Shut Up, Dr. Phil (7x5)

Berly and LA recap the season seven Supernatural episode, Shut Up, Dr. Phil.  Over drinks, they'll discuss lore, gore, and what they adore about the Winchesters and their adventures. Now, let's get tipsy!  CW/TW for violent and lewd commentary; listeners beware! 🔞

Summary: In the "Shut Up, Doctor Phil" episode of Supernatural, Sam and Dean investigate a series of gruesome murders linked to the Egyptian god Osiris. They discover that Wendy Goodson and Carl were killed due to Osiris's judgment of their past mistakes. Meanwhile, a mysterious witch, Maggie, is revealed to be behind the murders, seeking revenge on her husband, Don, for his infidelity. The Winchesters manage to counsel Maggie and Don, resolving their marital issues and averting further violence. They also confront a Leviathan, Nacho Cheese, who is later neutralized by Don. The episode explores themes of marital strife, witchcraft, and the complexities of supernatural justice.

Resources:

• https://supernatural.fandom.com/wiki/Shut_Up,_Dr._Phil
• https://stories.uq.edu.au/art-museum/2019/witchcraft-fact-or-fiction/index.html

Transcript

Berly: 1:11

Ella, welcome to denim wrapped nightmares, Tipsy exchange Podcast where we explore the supernatural series, episode by episode,

LA: 1:20

over drinks, we'll discuss the lore the gore and what we adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.

Berly: 1:26

I'm Burleigh, and I'm a new fan of the series. I'm

LA: 1:30

LA, and I'm here along for the ride. Now let's get

Unknown: 1:36

tipsy. Hello, LA,

LA: 1:37

hello Burly. Well, on last at the last episode, it was titled defending your life, Sam and Dean investigated a string of gruesome murders and discovered the Egyptian god Osiris. Guest Star Ferran Tahir, is behind the deaths. The vengeful God has been putting people on trial for their past mistakes and killing them if found guilty. Osiris hones in on Dean's guilt and decided he's the next stay on trial. Sam steps in as Dean's lawyer, but both brothers are unprepared when Osiris calls an unexpected witness. Joe,

Berly: 2:17

it was cute. I liked it. Yeah, today's episode is called Shut up, Doctor Phil. It's the fifth episode of season seven, and originally aired on october 21 2011 we start out in a hair salon. Realtor Wendy Goodson is on the phone. She's doing business. She's talking somebody into No, no, no, girl, that was not your dream house. That was his dream house. Put that shit on the market. It's just like, I'm so good.

LA: 2:45

At first, I thought she was a, like, a divorce lawyer, the way she was talking, yeah? But I was wrong.

Berly: 2:51

I could see that, yeah. I mean, she was, she's making, she's gonna get that commission, making sure she was gonna get that check. And her hairstylist was just like, Yes, girl, yes, you're so good. Now sit down, shut your mouth, and puts her under one of those hair dryer things. Dean, what did he call it? A beehive hair dryer thing later in the episode? Which? Good description. Good description. It is funny that he called it a beehive thing, and then by the end of the episode, he was fighting bees. Oh, look at that. Oh, look at that connection. I just made it. I just made the connection. Anyway, Wendy is sitting under there. Look at flipping through a magazine, and she is like, starting to fuck with her shirt, obviously getting uncomfortably warm. And then she gets uncomfortable enough that she tries to take the hair dryer off her head, and it won't budge. And she's trying and trying and trying. And then the hair dryer is getting so hot, it's like burning her hands. She can't put her hands on the hand dryer anymore. So then she tries to slide out of the seat, and something like sucks her back up into the chair that was crazy. I would have been flipping out already. I would have been losing my fucking mind that something just sucked me back up into this chair. But she's just kind of like, Oh, okay. And still is trying to figure out how to get the hair dryer off of her head. We decided that she was just so uncomfortably hot that she was panicking at that point already. Oh, yeah, you know. So she's screaming for Chris. That's her hairdryer guy, Chris getting here. Oh, my god, yeah, she ends up getting fried. Oh my that was bad. Yeah, I bore Chris.

LA: 4:23

Oh, when he took the thing off of her, yeah? Like, a clump of her hair fell out of it in the aluminum foil. Yeah, yeah.

Berly: 4:30

And she just was like, we see her feet kick in, like, she kicked off her shoes whenever she was getting fried and everything. It was good. It was a good opening scene. And the Chris guy, whenever he first comes in there, he's like, Wendy and like, comes over, lifts off the thing. And he did a good scream for for a guy, like, normally, when you think of screams in a horror movie, you think of Scream Queens. But his was good. Oh, we got supernatural. Inky. Inky. Inky, I still don't know what noise I'm gonna do. We cut to the motel. Dean is sleeping, but he's not sleeping well. He's having nightmares. He is seeing visions of Castiel being evil and then taking himself down into the water, he is seeing visions of Sam where he was hallucinating and didn't know what was real or not, and was shooting into the air. And then he's finally seeing himself taking out Amy. And I said this in the last episode when we were watching it, but I didn't notice in the girl next door when Dean stabbed Amy that her eyes changed. That was really cool. It was I didn't notice it either. Yeah, I didn't notice. I noticed it in the last episode and defending your life, but I didn't talk about it. So I was happy they showed it again, because that was a really nice effect, and it deserves to be mentioned. Yes, I liked that a lot. Well, Dean jerks himself awake, and he sees that Sam in there. So he gets up and pours himself some morning whiskey. Think it was whiskey. It was a little dark. He gets to work, starts looking for a case, because, lord knows he needs to be distracted. He finds out about two bizarre deaths in prosperity Indiana, one of which is poor. Wendy from the beginning, and another one, which is, I don't remember the guy's name, but he was boiled alive in his hot tub. It

LA: 6:17

was Carl.

