Unearthing Joy in Sobriety: Michelle Cunniff's Tale of Transformation

In this episode, Michelle Cunniff, an alcohol mindset coach,  takes us on an intimate journey that traces her path from over-drinking to fully embracing a healthier lifestyle. Through candid conversations, we delve into her early forays into drinking during high school and college, and how this habit evolved and became a crutch during periods of loneliness and boredom. Michelle's story is a testament to the transformational power of choosing sobriety and breaking free from the cycle of over-drinking.

Quit drinking, and recover mornings, emotions, and life's simple pleasures - sounds like a tall order, right? Hear Michelle share her transformative journey of bidding farewell to alcohol and the incredible changes it gifted her. From facing her emotions head-on instead of numbing them to rediscovering her love for mornings, Michelle's experiences will inspire you. Sobriety, she underlines, opens up space to truly relish life's simple pleasures. 

As we wrap up our chat, we engage in a thought-provoking discussion about finding joy and passion in sobriety. Michelle shares her experience of rediscovering activities she once thought boring and dealing with the fear and judgment that may arise when one chooses not to drink. You'll be moved by the childlike wonder and freedom that accompanies an alcohol-free life. Hear Michelle talk about her work as a sobriety coach, guiding others on their path to freedom from alcohol, using her own experiences as a compass. Join us on this journey as we explore the reality, challenges, and joys of embracing an alcohol-free lifestyle.

Website: https://www.michellerenecoaching.com/
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/michellerenecoaching/

MEG & BELLA

Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub

Isabella Ferguson: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Instagram: @alcoholandstresswithisabella
Instagram: @kidsandalcohol

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:02

Hello and welcome to Not Drinking Today. Today on the podcast I have Michelle Cunniff, and Michelle is a fellow, this Naked Mind Coach who I studied with. It's so exciting to have Michelle here. Michelle is an alcohol mindset coach who empowers women who are over-drinking find freedom, peace and the ability to start living a healthier lifestyle. How wonderful is that? Welcome Michelle.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Thanks so much, Megan. It's so great to see you again too. What a journey, huh.

Speaker 1: 1:32

What a journey. Here we are, and it's very exciting to be here after our coaching study, which was so amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:41

So amazing, and to see people from the other side of the world like you and I are. It's so wonderful to know that we're not alone on this journey and others are sharing the same things, and it's been so great to get to know you you too.

Speaker 1: 2:03

So we start today by hearing a bit about your story, how you got to where you are now.

Speaker 2: 2:10

For sure. Well, it's a long one for sure, bring it on. Bring it on. Many decades of drinking, actually probably 43 plus years of drinking.

Speaker 2: 2:23

To be quite honest with you, megan, it all started in high school. Like a lot of us, around 14 years of age had my first taste of alcohol. I was at a cheerleading pre-game party and a lot of upperclassmen were there and just the peer pressure to have a beer and we had a couple beers and went to the game and it was a lot of fun, innocent enough, and that sort of that nice buzz you have and you're on the clouds and you're having fun with all your friends. And did I like the taste of that beer? And absolutely not. I thought it was disgusting. But what you do, you do what everyone else does and drink along and that's just sort of started my high school drinking days, and really in an environment where there was a lot of drinking going on on the weekends. So it was a lot of partying, a lot of my friends would drink and I tended to always overdrink, you know, just always trying to keep up with the boys. I had two older brothers, they had lots of friends, so I was always in that environment, trying to keep up with everyone, following everyone.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Then came college where I went to a business school and received a scholarship. But when I got there, between the party atmosphere and the academics which I needed to concentrate on, my academics, I was so afraid, like I knew in my heart of hearts, that I was going to go down the party route. So I literally left college after a week and a half because I was so afraid I would be just, I would have gone down that party environment. So I ended up transferring to a commuter school and work through college but continued to party because all my friends were away at school and I would just visit them at the colleges and get my party party socks on. And my husband, who I went to high school with, you know he was a drinker also. So we, you know we would drink and a lot of his friends were still local. So there was plenty of that going on.

Speaker 2: 4:43

But just your typical, you know, college environment and having fun, and I was always the one to overdrink, always had the hang over. Into my twenties it was, you know. The eighties it was nightclubs and dancing and drinking and partying and lots of traveling and having fun. You know it was all fun and we were doing fun stuff, but it always revolved around the alcohol. So everything is innocent enough and it seems appropriate enough, right, all the stuff we're supposed to be doing. And then I got into my thirties and, you know, I had the people were getting married and there were the big eighties, weddings and and then starting to have children, and that's kind of when it slowed down a little bit for me.

