success
• Career pivots, confidence & starting before you’re ready
• Balancing work, motherhood & real life

Key Takeaways:

• You don’t have to do everything to have everything
• Success looks different for everyone
• Start before you feel ready
• Boundaries are essential (and ongoing)
• You matter too
• Messy seasons are normal

Why Listen:

If you’ve ever felt stretched, overwhelmed, or like you’re “failing” at balance — this episode will feel like a breath of fresh air.

It’s honest, relatable, and packed with real-life strategies from women who are living it — not pretending it’s perfect.

Show Links:

Connect with  Elizabeth Willetts on LinkedIn here

Connect with Gifty on LinkedIn here

Find out more about Gifty’s work here

Boost your career with Investing in Women's Career Coaching! Get expert CV, interview, and LinkedIn guidance tailored for all career stages. Navigate transitions, discover strengths, and reach goals with our personalised approach. Book now for your dream job! Use 'workitlikeamum' for a 10% discount.

Transcript

Welcome And Show Promise

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life. I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community. In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business. They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced, and how they've overcome them. Find their own version of success. Shy away from the real talk? No way! Money, struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance. We cover it all. Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams. Or just survive Mondays. This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast. This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women. Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers. Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you. They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries. Ready to find your perfect job? Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity. Now back to the show. Hello and welcome to session number five of Art Smash Week. Um, a week brought to you by Investing in Women to help you Smash 2026 to get your career goals and dreams aligned and obviously get you achieving them as well. As people are logging on, let us know if you can hear us all okay. Where are you logging on from? Is this your first session? Is it your sixth session? Um, or seventh session we're on now. So let us know how many sessions have you come on and what has been your biggest takeaway um so far, what has resonated with you the most. We've had a really lively engaged group on all of our sessions. So please pop any questions in the comments as we go and um we'll make sure that we can cover them um at the end. But this session is being held by the um hosted by the lovely um Russie M. Wright, who is a women's leadership and well-being coach, and she is a brilliant advocate. If you're not connected with the gifting on LinkedIn, go connect with her now. She is fantastic, her post is so inspirational, and uh, she is a very much an advocate of having it all rather than doing it all. I know that's a trap that so many of us fall into. So I couldn't think of a better person to host this panel with some brilliant, um, brilliant women that have mastered or are mastering um having it all without doing it all, and um gonna give you some top tips about how you can have your, I guess it's healthiest 2026 because it's you know it's all about you know, obviously we want people to achieve their career goals, but we don't want that to come at the expense of their well-being either. So, how are we making sure we've got that balance? So a gifty over to you. I'm gonna um duck out because I know there's a lot of us on the screen, but I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna be monitoring um the questions, and then I'll come back at the end.

SPEAKER_07 3:54

All right, all right, and um, just as we were thinking about husbands coming into the room, you saw me waving frantically at mine. Hello, everybody, hello, and uh welcome to this session. Now, uh, what will get you out of bed when you're sick? Um, what will actually get you out of bed when you're sick? That is work that you do. How many of us that you're there the night before you are dying? And the next morning you still can't wait. Uh, that was me last night. I was actually dying, coughing, spluttering everywhere. But just the thought of coming to host this session. I got up this morning and I'm like, I am coming if it kills me. Now, if you're doing work that you will not get out of your sick bed for, I want you to take a long, hard look in the mirror. Where are your values? Are they aligned? And today I have got the pleasure of having the conversation, of having it all, doing it all. Should we? Shouldn't we? With amazing women, right? So um, I can't believe we we have these women. So do bear with me as I um check every now and then. So we have Kate Hearn, she is a certified life coach, uh, three times at risk of redundancy, eventually got made redundant, and I'm like, everybody should be made redundant because she overcame this, set up her own business, and she was able to do this by having her why at the center of everything um she does. So when we get to her, she will explain that why to you. And then there's Emma Thomas, she's an executive coach, midlife uh menopause expert. So, those of you having the hot flush, you are in good company. Uh, she's also the founder of Triple Shift, the host of Middling Along podcast. She also survived redundancy and built her portfolio career which allows her to cope with what she's calling the midlife collision. I would leave her to explain that to you too. And then, all the way from Sydney, Hannah Roger. Now, she we were chatting on LinkedIn yesterday, and she's like, Oh, yeah, now put the kids down. She's got five kids. Who does that? Anyway, she's here, she has put the kids to bed. Hopefully, she's not popping her eyeballs open with the um mic sticks. Um, and she is also a podcast host of the Mother Who Shit Show. Only an Australian will call their podcast that, right? Um, can't wait to hear from her. And then there's Penny Moises, the founder of Life and You. Um, they actually have an annual event in Excel in London. Whoop, whoop! I mean, we're talking big time here, right? Uh, she is also a certified uh time hacker coach. And then last but not the least is Eleanor Towsey, director of professional development. Now, Ellen started her career by running a pub. Now, this is a hard course. I mean, that is like hard work, working on the hard God, right? And she ran herself to the ground. I'm not surprised, and then she stepped away, studied, and became a successful lawyer. So she's now, you know, got a successful career in law. So, really exciting here. Uh, we've got all these women, we are going to suck them dry of all their wisdom. If I've had to get out of my sick bed for this, they will they will literally leave here hollowed husk because we've taken everything out of their brains here. So, I'm going to go around the table. So, Alina, what do you want people to know about you that I didn't mention?

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Uh, what I'd like people to know is that I have failed so many times in life, and uh I've failed exams at every stage, A levels uh during my degree um and in my first career in hospitality ultimately, but I've picked myself up again, and at every stage I have got better and more resilient, in my view, and have gained wisdom. So um it's been a very, very bumpy path. But uh yes, you you probably didn't mention that in the first instance.

