EP 56 Get to Know Laura Silverman, the OG of the NA Landscape

Recently, it struck me just how much the sober scene has changed big time! And it's something that my latest guest, Laura Silverman, knows all too well. As an OG in the NA space, Laura's here to share her infectious enthusiasm and wisdom with us by walking us through the early stages of her sobriety journey, revisiting the days when mocktails weren't the norm.

In our chat, Laura gives us the 411 on her latest exploits, including Dry January's whirlwind of engagements and a karaoke event that proves sobriety can indeed be the life of the party. She also shares a few ways her business is evolving, such as improving her innovative global non-alc map with Zero Proof Nation and even utilizing the help of a business coach to gain clarity on what's next. Laura also has some amazing tips for locating NA options near you, so whether you’re sober-curious or you’re completely sober, you’ll know where to look! This episode is all about celebrating the good vibes of the NA community and we are ready to sprinkle some encouragement your way. So grab your favorite alcohol-free drink and let's dive into the world of sober fun!


Get in touch with Laura!
@wearesober | @boozefreeindc | @zeroproofnation
Check out the Zero Proof Nation Global Map!


Mentioned Resources
Better Without App
BuzzCutt App
Delightful App

Thanks to Giesen 0% Wines for being our exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor!

Connect with Deb: @Mocktail.Mom

• Snag a FREE Guide for Ordering Out Made Easy
• Join the Mocktail Mom Membership, Thriving Alcohol-Free
• Website: MocktailMom.com
• Support the podcast & celebrate Authentic Freedom

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Transcript

Deb: 0:01

Welcome up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you or you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober fun guide, so sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing.

Deb: 0:39

This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Okay, hey, friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol Free. I am so happy. Right now we have an OG of all OGs in the house, laura Silverman of. Let me give you her three Instagram handles so you can follow along in all three places Zero Proof, nation, booze Free in DC and we Are Sober. Laura, how are you? Welcome to the podcast.

Laura: 1:11

Hi Deb, thank you so much for having me Love. You love being here. Hi everyone Kisses.

Deb: 1:18

I love you. Before we get started, I did share this over at the Mocktail Summit because you were one of the presenters at the Mocktail Summit. That happened during National Mocktail Week this year. I did share this there, but I want to make sure. If anybody missed, I want them to know what an inspiration you have been to me since minute one. I have followed you for a very long time.

Deb: 1:36

I don't know which account it was that I followed you on but I followed one of them from way back when, in January of 2021, it was my very first month, my first whole month, being alcohol free I guess you were doing an Instagram live with someone else and you guys were making mocktails on Instagram and it was such an inspiration to me. I'll never forget it. I really will never forget watching you guys. You were having so much fun and I was like that's what I want to do. I want to do that. Look how fun they're having Just sharing about drinks, sharing about this industry, sharing about all the things they're finding what's good to drink.

Laura: 2:09

Thank you for being such an inspiration to me and I just love you, so, so great to have you here today, gosh, I feel like I'm on Oprah or something and I'm already crying and we're on the couch and everything, but that means so much to me. Let me tell you, girl, you have taken making mocktails on air to a new level. Having a good time, we're having a good time, thank you. I cannot wait to tune back in to see your condensed milk update, because I did just go.

Deb: 2:36

Did you post a message? I did just go. I literally. That's why I was running in here for this podcast recording, because I was at Walmart picking up the groceries and so I do have a sweetened condensed milk that is not expired, so we will see how it goes with the red wine.

Laura: 2:50

Yeah, because I was like that sounded really interesting. Have you ever? Tried that I love how you kept it. I've never tried that before. I love how you kept it real, though Bloopers and being real are really the most sort of authentic part of, I think, of being on Instagram and making those connections. It could be highly curated and highly aesthetic, guys, if that's even a word.

Deb: 3:11

We want real.

Laura: 3:13

We want real. So laugh on air and make those mocktails with expired milk from 2020, because isn't it still 2020? It feels like no time has passed, Literally.

Deb: 3:25

Even that one can. The first can I tried was 2018, hello. And then the other second one's, 2020, and I'm just like it feels like it was yesterday. It really was yesterday. How is it 2024? Yeah.

Laura: 3:39

It's certainly in terms of all of the amount of options that we have now. And I'm just looking. I'm looking behind you. I wish my studio looked a little bit different, but if I just showed you sorry all the clothes, but can you kind of see some of my? Oh sorry, the floor is covered with beverages over there. Look at it. Yes, there's a lot going on and it's a great time. It's a great time to be alcohol-free or reducing one's drinking, because there are so many, so many options. I know that this was the biggest dry January for me. Was it the biggest dry January for you yet?