Speaker 2: 5:35

Obviously, when I was pregnant I didn't drink at all and it was probably the one and only time in my life that I actually had given up alcohol and didn't want it. Until, you know, right, when the babies were born, then I was right back at it, not really during the week. I was always a weekend drinker. So I was able to do a lot of that, which was great. But I do remember times just feeding one of the babies and having my glass of wine. Just, I was bored, I was lonely. It was just filling in that gap. There really weren't, you know, mummy groups when I was bringing up my kids, a little bit, but not a lot. So I was by myself having this glass of wine before my husband got home from work, just to fill in the time I was bored.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Then, on to my forties, my kids were, you know, in activities, going everywhere, totally busy, so there was almost no time really to really to over drink. But I do remember, you know, trying to negotiate morning carpooling so that I could take the night off, so I could have my beverages, especially on the weekends. So when the kids were in activities, I'll draw, I'll take the morning, I'll take the morning carpool so that I could have my drinks at night. So those were always pointing issues and if I did, we went to a party or a family event. It was always me who was hungover. You know I was always the one who hungover and, you know, overdrank on occasion it was innocent enough, but you could just kind of see this building and building.

Speaker 2: 7:25

And then I get into my fifties and my kids were becoming adults. They didn't need me so much anymore. I was becoming like I was losing this identity of motherhood. I wasn't needed anymore. I felt so lonely, I was bored. My drinking increased. I just filled in this downtime I had with more drinking. The weekends, which were Saturday and Sunday, were turning into Friday, saturday, sunday, and then it was Thursday, friday, saturday, sunday. So my weekends were just getting longer and longer.

Speaker 2: 8:06

I really that's really when the habitual cycle of wine drinking came in heavily for me. In that it was innocent enough, right, it was very two glasses here and there and occasionally overdoing it. But you know a lot of that going on. I knew I was overdrinking too much and I even, you know, purchased five ounce wine crafts because I was going to moderate my drinking, I was going to watch how much I was drinking, so I literally would measure out two five ounce glasses and a lot of the times I kept to that until I didn't. Then I would be back and opening up another bottle or finishing off the bottle that I had started.

Speaker 2: 8:58

I noticed, you know, my anxiety was increasing. I was becoming more tired. I didn't like who I saw in the mirror. Then my mom got sick with cancer, so I was dealing with a lot of pain then and that's when, you know, my drinking just skyrocketed. I just was numbing the pain of her sickness and we were taking care of her and I just even remember leaving her and crying and stopping at the packing on the way home to pick up the bottle of wine and just, really just numb out all that pain and grief and you know I would bring that back into the household.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Both my husband and I were drinking wine, kind of on a nightly basis. Now, you know it was on normal routines. The end of the work day click, you know, and my adult children were seeing this, they're witnessing this, and it really just was hitting me that, wow, now my adult children were bringing in their alcohol into the house. They were mimicking exactly what we were doing starting to drink on a nightly basis and it, it, even though I was watching this, it still didn't occur to me that you know, I I knew I was over drinking, but not enough, that the influence I was having on them was huge and it didn't really hit me till later. I knew something had to change. So I was really trying so hard to moderate and was really really moderating as best I could for a long time. I probably tried to moderate for seven plus years.

Speaker 2: 10:47

In 2019, I booked a trip to Costa Rica, a yoga retreat, just out of the blue, booked it on the internet, someone I didn't know, because I thought, oh, let me go away and I'm gonna think about you know how I can figure this whole problem out. And I went away and when I arrived, it was a yoga slash art retreat, and the woman said to write one word on the board of the reason you came here, why you booked this trip. And I wrote on the board me and me. I needed to find me. I kind of lost me and I was someone I didn't like looking at in the mirror anymore. So this yoga retreat, this was gonna be my turnaround. This was gonna be all my answers. Well, it was going great. It was a great yoga retreat.

