In this episode we're here with Dr. Michael Lubelfeld. He currently serves as a superintendent of schools in the North Shore School District 112 in Highland Park, Illinois, which is a northern suburb of Chicago. He is also on the adjunct faculty at National Louis University and Loyola University Chicago in the Department of Educational Leadership. Dr. Lubelfeld earned an IASA School of Advanced Leadership Fellowship and is also graduated from the AASA National Superintendent Certification Program. He was a 2017 Lake County Superintendent of the Year. He can also be found on Twitter, where we've met many many times @mikelubelfeld and is the Co-moderator of Soup Chat, which is a superintendent, educational chat on Twitter.
Music by QubeSounds from Pixabay - Rock Beat Trailer
In this episode we're here with Dr. Michael Lubelfeld. He currently serves as a superintendent of schools in the North Shore School District 112 in Highland Park, Illinois, which is a northern suburb of Chicago. He is also on the adjunct faculty at National Louis University and Loyola University Chicago in the Department of Educational Leadership. Dr. Lubelfeld earned an IASA School of Advanced Leadership Fellowship and is also graduated from the AASA National Superintendent Certification Program. He was a 2017 Lake County Superintendent of the Year. He can also be found on Twitter, where we've met many many times @mikelubelfeld and is the Co-moderator of Soup Chat, which is a superintendent, educational chat on Twitter.
Music by QubeSounds from Pixabay - Rock Beat Trailer
David 00:11
Hello and welcome to the learning leader lab brought to you by San Bernardino County Superintendent of Schools and I'm your host, David Culberhouse. If you are looking for conversations around innovative change leadership for our complex and exponentially changing times in education, then you have definitely come to the right place. We want to welcome you to this episode as we talk with leaders inside and outside of our county and the important work that they're doing. And so with that, let's get started. All right, today we're here with Dr. Michael Lubelfeld. He is currently serves as a superintendent of schools in the North Shore school district 112 in Highland Park, Illinois, which is a northern suburb of Chicago. He is also on the adjunct faculty at National Louis University and Loyola University Chicago in the Department of Educational Leadership. Dr. Lubelfeld earned an IASA School of Advanced leadership fellowship and is also graduated from the AASA national superintendent certification program. He was a 2017 Lake County Superintendent of the Year. He can also be found on Twitter, where we've met many many times @mikelubelfeld and is the Co-moderator of Soup Chat, which is a superintendent, educational chat on Twitter. He also co authored the 2017 book, The Unlearning Leader, Leading for Tomorrow Schools Today, the 2018 book Student Voice from Invisible to Invaluable, the 2021 book, The Unfinished Leader, a School Leadership Framework for Growth and Development. And in 2023, the book The Unfinished Teacher Becoming the Next Version of Yourself. So with all those books, Dr. Lubelfeld, answer this question because it just as I was going through your books, it just came up to me, which book did you find most enjoyable to write? And which one did you find most challenging? And I just wondered why.
Michael 02:24
Those are all those are awesome questions. Okay. So the most enjoyable was the Unfinished Leader, a School Leadership Framework for Growth and Development. Because I feel like PJ, Nick and I are our writing team or authorship team was so in the groove. And we found this writing to be so cathartic during the pandemic, although the book is nothing to do with the pandemic, we were writing as, as our own sort of professional therapy, to keep you know, commiserate with one another, and also make sure we had a lasting message. So it was most fun, I feel our voice was most integrated, the most challenging to write, although we love it is student voice from invisible to invaluable, it was most challenging because it was the first project the three of us were doing together. And while the three of us did everything in our power, David to integrate voice and have one thing, we read it now we love the content. And we still can maybe see a little different voice. So the challenge was from the writer ship process. And we felt that we really overcame that in the unfinished leader. We love the unfinished teacher, because it's our foray into the teacher world. And of course, Nick and I love the unlearning leader because it was our first time writing a book and getting published.
