Bonus: Interview with musicians, Billy Moran and Camilla Darling

Over drinks, Berly and LA chat with musicians, Billy Moran and Camilla Darling.  Conversation mainly revolves around their experiences producing acclaimed albums with Dick Jr. and the Volunteers ("The Dance and How to Do It" and "Fistfights and Hug-outs"), Louden Swain ("No Time Like the Present", "Saturday Night Special", and "Splitting the Seams"), and the Station Breaks self-titled debut, as well as Billy's solo album, "Surprise Party for the Introvert".  Now, let's get tipsy!  CW/TW for violent and lewd commentary; listeners beware! 🔞

Summary: Albums by Billy Moran, Camilla Darling, Richard Speight, Jr., and Rob Benedict are discussed as well as the nuances of music production, emphasizing attention to detail and creativity. They highlighted the interdependence of different roles in the industry and the importance of collaboration and communication. Billy and Camilla discussed their experiences working together on the Louden Swain album 'No Time Like the Present,' emphasizing the ease and fun they had during the session. The speakers also discussed the importance of music in the Supernatural fandom, sharing their experiences at conventions and how music has become an integral part of the convention experience.

Thank you to Billy and Camilla for this discussion.  Check out the mentioned albums and upcoming events; links below. 

New Jersey/New York events May 17-20, 2024:

• https://www.creationent.com/cal/ce_nj/experiences.htm#spotlight
• https://www.creationent.com/cal/ce_nj/experiences.htm#concertinfo
• https://www.creationent.com/cal/ce_nj/experiences.htm#acousticjam
• https://mercuryeastpresents.com/tm-event/louden-swain-with-support/

Resources and band websites:

• https://www.camillamaedarling.com/
• https://www.billymoran.com/
• https://dickjrandthevolunteers.hearnow.com/
• https://www.loudenswain.com/
• https://www.thestationbreaks.org/
• https://www.paulcarella.com/

Transcript

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Berly: 0:01

Welcome to denim wrapped nightmares tipsy exchange Podcast where we explore the supernatural series episode by episode.

LA: 0:10

over drinks, we'll discuss the lore of gore and what we adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.

Berly: 0:17

I'm burly, and I'm a new fan of the series. I'm

LA: 0:20

LA, and I'm here along for the ride. Now let's get tips.

Berly: 0:26

Hello LA.

LA: 0:27

Hey, Burley.

Berly: 0:28

Something we weren't going to start doing back in season four was mid season bonus episodes. But with the strike, we ended up doing several mid season bonus episodes. And so we skipped it last season. But this season, it's back. We asked our Patreon members to vote on what they would like our bonus episode to feature and the overwhelming number of votes went toward an interview with a surprise guest. We'd already interviewed a couple of guest stars from the TV series. And for this interview, we decided to take it a different way. We are both huge fans of Billy Moran's surprise party for the introvert as well as Richard Speight. Juniors or I guess I should say dick Jr, and the volunteers fistfights and hug outs. If you follow us on social you've seen us promoting these albums and the album release party that happened not too long ago. So we went ahead and interviewed a couple of people involved in the making of those albums. First we have Zachary darling. He's a Grammy nominated audio engineer, mixer, producer, and musician based in Los Angeles. He has been able to work in all genres of music and with such noteworthy artists as the temptations, Geneva Magnus tyranny, Sutton band, Louden Swain, Jason Mann's Lita Ford, Yeah, you heard that right, Fanny, John five, Eric Gales, and many more. In addition to being a bass player and mixer for LA indie pop band, figs vision, while growing up in the Bay Area, playing bass and garage bands. He fell in love with the art and science of music making. Zach quickly became known for his depth of creativity, and fast hands on the console and in Pro Tools, whether producing, performing mixing or engineering. Zachary strives to make every project unique and impactful. And to make the artist sound their absolute best. And he's a doll. He's a darling ah. Who else did we interview LA?

LA: 2:50

Oh, I was gonna say he was he was a darling.

Berly: 2:52

He was bad for this hair door. Yeah, they both had great they have great hair. I wanted to reach through the screen like ah,

LA: 3:00

grab it. So along with Mr. Darling. We spoke with Billy Moran, an American rock alternative and blues artist, songwriter and guitarist based in Los Angeles. He performs independently with American indie rock band Louden Swain. Miranda evokes the breadth of Americana and the depth of blues and a single chord, a rare skill that speaks to his musical mastery. Attention to detail and a relentless pursuit of perfection are two tenants crucial to Moran's artistic sensibility. His passion was influenced by legendary guitarist Slash from Guns and Roses, whose imprint is tangible and Moran's playing. He performed in various bands and middle school before starting his own circle of karma as a high school senior. He also joined with a local band x it exit exit I was gonna say x it. Nope. Miss exit which led to rave reviews and opportunities to open for artists like Wyclef John and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones. Nice Moran was restless and eager to continue honing his craft. So in 2001, he loaded up his things and move to the West Coast, settling in Los Angeles. And there he formed last and Mayberry and independent three piece rock trio. When Lhasa Mayberry disbanded in 2006, Moran's momentum kept building, he landed a gig with up and coming indie rock band Louden Swain. Moran has also lent his guitar work to various records, including albums, the dance and how to do it. Richard Speight Jr. in the volunteers never is what it is and best days son spin featuring Michael Rosenbaum, begin by Briana Buckmaster and multiple albums by Jason Mann's including covers with friends and quarantine, Moran's discography continues to grow up. He is now stepping rightfully into the spotlight in tandem with Louden Swain bringing their music to fans worldwide. Write and although musically ambitious, Moran's drive is humble, he says, quote, it's about connecting with as many people as I can through my music. Some of the best feedback after a live performance is when someone tells me how my music has positively affected their life. What an indescribable privilege.

Berly: 5:17

Speaking of a privilege, here is our interview with Billy Moran, and Zachary darling. And if you hear a weird Gong sound and like the first five minutes because somebody was messing with the volume, no, you didn't mind your business. First things first, Billy and Zack, what exactly is the difference between producer versus audio engineer versus a mixer? We don't we don't know anything to base it off of so the simpler the better?