Speaker 2: 11:40

Maybe day two in there I was the one who said to the host well, do they serve wine with dinner? Here we are having organic meals, you know, made right from the farm that we're on. And lo and behold, they were able to find some wine. So, and then I noticed other people were joining in and I went there to get away from that, to figure all that out, and I was in this idyllic place right In paradise, in the jungle, in the beautiful place, and I still couldn't get away from the alcohol. It just I could not cut that out of my life still, and so I was very ashamed of myself for that, because that was the whole reason I personally was going and that didn't happen. So I came back, went through, you know, the end of 2019 and then we're into 2020.

Speaker 2: 12:50

And I did sign up for a 30 day break through another program and went alcohol free for six months. I was doing great, feeling great, but then very stressful situation came up and my youngest was having a baby, and it was unplanned, and I had a baby shower during COVID and, lo and behold, there's a bottle of wine there. I just opened it up and went right back to where you know that cycle of every night drinking, and I was talking to my oldest daughter and just said you know, I don't get it. I don't understand why this substance in this class has such a hold on me. And she's like oh, mom, I saw this book on TikTok. Somebody mentioned that it really helped them. It's called this Naked Mind and I said I don't care, I'll just order it. I just ordered it on Amazon. It came and it was December of, I think, 2020 now and I was reading it and drinking my wine and reading the book and I'm like this all makes so much sense. Oh, my gosh, somebody knows what I'm talking about. It just resonated so well.

Speaker 2: 13:58

So I knew in January that I was gonna sign up for an alcohol experiment and I did and I loved every piece of it. I couldn't get enough information. It was such a great experience that I ended up signing up for the year long path. I only signed up month to month at first because I thought, oh, I'm probably wasting my money, but it was the best year of my life. It totally changed everything for me. It was the best experience and I was able to be alcohol-free and I owe it all to that program and the book and colleagues like you and our wonderful support we have for each other and it's just been an incredible ride.

Speaker 2: 14:52

I, as you know the other side of alcohol has just been. It just opens up so many things and my life has totally changed. I've been able to help a couple of family members and I just feel so healthy and whole and authentic and peaceful and joyful and powered and present. I'm talking a lot right now, but I've actually become a great listener, which I realized I was never doing before. So I've become a better friend, a better sister, a better mother. I don't know if my husband would say a better wife, but you know.

Speaker 1: 15:38

I'm sure he's very, very proud, you know.

Speaker 2: 15:42

But just that, as you know that pure freedom that one should give up that alcohol right. So it's been great and now I'm able to share my story and work to help others try and get from where they are to where they want to be Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 16:04

Oh, thank you for sharing all of that, Michelle.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Yeah, that's kind of. You know, it's decades, I think a lot of people will relate.

Speaker 1: 16:14

I mean, there are so many things you said that I was like yep, yep, yep. You know, it's that sort of path of starting when you're younger, having kids, then having young kids that you want to drink. Then older kids, you're feeling lonely because they're your emptiness. You know, it's such a I relate to that so much and I my youngest is 14, but my two daughters are quite independent now they're older and it's like, oh yeah, all this time and I've split up with my husband and I'm like, oh, wow, this is what people talk about, this emptiness. You know it's a huge transition and you've come out of the juggling, the kids, where we all are like, oh, I need to drink after this day. To yeah, wow, what do I do now? Right, right, right.

Speaker 2: 17:07

You went from full steam ahead and you're so stressed and then I would use the alcohol for the stress and the craziness and sort of that me time, like leave me alone, you know. And then it was like oh, what do I do with myself now? I don't know what to do. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:29

And it continues. We can call it me time still, but it's a different need that we're sort of fulfilling well, filling with this alcohol. But basically we're just numbing out, aren't we?

Speaker 2: 17:39

I mean, yeah, yeah, in the end that's exactly what it is, and really not realizing that you know that's, you know I can look back now and see that, but I didn't realize that's exactly what I was doing and that's what we've learned on our journeys. Right, like, try and let some of that stuff you used to numb out deal with it.

Speaker 1: 18:05

Right, exactly and we learn about the you know thoughts and beliefs we have. Like everyone can understand that I drink to de-stress with my kids, or I drink because I'm lonely. But then, when you look deeper, it's like, well, yeah, I was stressed having kids, but let's look at how I can overcome that in a different way. And then it's like I'm lonely. It's like, well, you don't have to be lonely on your own, you know, we've discovered that. So yeah, we're, you're numbing out, but it's from the discomfort of not being enjoying what you're feeling, I guess a lot of the time. But when you do that, you get rid of the happy feelings too, right, so you're not out from everything don't you.