Laura: 4:11

Oh, in terms of like activity and Everything going on like just the busyness of this month, but also like the excitement of this month. It's been the biggest.

Deb: 4:20

Yes, do you see a big change? Because you've been doing this longer, longer than all of us. Dry January 2024, I'm exhausted, I'm all dry, januaryed out. I'm continuing on, I'm not stopping my ways, but at the same time I'm like, okay, can we just get some? I feel like I need my energy back. Yeah, so how was it for you? How was dry January for you? It's been crazy. You just got back from the mindful drinking fest right, it's been absolute insanity.

Laura: 4:44

And thank God all of the drinks have been non-alcoholic, because I'm like this would be a whole different podcast. I'm telling you it's been the biggest one yet. I mean, and just from the point of view of even my own things like I've, you know, I spoke at a conference in Philly, dry Vibes, which was so fun, such a great event, wow, I mean. But the weekend before and of course there was the mindful drinking fest I hosted karaoke on the first night and it was wild and all of these people are incredibly talented and I'll tell you not drinking alcohol means that you can read the words, you can sound a little more on pitch and I had never actually done karaoke in front of so many non-alcohol drinking people. Usually I'm one of the people that's like I can mask pretty easily and I can pretend like I'm like tipsy and cause. This is just a little easier. I thought, oh God, everyone's sober here or sober-ish and it's going to be a little awkward. It was not. It was so fun. But I mean with that with all of the press things and watching all of my friends get their own press opportunities and TV appearances and summits like yours, which was fantastic, so fun, but globally it's just been huge. Now I will tell you, I have seen a lot in my time and I remember when there wasn't a thing called Dry January. I remember when there wasn't even a thing called Substance Use Disorder which I had and am in recovery from Substance Use Disorder, but I got sober in a time when there wasn't even that kind of language.

Laura: 6:13

So just so that everyone knows, the real nutshell version is that I had a binge drinking problem and I chose to get professional help in 2007. I was 24 years old. So I was like what am I doing? I can't quit alcohol, I can't not have alcohol. I tried really hard not to think in terms of forever. For me, this was a way that Maybe I can get a handle on my drinking with professional help. Like that was silly. But what it essentially did was it planted a seed for me and I was like well, I feel really good right now not drinking. I like not having hangovers. I like learning a little bit more about myself again.

Laura: 6:51

Am I spending the rest of my 20s without alcohol? Probably not, but I didn't. I tried to really stay in the moment as much as I could. It was difficult, I'll be honest. But over time I started to build more time of just like not drinking alcohol and working on myself, which I didn't realize was a way of being in recovery for me. You know a lot of people talked about recovery in certain terms and I was finding my own way in recovery. That involved different modalities, different pathways and over time I mean we're talking about now years compounding I just really liked Nay, loved who I was without alcohol and who I was becoming without alcohol, and so I have grown up in my own. You know, my adulthood has been sober, my adulthood has been alcohol-free, but I will say it wasn't always a time of fun and ease.

Laura: 7:46

Yeah, for the basically the first 10 years of my sobriety, there were no Non-alcoholic beverage options worth mentioning. There were no social spaces other than coffee shops that I really felt comfortable in. Now, I would say around the three or four year mark, I started going to bars again because I wanted to do karaoke with friends. I'm a karaoke fiend like I wanted to. I wanted to have that like nightlife, I wanted to be like young, but I didn't want to be around alcohol. And then it just it got to a point where I just found that bars weren't for me anymore. But I've been.

Laura: 8:19

I've had so many different Firsts without alcohol. You know, first music festival and concert and going to a wedding and being in a wedding and New Year's Eve's and just like anything that that someone might be nervous about. You know if, if someone is just deciding like, okay, well, alcohol is not serving me anymore or may never have served me, but I'm still a little nervous about what to do, like now is the time to be super excited because there are these third spaces. In places with Boos, free bars and pop-up venues, there are non-alcoholic bottle shops. So if you are interested in, you know, drinking these beverages, you don't have to go to a liquor store to find them, and now they're. They're in grocery too.

Laura: 9:01

So it's just it's. It's such a time. But I'll tell you, like the first ten years it felt like there weren't going to be options and and it felt like there weren't going to be opportunities to just have other sober or soberish friends If we weren't part of a certain type of fellowship. So I've been, I've been an advocate since day one, because I knew that there had to be other people out there who had interests like mine. And I would just start talking about them and and find them somehow and and I think I did, I think we did.

