EP 59 Staying Sober When It’s Hard With JoAnne Pearce of Mock-Ups Mocktails

Going alcohol-free is hard, but staying alcohol-free? Well, that's a whole different ball game. The good news is that my guest today has just the right words of wisdom to keep you going! JoAnne Pearce is the creative mind behind Mock-Ups Mocktails and Canada’s go-to guru for all things alcohol-free sipping. Like many of us, she found herself navigating life’s curveballs and taking a hard look at her relationship with alcohol. To keep her hands busy, she began exploring creative mocktail concoctions that eventually led to her becoming an entrepreneur and book author.

Our conversation is all sorts of fun and silly! JoAnne shares her insights on pushing past the hard moments of sobriety and discovering untapped potential within ourselves. She shares her perspectives on the evolving landscape of mocktails, the intersection of wellness, culinary creativity, and the art of mixology, and even gives us a sneak peek into her creative process. Whether you're on your own sober adventure or just looking to spruce up your alcohol-free options, JoAnne's insights and inventive spirit are guaranteed to spark some serious inspiration and keep you open to all the exciting possibilities out there.

Get in touch with JoAnne!
Website | Instagram | Facebook
Check out JoAnne’s book! Dry Spell

Spilt Zero Proof: Website | Instagram

Distemperance Brand

Wasabi Plum Sour recipe
Liquid Wasabi
Ingredients:

-1 tsp wasabi powder

-1/4 cup hot water, plus 1 tbsp hot water

Method: Use 1 tbsp hot water to form a paste with powdered wasabi, then add remaining hot water.

Wasabi Plum Sour
Ingredients:

-4oz plum juice

-1/2 oz liquid wasabi

-1/2 lemon's worth of juice

-1 egg white

Method: Add all ingredients to shaker and dry shake for 15 seconds, then add ice. Shake again for 5-10 seconds, then strain into a cocktail glass.

Thanks to Giesen 0% Wines for being our exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor!

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You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Transcript

Deb: 0:01

Welcome, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on Life's Broken Record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you or you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Okay you guys. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol Free. I am Deb and I cannot even tell you I feel like I say this every time how excited I am. But really that's the best thing about this podcast is getting to visit with friends, and today we have JoAnne Pearce, who's coming in from Canada. She's one of my favorite people. There's snow behind her. She and I got connected Actually.

Deb: 1:11

Well, she was a guest. She was a presenter at the Mocktail Summit so you may already know her. You might be familiar with her. Everybody loved Joanne at the Mocktail Summit. She presented the tangerine fennel white grape spritzer and we chatted about her beautiful, beautiful mocktail activity book called Dry Spell. She is a leading expert in mocktails and non-alcohol cocktails in Canada but all over the world. Because you are on Instagram and your Instagram handle for everybody to follow you is mockups mocktails plural, both plural, mockups mocktails. So make sure you're following Joanne because she is an absolute delight and it was like an instant connection when you and I got on to record for the summit, like I just I fell in love with you.

JoAnne: 1:55

Yeah, well, because I'd like forgotten my tooth and I was off. I was flustered and you know I'm not quick getting hot flashes yet, but I would have been having one at the same time you would have been, yes, yes, so honestly, like today, recording with you.

Deb: 2:08

I just this is like coffee with a friend or mocktail with a friend. I mean literally you are a joy, and following you on Instagram you just share, you just there's just light and happiness that just everything you put out is just so fun and educational. It's edutainment, it's wonderful mocktail edutainment.

JoAnne: 2:28

So I saved my favorite mug.

Deb: 2:32

Shut up. What is that mug? You have your boobie mug.

JoAnne: 2:34

It's totally boobs. Did you bring that for me? It's my favorite mug and I normally like I always make sure that it's turned around. I love it, but today I was like I can, I can totally go boobs out.

Deb: 2:48

Deb can take it. Deb can absolutely handle that mug. We need to get a photo. I wonder if I can take a picture. Let's see if we can do a little picture. Can you send me? Can you send me one of those? I really need it. Okay, this is going to be a fun recording. Okay, here we go. I would love for you to share your journey breaking up with alcohol or just getting into getting into mocktails. Do you want to share that? You and I can talk for hours, so I know we we already said we're like we're going to keep it up.

JoAnne: 3:17

Yeah, I'll try to keep it free 30 minutes or less. Yeah, like Jimmy John's I, I tell them like that it wasn't a huge moment, because I think that, like we, we need to sort of challenge this notion that it needs to be this like come to Jesus, wake up in a ditch moment If you want to quit drinking. Like we can be preventative of that, of it coming to that. So I just, um, I woke up one day and I felt like a little embarrassed. It was, this was mid pandemic and weed I. You know, it was like meeting friends with my boyfriends for the first time on a zoom and I felt the need to like acapella karaoke, a Bjork song for them.