Speaker 2: 18:46

Yeah, you really do, and I know you know that's when you really know things are spiraling a little right, Because I wasn't hitting rock bottom, I didn't have these any horrendous stories, but there were just flags along the way that you knew if you continued this journey and I think just numbing out and not dealing with a lot of the feelings just really made it difficult. You just sort of kicking the can down the street right, Because eventually those problems still come up. They really do.

Speaker 1: 19:32

They come up with more anxiety, more stress on your body.

Speaker 2: 19:37

Oh my gosh, oh, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Someone said to me very recently. It was very interesting because I think when you're in the midst of it and say you're raising a young family and you're drinking for that escape, someone said to me I don't really have time to stop drinking because I'm so busy doing all that. And it's like the irony there is we all have time for the drinking and that takes up so much time. Whether we realise or not, it slows us down. We're avoiding things. For me, I've got this app that tells me how much time I've saved in the last 21 months and it's thousands and thousands of hours.

Speaker 1: 20:19

Oh my gosh. It's really interesting to look at because what you do at the beginning, you put in how many hours a day you were drinking and even if you say I drank from five to eight pm, three hours a day, it adds up to thousands of hours that I can now use in a different way. And I'm not saying I don't still sit in the lounge and watch some TV in that time, but it takes time to drink. It was interesting to hear someone say that because, coming out the other side, we can look back and go wow, I kind of felt that too at the time. I don't have time to do this, give up drinking thing. But how much time are we wasting drinking?

Speaker 2: 21:01

That's such an interesting.

Speaker 2: 21:03

I have not heard that that's so great, but really think of, oh my gosh, all the time I've gained. I just love it, and my new favourite time now is the mornings. I call them Michelle's magical mornings. I just love it. And it's amazing how much time in the numbing I don't know how many Game of Thrones or certain shows I watched that I don't really remember parts, honestly, because it was the numbing and just even get you know, just all that, and part of that was the things that I used to find fun and enjoyable were no longer. They would almost chores, be it, you know, running or a certain exercise class or going on a hike or these certain things that I used to love to do For an enjoyable. I was really all focused on. I would rather go home, crack up my wine and hit Netflix, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:21

So it's yeah, yeah, and you know what? It's not even that funny, but I would watch all these things, like you just said, and then I'd have to rewatch when I go the next night. I'll be like oh dammit, I don't remember the end. I spent so much time catching up on stuff I'd watched, but I was drunk, Crazy.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Oh, my goodness, my husband and I would say we need to watch parts of Game of Thrones again because, yeah, honestly, the wine drinking in that I think we were hand for hand trying to keep up with their wine drinking, it, just you know. And oh yeah, certain shows. And now I enjoy, you know, catching a show on Netflix and it's remembering it and looking forward to it. It's still fun. Just, I need to hear that, you know, on the Netflix, and that, at first, for me, was a trigger. You know, when we talk about cravings and triggers, right, hearing that sound for me was when I first stopped drinking, like a little bit of a trigger, but it was like, okay, now I'm going to get my special drink or whatever I needed at the time kombucha or, you know, moving to a seltzer or whatever you know was working for me at the time. I don't need to do that so much anymore, but at first I did so. It's so fun when we do that.

Speaker 1: 23:54

Yeah, absolutely. And the irony is that the whole act of watching a show is its own kind of fun and escape, you know. But we had to have something else with it and it's like, oh, that's you know, so true, and I still enjoy sitting and watching.

Speaker 2: 24:13

you know a series or a yeah, me too. You know I've gone through the Seinfeld series just because I was crazy. Oh, you did, it was so good. I blame it because I missed the 90s. I was written by. All three of my kids were little, so I just never had the time right.

Speaker 1: 24:32

I do often hear people say and not not a lot of people, but I have heard you know oh, that's just replacing by watching TV, for example. But I love that time For me. I do balance things. I have self care, but I love sitting down at night. It's still my time. But the difference is, if the kids need me, I'm present. You know what I mean. But I enjoy that time and I think I'll always enjoy sitting down and catching a good show. Yeah, and I'm not feeling guilty about that.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Honestly, whatever you know, I had another fellow person who went on the who did this naked mind stuff and she's, you know, bathing in the sun, like for her that's very relaxing. And you know what? Is it good for you? Who you know? Yes or no, right, do whatever it takes. Whatever you know, whatever you need to do to to be away from the alcohol, because that's only just horrible, oh, anything, I think I've learned to get on a paddleboard.

