Sick of pub “meetings”? Frustrated that networking involves anxiety around drinking? Janet Hadley's Alcohol Safe Workplace Accreditation Program is the Answer!

Are you sick of 'meetings' at the pub? Do you feel pressured to drink when networking or feel anxious before 'Happy Hour' and dread the inevitable hangover? Do you wish being part of your work's 'inner sanctum' didn't necessitate downing bucketloads of alcohol? Surely, there is another way for the workplace to be safer, more inclusive and healthier!

Today we are joined by the remarkable (and very funny!) Janet Hadley, Director of Choose Sunrise, and founder of the innovative Alcohol Safe Workplace accreditation program.  Janet opens up about her personal struggles with alcohol and now aims to foster supportive and uplifting workplace environments where employees can truly succeed.

Alcohol policies in the workplace - why are they important? Why do we need to talk about them? This episode is dedicated to helping you understand the profound implications of these policies, and how they can contribute to psychological safety at work.

The creation of an inclusive workspace not only boosts employee engagement but also promotes a diverse workforce. However, changing the drinking culture is no easy task, especially when decision-makers themselves might be drinkers and cannot contemplate networking without it. Our younger employees are bucking this trend and do not want their workplace to be enmeshed with alcohol, hangovers and the way alcohol-laden socialising eats into their personal time. This is exactly why we must question it.

This episode is a must for those looking to comprehend the impacts of alcohol in the workplace, and create a healthier drinking culture. So, grab your headphones and join us!

JANET HADLEY

Choose Sunrise: https://choosesunrise.co.uk/

Alcohol Safe Workplace page: https://alcoholsafeworkplace.co.uk/asw

101 Days to Sober Page: https://choosesunrise.co.uk/client

The Sober Business Network https://soberbusinessnetwork.co.uk/home

MEG & BELLA

Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub

Isabella Ferguson: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Instagram: @alcoholandstresswithisabella
Instagram: @kidsandalcohol

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:02

Today on the podcast, I'd like to welcome Janet Hadley, Director of Choose Sunrise, which focuses on creating alcohol-safe workplaces that promote workplace physical and psychological safety. In fact, Janet has pioneered an alcohol-safe workplace accreditation program designed to create a positive workplace culture that supports employees to thrive. Welcome to the podcast, Janet.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Oh, thank you so much. I love the word pioneer there.

Speaker 1: 1:32

I know it's a good word to throw in. So true, I've watched from afar all the work that you've been doing to promote alcohol safety in the workplace and I am just so thrilled to have you on the podcast. Can we start just by talking a little about your own relationship with alcohol? That might be a good place to kick off.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Yeah, why not? So my relationship with alcohol is very much a love affair that has now ended.

Speaker 1: 2:02

I would suggest in a nutshell, I expect my tea out.

Speaker 2: 2:09

It's over between me and alcohol. Well, my goodness me, I was in love. People say that, oh, no one likes alcohol when you first try it. I did. I swear I did.

Speaker 2: 2:24

I genuinely think I must have been given alcohol as a very young child because I loved alcohol For the minute. I tried it and I couldn't get enough of it. And I was quite a shy, spody little kid who got called a swat at school and didn't have all that many friends. And then I discovered alcohol and suddenly I could be cool and I rebelled in quite a big way when I was about 14. I was a bit of a tear away teen and I drank a lot of alcohol and smoked a lot of cigarettes and went out with all the wrong boys and all that stuff. So I was a bloody nightmare. To be honest, if my children did a tenth of what I did, I would string them up. So yeah, it's not good, it's not. You know, I learned a lot but looking back on it wasn't great really.

Speaker 2: 3:15

And then I kind of throughout my teenage years it was the 90s and as I sort of went into the workplace late, late 90s, early 90s, things were quite wild actually, like socially. Back then I look at, like, how things have changed. You know, my kids are 18 and they couldn't buy alcohol without ID until they turned 18, whereas we could buy it freely, and so I don't know. Things were just a bit different and there was no social media, so no one worried about the photograph being on Instagram the next day or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 3:55

We used to party quite hard in the 90s and when I got my first job, some of my friends said to me well, you might need to like pair back your drinking a bit for the office. And I, yeah, like you know, because you're quite crazy with your drinking. So I mean, it was a problem back then, but I didn't see it as a problem. I thought it was cool. But when I got into that first job they were worse than me. It was like this mad work hard, play hard culture where everyone went out on Fridays at four o'clock and didn't get into four o'clock in the morning like 12 hours of drinking and shots with the sales director and free drinks for everyone, and eating is cheating.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Oh yeah, all that, wow, yeah. And so I was. I loved it, I thought this is great, but I mean, it certainly wasn't inclusive and when I look back on it, there was no way anyone was getting promoted if they weren't out in that kind of in crowd of people. Yes, all the people who went out drinking were the ones who got the senior jobs in the end. Yeah, which is interesting. And then I had my children, I had triplets, and so I kind of my party day screech to a halt.