Deb: 9:35

Well, not only we found each other, but you've helped lead the way and you you continue to help lead people to finding options. So on your website, on zero proof nation, right, there's a global map, am I right? Yes, you want to tell everybody a little bit about what's on your website, what people can can find there.

Laura: 9:49

Yeah. So if I mean, if people find their way to zero proof nation, I think of it as sort of a one-stop shop of finding resources, whether they're podcasts, whether they're and I and I need to make some updates but whether they're podcasts and books and recipe books, to beverages themselves, I have a wide, wide directory of beverages by category and then, before the map came to be, I had these directories of bottle shops and bars, boost free. Of course, everything is is non-alcoholic on the website. I noticed in 2020, this the start to really become a thing. Of course, we all know what happened in 2020 my sweet and condensed milk.

Laura: 10:27

Condensed milk expired in 2020.

Deb: 10:29

That is the podcast shell and apparently I didn't use it the whole time I was home. I didn't use it, okay.

Laura: 10:34

No, but don't be sorry, because you brought it all back. You tied it all together and I'm not gonna bow, but like there was, there was and I said it a couple times before, but I think it's worth noting again like the not the adult non-alcoholic beverage industry had been starting to rise. You know there were. There were places that had mocktail menus, there were places that started to put non-alcoholic beer on their menus too, but it was so scattered and so few and far between there weren't anything except for I will note that that sands bar out of Austin we love, chris Marshall and listen bar in New York City, lorelai Bandrovsky her concept and then there was another concept in the UK called redemption bar. Those were the three bars in the whole world, pop up or otherwise, where you could go to a booze free bar. There were just three, and there were no such things as non-alcoholic bottle shops. Mel from the open road and Douglas from spirited away are the first two in the US, and and so 2020 saw the rise of these e-commerce and then brick-and-mortar non-alcoholic bottle shops, as, as the world started to open up again, and then as as restrictions really started to lift and people missed being in community with each other. We started seeing the rise of these pop-up experiences and brick-and-mortar booze free bars. So I started to document these places, the the rise of these places, and I created directories for them. But then there was something it was just like looking at it in a directory for me. You could see how much was growing, you could see how much this industry was starting to rise, but there's still. You still weren't able to like visualize it on a map, like where are these places really? So I had done a couple of virtual road trips quote-unquote in blog form where I took people across the country and did like an east coast, a middle and a west coast version of where they could find booze free bars and non-alcoholic bottle shops. And Even when I did that, in 2021, we were starting to see more of a map you.

Laura: 12:30

But I thought let's just make this a global thing because really, since I've been a bit of an NA historian, I've noticed that the UK was really kind of the ground round zero, if you will of the non-alcoholic beverage movement and it's where Dry January came out of and they've just been ahead of the curve. Of course, the US loves to do everything bigger and better because we're America. So I was like there's definitely an international aspect here that I wanted to bring people's attention to and realizing this sort of after the fact because hindsight is always 2020, but I grew up overseas. My father is a retired US diplomat, and so I spent 14 out of 18 years of my upbringing in different countries and continents, and travel has been in my blood. I've lived in Egypt, peru, nicaragua and El Salvador, in addition to the US, so I've loved exploring new cultures and just seeing that there is a world outside, not just of our states, but out of our country too. And so I had this sort of this mindset of an international landscape, because I sort of knew what it was like to see the world from a larger, sort of 30,000 foot view. So I decided I was like, well, why not just attempt to map out this whole thing globally, see what can happen?

Laura: 13:56

And it took I mean, it took all of my years of research, but then, when it came time to do the you know pedal to the metal, it took a good solid six months of work. I'm still very behind on making it super current, because every day there's something new. People are submitting things to me, people are telling me about things, and I just can't keep up anymore. I need a team, but I think where we are now is probably 300, 350 individual establishments that are entirely alcohol free, whether they are e-commerce, brick and mortar or pop up, and again whether they're their bottle shops or bars in those third spaces, and probably more that I don't even know about, but what I do know about is at least 300, if not more. So we're in six out of seven continents. This is a call out to any researcher in Antarctica who wants to start a pop up bar or a bottle shop for all of your fellow researchers, we can get the products.

Deb: 14:55

yeah, we can get the products sent to you. I'm sure we can convince a couple of these brands.

