Fr. Dave Pivonka, TOR, Interview | Red Dirt Catholics LIVE — 2025 Discipleship Conference

In this episode, Jayce and James sat down with Father Dave Pivonka, TOR, president of the Franciscan University of Steubenville, to explore why hope does not disappoint, how only Jesus satisfies the restless heart, and why goodness, patience, and hospitality change culture from the inside. Stories from a highway shrine, a world-class golfer, and a bustling campus reveal how mission lives in everyday places.

• giving an account of hope from 1 Peter
• the Blessed Stanley Rother Shrine as a sign of grace
• success and the limits of achievement to satisfy
• signs of renewal among young adults on campus
• mission beyond paychecks in secular workplaces
• Franciscan vision of being leaven in the world
• radical hospitality and patient presence as evangelization
• people as persons, not projects
• practical steps to embody goodness and integrity
• new resource announcement: faithandreason.com

Learn more about Franciscan University at https://faithandreason.com and https://franciscan.edu

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Learn more about the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City online at archokc.org, and follow us on social media by searching "Archdiocese of Oklahoma City."

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey, thanks for listening right here, because if you were not happy in 2025 that's not even coming from another treat, and then we've got another one of our guests and attendees on the lineup here. Hope you enjoyed the listen, and it's as fruitful for you as it was for us.

Introducing Father Dave Pavanka

SPEAKER_03 0:28

All right, and we're coming down the home stretch for the Red Dirt Catholics live at the discipleship conference. Um it's been an amazing day so far, and we've had one of our we have one of our most anticipated guests of the day. We've got Father Dave Pavanka here with us, the president of uh University of Franciscan at Steubenville. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Father, what are your So is this the last one?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

No, we have I think we have Heather Kim next. And then I think she's I think she's the last one. But it's been a it's been an absolute joy getting to be with all of our speakers today. What are you what are you talking about today at the conference?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Let's see. I'll probably say something about hope. So it's the sending, so it's the last uh talk of the day in one of the scriptures that's kind of been dominant for the uh week or for the day. I'm not sure if anyone else has talked about it, but from 1 Peter, it says, always be prepared to give an account of that which gives you hope. And so I'm just gonna talk about what is that gonna look like for them to leave here and be prepared to give an account of that which gives them hope. And the answer is always Jesus, by the way. If you're wondering what is the answer, it's always Jesus. It's always Jesus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really an easy quiz. The answer is always Jesus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Yeah, that's a great, you know. I want to bring back that. So my my son is named Peter. And I actually I bought him the other day, I was at the Blessed Stanley Rother Shrine, and I bought him. He'd been asking for more Saint Peter things because that's his that's his favorite saint. He's he's six. Um and I bought him a little medal for it, and I was like, Peter wants you to always have hope. That'll be a kind of a cool thing for him to run.

The Shrine Of Blessed Stanley Rother

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, I went to the shrine yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Yeah? What how did what did you think? It's phenomenal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I was here a couple of years ago, and it was funny that Uber driver, I think it may have been a taxi, doesn't matter. So it wasn't done yet. So he's driving by it, and it's pretty dominant, you know, in the landscape there. And he goes, I don't know what that is gonna be. It's either gonna be a casino, it might be a mosque, I don't know what that's gonna be. And I didn't know either, so I was like, Oh, okay. So it turned out to be neither. Casino mosque. Really? I mean, I I I was familiar with this story, but just a really powerful job. Congratulations to this diocese and being able to present that, and uh it's really, really inspiring. Yeah, for uh I'm sure most of the people are listening in Oklahoma have been there, but they need to go visit it.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah. What's beautiful, both his beatification and the erection of the shrine were were felt by Oklahoma in general. Yeah. Not just the faithful. Oh, really? Oh, that's cool. Oh, yeah. Like I mean, at the office when during the Beatification, even I remember like being kind of a baby Catholic, you know, fully embracing the faith as my own and being open to talk about this at work. And so people knew I was Catholic at this point. But I remember them like people who I didn't know were Catholic that were kind of falling away, were sort of celebrating the moment or had family that were at the Beatification, but other people celebrating, like, yeah, wow, I heard about that and saw all the activity downtown. And so it's really like a palpable moment because so many people descended on Oklahoma City, like people driving out of Kansas and Texas here, and you couldn't get in to the convention center at the time.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, that's really cool because it was such a and it's an inspiring story. You don't have to be Catholic or Christian and say, okay, there's something really beautiful about this story. And the way they tell it the shrine, the museum is wonderful. Everything about it was just fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Yeah. I absolutely love the shrine. Uh within all that, when we when we met with uh oh priest at the pres president over at St. Mary's, um University of Mary. Monsignor Shea. Thank you. He talked about it like that it has to be and it really has been like a cultural inflection point for Catholicism in Oklahoma, especially. And even now, like as a as a convert, and my family still hasn't um come to the faith yet, that is a constant piece of conversation because it's just right there on I-35. Like, if you're going anywhere north or south in Oklahoma, you drive past the shrine. They're like, Oh yeah, I drove past. My dad will be like, Oh, I drove past your your big old shrine the other day, and you know, and leads to certain different conversations.

