Supernatural Music Extravaganza: More Than Background Music - Creating the Convention Experience

Welcome to episode two of the Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defensive Fandom crossover! This episode dives deep into the sonic soul of Supernatural—from the classic rock that made us fall in love with the show to the music keeping the fandom alive today.

Billy Moran - Guitarist for Louden Swain, Billy was actually a Supernatural fan BEFORE he joined Rob Benedict's band. Discover how a Flash website with a virtual car radio led him to the show, why he had to learn 70 classic rock songs (spoiler: he didn't), and the origin story of the mysteriously named "Elastic Waistband" (RIP to those wigs). Billy shares tales from the road, explains why the tour van's worst seat is forever known as "the butthole," and reveals which Louden Swain song was directly inspired by a disastrous snowy Atlanta tour.

Chris Schmelke - Creation Entertainment's official photographer and the maestro behind those perfectly curated photo op playlists. Chris explains why music is absolutely critical to creating magic in the photo room, how he DJs on the fly while shooting, and why certain songs are permanently banned (looking at you, "Africa" by Toto—sorry Jen!). Plus, learn about his own rock band origins and why he kisses Rob Benedict on the cheek every time he joins Louden Swain on stage.

Key Moments

• The exact moment Billy discovered Supernatural (hint: it involved an interactive website)
• Why Mark Sheppard told them to ditch the Elastic Waistband persona
• Chris's philosophy: treat photo ops like experiences, not cattle calls
• Why the Saturday Night Special is really about celebrating that Rob Benedict is still here

Grab your flannel, crank up the classic rock, and join us for a conversation about how music became the beating heart of the Supernatural fandom—both on screen and off.

Special thanks to Billy for allowing us to feature some of his music. Find tracks and more at https://www.billymoran.com/.

A Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defensive Fandom podcast crossover

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:33

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LA 1:02

Welcome to episode two of the Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defense of Fandom Podcast Crossover. I'm L.A., and this is a quick reminder that we're covering the music of Supernatural. From music in the show to music inspired by the show to music created by actors, cast, and crew. And our first interview represents two of those groups. Billy Moran is known by fans as the guitarist for the band Loud and Swain. Loud and Swain, a California rock band fronted by actor Rob Benedict Benedict? Benedict. Rob Benedict has become a convention staple. Besides playing gigs in music venues across the world, Loud and Swain also performs at each Supernatural convention at the Saturday Night Special. We wanted to talk to Billy because he was a fan of Supernatural well before he started playing convention concerts. Let's get to Billy.

SPEAKER_08 1:53

I mean, obviously the music is what originally attracted me to the show in the first place. You know, um, I grew up on all of that stuff, you know, the the ACDC and Black Sabbath, and you name it. I mean, it was like there was a period of time when I first moved to LA in 2001, and the music had was completely different from when I was listening to back home. You know, I was listening to the classic rock stations, and and I really didn't have any like thing on the radio to listen to. That was the equivalent. So one day I was um just sitting in my office and I was browsing the internet and I saw this website for this TV show Supernatural, and you could change the radio stations. It was like a Flash website when Flash was still around. And you could change the radio station on the dial of the car, you could step on the gas pedal, and you could like turn the wheel. And I remember listening to the soundtrack, going like, damn, that's what I've been missing. You know, it's like this is the stuff that I've been longing for, you know, because it's like there's been a kind of an absence in my life at that point. So I was like, and nothing on TV was really doing that type of music, you know, the classic rock, and you know, um, so it was it was actually kind of very different for me to be like, oh wow, well, this show is actually appealing to me in that way, just straight from the music, you know. Um, so I started watching it. I actually pitched it to uh my then girlfriend, now wife Michelle at the time. I'm like, we should check out this show. It's like I think the the for one for one, I like the music that they're picking for it, and uh, and two, I think it might be kind of cool. So we started watching it for a while. And it was uh it was just like every week we would just turn on the show and listen to Kansas or you know what you name it, you know, and uh we started like really enjoying it. And at the same time I met Michelle, I had joined Loud and Swain, like within two weeks. It was like two monumental shifts in my life at the same time. It was pretty wild. And um and I was playing with Swain and shortly, I mean, God, maybe it was like a few years into us playing together, where Rob comes to rehearsal one day, he's like, hey, I just got cast on this show. You may have heard of it, Supernatural. I'm like, of course I've heard of it. It's like it's got the best soundtrack on TV. It's like it's amazing. And it's like, oh, cool. It's like so, so I have to go and shoot. The problem is, we're we were playing a show in Mammoth, California the weekend he had to shoot. So he was like, I think I could pull off the show still in Mammoth, but I might have to go right from Mammoth to Vancouver to go film the show. I'm like, oh, that's awesome. So he blew out his voice that weekend in Mammoth and like was like really worried about like having to do dialogue and stuff on set the next like that Monday or whatever. Um so but he pulled it off, it was fine. But he's like, Yeah, I could always do like ADR or whatever. So he comes back and he's like, Yeah, so it did the show and it was really cool. And it's like apparently, like they do these conventions, and I know I'm jumping way ahead, but and and he goes, uh it might be kind of cool, you know, if I could see about getting the band into one of those conventions. I'm like, Well, if they like the music that I like, I think we could pull that off, you know. And then kind of the rest is kind of history from there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

It's so much more connected than I thought.

SPEAKER_08 5:09

Yeah. It's pretty wild though, right? When you start thinking about like and then you know, I was uh living, we were my Michelle and I were living in Studio City at the time, and my office was on Ventura Boulevard, and I remember like I was with Loudon Swain, and then I would go to this LA Fitness across the street at lunch break, you know, to work out and stuff, because I'm a huge exercise buff guy. Um and uh I ran into Jared there, and I'm like, what the hell, dude? And and I'm like, so I know and I told him I introduced myself, and like I'm in Rob's band. He's like, oh dude, cool.

SPEAKER_07 5:46

It's like I heard you guys are gonna come to one of the conventions.

SPEAKER_08 5:50

And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I couldn't remember Rich's name at the time because I like I it was Rich who kind of created the whole thing with the having the band at the conventions full time. I'm like, yeah, I think this guy, this other guy is gonna be hosting and stuff, and you know, we're gonna be the house band. He's like, Oh, that's awesome, man. I can't wait to see you in Vegas. We're like, all right, cool. I don't know, it's just it's just crazy when you start thinking about like this how random, but not random, everything kind of felt together, you know, with everything with the music and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Um wait, so when when did you go from Rob was on the show to you're gonna be in a convention? Like, how long was that going?

SPEAKER_08 6:29

It wasn't that long after his appearance on the show where he suddenly had a convention agent, and that convention agent was looking for us to, you know, to perform at these shows. So it was like kind of like as soon as the as soon as his episode hit the air, it was like, oh, okay, this is gonna be different, you know. And I think the first one we've ever done for the Supernatural Convention was in uh Los Angeles at like LAX Airport, and uh they didn't have a PA system or anything. So it was just like they had like a PA for like speaking, you know, but not for a full band. So it was like we really overpowered the PA. It was kind of funny. But that's where we got to meet Rich for the very first time, and um a lot of the a lot of the actors on the show at the first time. I think it was like a Thursday or Friday night show we did there. And uh but it was a blast.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

So was that first convention? Were you still playing the like intro-outro songs for as people are coming on stage, or was it purely just a Saturday night special?