Laura: 14:59

And with the company that I've been advising, we're working on a prototype for preventing freezing in transit. So I think this would be really, really helpful for not just any brand that's not in Antarctica, but also in Antarctica. Yes, we need to test that out.

Laura: 15:17

So, yeah, it's just been wild to see, and my heart is so full with just knowing, that really, no matter where someone is essentially like, no matter where someone is, they're not too far from an experience like this, whether it's like a two hour road trip, one hour, or it's like within walking distance. If you live in New York City, you're almost guaranteed to be set in whatever borough you are, but especially Manhattan and Brooklyn. There's so much going on there so I've seen a lot of things. But I wouldn't be where I am and I wouldn't have a website like Zero Proof Nation if it weren't for every single individual member of this community who either cares about this industry, who creates a product to then put into the ecosystem and into the economy, or who has the courage to start a bar or a bottle shop and really flex entrepreneurial muscles and it's not easy.

Laura: 16:11

So I am but to. I mean I'm not minimizing what I do. I really do value the work that I get up into the universe, but I sort of see myself as a curator and everyone who's part of this ecosystem I'm able to kind of envelop together and it's amazing and I absolutely love everything that you do, deb. I mean I really mean it. You are just like the most fun to watch. Thank you.

Deb: 16:36

Thank you, I'm a little crazy.

Laura: 16:39

Well, that's what makes it fun for me. Have you met me?

Deb: 16:42

I was gonna say we have to meet in person. One more good time I am not really a karaoke person, but I will cheer you on while you're doing karaoke.

Laura: 16:48

I will be there to help. Not every person is there. Everyone was there.

Deb: 16:51

Yeah, I'll be there. I will have a great time. I'm not quite the singer, but I will. I would have a great time. Okay, as you guys know, I love Giesen Zero Percent wines. Their Sauvignon Blanc is my go-to on a regular basis, but they recently launched a delicious sparkling brute, zero Percent, which is quickly becoming a fan favorite. I am so proud to have Giesen as the exclusive non-alcohol wine sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast.

Deb: 17:16

Giesen Zero Percent wines are created through the magic of advanced spin and cone technology to remove the alcohol from their full-ended wines. The award-winning winemaker Duncan Shuler and his team have done wonders in Marlboro, new Zealand, by creating an entire family of Zero Percent wines with all the flavor and deliciousness you expect from traditional quote full-ended wine. Their non-alcoholic wines maintain the aroma and the body to create a low-calorie wine that never contains more than 0.5 ABV. Globally available, look for Giesen Zero Percent wines wherever you shop for your non-alcoholic options. Their family of alcohol-free wines include the most effervescent member of the family, the sparkling brute, zero Percent, which is absolutely delicious for any celebration.

Deb: 17:54

My personal favorite, although I do love them all is the Sauvignon Blanc, coming in at only 100 calories for the entire bottle and, not to be missed, the other members of their Zero Percent family the Riesling, the Premium Red Blend, the Rose Day, the Pino Gris. With Giesen Zero Percent wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen' a try and let me know how much you love it. And if you wanna meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story. Okay, have you ever thought about like I, just as you're speaking, like maybe about writing a book, like the history of the non-alcoholic space? Are you writing a book? You should Well.

Laura: 18:28

I you really should, I started with You're holding all the information.

Deb: 18:33

I'm not, you're holding it, but it'll happen. Yeah, no, no.

Laura: 18:35

I mean, I have a lot in my brain. That's an interesting I never really thought of like a history book, but I am working on a concept and I wanna tie in my personal experience but also sort of a landscape of what's going on globally and sort of where we've come and where we're going. I have a lot of projects that I wanna work on in 2024. I really do believe this is my year and I'm excited to see what comes of it. But yeah, I just I think I need to get some of that down on paper. That's a great idea.

Deb: 19:07

Yeah, it is your year. Okay, so what are you most excited about? You're so cute, you're getting out your paper. I am?

Laura: 19:13

I'm getting out my paper, I'm just worried. Do you write it on notes or?

Deb: 19:16

are you like me and you just have post-it notes everywhere? Like I have post-it notes everywhere, I have notebooks post-it notes, planners, digital stuff.

Laura: 19:24

I have ADHD, so I need to be able to so do I Cover it? And you know like, make sure that I've coverage everywhere, basically, and I use my Notes app on my phone religiously too, so I don't often know where things are, but they're in one of these-.

Deb: 19:38

It's written somewhere. It's either in a notebook, it's on a post-it note, it's in your notes, yes, yeah, what are you most excited about?