David 03:46
And you know, what I really love about that is that you don't just focus on leadership, you also talking about supporting teachers and student voice, which is so incredibly important. And above and, and even above all that because you mentioned the pandemic, it was so difficult. As you looked at everything that was coming out during that time of the job of the superintendent, it was, and you saw a lot, leave the profession, or retire. And so not only did you continue doing the work you do as a superintendent, you've continued to be very prevalent out in across the country, in supporting other superintendents and leaders. And so I think that's been incredibly valuable in a time where it's been more and more difficult for leaders to step up. So really appreciate that. And I like how you shared that about the, the book writing process because it it's a lot of work. I don't think people understand how much it takes to write a book. And so that was it's just great hearing about that. So let's dive in. Yeah, go ahead.
Michael 05:00
No, I say thank you, I really appreciate that. Thank you very much.
David 05:04
So let's dive into this. So in many ways, especially in today's, as we've always talked about exponentially changing world, we see a growth of adaptive and technical challenges. And sometimes we don't explain that technical challenges are the things that we have binders for, you know, how do we get the right teacher in the classroom? You know, getting students on the bus, all those things, adaptive challenges, are those things we don't necessarily have a binder for. It's what does creativity look like and innovation and so and knowing that you speak and engage in superintendents across the country, what are some of the most prevalent and pressing adaptive challenge challenges that you see are being faced? And you can go back a little bit if you want to head into the pandemic, or just where you're at right now?
Michael 05:56
Oh, my gosh, okay, this is really awesome question. So I'm gonna go right now, as a practicing superintendent, public school, and as someone who was blessed to do training across the country, with the AASA, and other organizations, and promoting a spiring superintendent, so we can get more folks in these chairs. And we get more folks who represent all the colors and genders and ethnicities and religions that our students have in these chairs. And that we can get them to stay in these chairs. It's one thing to get the job, we want to make sure that we support and we sustain. So what is the greatest adaptive challenge facing us right now today, I'm going to tell you two letters, that you write a lot about a and I, the embracing of the understanding of the acknowledgment of the who, what, why, when, where and how, of artificial intelligence, which is really adaptive intelligence, I don't think artificial is the wrong word we used once. Adaptive intelligence to generate conditions that sustained learning for each child every day, that break the barriers, so that there truly is equitable access to opportunity for learning for each child every day, we break the boundaries, holding our teachers back, our systems themselves hold our teachers back, they have to challenge with the AI umbrella. And my perspective and observation is freeing liberating our teachers. So they can be those creative agents of joy and change in the classroom, helping principals in middle level management and in junior central office and middle central office, be empowered to help look at what people identify as workforce skill needs, and then design our educational system around it, as opposed to binding ourselves up and bound rigging ourselves into workplace needs of the 19th century, which served us well, that no longer are relevant. So going from the Industrial Revolution, which realistically, and many of our systems were still subjected to, even though we're pushing and going to this information and knowledge system, where the companies are saying to us, we want workers who are creative, adaptable, engaging, have relationships are respectable, our kind, are thoughtful, are agile, the adaptive challenge is unlearning if I may, our current ways so that we can create conditions for the new ways and the embracing of artificial intelligence to understand that it's more than just saying, hey, Chat GPT, I've got an essay, here's my rubric. Here's the rubric helped me quickly assess, it's more than a time saver, although it is one. It's also to embrace the fact that, and then I'll close this device is more powerful than, you know, anything we know. And it's the worst advice we'll ever have. Mentally conceptually owning the mindset. That doesn't mean it's bad. It's amazing. The Apple spatial vision pro goggles are off the charts. That is artificial intelligence in the real world, not some distant future. And guess what? We've got to create conditions in closing, that allow for children that are going to imagine that in our reality, so I hope that wasn't too babbling. ,
David 09:42
