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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#118- "Made in Mabank" with Director Luke Shafer
What happens when small-town values meet the challenges of modern policing? TMPA Board Director Luke Schaefer takes us from the pastures of Mabank, Texas to the leadership ranks of the Tyler Police Department.
Inspired by his grandfather, a Sheriff in Van Zandt County, Schaefer joined Tyler PD in 2006 and has since witnessed the evolution of policing—through technology, culture, and public perception—while staying true to community service.
He shares gripping stories from his time on Tyler’s bike team, where stealth operations led to high-stakes arrests, and opens up about the mental health toll officers face—over 600 critical incidents in a career compared to just a handful for most Americans.
Schaefer’s advice for new officers: manage your certifications, invest wisely, pursue higher education, be cautious with part-time jobs, and keep friendships outside law enforcement.
Want to experience the TMPA family? Join us at the upcoming conference in Dallas. As Schaefer reminds us, this profession impacts entire families, and TMPA is here to support them all.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
We got sworn in. On that Sunday and it wasn't Monday morning the very first board meeting, I'm getting a phone call from a deputy in Smith County. It was like hey, we've got a pursuit going down 20 and we've been shots fired. I literally stepped out of the board meeting to take that phone call and here we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 1:So learning that process, learning all the different field reps and their personalities and the office staff here at TMPA.
Speaker 2:Welcome back. Viewers, watchers, listeners. I'm your host, tyler Owen. Hope you guys are having a safe summer and, thank God, the kids are back in school. I work from home occasionally and I was going somewhat crazy with them being at the house all the time. So if you called me during that time frame of my kids being at home, I apologize. I tried to keep them locked up and chained up as much as I could. But they're back at school. As most of you that are parents are feeling the same way that I do, I'm glad for them to be back.
Speaker 2:So not a whole lot going on here at TMPA. We're, like I said, just coming off the heels of conference, which was a couple weeks ago, and we are in the stages of planning next year's conference and getting prepared for the Texas Peace Off Memorial, which will be in May, and we're going to push those dates out just as soon as we can. But I've got a guest today, one of our board of directors from the Tyler Police Department, luke Schaefer, a good friend of mine in my previous area, my little region of East Texas, and so I tend to kind of speak the lingo and we worked a lot together when I was the East Texas Field Rep, and so I wanted to have him come on and intro him and talk about his life of service and continued service with TMPA and who the hell is Luke? Get everybody to get to know you, because you tend to, not that you don't want to. You haven't been able to travel the state as much as you wanted, and so some of our members in West Texas or the Panhandle or the South Texas region don't really know who Luke Schaefer is.
Speaker 2:So, luke, welcome to Blue Grip man. Thank you for having me. How's everything going? Everything is wonderful. Yeah, how long have you been on the board now?
Speaker 1:The TMPA board. This will be my second year. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Well, man, we typically like to you know. Start off with talking about and. And how you got involved law enforcement where you grew up at, and uh, and then we'll dive off in the tmpa business. And and how you got intro to the board, because it's uh, it's a pretty cool thing and I, I knew you before you got on the board and to see you, you know, uh, win the election and get on the board was a, was a pretty neat thing. So how did how? Who the hell's luke?
Speaker 1:let's start off with there well, I grew up in a little town called Maybank where there's more cows than there are people yeah, it is. From that point I got to see both sides of law enforcement and my grandfather was the sheriff of Van Zandt County for many years and I just made the decision that law enforcement was the route that I was going to go and in 2006, I joined the Tyler Police Department that I was going to go. And in 2006, I joined the Tyler Police Department and started in the organization and listening to the young officers with me that just come on board, and then the older officers and I got them involved in the association because I like helping out my fellow officers and doing things to basically help people in need, and not just the citizens but also my fellow.
Speaker 2:Now with your grandfather being a sheriff? Did you have a chance to work in the jail or have any type of prior law enforcement experience before applying to Tyler PD?
Speaker 1:No, he had retired by the time I graduated high school. I did go to work for a brief stint in Tennessee Colony. I did three years there.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So that helped me out tremendously as far as getting to learn the lingo and learn how to communicate with people.
Speaker 2:And where is Tennessee Coliseum in relation to Tyler?
Speaker 1:It's South, southwest, okay, going towards Palestine.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. And then you started TPA and this kind of, or TPD and this kind of, rolled off from there. Yes, sir, talk about the early days, man, because law enforcement has changed so much since 2006. And I started in 2003 at the jail but then was on the streets about the same time you were. So looking back on it, man, it's changed quite a bit, with body cams and everything else that law enforcement's got to do. Now let's talk about the early days of law enforcement in comparison to now.