SPEAKER_08 7:24

It was just not it wasn't even Saturday night special at that time, it was just a concert. Um, because at that point they were still doing, they had music at the conventions. Jason Manns was doing a concert, and I think Brian Buckley was doing a concert, and it would shuffle between the three of us uh for like these concerts on like Friday or Thursday nights, whatever, whatever night worked out for the convention. And uh it was way before even us being a house band. It was just like, and then like a months would lapse and we're like, oh, that was fun. We wish we could do that again, you know. And I was like, Yeah, we might be doing one uh you know in Burbank or whatever. So we would do it whenever we they would come to town. The thought of flying us around the the world at that point was just like no way, you know, that's it was ridiculous to even think. Like we we felt that like, well, when they came through town, we would probably be at least considered, you know. And then uh yeah, and then then Rich kind of figured out a way to kind of make it more of a permanent thing, which is and ever since, you know.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

I was gonna say, and the first time, but like the very first one, was that when you were elastic waistband, technically?

SPEAKER_08 8:25

The very first convention with Rich as host was the elastic waistband, yeah. We had to it was funny, I don't know why exactly he came up with the idea, but I think we were kind of like trying to like sneak our way into it, but but but like but also kind of like um embracing this persona of like this house band, this cheesy 70s you know rock band, but was like all rich brainchild, as you would can imagine. And uh I think we did that for about a year until Mark Shepard's like, you gotta ditch the wigs, guys. You know, the you don't need to be as you know going as the elastic waistband. So you should be, you know, using loud and swain. And that's when it was funny too, because that first year, I mean, we would be on stage and Jared would be like, How about the how about the elastic waistband, everybody? And we're like, okay, I don't want to be known for that, you know, so we kind of changed that quickly.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

But do we have any is there any secret merch that was made that was elastic waistband? Is there some vintage merch?

SPEAKER_08 9:30

There they're yeah, you'll see it floating around every now and again. Someone will have like, I think we had a baseball tee um with a photo of us. We had some really funny photos. Um, I don't even know who did the logo. We had this like elastic waistband logo. Um it was cool though, but Bora was my favorite. He was he was um Sir Richard Furlong was his character's name. And uh he had this big wig, this big wig and green suit. It was hysterical. I wish I I I wouldn't be opposed to him wearing that again.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Do you think so? The reason that you did like a 70s rock band style was it trying to play into the music of the show and be like, we're just like ACDC, but like cheesier.

SPEAKER_08 10:14

It wasn't that, it was um I had initially thought like they wanted the band to be that like the soundtrack from the show live on stage. So yeah, we were pulling songs from AC DC, we were pulling, you know, Deep Purple, and and like I'm like, we're gonna have to learn 70 classic rock songs for this show in Vegas. So I'm like, I was kind of a little like, oh man, this is a lot, this is a big workload, you know. And it it was really nice to see, like, oh no, we only had to play like 15 seconds of either of those songs, you know, whatever we decided to play. So that made it a lot easier. Took took the the workload down for sure. Um, but yeah, we knew that it was gonna have to be tailored towards the show because it's like there's that's the connective tissue from seeing it on the screen to seeing it on stage performing, you know, with actors you know being interviewed and stuff like that. I felt like it was very important to kind of have that kind of connection.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Did you or do you feel like Loudon Swain's musical style changed as you started doing more of these conventions, where like you were influenced by them as well?

SPEAKER_08 11:18

I don't think so, because honestly, it's like I've always come at the band approaching the music from the band, for the band, uh, from the classic rock world. So it's like that's always gonna be a part of whenever I bring a song to the band, it's always gonna have the DNA of classic rock. And um, so I don't think it's affected how we write. In fact, there's you know, everyone comes from completely different worlds in that regard. You know, I'm the classic rock guy, Norton's also classic rock guy, but kind of leans more on the 80s rock. Um, Borja and Rob are more like the depeche mode, you know, kind of kids, you know, which is cool because it kind of really kind of adds this really interesting blend, you know, when you're starting to add a classic rock and a depeche mode and in the same room writing a song together, you know, it kind of lends to be some interesting stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Yeah, kids have some genre bending experience. Exactly.

SPEAKER_08 12:14

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the classic rock has always been my thing, and um yeah, and I don't think we've ever set out to write a song specifically because it felt like it was right, because it was on the you know, felt like the show. It was always, you know, you know, Rob would have a personal experience, or I would have a personal experience, and the songs would come from that, um, that place, um, which I think is, you know, I think it's important as a as a songwriter to kind of pull from the heart, you know, as opposed to what we think people want to hear, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Well, let's go say you do have, is it it's the guilty one, right? That is actually kind of the story of like being on the road for the conventions. So it got reflected in an indirect role.

SPEAKER_08 12:55

Well, it it's it's on the road, uh, but it's actually we did a tour. Um we did the tours loud and swain up the east coast, and we were we were playing in Atlanta. I think we did Daddy's Attic, and we were playing, so it's like the tours would kind of coincide with the conventions in a way. Like we would like, if the convention was gonna end in Atlanta or in I think we ended it in Atlanta and we drove to Florida for the convention or something like that. Um, but getting up to that convention, we did a little mini tour, and a lot of the the snow in Atlanta was a really was a real thing, you know. It was like waking up in Atlanta and we couldn't get the car out of the driveway because it was like sliding into the into the person's mailbox for the Airbnb that we were staying at. Uh so yeah, I loved I love that song for that reason because it's like, oh yeah, that was a terrible tour.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Like that was an adventure. We're gonna keep that just like that.

SPEAKER_08 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

So did you keep watching Supernatural after Rob joined the cast, or did you eventually feel too weird now that you knew everybody?

SPEAKER_08 14:01

I also I felt, and I think the episode was called Swan Song, where it was Rob's last episode. To me, that was like the end of Supernatural for me because I've I'm now in I felt like I was in that world in a different way. You know what I mean? Um and I don't know, it's just it's it's it's weird to kind of separate the people that you know from the people that you're watching on television, you know, because it's like I get like very like sometimes it's the reverse for fans at conventions where they have a hard time turning off, oh, that's Dean, or that's that's Sam. I have a hard time turning off, oh, that's Jared, or that's Jensen now, or that's or that's Rob. You know, so to me it's kind of it it throws me off a little bit watching them on screen in a way where I could like actually get immersed in the story again, and if that makes any sense at all. Um so but I did feel like the Swan song was a really great way for me to kind of be like, that was a great chunk of my life, you know. I think it was five seasons or six seasons, something like that. Um and then they continued on, and that and like there's still people that I haven't seen on Supernatural at these conventions, like I haven't seen any of DJ's episode or anything like that. It would it would be kind of cool to to do what Rob and Richard doing where they're doing the rewatch, you know, and now you can kind of see how everyone's kind of introduced. But no, I after season five or that that Swan Song episode, I was just like, all right, that was cool, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

It was a good it gave you a good book end. You felt like there was an ending there. You didn't need to.

SPEAKER_08 15:27

It did feel like the end of the show in a way, you know what I mean? Like that was like it was it it felt like if the show did end at that moment, you know, I think there would have been some satisfied viewers, you know. But I don't think it it was it was popular then, but I don't know if it was as huge as it would have uh as it gotten past that, you know what I mean? So I feel like the more episodes that they aired, the more attached to the show the the fans got and the viewers got. So it became like almost nearly impossible to end it in a way where people would be happy, you know. So I think you know, season 10, like, how are you gonna end it now, dude? You know, you're you got you got 10 seasons of fans. Um, but yeah, that was I felt that was a good ending, Swan Song.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah. Did you feel like well, I guess so all five of those seasons would have been crypto seasons, because I wanted to ask if you felt like the music kind of shifted from the early seasons to late seasons, but you you skipped that part to some degree.

