With The Banyan’s Ruth Limkin: What does a day in one of Australia’s leading Addiction Recovery Programs Look Like?

Ever wondered when a stay in a rehabilitation treatment centre might be necessary? What can you expect if you or a loved one is considering spending some time in one? What does an average day look like in rehab? 

Today we discuss these questions and more with Ruth Limkin, Chief Development Officer of Sana Health Group, which coordinates a network of Australia's three leading treatment centres located  in some of the most beautiful parts of the world: The Banyans Healthcare in Queensland, Byron Private and the Palladium in South East Queensland. This episode is especially significant for Bella who spent some time in Byron Private in 2020. 

Ruth's passion for assisting people to create better futures for themselves is genuinely inspiring. Ruth unpacks the unique, holistic care programs that these treatment centres provide. 

We unpack a lot in this episode, including the surge in chronic stress, burnout and substance abuse during COVID and beyond and how barriers to accessing quality care can be reduced via education, workplace initiatives and policy reform.

Ruth shares practical advice on seeking help and reminds listeners that they are not alone in their struggle. Don't miss this insightful conversation about the life-changing work that Ruth and her team are doing at Sana and Banyan's Healthcare. Tune in now.

RUTH LIMKIN

To learn more about Ruth and the services that the Banyans, Byron Private and the Palladium provide, the best place to start is: sanahealthgroup.com

You can also follow Ruth on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ruthlimkin/

Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthlimkin/

MEG & BELLA

Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub

Isabella Ferguson: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Instagram: @alcoholandstresswithisabella
Instagram: @kidsandalcohol

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:02

Today I'd like to welcome Ruth Limkin onto the show. Ruth is the founder of the Banyan's Healthcare, which provides premium treatment for mental health and addiction. Ruth is also Chief Development Officer of Saana Health Group and together these two groups provide a network of leading treatment centres, which include the Banyan Healthcare, situated in Queensland, byron Private Treatment Centre, situated obviously in Byron, which, I have to say, I spent four weeks at just before COVID so 2020 and the Palladium Private, which is also located in Queensland. Welcome, ruth, to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:47

I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Ruth, would you mind providing, I guess, an overview of the work that you do and why you got into this line of work?

Speaker 2: 2:01

Yeah, so thank you. It's been nearly eight years since I started the Banyan's and it's been just an incredible journey. The thing that gets me out of bed every morning is hearing the story of people's lives changed, and it's not just them that we're able to help support, it's their family, it's their businesses, it's the community. So we know that out of all the people that we help at Banyan's or Palladium or Byron, we're actually helping an even bigger number of people.

Speaker 2: 2:36

I've always been really passionate about helping people and helping people create a better tomorrow for themselves. I don't have a health background in the sense, but I got a phone call from someone who really wanted to see something like the Banyan's started up and they had the property and they were like, could you come and help us get it started? So I said no the first couple of times because I was like I don't know how I'm going to do that, but the more that I talk to them I was like this is actually a really great thing. And so I found the team who knew how to run the program and helped support them to design it and so, you know, really built the Banyan's and now I love the fact that we started. We've got this network and I can help support Palladium and Byron and you know, as we continue to grow, find amazing treatment centres who are providing help and just support them to do their best work.

Speaker 1: 3:34

Oh, thank you, ruth. And what sets your treatment centres apart, and what kind of services do they provide people who, I guess, are really looking for something quite different than needing a change?

Speaker 2: 3:49

Yes, so first of all, you know, a lot of people are only aware of the hospital system and that more traditional hospital system that can be quite clinical. And you know, let's face it, a lot of hospitals aren't really lovely places to stay and so people can get really put off by that. And you know, there's often just a few parts of the human condition that gets treated in hospital programs. So when people are looking for something different, you know, one of the first things with all of the network of treatment centres that we have, it's this very holistic sort of wraparound treatment program. They're all also in really beautiful parts of the world.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Yes, you know, byron Bay, sunshine Coast, interland, sort of overlooking Morton Bay, it's just and actually that makes a difference. Like we really believe that environment makes a difference and there's all the research that shows the power of nature and being immersed in nature. So you know that's really important. One of the other things and this is a little bit unnerving, I think is that in Australia at least, the private rehab treatment landscape is actually unregulated, and so, yes, I know. So one of the things that we're really passionate about and one of the reasons that SANA is really working to support private treatment centres is getting the highest level of accreditation. So we can make sure there's clinical best practice, so we can make sure that when people are coming and getting treatment that they're safe but, more than safe, that they start to flourish and thrive.