Berly: 6:17

Carl, yeah, that's right. We see Sam running, jogging past the window, and he comes in and he's all sweaty in his workout gear. Dean's like something better be chasing you. What are you doing? Running? What are you doing taking care of yourself? Lance Armstrong, and Sam's just like, that was a bicyclist, not a runner, and it's healthy for you. Then he tries to ask Dean, what's up with you? Because he sees the glass of alcohol first thing in the morning, yeah, Dean immediately gets defensive and snappy and tries to be like, listen, like, Okay, you're all cleansed, and you're all the new you and everything, but I'm still the same old me, so maybe you're looking at me through a different lens, okay? But, like, nothing's changed. I'm being me. And Sam was just like, Okay. Was like, Don't say it like that. And he was just like, okay, it was really cute. Because, like, Dean, like, even you have to realize you're being really snippy. Yeah, and then he makes a joke later about PMSing. Um, hello, kettle,

LA: 7:18

right.

Berly: 7:19

Come on. Next we see something. I admit I kind of had forgotten about Mr. Nacho Cheese. Leviathan. Oh, Chet. Chet is still hot on their trail. I forgot about Adam too, and Tasha, he's just like, on the phone, being like, Yes, I'm tracking Winchesters, and I keep dead bodies in my trunk, just for skis, just for just for funsies, you know, like, I'm not eating him or anything. He's just there. And then I was like, these leviathans could eat, just completely eat people. Like, why are you leaving evidence around everywhere, right? Like, they just do not give a fuck. These leviathans do not care. I mean, they care enough that this guy's hunting down the Winchesters, but whatever. So it's yet again, we have this mysterious boss that the leviathans are reporting to. You know, is he talking to Edgar? Is he talking to somebody else? Like, who knows? Sam and Dean, meanwhile, make their trip to prosperity, and they go to interview Wendy's sister, who's explained that she's had to tell the story so many times and she's so tired of telling it. And Sam's like, Yeah, I know, I'm sorry, but we each have to do our own investigation. Did anybody hate her? Like, who hated her, and her sister's just like, Oh, are you saying you think that this wasn't an accident? And no, no, but who hated her? Oh, that was funny. She was a beloved, upstanding citizen in this town. Nobody would have possibly hated Wendy.

LA: 8:48

But, I mean, she did have an affair with another man, right? We

Berly: 8:51

don't know that yet. I know, but still, I mean, and obviously her sister didn't know, or her sister knew, and she's keeping her sister secret still,

LA: 8:58

right? Just saying she's not that great, right? And

Berly: 9:02

I'm sorry the way she was talking about that woman after she got off the phone with her, I don't think she was the angel you're painting her out to be sis. I mean, I'm not saying she was a bad person or anything, but come on, it doesn't seem like Wendy was a saint, you know, right? A fair aside. Another key tidbit that Sam picks up is that Wendy did not know Carl, the architect, apparently, no, according to her sister, according to the sister, yeah, that's what the sister says. We find out later this is incorrect, but at the time, they aren't thinking there's a connection between the two victims. Dean is at the salon, and it was so funny, when it cuts to the salon, it just shows the hair stylist just standing there with his arms crossed. I totally thought it was going to be Sam who was at the salon, and that the hair stylist was going to be jealous of Sam's hair. Oh my god, just because the way he was standing there with his arms crossed, he looked pissy. And so that's just the immediate conclusion I jumped to, was he is so jealous of Sam's hair right now, and there's going to be some joke about how Sam just uses three in one, shampoo, conditioner, dandruff, something, or whatever. And that's it like. That's totally what I thought was coming. Wow, I was wrong. Yeah. Dean is in the salon, and the guy is telling him what went down, all the safety precautions that are in place for this machine, and essentially that what happened to Wendy shouldn't have been able to happen, right? Dean is looking around the baseboards and then the corners, the guy says, yeah, the inspector's already done all that. Dean's like, Oh, that's great. Good job. Good job. And he finds this tiny, little weird coin that's shaped all funny. It looks ancient. You can tell it's really old. So he takes that with him back to Sam, and it's just like, found this. Don't know what it is. Don't know if it means anything, somebody could have happened to have just dropped it there. But obviously, this ain't just a penny, you know, like we should keep, keep this in mind as something that was found at the scene. I did forget to mention something that ended up being kind of important, as Dean is talking to Sam about this coin on the phone, just on the phone with. First, he pauses after a woman passes him and, like, looks around. I totally thought he was checking out the chick's ass, because he was talking about how I'm just telling you what I observe. And so I thought it was, like a joke there. And I was just like, Oh, God, Dean's being a creep again. He hasn't been a creep in a while. And then I rewound it. And I was happy I rewound it because I was like, Oh, he's not looking at her ass. I wonder what he was looking at. We find out later, what he was looking at was the bench that was sitting right there. It had an ad for Wendy's real estate company on it, and Wendy's face was on the bus bench, and there were dead plants all around it. So it was something funky that he was just kind of like, What the fuck is this like? Not connecting anything just yet, but that does end up being important later. Oh, also, he pops into the liquor store real quick before he heads heads back to go meet Sam. Of course, he does gotta replenish his resources at a construction yard. We see a gentleman saying goodbye to his crew. Have a great day. Work. Day is done, and he's loading up his truck. Then he decides, before he leaves, he's got to take a leak. So he pops over to the Porta Potty. And I immediately was just like, Oh my God, I don't want to see this. And Ellie said, what? And I was like, I do not want to see a death by port a potty. Yeah, I was like, That be disgusting. I don't want to see it. So they didn't do that. But what they did was still pretty fucking gruesome. A nail gun turns on in the bed of his truck, and it's not plugged in. Like, we can see that the plug is just sitting there. It's not plugged in, but it turns on, and then the nail gun gets up and floats over, and we see the cord, the extension cord, or whatever it was, it was kind of like snaky, like, kind of eerie, like a snake going over, and then it's just floating at like, face height, eye level, I guess that's what it is, eye level, just floating outside of the door to the Porta Potty, just sitting there. And as soon as the door opens, the guy, his name's Dewey, sees it, and he's just like, the fuck, you know, shocked, obviously, who wouldn't be. And then the nail gun, it like moves, kind of like, it's like, a Yeah, I'm measuring you up or something. I was like, what? And then it starts firing away just all over his body. His arm gets stuck to the back of the Porta Potty. There was one in his cheek. The makeup on it was really good. It looked real, and it showed the back of the Porta Potty, so you could see all the nails coming through, and like blood starting to seep through. It was gruesome. And then it like eyed him up and down. And then it shot two more times. And based off of where we saw the nails come through on the backside of the Porta Potty, we knew, like, Oh, fuck. That just went through his eyes. Gross. Well, it was really gross. Like, we thought that was it. No, like, later on, they decide to show us the aftermath that was gruesome. Before that, though, the sheriff gives Dean The Lowdown. And I was like, I think that was Dewey's husband or boyfriend, because he knew a lot about him, like, even though he was asthmatic, yeah. And yet again, we have this gold standard role model citizen who's just so wonderful and the pillar of the community, yeah, that's what he said. And the sheriff said that they're a small community, and so that's why he knew so much about them. And I don't know. Tighten it. I think they were boyfriends. You never knew. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Dean goes to meet Sam in the office for this construction company. Oh, Sam informs Dean as he's walking in and like another Epstein exists and he found another coin in the Porta Potty. I forgot about that. He did find another coin in the port a potty. So we've got two victims, two coins. I don't think they said they found a coin at the hot tub. Guy,