Speaker 1:Hey, so our department, it's always a forward-thinking department.
Speaker 1:When I came on with Tyler PD, we had the Coban system, which you had to check out your hard drives, and that was your in-car computer and everything for you and then we've moved on from that and heck, I remember when I got selected for the bike team, we started wearing body cameras with the little SD card on the side which, like that was. You look back at it now and you'd laugh, but that was actually probably the start of body worn cameras, and then we transitioned into your body worn cameras now, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I'm. Is the mic going out?
Speaker 1:It sounds like it is. Yeah, that's fine, I think I may be getting too far away from it.
Speaker 2:So started off on patrol obviously, then transitioned to the bike team. Kind of talk about your career from that point.
Speaker 1:So when I first started the police department we had that rule, and I'm sure you had it at your department. You can't do anything until you've been on the street for a minimum of two years. Then you can start putting in for spots. And then you had to be a minimum of five years before you could even start to promote, or that was even a thought.
Speaker 2:Well and I think that's a really I mean, looking back on it, it kind of irritated me, you know, during that two-year period, because I'm like man, I'm just as good as somebody else. But what it does is it establishes a good foundation, a good police. There's probably a five, and you chime in wherever you disagree with me. But about five years into law enforcement, you're just now really finding yourself. You're a cop, you're taking people's freedoms and even though the FTO phase is six months, you really don't know how to be policed for about five years into it. And so two years is, I think, is a good time frame of somebody learning the profession, learning how to do the job, and so that's probably why that two-year mark is there. But I agree with that now and, looking back on it, I damn sure didn't agree with it whenever I was doing it.
Speaker 1:I think it's a good foundation, because when you first come on, you're just learning how to apply the law, what all of it means and how the process goes. So you're basically drinking from a fire hose at that point. I think a two-year minimum is necessary just to get your feet grounded, get your feet underneath you.
Speaker 1:So I had no qualms with that, no problems at all. I actually worked about four years on the street before I put in for the bike team street, before I put in for the bike team, which is our um, basically your special missions, or your group that's going to go out and do, uh, active engagement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for the and for the viewer or listener, that's, that's, that's watching this or listening? Is that you? You think bicycle unit? You think a metropolitan type bicycle unit? Tpd has always been historically kind of used their bike unit more of us like a street crime suppression unit, so they'll. He's always been historically kind of used their bike unit more of us like a street crime suppression unit, so they'll. They'll deploy the bikes into a high crime area and so, if you process that they're quiet, they're going to take proactive officers, put them in there, and that can get somewhat hairy because when you, if you go to, you know you get a dope deal going on. You've got a vehicle leaving the scene, you're on bikes, and so you've got to know how to communicate. You got to know how you know, you got to know the city number one where you're going. Uh, but it's a. It's a. It's a different method and different deployment of what you would consider a normal cop, a bike unit correct.
Speaker 1:So we were more of a stealth type unit, like you're saying, a street gang or street unit. And uh, I, I can, I can countless times where we would ride up on those bikes, the treks that we use, with the silent hubs, and we would ride up right in the middle of a drug drug transaction going down and just start talking to them and you see the fight or flight real quick. Uh in somebody, yeah, uh, that was, I would say. Those. Those years on the team are probably the most memorable and most rewarding part, uh, being at the department talk about it was there it was.
Speaker 2:Is there ever been like a specific moment where you're, like man, probably the scaredest or the nervous, most nervous?
Speaker 1:you've been on that bike unit like a major incident yeah, I can think of several where we've you know, because once you're there in the middle of it, it's hands on. I mean, there's not a question of you know the group of guys that you work with, especially on that unit. They become family. So I get to know them and I get to know them well, my wife gets to know their wives, our kids get to know one another. So you become a very cohesive unit. You train together and obviously you work together. So there have been several incidents that we've had to, where it was like, all right after it was done, we one of the things that we always did is a debrief afterwards and we discussed it and, hey, this is what I liked, what I didn't like, this is what I did, good, or this is, hey, this is what you messed up, and so we don't do that again. But I mean it became a very cohesive unit, like I said, like a family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, so you're on the bike unit and then you transition, talk about your career from the bike unit I guess started off in patrol again, like I said and then the bike unit and then navigate through us where you kind of ended up now.
Speaker 1:So I ended up promoting to sergeant and I served on the patrol for several years as a patrol sergeant and then I spent a year as a supervisor in narcotics, at which point then I promoted to lieutenant and I was in charge of midnight shift for about a year and then got promoted or transitioned over to what we call the patrol response unit. So essentially what I do is I take care of the patrol shift special assignments. I have the traffic unit, our public service officers, and that's what I supervise at this point.
