Father Will Banowsky Interview | Red Dirt Catholics LIVE — 2025 Discipleship Conference

In this episode, Jayce and James sat down with Father Will Banowsky, judicial vicar and pastor, for a candid look at annulments, prenuptial investigations, and the habits that help couples keep vows. We explore cultural myths about marriage, unpack a Scripture mistranslation, and share concrete ways parishes can form and protect marriages.

• what a judicial vicar does and why it matters
• how annulments and appeals actually work
• why prenuptial investigations safeguard consent
• the role of parish marriage files and documentation
• a paperwork mix‑up that teaches big lessons
• praying for young couples facing cultural pressure
• indissolubility of marriage versus easy exit mindsets
• the impact of mistranslating biblical texts on divorce
• mentor couples as the backbone of marriage prep
• learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable
• “nothing worth having comes easy” applied to vocation

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Hey, thanks for listening to Red Dirt Catholics. If you were not at the 2025 Discipleship Conference, you're in for another treat. Uh we've got another one of our guests or attendees on the lineup here. Hope you enjoyed the listen and it's as fruitful for you as it was for us.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Father uh Father Will, who's joining us here for our next part of Red Deer Catholic, just had a like a very very visceral response to the beep that happens before we get started. Um and that just happens.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I thought Jace had said a word he wasn't supposed to say and it was self-censoring.

What A Judicial Vicar Does

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Man, I wish it had that kind of capability. That would be that would make this a much more fun podcast. And uh Father Will, you are what's your fancy title for the archdiocese now? You like your pastor at you're pastor at Holy Spirit and Mustang, but you're at the Archdiocese, you're the judicial vicar. Is that is that right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

What is what does that even mean? Um what does that mean? Uh it basically means that I am the head of the archdiocesan tribunal. So I guess you could say that I um when it comes to matters of canon law, uh I am the head judge slash head canon law expert for the archdiocese. Now, whether or not I'm an expert, I don't know. I finished my license during COVID, so uh it's always hit or miss there when you're doing things virtually.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

There you go. Um so what is what is a what is a day in the life of a judicial vicar look like?

Annulments And Appeals Explained

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Uh you're gonna put everyone to sleep. I mean, it really it's that exciting, huh? It's well it's hard because right, I'm balancing it between the parish and between the tribunal. Yeah. And so um we'll skip the boring parts and go to the extent of it. So so for well, I mean, most of what I do on a daily basis when I go into the the pastoral center and I try and go in um twice a week is uh look at cases. So while canon law actually touches a large um area of the church, right? Uh a lot of what the tribunal does is the annulment process. And so we are for our archdiocese, what's called the court of uh first instance, um, but then we are the court of second instance as a metropolitan for Tulsa and Little Rock, so basically the court of appeals. Uh-huh. Um and so depending on the day, I'll look at either um annulment cases for um those in the archdiocese or if we have any appeals. So, you know, usually for the appeals, um, I write the sentence on those. Um, but also my office is the one, see, this is all technical and boring. Well, but it should have interesting. You should have asked me about like, you know, um uh how does how does uh college football age or spirituality be much more than the next question was gonna be how's college football twenty six going?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

But I didn't want to put you on blast.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So then my office also we we um process the prenuptial investigations, which again sounds a lot more terrifying than it is. It's really the dotting of the I's the crossing of the T's, and making sure that people are not like hiding a marriage somewhere so that you know.

Prenuptial Investigations And Paper Trails

SPEAKER_04 3:19

You know what? We actually it was actually really funny. So I had I didn't understand the way the church worked whenever Danielle and I were getting married.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Most people don't understand the way the church works and they've been in the church their entire life.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Right. And so I and I'd been, you know, less than seven years at that point. So we had our P and I done prenuptial investigation done by a priest in Kansas because Father Jim was traveling whenever we were trying to get in with him. So we did it there, which meant that we had to take that PNI, run it through Kansas's chancery, right, KCK, and then they routed it through here. And so here's the interesting. So we had him, we had their chancery, it gets to our chancery, and f then Father Jim, and then it gets back to Father Jim, and Father Jim calls me and says, Jay, do you believe that marriage is not forever? And I was like, No, I definitely believe marriage is forever. And does your wife not want to have any children? And I was like, No. He's like, then why did your priest put that on your PI?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

And how did it get through the Kansas City, Kansas Chancery before getting to our chancery and then back to me?