Speaker 2: 5:19

Oh yes, yeah, I was like I've got three babies and I didn't drink for a while. I didn't drink when I was pregnant. I didn't drink when they were really little because I didn't sleep and didn't really do anything except look after my lovely little babies. But I remember when they started sleeping through, my husband like appearing with this bottle of wine when X Factor was on and I was like, oh, that's a good idea, we could have some wine and watch TV together, and then that became like a Saturday night ritual, and then it became a Friday and Saturday night, and then it was Thursday, friday, saturday, and then all this mummy wine culture kind of was there to reinforce what I was doing and tell me that it was okay and it was normal and I became a proper mummy wine drinker, like so many people.

Speaker 2: 6:11

Yeah, and then it was. It wasn't really until I had some really bad news that I started questioning my drinking. So my husband was diagnosed with brain tumor and I was just utterly, utterly devastated. Obviously, and it was a really. I mean, he's still alive but to be honest, he's he's on borrowed time. That's a bit of a mean thing to say, but you know he's doing great. He's five years since he was diagnosed. We didn't expect him to live five years and we don't really know what to expect next, to be honest. But when he was in hospital he had two operations and he had these radiotherapy and he had to learn to walk again after one of the operations.

Speaker 2: 6:58

And it was while he was in hospital, learning to walk again, that my drinking got really bad and I was just I've. I just had this sense that my relationship with the alcohol was really changing and that, instead of me choosing to drink it, I was feeling like a compulsion to drink it and I was drinking more than I was happy with and I kept waking up and saying I wasn't going to drink again that night and then drinking again that night and it just became very dark and my kind of rock bottom moment, if there is one is when one of my daughters um, I was meant to have done something with her the night before and I didn't do it. I drank wine instead. In the morning she said to me I wish that you would be a better role model.

Speaker 2: 7:48

Yeah it's hard. Yeah, I wish that I would be a better role model too. Actually, that's when I got help, basically. Yeah, I got an alcohol therapist like a counselor who specialised in alcohol use. I joined sobriety groups. I read Quitlet, I listened to podcasts like yours. I did all the things and what a good decision that was. Yeah, it's probably the single biggest. Like well, it's definitely the most transformative decision I've ever made and it's do you know what? I would go as far as to say it's the best decision I've ever made.

Speaker 1: 8:26

You know, when you feel how dark it has been, the relief is then that even more greater when you were able to stop, yeah Gosh. So how many years for you has it been without alcohol?

Speaker 2: 8:40

Well, my sobriety date is the 26th of June 2020. So three and a half, no, three and a bit. Yeah, three and a third, three and a quarter.

Speaker 1: 8:50

There you go. We're quite similar with our dates where I literally stepped well was around that COVID period at the time. So quite similar, yeah, and I bet your daughter is immensely proud.

Speaker 2: 9:05

Yeah, yeah, do you get any good?

Speaker 1: 9:07

feedback. Any good feedback?

Speaker 2: 9:09

Oh yeah yeah, I have actually. Yeah, I have complete feedback. I've been told that I'm less sensitive to criticism and that I'm less embarrassing although I'm still very embarrassing, just not quite as embarrassing.

Speaker 1: 9:31

Oh God, I love it. I know that's a compliment. Take a weekend with your kids, don't you?

Speaker 2: 9:37

Yeah, I know that I'm calmer, I know I have more patience, I know that I'm more present as well, and I'm just happier. So you know, that's just what. That's what everyone wants from a parent, really, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 9:54

Yeah, it's what we all want from life Amazing. And you're certainly incredibly productive, and particularly in the alcohol-free space, and for me, I know there's a connection there between being alcohol-free and getting lots done. But you've really created this amazing program where you go into workplaces and establish safe, inclusive, healthier drinking cultures. Would you mind telling us a bit about this program, what it does, what led you to do it and what you're doing in this space?