Zack: 5:52

Well, back way back when back when like having differences between all three of those jobs was really important. The old school kind of way of kind of approaching it was the producers, the person who's responsible for the artistic decisions of what happens inside the recording studio with the song What, What instruments do you need, if you decide I really need a string section on this or something like that, who hires the musicians who gets everyone in the room, and decides how to kind of like make the art happen. The engineers job is to be the person who presses record on everything, but also has like the kind of technical knowledge for how to kind of translate like the creative information into here's how we make that work in the recording world. So like if Paul McCartney's song Toad out of his mind on acid and walks up to you and says, I need to sound like I'm inside of an orange for this song, then it's Jeff Emmerich's job to put on his lab lab code and go, Oh, God, let me figure out what that means. And find a way to make it work from a technical standpoint, using you know, the limitations of the recording tools that they had back then. And then the mixer is the person who takes all of those, the elements that have been recorded by the producer and the engineer and the artist, and balances, the levels and tone and frequency content of all of the parts to make them sound blank. Whether that means make them sound more commercial, or more cohesive, or more like other records inside of that genre or something. It's their job to kind of figure out how do I turn this from, like, all these recorded parts into one cohesive product where you listen back to it, and you don't hear a whole bunch of tracks? You hear the song? That's a very big approach to like, you know, describing but all three of those jobs are

Billy: 7:44

100%. Yeah,

Berly: 7:45

that's probably what we have the ability of comprehending, though.

Billy: 7:48

Yeah, that's very important. Because nowadays, everyone wears multiple hats in the process, like Zach is he mix engineered the Digg Jr. and my album, but he also acted as producer in some ways to by coming up with ideas for this. And at the end of the day, the best idea wins, right. And it's, it's got to be an open collaborative process. Otherwise, it gets really stale really quickly. So my approach with with Rich's, for instance, was just like, what everyone chime in and decide which pathway we wanted to go down based upon that information. I prefer that, you know, because it feels it's very open, and everybody feels involved and included. And it just makes for a very fun process. Did

Berly: 8:35

that ever get overwhelming? Or like, too many chefs in the kitchen kind of vibe? No, because

Billy: 8:40

I think at the end of the day, it's like, when you when you claim producer, you're kind of the quarterback for the team, but you let the running back running into the endzone, you know, or you know, so it's like, it's all a part of 111 collective unit. But, you know, everybody kind of knows going in Who's that last person's has to decide or have to happen with that. That last call? You know, that's why I love working with Zack is because we get along so well and have very similar ideas and styles.

Zack: 9:06

Yeah, by the same token, like it makes my job easier from doing more of the technical stuff to know that Billy has a whole lot of technical knowledge halls. Like it takes a lot of complexity, forethought and planning to build a guitar rig that gives you all the possibilities that you need for like a three hour long live show where you're like switching genres all the time and switching singers all the time to you know, he also has done a whole lot of recording on his own. Like it was a years long process leading up to when we actually hit the studio for being like, this is the material that is going to make Yeah, the ability solo album, that was something that we both really excited about for a very long time and took a lot of like building things up changing songs coming up with different parts compromising on who the band is going to be where it's gonna get recorded and all that stuff before we can actually get into it. And that's, you know, that's creative work, but it's also very, very technical. Sensitive.

Berly: 9:57

Right, and you said that took about a year Yeah,

Billy: 10:00

I mean, I would say a couple years, my album took about a couple years just in pre production. Because at the end of the day, it's like, when you're funding the album, you want to make it the most efficient when it comes to hiring the studio and hiring the talent, all that stuff. So the more you can get kind of ironed out in advance, the quicker and more seamless the paying and if it's going to, you know, so you're volunteering your own time, and essentially, to make sure that everything is clear and concise, and all the parts are kind of written the way they want to hear it. And then when it comes to recording, you just follow the book.

Berly: 10:36

Now that you mentioned at the beginning of your answer to the first question that when it was important for all of those different labels and hats to be an individual person, this is what each one did. When did that kind of start melding together like you guys have described?

Zack: 10:53

I can I can almost pinpointed probably about 2001. Yeah. So a funny thing happened at about the same time when I started, like getting really interested in recording music. And like, my backstory is epic. I was in a bunch of garage bands and stuff through high school and whatnot, I kind of got interested in recording music first, because like, I was too cheap to pay someone else to do it. Like I just didn't want to trust anybody else with it, I thought I knew better than everybody. And you kind of need a little bit of that ego to kind of like make that first big leap. And I also kind of made that choice and got good enough at music at about the time when Home Recording setups became affordable and attainable. Getting a Pro Tools rig man spending four or $500 instead of 15,000. You know, so I got like one of the first like Home Recording setups, like maybe the third generation of them that was ever produced. And like I've learned how to use Pro Tools and record stuff on my own through that. I have a family member, my Uncle Dave darling is like a very, very successful record producer. He's done a bunch of like Brian Setzer records and stuff like that. So I would like come down to LA, and sort of intern with him for a few summers. Like I think like, during college, I did that a couple times during high school, I did that once. And I would like watch him work on like narrative looks records and stuff like that. I learned a lot by watching and I also learned how high the bar was because he was so much record himself because he was taught like, you know, by really hardcore engineers, like how to do it inside of like, you know, recording setups where if you make a mistake, it's a big problem. If you make a mistake on tape, or on a dot, there's no undo button, there's no going back to a previous revision you make. If you if you create problems, like that's it, punch in at the wrong place, your whole recording is destroyed. Like if you record on the wrong track, or you leave something enabled for too long, you can erase everything you hear all these crazy stories about like Bohemian Rhapsody was almost accidentally deleted, because they kept on using the same tape machine over and over and over again. And almost were all the way through it. Like, that's just a thing that people have to be worried about all the time. You know, I kind of had to learn from people who came up like that, where the pressure is a lot higher, and like the cost of mistakes is a lot higher, too. And that's kind of what made me want to be methodical and efficient in the way that I kind of like think about jumping into the recording process. Because if nobody's worried about is the engineer going to fuck up and delete our entire record again. Then suddenly, everyone can kind of let their guard down and the creativity flows easier. It's more fun that way. Yeah, that's, that's, that's how I grew up. I guess. This

Berly: 13:37

shows how much I know about the music industry whenever he was like 2001. And I was like, oh, Napster, like that has

Zack: 13:44

nothing to do with it. Ya know, that also kind of changed things a lot. But it really changed like the industry side of stuff. The creative stuff was heading in a different direction anyway, in a lot of ways. I'm really excited by like, the idea that there's less money in the industry and that people can like start from the ground up and build their own thing a little, in a lot of ways. The music industry is kind of going back to porch, which is great, right? But it also means that there are fewer millionaires and music now. You know, I don't know what it will. What don't say for me to ever get there probably won't but

Billy: 14:17

true. You do for the love of the art.