Hope That Does Not Disappoint

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Um, our our guide yesterday told us of an individual who was driving by, just as you stated, no faith, in fact, about atheist, and felt drawn to just stop by. And uh, it was a woman. She walked around, she didn't know what was going on, but there was something moving in her. As the story was told to us, she was the head of some group and she called somebody on the phone and said, I don't know what I'm doing, but I can't be a part of this group anymore. So she came four days in a row just trying to figure this out. Like the second or third day, she met somebody who was trying to really explain to her. She goes, No, I'm not, I'm not ready. I I don't want to hear this yet. But there's something here. She came back, she came back, she came back. Uh, gave her rosary the fourth day. She just really sat down and said, Okay, what what is this? And her life radically changed just by driving, like you said, driving down the road. I should probably stop and look at this.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Yeah, and it and it and it happens just like that so often. So it's such a beautiful testament. But uh you're gonna be talking about hope. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you, like you're in it such a a unique and privileged position being at University of Francisca, and so you get to see all of these young people who are giving their wanting to give their lives to the church, or at the very least, wanting to give their lives to the heart of Jesus and be in a in a formed and amazing community where that can happen. Like, what do you see? What what are like some stories of hope that you've gotten to see in traveling the country or within the school that are just like reasons to be hopeful for the spirit of evangelization?

What Truly Satisfies: Beyond Success

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, that's that's a great question. Uh first off, the hope is all around us if we actually have eyes of faith. If we're placing our hope in something other than the Lord, I love in Romans, it says Romans 5 says, hope does not disappoint. Which is a pretty bold statement to say hope doesn't disappoint me. And then Paul says, because. Everybody should just shush and listen. It's like, well, why doesn't hope disappoint? And then Paul would go on and say, because the love of God has been poured forth into our hearts by the power of the Holy Spirit. So if an individual has experienced that, we you're able to see hope all around you because the love of God is ultimately what manifests that hope, what what enlivens that hope. And that's poured forth by the Holy Spirit. So what do you see? You see men and women that are encountering that, you see men and women that are beginning to experience that, you see men and women that are uh largely becoming disenchanted by what the culture in the world is offering them. I don't do you guys follow golf at all? Yeah. Yes. No. All right, well, you can just turn your mic off for a second. But there was a cool thing, there was a cool thing that happened at the at the British Open a couple of weeks ago. Scotty Scheffler, the best golfer in the world, all right? So he gets up and he says, he goes, I don't know why this is so important for me to win this tournament. He says, because the reality is, is if I win, it's great. And then two minutes later, it's like, what's for dinner? And then he went on and he said, Um, golf, and he's the greatest, as you know, he's the greatest golf player right now. Greatest golfer in the world right now. He says, ultimately, golf does not satisfy. And the golfing world went crazy. This is the British Open, and and they felt disrespected.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

St. Andrews. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

What's he's turning in his grave right now, right? But but ultimately what he said is if if you think golf is going to satisfy the deepest, and this is you know, an unbelievably talented person. He said, if you think that's gonna satisfy the deepest desire of your heart, you're wrong. And then Scotty Scheffler goes on and says, It's only faith and family that can do that. And and we've got this guy in the middle of the secular world, the golfing world and industries offended because they said golf doesn't ultimately satisfy. Well, he's experienced that. He knows what it is to be disappointed and what it is to not be disappointed, and only the Lord can satisfy that.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