Speaker 2: 10:32

Yeah. So what led me to do it is that when I got sober because you know, when you're a big drinker, like I was, everyone knows you as a big drinker. It's kind of part of your identity and there's no way I could have not told people at work because I was the person buying the shots at four in the morning, so everyone was definitely going to notice that I wasn't drinking. So I told everyone and I found that I found that it was easier to actually tell people the truth about why I wasn't drinking anymore, because it would stop them badgering me to drink. So I'd say, you know, like it was becoming problematic, it was affecting my mental and physical health and actually I think it might have killed me in the end. So please don't, please don't ask me to drink. Because actually people were like we will still drink at Christmas, won't you? And things like that, and I was like no, really, like I actually mean it, like I'm not drinking.

Speaker 2: 11:30

And then people change. They suddenly become quite supportive and actually go bloody hell Right, sorry, didn't mean to, didn't mean to derail you and kind of look, how can I help you? And it's very different, and because I'm in quite a senior role within the organization that I worked in at the time and my I had quite a big platform to talk so I got involved in, like the workplace wellbeing program and asked if I could do some talks about alcohol, and then I ended up creating a so be curious society and doing like a big peer support network across the organization, which has been the most rewarding thing ever. Yeah, like really have loved doing that. And also some things around policy events. Making sure events have got, you know, good, respectful options is what I call it, not warm orange juice.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Did people take up the so be curious network? Did you get some people putting their hands up?

Speaker 2: 12:32

Honestly, everybody told me this is never going to work.

Speaker 2: 12:35

Everyone was like no one will come to that, no one wants to talk about this at work, and so I set it up in a physical room and put it was a room for 10. So I set up the event with a maximum number of people there's 10. And then someone phoned me and said your event is showing us full and I wanted to join it, and so I went. I was like I must have said it wrong. Hold on. I went back in. I was like no 10 people have signed up, so I moved it to virtual and I set it to 999 as many as possible, and 78 people came to the first event.

Speaker 1: 13:06

That is absolutely amazing. I think that's probably did a testament to you and I bet you made it seem fun and inclusive and rewarding. I can imagine just by knowing you briefly. But what if one achievement?

Speaker 2: 13:24

I just said that. I just said that. I just said something along the lines of when I was drinking, when I was worried about my own drinking, I felt as though I was the only person in the world who felt this way. But since I've got sober, I've realised that there's hundreds of people everywhere who feel the same way. Whether you are a drinker or you're sober, or maybe you're sober curious, or maybe you know someone who has an issue with drinking, this group's for you. Come along, listen, find out more. And, yeah, lots of people did so. Incredible, yeah, and I've just recorded some testimonials with some people from that very first group actually, who are now you know ex number of months or years sober, and they're just amazing. I'm so proud.

Speaker 1: 14:13

Just amazing Wow.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Yeah. Yeah, there's, one of them where the guy says you saved my life and it's like so emotional, I feel so emotional yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:24

God just takes one person with that courage to say let's not let's talk about it.

Speaker 2: 14:31

Exactly so. Having done all of that, I then started getting well. I started putting myself out there, for I trained as a sober coach. I had some clients on a one to one basis. I realized there was an opportunity to help more people through the workplace and started getting invited to go into workplaces and do well being talks and things like that. And then eventually what I did was I kind of collected together all the things that I thought employers needed to do. I was like it's not just a talk, it's not just a group, it's not, it's not just one thing. You need to do all these things and then it will be like a truly alcohol safe workplace, which is what I called it.

Speaker 2: 15:17

So it's a set of 12 standards that an employer needs to meet in order to get the accreditation. They have been independently what's the word? Verified. They've been kind of signed off by a panel of experts who are from all different disciplines. So we've got health and safety expert. I've got an employment law expert. I've got a HR specialist. I've got an alcohol free drinks specialist. I've got like an alcohol free events organizer specialist. I've got someone who works for Alcohol Change UK and is an associate for them oh, I can't even think who else is, but there's just a really good group of people and whenever an employer submits evidence that they've met the criteria, it's the panel who sign it off, not me. So it's completely independent of me and that keeps it all really like a high level of integrity to the accreditation and the workplace then gets recognised or accredited publicly for being an alcohol safe workplace.