Speaker 2:But you've never been on, I guess, a traffic detail other than a bike patrol, right, correct. But you've never been on, I guess, a traffic detail other than a bike patrol right, correct, Never. Yeah, as a former motor cop, I can tell you you probably got more gray hairs now that you have to supervise those guys than probably any other unit, because they're whiny, they can be aggressive and they are demanding at times and I'm sure you've dealt with that.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, at what point did you feel the need to begin serving there on the TPA board and get involved with associations? You know, I just had this conversation last week with somebody. A lot of times serving on these boards, you have a lot of people who speak up in the back and like to throw bombs from the back why aren't you doing this, why aren't you doing that?
Speaker 2:And then, to be involved with a local association it changes your perspective. To be involved with a local association, it changes your perspective. And I think it's imperative too that anybody really with any TNPA affiliation, whether it be an employee, a staff or board members they should, and it should almost be a requirement that you have to serve at the local level at some point, because it gives you that experience and the fundamentals of understanding what's needed where the mission should maintain. And so talk about what led you to kind of get on the TPA board. It was most likely, like everybody else, a majority were kind of thrown to the fire of hey, you know you volunteered to do this, but looking back on it, man, it's so rewarding of some of the trials and tribulations that I think some of us have been through with local leadership.
Speaker 1:I got involved with the board, ken Garner. He conned me into joining the board and serving with him because he was the president at the time, but I think it really had a lot to do with just a personality wanting to help officers and do things within our organization, and he brought me on board and I started at that position, serving as a board member, and then eventually served in the capacity as vice president and president of our local association.
Speaker 2:Can you talk about some of the trials and tribulations that you guys have seen through TPA, things that you guys can do better, I guess whenever you were leading that or during the association? As far as just a local board member not president or vice president talk about some of the things that you learned that you could improve on To the listener or viewer out there that may be a local president or a local vice president or just a simple board of director serving on their local association. What things have you learned over the time? Give advice as soon as they come on they onboard and then advice you being the president of a fairly large association there in East Texas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say for someone just now getting on the board, whether it's state or local, the first thing that I would tell anybody is just sit back and observe everything. Don't rush into anything. Listen to what's being said and just observe everything. Take it all in and understand the process and develop relationships on your board and within the community as well. You know, serving as the president of the association which, when you're running it, I would say the most important thing is you're going to have trials and tribulations, but I would say is give it the 24 hour rule set down when something's brought to you, let it. Let it marinate for 24 hours to 48 hours before you act on it, unless it's something you just have to do right away.
Speaker 1:And then the biggest one is communication, whether that's with your board, your association or your administration, Don't ever get to a point to where you don't have communication going down. That's probably the biggest piece of advice is always keep that communication.
Speaker 2:Speaking of communication, there's been some instances at that that you know could have used improvement or could have used a different. There's been. There's been some challenging situations, just like every other local association, and I'm not going to pinpoint one specific event. But we spoke on cap, political capital, and how imperative it is, uh, any local association has that. What has been your experience there in tyler? Uh, and I'm just going to call it for what it is, just because local association has that. What has been your experience there in Tyler and I'm just going to call it for what it is, just because I lived in a region.
Speaker 2:There is a difference Now that I live in Central Texas. There's a very different perspective of racial tensions, racial situations. In the East Texas region there's this hidden perception that all white cops are racist or there needs to be an improvement on the law enforcement side. I don't see it as much here in Central Texas. Of course, I'm also not a police officer, but in my opinion and I think there's been some board members that have been monumental in building some of those relationships but what's the relationship with TPA and the locals there in the community of Tyler?
Speaker 2:Because there's over some recent events or events in the past in the community of Tyler because there's, over some recent events or events in the past, it seems like Tyler Police Association and the and the police department in general, thankfully to your administration, y'all got some phenomenal relationships and there's some pretty powerhouse NAACP chapters in Tyler. That that not saying that they would want to do ill will on on TPD or cause any problems, but really I I mean they've, they've y'all got a great relationship within your community and so it was. It was awesome for me to see that from my perspective and dealing with certain situations here, you know, within the last couple of years, right, I will tell you that's, that is the culture of the Tyler police department.