SPEAKER_07 8:10

Fantastic, fantastic. And failure is something I can talk about until the cows come home. That and this uh having a tool conversation. So um I am going to come to you, Emma. Please, what did I what didn't I mention about you though you'd like people to know?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Oh goodness, how long have you got? Um no, uh not necessarily about me. I thought it was more about my kind of ethos, which is about really encouraging people to start before you feel ready. Um there's there's never necessarily a perfect time to kind of jump in and do something, and and I kind of always hold up my podcast as an example of that. You know, I had no idea what I was doing um five years ago, um, but I thought, what the hell, I'm just gonna give it a try. And and I think you know, uh there's a lot that holds us back as as women from that sort of just effing do it. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, but um, you know, just kind of just try something and and you kind of learn. And as Eleanor was saying, we fail along the way, but um yeah, just uh taking some small risks, calculated risks, and trying things and starting before we're really ready.

SPEAKER_07 9:21

Fantastic. Thank you. Start before you're ready, people always start before you're ready. If you know what you're doing, you're not stretching yourself. Um, right, Hannah, all the way from Sydney, tell us something. What apart from five kids and still being up this time of night, your time, you know. Obviously, you said you have some sanity intact. I'm not sure. Tell us what didn't I say about you?

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Well, um, apart from the fact that I am British in Australia, um, which a lot of us are, the weather is just much nicer. And no, I'm not coming home, um, just in case you were wondering. Um, I am the queen of starting again. So I moved to Australia with a backpack when I was 27 years old, um, on my own, and I restarted my career, and then a few years later, I changed careers completely. Um, I became a stepmom in my late 20s and then became a mum to three under four and started my own business um whilst I was pregnant with my third. So um I am really, really good at pivoting and trying new things. And so far, they've all worked out in a really messy way. Um, and now I have lots and lots of children and a business and a podcast and a community group. Um, and I don't really have the sanity, that was just a joke. Anybody with more than two children will know that.

SPEAKER_07 10:56

Alrighty, all righty. So we're we're there's a theme going through here, you know, start before you're ready, just do it messy, you'll get there somehow. Do you know? And don't be afraid to fail. All right, Penny, put me out of my misery. What didn't I say about you?

SPEAKER_06 11:11

Well, I was just gonna follow on from Hannah. I have two children, and I'm not sure I've still got my sanity, so I haven't made it to three, but already struggling in that part. Um, everything that I do now is because I had no idea what the hell I was doing or how to navigate uh home life and my well-being. So I launched my event nearly five years ago now, and it was because I realised I had a hell of a lot of kind of training, knowledge, skill set in my professional life, but I had never considered the impact of my personal life on the wider piece. So that's what I've been really unpicking and really understanding all of the things that I can do better to support every facet of my life. Um, often find that something's got to give to improve one area, but really trying to be holistic and coming back round. And so, as I say, the last five years, um, what I've been doing is doing finding things to help me, whether that's product solution processes, coaches, communities, um, but in turn sharing all of that knowledge. And I just really believe in the power of having the unspoken conversations because I'm certainly unlearning everything that I thought to be true before having children and what life would look like afterwards, um, and uh continuing to learn at each stage and each phase. So totally relate to Hannah, that kind of starting again all the nuances in terms of how I've got to navigate the next season, um, is something I'm understanding that it's never going to be at a place where we're finished. So I am very much trying to enjoy the dance of life and seeing it less of a journey and enjoying that dance.

SPEAKER_07 12:47

Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, so so the part of having that unspoken uh conversation. So this we'll we'll be having one of those uh today here, as in you know, having it all without doing it all. So, Kate, let me come to you. Tell us something, at least that I didn't mention. Something.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

Um, so I think for me it was very much around that um I got to a point where I was really clear on what I wanted and I'd achieved all these things that I wanted. So I had wanted to move up the corporate ladder and be a marketeer. I had wanted to find my perfect man. I don't know that there's the perfect man, but my perfect, so I I had a husband, so now I was a wife. I had my child, so I was a mother, I was a homeowner, and so on paper, I was like, this is like this is it, you've got it all, like you've got it all. And interestingly, one day my husband just looked at me and he went, Your sparkle's gone out. And what had happened, he wasn't being mean, he was being honest. I've been so focused on achieving these labels that as a consequence I've lost myself, and I'd almost become invisible. And through research and various a lot of internal looking, I realized that this isn't a thing that just happened to me. This happens to a lot of women, and so as a consequence, I was so driven that I pivoted a lot of things and uh qualified as a transformation coach so that I can help women go from feeling invisible to quite frankly being invincible, and that's my passion and my purpose now. Um, so that there's something for you.