LA: 15:10

no, because they they're the ones that are finding them, yeah, and I don't think they went to that scene, but, um,

Berly: 15:16

but Sam has been going through Dewey's emails, and he tells him, uh, yeah, all three of these victims are connected. They have all been working together on some sort of construction project. There's a bunch of heated emails back and forth, and then they just stopped a while back. So I don't know what happened. It fell through, and they figure out that in this group, there was a fourth person involved in this retail construction project, Mr. Don Stark. Because they're thinking, okay, Don is next. He's the one in the group. He's the last man standing, either he's the one doing this, or he's next on the list. So let's go talk to him. They go by this building where there's like, a commemorative, like bust outside the building, because he apparently helped build this town, and it didn't look a whole lot like him. I mean, I guess maybe a super, younger version of him, it could. To have some similarity to it, but, yeah, whatever. And there's dead plants around that too. And that's when Dean says, ah, ah, connection. We've got the coins. And there are also dead plants like that around Wendy's bench. So we definitely need to go find Don I'm thinking that this, this is an issue. While they're talking about this. Dean takes a flask out of his coat pocket and takes a swig, and Sam is just like, Are you fucking kidding me? We're on the job. And Dean snaps at him, we're always on the job.

Unknown: 16:42

It's not wrong.

Berly: 16:44

Bobby gives them a call and lets them know that the coin is a Romanian do cat, do sit do cat. Sure, it's Romanian and it dates back to the 15th century, and

LA: 16:57

it wasn't like Wallach Wallachian, Wallachian or something. They

Berly: 17:00

said a bunch of other words that I did not write down. Do cat. I didn't even get that one. I'm not even sure I'm saying that one, right? We cut away for just a moment, and we just see nacho cheese, Leviathan. What's his? Chet? Chet. We just see Chet driving. He's en route. What I didn't realize until we saw him there was that he was literally going to prosperity to Indiana, like, he was en route. I thought he was going to be like, maybe he was going to find Amy's body, I don't know, like, following them in that way. Like, no, he's, he's caught up to them. Like, that's it. And then I remembered that at the end of that episode where we saw him pour the nacho cheese, I think he did say that he was only a couple of days behind them. He did. How would he have known that they were going to prosperity, Indiana? I guess they're using their credit cards and stuff still. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. Anyway, he's, he's there, like, he gets there before the end of the episode. And I love it. I love how this episode ended. But it's important to know that, like nacho cheese, Leviathan is still he's a coming Sam and Dean go to Dawn's home, and there's dead plants and everything there. They meet with him, and they're talking to him about the project, and he's just like, yeah, it just fell through. And then his assistant pops in, and she's got his dry cleaning, and it's telling him she baked cupcakes, and she's just being cute as could be. Sam and Dean immediately are just calling it's like,