Speaker 1:Our chief does a wonderful job as far as driving that point home. Community relationships and it's one of those things that we do it every day. We have officers that that is. All they're tasked with is going out and developing relationships with the community, um, and we, we hold church and community events as well, where our chief, our administration, goes out and they sit down with the church leaders and we have those open conversations. So it it's, it's one of those things. That is, that is our culture and that's how our police department runs. And I, you know a lot of the issues that you hear about going on around the state or even a country. We just we don't have those issues in in Tyler. And if we do have something that comes up or we have something that potentially could be an issue, we're out in front of it. Our chief will meet with the leaders or meet with different organizations and we'll have that open discussion and he will I mean he, I will say he is wonderful when it comes to developing a community relationships.
Speaker 2:And you know one thing about tower police department. Again, talking about them being kind of on the forefront they've always been really good on their, on their social media stuff, just like your sheriff. How long was he the sheriff of Van Zandt County? My grandfather grandfather yeah 10 years, I think Okay, 11 years he he, he served in the capacity in that area for a little bit too.
Speaker 1:Yes, he started out in highway patrol.
Speaker 2:I would promise you that your grandfather probably built relationships within the Van Sant County community that he could pick up the phone knowing that little Jimmy had a warrant. Pick up the phone and call those grandparents and say little Jimmy's got a warrant and I need him down here at the jail. And more than likely they probably bought him down there. Community policing is not something new. That law enforcement started just because George Floyd happened.
Speaker 2:Community policing has been a part of our culture and our profession for many, many years. What we law enforcement has not done a good job is broadcasting that and showing shedding light on really what we do on a day-to-day basis is that most people who have contact with law enforcement more frequently are those that need our assistance and need our involvement with their day-to-day operations and lives, and so we begin to build those cultures up. But back to my point is that Tyler has always been a really good. They've always been really good at the forefront of putting this stuff out there and being transparent and saying this is what we're doing. This is why and and and believing in their department Is that. Is that an accurate statement?
Speaker 1:No, that's an accurate statement and you know the touch on that, what you were just saying about my grandfather. When he was the sheriff, there were times that he would contact people and tell them hey, come, turn yourself in. And you struggle and trying to make ends meet, don't have the money and you know that if you go to jail you're not going to bail out. He would actually be there to help them. Give them the money, get them out so that they could go back to work, so they can make their money, they can make money.
Speaker 1:He was known for being that type of person to help people that were in in, in. In bad situations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause we've seen it.
Speaker 2:I mean, you've been in law enforcement a number of years and we know that that when we put handcuffs on somebody or take them to jail, that you know we are essentially prolonging their shitty situation.
Speaker 2:And it could be a situation where they were born into with, with, you know, not having a dad around, not having parents, not having parents that really, you know, gave a crap about their lifestyle, and so it's kind of a revolving door and we as cops, identify those people. They're the repeat offenders, they're the repeats that we know. You know, if we get a call at the Dollar General and it's a Colt 45 theft, you know a beer or some T-shirts that were stolen, typically we know who those kids are going to be or who those people are going to be. And it's just it's not that we don't want to do our jobs we know that, man, there's something got to be done, and that's the hard side of it, that's the humanizing, the badge part of being a cop Correct. And so, again, it's not something new. The law enforcement, the community policing side, sheriffs and police officers have been doing it for a number of years. We just didn't broadcast it well enough.
Speaker 1:Correct. I would agree with you that that and that's a common. I think that's part of the culture of east texas, though I mean we are most of us grew up in a church, church home, and we've always been just part of helping out, being a part of the community yeah yeah and heck. If you go to east texas now, I would challenge you. Anywhere you're going to have friendly service. Uh, everybody's going to be kind, courteous, you're.
Speaker 2:I'll say this too. I think that the mindset or the perception of East Texas and it's probably like this in some parts of the panhandle is that people from bigger metro areas travel to East Texas and the professional side of it is sometimes questioned because it's not the culture at the East Texas aspect. And what I mean by that is this you may take a guy from Austin, texas no-transcript, or Dallas Police Department or Houston Police Department that may travel to East Texas and the reality is that some of our county sheriff's departments may be wearing Wrangler blue jeans and a button-up shirt and to their perception, they're like my God, what is going on here? The reality is they're getting paid $14 an hour. They $14 an hour, they're driving a squad car that's got 400,000 miles on it and they're just going to serve their community and do their, do their job. It's the. It's the, it's the cultural change.
Speaker 2:Not saying Tyler police department is far from that Right, but that's the. That's the challenging situation that you and your district. For those that don't know, luke's the region nine director, which goes from right at the tip of Marion County, not into Cass, but Linden is where it kind of cuts off. It goes all the way over to Tyler and then it goes down to the most southern part of Montgomery County. It's a huge area, so there's different cultures in different regions, and you can travel to Caddo Lake area, which is where I served at there in Harrison County, and you can go down to Montgomery County, and those departments are vastly different, vastly different. The equipment's different, the culture's different, the pay is significantly different, and so East Texas could be its own state.