Zack: 14:19

Of course. Yeah, I wouldn't lose the sleep if I didn't love doing

Berly: 14:22

it. Right, right. Zack, I know you're Grammy nominated. I am Yeah. On what album and which artist was involved in that? Both

Zack: 14:31

Grammy nominations came in in the same year so there was just one very like oh God really I'm like taking people have to take me kind of serious initially now. I worked on this Best Contemporary blues nominated record for an artist named Jonathan Magnus. That's another one that my uncle slash mentor produced. Phenomenal record really, really good. If I were being picky I'd say the one before that was like a little bit stronger and more fun like for me but like you know also but Have both like very, very, very good albums. And we actually just finished recording all the basic band tracks for another one that will be coming out end of the year, probably we will see. I also engineered and mixed a few songs, not the whole record, but like I think four songs for vocal jazz record for an artist named tyranny sudden. And what she does is she has like the most creative, vibrant intense musicians in LA playing her backing band, like there are four or five guys that are just phenomenal musicians, people who are just on call for everybody 100% of the time and picks a different one to like produce the next album. She has one that's like all kinds of like jazz standards. Another one that's all like songs from like film score. And there's the one that I did was called the stinger variations. And it's all sting tunes that got rewritten to be like very high level like post bop jazz tunes, a lot of them are very, very technical harmonically very complicated, gorgeous, really, really fun record to work on. There was a whole lot of challenges that went into that. And that was a really big challenge for me, because like it was one of the projects where like from the get go, everyone just kind of walked in and said like, oh, yeah, these arrangements are really good. This will get nominated for the Grammy and I'm sitting there going, Oh, yeah. Wouldn't that be cool? And they're all like, No, we're serious. And we're like, Oh, God.

Berly: 16:14

No, no.

Zack: 16:18

I gotta get good, real quick. Yeah, I had to, like, read a bunch of books about like old microphones and stuff and make sure that I was always half a step ahead of everybody else. Because jazz recordings have a very particular thing to them. And, you know, my recording world is not that. So, so I had to, I had to do a lot of catch up work. I enjoyed it so much. And I'm really happy that was so well received. But successful jazz records, the pool for jazz is so much smaller than I didn't really realize that like, oh, kind of a small fish. Yeah, small fish like me could still probably like you know, work on a very, very good record and have it still be very well appreciated in a world that's that much more open. Or like the listeners really listen to everything. They're way more accepting. There's no such thing as like, a big jazz record. They're just a lot of different kinds of jazz records.

Berly: 17:09

Hey, we recorded an episode for our podcast the other day, and I don't remember why. But Kenny G came up. Oh, yeah, he had, he had to top 10 billboard hits. Yeah. To Kenny G can do it. You can do it. So can I believe in you.

Zack: 17:32

Thank you.

LA: 17:33

How long have y'all known each other? And when like work together? Or did you meet working? Well,

Billy: 17:38

I would say that we want each other was since 2015, six, something like that. Yeah. Louden Swain was performing on an online streaming service, we had to find a location to broadcast the show. You know, one of the owners mentioned this guy, Roger Carter, who in the studio and in the valley. Zach is the the engineer there. He's helping us set up the stuff and to his earlier point about like taking in all you know, making meticulous notes and being super detailed, and all that stuff. I noticed right away, I'm like, This guy is on this guy knows his shit. Immediately. I was like, Okay, I feel like this guy is going to be someone that we can definitely see working with. And I think we were doing some station breaks writing. And it was Jason and Robin and myself. And we're sitting around and we're talking about like, where do we want to record this thing, and immediately popped up like this. doghouse studios. You know, that engineer was great. And the studio has had a cool vibe to it. That was our station mix was our project.

Zack: 18:40

No, totally. Yeah, I remember after the end of that stage, it being like, Oh my God, this band is so much fun. I'm doing a thing. Like where did this word these guys come from? I didn't I didn't know about like, the supernatural thing I didn't know about inventions. I didn't know the fan base. I didn't know the lore. I didn't know how long they'd been around. Like that is a bandwidth history. I was just like, man, these guys have energy on stage. I want to do this record. And so when I got the call to be like, Oh, we're working on like this other record. I was like, how about the other band? And like, you know, we had we had so much fun working on that first station breaks record that, like, you know, that's still kind of stands out was my favorite records that I've recorded, ever. Really

Billy: 19:21

ever. It was so easy. You know, there's something about that album, it was just so easy. I mean, we did it in two days, you know? Oh, wow. All the vocals. I remember. Typically when you're, you know, you're tracking vocals, you've got four songs, maybe max a day before you're starting to get tired. And I remember Rob was like eight songs and nine songs. I can keep going, I can keep going. Alright, well, let's go see how we can knock all these songs out. But it was it was pretty wild. That kind of set the bar for me too. Like you're going in the recording sessions every time you know. Yeah. But you know, I try. Not that not that easy, though. Yeah, it was. It was an anomaly. Yeah. So it was it was a great session that kind of kicked off our friendship. You know, I established a tremendous amount of trust for Zack, to be able to get us from start to finish, you know, in a very easy way. So it's been great, quick,

Berly: 20:15

fast, fast hands. I saw that on Yeah. Yeah. All right. So after station breaks, you guys collaborated on a Louden Swain album? Is that what I heard? Yeah, yes. Which one, it would

Billy: 20:30

be no time, like the present would be the next one. And that was fun. That was super fun. Again, we get to that dog house. Yeah, a lot of the songs were written and demoed. And there was a few that weren't quite done yet. And I remember being like it was kind of like a whole collaborative thing where Zach was inputting and giving us suggestions as to what tones we should use here. And there was a super group effort that goes down in history for me is one of my favorites that we've recorded. Remember, a tract. This is how I remember the demo that I had. for it, I originally sent it to rob, it was more acoustically, like acoustic ballad, we kind of we kind of wrote it in the room there with everybody. Just kind of really all these different parts and stuff. It was great. Yeah, I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna sing this. And I remember, I was talking to him on the way to the studio. We're both, I think, as an attendee, and start time, and I remember like, distinct, like, what would David Bowie, you know? Like, that kind of stuff just helps really inspire the person at the day, you know, like, if you just give them a little bit of something, you know, like, oh, okay, now I know what you're saying. Yeah. But that was fun one.