Speaker 2: 25:42

You know, at this stage, you know and learned, learned standup paddleboard and just trying different things and trying to meet people that I would never have stepped out of my comfort zone of, of you know the friends I had already. And when, when you set an intention or a purpose, like I set intentions to meet certain people in person, and I'm doing it, I'm trying to meet fellow coaches and stay in touch with people and it, it, you just have all these tools and things you can rely on to help with all that self care. And I love, you know, being an example for my adult children, even though they don't want to hear from me. I try not to preach too much, right, but they're watching, your relatives are watching, your friends are watching, so I just feel like not that I'm perfect or that what I'm doing is the right thing to do, but I know I am so much better of a person and keeping a lot of these self-care things in place is something I never did for decades, especially as mothers so important so important.

Speaker 1: 27:14

Oh, totally agree. And you said something before about, you know, losing the joy and passion for things you used to like and it's. You know. I was saying to my daughter recently, who's nearly 18 and legally in Australia can drink at 18, but she sort of had a couple of drinks. Thankfully, touch with my daughters, don't drink much. But I said to her really, really hang on to the joy you get at the moment from doing all the things that you love doing with your friends. That don't alcohol is not involved. And I said that's really important to hold on to, because that's what is lost when you start drinking a lot.

Speaker 1: 27:51

And I could honestly say that if I was still drinking and this might some people might relate to this if they're still deciding if they're going to stop drinking but if anyone had said to me, oh, I love hiking or I love yoga or ice baths, I think I would have knocked them out, because to me that just yelled boring, boring, and I'd want to get home, like you said, and just drink.

Speaker 1: 28:16

Everything was boring. And so I just want to say that if anyone's listening thinking, oh, boring you've, what happens is you find that joy, natural joy again, and you will find things that you find enjoyable. But someone said to me yesterday I commented on well, I haven't been to that pub because I don't drink, and they said boring. And I didn't bother saying anything, but in my head I thought anything but and thank God, you know I'm not bored. No one has to worry that I'm bored. You know, I'm actually a lot happier now than ever before and I do things that, yeah, I would have thought were boring because they took up drinking time. But we discussed, like you said, I paddleboarded last year for the first time. Well, you did.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Oh good I did and you know what I really enjoyed it. I'm not going to do it every week, but I tried something new. I do love ice baths and I will do that more regularly. We find things, you know that. And yoga I've done a bit more regularly. I don't do it all the time and it has to be a class that I like. I didn't just stop drinking and go. I love yoga. Right, I'm definitely not a yogi, like for anyone thinking that that's what you have to turn to, but there's some really great class. I went to a full moon yoga class the other night.

Speaker 2: 29:35

It was fantastic that you know. I went to my first one this summer on a beach Right and it just was in your right. This isn't you become alcohol free and then you become a yogi.

Speaker 2: 29:53

It's just you're able to step into other things that you never, never, could imagine doing, because, honestly, it would have taken up your pub time, right and on the couch with the glass wine, and it could be anything from you know hiking or you know your local bookstore or whatever, whatever Different things. I'm going to pick up paddle board. I know everyone else is kind of doing that, but I'm going to try it at some point and get back to learning line dancing or something Totally. But I don't have that fear you know where before, when I was drinking, it would have held me back. It would have held me back, oh for sure. And having that opinion when I was a drinker of oh, if you're not drinking, I didn't want you to come because you would be judging me Right.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Mm, hmm, I want people that enable me to come Exactly If you're going to sit and drink. You know, sit and drink and and yeah for sure. So I think that's part of it. And when you hear someone say that they're just having issues with their own drinking, right, they're kind of self reflecting a little bit and they're not knowing, right, you don't realize that once you can cut that out, that there is those things of fun, you become childlike again. You know, you find the amazing, amazing things.

Speaker 2: 31:33

I was with my you know little three year old granddaughter the other day and we're running through the failed plan tag and just running all over the grass and she just lies down on the grass and says Come on, mimi, come look at the clouds. And I thought my heart was going to break because if I was drinking I would have said let's go. You know it's almost time to get back because it's almost, you know, dimmertime, wine time, but like, of course, I'm going to, you know, lie on the grass and we're looking at the clouds and just things that you know. I'm so happy and blessed to be able to now, because being free from alcohol it gives you that opportunity and it just I just feel like there's mountains upon mountains upon mountains to climb and in it's the simple things.