What Life Looks Like Off-Camera

SPEAKER_07 14:31

Fantastic, fantastic, thank you. And Jesus, your husband is one brave man. Um we we we all need one of those, or do we? Anyway, so today what are we talking about? We're talking about the secrets of having it all without doing it all. So, uh, how real women, and so every woman on this panel, I think, is a real woman. Uh some have kids, some have even five children, uh, some are looking after aging parents and all the rest uh of it, and still holding down jobs. Uh, and so it's how real women are building careers and how we are having it all without doing it all. So, um, as we go along, if you have any questions, please um type in the chat, but we won't be taking questions until uh we've done the full round, and then uh we will then be answering questions at that point. Alrighty, so the first question here from the outside, people look at us, people like us, if you know, and think, oh, we have it all. And so, what does your life actually look like behind the scenes? And I'm going to start with you, Eleanor.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Thank you. Um, yes, my life looks amazing. I uh a director of a law firm, I work in Guildford, I am a very, very proud single mother of a seven-year-old girl. Um, behind the scenes, uh I would say my life is planned like clockwork during the week. Um, I'm up at 5 a.m. to see the sunrise. I like to have that bit of peace and quiet in my day, um, but but suddenly I'm in bed by 9 pm as well. So no late nights during the week. Um, however, what is so important to me is that I switch off on a Friday night uh and relax at weekends as well. And um I have I have a personal trainer, and what I try and do is factor that into a Friday night, uh finish it off with a with a glass of prosecco and my weekend starts there. So my child is best friends with her children, so I integrate the children, family life, fitness, and manage to have some switch-off time from work as well. Um and with the pressure to being a single mum, I really do have to make it work for me. And on that same vein, really my life is under constant review because I have very little time in my life. So if a work situation, a friend situation, a relationship situation isn't working for me, I have to look at it objectively and then move on or find a way to make it work. Um for me, what is the most important thing is to be a strong role model for my seven-year-old daughter. And if I'm too stressed or tired, I'm not giving her the lover attention, then that causes me to look at everything afresh.

SPEAKER_07 18:36

Wow, okay, so for five o'clock every day getting up, that is just oh my god. Uh, but but yeah, but there is a second one the Friday to book everything. Absolutely, very important. All righty. So, Emma, what would you add to that? What does your life look like behind the scenes?

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Uh, okay, so getting honest here, behind the scenes, it's organized chaos. Um, my house is often messy, my kitchen surfaces are not sparkling, um, and that's okay. Um, that's so I am I'm kind of a bit of a ninja juggler of of quite a few different sort of businesses, hats, and roles. Um, I'm also the kind of default parent, if you like. My husband's in uh in work five days a week, pretty much, although he's got some flexibility. So for me, running my own thing means I've got ultimate flexibility a lot of the time. Um, I'm one of those people that you talked about who's also sort of doing the midlife collision job of elderly parents as well. So being able to kind of reschedule things in my calendar if I need to go and you know look after my mum, my dad needs to go and have a hospital or a doctor appointment. That that's really you know incredibly valuable for me having that that sort of flex. So I I really loved um, I don't know if any of you are following Amanda Newman um on LinkedIn, she's a great person to follow. She was talking the other day about career seasons, um, and I really like that, particularly for women. So it's like, you know, it's okay if the season, the career season that you're in right now uh looks that different than it was, you know, last season, next season, whatever season someone else is going through. So I think yeah, that that's how I sort of look at those sort of different chapters or chunks of of my career. So at the moment mine's mine is um unpredictable um and a bit messy behind the scenes, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_07 20:31

All right, all right. We like us behind the scenes, and Amanda Newman, is it Newman with a U or W?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Uh W. She's an accent, she's a she's um talks a lot about women. She's also got a Facebook group called The Career Mum, which is brilliant. There's about 12,000 people in there. Um cool, all right.

SPEAKER_07 20:51

So let's come to you, Hannah. Behind the scenes. What's going on?

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Well, I uh was also going to say organized chaos, and then I thought, well, I do have a podcast called the Motherhood Shit Show, and there's a really good reason it's called that. Um, so my children are one and a half, three and a half, and five and a half, and my stepkids are 16 and 19. So since my in fact, I can just hear my baby crying now. My husband will be dealing with that imminently. Um, so I have also, in between having babies, birthed a business and a podcast. So I am spread very, very thin. And I wanted to bring a bit of vulnerability and honesty to this because when I was answering this question, I thought I'm gonna need to be inspirational here. And the truth of it is I am exhausted and overwhelmed. A lot of the time, um, my toddlers have picked up me saying, fuck's sake, under my breath so many times that they now say it if I don't. Um and I think at this point in my life, this season, um, balance is bullshit.

SPEAKER_07 22:08

All right. So that is uh that is a cliffhanger there for us to hang on to. Uh and then I I I think with Emma was talking about you know the seasons uh of people's careers, and thanks for bringing the real and the honesty um in terms of what is going on. But um, I also think that you are perhaps underestimating yourself because um you could hear your little one crying, and without batting an eyelid, you said, and my husband will deal with that. Now that is ninja delegation skills right there. There you go, right then. Some people would be Tying themselves in knots and whatever, whatever, and you didn't even bat an eye. So you have got that skill down patched. Bravo. All righty.