Speaker 1:Tell me all reality. No, that's true. You have some departments that are the citizens take very good care of them, and then you have other little departments or other departments that they're just struggling to get by. They're just little bitty two-man departments or one-man departments that are, just like I said, just trying to serve and protect and take care of their community.
Speaker 2:Well, so at what point, what year, do you remember getting on? You were serving on the TPA board, dealt with some situations there and that kind of prepared you, uh, to maybe have an interest in running for the tmpa board. And I think that was 2019. Am I am I correct on that? 2020 it might have been sooner than that. No, I no, it was. 2022 is when it was. Yes, what, what prompted you or what, what what sparked your interest in? Into? Okay, I think it's time, I think I want to run for the tmpa board. Uh, and this and you did, did you or what sparked your interest into? Okay, I think it's time. I think I want to run for the TMPA board. And did you know what you were getting yourself into?
Speaker 1:Well, so, talking with Ken, talking with Tyler, I've gone to a lot of the conferences and I say I bring that up because I think everybody should at least go to one of our conferences just to see the family dynamic and the brotherhood within the organization. But after doing that for several years and then getting my, my role established at the department, I finally I was like Tyler told me he was going to be moving up to fourth vice president and we were going to have a spot open in region nine and, uh, I talked with him about it and talked with ken and decided that I would run for that position can you talk about the different culture aspect or, like I guess the the he mentioned drinking from a fire hose from those that don't know?
Speaker 2:uh, on a staff side and board side, when you become a director of a staff member here with TMPA, the amount of emails that come across and y'all are even privy to the legal emails, y'all are just privy to the directory emails that you guys get on notifications of board directors on critical incidents. Talk about your perception immediately whenever you got that spot.
Speaker 1:Well, matter of fact, it started on and it's always been a joke that whenever I get involved in something, it's always when the rain grow out is going to come. And we got sworn in. On that Sunday and it wasn't Monday morning the very first board meeting, I'm getting a phone call from a deputy in Smith County. It was like hey, we've got a pursuit going down 20 and there's been shots fired and I literally stepped out of the board meeting to take that phone call and then come back into the board meeting. I was like here we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 1:So learning that process, learning you know, learning all the different field reps and and their uh, their personalities and and getting to know the group here, the office staff here at TMPA, which I love them. They are phenomenal, it's just it was a lot to take in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so, for those that don't know, if you're ever involved in a critical incident, the process is that, obviously, call up 1-800 number, 1-800-848-2088, and you're going to have our attorney there within two hours. When the field reps are dispatching these attorneys and dispatching basically the resources to whatever region is going on, when everything kind of calms down and the storm calms, we are to notify the board of directors in that region immediately. And so, with Luke being in Tyler, again, it's up to him if he wants to respond or not, if he can, if he's able to, great Sometimes. I think you'll agree to this. We know we know our regions better than anybody and we know that the culture some departments typically don't like a whole lot of unknowns. You know unknown people showing up with with and then trying to delegate. Okay, I'm not an attorney, but I'm with TMPA Longview is is kind of one of those departments. We, they don't typically like a whole lot of people showing up to the scene, which, okay, that's fine, but it's up to you guys to respond. And so that's how field reps we notify them. Day or night, two o'clock in the morning, saturday night, it doesn't matter. And so we, we tend to know our, our, our directors and our executive staff fairly well. So what? Talk about the most impactful thing or event since you've served on the board? That really just makes your jaw drop.
Speaker 2:I can recall a situation with me where I had a member, a situation with me where I had a member well, a non-member actually called me one day and said man, I just want to let you know that I dropped you guys and went with Texas Law Shield and I just had my house is burned down. I'm sitting in a hotel room in Seguin Texas, with my wife and my three kids. I have nothing to go home to. My squad car was burned, my all my uniforms are gone, my, my duty belt, my patrol boots, and I just contacted my sheriff's office and they told me that I needed to buy all my duty gear and my weapon back. And here here's a, here's a guy that would. He's only he was only with tmpa like six or seven months, but more importantly, he's a cop right right.