Speaker 1: 5:32

Yeah, yeah, gosh, you've just brought me back to the desperate position that I was in. So I was in hospital actually and had was being treated there for, you know, drinking too much and this wonderful lady, who was a doctor sorry who was in emergency just said look, I'm not going to release you, I'm going to actually put you on the ward. You've got a week there to sort yourself out, please. You're out to yourself to find a rehab plan to you know, to yourself and your family.

Speaker 1: 6:09

And I ultimately went to Byron Private because of the landscape, the proximity to the beach, the nurturing, nourishing services that are provided and the meals and that it it was counselling, but it was also holistic and it was gentle, yes, but it was very seriously focused on getting you into a position where you could get back into society and have made some changes. And it was exactly that roof it really was so yeah we were able to go to the gym, we were able to have a moment of swimming in the ocean every morning. Yeah, we felt human and normal.

Speaker 2: 6:50

We were lost out exactly and the food was out of this world.

Speaker 1: 6:55

It was really lovely and it was just a very nourishing, warm, nurturing environment and and it worked, ruth, like it did. It honestly worked like. I've certainly had a few ups and downs after, but it set me on the path of knowing that I had the power to change and I wasn't a problem and that I could fix myself.

Speaker 2: 7:15

So, yeah, I let me, let me though, really commend you because one of the things I I mean I'm so inspired by our guests. So the banyan's, we call them guests, we call them clients at different places. But I just like engaging in therapy is really hard work. Like it's hard work, first of all, to put your hand up and say, hey, maybe my life could be better and maybe I need some help. So that's really hard. And then navigating the complex landscape because it's so complex, and trying to find out where to go. And then, thirdly, just doing the hard work of therapy. Like that's hard work because you're confronting your pain. You and we've taken away your pain relief. You know the thing you used to use to numb that pain. So in some ways we're really awful. But honestly, I just everyone needs a medal, you know it's. I'm so inspired every day by the people who we get to serve and support.

Speaker 1: 8:16

Well, and that leads on to, I guess, another question when might a person need a residential facility? When might that? You've hit that point that outpatient or stay at home, weekly counselling is just not serving you or anymore, and you need something more.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Yeah. So that's a good question. Sometimes we say it's never too late to get help, but we also say it's never too early to get help. So look, ideally, in one sense, you reach out for help the moment that you think, actually I don't think. I don't think this is the way life was meant to be. In terms of residential, like there's, we say, every person is different, their life is different, their health is different. So for some people, they don't need residential. They could do either, you know, go and see outpatient, or we've got an intensive day program that we've designed at the Vanyans, which we can talk a bit about later. Residential is really great for people who need to step out of their life and who have the time to do that, because no everyone can do that.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2: 9:27

But you know we also say, and you know we have some rest and refresh programs at the Vanyans and they were actually developed because I was talking to someone on the phone and he said to me the wheels haven't fallen off, but they're a bit wobbly. And he's like I don't need everything. He's like, do you have, you know, something that's got really good psychology, good exercise, good food and some sleep? And I was like, let me talk to our clinical director. So I spoke to our clinical director and we designed a program that suited that kind of situation and he came and did a week with that and it just really helped recalibrate him. So you know there's different levels of the kinds of treatment. So whether it's, you know, chronic stress, you know heading towards burnout, just a bit of a reset, or whether it's something that's more intensive, for four weeks or so, and there's a lot of opportunities for people to improve their health. Oh, fantastic rest and reset.

Speaker 2: 10:25

I feel like everyone needs that. I want a week at the Vanyans for that.