Zack: 21:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for a lot of those sessions for actually even still, like for a lot of love in Sweden stuff, like I might hear part of a demo, or we might listen to like someone's scratch track, like on the day that we're recording the song. So like, my first impression is pretty sight unseen. I never have any idea what to expect. And I'm never totally sure like, where everything is going to be headed to because like, everyone's very, very fast, very quick to come up with new ideas and write new parts. And actually, I do remember that song in particular, because I think yeah, I think I think you're just kind of spitballing like, Oh, what if you sing it? Like, remember the time we fell in love? And like, you know, Rob had written other lyrics or something. It's just like, yeah, it's a good idea to scratch all of his lyrics out, wrote a whole new ones that just went like. And that's on the record, it was probably like two or three takes and that whole thing was done. Yeah. Yeah. The energy for those sessions is pretty high. It's been

Berly: 22:31

so what's a scratch track? You just said demo? or scratch track? What's What's that? Well, depends.

Billy: 22:37

I mean, my some of my scratch tracks are pretty elaborate. But yeah, most of the time, though, it's, it's a voicemail, you know, something is recording your phone, and I get these ideas. I go, and I find a space where I'm just by myself and I hear a melody, and I'll mumble words, and I'll sometimes the words won't making it into the song somehow. But that's my example of a scratch track. And then sometimes I'll take it a little one step further and put it into a recording software and start to kind of, oh, what would the bass be doing? Or what would the you know, I kind of define those little components, because so a lot of times they're off here, more than just one guitar part, not here, like a countermelody that a guitar could be doing in order to make that whole thing work. For me.

Berly: 23:20

I feel like we've already kind of touched on this, but I want to get a little bit specific to the album. How did you to collaborate specifically on surprise party for the introvert, versus how you collaborated on fistfights and hug outs?

Billy: 23:37

Well, for surprise party again, I had that batch of demos. And I was holding them very close. And I didn't know I didn't know if I really wanted to release an album. I didn't know where they would. They were different enough where they weren't Louden Swain songs, I knew that for sure. They weren't staging break songs, and they didn't know where they would live, you know. So I'm like, Okay, I guess the next step for me would be to actually go out mountain. And again, going back to the whole, like, level of trust, and I have Rezac he was my first call. Because I was like, I have the songs I think I want to put out so um, and want you to hear that, you know, and he was the first person that really heard the demos before, like, anyone, like, my family hasn't heard the songs, you know what I mean? So it was one of those things that I kept very, very close to my chest, because I didn't want to have any outside kind of input that could potentially push me in a different direction. You know, I mean, like, I wanted to stay true to what those those ideas were. And I think he came over and we just listened down and yeah, it was pretty much you know, okay, Zach got it. It was pretty, pretty easy. And then we just found a date that we were going to go in there and actually track the drums and the bass knocked that out for two days. And then everything else is kind of came together over the course of like, six months, you know, from adding keys to extra students here and there doing multiple business stuff.

Berly: 24:53

Okay, so how was it different working with Richard? I mean, Billy's album was an ensemble as well, but It the ensemble that was Dick Jr. and the volunteers. The

Billy: 25:04

biggest thing for me was I didn't have to spend my money that was a bonus. I mean, a lot of those guys from the volunteers, I mean, again, we're working with the station breaks, right, so we're working with Rob Humphries. We're working with Kuiper Belt. And those guys have played on more albums. I think, then, you know, I can even count on Sure. Especially within this this fandom, you know, when you have come ran a Buckmaster, you count Gil McKinney, you name it, it's, they plan on everything. There's a reason because it's like, they're super efficient. And, and they're they they lock in really well together. And again, you're trying to get as many songs done in a day that you possibly can. So those guys were good. We knew for sure, you know, even you know, calling from Dick Jr. Volume One, right? We knew those guys were important. Zack Ross is integral to the whole process as well, just for that country flair, he has a lot of those those country noodles that are so so needed for any kind of country out. And then he's just a great guitar players, great guy to have in the studio. And then from there, I mean, that was our that was our day one. And day two is tracking drums, bass in Zach Ross. And I was doing some color stuff here and there a few of the songs at the same time kind of navigating the whole thing, making sure it's being run as efficiently as possible. But yeah, the big part for that was I was more able to sit back, I felt like with Dick Jr. and kind of watch it play out and kind of make some calls I already knew on surprise party for the introvert, kind of where I wanted the songs to go. Whereas with tic Jr. Those demos were very informative. But I didn't know quite the vibe of the album until we got into the room, you know, and how that was going to all come together. And then having rich there as well was huge, very huge for me to be able to work with someone who's so closely like rich, we think a lot of like when it comes to that kind of being in the studio, making decisions, like he and I were very in sync

Zack: 27:08

process, which is incredibly cool. Yeah, Background Playing advanced and stuff also made things a lot easier, because he could speak a musician language. And that's usually like a really, really good thing for an artist to be able to do. Because if they can kind of direct the band, hands on face to face, it usually makes things a lot smoother, and gets everyone on the same page as fast as possible. And he was also very creatively flexible to like, I think I remember one of the demos that he brought in was very straight up and down, like kind of like a very even sort of like 90s rock song that we listened to the demo for and spend a little bit of time talking about like, Okay, this is a good song. It's got a good melody, the structure is all there all the parts are working. But it doesn't really feel like it belongs on this kind of like country record, what can we do with it? Because we can't have a pop punk song on a country. But like, I think eventually, like we kind of came around to like, let's make it a little feet soft. Like let's make it like kind of like swung and loose, drunk in New Orleans and stuff. And like, so we put it into that space. And suddenly, you know, had to get comfortable with a whole new version of the song really, really fast. And like which can keep up he's great at that. That was a really fun one. Turned into one apply there. It's awesome. Absolutely.

Billy: 28:20

I think that goes to his director of shots, too. Oh, yeah. I feel like the fact that he's got that brain, you know, to be able to direct a film crew and get to where he needs to be. I think it's makes it very easy for him in

Zack: 28:31

the studio. Yeah, those skills do overlap. Yeah, directing accuracy is not that different from musicians, you don't want to give them too much. You don't want to give them you want to point them in the right direction, then let them make choices.