Speaker 2:And I think it continues to serve to the mission that, regardless of what's going on within our duty and within our power, anybody with TMPA, whether it be an elected board member or a staff member, we're going to go the extra mile to do what's right for law enforcement. And so this was on a Saturday. He just so happened to get the phone call and started making some phone calls and stuff and by Saturday afternoon we had him brand new uniforms, brand new duty belt, a gun, and he was ready to hit the streets on Monday because he didn't have any time to take off in order to get everything done. That's been. That was my first initial oh my God moment Like I actually impacted a family by serving with TNPA. Has there been a moment like that with you serving on the TNPA board? It with TNPA. Has there been a moment like that with you serving on the TNPA board? It could have been collectively, at a board meeting or a specific incident.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you, the thing that has the most impact on me when I call is when I call afterwards, after the critical incident has happened. And you know real quick when the person on the other end of the phone just by the way they say hello and the way that they talk to you, whether they're in a good headspace or not.
Speaker 1:And that's probably the most impactful one is knowing the people that their administration supports them versus the ones that don't, and helping those people that don't have the support, helping them through those situations and telling them, hey, I'm here for you. You can give me that phone call day or night. I'll answer and we'll talk. We'll get it off your chest and, you know, those are the moments that it means the most and that's the ones where I usually go out to the back porch which I'll set up light up a cigar and have that conversation with them and walk them through whatever demons they're dealing with at that point in time.
Speaker 2:And again, for those that don't know, it's kind of y'all's and I don't even think it's within the bylaws. It's a customary principle that the board of directors will conduct follow-ups with the member honestly for a couple of reasons. One, to ensure that they get everything satisfactory to their needs. The attorney showed up. You know, field services did their, our job. But it also builds a relationship because it's in their region and for whatever reason, if Luke may not have crossed paths with a Van Zandt County deputy or a Smith County deputy or a Longview police officer, they now have that connection. And so it's just that checklist of checklist of saying hey, we want to make sure that you're taken care of and you're okay.
Speaker 2:But back to your point on the mental health aspect, something that law enforcement historically has not been talked about for a number of years. I've gone through a stint of it. I can't speak for you on on your stint of it, but we all suffer some aspect. You know the average person typically goes through three critical incidences over their lifetime. The average American police officer statistically is like over 250 to 300.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was actually. I just got back from the National Academy and that was one of the things that we talked about with. Mental health is normal, average human or average American. They'll have two to three major critical incidents in their life where, when you look at the career of a law enforcement personnel, it's 600 plus is what they were the numbers they were giving us. So I would agree with you Mental health is something that we do need to spend a lot of time and get officers comfortable talking about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, I um, if, if, if you're wanting to reach out, luke again is in East Texas, but I mean, he's, he like I am willing to help out anybody across the state. So if you're, if you're, if you're in a dark spot, if you need some help, feel and what's the worst day on the job.
Speaker 1:Well, the worst day is any time that I have to deal with a kid and when I say dealing with one of those kid situations and you all know what I'm talking about those are the worst days. Those are the days that that one will touch you. Flip side to that is also some of the happiest times is dealing with kids and seeing that smile. You know, at the police department we used to do bike rodeos and you would go out into the community and teach kids how to ride bikes, and teach them the stop signs, different traffic laws and stuff pertaining to the bikes, and giving them a helmet Sometimes it was their first helmet. Or, you know, even when we do the Blue Santa, I love the Blue Santa Getting to see kids that are struggling, kids that are. They just haven't been dealt the best hand in life at this age and you take them to, like I said, the Blue Santa and you give them the money and let them go buy whatever it is they want. Like I said, the blue Santa, and you give them the money and let them go buy whatever it is they want.
Speaker 1:And I'll tell you that's probably one of the most heartfelt situations is where you see a kid that you've given them money and it's like, hey, go buy whatever you want. Instead of going buying toys like normal kids, do they go over to the food aisle and they start buying groceries. And you ask them you know, hey, what are you doing? It's like I want to make sure that I have something to eat tonight, or I want to make sure that my brother and sister or my parents have something to eat. So they're buying groceries. And you know we always have extra funds with us when we do those type of events. So it's like, hey, you go buy you some toys.
Speaker 1:You be a kid, We'll take care of this as well. Those are probably those are the most heartfelt.
Speaker 2:You know, looking back on my career, I was a motor cop for about six years and I think that to that five or six year mark I was at Marshall PD. I was so concentrated on the number of citations that I had and I kind of lost, I lost sight of really why I was there, I mean, quite honestly, where I was just looking at the number of citations and not who I was issuing the citations to. And I distinctly remember my turning point of really going. Man, what the hell am I doing Is? It was on the week of Christmas. I stopped and Hispanic family there in Marshall, on highway 59, right near the Sonic, and the mom had warrants, no driver's license, no Highway 59, right near the Sonic, and the mom had warrants, no driver's license, no insurance, there was no seatbelt, I mean, there was no car seat for the little kids.