SPEAKER_08 16:20

I did. I didn't, yeah, I didn't um I don't know. I don't all I know that we were placed in some of those episodes later. Um, I know that Worlds Collide was during, I don't know what season it was, but it was when I was watching it.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Season seven, I think it's Slice Girls because they just did on Supernatural Then and Now with Robin Rich. And I was like a song.

SPEAKER_08 16:41

Yeah, Slice Girls, yeah. So that was season seven. So I did watch that episode just because I was like, ah, that's pretty cool. That was the first time we ever were placed in the show. Um, so and then to it like our song cut right into I think it was AC D C um Shook Meal and I was like, yeah, yeah, you should which I was like, that's cool. I haven't had that ever happen, where I was like, my guitar solo is crossing over AC DC, you know, like Angus Young's riff there. So um but that was awesome. So yeah, I think it kind of it stayed true to the show, you know, based upon just that episode. Um having AC DC in it was pretty cool, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah, you get to you're like, I'm gonna put this in my resume for everything I ever do from here on out.

SPEAKER_08 17:24

Like it was look at that.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

This is a real has any of your experience like watching the show inspired any of the music you've written, or has it been very much just like the four of your lived experience?

SPEAKER_08 17:37

Um, you know, Norton had brought a song to the band on the last record called Next to the Light, and and it was basically about um being in that world and living inside of that world when you have like this kind of high energy around the the fandom and around the the the music or around the the celebrity um on the show. Um and I think that was probably the most we've ever tackled as far as the topics from our experiences within the the convention that have actually made it to a song. And I think Rob kind of took Norton's idea and flipped it where it was sometimes you you're next to the light and sometimes it kind of it burns you out, you know, because you kind of you get so enamored with the day-to-day of it all that you kind of you you're you're at risk of really kind of frying yourself out, you know. Um so you have to kind of be, you know, take a step and then kind of collect yourself and um just protect yourself more than anything, that you don't burn yourself out because there's a lot of times where the demand is, you know, when you're doing it, you know, back to back or you're throwing a tour in between two conventions, it's very easy to kind of get detached from reality at home and stuff. So you have to be very careful, like, okay, I need to focus on this tour, but I also make sure that like once this ends, there's life after this, you know. So I think it's very important to kind of take a almost like a bird's eye approach of everything is like this is the big picture, you gotta get to pull out and see the big picture, you know. So I think that's what the that one that's one song that was easily inspired by the the kind of the chaos that you know encapsulates a little bit of that world at times.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Yeah, it feels very much like a pocket universe when you're at the kind of like convention and et cetera, right? That it's just very much its own bubble.

SPEAKER_08 19:37

It really is. And it is, it is, you know, obviously all of our families know each other from you know certain conventions and stuff like that. But when you tap in, it is like you're going into this second life. You know what I mean? It's like this is this is a whole second life that you're you know existing in that you have to, you know, it's it's it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild stuff.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

But do you have like after after a a tour or a convention, do you have like a decompression routine that helps you kind of like reset for the rest of life?

SPEAKER_08 20:06

Honestly, it's just like two days of nothing really after that. It's like it's like it really like it's like I'll do stuff around the house and stuff. I'll kind of tap into to that that life, normal life. But it's um, I don't I don't think I'll pick up a guitar for a couple days. You know, I think I think it's a a little bit of like that was a lot, you know what I mean? I don't want to burn myself out by going. I mean, I'll pick it up when I feel like it, but I'm not gonna like my exercise routines with guitar and stuff like that, and practice routines are I I'm a little more lax when I come back home, you know, from that stuff. So it's not really, you know. Again, it's like if I'm inspired to do it, then I will, but I'm not gonna force myself to play, you know. And so sometimes you need that little break.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

It's like a music weekend where you're like, I just need a couple days off and I'll be back at it.

SPEAKER_08 20:57

It's like it's like going to a concert and then getting in the car and then turning on the radio full blast. You're not gonna do that, you know what I mean? Unless you're like 18, maybe, and but but it was like yeah, there's like even at driving home from the Troubadour, I'm like, just the quiet sounds nice right now. You know what I mean? Just the just the hum of the road, you know?

SPEAKER_03 21:15

So speaking of concerts, what was the what was the first official Saturday night special? Like, how did that get set up?

SPEAKER_08 21:24

That was hmm. Well, it was in Vegas when we were at the Elastic Waistband. We took we took off the the garments and the wigs and makeup, and we uh hit the stage as loud and swaying that Saturday night. So that was the very first Saturday night special. And um I think that the we were still working on a PA that was underpowered, so we had that that challenge. But I think overall, though, the the ingredients were there for what would become the Saturday night special ongoing. Um but yeah, that was when we we went out on the Hit the stage on Loud and Swain. It really confused everybody there that was there the whole weekend. Like, I thought this was the elastic waistband. Why are they? Um, and then I think that's when we really knew, like, okay, we need to continue just as loud and swain, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Can't have that many multiple identities at the same weekend.

SPEAKER_08 22:16

It's a lot, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

How have the concerts kind of changed over time? Has the audience changed? Has I mean obviously you've got better PAs now, so that's great.

SPEAKER_08 22:24

Yeah. Better PA. Um, I feel like the audience, I feel like every two years there's a whole new um group of audience that comes to the show that were where they've never heard of us at all. You know, so there's a lot of like, okay, now we need to kind of re explain what this is and and who we are and and why we're there, you know. So there's a little bit of that. I feel like every couple years um there's like a and then it's like an audience almost like there's there's a lot of consistent people there that have been there since the beginning. And then there's a lot of people that have discovered the show via Netflix or um any of the streaming stuff. So that's a very new audience. And um it's interesting playing for a new audience for a show that we've been playing on for, you know, X many years, like what, 11 years now, I think? 2014 it was our first one. So yeah, it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild to think like, oh, we have to reintroduce these people to us, you know, which is great. You know, it's a blessing, you know, and it's also keep keeps it interesting. It's an it's an it's a challenge that we like to accept, you know, each time.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

So it's like the difference between the culture of the conventions versus the fans, because everybody's watched the same show, but that's it's different.

SPEAKER_08 23:42

Yeah, and I think we got that question at the Troubadour, like what's the like what's the one I think one of the tricky things about playing for a new audience at a convention, and I think there's where we're kind of having to um not I don't want to use the word sell, but kind of like uh I guess share with them what we do, and then if we're lucky enough, we get to do the shows outside of the conventions where they all show up again, and and then we feel like you know, that's a fan, you know, that's a fan of our music, you know. So it's uh it's kind of cool. It's like we have this opportunity to reach new fans at the conventions, and then we see if that opportunity was successful by pulling off a show in, well, Chicago or you know, wherever we may be, you know. Um, so that's kind of cool to see, you know, to see, oh, that's cool, you were paying attention, you know. That's how you kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

We know you're a Jared girl or Jensen girl, but we're very glad you're also allowed to swing girl.

SPEAKER_08 24:42

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Well, do you think that the concerts changed a lot because of COVID as well? Because I mean, I feel like we kind of have all memory-holded, but that was such a different experience.