SPEAKER_06 22:59

So Kenny, what does it look like behind the scenes for you? So I'm definitely more in Hammers camp. Hammers and Hammers and Emmers. Um, it's interesting because I run an event called Home Life and You, which was formerly known as the Clean and Tidy Home Show, and everybody used to say, So is your home perfect all the time? And then I said, No, that's why we need this event because I can't get it done, you know. And even after all this time of understanding all the processes and the right products to use and getting all the advice and the what I like to call proof is possible, it's really, really hard. So sometimes I'm quite proud of you know how I can keep my house in order and my life in order, but for the majority of the time, I am literally clinging on, you know, with my fingernails. So I'm I have two young boys, um, just turned five and six. I thought it was a really good idea to have them 16 months apart, which some days again is not too bad, and other days, yes, not sure I didn't. Um, I'd recommend it. Um, but uh looking around now, I said one of them has just had their birthday. There are still toys uh that you got for presents that have not got a home yet. We're very much in a transition phase at the moment post-Christmas and post-birthday. Um, I've got laundry out that's drying because really trying to have a bit of a laundry day, amongst other things. Um, and I'm really, really fortunate that working for myself gives me the opportunity to be able to blend um a lot of my life and be agile with inse days or school holidays or picking the boys up for the most part at 3.15. Um, but I do do other things like put them in Breakfast Club every day, which has been a massive game changer for us. And so I start work early because I don't get up at 5:30 by choice, um, usually awoken at that time. Um, but there's always something that's that's having to give, and I think the challenge of working from home or working from yourself, for yourself, especially when you have children or you are a caregiver, is there's always a decision to be made on what you're doing next. So I could have started work a little bit later and sorted out the chaos that you can't see the other side of the computer, but actually in that moment I decided what was more important was to complete the task on my business that I really wanted to get done for the day. So that means that I kind of have to put those blinkers on sometimes for those some other areas of my life, which can be more challenging. So, as an example, if I was hosting a play date today, I probably wouldn't have made that decision because of the shame of having my home how it is. And all of those elements of my life I'm really trying to work on. And I mentioned earlier about unlearning a lot of things. So, you know, unlearning that my home has to be exactly how my mum had it for play dates with a freshly baked loaf and uh a cake there and everything pristine. You know, with there are too high pressures on us to perform in other things, and and the season that I'm in now doesn't always allow me to do that. So I would say ever-evolving um and ever-changing throughout the day, the week, um, clinging on, but that said, managing to find the joy in each of those moments and coming to terms with some things falling off at different points.

SPEAKER_07 25:58

Alrighty, all righty. So a few more people in your camp are there. Okay, what about you? What does it look like behind the scenes for you on a daily basis?

Boundaries That Change Everything

SPEAKER_05 26:10

I think um I think behind the scenes, um from the outside looking in, it probably looks like you know, I've got my act together. But I think when you step into the zone, you know, what goes on behind closed doors, all of that kind of thing, um, can it can be very different. But I think I'm a big advocate of my version of what having it all looks like could be very different to yours, Gifty, or different pennies, and so I think we all think about what society expects is having it all, and I'm a big advocate of having it all is so different for every single person. So, can we not get hung up on what it all is? Um, and so for me, I think what life actually looks like is that it looks very different now to a couple of weeks ago because we were in Christmas chaos, you know, there was plastic everywhere and toys, and you know, the energy and excitement around Christmas, and now we've got back into a routine of school and finding our rhythm again, and that's kind of what's going on, and what I'm experiencing now is kind of trying to get back into the routine of school and school uniforms and getting out the door at a set time. Um, so so I do think it's interesting when we talk about seasons that things change, and what you're in now, you won't be in forever. So I think it's for me, I try and find a bit to Penny's point, that joy, because it only felt like five minutes ago I was picking my daughter up out of her cot, and now she's nine. Um, so it's about being in that moment and just enjoying what's coming up for you now rather than looking at the dirty dishes or the pile of washing or just kind of shifting that mindset a little bit, I think.

SPEAKER_07 29:10

Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what, those pile of uh uh dirty dishes they can be taunting when you're naked uh at 11 pm and you think I should be going to bed and actually leaving the kitchen, they're just looking at you accusingly. All right, so Emma, a question I've got for you here. What did you have to stop doing or let go to make your career work for your life?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Such a good question. Um I think letting go of other people's definitions of success. So I think in many cases we we kind of we absorb messaging, don't we, about what success looks and feels like, and we sort of unconsciously uh slipstream into those kind of career pathways or expectations of uh you know whatever that looks like for you, and some of that will kind of come from family, and some of that will come from you know where you grew up or what country you grew up in. Um but I think that sort of process of being made redundant from not a hugely senior job, but you know, something with a nice title and a nice salary really um forced me to rethink um what is my version of success, and also to kind of let go of that ego of the title, the salary, the the kind of what people saw looking at that, and also what that um you know what what was the what was I kind of building around that that job? Um, you know, how much of my identity was tied into that, and I think that a lot of the time that happens to people in redundancy, there's this huge kind of question around who am I now. Um so I won't waffle on too much, but I think essentially that would be defining success.

SPEAKER_07 31:18

A whole identity piece for those of us that left corporate and had to go and set up our own business when you lose yourself and all that. Uh uh, but Hannah, I'm able to come to you and ask you a different question this time. What boundary? Because now we we know your husband is well trained. Uh what boundary did you change everything for you professionally? What boundary did you have to put James?

SPEAKER_04 31:46

Yeah, so this is uh a good one because when I was in my 20s and worked um in the UK, I was desperate to be a sales director by the time I was 30 because I thought that was the dumb thing. Um, and I drove a car I could barely afford, but it was cool and um you know wanted to have a fancy watch and fancy title and high-heeled shoes. And then I started my business when I had two very young children, um, and then quite quickly became pregnant with my third, and I realized that I had had very few boundaries within my new business and had accepted clients that weren't values aligned and had agreed to change my terms of business for people, and it all became quite messy. So I within six months of doing this, realized I was in a bit of a pickle, and I stopped saying yes when people questioned my terms, and I stopped saying yes to taking job briefs for um roles that were not within my sphere, or saying yes to working with companies that were not values aligned to the kind of candidates that I was working with. Um, and that meant that I grew slower and more sustainably, and it worked with my family life.

SPEAKER_07 33:11

Wow. So that's a brave thing, but again, for those of us in business um to stop saying yes to everything, you know, because you're there, you're watching the revenue and you want to grow your business, and there's always that tension, you know, what to say yes to and and and what to say uh no to. So I'll come back to you, Elena, in terms of boundary. What boundary have you had to put those?

SPEAKER_03 33:35

A boundary that changed everything professionally.