LA: 18:22

a tall, fit, blonde, young, yep, yep. And

Berly: 18:26

he's there immediately, like, Uh huh. And then Sam is like, hey, I really need to take a dump. Can I go use your bathroom? And he's like, of course. And at first I was like, ah, and then I thought, You know what? That does explain why they wouldn't go looking for him. Gross, but good job. It's gross, but it's a good job. Yeah, good job. Good excuse. Nobody's gonna come looking for you. They're gonna tell you where the bathroom is and leave you to it. So Sam goes a snooping around. He goes upstairs and looks in the closet and sees that their giant walk in closet, half of it nothing like there's a couple of broken heels. And then he finds a hex box or something with a bunch of witchy stuff in it, and spells and whatever, Sam's just like, oh shit. So he goes back downstairs, where Dean is still talking to him about real estate stuff. They haven't gotten into the assistant and everything just yet. I'm going out of order here. Sam comes in and is like, so how's your wife? How's that going? We heard that things are maybe not going so great there. And Dean did really good about just getting on board. Just he yes and yes, and Sam, yes, and how is your wife? Mr. Stark, and he admits, you know, yeah, okay, we're going through a rough patch, you know, we're separated temporarily, temporarily. And Sam's just like, Okay, I saw the closet, you liar. She took everything that don't seem temporary to me. And that's when they bring up the assistant and kind of insinuate something has happened. Don Stark is like, No, nothing happened with the assistant. Yeah, I fucked up. I cheated. It was a one time thing. She's obviously mad. You know, we're just taking some time. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Whenever they're walking out, they're like, it's not fine, yeah, they've impaired him to bewitched. They're thinking he's this innocent guy who has no idea that he's married to a witch.

LA: 20:13

Is that when Sam told him to take his wife out to dinner, apologize, grovel. Yeah,

Berly: 20:18

that was funny, they were like, seriously, you need to grovel. Apologize, make up to her.

Unknown: 20:24

She's literally a witch. Yeah,

Berly: 20:26

she's a powerful one too. It's so fun. Dean calls Bobby and is like, All right, we got a witch on our hands. Give me Give me some Mojo. Give me some potions, give me some stuff. Next up, the guys are going to the wife. They they figured out where she is staying for her temporary, I'm doing quotation fingers, no temporary separation, and she's leased out a beautiful house. I loved the driveway and everything. It was a huge house for one person, giant. Yeah. Again, I don't think that she intends it to be temporary, Don Yeah, yeah, good for you for trying to be positive and optimistic, but

LA: 21:00

everything, and it's all in boxes at the other house, yeah.

Berly: 21:03

Dean is in the house, looking around, snooping around, trying to figure out what's going on. Sam has parked the. And Paula out on the curb and has lifted the hood and is just standing there on his phone, pretending like he's dealing with car trouble. I thought that was smart. Maggie comes pulling up in her fabulous sports car. Sam tries to call Dean, but the lines are busy or something. Lines are crossed. Just gets that thing, whatever, and he's like, shit. Hangs up and goes running up to Maggie in the driveway. And I was like, Why didn't you tell her, Hey, I'm having car trouble out here. My phone's dead. Can I borrow yours, like, something like that? No, he comes up as, like, FBI. FBI, I have questions for you. And it's just like, she shit. And she's just like, I'm really busy. Like, I'll talk to you, whatever, but I'm busy. I'm not going to be talking to you right now. And so she's heading into the house, and Sam goes over and pushes on her car to set off the alarm. And she turns around and just looks like, you fucking kidding me. I'm like, hits the button so I we find out later she knew, she knew that he was a hunter, like she she knew, and so she was not fucking with him. She just turned off her alarm and goes inside. Well, luckily, Dean did hear the car alarm get set off, and he got out of there before she came in. But while he was in there, he found in her closet wasn't a shrine. What would you what would you call that?

LA: 22:29

Like a type of shrine, but like, not for, like, worshiping,

Berly: 22:33

taking people out each of the victims, the three victims are on this corkboard, and they have, like this red almost cross, like symbol across them. And the assistant, the poor cupcake assistant girl is in the middle, and there's no mark on her yet, and her ID happens to be right there, which convenient. So Dean takes the picture and the ID, and he doesn't close the closet all the way, but he gets, he gets the out of there. So when she comes in, she goes upstairs to throw her shopping on the bed, and looks over, sees the closet ajar, opens it, see this, sees the picture is gone. And again, we find out later, she knew they were hunters. She knew what they were doing there, so she very quickly figures out they know who the next victim is, and that's probably where they're going. So she gets to work. She happens to have another picture. Good old Maggie is prepared. We find out she's centuries old, like almost 1000 years old. So one would hope that she's good at what she does. Yeah, yeah. She gets that other picture, and she gets to work putting her little concoction together and putting the X across the assistant space and doing her chant. What's the assistant's name? Jenny? Yes. Poor Jenny. Think of that poor Ginny is in her kitchen, and she is just happy as could be. She is making more and more cupcakes. I don't remember what she's making all these cupcakes for, if she's donating them for the art charity or something that's going on later. Who knows. But it's a lot of cupcakes, and she is really proud of her creations. And she picks one up and looks at it, admiring her work, and starts to peel back the wax paper, which, if you were gonna dig in, Jenny, why'd you put it in the paper? Oh, I guess it's in the paper when you cook it. Yeah, everybody here knows I don't bake for shit now, yeah. So she's peeling back the paper and goes to take a bite. And as soon as she takes a bite, we see like blood, like squirt under her face a little bit. I was like, oh, because it was clearly blood, not some sort of filling or whatever. It was clearly blood. And then it's running down her arm, and she pulls it away, and there's this tiny little baby heart inside the cupcake, just beating away, and she scraped it with her tooth or something, because the heart is bleeding as it's like pumping away, just like the Ginny clearly is terrified drops the cupcake is screaming about it, and just Sam and Dean happened to come in, oh no, she wasn't screaming.

LA: 25:08

She was choking. Yeah, choking up more blood? Yes,

Berly: 25:11

oh my god. It was so much. She's like, choking and all this blood is coming out and she's running around. You can tell she's, like, trying to think, like, do I Heimlich myself? Like, what is happening? Totally freaking out. Sam and Dean come in and get the coin and help her out. Ginny is not chill about this. She is screaming after she's been saved. Yeah,

Unknown: 25:30

there's a heart in my cup.