There you go, baby. Yeah, there you go. Right there.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Hope it'd still be nice to be able to play golf like him, though.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Hope at the yeah, that's super true. I'm really into so I'm absolutely terrible at golf, but disc golf is something that I'm a lot better at um than uh than your than your average person. But uh nice, but yeah, we don't haven't we haven't had somebody. We had the world championships just recently for disc golf in Finland um out there. In Finland.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

In Finland. Were you in Finland? I noticed.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Oh man, I wish. That's awesome. That would have been so that would have been so cool. I I I don't I don't play professionally or anything like that.

Signs Of Faith On A College Campus

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Um you were talking about hope though. I mean, one of the I'm very blessed, like you said, I get to be a Franciscan University that has, you know, community. It it's pretty impressive, you know, on a set uh Friday morning at 6 30 in the morning on a college campus to go to Mass and there's 300 students there. We've got five masses a day on campus. That if if that doesn't do something in your heart that we're so critical of the younger generation, and there's just a lot of really wonderful things, you know, young men and women that are going on mission, they're spending their life poured out for yes, for the gospel, uh, of course, but one of the things I like to say is that there's an individual who works in finance in New York, and he said, I'll always hire somebody from Franciscan University. He said, Because A, they've been educated well, but they they graduate with a sense of mission. And and if you're if your sole mission is a paycheck, ultimately it's it's not gonna satisfy. So he said there's something about a Franciscan University student that yes, they're gonna do a good job, yes, they're gonna put in their hours, yes, they're gonna do their work. But there's something more than that.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

None of that is the end.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, exactly, exactly right, exactly right. And and I think the the struggle that we're feeling in in our culture today is that is that they think the paycheck is the end, or the promotion is the end, or this the girlfriend or boyfriend is the end. The reality is unless it's Jesus, we're always gonna be dissatisfied.

Mission Beyond Paychecks And Promotions

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Yeah. And it's becoming it's becoming more readily apparent now than I feel like it was maybe twenty years ago or fifteen years ago. Just like the that the that the solutions are the natural end of where we've what we've been pursuing as a as a post-Christian culture, or or how how did Father Will put it? A re pre a re pre-Christian culture. A re pre-Christian culture. That there's um that it's just becoming more and more like now with AI, I feel like we're really moving a lot faster towards the natural end of what all of the what all of this infinite things that can satisfy you um can be that are outside of Christ. Um and that it's just ultimately like really boring and less like and good, like all like all these people are now watching these AI Bigfoot Yeti videos, and that those are the that's the fun thing, like that completely made by AI, like other than just like the prompt that it is, and people are excited by that.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

And the Well, I would like to believe that's true. Um I think that in one sense that they've engaged the world and they've been left empty. Um and I think that it does provide pretty this conference, obviously, is a conference on discipleship and evangelization, so I think it does provide an opportunity to speak into that. But we have a pretty poor track record as human beings in in that we can uh we can devolve into a lot of pretty nasty stuff. And and you know, the the Lord is a patient God and He is be glad I'm not God. But he's he he allowed us because there'd be a lot more smiting going on, right? And one of the things that he gave us is the gift of freedom, and we have a history of just abusing it and continually abusing it, and I think the Lord will ultimately let us as a as a race, as a as humanity, let us go the way that you want to go, and those who choose to revolt against that and stand against that will rejoice and celebrate that, but particularly as a culture, um we don't have a great track record.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah, so what do you think uh as leaders or as parents or just as disciples, what do you think we can do to contribute to the wider culture that it we don't fall into these traps?