Speaker 2: 16:25

Exactly that. Yes, exactly that. So we're looking at the badge carry and yeah, I mean we're really early days, but we're looking at how we can potentially have, like you know, like an annual event for all of the accredited workplaces and make it a little bit more like of a community of people who have or either in the process of getting accredited or who are already accredited, like connecting people from those workplaces together to share tips and information of how they've done it.

Speaker 1: 16:56

It's fabulous. It's such a clever step because it actually makes it a positive thing, a corporate responsibility that they can promote, that they've got to the world as something that's attractive. Such a clever concept, thank you. What are the benefits to companies that are able to promote and enhance this psychological safety by way of alcohol in the workplace? What do they get back from their employees?

Speaker 2: 17:26

Okay, so the first thing that I think employers notice is that they've got a higher level of psychological safety, because when people open up and speak and talk to each other about their deeply personal experiences, it creates a safe space where people can start to bring like their whole selves to work, and that is priceless. That is something that I think is quite difficult to measure, but employers generally are finding that their engagement scores are higher as a result of having done all of this work. You've then got reduced risks. So you've got a reduced risk of workplace accidents, so 40% of all workplace accidents are alcohol related. You've got a reduced risk of grievances, because 50% of all sexual harassment grievances are related to alcohol, which is a bit crazy, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 18:26

You've got a huge benefit in terms of being able to attract and retain a much more diverse range of people. So we have 20% of people who don't drink, and then that's rising to 25% with Gen Z. So they're entering the workforce and they're looking at a lot of the young people. They are not into big boozy doos, and I think employers who fail to recognise this are really going to start to lose out on attracting the best of that talent pool. And let's face it, wouldn't you rather employ someone who was sober? I'm like 20 times more productive since I became a sober. It's just crazy not to employ sober people.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Yeah, it's a really good point because the baby boomers, gen Xs, at the helm of lots of these companies now, like my Generation Above, we were big solid drinkers meeting at pubs, all the rest of it, and you just think that everybody wants to do it.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Yeah they don't realise how exclusive they're being, and it's often for me, it's often someone who has a role as a diversity and inclusion manager, who's kind of the first point of contact for me in a large organisation. I thought it would be wellbeing or health and safety, but actually diversity and inclusion seems to be the angle that most employers are coming at it from, so creating super inclusive events, and I think maybe that's because they can see a little bit more directly. There's always the aftermath of the work party, and how many people have been dismissed this year after the works party? Yes, in any big corporation there's 100% you're going to get at least one or two dismissals after the work party. Yeah, it's just not great business, is it?

Speaker 1: 20:22

No, all the risk, yeah, the risks that they face with people with those bottomless bars and all the rest of it. I mean, I think so many of us, even though we may not have been fired, have woken up after a work conference and just thought, whoa what was I thinking?

Speaker 2: 20:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it kind of comes down to Well, reduced risk, increased psychological safety, being able to attract and retain a more diverse group of employees. But there's also benefits that you probably can't necessarily put a number on, but productivity and absence will definitely have a positive effect. So I've got a great quote from someone in the US who I was speaking to just the other day, who said like people who are in recovery are something like 80% more like loyal as employees than the average, Because you know, like if you've supported somebody back into work, if you, rather than just firing someone who's been, you know, drinking or whatever's happened, you've actually supported them, enabled them to find the right support. They've got sober, they've come back into that workplace. They're not going to leave you.

Speaker 1: 21:46

they're going to be the most loyal employee you've ever had, and productivity.

Speaker 2: 21:53

There's a really good piece of research from Aviva which goes into quite a lot of detail as to like how many hangovers people have at work, and it's you know, I think it was 15% of people have been at work under the influence of alcohol in the past six months. Oh wow, and you know so it's just yeah it's just, it's not just absenteeism, is it?

Speaker 1: 22:20

It's, it's her, this concept of presenteeism yeah. Yeah, so you want to be there and be focused and, yeah, productive.

Speaker 2: 22:30

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 22:31

Is it being taken up by workplaces? What are the hurdles, that you're saying all the obstacles in getting it in.

Speaker 2: 22:40

So there's so many. I mean the main obstacle is that a lot of the decision makers are drinkers and that it can feel probably quite confronting. So that, I think, is definitely the biggest obstacle. So when I've I've had a couple of like disappointments where I've thought that a really big organization is going to come on board with it and I've had people within the organization who are completely signed up to it, you know, really excited about it, can't wait to get started, and then it gets kicked out kind of at board level and they come back to me like really deflated because they really thought it was going to going to happen and they say that even though they know that it isn't anti alcohol. That's right, isn't about it, isn't about telling people what to do.