Berly: 28:44

I don't know if you'll be able to verbalize this But Billy I've heard you talk a lot about finding the vibe. Or when you were choosing the order of your songs on surprise party for the introvert the flow? Is there a certain process that you go through to discover that is it just a feeling that you go with

Billy: 29:03

it's really just my feelings is my gut, we did the same thing with Dick Jr. and volunteers and like we were pretty much in sync on that order of the unintended I knew that I wanted number two to be read out. I just felt like number number two should be read in on that on that track order. My thing is like start out with a bang and and keep it going you know and you never want to drop it down. I think there was a discussion maybe bring me down a little bit on consumption like but so I feel like it's always just kind of instinctual for me like what I would do if I were building a set for a live show for instance I would want it to have these peaks and valleys want to keep the listener engaged at all times whether it be in a seat in his in an arena or a club or listening to it in their living room. You know, I feel like it's important to kind of create that kind of show an order for lack of a better word is a setlist you know, it's like what your what you want your audience to hear. I just always enjoyed doing that. I've always loved

Berly: 29:58

you're really good at it. I think like, I definitely I know what you're talking about where I've listened to an album that the flow wasn't great. And I'll find myself skipping around.

Billy: 30:09

That's your worst nightmare.

Berly: 30:12

And it's not a criticism that I've ever thought of before. But I just know, this is something I've done with some other albums. And both surprise party for the introvert and fistfights and hug outs and the dance and how to do it dictionary volunteers first album flow all the way through from beginning to end. And where'd the time go? Like it just flies by so you're good at it. For me,

Billy: 30:34

well, thank you. For me. It's also important though, that that very last song on the album, the end, it somehow supports the first song as well, you know, I mean, so it's like, if you were playing anywhere in that set, and anyone that said, if you started that song six or whatever, and you continued on, it would still make up a good set, you know? So it's, I love doing that. It's very fun. Me to get more songs to be able to do Sure. Yeah.

Berly: 31:01

A couple years from now, is that is that how long it's gonna take again? Yeah. Well,

Billy: 31:04

I mean, news is news. But I think you know, we've been talking about the next station breaks record right now. And we have a ton of material. Yeah, we're going to start really working on that. I think next year, next six months.

Berly: 31:18

There's only one station brakes album right now. Right? Yeah. And when was that? 120 16? You

Zack: 31:23

said a long time. 1617? Yeah, long time ago. Yeah.

Berly: 31:26

So you're gonna have your 10 year anniversary and sophomore album? Yeah,

Billy: 31:30

we talked about. Yeah, it was about doing like, releasing the station breaks greatest hits album, where it's like, all the songs but one gets left out. We're on it. Yeah. I'm excited for that. And then, you know, Paul and I are going to be working in one word together in Rome on new songs for that project as well. So why

Berly: 31:52

don't you talk a little bit about Paul and the project that you have with him? Yeah. Paul Corella,

Billy: 31:57

my writing partner and tricky and see, he and I have been working on a bunch of material and in which we have also enlisted execs free to help to produce and mixing, do all that great stuff for the first couple of singles. As far as the next batch, I think we're going to wait and kind of just release the full length album now, rather than releasing the single after single, to your earlier question. It's like, I enjoy albums. I enjoy putting albums in order and putting together we have a few songs now that we're going to be finishing up and probably give you one or two of them in Rome this weekend. I think the plan is for he and I to do a short tour in the UK sometime in the fall, early fall, and really kind of hone in on those songs and finish them up. Because it's gonna be so much easier when we're together. You know, that's the goal. Yeah, book studio time after that, and hopefully get called to come to LA and you can get the whole team together and I'm excited I love working with. Yeah, I love working with Paul. He's just, he's one of those guys that we immediately clicked you know, it's like we I knew right away right off the bat. Like I like this guy. He's a straight shooter. You know, we just really enjoy each other's company. So like to write songs with them and be able to tour and stuff. It's just so nice.

Berly: 33:16

It's totally unrelated, but I saw a video where it was James McAvoy, like telling bedtime stories, okay. And then I found out Paul Corolla is on cameo. So then I found a fairy tale Mad Libs that LA and I are going to do and then send to him and ask him to read it to us. I'm very excited about it. Oh, I don't know. I don't know if this one's going to have an answer. But I'm going to ask it anyways. Which song? And from which album, would you say presented the most challenges? And how did the two of you work together to create that final track? And you can have different answers. I can. You're allowed.

Billy: 34:01

I would say for for me. For surprise party, I would say the song that ultimately became drift was probably most difficult for me because when I recorded that it was a different song in the studio, we track the drums to a completely different feel of a song. For whatever reason I wanted 10 songs on the album and I really liked the song but it wasn't working for me. So I went just completely changed the feel of it. Since exactly like, okay, it kind of works a little better now. But that one for me was was a big challenge. Not that the original song didn't work, but it just didn't work in conjunction with would have been one of those moments in the album. You're just like, oh, okay, that took me in a different direction. I have to get back into that. And as far as for Dick Jr. I would say the hardest song for me was probably liking more when you do it. It's weird. I mean, because it oh yeah, there's so much time that it's sad from the original Dick Jr. session that we had to kind of just re familiarize ourselves with that that song that record Reading and yeah, and I think that was probably mean. And I thought it was difficult to do. But it was hard to be in a super creative mode at one point years ago, and then have to get back to that point and finish it. You know? Yeah, that was probably my hardest one. But I'm really happy with how it came out. But I know that it was, it was hard for me to kind of get those creative juices going, again, for a song that was our I was already super stoked about. So is this. It's hard to put it on hold, you know, hard to put a song on hold me back. Yeah,