Laura: 19:45

The most in the near future thing that I'm excited about is the World Alcohol Free Awards in London. I have been asked to judge again and I'm going, so I'm very excited about that. And it's another. It really does feed my, my mouth and my soul, because I have this deep interest in documenting this from a global perspective. Right, and so being able to go to the UK and tasting all of these, you know, not just British beverages and UK beverages, but beverages from all around Europe, from Australia, and we're going to have, you know, more American entrance too and Canadian entrance. I've been really kind of, you know, banging the drum on getting Canadian and American companies to enter their beverages so it can really be a World Alcohol Free Awards. But I'm super excited about that.

Laura: 20:32

I really loved all of the energy that came out of this dry January with everything that was going on in the States, from the LA Festival pure clarity. I wasn't at that, but I love this woman. Sarah Siegel has been doing some really great things. I loved the digital summits, I love the mocktail summit, I love the mindful drinking fest and dry vibes in Philly, and I know they had one in Kansas City as well. So there's so much more energy around these in-person experiences where we can really connect and be in community with each other and also have that opportunity to taste things in real time. I'm also just excited about finally stepping into my own power and being a more actualized version of myself. So I started working with this business coach, who's really phenomenal and a shout out to her but she also is the founder of a pop-up bottle shop and bar in Burlington, vermont Tonic, and so you know we're helping each other out and she's just she's been amazing.

Laura: 21:30

So I think that there's some big things coming that I'm most excited really and travel to. I want to figure out how I can leverage my knowledge and my passion into bringing people to new cities that they might not have been to before, whether they're domestic or international, and having an NA beverage experience in a new place, so opening their eyes to new beverages, opening their eyes to new places. But honestly, I was just gonna say the thing that I'm really most excited about is meeting more people, continuing to be a driver in this space and to always let people know that they're not alone, that there are options. It doesn't matter if they are sober for the night or sober for nine months or a month or a year or the rest of their lives, or if they're sober-ish, there are options for everyone, and I just want to make sure that people have a way of finding them where they are. So I think my work is. I still really want to do this.

Deb: 22:28

Yeah, you are absolutely a driving force in this space. I hope you feel the love from everybody in this community. I mean, you've just done amazing things and the way that you shine a spotlight on other people. I want that spotlight to come shine on you Because you deserve it and you have done. You do so much for other people and for people who are here for whatever reason like you said, sober for a night, sober, curious sober-ish, or sober for nine months. You do so much for people who are interested in non-alcoholic options, alcohol-free options.

Laura: 23:04

So thank you for everything that you do.

Deb: 23:06

So, yes, I'm excited for your 2024 and for you to be working with a business coach and just to sometimes we just I mean, it's like I just get in my own way- oh God, I am my biggest hurdle and obstacle. Nothing else is stopping me except me. You know everything that's in my head, that I want to do my goals and this and that it's like what's stopping me?

Laura: 23:25

Nothing, just me, my mindset, you know sometimes so it's so interesting that we think that the people that we look up to the most, or certainly some of the people that we look up to the most like, don't have these same thoughts, like they couldn't possibly think that. Oh my gosh.

Laura: 23:41

And let me just tell you, yes, we all do, and I completely am there with you, deb, and we're going to get past it together. And anyone listening whose mindset is getting in their own way of success. And remember success doesn't mean absence of failure, it means pushing through failure, because we're not going to get to any kind of goal or destination without the journey that involves a bunch of obstacles, hurdles, and we just have to. You know, it's like we're in a cracking field and jumping over those hurdles.

Deb: 24:14

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, and the road right. It's not like a straight road, like there's. There's my goal. It's this windy, windy, around the bend, you know, up and down the valley, up and down the road please, sir.

Laura: 24:24

Yeah, two steps forward, one step back, three steps forward, one step back, one step forward, three steps back, but as long as we're trending forward Forward and we have a support system, and that's that's another thing that I think, that that you and I do really, really well, and you know, for the listener, who is the most important person in the room right now, having a support system is so crucial, and I hope that Dem and I can be your support system right now, absolutely.

Laura: 24:48

But whether it's just beverages or it's more about finding like a therapeutic path, you can and will thrive alcohol free, and it doesn't mean that it's. It's always going to be sunshine and roses, and I just want to let you know that I have my down, down, down days too, and asking for help, reaching out for people who can provide that support and help, is a sign of strength, not weakness. Yep, and always, always if ever, if anyone ever needs to ask for help. I'm not a therapist and not a licensed professional, but I'm available via DM up until a certain point, and then, you know, boundaries kick in, but I want to make sure, I want to make sure people know I love that you just said that yes, seriously, like yeah, the DMs are open, but at the same time I have a family.