No I totally love it. And I'm going to use one of your turns right here. So in many ways we have to on entrench ourselves from where we've been. And I think the thing I really appreciate is that I feel like it's been a little bit constrained the conversations and education around AI have just what's the tool in the classroom, but it's such a 360 degree understanding of how you hit on the future of work, and what are the skill sets that are going to be needed. Because it is not just a tool for the classroom, it's changing the world around us both personally and professionally. And understanding how those needs are going to not only affect the future of our students, and the present of our students, but the things that they're going to need to do, how it's going to change our curriculum to learning the skill sets, competencies capacities, not only for our students, but ourselves. And so you, I love how you brought all that together, because very often, we we sit in a very, you know, for years, these conversations we've been having. And it's come to the forefront with chat GPT, which is a very narrow, narrow space of what's coming. And I mean, you can even throw even going back automation as part of this, because jobs that students maybe fell into years ago, are disappearing. So it requires those, like you said, new skill sets, new understanding. And so yeah, and you're gonna say something Mike,
Michael 11:26
A couple years ago, I wrote a blog post, about looking at a garbage truck, the folks who work for waste management, and you're in your neighborhood. And ever since I was a little kid, I the garbage truck is always fascinating for me. I remember when I was a little kid, there were four workers. On the trucks, you had a driver, you had the passenger who would operate certain things, and you had two people at the end, who would actually load the truck. And I remember the truck had a compact or it was blue out here in Chicagoland and the compactor would go down. Now flash forward to the present day, when you look at the waste management experience, I have a neighborhood with a garbage truck and a part of me a garbage can or whatever, you know receptacle and a Recycling Receptacle. Both are deliberately designed with precision, there's a bar in it and everything's measured, they asked you to keep the three feet apart. It's because there were some engineers who re engineer the truck, you now have one driver who's really a computer scientist, he or she pulls up, they pull up and the the truck measures out where the receptacle is in it, whether it's light blue, or dark blue in our neighborhood, then the truck is designed to pick it up, pull it over, and it's got hydraulics and the compactor is better. So what isn't that we lost three jobs. It isn't that there were four workers now there's one, they probably exponentially created like 20 different jobs to get the engineer to engineer the truck, the truck may have hydrogen fuel cells, the truck has a different hydraulic and the Compact is in the middle and not the end. And you can have different trucks in different programming robotics and automation. So I look at something as simple and needed in society as the waste management system. And look what these conditions have created with intelligence artificial or adaptive. It just popped with me and it resonated. I look at that. And we can we can apply that to so many other real life everyday needs that are being met in society, we've got to provide the education for the workforce, who's going to be able to continue to imagine to reimagine that.
David 13:36
And I love that because I often get a little more dystopian, which is seems to be my nature. But you know, I always thought of it like a Walmart or a Sam's Club, you know, used to years ago when you'd go in every stall had a cashier, and then you know, there was 10 and then there was six, and then there was four and now there's two and everything's self serve, or you just scan on your own and walk out. And so all those changes just change the workforce. But it also going back to one of the thing about that untrenching. The one thing that I also love that you brought in is that I think in this day and age, we you brought up the word imagination, we have to see that as a strategic resource, because in many ways we have to what took us to here is not going to take us, I think, to the next step, so there's gonna require some imagination and thinking forward. So I appreciate that you brought that up. So I love that. So I'll get into the next question here it says, in one of your books, which is titled The unlearning leader leading for tomorrow's schools today, not a lot of people are familiar with the term unlearning, especially in leadership, because it sounds well how do I do that? But Can you expound a little bit on that concept and why you believe it is especially important And for today's educational leaders,
Michael 15:02
I do so the one of the main drivers for the book and a main impetus was Nick Polyak. and I were at a future ready conference. We when they first started with Tom Murray and the whole crew, and we watched a futurist named Jack Aldrich, a video of him playing, and he was speaking to medical professionals. And he was recounting the tale of Dr. Barry Marshall, who created or pardon me who discovered excuse me, he discovered the cause of ulcers. So, common wisdom suggests that ulcers are caused by stress and spicy foods. And Dr. Marshall disproved that, however, his own well educated medical community did not accept this, nor did they embrace it, they laughed him off the stage, they booed him off the stage, he came back the next year, they said, You're nuts. He then injected himself with the actual bacteria. He proved he had it and they said, well, but it took about 17,18 years before the change, or the unlearning or unintrenchment became real, which