SPEAKER_07 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Um, I would like to speak about. So actually it was it's the relationship I I have with my current boss. Um so I started working for my current firm in 2017 as a solicitor. Um, I'm not sure if it's a stopped. We we can hear you. Apologies, I think there was a technical hitch there.

SPEAKER_07 34:13

We can hear you still. Okay, Elena, I will come back to you. Let me move to Penny. So, Penny, what same question for you. What boundary have you bring these? So sorry, Penny, Ellen, I'll come back to you. Sorry, it cut out. Um all right, so Elena, I will come back to you. I will come back to you. I've moved on to Penny now. So, Penny, uh, what boundary have you had to bring these?

SPEAKER_06 34:45

So I think not saying yes out of guilt or habit, um, and I wouldn't say that I've put it into place, I practice it every day. So I definitely think I'm sure I'm not sure if there's a boundary that I've put in that has has felt easy or comfortable that I don't have to work on every day. Um, so I definitely think um, following on from what Hannah said, you know, saying no or not now. Um and again, something that I'm really working on is protecting that workspace versus being with my children. So one of the things I absolutely celebrate is the fact that I can pick my kids up for the most part um from school, but the amount of time that I'm often thinking about work still. Um, and so then I'm celebrating this opportunity to spend time with them, but then I'm not actually present or you know, my definition of being good and good enough mum in that that scenario because I'm very distracted. So that is something that I am I continue to work on and don't get right every day. Um, and I think sometimes it's catching yourself either where you've said yes to something or I'm not present and catching myself where you've kind of gone past that boundary, and rather than just kind of sticking to it because you've done it now and you're in that space, is having the strength to actually stop and revert back and bring yourself back within that boundary. And I think that's been the key thing for me is to understand that life can be hectic and fluid, um, but just understanding where you can stop a train that's going in motion the wrong way, you know, and I think that's something that's been powerful rather than resenting myself for it, it's just trying to bring it back.

Support Systems That Make It Work

SPEAKER_07 36:15

Yeah, and that that's a very powerful point, actually, Penny, because we all have lofty aspirations and we all want to do all these things, and when we drop the ball, when we have not quite enforced the boundary, rather than throwing everything out and arms in the air and everything, coming back again and reinstating the boundary. That's a very brilliant point. So, Kate, what would you like to add to that piece on this boundary conversation?

SPEAKER_05 36:39

I think the thing that comes to mind for me in this instance is always about remembering I matter too. It's something I try and tell myself quite regularly. It's very simple. I don't matter more than my children, I don't matter less than my children, I don't matter more than my career, I don't matter less, but I matter. And to just constantly remind myself, you know, because those boundaries are really hard to uphold. But if you can remind yourself, I matter too, and that's why I'm putting these boundaries in place. Um, I think it it's it's just a really good way of being able to ground yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:17

Yeah, and I think I my tattoo should be tattooed on every mother's chest or whichever part of your anatomy you want to tattoo it onto. Uh, because we forget that to work ourselves into the equation. Now, Elena, I'm not sure if you can hear us now. Can you hear us now? I can, I'm back. Apologies. Okay, no problem. So, what would you like to add to this boundary question, please?

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Um, for me, it's about nurturing professional relationships. So you can have a strong professional relationship, but also be friends and build that trust and respect. And indeed, it's how I've been promoted within my firm over the course of eight years. Um, I've been very fortunate to do so. But it's about nurturing those professional um context in the first instance, um, being genuine, living through your values, um, being passionate about certain aspects of your work, and actually that sees you through and builds that trust, which ultimately has could be in very good stead for where I am today.

SPEAKER_07 38:24

Absolutely, absolutely. That's great, that's great. Okay, so I'm going to come back to you, Penny. Uh, basically, if you found a home life and you, you must be on to something. So, I want to ask you the support question here: who or what makes your life work? People, systems, the lot. Tell us.

SPEAKER_06 38:44

How long have you got? This is one of those fragments. There are so many things. Um, and I was really trying to reflect on the the real things um that have truly made a difference. So just even thinking about the proximity that I live to my kids' school. I'm a three-minute walk away. Um, I'm a four-minute walk away from the train station. So when I'm going into lunch, so even just things like that really, really help um and might stand me apart to somebody else. The school run doesn't take me that long, but it might somebody else. Um, there are things that I've uh adopted, um, so things like putting um calendar reminders directly into my husband's work um calendar. The shared calendar was not working. So there are so many of these things that I've kind of tried and tested along the way and found the right way of doing it. So that's something that that really works. Um doing an online shop and having a regular order um when I remember to do it. So again, coming back to this in an ideal situation, um, you know, there are there are times when I need to pop down down the road and and do an ad hoc shop, and that's okay. Um, but just things having a place. So I touched on earlier with about um how things are with since my um son's birthday and the the fallout after Christmas, and the difference that that has made compared to a relatively well-organised home beforehand. Um, we need to find new places for these things. Now, what I could have done was made more space for them before Christmas, which is what I would have shared with my community in an ideal situation, wasn't a real reality for me this time round. Um, so things having places so that you are stopping yourself from having to make a decision every time that you're tidying something up or putting something away. Um, and I certainly think the overarching thing for me that really makes a difference is being kinder to my future self. So talking about washing the dishes. Really, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter if I don't do the dishes. But what is going to impact me if a pan is not clean, ready to cook, therefore that's gonna impact the next thing. So if I leave them for a couple of days, that's fine. But when I then run out of crockery to eat my eat my food on, that will be an issue. So there's things that we can do there. So actually, you know, how often are you doing it? Do you need more crockery? So the solution isn't always do the dishes. Um, and it's about what again working with what works for you at that time, but seeing treating yourself as a best friend, you know, how how would you treat that fruit future self? Um, and I think that that overarching thing has really, really made a difference on top of the amazing support network that that I have through through community, um, what that tends to be more ad hoc. I'm still working on that, letting go and accepting help that has certainly got better over the last five years, but I still feel that that resistance. Um, what I often have to do if somebody does help me is make sure I'm returning that. So, as an example, I'm babysitting for for one of the um school mums on Saturday, so I've got that in the bank to ask her. So that's how things feel better for how I operate.