Speaker 2:A lot of emotion going on right. 12-year-old daughter. Clearly mom worked two or three jobs, clearly had some motherly duties whenever the mom's at work. And so the little 12-year-old girl came back and she said Officer, officer, matt, can, can you please help help us out? It's Christmas, we don't have anything at our house, we have no food, we have no Christmas. This is really going to set us back, and I remember it was a gut wrenching punch of going man, is the juice really worth the squeeze here? Right, I think saltations serve a purpose, not saying they don't. Uh, but what am I doing, right? And so I asked her again. I said so you're telling me you have no groceries and no presents for Christmas? She said no, sir, we don't have a Christmas tree. And so to kind of verify right, I didn't want to seem like the gullible moron I said let's go back. She was actually trans translating for the mom. And I said let's go back and talk to your mom. And so she translated to her mom that I was going to follow her back to their house right outside of the city, not even if it was out in the county and so we did this all without the sergeant's approval.
Speaker 2:Me and two other guys went out there and I shit you not. There was absolutely no groceries in the house. There were crackers that were expired saltine crackers and there was maybe one or two cans of Campbell's soup. We left there. The entire shift got and through some other donations.
Speaker 2:Within two hours we had six patrol cars go out to that house with groceries, well over $500 worth of presents, because there was probably six or seven more kids out there, a Christmas tree, and I remember driving back at that point going man, that's on patrol. That was my turning point of going. I did something great today, you know. I did something that's going to impact that family the rest of my life. And two weeks after that she gave me a little bear, and the bear is actually in my office to this day. Um, it's those moments I think that everybody and I'm sure every cop out there has you may have one where it's it's uh, you're a turning point and it's like, man, I need to get back to really who I am serving, uh, those, those communities, and so that was mine at Marshall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree with you. Um, I think ever, hopefully, every cop has those moments or has that situation.
Speaker 2:Or has the opportunity to correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I think we do, or I think that is a common thing amongst law enforcement. Yes, a hundred, I think we do, or I think that is a common thing amongst law enforcement?
Speaker 2:Yes, 100% agree. Yeah, what would the now-aged Luke Schaefer give advice to the 18 or 21-year-old Luke Schaefer about life?
Speaker 1:So this was a conversation that you and I had. I have a list of rules that I give to all the young officers when they come on and I just try to give them I wouldn't say fatherly advice, but I try to give them some advice to help them start their career. One of them is taking care of their license, their certificates. They know they should know take an active role in getting the next level of certificate, whatever they need. I mean, we have training coordinators, your department does, but that's not their license and they'll do their best to help you, but you got to put some for some effort and take care of your license. The other one that I tell them, I talk with them about, is investment.
Speaker 1:You know, most of the cities or counties have a retirement system, but that's a retirement system. Start a 401k or a 457 or even a Roth, whatever it is, and contribute a hundred, a check or whatever it is. You can and as you mature in your career and you get raises, give your retirement a raise as well. It may not start out like a lot at first, but you figure, over the course of 20, 30 year career that amount of money will add up and compound. So invest, invest wisely.
Speaker 1:The other one that I tell them about and this is one of the I think one of the biggest pitfalls that we have in law enforcement is part-time work. Know, our guys go out and they they get what they think is a part-time job and they start working it and well, it's on a consistent basis, so it's money that they're getting every month at a certain time. So they go out and they buy a boat or a four-wheeler or motorcycle or a new car. Well, at that point that that part-time job is no longer a part-time job. Whether you want to admit it or not, it's a full-time job.
Speaker 1:So I tried to talk with them about that. Yeah, that that's nice money is. It's good to have on the side. But don't fall into that trap. Don't go buy something based off of that salary and then go back to college. Go back, get your degree, whether it's associate's degree, bachelor's degree, master's degree. The state provides funds. A lot of the cities and municipalities provide funds for someone to go to college, get that degree, because we work in a profession where you can do everything right and still lose your job just because of the optics of it or the political windfall.
Speaker 1:So, invest in yourself and make yourself better, and it'll be good for you, but it'll also be good for your department and your family as well.
Speaker 1:And then, last but not least, one of the ones I really stress with the guys is keep friends outside of law enforcement A hundred percent, because when you're around a bunch of cops, all you do is talk about cop stuff and because of our profession, we get jaded really quick and we tend to shrink our circle to where all we have as far as friends are other cops, and that can be a good thing, but it can also be a bad thing.