means 18 to 20 years, a generation of people with ulcers were misdiagnosed or not treated, Nick and I looked at pre K 12 education. If we waited 17,18 years before a known intervention was actually applied. We robbed generations of what we know works and what we know is best. And we said we can't do it, we can't have it. So that was the impetus. We also it was kind of a fun, silly question. Dr. Aldrich says, What two colors are a yield sign the road sign? He said, If you think through yellow and black, raise your hand I raised my right. I taught driver's ed in 1992. He said, If you think they're red and black, raise your hand. I'm gonna go they're yellow. No, they're black and white. They have been since the 70s. We learned it in a book that there were yellow and black. We didn't unlearn. They're not yellow and black anymore. That's silly. That's not painful. Final thing. But what Nick and I now sort of share and we talked about is, emojis came out in 1997, Representative color of skin emojis came out in 2015, it took 18 years for people who didn't have skin like mine, to be represented by emojis.
David 17:17
So we need to unlearn. And what I love about that is that it's also really challenging your own assumptions. Because I think the thing is, is almost like in today's world, you I think of it like your mental models, we get stuck in our mental models. And as much like living in today's world, but I'm still using, you know, a third generation iPhone, because I didn't update it. But that's how I see things. And that's how I, that's my lens that I put on. And, and I love that that unlearning is is is almost really just requiring you to update your operating systems or your mental models. And that requires you to get rid of some of those things that you believe still exists, but no longer really do. And I think that's incredibly challenging. You know, so I love that and I and, and just to have a book around that to challenge yourself cognitively is, is really awesome. So following up on that concept of the unlearning unmet can speak today, following up on that concept of the unlearning leader, what are some examples of where unlearning you think is needed from our leaders and from our organizations?
Michael 18:44
All right, I unlearning the cemetery row effect of deaths in a classroom. I know we've come a long way from that. But when you look at intentional and deliberate design of schools, and educational facilities, I'm always heartened when I see schools all across the country that have moved towards more of a collaborative learning space, versus the 1950s design that we're still subjected to that was more of a hospital or of a correctional facility space with cinder blocks, 1000 square feet rows and a lot of control. I like that we unlearn the design needs. For children in schools. That's one major one designing the facilities for the present and future and for students, not for a societal compliance. That's one major one. We also need to unlearn grading, and this is really hard. Oh my god, David, I have succeeded and failed, failed and succeeded and all of the above with this whole grading stuff. I'm a reader of O'Connor and Warmerly and everybody and I understand the danger of zero mathematically, I understand the danger of foolish, overly compliant models as well. The concept of unlearning grading is really, really, really hard, not just really hard are really, really a part of it is we were brought up in a culture of 100, 90, 80, 70, 60. If we were really smart, or in a high standards place, it was 93 or 85. That's a little sarcasm. So we were brought up that way, we went through teacher school that way, we went to school that way. So we want to be perfect. We don't accept any rating other than excellent because we think we're a complete failure. And then we've destroyed our emotional state, and our ability to emotionally get involved in change. So the grading system for kids and community, it's really more dangerous of what we've done to ourselves as educators and educational leaders. That's number one. So unlearning that proficient with high standards is rigorous and good, and you still have value and wealth in your organization. It's a very difficult one to get to the net this 31 years, so I'm still working at that. The other one is unlearning the fact that school and competency are measured in time of a bottom of your body in a seat. And I know we've got elements in pockets where the Carnegie unit itself is under review. I know we've got elements and pockets of competency based mastery level instruction around the country. So there's hope. When it's in the majority I'll feel that we're still behind, but closer, so unlearning some of the factory model concepts batching children by date produced versus batching, children by competency, skill set and ability, making teachers teach five different discrete subjects and be expert in all of them and meet all the standards and think that we're doing them a favor by taking them out of class to give them training. So unlearning some well intended, some very thoughtful, but really, really outdated and ineffective leadership and development practices. And not going back to the 70s open school concept. But maybe going back to the 70s, open school concept and unlearning that walls and barriers, might make good neighbors, but they also don't really show and shine with the world is today. So I'll stop at that. There's a lot, there's a lot.