SPEAKER_08 24:53

That was terrible. Um, yeah, I I I feel I remember the first time we played Medicated after COVID. I'm being like, I don't think we should do the thing with the lips and the spit and this. I think it's a bad idea. I was like, I got really kind of like almost like COVID anxiety, you know. I had like this deep anxiety of doing anything like that that could potentially spread something and become suddenly now, we're a super spreader event, and you know, um, and I think it took a while for me to get comfortable with that again, you know, just just coming out of it. Because it was just like I remember I I would even wear a mask on stage, you know, like it was like it was weird, you know, the first couple times back where we it just it was just it was wild. Um hope we never ever have to relive that again because it was not fun in the slightest. Um yeah, I think I feel like we've gotten as close to 2019 as we could possibly have gotten this year. I feel like it's starting to finally feel like it's it was prior to COVID. Um up until then, there was still like these weird little side, you know, things that would happen. You're just like, oh, there was someone had COVID at the last event, and you're like, okay, well, is that really a thing anymore? You know, so it's like you can kind of you can kind of almost dismiss it in a way. Whereas um I feel like for the first time we're able to kind of just relax into it into the shows more.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

And like have actually have the like pits again and have people be able to like crowd around the stage and make it feel more concerty than being in a hotel, a ballroom.

SPEAKER_08 26:26

Yeah. And then the and then the club shows, they feel, you know, like I remember before COVID, we were do, we would do a couple shows a night, and like whether it be in Austin or and it's starting to go back to those days, you know, where we we we could kind of have fun at these shows outside of the conventions, you know, and not worry about, you know, the club having to have these different policies in place, you know.

Berly 26:50

It's actually not so much a question as it is, I just want to see if this background triggers any of your own thoughts on the subject, Billy. The whole reason that Sadie and I decided to focus on music for a supernatural 20th anniversary special is because in Rich and Rob's podcast, Eric Kripke came on there and talked about how music was one of his deal breaker items whenever he was making the show, that he had explained what kind of music he wanted in the show. And executives originally tried to push back and be like, No, you can't do that. That's not what CW shows have. And we're wanting him to do more current pop stuff, right? And that he said, I guess I guess I'm gonna have to quit. And they were like, Really? You're gonna quit over this, and he said yes. And so just kind of talks about how essential music was to building supernatural. And Sadie and I were talking about how cool it was that it was so essential to creating the show. And as far as creating goes, it's what's continued on after the show. Like the show ended five years ago, and yet y'all are still out here making new music, you know, with between Rob and Jason, creating new musical performers and all kinds of stuff. Um, so that's why we picked music. So I just was curious if that whole thought process triggers anything for you.

SPEAKER_08 28:07

I that's the first I've heard that um that was a deal breaker. I didn't unfortunately I didn't see that podcast, but that's um that's really, really cool uh to hear that because again, it is the biggest reason why I was attracted to the show. And I feel like, you know, maybe I was the minority of viewers at the time, uh, according to you know, probably the WB's, you know, polls that they were doing. Um, but it was absolutely why I watched the show in the first place, you know. Um, so it's really cool to see like that is was a big holdout for him and why that was a big draw for me, you know. Um so yeah, that's awesome. I did I I did not know that, so it's really cool. Um but yeah, it's it's I it wouldn't have worked with any other soundtrack. I'm just just sorry without Kansas playing, you know, carry on or you know, uh it just it just wouldn't make sense, you know. What are you gonna what are you gonna do? Like, you know, Everclear? I mean I it's like it's it's just it I love Everclear, but it's it's it just wouldn't work you know in the same way, you know, as that that music that that really kind of to me the the the the classic rock is just a raw, very bare bones uh approach at music, you know, and it's very almost garage banny and it's it's uh it's very much that. It's it's the people that I hung out with in high school, you know, the like the the the the metalheads or the green, you know. Um it's just that was that that felt very I was very connected to it, you know.

Berly 29:54

And then any thoughts on how, now that you do know it was such a central aspect to creating the show, that music has become such a central thing in the conventions. And again, that so many of you, I mean, look at Dick Jr. and the volunteers, like that would have never existed without Supernatural, just yeah, the importance of music as things have carried on.

SPEAKER_08 30:15

Well, I just think it's awesome to be even a part of any of that, you know what I mean? From the moment that you know we played Mark Shepherd on stage to him turning around looking at Steven's drums and going, oh, you know, and then telling us that he would play drums and me being like, What? And then having a conversation with him backstage afterwards and seeing him light up in a way that I've never seen Mark Shepherd light up, you know, was really cool to experience. And then, you know, just simply getting, hey, sometimes you gotta come and join us on stage one night. And and and he's like, maybe, you know, he was very guarded about that subject for for so long that it was like an uncomfortable thing almost to talk about, you know, until he, you know, started coming around and seeing that we're we were a safe group, you know, we were safe uh in in terms of you could play music and and and and and be you know be safe about it. And um that was a huge moment for me. Um and that's when I kind of knew that I'm like, oh, this is kind of cool. This is kind of becoming bigger than just us playing music on a stage. This is actually um people recapturing their love for music in ways, you know. I'm like, I'm I'm able to kind of be in the front row to watch that. And then watching, you know, Rich Spate, you know, put out records and and and perform. It's it's been really cool to kind of um just be a part of any of it, you know.

Berly 31:45

You and Brianna Buckmaster even put out an album that's a cover of a song from the show. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 31:53

Yeah. That was um uh we we discovered it, we did a what we were doing at the time was called a PBJ tour. And it was Brianna, Jason, I think Paul Corella, myself. I think that was it for the first one. Maybe Hayden Lee joined us on a couple of the shows. But during that tour, Brianna and I would do an acoustic version of Carry On. And she was, I think, staying in LA at the time. I'm like, well, when we get back to LA, we should actually jump in the studio and record that because I think it was kind of fun, you know. And then she's like, yeah. So we did that and like we knocked it out in a day, and it was just yeah, it was really cool that we were able to kind of um capture that moment from the tour in a recording, you know. But yeah, it's it was totally inspired by the show. Um, but I was also I was also a massive fan of Kansas, you know, before all that. So it was just cool to be like, this is awesome, you know. I could do this in my sleep.

Berly 32:47

So the PBJ tour? Did you like being in the middle of that sandwich building? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 32:55

It was quite fun. It was quite fun. Um, yeah, those were those are big tours for me personally as an artist, just to kind of explore my own solo endeavors and things like that. So it was actually really fun. Um just to be, you know, around people that again made it feel safe, you know, like Brianna was super supportive, Jason's always been super supportive, Paul's been super supportive, Richard's been super supportive, Rob's been super supportive. So everyone's been very supportive in terms of uh of the music. So it's it's I I don't know that I would have explored it as actively as I did without that kind of support group around me, you know. So it's it's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Was that tour before or after your solo album came out?

SPEAKER_08 33:43

It was before, I believe. Yeah, I think that one was before. Yeah, that was way before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

So were you were you testing out material on the tour before tracking it?

SPEAKER_07 33:51

I don't know if I did anything. I may have done one or two songs maybe, but then at that point I didn't have a whole lot written that I was really um willing.