Speaker 1: 23:28

Prohibitionist.

Speaker 2: 23:29

No, not at all, but the board can't quite see it like that and they say things like we don't want to tell people what to do and it's like, well, we, we never were going to tell people what to do. But it's interesting that I think it's really interesting from like a human psychology point of view that, without reading the detail or like understanding it, that people who are drinkers at the top of these organizations are immediately having like a almost like a subconscious don't, you, don't, don't, don't, criticise my drinking.

Speaker 1: 24:04

It's like a right to drink. It's like it's written in the Constitution. Yeah, can't take this last thing away from me.

Speaker 2: 24:10

Yeah, yeah and also don't don't question my drinking, like it's too personal. Yeah, yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Because?

Speaker 1: 24:18

it's not that at all. It's really just creating a policy around inclusivity and safety, exactly, yeah, yeah, preaching to preaching to the person that created it.

Speaker 2: 24:30

So it's really I think it's a little bit ahead of its time. Sometimes, like, I, have got a couple of really big household names in the UK who I actually do think will get to the accreditation point, which is super exciting.

Speaker 1: 24:42

So, yeah, that's the way to go, isn't?

Speaker 2: 24:45

it.

Speaker 1: 24:46

Make it a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some people that are well known that are taking it up and they're able to show the rest of the world that it's not the end of life. Exactly yeah, as you know it.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Exactly. I know I think it's. There are some really progressive employers out there who are really on board and really excited about it and I can't wait to be able to come out and tell you who they are at some point and say, yes, we've got the accreditation. But yeah, it's a really long process. It's a long sales process and then it's quite a long process of cultural change within the organisations. But you know, it's just super rewarding and I get emails all the time from people in these organisations saying how happy they are that I'm there doing this work, because they say things like you know, nobody's ever mentioned this before, but I know it's undermining my health and wellbeing and I really want to do something about it. And I get emails from a lot of people who don't drink for faith reasons saying yes.

Speaker 2: 25:45

You're so glad you're here because every single event we do is in the pub and I don't feel comfortable and you know I'm really glad that you're picking up this topic. So, like the people in the organisations want it, there's plenty of support. It's just you get these like little niches of board members who drink, who just can't quite get past their own drinking and say no, too scary.

Speaker 1: 26:08

No no.

Speaker 1: 26:09

I've heard of so many stories, I can almost picture who these people are. Yes, and it's men and women, but I've, you know, a lot of my stories that I've heard clients that talk who are younger. They are of that younger generation. They talk about the drinks trolley still coming out in board meetings or on conferences around four o'clock and you're still getting those comments like, oh, I don't trust a person that doesn't drink, or you know, isn't that horrible? Or, you know, come on, join us. This is where the real conversations happen. This is where the you know the real inclusive, you know inclusive in the yeah, into the inner circle the inner sanctum and it's always got to be the Scotch.

Speaker 1: 26:55

There's just something about alcohol and marketing, the prestige of expensive wine and aged Scotch and it's really hard to undo. But it has to start somewhere, it's because it's all based on this farcical notion that alcohol somehow improves improves our life in productivity. It is ridiculous. Look what if you're a workplace out there and you want to start the process of changing the alcohol culture. What are some quick-ish, easier things that they could do to try and sort of just promote a healthier drinking culture within their space?

Speaker 2: 27:41

Well, I think probably the number one thing would be to have a look at your events. So we have on our website. If you go to alcoholsafeworkplacecouk, you can download our guide to running a sober, inclusive event. It's got like 50 different ideas of things you could do that are inclusive for everybody Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 28:04

And just decentralising alcohol from your next event and just take note of who comes to work compared to the usual crowd, like, do you get a different mix of people? Do you get different mix of ages, different mix of gender, different mix of race, religion? You will. You'll get different people coming to it and it's just much more inclusive. And talk to people, ask them, ask them.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Maybe this is a little bit of a funny one because it's obviously it's personal data and it's got to be anonymised and not shared. But I have got one client who did a survey to ask everyone do you drink alcohol or not? And would you? You didn't have to answer it. It was like prefer not to say is an option.