LA: 25:32

I mean,

Berly: 25:33

I would too. I cannot blame her. Cannot blame her. And so Sam and Dean let her know, like, Listen, you picked the wrong Mr. Sister. Okay, you should have kept those legs closed when you were at work. And she's like, Ew, what no Don is just my boss. I don't know what you two are talking about. We are not sleeping together. And they're just like, oh shit. Well, his wife thinks otherwise, and you need to get out of town. What it seems like 500 500 or 600 miles. Ought to do it like, yeah, just get out of here. Maggie, who, by the way, is being. Played by the fabulous Charisma Carpenter from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, is at this community center where Dawn's bust is outside, and she is preparing for this art auction, and she's incredibly excited about it. Clearly, has put a lot of work into this event, and her best friend is there, and I think the friend was in love with her just the way she was acting just like I love you, and touching her every chance she got. Yeah, I think the friend might have been in love with her. Well, we find out that the friend is who let Maggie know what was going on. And I think I actually forgot to cover but who don was sleeping with was Wendy the real estate agent, right? So the reason the other guys, we find out, the reason the other guys were victims, is because one of them introduced Don to Wendy the real estate agent, and the other one helped him cover up that they had slept together. So she felt like all three of them were guilty, and of course, she thought that he was cheating on her again with Jenny, the assistant. Yeah, well, Sue, who is the friend?

LA: 27:17

Okay, I didn't catch her name. I kept putting her assistant, those that her assistant,

Berly: 27:24

her unrequited love,

Unknown: 27:25

yeah? Well,

Berly: 27:28

she was, she was, I don't mean you know what, maybe I'm reading too much into it. Maybe she just really admires her and just thinks she's amazing. And it wasn't romantic at all, just the way she was acting, though, I personally was getting romance vibes, yeah, one sided. It was a little uncomfortable. Yeah, one sided. One sided. Yeah, exactly. And especially, there were multiple times where she, like, would touch Maggie, and Maggie would kind of be like, Okay, well, that

LA: 27:51

that one time she touched her, and she like, looks at her, yeah, like, that's when I was uncomfortable. I was like, oh, that's awkward, yeah. And she's like, You just reminded me, I need to go check on the lady,

Berly: 28:00

the lady fingers.

LA: 28:03

And then she just slowly takes her hand off of her,

Berly: 28:07

yeah, it was giving. That's what it was giving to me, yes, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe it started with admiration, but it did feel like it wasn't a mutual relationship here. It wasn't equals. You know, there is something, something desperate about Sue, yeah, but Sue is who told Maggie what was up with Dawn and Wendy. So dawn comes in to come and talk to Maggie and Sue is just like, oh, hi dawn, and immediately treating him really shitty and calling him a cheater and not being nice, and Maggie comes around and it's just like, I don't know why you're here. I had nothing to do with you being a cheating asshole. Your ego is what's going on here, I'm trying to do this thing that's really important to me, and you couldn't handle it. And he's kind of saying, like, you were absent for a while, like, when, when am I a part of your life? And so they're kind of bickering back and forth, it's all your fault. No, it's all your fault. Yada yada. Well, and didn't

LA: 29:04

he imply, like, the the windy thing wasn't true. He was, like, this whole little thing you have, you made up with about Wendy or something like that.

Berly: 29:10

Yeah, I think he was trying to imply that they made it more than it was, yeah, okay. I don't think he was ever trying to say it didn't happen at all. I think he's trying to insist that, like it was a one time thing, and then he realized he fucked up, and then tried to cover it up, and everybody else was trying to make it seem like this big affair kind of thing. Yeah, I

LA: 29:30

liked when she said there were three people, three people in their marriage, yeah? Or him and his ego,

Berly: 29:36

yeah. I feel like she had that prepared. You know, it was a good line, thinking about it. It had that ready to go. She also tells him whenever he says, Oh, by the way, two FBI agents came by to talk to me about everything. And she was like, Yeah, honey, those were hunters real, real great for being so concerned about my safety, you know, because, granted, he didn't like call her or text her heads up hunters in the hood. That's true, hunters in the area.

LA: 30:04

Well, did he not know?

Berly: 30:05

I feel like we weren't supposed to realize he was a witch yet, and so they but I feel like now that by the end of the episode, we do find out he was a witch. Yeah, I think he had to have no maybe

LA: 30:15

he was just like, trying to be sneaky, if anybody was listening to them, you know, right?

Berly: 30:19

And she just was like, fuck it. They're hunters. They're hunters. And they were hunting me. How dare you. And she didn't care who heard. I don't remember what Don says. Don says something else before he turns around and leaves. So he makes sure he gets the last word. And she said something too, and I can't remember what it was, but there was no way that he could have heard her. But she still makes sure that he hears her. If you know what I mean, he's outside, walk into his fancy sports car, and all of a sudden, there's like a little bit of an earthquake. And Sam and Dean are pulling up to the community center trying to check and see what's going on. So they're seeing all of this and his face on his mount thing out there. What are they called? Bust? Yeah, his face on the bust chips off and, like, falls and shatters, and he's. Just looking at it like, and so we're like, oh, okay, so he knows, he knows she's a witch, oh yeah. And he, like, turns around and she's gone up on the second floor and is just standing there staring down at him from the window. It was so funny. And Dawn is being played by James Marsters, also from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. By the way, I loved them in this role. Yeah, this was cute. Sam and Dean see this, and they see Dawn just kind of standing there by the car, and so they're just kind of watching, I don't think they put two and two together yet that he's a witch too. I think they're just like, oh shit. Okay, she's

Unknown: 31:45

not fucking around. Yeah.