SPEAKER_07 41:51

Yeah, which is which is great. So if you have a few things out of that, but proximity to the school and and train station, those things I'm telling you in terms of the impact on the value of your life, right? The quality of your life. Alrighty. So, okay, what would you like to add to the logistics question or tools or whatever it is that helps you?

SPEAKER_05 42:11

I think sometimes I kind of imagine myself almost like as this circus ringmaster, I'm just spinning loads and loads of plates. And so, really, when I think about well, what makes life work, if I'm really honest and not arrogant, it's me. Like I'm at the center of everything, trying to, you know, like Penny was saying about putting things in her husband's diary. I have a joint calendar, and things do go in, and it's like, right, you know, I can't do the school run today. You're you're gonna do it. So I'm using a tool like the calendar, but I I'm asking for help, and I think this for me is the biggest thing that Penny touched on. It's just to not have the shame in asking for help. There is nothing wrong with doing that. You know, my husband works away a lot, he's um military, we don't have family close by. This stuff's got to happen, and also, you know, the kids are getting older, make them work, you know, like they can put their stuff in the kitchen, not just leave it at the dining room table and go off and watch the telly or whatever, or you know, pick their clothes up off the floor. You know, I'm trying to train them young and get this stuff in while they're young. So I think things like that um are really helpful ways of of trying to get the system to work and and to be able to put one foot in front of the other. I think also as a mum or you know, uh running my own career, being one step ahead, just trying to be that one step ahead all the time, just to preempt uh what might be around the corner is a thing. Um, so if you know if I can do that, that certainly helps too.

SPEAKER_07 43:51

Right, right. So for me, it's uh make the children work, right? So two things there, because people have a whole resource centered there in their kids and they don't leverage it, do you know? Uh, and also it takes a village, and you have to build your own village, you have to build your own damn village, right? So I want to come to you, Hannah. What would you add to the systems that make it work?

Wobbles That Forced A Reboot

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Um, so I also have a very long list of things and a an extremely even longer list of things that I've tried that haven't worked as well. So I love what Penny said about you know, how is this going to affect my future self as if my future self is my best friend? Um, I really love that. But for me at the moment, I have significantly reduced my decision fatigue by being really, really boring with breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We have three breakfasts on rotation. I have the same thing for lunch every single day, and we have five meals for dinner. Um, every time I cook, I make enough for at least two or three meals. So we're eating out of the freezer. Um, and it's really boring. And I automate things that I can automate. So the toilet roll is automated, and the cat litter is automated, and the oat milk that my husband likes in his coffee is automated, and the coffee beans are automated, and things that I don't have to then think about every month, or when we're running out, I don't have to worry because I know it's going to arrive on the doorstep. Um, that's just really helpful. Um, exercise as well. And for me, I don't have a huge, I mean, I'm sure you know, almost everybody listening and watching to this, you know, time is really precious and we feel like we don't have enough of it. And for me, with exercise, I've realized that the minimum effective dose for me is about 12 minutes of running, will give me enough dopamine to. Be able to get through the rest of the day, or you know, whatever challenge is coming up for me, and it's not about me training for a marathon. I don't consider myself a runner, I am doing this for my mental health, and so my kids don't get shouted at. And it doesn't have to be that I carve out an hour of time because I very rarely have a full hour of time. If I can lift weights for 15 minutes, if I can lift weights for seven minutes, you know, that's that's enough. Um, so it's yeah, reducing decision fatigue and just really lowering my expectations of what good health and a good life looks like right now. Um and similar to what Kate has said, you know, being grateful and reframing the I have to jobs with I get to. Um so you know, I get to drive my kids to school. We don't we don't live near our near our school, you know. I get to look after them. It's our summer holidays now, it's three more weeks until school and daycare goes back, you know, but I get to have that time um rather than I have to find things to do.

SPEAKER_07 47:14

Alrighty, okay. So um it's just in the interest of time, I have to move things um along a bit. So I want I want to come back to you, uh Elina Pratt to tell us the time you had a wobble or something with the waste. Take a time. You're making a wobbling woman, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

You can be very wobbling indeed. Um so uh the one that really sticks out in my mind um is when I changed career. Um from my career in hospitality. I was uh 29, um, I was general manager at a huge uh gastro pub on Hampstead Heath. I'd be newly promoted, um, and I basically had to double the size of the pub and the team within the space of a couple of months. Um I suddenly realised at that time all the things I loved about the hospitality side, the people, the training, the food, the drink. Um, it was just I was just completely overall with the stress and the long hours, and I was completely ill-prepared for the position I'd been put in. Um I had you know people stealing from me, people knowing I was a new manager, erosing my boundaries, trying to take advantage of my inexperience. And to be honest, um I was so overwhelmed. Um my mum started coming to meet me uh every Wednesday for lunch uh on um on the South Bank and uh every Wednesday I would meet her and just party because I couldn't get any words out of that. Um so on the fourth Wednesday I met with her. I mean, took me back home. Uh, she was actually not just I stayed at home, I painted in my studio for a few months um and then enrolled at the the College of Law after about six months with her encouragement. Um so to kind of very long story short, I enrolled at uh the College of Law, trained and then qualified to be a solicitor at the age of 30. Um so I was very, very fortunate to have my mum and the support and love around me. And actually, one of the worst things in my life um, you know, transpired it, it turned out to be one of the best things that happened to me.