SPEAKER_08 34:00

I was more just kind of observing um as a accompanist, you know, like watching Brianna perform in and you know, so that was kind of more of like a discovery phase for me than than kind of testing out material kind of thing. I was just like, oh, how can how can I make this work for me, you know, in a way. So it was like actually it was huge, you know, it was huge to be able to do that. Like watching Brianna kind of conduct an audience in a way, you know, like and command command the audience is really was really inspiring, you know. And just knowing that like it's okay to be fun and and and and not take everything so seriously, you know, which was such a rewarding thing for for us in the band and and this fandom is that we can be kind of the goofy guys we've always been and not have to worry about, you know, necessarily making fools of ourselves on stage. You know, we could have fun.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Everything doesn't have to be highly polished. You're like, we're good, but we don't have to be stressed about that.

SPEAKER_08 34:57

Yeah, we've accepted our you know, our position, so to speak, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

I did, I had a random question because I was thinking about these tours and things, and I was curious if you had any tales of the tour bus that you thought you could actually share publicly.

SPEAKER_08 35:12

Yeah, I don't know that I have anything off the top of my head other than they've been whirlwinds and so fun. And I remember, I mean, one of the tours in Germany, we were doing station breaks, and I had we had um Rob Humphries and um our buddy Tyler on bass and Jason and Rob we were in this uh sprinter van on the you know the Autobahn doing like probably 120 miles an hour. And I I was trying to, I had I hadn't had sleep at all. And that tour I wasn't sleeping well, so I was like taking any moment I can to sleep, but I was like, my head kept falling over like this, like every time because we were sitting up straight, like we weren't able to lay flat or anything like that. It's like I was just like, so I took like uh my like a shirt or uh around the headrest and and I tied around my head and it was like like this. And then I I got some really good sleep there, and then I wake up and Jason's got like photos of people like doing silly stuff around my face. Well I'm like but yeah, there's so many though, there's so many. And you know, one of the one of the trips there was like this really undesirable seat in the back that was like around the gear, but it was like a just enough to fit one person in there, like a small person. Not it, like we couldn't get a Jason in there, so he was like the fault, like I'm not gonna be able to. So it was either Rob or myself, you know, and we called it the butthole because it was like it was such a it was such a not fun place to be because it was just like you're just surrounded by guitars and amps, and and you're just like, okay, you know, hopefully this isn't a long trip. So yeah, the butthole was quite famous that trip. I think I think I think Rob named it that when he was crawling back into it. It's like, oh go back into the butthole. So it was yeah, forever be the butthole.

Berly 37:07

So now whenever considering his role on the boys, that's really I was yeah, it was way before that too.

SPEAKER_08 37:12

So now whenever we have to do like a a car run from uh uh the hotel to the convention, it's always like that back seat is always deemed the butthole because it's like it's a pain in the butt to get back there, and it's just like it's not fun when you're there.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

So most uncomfortable seat. You're like, hey, it's not butthole.

SPEAKER_08 37:30

Where do you not want to be?

LA 37:34

It's LA again. We're trying to keep our hosting chatter to a minimum in these episodes so we can get the good stuff, our interviews. Next up is a man that, if you've attended Creation Supernatural Convention, needs no introduction. But we're going to give him one anyways. Chris Schmelke is the official head photographer of Creation's Convention Circuit. He's the one snapping all the lovely pictures of fans with their faves and making sure he gets the angle just right. He's also the photo op rooms DJ and make sure fans feel like they get their five seconds of joy. Now, our conversation with Chris Schmel.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I've done every single supernatural show that Creation's done since they started. Um started in 2007. I started doing photos in 2004. Um I think I started with Stargate and Lord of the Rings, and Lord of the Rings was always one of my favorites just personally. Um, and being I was friendly with a lot of the actors from the movie, so they were somewhat instrumental in getting me to take over all the shows in the sense that they loved how I did it. They saw a noticeable difference in the fan reaction in their enjoyment of the you know photo op itself. Um really like calling it photo ops, but it's it's how I was always approached it was to make it more of an experience than making it just you know, come in and marching one in single file, like Tuscan Raiders and um, you know, next, next, next kind of thing. Um since I started, that was always something I avoid I wanted to avoid was that feeling of being treated like everyone's the same, you know, just get through and get out and and move on. Um you know, having the power, you know, having the power of human. I had I had the power to make it something much more than just a simple time to just walk in and walk out. Where you know the music is a big part of it because the music is the tempo of the room. The music eliminates anyone needing to communicate next because you can't hear next. You know, there's a reason why the music um, you know, is where it is, and it's to avoid hearing personal conversations that someone might be sharing with the actor, obviously in a short period of time, but um, you know, and even I can't sometimes hear, and it's and honestly, I don't want to hear because that's part of what the room is. When I, you know, when I say the room, I mean the photo album was that it should have been, you know, treated my point of view um as an incredibly special moment for the fan to be there, you know, and the music is part of it in the sense that you know it has to be the right music, you know, it can't be, you know, slayer or anything. You know, it can't be sometimes it can, but um it it needed to just be something that moves the room, you know. I we're not gonna put on like Beethoven unless it's Misha, but um you know, just odd, you know, uh songs that come on. The the the playlists have been kind of curated for since I started. Um not knowing everyone at first. Obviously, music is kind of the introduction. So when I'm meeting someone for the first time, when the fans are meeting the actor for the first time or the 30th time, um sometimes you remember the song that was playing, you know, and that's a bit it's a big way for me to it's kind of cheating in a way because I get to meet someone and immediately get to feel for music that they like or not. And I and then no one's gonna say I hate that music, you know, someone I just read body language well. So if I'm meeting someone and I have a playlist going and a certain song comes on from the 80s, maybe, um, and they react to it and they say, Oh my god, I love the I love this. And I get it right there, I get an idea for you know, to tailor the playlist for them. Um because if they're comfortable, if the actor's comfortable, they're gonna be more engaging with the fan in the sense that they kind of let their guard down a little bit. Um, so the music puts everyone in a place that I feel is better suited for the situation, and that situation could be sometimes something that may be filled with anxiety or just uh you know memories of maybe watching Supernatural with a grandmother. Um so it all coincides, it all connects to each other. Um and I, you know, it's cliche, but I I sometimes say the photo operum is like a the rainforest, and uh because everything depends on each other. You know, I depend on my crew, I depend on the music. You know, when the music is not on, sometimes just for not for fun, it's kind of a high hellish experience, but you know, doing photos without music, it's it's an awkward experience because generally, if you think about what it is, it's going to be someone meeting someone for the first time. Sometimes the fan is a bit overly giddy and maybe you know, kind of just you could tell they're nervous. Um, so the music is a hundred percent critical to what I do. Um, without it, I'd be it's almost crippled, you know, to to not know how to make each other comfortable. I forgot what the question was.

Berly 43:30

I actually I actually up front loaded several questions, but create curating your photo op room.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Wait, wait, but rewind though. What was what was that first question?

Berly 43:41

Uh well the first question was that well, it wasn't so much a question as it was a statement. I was saying that I was talking with Sadie about how you had talked to me about how important music was and I just wanted to I couldn't do it justice.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

I do I do the the photo class sometimes and And and I'll ask, you know, does anyone have any questions? Because I love to answer questions, but a lot of times maybe fans don't have any. So then I end up rambling what I just did right there. Um it is a genuine love for what I do. Um it's a genuine love for this fandom. And you know, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Berly 44:18

Now you yourself are a musician as well, correct, Chris?