Speaker 1: 10:30

I don't know a mum out there in the mid 40s that doesn't know that, so good. A lot of people, my clients included, or listeners, are curious about what. What's an average day in the life of somebody that is at a residential care facility? I don't know. Probably differs between the three. Yeah, but what would it look like on the whole?

Speaker 2: 10:55

Yeah, that's a good question. So the way that we deliver programs do differ a little bit between the three. So the Banyans is a one on one therapy, whereas Byron and the lady in group therapy and some individual ones. But the general thing is, you know, the day would look like some kind of physical exercise or movement, you know, whether it's going to the beach and swimming there or with an exercise physiologist in the gym, or even just walking around the building. There's always beautiful food. So breakfast, lunch and dinner, and you know the chefs that all of I've eaten at all of the treatment centers and the food's great at all of them, yeah, and that in and of itself is really. I mean, it's wonderful to have someone cook for you, but it's food that nourishes your body.

Speaker 1: 11:45

Oh yeah, if you've been yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:48

And then you know problematic drinking. For decades your body just hasn't digested anything. So you kind of yeah, I can vouch you suddenly get ridiculously hungry by week two.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:01

You know you're just lucky you've got this beautiful nourishing food. It does help, an aid in your recovery, for sure.

Speaker 2: 12:05

Absolutely yeah. So then there'll be either a one on one session with your psychologist or, if you're the Banyans, or a group therapy session of Byron or Palladium, and there's often some individual things that happen for you, whether it is a check in with one of the doctors or the nurses. You know there's often some homework that you've got to do, so I've been reading some homework and just looking at yourself and doing some journaling. So there's lots of different things in. Each program is a little bit different, and that's because different people resonate with different things. Different people have different barriers to accessing care, so that's why we really engage in a conversation with people and help them navigate that.

Speaker 1: 12:50

Oh, it just sounds like you're able to tailor it to each individual and people are going to be turning up in different stages also of their, their addiction, I guess.

Speaker 2: 13:04

Yeah, exactly, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1: 13:07

What are you seeing in terms of trends or patterns in people that are showing up needing your care, and I'm just sort of thinking about societal pressures or the nature of their addiction, or even ages and genders?

Speaker 2: 13:30

So I just saw some statistics from the Banyons the other day. So this year we've seen a 684% increase in inquiries for chronic stress and burnout. My thesis there, because the Banyons works with a lot of professionals and managers leaders and I suspect that during COVID everyone was kind of just focused on getting themselves, their company, their business through looking after their staff, homeschooling, and almost didn't give them self permission to think about how they felt, because they just had to keep going and they get that and then, in the same way that sometimes when you go on holidays, that's when you get sick, when COVID started to become not a crisis, suddenly people realized actually I've got this stress that has been in my body for two years. I have been drinking more to try and manage that. You know, whatever it's starting to show itself. So you know we're seeing people.

Speaker 2: 14:35

Also, you know, unfortunately there's people who had been in recovery and then during lockdown. You know alcohol can get delivered to their house. That's right. Immediately they buy themselves their stress. So they might have found themselves in a relapse situation. Look, relapse can be a part of the recovery journey. That's right. We just really encourage people, just make the relapse really short and the period in between relapses as long as possible. So you know, we're also seeing actually we're seeing a lot more young people with things like eating disorders and really serious mental health concerns, huge increases in that. But it's right across the age demographic. You know. It's about 50% male, 50% female in our treatment centers and it's all ages.

Speaker 1: 15:28

And I imagine alcohol is a large proportion of people that come yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Absolutely so. Alcohol at the Banyan's a lot of alcohol and cocaine that happen together.

Speaker 1: 15:41

Yes.

Speaker 2: 15:42

And also drug medication.

Speaker 1: 15:46

Gosh, do you have any thoughts, just in terms of you know where Australia sits compared to, I guess, other sorts of countries in the stats For people needing this sort of care and treatment are we? Are we sort of going head to head?