SPEAKER_07 49:50

Fantastic, and and the world is better for it. Look at the impact you're making in law at the moment. So I'm going to come to you, Emma. Tell us about your wobble and what have to change.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

So many to choose from. Where to put in. Um but yeah, interesting, Eleanor, what you were talking about. So maybe maybe I'll I'll talk about something similar. So I um I was 29 and in a long-term relationship uh that I knew I didn't want to be in, and um basically kind of burned everything down, and um a bit like you, kind of, you know, I sort of parents scooped me up and kind of at 29 went back to living at home for a bit. Decided I was gonna go traveling for a year, um, and and just kind of similarly did a did a kind of a complete reboot. Um and I just kind of think it like if that things like that do do happen to us, and you can reinvent yourself and you can kind of pick yourself up. And I, you know, if I'd been really hard on myself at 29, so you know, I turned 30 in Australia and I was travelling over there, you know, I could really have beaten myself up about the fact that my life was no longer on this sort of perfect trajectory, you know, coming back to sort of that what I was talking about at the beginning about um you know other people's definitions of success and those sort of you know, people are asking in the the the kind of the comments, you know, what people feeling like they're behind, they haven't figured everything out yet, right? We are constantly have potential, or we're sort of put in situations where we need to reinvent ourselves and uh yeah, if if nothing else, just say that's that's okay, that's quite normal, and and it's doable, and and now we're living such long, so much longer lives that we will probably reinvent ourselves at least two or three times in that kind of that that four quarter life, and um yeah, I'll shut up.

SPEAKER_07 51:54

All right, Kate, you don't look like a wobbling type to me. So have you ever wobbled and what had to change?

SPEAKER_05 52:01

I have a lovely saying which I love saying when I'm coaching, which is to remind people that we're all just warm, wobbly human beings. That's all we are at the end of the day. So I'm I'm very wobbly. Um, but um I think for me it was recognizing um that the corporate life was no longer for me and it was all I knew, and I recognized that because the values had changed so significantly since I when I had started, and um, I got to the point where I felt like things were just happening to me and not for me anymore. Um, and it took a lot of inner work and a lot of strength to go, this needs to stop. Um, and I have to take control. I have a choice, and I think that was one of the big things for me was to re you do have a choice. A lot of people that I've got no choice, I need to do this, I need to no, you do have you do have choices. Um and um and and and the way that I tackled that actually was to network, network my arse off, quite frankly. Um, I put myself completely out of my comfort zone. I made a list of people who I thought I could reach out to, some I hadn't spoken to for many years, and literally just said, Do you fancy a virtual coffee? Sometime I'd love to chat. And that just spiraled because from that, people say, Well, you should speak to this person, or why don't you come along to this? Or and it was the best thing I could have done. So um, I think it's about thinking about it in times where you are wobbling to take notice of it and say, Right, what choices do I have and what am I going to do as a consequence of that?

SPEAKER_07 53:46

Yeah, and networking is a whole other thing. The number of times it's a casual throughout way conversation can land you something huge. So I'll be to come to you, Penny. Has you ever wobbled? What had to give?

Audience Questions And Honest Truths

SPEAKER_06 54:00

I am always a very wobbly human, actually. So if I think about too many things right now, I'll have a little wobble. Um, so I'm constantly having to keep that in check. And it's interesting hearing Kate talk because actually, if I have too many options, that's when I'm at my wobbliest. Um and if I think about a particular time, um I it was really after having my second child, where um what was interesting for me is with my first child, I went back to work full-time after four months. It was before COVID. Working from home wasn't a thing, I was commuting five days a week. But at that point, I could just about do it with the commute, living four minutes from the station, five minutes from the nursery. Um, I was there at night at 7:30, ready to hand over my son and running from the train station um at 6.30, but could just about make it work. Um, but as he got older and I had my my second child, then with two of them, um and due to COVID, things were kind of shifting around in the events industry as well. Um, and I'd come to the end of a fixed-term contract thinking, right, so what is going to be next? Um, and I actually had a mentor um and at that point said, right, so you know, what the hell are we gonna do? What are we gonna do now? Um, and to look for my next kind of full-time role, or I said, I've got this idea because I'm really struggling with all of this and how I navigate this and make it all work. Um, and so it was through that mentor that I ended up then launching um the event and my company. Um, but I think what I find really, really hard is letting go of a goal if I don't achieve it. And so that's something that I'm really working on at the moment. That the goal is just an idea, it's something that can be moved. Um, it doesn't have to be that I think um what someone earlier said about becoming a director, I think you had by the time you were 30. I was like, I'm gonna earn this much, I'm gonna become a director by I'm 30, and then by the time I'm 40, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z, and this is what I'm gonna achieve in the industry. And to know that that was the roadmap that the person kind of set for themselves at that point. I am a different person now with you know, with with things that are amazing in my life, so it's okay for that to change, but I still really struggle and often will go to sleep at night thinking, oh, that was that goal I made 20 years ago. Like, should I still be doing that? Um, so continually wobbling, but trying to keep the wobble in wobble in check at various different points, and knowing that that is that is just my brain braining.

SPEAKER_07 56:26

All right, all right. Let's wobble away. So um now I'm going to open it up now for any questions for the audience. If you have any questions, just type it in the chat. We're going to keep going because we have more questions than we have time, but uh type it in the chat and then I will uh keep an eye on the chat and we will try to answer as many of your questions in the next uh seven minutes. But uh uh Hannah, I I I I I know you wobble.