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Yeah, I was actually um well, you know, going back to photography, my dad was a photographer in he was enlisted in Vietnam in the uh late 60s. Um I was born in the 70s, so he obviously he was back from Vietnam, but he gave me one of his cameras when I was three. So I was taking pictures of my cats and basically my cat, and that was it. But when I I think I was 16, I started playing bass. In um, we have my friends and I had a band, and then we we played shows in New York. Band kind of fizzled, and then I started my own with two of the guys from the band, and that turned into probably about 10 years of playing shows in New York and in the East Coast. We played C BGB's, we opened for the Libert, we opened for the Libertines at CBGB's, and uh the band that was kind of the breaking point that show, and it was just all it was just a lot of things building up, and it just wasn't as fun as it was, and um the band broke up, and then I wanted to obviously continue doing something creative. I got back into photography because of eBay at the time. I was working at a computer, I was managing this computer company in New York, and I was selling their inventory on eBay, and I noticed I obviously I needed a better camera to get you know just better results for the for this for the stuff I was selling for them. And that was kind of my prompt into digital. Um, that was probably 2002, and then probably right around that time I started doing shoots for friends' bands because I had a good camera now. So I was in still in the scene of you know music in New York, but I was just doing photography for the bands themselves, which led one of the bands posted shots a company in Canada song, and they hired me to cover the independent music awards in New York. And that's when I started doing portraits because it was for online articles with the musicians that were there, and it was a lot of bands that were early day, early starts, but also my first portrait was with Nick Cave from uh The Bad Seeds, and you know he had mentioned after he said that you know he felt very at ease with me, and it was just natural, it wasn't trying to be you know phony about making someone comfortable. It just I think I sometimes have a calming presence and it lends itself well to what I do for on the larger scale. If I panicked, imagine what would happen, it'd be bad. Um, so I I started doing the the Independent Music Awards, and that obviously led into creation. And I had a history with them because my mom worked there in the 80s, and they had a comic store by my school, elementary school. So I I think I started probably in the early like nine 1990, started working in their store when I was 16. And I started managing their store. Um, they moved to California. I had met my wife, and I didn't stay, I didn't want to stay in California, so I was there for a couple weeks. And that was it. That was the start.

Berly 47:38

Do you still photograph bands?

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Uh loud and swing. Uh no, no, I do. I definitely do. Um, I I was my band was we were somewhat heavy of a band, so a lot of the shows I shot were um, you know, very aggressive, you know, uh kind of thresh metal, mass core metal, um, really a lot of stage diving and stuff, which if you're starting out in photography, I don't recommend to start that way because I would come out with boot prints on my head because I'm the tallest one, so everyone would just jump off the stage onto my head. But it was uh I definitely a great introduction to you know what for what I do now as far as photography, and it's it's become instinctual when you do something for so long to especially of people, because everyone obviously is different, but uh generally, you know, when everyone comes up for their photo, you know, they could they could be saying something, they could look at me for the photo, but I could tell that they're still in the mindset of wanting to talk. So it's a hard way to explain it, but um, when your face settles into knowing and being focused that you're having your photo taken, it changes and it becomes obviously much more of a genuine photo than you know, not you know, still wanting to talk and everything. So it's just instinctual knowing when people are ready to have their photo taken, while at the same time, I think my plus of what I do is is that I'm pretty good at making people feel like they're not having their picture taken, and that is a big part also, because it's you know, sometimes you may not recognize yourself, and a lot of fans have come up and said that you know they love the way they look in the photos, and I I do shots for my wife's uh drama class, and a lot of the kids they have naturally, you know, not the greatest of uh self-esteem, but seeing themselves in a photo that they really like, it kind of is a powerful thing, you know, to you know, change the perception of how you see yourself and to not be so concerned about how people see you, but if you feel confident and love the way you look and realize that you can look and you are that person, um it's pretty fucking powerful, you know, to change, you know, and realize the importance of loving yourself first. I think is a big thing.

Berly 50:24

That's a huge lesson that I think it takes a lot of us, myself included, far too long to learn.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Yeah. No, if I'm sure, you know, I I I think you you naturally you might feel selfish that you know you're um um you know thinking of yourself, but obviously loving yourself is is the best way to love others.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

I was saying it's interesting you said people's faces kind of subtle because it's almost like we don't think of photo ops as being action shots, but they are, and that there is kind of this quick pace you have to have, and you also have to like settle into that moment. And did it help by having doing you know, live music photography where you're like, all right, I know how I know when a moment is coming up. I can see when someone's about to take a breath, and that kind of lets you catch that moment.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yeah, thank you for putting me back on track as I was about that's what I was going to say. Uh, you know, I I use manual cameras for meaning I focus manually, not just manual settings for the camera. I'm that my cameras don't have autofocus, so not the not for for works for create for the photo ops, but for when I'm shooting live bands or or anything else or portraits, my cameras force you to I say my cameras, the ones I have, my they force you to pre to almost see things before they happen. So, you know, when when you're shooting live bands, it's it's obviously challenging, which is what I love because it's you know, it's seeing something that's gonna happen in your mind before it actually happens. So if you could see just an example, I'll use uh the swing. Um, because I've shot them so many times, I know that in their last song, Rob jumps on the drums and then he's going to jump off. He's not just gonna casually come off the drum. Um, so I'm already pre-focused on the landing spot of where he's going to land as he's doing it, if that makes sense. So when the camera goes off, I'm already focused where he is, opposed to focusing it on him on the drum, and then he jumps forward towards me, and it's gonna look out of whack because I'll be focused on the drum opposed to him. So it's things like that, you know. And I think it lends itself to what I do in because obviously with supernatural is you know, my my dad used to help me mail the photos, and he would uh he'd call Jared and Jensen Jenkin and Jenkins because he didn't, you know, you could never remember their names. Um so he would say, These Jenkin and Jenkins, they always do different stuff in the photos because he's seen other ones that you know I had taken, and a lot of the ones that, you know, whether it be Star Trek or just kind of you know, normal, you know, arm around each other, um, which supernatural it was, you know, lightsabers, it was dipping, it was dancing, it was on the floor, it was in the air, uh, high angles, it was like it was a lot of different things. So that is, I I think a big reason of of how long we've been doing supernatural shows. I think next year, well, this is the 18th year. Um, you know, obviously two years to the 20th, uh, which is crazy. And the big reason that I think a lot of fans have stayed as part of it as far as coming to the conventions and doing photos, is that they are knowing that the actors are open to doing poses and things that they may have not realized, not remembered back, you know, when they first started coming, that they saw other photos and shared, you know, the fans all sharing photos to see uh, you know, I want to try that, or I have an idea now because of that. And that is unique to this fandom is the creative aspect and the inspiration I think fans have gotten from other fans, which is you know kind of rare. And as far as you know, as long as I've been doing it, and I've seen so many different fandoms that we've done, there hasn't been that connection with the fans, but with other fans like this one. You'll see fans at another show and you'll say, Oh, you know, we start talking to them, but this one affects them, I think, in life more than just at a convention because it could have inspired someone to want to do photography, to want to do art because of discussions that they've had, not just seeing it. You know, when you talk to the person who created it, um, I think it opens up another train of thought into you know, really pushing it that you could do whatever you want to do, you know, if you truly love it. That's one one piece of you know, for you know, girls I say girls, uh guys and girls uh asked me about you know, photography and starting out. And I think the most important thing is to love what you do, you know, to to if you're shooting, if you're a photographer to to love what it is that you photograph, you know, because I I think you, you know, you don't want to go about it do starting in the wrong direction as far as you know doing it. Oh, I'll post this picture and uh, you know, 100,000 people will like it and and and that's that. It's uh yeah, it's important to love it for sure.