Zack: 35:29

I mean, I agree with you on that. I think the songs from that we recorded for the first juniors record that landed on the second one, because they just were not working out of the way like for the time for the first record to come out. Were some of the hardest ones both from like from a creative and also kind of technical angle just to make them feel like the same project. For me. I think Copperhead road was probably the single hardest one that took the most time and most tries to kind of make, because when we were in the studio, and we recorded that for the first time, everybody laid phenomenal. That's one of those songs where we ran one take and said, Everybody make it smooth here, we ran a second take and it was perfect. And we ran three more. Then we tried putting a different drummer on it. And then we tried replacing other things. And then we added a violin. And then we tried a few other stuff on top of that. And we have all these like, you know, weird loop effects in the background and stuff. Like we tried way too many things to make that song something other than what it was on the second take. Eventually some of those things did end up on the recording. Like I love the violin performance. That's my mom, my homie Molly Rogers played on that one. She's like one of my favorite musicians period, her violin stuff and Zack Ross is guitar playing on that were pretty amazing. And everything sounds really like hypnotic, and really interesting. I think we spent so much time trying to make that take better when it never needed it. And it took us a while to kind of like step away for long enough to come back in like okay, well, this feels like a song that will fit beautifully on this record. And now we know what it has to be. And now we're not going to like try and push this boulder uphill, we're just going to let it go a little bit more make it feel right in context. That

Billy: 37:11

was a perfect example of a song needing that extra space in order for everyone to realize how great that take too was. You know what I mean? It's like, sometimes you get so close to when you're like, Well, I think we can get something and you started overthinking it. And yeah, we've all been guilty of that. And you know, to some extent, but yeah, that was definitely one of those songs that benefited from having that extra space, the extra time to kind of sit there and we pulled up the session that day one second, I'm like, Yeah, that's great. Yeah. That's all nice.

Zack: 37:46

Why didn't we finish this last time? Oh, wait, a lot of a lot of reasons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Berly: 37:53

I do particularly love what y'all did with Copperhead road because Billy knows this Zach not so much. That gets played that Saturday Night Special fairly regularly. Okay, cool. But what you did on the album, like it's the song but it's not what people who who regularly go to conventions or used to hear it's like a different take on it. You did really well with it. It's not what you see live. It's got that extra Jewish going with it.

Zack: 38:18

It's a mood. Yeah, I'm

Berly: 38:19

not I'm not blowing smoke. I'm a huge fan of both albums. How many times did I annoy you by sending you the link LA and be like, Have you listened to this yet?

LA: 38:26

She did. I was procrastinating.

Berly: 38:30

And then when you finally did you were like, Okay, I

LA: 38:31

guess I'm sorry.

Berly: 38:36

tacking on to the last question we just discussed. Do you have a favorite song or a song over which you feel the most pride? Which one and why? My

Billy: 38:47

favorite song on Dick Jr. I start with the Junior is where I go. That was the song that I immediately heard the demo and like, okay, there's not a whole lot of need to do that. You know, we know that we know it's going to be Richard vocal guitar. It proved true even through the recording where we again, we're day one, we knocked out six songs or something like that. Everybody had already taken off, but Zach Ross was still there. Rex was there, Zach, darling and myself and like, what do we want to try where I go? Sure. Let's do it. That was a really cool day for me because it was like I had the regular I had an acoustic guitar that was traditional acoustic guitar. And Zach Ross had what's called a national guitar, which is if you take a 12 string guitar, and you remove all the traditional guitar strings, it sounds like almost like a 12 string, but it's so I was playing the the regular guitar strings and he was playing the 12 string guitar strings. And we played that simultaneously together looking at each other for the whole song that was we did in the few takes and that was super special. I feel like that song enriched was seen in the booth behind us and it was just it was really cool to be able to do like that you'll be able to have a guitar player played the same exact parts just in the is quite slightly different sounding guitar was really cool. I love that horse prize party for the introvert. It's hard to pick but I have to pick one I guess it's about either my wife or my kids. Well, you know

Berly: 40:19

your baby so picking a favorite song would be. It is interesting to hear your story about where I go, though, because when I first listened to that song, I don't do well with like deep emotions. And it just seemed so intimate. It almost made me uncomfortable. And I just always thought it was the lyrics, especially coming from rich. I mean, I'm just saying to hear this story behind it. I feel like that intimacy actually came through on the recording just everything that you described, because it just it's one of my favorite songs on the album. Now I had to kind of get over that. Oh, this is so intimate and so vulnerable. I don't like how it's making me feel. And once I got past that, I'm like, Okay, I fucking love this song. Yeah. But just to hear how intimate the actual recording of it was as well, is really interesting. That

Billy: 41:09

was so important to going in that we kept the integrity of that demo on that softness, and that like that vulnerability just had to be gentle and vulnerable. Yeah. Gentle and vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. It was a huge moment for me. As far as recording, and then the next day, the day two, we tracked day two. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Berly: 41:29

What about you, Zack? Which one? Is your favorite? Or which one is do you feel the most pride?

Zack: 41:34

There are definitely a couple songs on splitting the seams where I'm working on that one for a few different reasons first, because like kind of going into that record. I think like maybe a month or two before we started recording that I think we sat down and chatted for a second got coffee and talked about like, what's like coming up next for you guys. Okay, I kind of threw out the idea of like, oh, I mean, you guys have so many awesome studio albums that I feel like the next big moves should be like to do a focus record or a genre record or something like that, like do a live album or do like, like nothing but keyboards or nothing but strings or an all acoustic kind of record or something like that. And it just kind of like said, well read, you should mention it. We have a live album that we just recorded, you're going to be mixing that. And also after that we're talking about doing an acoustic record. Okay, great, awesome. I was only a fan of Louden Swain, like for fairly recently, like I didn't know the songs before we jumped in the studio and started recording that record together. And so I hadn't heard a lot of the older songs. So when we were recording acoustic versions of a lot of the older Swain songs. It was my first time hearing though interesting, like there were songs I didn't listen to until after the record came out. And like I hadn't heard the original versions of some of them. I was really going off of my gut. I was like, Yeah, this song, this song needs a string section. Let me demo out like you know what the string arrangement could kind of look like I'll play like a bunch of Mellotron parts. And we'll layer all those out and put like weird synthesizers and stuff in the backgrounds of songs. And like I'm hiding gags that I think are funny, a lot of those songs do like the ain't nothing but a G thing already in California nation. I think that's hilarious. I love that. We got my friend who arranged strings on it my buddy Michael Parnell from Studio City. He's awesome string arranger and writer and film school stuff. And he knows awesome gorgeous string arrangements. But that was so hyped up, like, got to have that be sort of like the finishing touch on the entire record. That was just a really fun, like, very creative little window of time