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Anyway, it was really enjoyable. We got it taken care of. Oh, that's good. I mean, otherwise, though, I mean you've had a kid or two if it'll be.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

If you had didn't get it taken care of, I mean, and and you could have just submitted that as evidence in the worst case scenario, it's like, well, I mean, obviously our marriage is null. Look at what we what we believed when we did our PI.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Oh my gosh, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

That's terrible.

The Beauty And Demands Of Marriage

SPEAKER_01 4:52

You know, it's really interesting too, because uh uh people don't realize how the the church works when it comes to marriages. Like, we actually like every parish is supposed to keep a permanent marriage file on every couple, and in that permanent marriage file needs to be uh the sacramental records, right? That they were baptized confirmed, um as well as you know, affidavits of free status, their PNI, their marriage certificate that it happened, and so but people don't realize, you know, some priests don't realize that that you have to have all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Um interesting.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

And also too, right? So like if a um if a priest has a situation where it's not just messing up on the PI, but it's like, oh no, I actually think this person really does not believe in the uh in the solubility of marriage, or oh yeah, it's very clear that there's no intention to have kids, um write a letter, seal it an envelope, put it in the permanent marriage file, and save me a lot of time on the back end. Hey, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Is what the priest could do. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's totally fair. What do you think how should we be praying for young people discerning marriage based on what you see that comes through?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Um that's a very good question, and I don't want to be very pessimistic on it, but it's uh it's the unfortunate reality of of of the culture we're in. Um the Catholic Church really is the only one that holds on to the indissolubility of marriage anymore. I mean, we are going into a culture where there's just this belief, right, that that marriage is a mutable thing, that it can end and that's fine, you know. If it doesn't work out, you know, move on now. There are things that make a marriage null that would make a marriage invalid. Um one of them being, you know, not believing that marriage is for indissoluble. Um, but I think that's the biggest challenge is that that we have lost right this understanding of what the beauty of marriage is. And I think the best thing to do is for couples to basically live out their vocation in a manner that really speaks to to what it is, you know, all the joys and also the hardships. I mean, um, unfortunately, like there's still people who believe that marriage is a fix to all the things you don't like about the person or like about yourselves as a couple, that um all of a sudden, you know, the the sacrament happens, and you know, you say I do, and now you're gonna be different people. But it's like if you're a jerk before you say I do, you're going to be you know, it's the same thing with priests, right? Um, ordination isn't gonna automatically make a priest not a terrible human being. It's true. If the guy was rude before or nation, he's gonna be rude the day after.

Culture, Translation Debates, And “Escape Hatches”

SPEAKER_02 7:53

In some sense, embedded in the marriage covenant, though, is that this acknowledgement that he is a jerk and I'm going to love him through it.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Right. You know, it's kind of my mom always tell uh tells a story about how, of course, you know, in the days before there were cell phones, you know, uh, and and and you had to use a payphone, um, she was waiting for my dad and uh he was late, right? And so she couldn't call him on his cell phone, you know. Eventually he showed up and goes, She was so mad and so furious that he was late, and it's like, but I can live with this. Like this one thing that really irks me about him is not a deal breaker. Um, the other s kind of struggle too, right, is that really um we just have kind of lost this understanding of really just the beauty of marriage as a vocation, you know, and I I don't want to say that like you can put all the problems with the 70s or cohabitation or whatever, although I do like to dig the King James translation of the Bible, and I think that is probably easy picking. Um, because their translation, right, so in the Gospel of Matthew, the correct translation, right, um, divorce is not permissible unless the marriage is unlawful, right? And I could go on a long homily or exegesis of all the things that wouldn't validate making lawful. Their translation is unless there is adultery. And so now, you know, especially um in a state like Oklahoma, where where we are very much a small sliver of of the Christian pie, um there are many who believe go into marriage saying, Okay, right, if you cheat on me, I have an escape hatch. I don't have to stay and fix this.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Adultery doesn't make a marriage unlawful, is what you're saying.