Speaker 1: 32:25

It's not necessarily you know these big goals, it's just simple things life Absolutely, and it's about, like you just saying that made me think of, like the yoga with the full moon or on the beach. It's about being present and enjoying that moment, because that's all we've got. We hear that all the time. You've only got the present moment, but all we lived in was when is that next drink? Never present, you know, so being able to appreciate. You know, half of the reason I love the night yoga was that I'm like I am out in nature looking at a beautiful moon, there are stars, there are people that are conscious around me of their health, and I felt really privileged. You know it's a net, yeah, and I've got niece and nephews who are three and four and oh my goodness, to be able to get down and enjoy what they're enjoying. It shows you how to have fun again.

Speaker 2: 33:19

In the simple things, in the simple things, and you become so present because they can key in on the littlest things and you know, find that frog, yeah, or find you know, and it's just a reminder of how short life is really, yeah, and how much I had already given to alcohol, oh yeah, and that's not going to get any more in my time, ever, ever. And it is about being in the present. It's so important and it just gives you a whole different appreciation. For sure it does, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 33:58

I just wanted to touch on with you as well. You mentioned your seven or so years of moderation. Can you tell us a bit about that? Because I tried to moderate and for me personally it was never, ever going to work, because I didn't want one or two drinks. That's not why I drank. So can you tell us a bit about your experience with moderation?

Speaker 2: 34:22

No, I tried. I have notes. I wasn't a big journaler back in the day, but I did have some notes when I was taking a course or something and I started to just write a little bit of notes and I have something back, oh, at least seven years ago, that just said you know, I want to slow down on my drinking. I think I'm over drinking, like I made a comment like that and I had the date. So I actually have a date and that was a little over seven years ago. But I think it could even go back even further.

Speaker 2: 34:54

I really, you know, once I was hitting menopause, you know, starting or premenopause, with the hot flashes and that and my drinking. I was dealing with the anxiety and all that stuff. So I knew, I knew then I was just like I'm not feeling well. You know, I could look, look in the mirror and just look at my eyes and they were, they were just like telling me something, you know, and I just either saying, oh, you messed up again, you overdid it. You know I do so well for so many days, and then I would mess up again, and then I just had this empty, bloodshot, puffy eyes, and you know I just would try so hard and it took just so much mental energy, you know, to moderate. You know, when was I gonna moderate? How much was I gonna drink? When was I gonna drink? Was I going to drink at the work function? If I did, and or didn't, I would just have one glass and then I would drive home and then order myself because I did so well at the work function and I'd go and finish off you know a bottle of wine there. But it was like constant decisions, decisions, decisions, and that just led to decision fatigue and then I would just say fuck it, you know, at the end of it and just have the drink and it just.

Speaker 2: 36:34

It was so much work to moderate, right, and it took so much work. I mean I would measure out my things and it would go well. A lot of the time I mean it was innocent enough a couple of glasses or whatever, every, but I was still, you know, drinking a lot. And then I built up a tolerance, you know, and you build that tolerance for alcohol, right? So that's at odds with moderation, right? Because you're trying so hard and you're building this tolerance, so you need more alcohol to build that. And you know, trying to moderate and it just wasn't working. It just for me did not work at all.

Speaker 2: 37:28

And as you know just how alcohol works on the brain, you know it just the whole, you know, was a stimulant and a depressant at the same time. So chemically, you know you're messing up your brain and so why even put a little bit of alcohol in there when it would just make things so much work? So it would mess up your brain chemistry, it still gave you the fog. So I really, for all those years I just kept at it, just kept trying. I just wanted a foot in both camps and you know, then you'd have that whole cognitive dissonance going on. Right, I wanted to drink and I didn't want to drink. And I was the queen of moderation Boy. I well just having one. Or you know, oh, okay, you know I'll have the next one, but we all know that scientifically that that's why we're pining for the next drink. Or you know your wine glass is getting low at the restaurant. You know, oh, why is this waitress not coming quick enough? You know.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Yes, I remember that.