Berly: 31:46

I'm like, All right, yeah. Don is definitely next on the list, and they're actually worried that the whole fucking town could be on the list, because she's they're realizing how powerful she is. Yeah, she could, you know, really mess up everything that it was when they were leaving Don's house that they were like, oh yeah. PMS, while they're watching this whole scene unfold, Bobby calls and gives them the ingredients they need for the anti witch spell, which included chicken feet, but they needed to be chilled. Chicken feet, we find out. It's so weird, but I love that whenever Sam was like, brings it in, and they're like, oh my god, it smells. They've gone bad. They've been sitting in the thing. And Sam's like, yeah. Like, literally every butcher shop had, like, a power outage or something go wrong, like every single one. This was the only chicken feed I could get. So we got to work with what we got. Meanwhile, back at the art auction charity event, Maggie's practicing her speech, Sue is like, oh, because everything's so great. I guess Don has decided he's really pissed off about that bust. Yeah, he did not like that whatsoever, apparently, because he's sitting outside the community center in his car and he's very proud of himself. I imagine he had to have been able to hear her screams or something, but that smirk that he had, oh yeah. Anyway, as Maggie's getting ready, you know she's screaming at the wait staff, people are going to be arriving in seconds. So it's like, literally, right before the event is supposed to start, Don does whatever his spell is to completely ruin all of the art. I thought this effect was really cool. The paintings melting.

LA: 33:29

Also, before he melted the paintings, as she's like, ranting at her staff. She's like, I'm gonna go make a martini. She's got all the time in the world. And she brings a martini to sue, yeah. And Sue pulls out the little stick for the olives, and there's one olive and one eyeball. And Sue flips the fuck out and drops her drink.

Berly: 33:50

Whose eyeball was that? I don't know. World may never know. Maybe it was Carl's. Oh, maybe, maybe, yeah. And then the paintings start mouths, yeah, Maggie is just like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Dawn is doing this, and Sue is freaking out. It's like he rigged all this. What are you talking about? And then things got really bad for Sue guys. Oh, one of the serving trays floats up off the table and goes flying across the room and decapitates Sue like her head just completely falls off, and Maggie is just like, she's just like, irritated. She's not even like, sad or anything. She's like, you motherfucker, well,

LA: 34:31

and I like that, like, right before that, it's Sue being, like, loving on her again. I told you he's a dick, Yeah, but you're It's okay. You're gonna have people, you've got people around you that love you for you, and then her freaking head gets topped off, poor Sue.

Berly: 34:49

So then Sam and Dean come walking in in their street clothes, but flash their badges, and they get let in. No problem.

LA: 34:57

They're like, this small town's not gonna ask any questions, and they're seeing

Berly: 35:01

what happened to sue and what's happened with the paintings and everything. And that's whenever they put two and two together that, oh shit, we're dealing with two witches, yeah, two powerful witches. Yeah, we're fucked. This is such a bad situation. And then as they drive off to go finish getting their concoction together, or maybe they had it with them, I don't remember, we see that nacho cheese. Leviathan is sitting in the car just watching them, stalking them, waiting for his chance. Caught up to him. Yeah, the fellas go to Don's house. Sam is the one who's like, why don't we just, like, talk to them, like, we'll counsel them, you know, we'll try to help them out.

LA: 35:43

They do seem really reasonable, right?

Berly: 35:48

That's gonna go well. But they're like, you know, if they confront each other and they fight and do all this other stuff like this, this is gonna be crazy. But anyway, so they're right. They're right. She does show up and she is there to confront him, and things are getting crazy. They are yelling at each other. They aren't doing any spells or any magic at each other. Just yet, they're just still arguing. Right? The guys come in with their bowl, and they're like, it's our chance. It's our chance. They say this spell, and they like, catch it all on fire and it smokes, and the two witches are just standing there staring at them, and that's like, they're idiots, yeah. And that's when she goes, let me guess, chicken feet. It has to be chilled. And they're like, oh, oh. And good thing. They had that conversation about, why don't we just counsel them? Because that ends up being all they've got left in their pocket, their

LA: 36:35

plan B, yeah, they didn't know they had and I

Berly: 36:40

don't remember when they had this conversation. Maybe that's whenever they decided to counsel them. Was actually in the room as the witches were saying their incantation. I do wish they were a little more in sync with their incantation and what they were doing with their with, oh, yeah, you bothered? Yeah. I just wanted them to be super in sync. This is supposed to be a couple that have been together for 800 years. They were it was still cute, it was still good. I just wish they were a little more in sync with their stuff, like he had his hands over to the side, like he was about to throw a lightning bolt or something at them, like, I don't know what he was doing, and she had her hands out like that. I wish they were doing this. They're doing different spells, but they were saying the same words. Oh, were they? Yeah, they just weren't perfectly in sync. What are their names? James Maggie and Dawn, not the actors, oh, James and charisma. Y'all could have workshopped that a little bit more. And you know what that I am, right? That is whenever Sam was like, oh, let's counsel them. Let's help them. Okay, so they do, and the witches are like, beating up Sam and Dean while they're getting counseled. It was hilarious. I thought it was. Yeah, poor Dean was really getting it. He was getting thrown all over the place. Sam was just choking and falling every once in a while, and then they had the bees come and attack Dean so that he would shut up.

LA: 38:00

I like it when Sam was trying to kind of defend Don she's like, sit down. Do you know what he did? Sit down.