Speaker 2: 16:05

with others. Look, that's a great question and I'll be really honest and say I'm not 100% sure about international comparative like that with detail, but I know we're really high but really concerningly, there's an increase of alcohol related deaths happening. You know we're trending the wrong way in Australia over the last 10 years it's not reducing, it's increasing, it's increasing in women and we really are not grappling with this as a country in terms of all the different things that contribute to this. You know I talked before about the. You know you can get alcohol delivered in 30 minutes. It was considered alcohol and bottle shops were considered an essential service during COVID.

Speaker 2: 16:50

I mean, it's just outrageous. People couldn't send their kids to school to get an education, but you could get endless alcohol delivered. So you know we really haven't grappled with this as a nation sort of in terms of our regulatory, but also you know, we know as a community alcohol is. We live in an alcohol-soaked community and we do business in alcohol-soaked networking.

Speaker 1: 17:16

Yeah, it's connected with absolutely everything we do, isn't it? It absolutely is. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the increase in risky drinking of women. That definitely went up a lot during COVID. Absolutely, and it's certainly showing up in a lot of the clients that I see as well.

Speaker 2: 17:39

So do you see? Can I just ask you a question? Because one of the things we've seen is that people who so sometimes the work from home situation is actually exacerbating this, because, you know, I'm thinking about someone who they worked from home, they would open their first bottle of wine when she opened her laptop at 9 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, I can see it when you're on a Zoom call it might look like coffee and she was drinking several bottles of wine a day.

Speaker 1: 18:09

Yeah, and so.

Speaker 2: 18:10

I'm curious as to whether or not you're hearing anything about that.

Speaker 1: 18:14

Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of hidden and allowed drinking that is occurring by women, yes, and oh, is it connected with working from home? Maybe, but it's certainly alcohol that is consumed alone, even after going out to a lunch or after a function. So they come home and they're sort of that self soothing or reward that's happening with a home alone and certainly hidden drinking.

Speaker 1: 18:42

So lots of wine bottles hidden in the pantry or glasses hidden around the house, speaking extra wine behind their partner's backs and certainly hiding the bottles in the bins afterwards. So a lot of shame and blame.

Speaker 2: 18:59

And.

Speaker 1: 18:59

I think what happens in it's snowballing into the, into drinking just to try and feel normal. So I think certainly what that's what a nine o'clock drinker would be doing is just to in the morning to drink, to try and feel normal, to get through the meeting throughout the day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, that's so frightening and I can relate to lots of those elements as well. It can just get away from you and yeah, absolutely. You really don't know where to turn or where to look.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:33

But I think having these podcasts and these conversations absolutely yeah, being able to search and find all the useful information I know on your websites as well is is great. So you mentioned before, ruth, that at Banyan's there is there are several options there for people, so yes, because I know that it is.

Speaker 1: 19:52

it is almost a privilege for people to be able to take the time and to pay the money that it often takes to go to these, these places which so many of us need but can't do. But there are different sorts of options out there. Are there, ruth?

Speaker 2: 20:09

Yeah, yep. So when I started the Banyan's, I was really passionate about reducing barriers to accessing care. Yes, and so you know, the one on one therapy model is particularly for people who wouldn't go and get treatment if they had to engage in a group therapy program. But I came across another barrier to accessing care when I was talking to someone on the phone.

Speaker 2: 20:31

She'd rung up, she was early 40s, two young children. Her and her husband were both working professionals. And she said to me she's like I'm drinking two bottles of wine when I get home from work at night. No one at work would know. I'm really good at hiding it, yeah. But she's like this can't keep going. And so I talked to her about the residential treatment options and she came back to me the next day she's like I just can't make that work with my schedule. And she's like, where is there for someone like me? And she tried a few different things in the public health system and it just didn't fit her and it was a real barrier for her.

Speaker 2: 21:07

And at the time I said look, I'm really sorry, I actually don't have anywhere to point you for something like what you're looking for, but I saved the email onto my desktop and I said one day we're going to have something for people like her. And so, about two years ago now, we opened our intensive day program in Bowen Hills and it's one day a week for eight weeks. You still do all one on one therapy. It's not group therapy. You see a psychiatrist, psychologist, exercise physiologist, clinical nutritionist, you do yoga, you do mindfulness, we feed you beautiful food and it's incredible, and I actually emailed her, but it was a few years after. I just wanted you to know that your feedback made a difference, because the very first person to sign up for that program two years ago was a woman just like her. And so, yeah, it's been wonderful to see people being out of access care who maybe wouldn't have been able to previously.