Speaker 2: 38:49

She should be over here a lot faster. So you know, even moderating or trying to moderate, it works until it doesn't, because it was always that time I just I was good, good, good, good, good, good, good, and then I wasn't. So for me it just took so much energy, so much work, so much into everything. It was so time consuming and then, oh it, just when I was gonna drink and rules, and these days and that days, and it went on and on and on and in the end I still and I'm talking almost a decade of doing fairly well moderating, but really not. And because my drinking uptick, you know, in the end, by the time I hit my fifties, with all those years of moderation prior to that, my drinking was actually getting worse and so giving up the alcohol was pure freedom. It just I don't know too many people who can moderate. I don't know if you've come across. No, I haven't really I've.

Speaker 1: 40:13

Obviously I think we all have come across either ourselves trying or other people interested in it being coaches. Always the client wants to try it and I totally get that, I think. Absolutely give it a go. Everyone has to work out their own journey, but for me there's no way on this earth that could have worked because I was drinking for the effect. So to me, oh my gosh, my 40th, 10 years ago, I saved up to go to this beautiful restaurant with my husband. So I saved up hundreds and hundreds. It was a very special restaurant in Sydney. It's called Tetsuya's and it's like a de-degustation menu and that was fantastic. But you bought the bottle of wine. You had to buy theirs at Costa Fortune and, oh my gosh, my night was ruined because someone else had control of filling up my drink and because it was such a classy restaurant, they took it slowly and I got a splitting headache after my first drink because you can see it was.

Speaker 1: 41:14

I went up. I felt good for that 20 or so minutes, but it hadn't filled up. My headache started. I was literally. I was like I started. I was literally going into a hangover and then maybe at 30 to 40 minutes, I'd get a top up from the waiter and it all happened again. I didn't feel tipsy after that at all because it was so slow, but I ended up, went back to a hotel with my husband, who must have felt the same, because we both said, oh geez, I've got the worst headache.

Speaker 1: 41:46

And we went to bed. It was like, but it was torture. It was absolute torture. I needed to have my own drink there so I could fill it up, drink at my own pace, in which case it would have been a ruined night anyway because I wouldn't have remembered it Right this way. I remembered it, but I was in pain because my body was detoxing every after each drink. You know, it didn't suit me at all and that's basically how I saw moderation. It was a painful experience.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Yes, if I had one or two and I did that occasionally I'd get a headache and go home. It was never going to work for me. But you know, I tried that myself. Everyone has to give it a go to see what works for them, but there's not many people that can, and I think because big drinkers to start with, we're trying to numb, you know, we're trying to take away the edge of something. So I see the people that can have one drink now and then as pretty much non-drinkers. Yeah, and they'll have it at occasion, and even then I might see. I have one friend in particular. She took a few sips and put her glass down and never went back to it, and even now I'd be going oh, who does that?

Speaker 1: 43:03

What I can't even look at it now, I know. But there are people that can do that, but they don't have any problem around thinking about alcohol at all, no, no.

Speaker 2: 43:15

And you can tell them they're the ones who could take it or leave it. And they literally leave that glass and you'd be staring at it saying, oh my gosh, I would never, never left a glass, but no, in. Those are the ones in. When you say moderation, those, how I think of the, that's the people, because they could care if they have it or not. Exactly.

Speaker 1: 43:42

So to them it's not moderating, yet it's. Look, it's an interesting thing, I think, if they're statistically most people can't moderate who are big drinkers. That's just what we've seen. What you know, annie, who's in this, like mine, talks about, but it's everyone's journey and up to each person to see. But just taking, like you said, taking away that thinking about drinking is the most freeing thing that has ever happened to me.

Speaker 2: 44:12

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 44:13

Isn't it? I mean that thinking about drinking, whether or not it's moderating or just your next drink, it takes up way more time than drinking ever did. But it's just you're not present, like we said, and it's just all about. If, with moderation, it might be about, yeah, I'll have one drink, then I'll have a water, then I'll have another drink and that'll do. You know, there's that. But then there's also oh, I'm going out with friends tonight. Oh, what if I can't get enough alcohol? Oh, should I put something in my bag so I can fill it up when no one's looking like? Yeah, just became everything.

Speaker 2: 44:46

It did, it did oh my gosh, it's not peaceful.

Speaker 1: 44:49

It's not peaceful, it's not a there's no freedom, it's just. It's a really horrible cycle to be in.