Mentor Couples And Realistic Preparation

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Well, what I'm saying is that there are people who go into it saying um marriage isn't permanent because there are conditions that make it impermanent. Okay. So if you cheat on me, then I can get out. Like, and that's what that translation, the King James, basically sets up. If if your choice, you know, it's only for if you're the one being cheated on, you can just get up and go. Yeah in and that's not healthy for a marriage, that's not healthy for a vocation, it's not healthy for an understanding of of the fact that marriage is forever. And that's why I think you know it's important to have good marriage prepared, but I think it's also important for for couples, um, especially those who are been married 30, 40 years, to walk with couples who are preparing for marriage and be like, yeah, like this is all the things that my husband has done or my wife has done that I basically have wanted to get a shovel for. But that doesn't a shovel. Am I wrong? Is that is is that your is that your preferred instrument? The question is that's just to dig the hole.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

So yeah, I was wondering, is the shovel over the head or shovel to dig the dead?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, I thought the shovel was over the head, and I was like, I guess it's multi-purpose.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

You heard grave first, but then you heard of this weapon.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Uh you want to use wild boars, actually, because they'll eat everything, including the bone. Oh, that's what you do.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

You know, yeah. Um sorry. Right, right, right, right, right. Of course, I I I'm sorry. This is what our priests think about at night.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

I I you sometimes might be When you think about that special parishioner. Same no, no, I never thought about that on a parishioner. My brother, maybe, but never a parishioner. Um, no, uh, but I think that's kind of the thing, is like, is, is we live in a society now where we're looking for the easy way, we were looking for immediate instant gratification. And if it's hard, well, then I can just up and quit. And unfortunately, our minds, our culture has been conditioned over the last few decades that that also applies to marriage.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

And part of it is the culture, part of it is um that translation from the King's James where it's already giving you an escape hatch. But but I mean, that's the reality is we kind of view marriage, unfortunately, like um your New Year's resolution of going to the gym.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

And so that's kind of what we need to address. And I think part of it goes to if when you have mentor couples who can be there in the prep and then walk with them after and and basically be like, Yeah, I know that you know, Billy is just an absolute like um playing way too many video games, you know. But like, you knew that when you married him, and that's not a reason to get out of the marriage. It's interesting. What I'm hearing is two notes. I'm hearing a note of video games are okay, people.

Apostolic Age Mindset And Discipleship

SPEAKER_02 12:39

I'm hearing a note of here are the ways we can help people preparing for marriage or or the ideas about marriage, but then I'm also hearing here's the cultural realities that are affecting how we view marriage.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Well, and yeah, and and the reality is, and and um speakers today have said it, um, we no longer live in a Christian age. We no longer live in Christendom. We are in an ap apostolic era. Now you could think of like, are we in a post-Christian age? I like to think more like, no, we are in a re-pre-Christian era. A re-pre you heard it here first. Um but uh but and I think that's the reality.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

That's worth thinking about.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

I think I think that's the reality is because if you think of it as like, oh, we're in a post-Christian era, then you've given up. But if you realize no, we can go back to it, it can be like a cycle or a roller coaster. Well, then it's a it's a re pre-Christian era. But I think that's the thing that we have to approach it, especially when it comes to marriage, but really even living out the faith. Um what the church asks, what God asks, what we are called to do, something that goes against the grain. And and sometimes going against the grain can be uncomfortable. Yeah. But Jesus never asked us to be comfortable. The whole call of the gospel is deny yourself, pick up your cross, follow me. And if we can learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable, then we can start to re-sacramentalize things.

Hard Things Are Worth It: Final Wisdom

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Words of wisdom from Father Will Banowski. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Well, I'm gonna end with this last thing. It's the best piece of advice I ever got from a man by the name of Robert Stoops. You may have heard of him. Um Bob Stoops. I I wrote him a letter when I was high school for a project, and you know, and he said Did he write back? He did. This is what he's doing. And he said, nothing worth having in life ever comes easy. And so if marriage is hard and you know you were the right person, stick with it. Because it's not supposed to be easy 100% of the time. I can't speak on marriage, but I can speak on my priesthood. It's not easy 100% of the time, but it's worth it 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Thank you, Father Will. Uh, get EA college football 26. And then challenge, challenge Father Will. It's worth it, but don't let that get in the way of your prayers going to mass or your families.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Amen. All right. All right. Thank you, Father Will. Thanks, Father Will.