Culture, AI, And Spiritual Emptiness

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. Um B Levin. So uh St. Francis started three orders. So I'm a Franciscan friar of the third order. Um we like to say it took him three times to get it right. Uh the first order doesn't think that's as funny as I do, and I think it's hysterical. But uh so the first order is again this is really, really thumbnail sketch, but the first order is focusing primarily on poverty. So they so they were uh Francis, well, Francis first off belonged to a group called an order of penitence, then he started the first order, then he started the second order, which is poor Claire's focusing on uh contemplation, then he started my order. And the third order was a group of individuals who were working in the fields. They were um business people, they were bankers, they were teachers. Because Francis understood that if the temporal order was going to be transformed, it had to be infiltrated. It couldn't be done from the outside. So there's a beautiful image of Francis standing on the Umbrian Valley, and he looks over and he says, Um, the world is gonna be my cloister. And what he's saying, and religious life is radically different because of Francis of Assisi, is that we're not gonna build a wall and hide away and separate us from them. Rather, we're gonna tear down that wall, and if temporal orders can be transformed, it has to be transformed from the inside. So, how do you do it? You be the most loving, charitable, ethical banker that is. We've got one of our alumni in the Silicon Valley, he's done really, really well. And he's always posting about pro-life stuff and pro-uh-faithful marriage and all this, that, and the other in the middle middle of Silicon Valley. And I asked him, I said, why don't you get fired? And he said, for two reasons. One, um, I treat everybody with respect. He said, I'm kind, I'm thoughtful, I'm in, you know, and I make my company a lot of money. So both of those are really good, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Both of those, that's that's how the natural virtue he lives his life with. That's absolutely right. He's he kind of has the permission to play in a way, right? Like he's he's adding value. That's absolutely charitable to people, he's making the place better. All the cardinal virtues are applied at everyone around him.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Sure, sure. And that's how we bring about transformation, is is we are Christ to the world. You know, and and again, to go back to where we started, always be prepared to give an account of that which gives you hope. He's not walking into these meetings saying Jesus Christ is Lord. He's walking in these meetings with integrity, with respect, uh, treating one another. I mean, they're, as you can imagine, in these companies, just a very diverse group. Now, when somebody asks them, why'd you do that? Yeah, exactly. Be prepared to give that. To be prepared to give you a cope.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

That's pretty nice. That's how you do it. So be leaven.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Be light, infiltrate, don't hide. There, there's a concern I have is that we've I think we've got a growing population that wants to hide from the world. I agree. And that's not that's not Christian. I mean, Jesus, the incarnation is the God enters the messiness. And the only way we're gonna bring transformation change is entering the messiness.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

And we can't hide, we can't build walls, we can't run away, we've got to engage.

Freedom, Failure, And God’s Patience

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Yeah, I mean, kind of referring to like I mean, when did it come when did the Benedict option come out, come out a while a while ago, and where are you talking about Drear's book? Or I don't remember who wrote it. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Um and so the idea being like everything is so bad, we have to protect our families and create somewhat like isolationist communities where like this is where we're living and this is who where we're spending our time. And and it's a hiding, it's it's it's not being, you know, completely in the world, and there's definitely some things to say about retreating and surrounding yourself with virtuous other people.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Communities communities are essential in the midst of it, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Absolutely. Um, but ultimately that that it it won't it won't satisfy because we're create we're created to be a part of the Great Commission and to and to infiltrate like he's talking about the world. I mean, we were talking about this at lunch, right? When we're when we were looking at like what needs to happen at the cathedral right now, Father, I'm the director of evangelization for the for the cathedral here in Oklahoma City. And you know, we're just we're constantly geeking out about the difference between apostolate and ministry and how to set things up in such a way where the ministries spin off apostolates and they get to be apostolates. And one of the things that we were talking about is that the natural mission field for for your average person is like you're talking about with this guy in Silicon Valley. It's in their place. That's absolutely right. Like that's where they're naturally supposed to be um be in their apostolate. And sometimes we can we can get it messed up in our in our parishes that like the natural end is for them to like lead the men's group at our parish or lead lead some sort of ministry at our parish that's you know financed by the generous people of the parish, whereas there's a little bit more of it that like we want to be out there.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

That's like an extra assignment, but our primary assignment is the outpost God planted us at, right? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

And I think that that's what you're talking about with the hope and all of it. That's just like making me more and more than that.