Speaker 1:So I try to encourage people to keep a wide friendship base. Uh, and you know, you got to have those conversations with those people that are not in law enforcement. Like, hey, I'm Luke, I'm not Luke the cop. So when we go out, hey, this is Luke, he works for the city, that's all you have to say instead of hey, this is Luke the cop, because that causes problems or makes it awkward. So just introduce me as Luke. So just introduce me as Luke. I would say that's probably the biggest one is because our job the things that we deal with and things that we see on day in, day out is you've got to keep a friendship base of people outside of law enforcement.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I think you just hit it because when you're out with your friends, only within your spouse you start having some adult beverages and stuff, and then that's typically when stories start getting brought up and it changes the mood of the entire night that what should be exciting and fun to now what was me? And it's trading war stories For those that are listening. That's typically what happens at a majority of these law enforcement conferences. It's a bunch of guys around a bar bullshitting and having a good time, but it's those kind of stories I didn't see, I didn't know the difference.
Speaker 2:I had some outside of the profession friends in East Texas, but until I moved down here and then wasn't technically a cop the impact that it had on my kids and then wasn't technically, you know, a cop the impact that it had on my kids. You know we fought for a bill, or continuing to advocate for a bill, that allows, you know, kids to transfer school districts because of their parents. You know service and so it's for that reason right, Because you're a cop and people label you and it's just a bad situation. But that's definitely solid advice, Definitely solid advice. I'm going to have three rapid fire questions, All right, and if you're friends with Ken Gardner. I hope you answer these correctly, because he did not.
Speaker 1:It's Ken.
Speaker 2:What's your favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie, what's your favorite cop car and what's your favorite drink of choice?
Speaker 1:So we were talking about it. We actually listened to that podcast on the way in. I would say mine is Tombstone, that's a good one I was actually. I started laughing about it because also Police Academy that's a good one too. I'm a jokester. I love playing jokes and having fun at work, so when Clint said that, I was like that is actually a really good one. I agree with him. I love that one but also I love Tombstone. What's?
Speaker 2:your favorite cop car, crown Vic. Yeah, my man, thank you. I'm loving McCall Ken on the way home.
Speaker 1:I'm sympathetic to that Yep, that big V8.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you can't. There's nothing like it, nothing like it I agree. It's a workhorse and enjoying some luke time with mama. Sweet tea, sweet tea I got you sweet tea and nothing wrong with it, and otherwise it's typical east texas, that's the east texas drink of the drink of the south. So yes, sir, man, did we cover everything that you wanted to cover today, and or do you want to leave anybody with anything from luke?
Speaker 1:no, I think we've covered everything. The only thing that I would say is if you ever need anything, please reach out to TMPA. Just call the 1-800 number, even if it's just to talk to somebody. Always keep a line of communication. Always keep somebody that you can call on the burner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the perception of TMPA sometimes is just that we're just a legal defense right, we're just the people you call when you shoot somebody and, as far as from the truth, when you guys are struggling and their situation is going on, personal and professional. This is in my opinion when I came on. I didn't realize it then, but in my perception TMPA is really a big family and if you need resources out there again, professional or personal let us at least lean on us or reach out to us and see if we can assist, and we certainly can do everything we can. But he is 100% right If you need anything from TNPA or anything in life, just give us a shout, see if we can help you out.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you brought that up a minute ago too, about the TNPA conference. I highly encourage everybody to come to one of our conferences. It's a family-oriented event, so what I mean by that is don't just come by yourself or with fellow officers. Bring your wife, bring your kids, because we have family activities, family events scheduled and we want everybody to be there. So you can see that, yes, this is a family-oriented organization and we like to have fun and also give your kids and your wives, your spouses, somebody else to talk to that they understand the culture and they understand what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for effect for effect, and it's going to be in Dallas this year. I don't know how. The specific dates have been released yet. We're going to push those out just as soon as we can. But, man, I can't thank you enough for coming down. You and your lovely wife drove down here from Tyler and you guys are going to head back here shortly. But you've always been a good friend of mine and I enjoyed seeing in East Texas. But now that I'm down here I only get to see you really at a board of director meetings and then conference in the peace office world. So it's always a good time to see old Luke Shaver.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, you guys take care, listen, it's Friday night light season. Thank God, we are back into football Fridays and I am your kiddos succeed in everything that they want to succeed this school year and I hope they have a great school year as well. You guys take care, stay safe. The Thank you. The. The name Zafira means ''Pure'' Religion, ''major'' Religion, ''muslim''. Thank you, thank you.