Speaker 2: 44:56

Yeah, and when you get in the grips of it and that's what it was becoming when I knew, when I was so impatient when the waitress didn't get the glass of wine, and so all those red flags, right, and they slowly came. They weren't like, oh my gosh. You know it was looking back, like, but those were things that were clicking in my brain, like this is not normal. No, this is not normal. This is not normal that you want to stop at the wine store or maybe go to a different wine store, because you've already been to that one.

Speaker 1: 45:32

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. And then in COVID, my biggest worry was at one stage, the poor people who got caught doing something wrong. Next thing on the news would be their whole history on their bank card. It's like one guy was the barbecue guy. He went to the barbecue shop where they sold barbecues 20 times in one day. Well, that was hilarious. But what if it was me going to the bottle shops? Oh my gosh. And I got panicked and had to go to different, use different cards or get even to have to worry about that was it's awful and you think of all that time.

Speaker 2: 46:09

And it's not just the moderation, it's the drinking in general, right, how much time? And never mind the hangover time. We're just talking the drinking time, right? Never mind the downtime after. Right, how you're not present. How I remember, even when my kids were little and I would occasionally over drink or get drunk and begging my husband, please, please, get up with them. I can't deal with that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another half day wasted, or just all that after time, just now.

Speaker 1: 46:49

Absolutely. Yeah, so much time Not fun. Well, not relax, it's not fun. No, it's none of the above. Well, that's what we're here to help with as coaches. You know if anyone's going through this, because it's really really hard to get out of and it's and sometimes you don't know when you're in it. A lot of the time you don't know we're in it. But for people listening to this, I feel that they've there's something in their subconscious talking to them. So really pay attention to that's important.

Speaker 1: 47:17

Yeah, I would say and yeah, if you need some support, there's coaches, but there's also. Listening to a podcast is great.

Speaker 2: 47:25

Getting the quit lip books, anything to help you get your head into a new thought process and yeah, so much information and there's so much out there now that people can can look at and be curious about. And you know, certainly even having a conversation with a coach or someone who's gone through a journey like that and just to talk about it, just just get it out there and never, never give up if things aren't feeling right. You know, listen to that intuition right and key into it, because that's eventually what gets you out of that. That awful cycle of, you know, detox, re-talks, detox, re-talks. You know, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:19

And it's not a smooth road. We've been there, so you know it's not. It's not just a one day. Things change, but every time you do learn more, or listen more, or just take that one step forward, no matter how many you might go back, you've you've planted that seed, and that's so important.

Speaker 2: 48:36

So important Because that wouldn't certainly be on the other side of it, hadn't you know that journey can be very squiggly and Absolutely yes. For every step forward there might be two steps back, but you just keep stepping forward and getting up and trying again.

Speaker 1: 48:59

You know 100%. Well, Michelle, where can we find you?

Speaker 2: 49:04

You can find me at Michelle Renee coachingcom.

Speaker 1: 49:10

Excellent. That will be in the show notes so people can find you there. That's awesome, and you offer coaching. What are you up to?

Speaker 2: 49:20

I am offering one-on-one coaching and anytime anyone wants to just chat and talk about that. I also are getting it a little bit into workshops. I'm trying to host a couple of workshops at a wellness center, just being curious about alcohol, trying to have an open discussion, try and answer any questions. If anyone has Any questions about their journeys and doing a little bit of you know, prepping for the holidays and how to navigate the holidays and maybe not over drink with the holidays coming up. So I'm trying to just get out in the community a little more that way also. I also have a booklet on my website on moderation. So for anyone who wants a little more detail on moderation, it's there to download and just enjoy the journey and try to be more involved and really share the story so it can help more people. This wonderful freedom.

Speaker 1: 50:31

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It's been so good to talk and we could have kept talking. I know for endless chatting.

Speaker 2: 50:40

It's been lovely to have you on. Thank you, I agree.

Speaker 3: 50:44

Thank you so much. If you don't already know, in addition to our podcasting work, we are each sobriety coaches with our own separate businesses helping people to drink less.

Speaker 1: 50:54

If you are a loved one, want to take a break from alcohol, we invite you to have a look at our individual websites. Megs is glassfulfilledcomau.

Speaker 3: 51:04

And Bella's is Isabella Fergusoncomau. So take the next step that feels right for you.