Be Leaven: Transform From Within

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, one of the things I want to figure that out. I'm gonna close with kind of goes to the question as well, is this idea of being sent, which is the final part of the discipleship. Um there's a woman by the name of Rosario, not sure her last name. An actress? Uh no. She was uh she's uh written a lot about what she calls um radical hospitality. This was a woman who was in a gay relationship, um, totally anti-Christian, was very vocal. I think she's at Yale. She wrote a lot about it. And uh there was a uh actually it just happens to be a banker. I don't usually talk about, but but it just happened to be this banker in this area. He and his wife invited her to dinner and then invited her again and again. Just being hospitable. The the purpose was not we need to invite this person because we have some huge agenda. We want to get to know her, we want to understand why it is that she's so angry and hostile against Christians. As it turns out, over a period of about two years, this woman ends up converting, coming into the faith. She's now an apologist. She's not Catholic, but she's an apologist. And she says ultimately what converted her, somebody was hospitable to her. You know, we talk about the transcendentals, the beauty, goodness, and truth. You know, I think you can look historically, you can see there were times that beauty was there, times that b that truth was there. I think there's something about goodness today is that we're just kind with one another, people that we disagree, we don't disagree very well. And I think that's I'm gonna tell the people is that invite somebody over for dinner. You know, just get to know their story, look at them. I one of the things that Pope Francis said that I thought was beautiful, he said that things begin to change when we tear down walls and we see names and faces, right? But the people aren't that different than us. And unless we're gonna reach out to them, unless we're gonna engage them, nothing's ever gonna change. So apart from that, there isn't a great deal of hope. But trusting in the Lord that that he's gonna use individuals who are willing to engage that that world that desperately needs to be recognized and seen, then maybe we got a chance.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Amen. It's just that easy. See that? Just invite somebody over for days. Well, it is funny, okay? And keep doing but keep doing it.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah, that's just it. We have this big conference, which is wonderful, and these things are important, right? But the greatest evangelists didn't have a program. That's right. You know, they didn't have a book. They didn't can you believe that some people actually saved before the wild goose? I mean, that's remarkable, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So it is Which, if you haven't seen the Wild Goose series, maybe check out Formed. It's well worth it.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yes, we appreciate that little shot there, right? But but the point is, is is it's an individual who's in been encountered the love of God, and then just tells somebody else about it. It's it's not that complicated. It's it's not a class that has to be. I mean, we can learn things, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Um I like what you say about goodness. Like I think one thing in America today is like one way we can be we can express this goodness is to just be slow and patient.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

You know, like to give someone the time of day.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

You know, so that we can be radical and invite someone over for dinner, but we can also stop and talk and keep my phone down for a while. That's absolutely right, and have a human conversation and really care for the answer of how are you and go a little farther.

Apostolate In The Everyday Workplace

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Right, and to be authentic in that, that that to be authentically caring about the person. There was a story about a kid who was in high school and um evangelical, belonging to the evangelical church, and every time they got somebody to come to the youth group, they got a star. You got 10 stars, you get an ice cream, right? So he invites this guy, he says, You should come and go, I don't want to be a star on your wall.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Whoa. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

So the point is, is do we care for people because the value and dignity and the worth that they have, or is it our again a wonderful objective that they come to Christ? But if if they're a project for us, they're gonna feel like a project for us. But if you authentically care for them, want to get to know them, want to see them, that has a profound impact on the life of the individual.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

It's palpable. Like we can know if we're being delighted in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

That's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah, or we're just or we're just there. Placating them, placating them. Yeah, or we're an object in something.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Right. Right. Yeah. Wow. Well, amen. Well, thank you for that, Father Dave. Is there any is there anywhere uh that you want to point our audience to that you guys are a new project that Franciscan is doing? Yeah, we're doing like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Cool, thanks. It's called faithandreason.com and it It's uh a lot of the similar things that we've done with uh the wild goose, but it's a conversations. We just uh Ryan Anderson, do you know Ryan Anderson? Yeah, okay. So we just did a piece with Ryan Anderson, it's just really, really good. He wrote um when Harry Meet Mary Steve. What's the name of it? When Harry Met Sally. Yeah, so the book he wrote is When Harry Became Sally or something like that. Um, but so yeah, we just talked to interesting uh Catholics who are lit who are out there or living in the world and engaging the world. So it's called uh faithandreason.com. All right. All right, that was easy. Easy. Thank you, Father.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Appreciate you.