Berly 55:29

Did you watch Supernatural?

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Uh I'm embarrassed to say I've seen a few. Um I was always saying I was gonna watch it when it was over and it just kept going and going, so I never got started. Um but it's I you know it's it's always seems to be on the plane when I'm flying. Um because I think it's just perpetually always on, which shows how much it's loved. You know, to have a show that that was on so long. I mean, some shows go on for too long because they're just on forever and and should have ended before. But I I I think there was a a love of the crew that they had, a love of creating together, and which it kind of coincides with the convention in the sense that you know we're we're coming up to 200 um supernatural conventions in in two years. So it's obviously been successful for a reason, and it goes back to you know what I mentioned about the collective of of everything, you know, it's we couldn't have done it without the fans. Um, and then the sense that you know, you ask the fans that come, you know, what brings you back. And when they first came, it was probably the actors, you know, but now it's the friends that they've made and wanting to be there together, experiencing something that has the potential for magic to happen. And that's that goes into the photo room, goes into the music in the photo room, and just what I wanted to create was an atmosphere that allowed magic to happen. Because if you have screaming and you have uh an environment that that doesn't lend itself to embracing people that are coming in to be who you want to be, to to you have the pose that you want to do, that as long as it's not going ache shit crazy, that you know, there's the potential that's something that's never happened before to happen. And I think that is without being disingenuous or you know, being um non-truthful to what it means to people, um, it just lends itself to being a welcoming environment. And again, you can see how I just detour off of any question and trying to ramble about uh everything.

Berly 57:59

You're fine, you're fine. I loved that you said that they obviously loved creating together uh the supernatural cast and crew, and that's something that has continued through music. And you, sir, have been invited to participate in that more than once, whether it's going to a band show to take pictures or actually get up on stage and play. So can you talk to us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Yeah, um I it just came up um the last week and a lot of the the cities that we've been, or you know, new cities, like if it's on the East Coast, it's a lot of fans that I've known for years. So um they remember when I would play on stage, and it's uh it it's just Saturdays have become very taxing because it's it's the biggest day. So Sundays were always the biggest day. So Saturdays were a little bit more uh time for for me to just mentally prepare and as far as you know, also learn to you know learn the songs and just to rehearse because a lot of times when I'm home, obviously they are they were on the the west coast, so we never rehearsed in outside of the convention. So Saturdays in the afternoon was usually the time we would run through song run through a song. I just don't have the time, I literally have probably 20-minute break because the other time is prepping the car for the shoot. Um, so that gap where it's probably when Misha's on stage. That is usually when I would go to should practice the songs and everything. Um, but now I have to, you know, with Shelly and Brittany to to manage the car and um manage where it's gonna be. And there's a lot that goes into that. Um, but actually, you know, playing with them, first of all, they're amazing musicians, you know, they're all um, you know, if you give them a song, like they could literally figure it out in about 20 minutes, like all the parts. And I've never, you know, I can't read music, so um, my band, I wrote most of the music with my guitarist, and I had no idea what the hell I was doing as far as notes and anything else. I just I played what we were playing. Um, so with with with Swain, obviously the songs are recorded, so there's a um, you know, easy to reference, you know, to pull back. But sometimes it's hard to uh on recordings to pick out specific, you know, bass lines and and everything because I don't um have the individual mixes. So I would ask Borja to to send me a video of certain bass lines, and he sent me one in his underwear once, which was amazing. Um it's probably still on my phone somewhere, but uh actual playing the um you know with the band and being on stage with them. And you know, if you ask, you know, what for me what what the concert on Saturday night means, it's celebrating that Rob is still here, honestly. You know, and fans probably most of them know um, you know, what happened and what he went through. Um but that's why I always kiss him on the cheek when I come on stage, and that's just um just to, you know, again, he is he's one of the most loved, and you know, for me, grateful that he's he's walking on stage. So they're all you know, we're all uh, you know, if you think about it, we were probably yeah, when we were doing, I think, 16 to 17 shows a year, we were together probably 50, 60 days a year. So if we didn't get along, it probably wouldn't have lasted as long. Um, but you know, that that's again, it goes into the, you know, you know, the feeling at the shows, you know, I think is lasted as long as it has because it is genuine. You know, the love that every that I have for the actors and the fans, um, the love that the actors have for the fans, the, you know, it's it's a it's just a um it's a love fest, man. Not to get all hippies and shit, but it it is, you know, uh, you know, a deep love and caring for everyone that's there. It's um, you know, something I'll always remember in the most positive way.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

Oh, I did want to ask how the music playlists have changed over the years. Because, like you said, you've been doing it almost 200 shows. Like, were there were there certain heavy rotation early songs that now have changed?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Uh, you know, fans were always asking uh, you know, release the playlist, release the playlist, like release the kraken. During COVID, when we were all you know on shore of the future, uh, I said, you know what, now's the fucking time to release the playlist, you know, and it and I say playlist, it's what was one of probably 30 um that had probably 600 songs on it. So again, when I mention about you know meeting someone for the first time, obviously knowing everyone for as long as we have, you get a good understanding for what kind of music they like. And there are some playlists that are shared, there are some playlists for the um like the later in the day photos, there's playlists for the end of the show, um, which is generally usually Misha in his outfit. There's playlists for Shelly that I know she loves, you know, if and again, you know, she um she's integral to what I do. Um but you know, it sits long weekends, and I know the music that is, you know, kind of calming in a sense, you know, it kind of puts things in perspective of you know, it's you know, we're at nearing the end, like you could, you know, uh let out a sigh of relief kind of thing. Um, there's songs obviously that I specifically want to hear, but again, it's it's music that I know is just you know fitting the moment. Um, you know, and then you know, Jensen, Misha, Jared, Shepard, the girls, uh, all have their own specific playlists. So if you know, especially when we do back to back, I I make a mental note of songs that have played, and I'm pretty, you know, pretty terrible with memory, but I'm pretty good with music memory. So I remember songs that we played in Vancouver to not repeat them here because it's you know, it's obviously back to back, it's it's not always easy because it's the travel and everything being away from home and everything else, but you don't want it to be more monotonous, you know, to hear the songs in the same order. So everything is is I used to do DJing, so it's kind of ties into that as far as you know just feeling the moment and feeling the mood, and then testing songs out sometimes that um haven't played. I'm pretty good. Obviously, I'm doing as many as I have as is knowing what type of tempo and what type of song works. And it it's it's it's literally DJing, you know, because it's reading the room, it's reading the the you know, the the dance floor at a wedding party, you know, to see what songs people love to dance to or what songs people are like leaving the room to to get a bottle of scotch. Um, so that all, you know, it all ties in. And again, it's you know, for me, someone will say, like, oh, it's so boring you do in the same picture, you know, you must get bored. I'm just like, you don't get it, you know, like you don't understand that every person there is there for a reason that is important to them. And if you treat everyone the same, then you might as well just scream next and turn the music off, because that is exactly what I don't want it to be is to treat everyone the same. I don't want that. I want everyone that's there, the actors, and this is you know, not specific to supernatural, but but they are incredibly genuine as far as wanting each fan to feel special individually. And I think that again, that is a an addicting feeling to experience, to to feel and we all should, you know, to to feel loved in that moment. And that is just happen naturally. You know, and again, that's why I I think it's gone on as long as it has, is because it is genuine. You know, the love is genuine there. The caring and the you know curation to to want someone to feel something that we don't get to feel often. And I think that is directly tied with the music. And just the atmosphere. You know, the music, it's it's almost like layers of um, you know, the room, um, the people that are there helping. The what I do, the music, the the nature of what it is that I do all day is uh the way I want it done. If I was coming, if I was attending a show. That's how I approached it. I think that's a good way sometimes to do things is you know how if I was on the other side. How would I want to experience something? So yeah. Again, I forgot the question. The playlist, the playlist, we're actually, I used to use Apple Music, so um there's not a there's not really a great connection with Apple Music in Spotify because a lot of Apple Music was music that I owned. So it was CDs that had transferred that I had in Apple Music, and then Spotify came and it was just better for for shows because sometimes the service in the rooms isn't great. I had brought some of my uh stuff I used to use for DJing and Jared abused it, so I won't I stopped bringing it because it's just it was just too much to deal with. Um I had like cross faders for changing songs and everything. I was like, I'm getting a little out of fucking control here. You know, so you know, the having the playlists, and I don't really cue songs up, it just it's in the moment, you know. So as I'm shooting, um, I'm clicking and cueing the next song uh sometimes, but mostly I'm just going, you know, by feeling of uh just an example, like at the end of uh end of some of the actors' days, I'll put on the Titanic song, and that's for no other reason than for them knowing that it's you know we're at the end of the line kind of thing. The Titanic's going down. Um the Titanic's about to sink. Um but here it comes with Celine Dion. Um, but it's just the the girls in the room love it. A lot of the songs were uh songs I know the crew likes. Um again, it's just who depends on who's in the room at the time. There's certain songs that some of the uh the girls hate, and I'll specifically play them for them when they're there. Like uh Jen hates Africa by Toto. So uh not for any of the reasons she's just heard it so many times, so it just irks her. So some like this was uh the first show, I think probably a year that I played it, and she immediately turned to me with like a disgusted face, but uh it's all love. But yeah, so it's uh you're talking 20 years of curated playlists. I probably have three to four thousand songs on them that are just there, and I just as it happens, it happens. This tied into why I had never really exposed them to the uh to the world was that it would lose kind of the the the magic. You know, it's almost like you know, seeing the Disney Imagineers building the uh Mr. Toad ride. You know, it's it's knowing that you know love went into it. And um it's you know, to to see behind the uh the playlist sometimes would be you know kind of spoiling it sometimes.