Speaker 2: 28:49

And for Christmas this year, so they always just sent everyone a bottle of champagne Would you prefer a non-alcoholic gift? And they had about 25% of people who didn't drink, which surprised them. It didn't surprise me, but it surprised them. But they still had like 50% of people who said they'd prefer a non-alcoholic gift. So even the drinkers didn't necessarily want a bottle of champagne, which is interesting. They were gobsmacked by this research and they've stopped sending out champagne, except you know, like they've basically got a policy now where they ask before they send alcohol, and it's a really small but subtle change. Like for me, having like, a bottle of wine in the house is a bit like having a loaded gun where, like I kind of would really rather it wasn't in my home.

Speaker 2: 29:40

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I'm going to drink it after three and a half years, but let's just, I don't know. And what about if you were only three months and not three years?

Speaker 1: 29:49

in and that would be really awful, like really horrible.

Speaker 2: 29:53

It'd be talking to you from the cupboard or the fridge and it's just not really fair to put people in that position and you don't know. You don't know what's going on in their lives. It's not appropriate to give people alcohol unless you know them well enough to know that that's what they'd want.

Speaker 1: 30:10

It's a big assumption to make, and particularly when you're looking at the stats and the harm that it causes the. I'm not not so sure about what your stats are like, but it's I'm sure it's travelling on the same lines as Australia, but our alcohol related deaths are increasing.

Speaker 2: 30:29

Oh yeah, they are. People are that's right yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:33

People. The younger generation is certainly more viable to say no to alcohol and be a non drinker, but the stats are arising. Particularly women, particularly women who are professionals in the workplace, who have reached their peak of productivity, they're leaving the workplace because of alcohol issues, so they're losing really good people.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Yeah, and I think some of it's disguised as menopause as well. So there's a lot of talk about women leaving the workplace when they hit menopause, and I do question whether that's hitting menopause and being a drinker is actually what the stat is, because I'm sure there's a sizable group. Yeah, non drinkers are going to be a lot more likely to breathe through the menopause than yeah, because that's out, catherine, your friend Catherine, who does who? We base their cat.

Speaker 2: 31:26

Yes, Catherine Elliot's really good article about this recently, about all the physiological reasons why women actually, you know. Sorry folks, but physiologically we are different to men and we can't process alcohol as efficiently as men can. And because of the changes to our bodies as we get older without going into loads of detail we process it more slowly and it's more difficult for us to process it. And guess what? You just feel like shit after drinking.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Yeah, yeah, and if you've got a history yeah, you feel like crap and if you've got a history of decades of drinking, that's your habit, it's really hard to untangle it. Yeah, particularly in that area.

Speaker 2: 32:07

I do a lot to that as well, because, sorry, I didn't mean to talk about it at all.

Speaker 2: 32:13

When I was talking about, like entering the workplace when I was a lass and it was like the late 90s, we were like the first generation of women who had equal rights as women from the get go, like we didn't have to fight for them, they were just there for us and it felt almost like we needed to show everyone that women could do everything that men could do, and that included for me, like downing pints and doing shots.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Drinking hard.

Speaker 2: 32:38

Yes, yeah, and there was a whole Ladeck culture in the 90s. Yes, I don't know if you have.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Australia. But it was like, oh for sure, and you know I recently interviewed and Dalcette Johnson, who wrote the I think one of the very first Quitlet books called Drink.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:56

Yeah, so fabulous. And I interviewed her 10 years on, so 10 years after that book was released, and she was very much talking about, yes, the fact that we got equal pay and with that became equal purchasing rights for alcohol, and that's when big alcohol turned their gaze on us and thought, oh, there's another half the market that we want to earn our money towards. And she very much talks about our call being the modern woman steroid that enables us to do the heavy lifting. So we're working harder, playing harder. But I was definitely of probably similar generation to you, janet I'm 48. Yeah, so the 90s, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:37

Yeah 90s and we worked hard, drank hard and I was a lawyer before I turned into a counsellor. So the drinking culture there is heavy. It's associated with everything you do and some of my recent work has been going into law firms and working with the Law Society. And the Barris Association about grey era drinking and trying to.

Speaker 2: 34:04

I have a lot of clients in the legal sector as well in the UK.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Yes.

Speaker 2: 34:08

I'm sure. Yeah, quite a few actually. Yeah, I think it's a sector where they are certainly starting to recognise that things need to change and, you know, some of it is because of the huge increase in focus on diversity and inclusion. I think yes.