David 22:24
No, and I appreciate that. And the and the one thing that I've always known and and, and I think it is not always obvious to everyone, especially those external to education is that sometimes education is the most difficult or challenging organization to change, because everyone went through it. And so everyone believes they understand how it should be done. And so it's hard. If I was brought up on the idea that I need a packet every week that I need to be filling out for three hours every night. And getting people to to understand maybe that's not the best way to approach learning. Sometimes it's difficult, because there's so many internal and external forces who believe this is how it should be done. Can can make it because I think the unlearning and that capacity building can't just happen internally, it needs to be done externally as you meet and work with your community. I don't know if that kind of hits on that a bit. But I don't think people understand how much of a heavy lift it is to shift changes in education, just because of everyone's going back to the idea that mental model of what school should be. Yeah. .
Michael 23:57
Oh, 100% Yeah, shout that from the rooftop people after the pandemic. We're saying, wait a minute, why did we go back? Why did we recoil and go back to what we were doing? Well, the broad brush strokes, you know, there's exceptions, but broad brush? The answer is, because that's what we know how to do. We didn't know how to do what we were doing in the pandemic, and we had we realized failure, that failure was so powerful. The problem is our system again, broad brushstroke looked at the failure in recoiled back to what they get an A in a figurative A. They didn't take that failure and say, Well, why did we fail? Let's peel it back. Let's keep going and push it harder. We recoil because that's what we know. We don't know how to unlearn and undo it and try to go through it after failures.
David 24:45
And you might have heard me speak a little bit about this, like, when you look at organizational theorists like like Bill Starbuck and Chris Argyus. One of the things they talked about, which I think made it even more difficult is that the longer the arc of the crisis, the more people want to go back to what they knew before, because because it's been difficult when you're in that crisis for so long, because that arc of that makes you want to get back to like, this is what we knew, getting back to comfortable. So not only did people come back tired, there was a lot of trauma, a lot of things that went with that, that just the length of it made it really difficult, I think for people, and then it's hard to push change, when people are feeling, you know, tired from what they've been through. So there was so many so many different things that you're bringing up there that go along with how difficult change out of the pandemic was, and I don't think everyone all always understands how difficult that was. So yeah. All right. So one of the things that I would say is part of your learning and leadership processes is being a connected educator, and leader. Do you believe that is something that is important for today's educational leaders? And if so, why? And also, is that term changing as we see changes in how social media has changed and and how it's being approached?