Berly 1:09:55

They need to add that to the photo op description on the website that you know you get a curated playlist personally.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

If it was up to me, everyone it would be like Mr. Toad before you came in the photo op room. Like you would go on the ride and it would end with the photo. That would be how I ideally I would want.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:16

That is how those conventions feel. I'm not gonna lie. It does feel like a ride.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

And it's funny, uh, you know, each one and then and and it's really a specifically supernatural kind of occurrence is that every show every that we do, it almost has its own personality. And there's sometimes different feelings, and it and it never it's never never really a bad feeling at all. It's just it's just a you know, it could have been a joke that was said on Friday and that carries over. Um and it's it's you it's unique, you know, on that, you know, feeling of each one being individual and having their own personality, which is part of the magic.

Berly 1:10:58

I love all that. Is there a favorite song that you like playing the bass live with lot with the guys on? Uh do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

Probably, you know, I like you know, my band, we were incredibly uh we weren't just straight up like heavy metal, but we were definitely on the aggressive side. So I would say the uh taxi driver song is because it's the bass is a big feature of it. Uh being a guest like bass player, it's kind of difficult to um because you're not singing, obviously. And thank god no one can hear me sing, but the you know, coming on and just you know playing the bass like in the background, like it's you know, it is what it is. I was kind of forced to be like the the front man of my band. So I always had that kind of you know, more pushing myself to be more of a I think also because I'm 70 feet tall, but you know, to be more of a stage presence to not just sit in the background because I had to be, and that that's just who I how I play naturally is kind of aggressive and more in your face kind of thing. Um so that song just lends itself to that because the bass is a big, it's an opener with the drums. So it's uh where it's just uh Norton and I playing in the beginning and then everything comes in slowly, but it's a it's a great structured song. There, like I said, they're um amazing musicians, and I'm just honored to be on stage with them.

Berly 1:12:26

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

Oh, I do have one more question. Have you have you ever blacklisted any songs where you're like, no, this is this is verboten in the in the photo room or playing live?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

100%. Yeah, no, no, not not playing live because I mean generally we're coming to an agreement on you know something that that obviously has the bass featured um in a in a more prominent way on their songs, and also where one that that Mike can play keyboards on. Because the the last thing I wanted was to come on to Swain's show and Borja leaves. Like that is, you know, just sad to see him walking away. Uh but as far as the playlist room, yes, in the photo room, a hundred percent there's songs that are banned, just songs that I don't ever want to hear. Um, it's not so much that they're just screaming or you know, satanic or anything else. It's just that uh you know, there's a code that I you know I'm I follow, and um it's not about no curse words or anything else, it's just I don't want no shitty songs in there. Because again, it's you know, it's it's interesting to see because sometimes like one of the actors will recommend a song um and they'll uh come on my uh you know, to grab my phone. And I'm not talking about Jared who always does that, but they'll put it on the phone like, oh, let's put this on, and it's the worst shit song ever. Not a bad song, but a bad song for the room. And it's um it's just it's just counting down the seconds till it's over, you know, because they I mean they re they know obviously how long I've been doing this, so there's a big thing about trust involved in that they just know, you know, I know the songs that work. Um, and some songs just come on and it literally sort of shows the power of music. And I I I think we, you know, the music I think we loved when we were 14 to 16 is probably the music we still love today, a lot of times. Or it's in that genre, not not so much genre, but just that that feeling that he gave us when we heard it, you know, and I could hear certain songs sometimes, and you know, I think as far as memories go, you know, I think smells are maybe more powerful, but music is is powerful. And this, you know, hearing a specific song. I could remember a amusement park ride that I was on when I was 12. Um, and it just I could relive it like I was there. And that is again ties into the memories that are created in the in the room, and this you know, hearing a song, having something magical happen, you know, you're layering memories, you're layering music with a feeling you had. So then when you hear that song, it brings back that feeling. And I think that's the really the the the beauty and the and the power of music in creating feelings, in creating um just a multi-layered memory, which is the some of the most powerful.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:28

I'm so glad we started our first interview with Billy. I feel like he has a really unique path into the Aspian family. And I love hearing all the weird history of elastic waistbands first entering the convention scene before they reverted to their real name.

LA 1:15:47

I didn't know anything. I think like Burley had vaguely mentioned elastic waistband, but I didn't know much about it, so that was quite interesting to learn.

Berly 1:15:57

I don't understand why they did it still to this day. Like, I'm a Richard girl, I'm a Gabriel girl, like that's my fave. But at the same time, like, what were you thinking? What was that? Yeah. And it was so cool that Schmulke started in a band before he transitioned to a band photographer. Like his style is rock and roll, don't get me wrong, but I didn't know he was literal rock and roll.

LA 1:16:23

Right. I I mean you can tell it like just like you said, looking at him, but yeah, uh, it it all makes sense.

Berly 1:16:30

Now the way he carries himself. It's like, oh my god, because you were a rock star and you still are in your own world, as we all should be. Right. Now for the show's credit. This season is a co-production between denim raps nightmares and in defense of fandom.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:51

Cover art for indefense of fandoms was designed by Linz Mm-Cover art for Denim Rap Nightmare.