Speaker 1: 34:28

Janet, I just want to say thank you for all the work that you're doing. I can say it becoming well. I would love for it to be brought out to Australia.

Speaker 2: 34:39

Yeah, well, I was talking to Catherine about this, and you're just trying to work out how to do it really, because there's different rules and you know different laws and the policies that have to be different and you know we need a little bit of adjusting, but I think it's totally possible.

Speaker 1: 34:54

I really do so, do I? We could start at the top. I'd love for our Parliament House Parliament House needs to rule out alcohol as a starter, as a bit of a blueprint for all of us to follow.

Speaker 2: 35:08

Well, as a UK taxpayer, I am subsidising our MPs to drink alcohol, which is fine, that's right, it's a good way of looking at it.

Speaker 1: 35:16

I know.

Speaker 2: 35:18

I'm like this is not what I want to spend my money on. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 35:24

Just as a sort of a parting note what else are you doing? I'm sure there's a lot more than simply this workplace. I know you've got a podcast. I know you've created Sober Network. Yes, what else are you doing out there?

Speaker 2: 35:37

Doing so many different things I need to calm down. But yeah, I run a really small but very friendly and very effective Sober sort of program for people who want to stop drinking, called 101 Days to Sober Sounds great yeah. So it's an online course with a WhatsApp community behind it. Fair, just Really, people who've kind of been there and done it done the course. It's like a one-off fee. It's not a monthly fee-paying thing. It's £101 plus fat, so it's £1 a day.

Speaker 1: 36:12

So good, I know.

Speaker 2: 36:14

So we love, I love doing that. I really love getting clients through that and getting them their 101 days, and I also run the Sober Business Network, which connects Sober entrepreneurs with each other, and I've just launched the Sober Business Network Directory, which is on. What URL is it on? It's called soberbusinessnetworkcouk. It's super new. Don't judge me on this website because it's like a minimum viable product. I'm so excited for it because that's a goodie. Yeah, it is. We were just chatting before we started recording, but I think you're going to join, which is exciting.

Speaker 1: 36:53

I'm going to join. I'd love to just to have a bit more of a network, more people that are connecting this sphere, that are doing the same thing, because you learn from each other, you support each other Exactly, and it's a growing movement and that helps all of us. Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: 37:10

So I think the sector needs to unite and have a bigger voice together. I think if we can collaborate as much as possible, we are more likely to be able to grow faster, and some really great things are already starting to happen in the group. So I've seen already some I mean even just like podcast guests and things like that. There's been some great matchups between podcast and guests, but also some of the alcohol-free drinks connecting with people who retail them or wholesale them, and there's even a couple of businesses who are getting together to look at potentially going into a long-term collaboration together, which is exciting. So I can't say too much about that.

Speaker 1: 37:52

But yeah, I love it from a commercial aspect, but also from a selfish aspect. I mean the more alcohol-free people out there socialising yes, exactly, makes my life easier.

Speaker 2: 38:02

Exactly, it's fantastic, yeah, and if we get enough people from America and Australia, we're going to look to replicate the kind of meetups that we have over in the UK. I love it, but I'll need some ambassadors, so I might put you on my ear.

Speaker 1: 38:17

I'll be there for sure. I love it. I'm going to try and help me. Fantastic, janet, look, I'm going to put a lot of these things in the show notes links to your 101 days sober sober business network. Where can listeners go to learn more about you and your services? And if you're a workplace out there Australian workplace and you want to investigate, trying to see if you can be a trailblazer in this promotion of inclusive and healthy drinking culture, where can they go?

Speaker 2: 39:00

So you can find me on LinkedIn, janet Hadley. There's not many of us, so that's a good place to start and then choose Sunrise. Now I do wish sometimes I put a different business name. It's so hard to say this ChooseSunrisecouk. It really fast, don't?

Speaker 1: 39:17

say it after a few. You can't say it after a few videos. You can't say it yeah. Well, that's the test.

Speaker 2: 39:23

It's my test that I've not been drinking, so ch-w-o-s-e sunrise, choosesunrisecouk, and there's a landing page which basically connects you to all the different arms of my business, so that's the best place to go.

Speaker 1: 39:38

All right, all of that I will plonk in the show notes. Such a wonderful chat, a good giggle, which is always fun. Thank you so much for coming on, not drinking today. Oh, thank you for having me, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 39:53

Thank you.