Speaker 1: 22:11

Fantastic. So it's one day out of their lives a week. Each week or eight weeks, yeah, and actually isn't it brilliant yeah. Because it's not just an hour a week, it's actually a full day, which is manageable, yeah, and it's a lot of intense work.

Speaker 2: 22:33

Yes, yeah, and you know you can see psychiatrists as soon as you start your program, which sometimes can take 6-12 months. Yeah, so we actually had someone come along and his boss knew what was going on for him. He was drinking way too much, couldn't take the time out because of his professional situation to do residential, but his boss said to him why don't you go and do this program? Everyone else in the workplace, as far as they're aware, it's your work from home day. I know that you're getting support, but you're really important to the company and I want to support you to do this Fantastic. And so, again, if we can just reduce barriers, we can support people, we can help them get the care that they need in the way that they want. Then you know I'm a happy woman.

Speaker 1: 23:18

I love it because it really takes can take a lot to change habits, to have a mindset shift and to find other ways of self-care. And that's probably what I think is the trap that many women fall into and men that drinking is their only form of unwinding.

Speaker 1: 23:41

At the end of the day, yes, and then the tolerance builds up and you need more and more and more. And you're copying what your parents did. You're copying decades of habits. So to have a full circuit breaker like that is fantastic. Yes, ruth, at the end of a program, in what sort of state are you wanting to sort of send people back out and integrate into their everyday lives, so that they're not kind of picking up all of those bad habits again?

Speaker 2: 24:14

Yes, so look, one of the things with our residential programs is that there's continuing aftercare when people leave the residence, and I think that's important is to help people recalibrate and check back in. So we do. It's called different things at the different treatment centres, but for instance, at the Banyons it's a return to life plan. They're working with their psychologists to go through and say OK. So you know, these are some of the things I'm going to start doing. These are some of the things I'm going to stop doing. It's some of the conversations I might need to have, but they can often start before. Like, well, someone's still in residential treatment. You know, I remember one time our amazing yoga therapist. She helped someone from Melbourne find a kind of yoga that she really wanted to do near where she lived so that she could go and embed back Into her life, because that was something that was really helping her. So you're wanting to give people some tools. You're wanting to give people, I guess, understanding of themselves and strategies for what to do in that situation.

Speaker 1: 25:23

Yes, so it's not just a hold, you know, rip the bandaid off and suddenly fixed. Exactly, You've just also reminded me that at Byron there was a integral part of the program was this day where you brought in your significant people from your lives into the program.

Speaker 2: 25:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:49

I've cost opted out of this because I was just so full of shame and so uptight and just had made it a very sort of clear decision in my mind that I was just going to be fine and I was going to be able to go out and start to moderate again and just be completely fine. And of course, if you, if you think like I do, then you can kind of hide everything from your family and just you know it doesn't set you up for our success, as much as it could be if you bring everybody in.

Speaker 1: 26:22

But, what's the thinking behind that of bringing your partners Sometimes it's your kids even who have witnessed a lot of what you had been doing previously? Yeah, yeah. How much is it a part of all your programs and and what's the underlying reason there for doing that?

Speaker 2: 26:41

Yeah, there's different levels of family connection in all the different programs and they work differently. Sometimes, for instance, the therapist can work with you to write a letter to your parents, your significant other kids. Sometimes it can get sent while you're actually in treatment. They can reply to the psychologist. You know you can process that together. You know we often, you know there's that, that phrase, that addiction is the disease of isolation.