One Change To Start Now

SPEAKER_04 56:57

I do, I wobble a lot, I wobble a lot, and you know what? I forgive myself. I I'm uh constantly forgiving myself for wobbling and for thinking that I'm not enough. Um because like Kate said, I matter too, and I'm I am just a wobbly human, and we're all wobbly humans. And if I am teaching my children anything, it's that um wobbles happen and repair is just as important as the wobble. Um, I did have a specific example that um I've got two really, but um one major wobble in my life that was a it was a wobble that started turning into a bit of an earthquake, and I hadn't quite realized that it was turning into an earthquake until it nearly cost me my career. Um, so I um had a really unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and I've been in sales my entire career. So I, you know, I mean, and as we all are British, you know, brought up in an environment where alcohol was just always around. And I got to my kind of late 20s, I'd moved to Australia on my own, and drinking culture is huge over here as well. Um, and it just became really out of control. Um, and the day before my 31st birthday, um I got really, really drunk, and then on my 31st birthday said, right, that's it, I'm not doing this again. And that was over eight years ago. So I have been sober for over eight years, and have, you know, that has been it initially for the first couple of years was like the hardest thing to maintain, and now I am so glad that I made that decision because every other wobble that I have had has been so much more manageable because of my sobriety.

SPEAKER_07 59:01

Fantastic. That that is uh congratulations, by the way. Eight years is amazing, right? Uh congratulations. Um, so again, people, if you have questions, type them in the chat for me. Uh we've only got five minutes, so uh, I'm going to throw this one out. The one thing, the what thing somebody listening to this, they want to get more out of their career and their life, and you know, they have five kids. Um, what is the one thing that you will say to them that they should do differently? Uh I'll start with you, Kate. And please make it brief. We only have five minutes.

SPEAKER_05 59:45

Very brief. So I think the thing that you should do is get really clear on your vision. Like, what is it that you want or that you want to become? Get really specific on that and and believe that it's achievable.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:02

Very very short for you. Thank you. Short and sweet. That is what I like. Get clear on the one thing, make get into your head that it is achievable. So I'll come to you, Emma. What's the one thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

One thing. Um, stop playing small, stop waiting for permission, an invitation, or a pat on the back and go out there and make stuff happen.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:23

Yeah, for us women, we're sitting there waiting for that permission, you know, for somebody to tell us yes, you can do it, and uh coming with with the problems and all that, you'd be there for a long time. Helena.

Final Thanks And Midlife Collision Note

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

This is a hard one. Okay. I would say do not be plagued by past events or mistakes that you perceive you have made. Um, they are most definitely in the past, and every day represents a fresh opportunity. You can start again. Turn the page.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:56

Love that, love that. We let we allow the past to hold us hostage all the time. So I absolutely love that. Go out there and grab it, particularly now that we are at the style of the year. This is your chance, Penny.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:09

I think just stop comparing yourself to other people and really lean into what is right for you. I think what's really lovely about listening to people like us, and I put 100 speakers on stages in October that will share all their stories, and what we really try and reiterate is this is an example of somebody that might have tested a gazillion things to get to the point where they're then really passionate about talking to the thing that that works. They might be a proof it's possible, but it's not necessarily going to be your way. So anything that you listen to like this, it's a pick and mix, take what you want, what resonates for you, and don't worry about anyone else.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:46

That is the whole comparison game thing is where they're comparing our loft to somebody's fancy living room, right? And is never comparing apples with apples. So uh thank you for that. Hannah, the one thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Uh, the one thing. So I was gonna say get really clear, but once you've got really clear, just believe that you can have it and that you deserve to have it, because what you focus on is what you get.

Rate Review Subscribe And Share

SPEAKER_07 1:02:12

Yeah, so getting clear is not enough. Uh, a lot of us struggle with believing that you know we we we deserve whatever it is that we're going after. And if you haven't worked on that belief, the coaches on here will tell you you you can be grafting forever, but belief is not like you don't believe you know your work, and you'll be there grafting forever. So uh that is really, really good. Now, so in the last uh couple of minutes or so, um, I'm going to see what actually is it last couple of minutes, it's just one minute left. So, no, I cannot go and do another round here because it's just one minute left. But um what I would like to do is thank you, lady, for your time for your wisdom and everything you brought here, your lives give other people the permission to go for it. The pivots you've made, the transitions you've made. And if ever you find yourself crying on the bathroom floor, being on this call now proves to you was worth it because there are people listening and they are literally hanging on to your wisdom and is giving them permission to believe in themselves and to go out there and do whatever it is that their heart is asking them to do. And the fact that you've done it with children, with the midlife collision, wasn't that what you called it? Was that the midlife collision?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Yes, I wrote an article on in Gratsia. If you Google Gratia, Midlife Collision, you'll see the article that I've written. If anyone feels like they're in the middle of the midlife collision, that's there for you.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:53

There you go. Let's go find it on Grazia, the midlife collision, or the squeeze middle, the sound regeneration, whatever it is. Let's go uh find it. This is um my my timer telling me hard stop, time is up, so we have to go. But thank you. Amazing job gifting. Thank you for being here out of my sick bed for this. I'm now going to go back on the lensit and crawl under the duvet and die off my flu. Uh, but uh, it's been a real pleasure and um getting to know you ladies and listening to your stories. Um, have a fat day and keep being your marvellous self. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Thank you. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. And don't forget to share the link with a friend. If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willet and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode. You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.