Michael 26:20
Yes, yes, yes. And I think the most important professional development are for lack of a better word or domain for you know, when you're looking at talking about the old evaluation is getting out there. Being present, being vulnerable, listening, learning, sharing, and growing with people who are not like you, people who are like you and all of the above. So I have to give shout outs to the Illinois Association of School Administrators, and the American Association of School Administrators to premier leadership development administrator focused groups. IASA has something called the Illinois School of Advanced leadership, ISAL brainchild of executive director Brent Clark and others in the association, I was part of Cohort Two there now unlike cohort eight or something, Cohort Two took ISAL took leaders from Illinois and Illinois like 50,000 square miles say huge geographical state not as big as California but pretty big. It's you know, six or seven hours from from tip to toe. So we are rural, we are urban, we are Suburban, we are rich, we are poor, we are black, we are white, we are Hispanic, we are Asian, where ever you know, we're traditional, we're alternate, unique, where everything, all religions, yet, if you live in Illinois, you're probably segregated from anybody different than you are very segregated state, not that different, sadly, from another country. So what ISAL did and what this connection did, and kind of where I'm going to, is we are together with people who don't look like us and who do look like us who are like us not, we really built community and heart, soul, mind, passion, friendship, and professional collegiality. After the Illinois experience, we joined the AASA, national superintendent certification program, we're growing in our leadership, we're maturing, we're getting better. We're sharing failures. Again, it's a big emphasis here, it's okay to make mistakes, right? Um, and successes. And then we learned with people from Washington, to Maine, from Minnesota to Alabama, and I all points in between, it's open my mental capacity to understand and see the world on its own to understand and see the world, it's opened my mental capacity. Then, of course, with Twitter, now X, Facebook, LinkedIn, you name it. Bottom line is, the Connected Educator is she he or they who reach out, present themselves, be present and learn from giving and taking, I love in person when you can do it. I love virtual, we can have it. And I think the best takeaway of the pandemic is that Zoom, and teams, you know, in Cisco, whatever, WebEx, I'm not company specific, but the web communication entity became really sophisticated and allows us to communicate in real time, all corners of the world. Bottom line is, I don't know it all. And I want to find the smart people, learn from them, bring their stuff back, and then find more smart people here that can help do greater things for children, for staff members and for the community.
David 29:39
One of the things that I truly truly appreciate about that is that learning stance, I think too often, as people move up the leadership ladder, it becomes about I have to know and we get stuck into either being knowing leaders or Knowing organizations, and we live in a time where things are shifting so quickly that we have to continually learn. And and having that stance because not only do you discuss it in your books, you also show it, I see it when you're on Twitter or X, I see you out there learning, I see you having discussions, I see you sharing, and you share not only the learning that you're bringing to yourself, but also the learning that you're seeing in your district and supporting that. And I think that's incredibly valuable. Because one of the other hard things too, is that, especially as you move up, and I think two distinct positions, superintendent and principal, are like islands, and you can't you can't be an island, because you not only need the support, you need someone to challenge you cognitively, to think of new ideas. And, you know, I think of another superintendent we had on the podcast was Glenn Robbins, I think I just saw pictures with you, two. At a conference not too long ago, you know, sharing your learning, and building those networks of learning, which Fullan had talked about. That often don't happen. When superintendents like yourself model that I think it's incredibly important, because it shows people internal of your organization, external, the importance of learning, lifelong as a journey. So So I I really appreciate that from you. So thank you. All right. So in your book, The Unfinished Leader, you talk about our call to action as leaders, especially in the educational setting. We know the disruptions that came with the pandemic. And we still keep coming with that acceleration of the digital disruption that we're experiencing from technology. So with that said, Do you believe educational leaders need to be aware that the call to action may be changing as we move forward?