Berly: 38:08

But they end up pointing out to the witches. Essentially, the two of you are powerful enough that you could have wiped each other off the map years ago, and you haven't so clearly you want to be in each other's lives. Clearly you sincerely love each other. And so they talk and they work it out, and that's whenever he finally owns up to Yeah, I fucked up, but it was a one time thing, and she figures out that Jenny was not somebody he was sleeping with, that it was literally just the one in discretion and, or they brought, they did bring up some other stuff. Like, she apparently slept with Columbus because he was, like, 1492

LA: 38:43

I was about to say, like, that's been his only indiscretion when they've supposedly been alive for like, 500 years. Like, I like, good for you, right?

Berly: 38:51

But she, she was like, What was I supposed to say? For all I knew he was gonna sail off the edge of the world like it was out of pity or something. And then he was like, nothing happened with the Medici chick. So I have, it's been a while, but I have another pitch for a self enclosed episode in our hypothetical spin off series. I would like to see the Starks back back in the day. That'd be a good one, that would be a good one, that would be a good one. And their chemistry was really cute. I mean, like I said, I'm giving them a hard time for the chant thing, but, you know, it was a different language. We'll cut them some slack. But I think that would be a really cute flashback episode for us to see, see those two? Well, anyway, they make up, and because of that, they let the Winchesters go. They don't kill them. And because they've got nothing left in their arsenals, The Wiz Chesters gladly accept it and just get, get the hell out of touch. They're like, we're going. So they head back to their motel room, and they're kind of talking about everything. Dean's still drinking alcohol. Sam's still noticing that. Dean's just not acting right lately, and having a conversation, starting to get their shit packed up. Whenever nacho cheese Leviathan comes in and he's threatening them, being like, Oh yeah, I checked you down. He's proud of himself, real proud of himself. Before he can attack them. Oh, Dean shoots them. We do. We haven't seen that in a little bit. We've heard the hunters or we've heard Bobby saying that this is what happens, that the hunters have said, This is what happens, and this is what happened whenever Bobby tried to shoot Dr Gaines. But we haven't seen it in a while. Dean shoots the Leviathan, and black goo comes out, and then the bullet, just like falls out, like it didn't even do nothing, like the bullet was, like, dented in, you know? So nacho cheese Leviathan is just like, Yep, you're fucked. And then Don comes in and casts a spell, and it does, like, this little lightning stuff on him,

LA: 40:42

yeah? But I was like, who's electrocuting? Yeah?

Berly: 40:46

And so nacho cheese Leviathan just goes completely still and falls over, and Don is like, what the fuck was that? So Don could tell it wasn't a human. I thought that was interesting. And the reason Don is there is because he found out Maggie was gonna kill them because she was mad at them, and so he came there to save them. So he got the coins out from under their mattresses, and he. Just like, Yeah, I'm here to save you. Like, we're even you helped me resolve my marriage issues, and you know, I'm here to save y'all. And they were like, what do we do? Like, he was like, I suggest finding a bottomless pit and just throwing that thing in there. I don't know what that is, but good luck guys. Yeah, I love us. He was leaving. Who turned around is like, seriously? Like, bottomless pit and then Don just pieces out. Yeah, the Winchesters throw nacho cheese Leviathan in the trunk. Sam tries. He, like, throws a Hail Mary, being like, dude, whatever's weighing on you, whatever it is you're not telling me. Like, let's talk about it. And Dean's just like, No.

LA: 41:46

Like, how he brought up. He's like, Hey, did you notice how, you know, Maggie and Dawn, they really opened up to each other. You know, did you notice how great that was? And Dean's like not having

Berly: 41:57

this was written by Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross lemming, and it was directed by Phil secrecia gore. There was quite a few Gore elements in this. The one that I had to turn away from was Porta Potty guy whenever they moved that blanket,

LA: 42:16

the nails in the eyes. Yeah, that was the goriest. Yeah, I agree.

Berly: 42:22

But I mean, we got to see the decapitation happen, the eyeballing, the drink, the frying of the woman's head at the very beginning of the episode. I mean, we know whatever there's witches. There was some quote at the beginning of the series where, whenever it's witches, it's gross shit. Oh yeah, remember, I don't remember what the exact quote was, so it could have probably been grosser than it was. But these are old witches. These are classy witches. They are pillars of their community, which is, you know, so I think it made a little bit of sense for the gore to not be quite so heavy, true. I liked that they kept it focused on the characters with just the right amount of gore, yeah. So I thought that was cute. What did you adore about this episode? Well, I loved

LA: 43:06

that the two character or the two people from Buffy were in the same episode. That was cute, yeah, and that they were married. I

Berly: 43:14

think that probably because they did work on the same show for so long. That's probably why they had such great chemistry. I thought the two characters had good chemistry. I thought it was cute. I agree. I liked Prisma carpenter and James Marsters in this episode, and it was just a cute episode to have these battling witches, you know, and marital disputes, salmon Dean saving people by counseling things. It was fun. Well, what about lore?

LA: 43:44

Okay, well, obviously we're gonna be talking about witches, yay. So I've got some this. This article had four beliefs on certain things about witches. So the first one is, witches were actually witches. This is, this is a unique belief, or what? This is just the first belief we're talking about. Okay? How it was written, okay, okay. It says, This one is almost entirely a myth. Oh, during the early modern period, approximately 90,000 women and men were accused of witchcraft in Europe, about half of whom were executed. The vast majority of those accused did not identify as witches, while some did come to think, after being tortured, that they may have unknowingly practiced witchcraft. I'm sure

Berly: 44:27

I didn't know I'm innocent. Yeah, I didn't know. That's what I was doing.