Laura: 25:33

You know, I have therapy needs.

Laura: 25:35

But really I mean, jokes aside like having a support system is key and finding the right people in your life and network are key. And I might be that person for someone I might not be, but I certainly want to be able to provide resources for folks, and myself included. Honestly, I built this for me and you built what I built for me. And I started with the sobriety collective, which doesn't exist anymore, but it was a blog to kind of showcase that there were alternative sobriety methods, alternative sobriety pathways, and that people were sort of out and proud about being alcohol free.

Laura: 26:09

And I started it because I needed. I needed that community when I felt very alienated by the one that I was in. And I started Boost Free in DC because I wanted to find a way to explore the nation's capital, which is known as a drinking town, from a more healthy perspective. So I think sort of the best products and the best resources and the best things that come out into the world are often created from a need that the person who or the people who started something had.

Deb: 26:38

So true, okay. So the very last question, though what when you go out and about? Let's see you go. You're going to bar or whatever. You're going to restaurant. Is there a certain non-alcoholic cocktail that you will try to order, or what do you order like besides? Just water or coke, or where is that? If that's your drink of choice, unsweetened iced tea is totally fine. There's no for me.

Laura: 26:59

Well, that's a great question and I think where we are now, we can get a little more sophisticated with this. So it depends on the type of place. If I'm going to a pizza place, I want to get an NA beer, or like a burger joint or whatever, I want an NA beer with it. So I'd love to see athletic on the menu. I'd also love to see some other brands too. Like I went somewhere recently and they had. They had Sam Haddam, sam Haddams, sam Haddams, just the haze Sam yeah.

Laura: 27:26

He haddams over there, but like to see some, and not just one option, but a few options. So if I'm going to I don't go very often, but if I'm going to, like a fine dining place, I want a glass of wine to pair with my food Nice and I'm going, you know, out for drinks, which I can do now because like drinks doesn't just have to mean booze. I want to find, like a great cocktail that is just as good, if not better, because it's also better for you without, without the booze. So it depends it certainly depends on the place. Also to kind of do a two for a two for answer.

Laura: 28:02

There are apps now that we can use as well as as well as my global map of alcohol free establishments, but we can use better without buzz cut. And now the new app, delightful, which is a review based app it's going to, it's going to have some places soon, but better without in buzz cut are great apps that people can use to find NA around them. So if they want to go out to a restaurant and don't know if a place has NA, they can see sort of in there in the search results that come up within like a geographic location. So just like a very cool.

Laura: 28:36

They can see if there's a place around them that has any kind of NA on the menu. Again, it's driven by product. So you're going to see like if, if, product distribution. So if if a Heineken zero is distributed in your area, you're going to see that location come up with Heineken zero. It's not necessarily where you can find cocktails on the menu. Sure.

Deb: 28:55

Sure, so we can, we can do that.

Laura: 28:58

And if you happen to be in the DC area, you can certainly look up booze free in DC. But there's all sorts of places. If you just do a lovely little Google search eater, you know eater Louisville, eater DC, eater New York, eater Miami these are really in thrill list as well. A lot of them have roundups of where you can find some great non-alcoholic beverages and cocktails at local establishments. So you can, you can decide what you want to drink from those, those search results. You can do it based on the type of food you're having. My answer is that I just I decide once I see the menu and where I'm. You know it depends on the food I'm having, I think.

Deb: 29:36

I like that. Yeah Right Cause if you're right, if you're in a fancy place, you're not going to be like oh, I'm looking for an NA beer, right, burger joint, pizza joint, nice, to see some options now and also when all else fails and I do love me some takeout.

Laura: 29:50

I have a plethora, as you do as well, Deb A plethora of options, and I need to get through them pretty quickly at home. So I'm going to that's what I'm going to do tonight I'm going to get some takeout and open a few beverages.

Deb: 30:06

Good, good and enjoy. Yeah, laura, thank you, thank you, thank you. I personally thank you for what you've just been to my journey, to so many people, and then, as well, thank you for being a presenter at the mocktail summit it was so fun to record with you. It was so fun to have you there. You are very, very loved. So big time cheers to you, my friend, thank you. Thank you for joining me today.

Laura: 30:26

Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed the world. One non-alcoholic sip at a time.

Deb: 30:32

Big time cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol Free podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.