Speaker 2: 27:11

And so connections actually really important and breaking the shame is really important. So you know, we always say to family members as well you need to go and get your own support, because it can be difficult sometimes when you've watched a loved one journey through addiction and you know, look, we all have our own stuff. I think everyone should see a psychologist on some kind of regular basis, even if it's only every six months, you know, because life is hard and we are broken people.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Yeah yeah, life is lifey, life is very lifey. I love that. I'm going to take that one and use it, but I'll always give you the credit. So I think you know, helping. Also, addiction creates or exists as part of systems, so relationship systems, behavior systems. So if we can help recalibrate those systems, you actually help everyone get healthier.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Yeah, yeah, and it also helps to make some changes in your home life which may have been a contributing factor to you, yes, leaning into this problematic behavior in the first place. But that gosh, that is hard. That is really hard because there the I think we mentioned some of the barriers, which time and finance, but it is also shame. So I think a large part of, well, a large part of the discussion of many of the residents in the rehab that I was at was well, how are we going to go back into our communities and I was from a very tight knit low North Shore community and basically we'll live with that stigma of the woman that went off to rehab for four weeks.

Speaker 1: 29:06

It's really hard to get over, that, isn't it? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 29:09

It is In your own mind, in your own mind.

Speaker 2: 29:12

Yes, yeah, yeah. So I'm really passionate about normalizing the conversation in Australia. So we do workplace education. I go and speak at school sometimes and you talk about well-being, but you sometimes weave things like addiction and coping behaviors into that. And I think, the more that we can just normalize addiction and mental health, they're just health conditions that people need treatment for, and in the same way, if someone breaks their leg, they're going to get treatment for that and we're not like, oh, that's that person who had to go and get treatment for their broken leg. It's just a health condition like anything else. It's actually an entirely logical response to some kind of pain, and so the more that we can normalize that, I think, the more it empowers people to get help but then to go back and live an empowered life.

Speaker 1: 30:05

Yeah, I would agree entirely and from my own experience it was largely in my own mind the shame and the anxiety. And because once you are back, people care and people want to help and they want to support and then they start talking about their own issues and how can I help Exactly?

Speaker 1: 30:24

I love that you're out there talking to school. So, because it is something that can really, you can make some significant changes in the way that our population supports and deals with these issues. So not only are you part of these amazing leading treatment centers, but you're out doing education and probably work in changing policy, I imagine.

Speaker 2: 30:48

Yeah, working on that one at the moment. So that's probably going to be a longer term project. But you know, absolutely I do think there needs to be some kind of regulation or accreditation for private treatment centers. I'd love to see private health rebates to be paid to community based treatment centers. You know it's my pipe dream, but one day I'll make it happen. Yeah Well, I'll try to make it happen anyway. So, yeah, lots of really workplace education. So soon we'll be launching some corporate health connect programs where we can do on-demand webinars for companies to equip their workplaces. The more that we can talk about it, the more that we encourage people to get help early, because the quicker people get help I know I'm preaching to the choir here the quicker people get help, the less the intensity of treatment needs to be.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Absolutely yes, you need to know the red flags and when to know well, when to know to get help, but also what that slippery slope looks like if you let it go another month, because suddenly you can be one of those people popping the wine open ridiculously early. So I really love the work that you just mentioned that you're doing, particularly workplaces, because I think there is well the workplace is a large source of the stress involved.

Speaker 1: 32:25

It's also a large source of the providing of alcohol in the socialization. So it sort of provides the stress that leads to the alcohol that leads to that cycle. So what would you like corporations to take?

Speaker 2: 32:44

on board to try and support their professionals. For a start.

Speaker 1: 32:48

In the perfect world.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Yeah, in the perfect world In business networking, that we have some alcohol free options for people that aren't soft drink or just water. Yes, it's amazing. So, but an alcohol free options? You know Australian businesses that are doing great job at sparkling non like, honestly, it's just so. We're doing some private business leaders dinners around the country over the next little while and I'm working with the restaurants to say, well, we need some alcohol free options, please. It aren't just soft drink, fantastic. Lots and lots of sugar is bad. So, and it's amazing how hard sometimes that is to get. So I ended up as that Well, here's a supplier who'd be really great. I'm happy to pay if you order some of those bottles. So, wow, yeah, just keep waving the flag.