Billy: 43:32

reading the seams, it will go down as probably one of my favorite albums ever. Wow. Okay, with with swing, because I feel like there was no pressure. We know that like the songs as they were, were as good as they can get with a full electric band. You don't I mean, so. If we could somehow capture some of that energy that's already we already have a blueprint, you know, and make it an acoustic form and kind of make everything kind of work within that acoustic world. For me, it's like it's one of those things again, it's like taking the song and changing the vibe of the song to fit the album. You know, and I think being able to sit there in the room with everybody and you're like Okay, let's try it this way. Try that way. It was just I love how it came out. And it's still to this day, my favorite we've done this because it sounds a bit sauce. Sounds great. Yeah,

Berly: 44:26

I actually don't think I've heard that one. I'm excited now I'm gonna have to go look that one up. Yeah. Because that I'm new to coming back to the podcast and our audience, we have quite a few people who of course have watched the show supernatural love the show Supernatural but a lot of our audience have never gone to a convention. There. They're too scared to go too intimidated to go don't want to travel to go to one What have you when we were watching the show? Oh, we realized very quickly when we started it. Oh my gosh, like a couple of years ago now, how important music was in the show. I know we did it. And when we started in 2022, the showrunner Eric crypkey, who created supernatural said that music was essential to the TV series. And, you know, again, we picked up on it right away. But I would say when we went to our first convention, which was Dallas last year, we were both surprised how important music was at the convention experience. We just heard like, Oh, you got to go to the concert. And we were what? What concert? And whenever you guys were up on stage, Billy, like, multiple times, we were like, What are they? What are they doing? Are they gonna we were watching you guys. Like trying to figure out what was going on. But what are they going to stay? Oh, they're they're doing rim shots. What's what's happening? It was just completely immersed into the entire convention experience music. And that really surprised us. But what is the history behind that? Billy, how did that get going? Because from my understanding, that wasn't always the case. Quick history.

Billy: 46:08

Eric crypkey. What is so right with the music that they selected for that show? I mean, it's actually what drew me into the show before even like, I remember it was like 2005, or something like that. I had just met Louden Swain. I just met my wife. And we would watch supernatural because I love the music. I love Kansas, like look, the soundtrack was so like, right up my alley. It's like 70s Rock. So I was like, Oh, great. This is a show I can actually watch. So we watched it up until I think like season five. And then Rob. I'm in love this way. Now. I was like, Hey, I got cast in the show Supernatural. Like, Oh, that's awesome. I know that show X is pretty cool. You're finally going to be in a show that I actually watched. And And not that I wasn't a big fan of Felicity. So it was really exciting. And he's like, so I'm getting on the show. I'm like, I think this could be cool. Because there's a lot of synergy between what we're doing as a band and what they're playing on the show as like, I feel like rock is rock and we kind of our vibe is kind of fits the energy of that show. And then a few months pass after this is episode airs. And he's telling us about these conventions and how they have these fan conventions that people show up to the meet the actors on the show, and they might want to ban at the when they come through LA. So that was very, like our very first convention deals like 2013 or 14 in Los Angeles. And we did the show on a Friday night. That's where I met Richard Speight, Jr. For the very first time, he's like, Hey, I'm doing this karaoke thing. You gotta come check it out. We're like, okay, about a fo your carry on. But it was really fun. And then, like, time went on, and conventions still continue to happen. But we weren't, we're not. We're never a part of it. I think creation ultimately, later approached Richard Speight. And I'm like, hey, we want you to host these conventions. When we formed we we kind of changed the format a little bit want to have hosted, it was like, only hosted if I get to bring the band, so that he pitched us, so I should want to carry over the heat. And it was great. Because next thing you know, we're being flown to Las Vegas. I was like, under the impression that we had to learn, like 70 cover songs, but it really was just like little snippets of songs that I really went way over prepared. And I'm happy I did because now I have all the songs that I can play. But yeah, so that was pretty much the first show is like a Las Vegas Convention. And then as we're packing up, they're like, Hey, do you guys want to continue this throughout the rest of the tour for the year? And I'm like, Well, I gotta check on my family. I don't know how this is going to impact my wife. You know, she's got a kid kids, you know, we got kids. As I'm packing on my gear like this give me give me like a day so I could talk about it with the families that have a family. As I'm packing up my gear on stage I hear over thing are you guys excited for Louden Swain, they've signed up for the rest of the year and like she goes for it. So thankfully, she's totally supportive of it and love the idea and we've been doing it ever since. And it's been awesome. It's been great having Rob and rich both kind of emceeing the whole event for the whole weekend. And yeah, I think the initial year, rich pitched us as the elastic waistband weren't Louden Swain. A year one thought we had to be this cover band. The elastic waistband. We're almost like a 70s retro, like suits and stuff was really terrible. Yeah, Mark Shepard. Mark Shepard was really instrumental in going You guys gotta check that stupid and it was hugely instrumental on this show on Saturday nights growing to what it is today. Mark Shepard was a big part of that. He was able for us to be identified as Louden Swain. I find it loud.

Berly: 50:01

Okay, so you said you you weren't an original member of Louden Swain, Billy, did I hear that correctly?

Billy: 50:06

I was not no. Louden Swain was together like 40 years before I joined them. They're like, they've been together forever.

Berly: 50:13

What happened there?

Billy: 50:14

I don't know. I think they originally had another guitar player. And for whatever reason, they just decided that they were going to go separate ways. And they stayed as a three piece for a couple feet, like 10 years, I think, Oh, wow. And released a couple albums as a three piece. And then I joined them on after suit and tie in as a brand new hurt was being bitten was helping my brain the first time when I was okay.

Berly: 50:43

Yeah, I just always assumed that it always been the four of you.

Billy: 50:46

Yeah. Now those guys met there. They met in college way back then.

Zack: 50:52

So, yeah, this is what I mean, when I said there's like, a reason why I haven't heard a whole lot of these songs because they've done a lot. There's a lot of, wow,

Billy: 51:04

it's nice when we do setlist for shows where we're doing like two sets. I'm like, Oh, we could do. We don't have to do any reasons.

Berly: 51:12

I had no idea. Yeah. Okay. And then one more thing that I wanted you to talk about, Billy. It's not just the concert anymore, you guys are offering a lot of additional experiences, which are music centric. So I don't know if you wanted to, yeah, give those a little shout out. let our audience know, potential con goers know about these other things.