LA: 44:32

A small group of people also worked as cunning people, a similar concept to a village wise man or woman. A cunning man or woman was someone people consulted to heal their illness, to find lost or stolen goods, or to heal bewitchment. Sometimes cunning people could practice for decades in a village before coming under suspicion of witchcraft. Importantly, cunning people were not automatically assumed to be witches. Witches in Europe was instead associated with the devil from whom witches were believed to gain their powers. So that's really nice that they were killing people that were just helping people and healing them.

Berly: 45:11

Good, good practices,

LA: 45:12

guys, yeah, yeah, good on you real um, level heads. We,

Berly: 45:17

we do know. Wait, are they cunning? Are they cunning? Wait, wait,

LA: 45:20

you're healing somebody. You fucking witch. Oh, my God, we do not. We do know that some people in Europe at the time did practice harmful magic. Historians and archeologists have found many examples of dolls and animal hearts pierced with pins. These objects were used to both attack and protect for the most part, though, those accused of witchcraft were accused because of an interpersonal conflict, not because they ever practiced magic or witchcraft.

Berly: 45:50

So like, so, like, oh, not because you're cunning, but like, I don't like her. She's a bitch. You know what bitch? You know what bitch rams with? There we go.

LA: 46:02

Violence against those accused of practicing witchcraft. Witchcraft elsewhere around the world today shares some of the same social dynamics. As in Europe, in Papua New Guinea, for example, those accused of witchcraft do not typically identify as witches, and the latest research in the area suggests that these accusations most often stem from local grievances and jealousies typical. Oh, my goodness. All right, believe two witches were women, yes and no. Don Stark would say No, exactly during the period of witchcraft trials, and you know what to say, no. What? Patrick? Who's Patrick? The Irish witch? Oh, yeah, Patrick. Patrick, well, during the period of witchcraft trials in Europe, women were more more likely to be accused of and executed for witchcraft, shocking, but men could also be accused of practicing witchcraft, and in some countries, they were actually more likely than women to come under suspicion. For example, over 90% of accused witches in Iceland were male. Oh, wow. Damn Iceland, Russia and Estonia also prosecuted more men than women for rich witchcraft. Okay, a

Unknown: 47:12

little more equality.

LA: 47:15

However, for the most part, those accused of being witches were women and England, women made up approximately 90% of the accused in the largely German speaking Holy Roman Empire. This number was 76% Hungary, 90% Switzerland, 95% and parts of France, 76% those are pretty high numbers. Yeah, both men and women were called witches, not wizards, and were often accused of performing harmful magic. Male what is it? Malaficium,

Berly: 47:47

Malleus Maleficarum.

LA: 47:50

Men were sometimes accused of practicing more learned types of magic, such as conjuring demons, but women could be accused of these crimes too. Belief three, Wiccan and pagan traditions continue. This is the tricky one. The short answer is no, but of course, it's more complicated than that. The biggest difference between those accused of witchcraft in the past and those who embrace this label today is that those in the past did not identify as witches. They did not practice witchcraft. They were not any part of an underground religion or movement as mentioned.

Berly: 48:18

They were just that bitch neighbor that the lady didn't like or exactly jealous of

LA: 48:24

terrible as mentioned. Some people did practice harmful magic, but beliefs about witches, Sabbaths and covens were all in the heads of the accusers and did not reflect reality. Well, yeah, modern day Wiccan and pagan traditions are extremely vast and varied, although they do draw on longer tradition. Most Emerged during the 20th century, not the early modern period. Last belief, belief four, the belief in witchcraft ended with the rise of science. This is another tricky

Berly: 48:54

one, a quote I heard. I cannot remember who said it, where I saw it, or anything like that, so I can't give credit. But I saw someone who said that magic is just science we don't understand. Yet. I love that, and I love that.

LA: 49:10

Well, it's like these cunning people who are healing and helping people. Yeah. I mean, that is kind of seems like it was literate of science. So anyway, this says the reasons why witchcraft prosecutions declined in Europe and the specific role of modern science in this decline are contested. But today, most historians argue that legal changes and the ending of torture were more important factors than growing skepticism. That's good for many countries in the 17th and 18th centuries, witchcraft still existed. People just didn't know how to prove or disprove it in a court of law. In fact, European witch trials actually coincided with the rise of modern science in Europe. In other words, science did not simply succeed belief in witchcraft. Many well respected scientists took a serious interest in forms of magic, further challenging the myth that the modern West is disenchanted. Another point to note is that the decline in witchcraft trials did not correspond with a decline in the belief of the power of witchcraft. In fact, witchcraft belief continued in Europe until at least the late 19th century. The belief that science caused the end of witchcraft by disenchanting the European mind has had a huge ramification for how we deal with witchcraft today. It has long underpinned various efforts to end witchcraft accusation related violence in colonial and post colonial texts. For example, European missionaries in the 19th and 20th centuries attempted to teach heathens about natural laws and science as a way to disenchant their superstitious, magical and animistic view of the world. Health officials also attempted to stop people believing in witchcraft, arguing that if they only had a better understanding of science, they wouldn't believe in sorcery. Some even suggested that public autopsies should be reformed on those who had died of sorcery, a way of using science to prove to people that this was not the case. All right.

Berly: 51:05

Well, quote, to close it out, whenever they were leaving. Dawn's house. Dean said it's kind of like Bewitched, you know, Don's Darren doesn't even know it. Lots of laughs until you cheat on your wife. And Sam says, witch reference, really? And Dean said, dude, Nicole Kidman was in the remake. Redhead, hello. Oh, cheers. Thank you for listening to denim wrapped nightmares.

LA: 51:33

Follow us on Twitter or Instagram, leave a review and let us know how we can get involved in the fandom. This

Berly: 51:39

was fun, jerk. It

Unknown: 51:41

always is, bitch. You.