Speaker 2: 33:47

But you know, also certainly early next year will be launching the corporate health connect, because I can't be in every workplace in Australia but an on demand webinar could be. So it's a way to again just encourage that conversation and give people tips and tools and strategies and make it a part. So you know we're talking about tips to manage stress. You know, jenny from buyer and private is talking about burnout and the imposter syndrome. So if we can just really get great things in there. It gives people the information and platform they need to be able to make positive changes.

Speaker 1: 34:25

I think there is a slow shift out there. I think it's yeah, it's trickling down.

Speaker 2: 34:32

I've.

Speaker 1: 34:32

I've been. I've done talks almost for law firms this year about gray area drinking and how to cut back, and the bar association I did a talk at as well about stress, the connection between stress and alcohol, and that vision cycle. So the more the merrier if we take it. I'd love to see just more alcohol free, supported months throughout the year. Yes, yeah and corporate culture as well.

Speaker 2: 35:05

Yes, yeah, exactly. Wouldn't that be amazing.

Speaker 1: 35:08

Oh, it'd be so good. Well, it doesn't just have to be dry July and soap rock.

Speaker 2: 35:12

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:13

It's during those periods as well where it's it's a very much a firm, wide, yeah, top down focused, almost daily, daily checking, where you kind of linking it up with health, gains, mental clarity, productivity, the whole lot.

Speaker 2: 35:31

Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1: 35:33

Yeah, oh, I love it. Oh look, Ruth, I just think all the work that you are doing across the board education in workplaces, but also providing these amazing residential facilities for people that really just need to get away and to provide it in a way that doesn't feel like you are really missing out or it's a shameful experience or it's like a jail term, it's actually a wellness-related retreat yeah absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:10

It's that wellbeing framework that recovery happens in. So it's not just a medical framework, it's not just a psychological framework. We talk about all the aspects of wellbeing. One of the things we say with SADA is we're probably actually Australia's only full service organisation because we do the education, the day programmes and some high performance resets right through to inpatient residential treatment centres. So we get to see what works and we can flow that back down to the education. So in some ways I'm kind of hoping that we do ourselves out of business because we educated the entire nation as to how to be proactive about our health.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1: 37:07

Gosh, if you are talking, say, to a very stressed and burnt out man or woman who might be listening, who is drinking way too much alcohol, and they know it and might have tried a lot of podcasts, they've read books, they've quickly tried moderation, they might have seen a counsellor here and there, but they're just not being able to keep this problematic behaviour. What would you say they should consider doing?

Speaker 2: 37:46

I'd say just start with the conversation. So the first thing is a conversation with someone, whether it's a friend or whether you call a banyan or you call Byron or you call Palladium, because whoever you call will make sure that if we're not right we'll refer you to someone else and we'll help you navigate the options. But just start with the conversation, because until you have that conversation you can't get to that point of health and wellbeing, and I don't think I've ever actually met anyone who's regretted making positive health choices. It might be hard, but the payoff is huge and the sooner that you do it, the less the impact of treatment can be.

Speaker 1: 38:28

Yeah, that is absolutely fabulous, and I love that because it is the conversation that you just need to have with somebody to feel like you're not alone. You're not the only person in the world that might be drinking too much alcohol, and often it is the no one actually talks about it. There is such great fear around putting your hand up to say this is what I'm doing.

Speaker 2: 38:51

How do I stop? Yeah, exactly. So I'd probably also say to that person a lot of other people are in the same boat as you, so don't feel like you're alone.

Speaker 1: 39:04

Yeah, that is fabulous Ruth. Where would be the best place for listeners to be able to learn more about the services that your treatment centres provide?

Speaker 2: 39:14

Yeah, so look, there's SanaHealthGroupcom. That'll feed you through to all of the different programs. If they're on LinkedIn, jump on and add me and just send me a direct message. If the thought of actually contacting a treatment centre is too scary, I'm really, really happy to have a chat with anyone and help them navigate the options. I'm on Instagram as well. Like in DM me on Instagram. I just I'm really passionate about reducing barriers and if the thought of contacting an organisation is scary, just contact Ruth.

Speaker 1: 39:46

Yeah, I love that. Thank you once again, Ruth.

Speaker 2: 39:51

My pleasure, thank you.