Billy: 51:36

Well, but convention weekend is just full of so many fun things. You could do this karaoke on Friday night, which is free to everybody which DJ hosts. It's super fun. I mean, it's it's super successful, super fun. A lot of people really enjoy it. And on Saturdays, we have the Saturday Night Special. Let me back up on Friday is rich and I are going to continue to do our spotlight. So that's where Richard and I kind of host this event where we talk a little bit about the recording process, we go into demo versus final product and how that kind of how that came to be. Maybe we'll play a song or two we don't know. But it all depends on how the how the mood going. You know, if someone asks a question about this, maybe we'll pick up a guitar and we'll start playing that song for you. That's really fun. I really enjoy that. So the spotlights are been a big highlight for me, these convention weekends just because I want to get to hang out with Richie is super fun. And we get along really well. And we get to talk music, you know, in answer a lot of great questions. And then Simon especially as I was saying is always evolving. It's always getting better and better. I feel like after every show, I go out I don't know how we're going to talk that way. We seem to somehow do it. At least from my perspective. I love that at events with nothing. Imagine always great talent. You know, Briana Buckmaster, Kim Rhodes, Mark Shepard, I think is going to join us on the tour this year. And then Sunday morning we do a Louden Swain, acoustic jam where we play a lot of the songs acoustically, which is always fun because we never go in with a plan. It's always it's like okay, I'm looking at Rob's lyric sheet and his list. I'm like, what about that one is like, that's mind boggling. Michael Jackson's I'm like, well, there you go. So is that sometimes we'll just pick a letter, which is going back to the point like we have such a huge catalog of songs. We're like, let's pick songs from the L. So we'll pick we'll play all l songs from the Louden Swain catalog. And it's it's just a blast. And a lot of times, it's like one of us will not have any clue how the song goes. Or leaning on the other guys to get us through trying to play through the song. It's a great, fun thing. And then we're in talks with Richard and Jason. We don't know anything official yet, but we're trying to do something where we can perform more. Richard Speight Jr. Songs sometime on Sunday. If that's possible, we'd love to carve out an event for that. Because, again, his album, it's so great. We're so proud of it. And we want to get, you know, in front of people who want to perform it live, and maybe we do it in a really cool acoustic setting or something that, you know, that's an idea that we've been falling on. Hopefully, you've been, you know, get that book soon. I would love to do that.

Berly: 54:19

We were we were both on the lounges set that you and Richard did. And we heard you guys talking about that. We both got very excited about the idea of that. Yeah, it would be great. We're hoping that you guys make that happen by Austin. Yeah.

Billy: 54:31

Well, that's the hopes that is the house. Yes. It's gonna be a busy, busy weekend, because we're

Berly: 54:35

not looking forward to.

Billy: 54:37

Are you going to the show on Monday,

Berly: 54:39

the show on Monday, the radio company show we did not get tickets for that. So as of right now, we're on the waitlist.

Billy: 54:48

I know how many so not so fast. Right.

Berly: 54:51

I woke up in the morning and a few listeners had sent us the link. By the time I clicked on it. It was already Wow. out so Got it. So it sold out overnight.

Billy: 55:01

You got Mike, you might stream that one as well. So,

Berly: 55:04

speaking of shows, on Monday nights, this episode will probably publish on Saturday, May 11. Is there anything happening in the weeks to follow this episode of which our listeners may be interested, Billy?

Billy: 55:19

Well, yes, we actually have a show in New York City with Louden Swain on Monday after the jersey convention, we're going to be playing at the mercury lounge. It's an Early Show. So I think doors are something like 6pm. And which is nice, because you know, we get to go home and get some rest. Because those the shows on Monday are always fun, but they're always like, right after a long convention weekend where you're just like, but we always get up the energy and we have fun. But yeah, but Mercury lounge. Monday, May 20. And my buddy from my hometown friend from Fairfield, Connecticut, Dylan Connor is going to be open show for us. We tend to be able to play with him again. And yeah, it's gonna be a great show. Super fun.

Berly: 56:04

Thank you guys. Thanks so much for your time. We really appreciate it. Hey, you guys

LA: 56:08

both have really good hair too, by

Berly: 56:09

the way. No, they look the same our hair stylists. Yeah. Before we got Yeah. Gorgeous. Thank you guys again, we really appreciate you. Thank you safe travels, Billy.

Billy: 56:23

Thank you. Nice to see you.

Zack: 56:26

Yes.

Berly: 56:29

I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation. Like

LA: 56:31

I'm terrible at describing anything. But the way they were describing it was like, Okay, I get it. But I would, if I were in that position. I don't think I could so eloquently describe

Berly: 56:41

that, right, especially when so much of it, like they were saying is based off of a feeling right or a vibe, and yet, I feel like they thoroughly answered every question. Oh, yeah, a ton of information. And if you guys enjoyed that conversation, definitely we recommend that you go to the spotlight with Billy and Richard, that's when they can talk about things like this and provide a little bit more in depth information as to how it's all made. LA and I have both attended the spotlight event and we really love it. And that was part of the inspiration for this interview. So ZACHARY And Billy have worked on multiple albums together, but of course the most recent albums which have released our Billy Moran solo album, surprise party for the introvert and Dick Jr, and the volunteers fistfights on Hangouts. Both albums are available on Apple Music Spotify, essentially anywhere that you can stream music, but even better, you can buy the physical album. So go check it out on our link tree purchase a physical album, and if you go to a convention, potentially get them to autograph the album for you. Nice little keepsake and some great music. And you'll be supporting local artists and musicians. So go for it. We do have a patreon now, so if you're interested in Early Access, voting on bonus episodes and more, check it out. To close it out. We're going to shout out our Bobby members from our Patreon Alicia Wooten basket

LA: 58:14

of daisies, Ellen McCarthy, Emily Williams,

Berly: 58:19

James de Franch cat, Leticia Pierce,

LA: 58:24

pet mom,

Berly: 58:25

Puppy mom oh six,

LA: 58:27

Shannon Selden,

Berly: 58:29

and the Risa Hampton. Thank you all for supporting us through Patreon. We really do appreciate it. You help contribute to the coverage of our out of pocket costs for the podcast and just make things more fun. So thank you guys so much for your support. And with that, cheers. Thank you for listening to denim wrapped nightmares.

LA: 58:53

Follow us on Twitter or Instagram, leave a review and let us know how we can get involved in the fandom. This

Berly: 58:59

was fun. Church

LA: 59:01

in only this bitch