Michael 32:10
Yes it is changing. And I appreciate that so much, David. So in the Unfinished Leaders school leadership framework for growth and development, we lay out a playbook or a pathway your lenses or frames, however you want to call it that say no matter what you're doing, where you're at principal, superintendent, teacher, policymaker, board, board member regional suit, empathy and equity. Maslow before Bluem, not a joke, it's huge empathy and equity, understanding and caring about the humanity that were involved with, especially in this people, business, people informed people driven, data informed people driven, but it's always people driven, then focus and challenge ourselves and push ourselves to adaptive leadership, where we develop ourselves and others, it isn't. Hi, I wonder if we should adapt, don't adapt, we need to adapt, and we're not adapting fast enough. And we need to develop yourself and others, then communicate, communicate, communicate, because in these jobs, often people don't understand it. And we've got to understand Einstein's way of having elegance and simplicity. And so often, we're jargony and too complex. And we're above, we gotta get down. So we're there. And then stop fearing change. Don't let others hold you back. Because it's easier. Don't let others hold your organization back, because trois D, that's the way they always do it, or that's the way they always know it. We've got to push, we've got to change, we've got to learn from others. And by the way, humanity is the most important part of all of this. So I look at technology to connect us as humans, technology medium brought us together as professional friends and colleagues. Technology brought us together, now we develop one another and we learn from one another and with one number. We've got to take the adaptive or artificial intelligence and look at how it's going to create jobs that we don't know about create those conditions. The packet might be awesome. The packet might be awesome for a group, but every week the packet is no longer relevant. Get some relevancy. And by the way, ask the kids choice, voice agency and relevancy whether they're eight year old or 18 years old. They've got a voice to tell you what's relevant. We still design the curriculum and all that, but they want to demonstrate how they learn. Because we've got empathy we understand I'm an equity means giving everybody the chance that they need when they need it. So I don't want to be on a soapbox. I apologize. But that's my response.
David 34:39
No, I love that. And getting back to the students, I think very often they look at us as we're playing pong and an X Box world.
Michael 34:49
Boom. Nice way to say it.
David 34:51
Yeah. And and, and sometimes we one of the things that you know, especially when I'm out here in California I'm as we look at community schools, that student voice and having that infiltrating through your organization is so important in the design of the work we're doing, because very often the people we're designing for are left out of the conversation. And we might think it's shiny and wonderful and new. And they're thinking, Yeah, we went past that about four years ago. And it's not even relevant anymore. And so their voice helps us think about that relevancy. And, and I love the way you brought all that together. And and it's just been wonderful listening to you today. And I know we're running out of time. But I do have one last question I want to wrap up with our talk today is that, and I kind of, you know, I think it might be a wrap up of what you kind of covered today. But you might, I think you might add a little bit to it. What do you think is the future of education and learning,
Michael 36:00
I think the future of education and learning is brighter than it's ever been. My own daughter is studying to be a teacher, and I'm her biggest champion, and I love it. Nick, PJ. And I sent to the unfinished teacher becoming the next version of yourself to 100 Dean's of colleges of education and all 50 states in the US territories, because we believe that understanding you're never going to be the best version of yourself, nor should you aspire to be, you're going to continue to reiterate, and become the next version of yourself. And as Horace Mann said, generations ago, Public School is the great equalizer of the social machinery. It's the great balancer, let's make sure that public schools take us into the 22nd century. And we do so differently than they took us into the 17th 18th 19th 20th and even our 21st century. Enough already with 21st century skills. It's 2024. How about life skills, humanity skills, the future of education is bright, because we've got public funds that support us. We've got communities that support us in every year on the Gallup poll. I love my neighborhood school. I love my kids. Teacher, I love my kids principal. Oh, I hate public school. Wait, well, what is What do you mean you hate me talking about, we are the future because we are the past, we are the present. And we in the leadership role need to create pathways for all of the folks with whom we work and serve. We need to create pathways so they can continue to lead. Because the future is brighter, we will unlearn we are unfinished. And there is no stopping us.
David 37:41
And I think that's a great way to end our conversation today. I'd love to sit here and talk to you for about the next 10 hours. But we will continue conversations on Twitter next, because I know you are leading those conversations. And I just want to thank you for your time today because I think leaders really need to hear your voice and the and the wisdom that you have to share as we move forward. And we start to think about the futures that we're creating and the possibilities that we want for our students. So thank you very much.
Michael 38:12
I'm grateful to you for the space. I appreciate our relationship. And I really have enjoyed speaking with you today. Thank you so much.
David 38:20
All right. On behalf of San Bernardino County Superintendent of Schools and myself, we want to thank you again for tuning in for this episode of the learning leader lab. And we look forward to you joining us again for future episodes as we engage leaders inside and outside of our county to explore leadership that is having real impact for the future.