Deb: 3:56

Oh, that's so nice. Maybe you can do that for us at the end.

JoAnne: 3:59

Like a Bjork song, that's like his own special kind of like shrill. So I felt embarrassed the next day and it was just a little embarrassed. I wasn't super drunk, but it was just that like little bit of shame. And I tried a few alcohol free challenges before and the absence of shame was something that really stuck with me. So I woke up that day and I was like I think I'm kind of done, like I don't want to feel this way anymore. I didn't warn my boyfriend, who's the sweetest man on earth. I was just like no, that's it for me. Um, he's been super cool about it.

JoAnne: 4:29

I know that that can be tough for some relationships.

JoAnne: 4:32

You know, like you're drinking, buddies gone all of a sudden, very true, but I think that, like I always knew I I Jen Orton, who's one of my heroes in life but also a sober hero she said something recently that really resonated and she was like if you Find yourself having a conversation in the mirror, even once or more than once, where you're saying you're drinking too much and you're going to have to deal with this at some point and I had countless conversations like that with myself it was like Joe, you know, you're going to have to deal with this at some point. So I feel lucky that it didn't have to come to, you know, like a, a grisly inflection point. It was just a, really it was. It was just a moment where I think I realized like I don't want to dig myself out of a hole, so let's do it now. And then it was just like I got into, I brought my, my little journey of books. I just started making mocktails. I've always kind of been like a witchy cook.

Deb: 5:29

I love that. A witchy cook.

JoAnne: 5:31

Yeah, exactly, I've always done like infusions and simple serfs and I there was like an almost disturbing kombucha phase where I had like 30 jars of kombucha going and I remember I was living out on an acreage and I went through a breakup at the time and it was terrible and I had to like I had to throw all my mothers out into the woods and I was just like weeping, trying to get these kombucha mothers out of a jar and I was like I'm so sorry because they're living things.

JoAnne: 6:01

Anyways, grieving over the mothers grieving over the mothers, so anyways, but I've had this history of like fermenting my own sodas and stuff like that. So when I quit drinking, I noticed that there weren't that many good options out there. At the time this was in like 2020, in October, you know I had a Paloma and it just tasted like a diet Fanta kind of a thing. So I started making my own and this is the first book that I did and I started photographing them and just sort of like photography was a new hobby for me at the time, so they were just a lot of like. It was just me having fun.

Deb: 6:36

Now that book is different than the sectivity book that is called mockups, mocktails, right.

JoAnne: 6:40

This is just a little volume, yeah, of winter recipes.

Deb: 6:43

I love it.

JoAnne: 6:44

And then I followed that up with the volume of like spring and summer recipes.

JoAnne: 6:47

I love it, yeah, and it was just me having a blast and all of a sudden got some attention from our local media here and because nobody else is taking up space, I don't know if you found the same thing, but it was like if you came into this game at the right time, you got to be an early mover. There was nobody else kind of taking it seriously. And all of a sudden we got the front page of the lifestyle section and then I got offered a column on our local CBC radio station. Really, yeah, Just like built and built and built from there. So you know somebody who really loves validation. I found that like that validation helped to replace the drinking dope in me.

Deb: 7:28

Interesting yeah.

JoAnne: 7:29

Yeah, but then since you know, then I went through a whole journey of like the you know the validation kind of peters off and now it's just grisly hard work to keep going. Yeah, exactly, but that's how it's all started for me was just out of like pure curiosity, and I chose to be in my kitchen today, because this is where everything starts and ends for me is in the kitchen. I just started like boiling every spice in my house and I just started like putting them together in these really weird permutations and combinations and surprising myself and making some like truly disgusting things as well. And so, yeah, I was not economically motivated. I didn't know that this was going to be a thing. I was not like in pursuit of the soft crush or the sober wave that was coming. It was absolutely accidental and it's been an amazing journey and I'm tired, or you know, I've just been resting, but I feel like you understand what this tired is.

Deb: 8:30

I think you know, after the Mocktail Summit I was very tired and I didn't expect to be tired, but I think, like you and I were talking earlier, like it was like putting out all that energy into the world and for whatever reason, I was like beyond, wiped out and, I think, just that emotional, I don't know, laying it out on the table giving birth to the summit. It's terrifying.

JoAnne: 8:52

Yeah, I'm in a vulnerable mood. Yeah, after.

JoAnne: 8:55

I release a book, I'm just like not in a good mood for a little while. Or even if I just do a little TV appearance, you know, it's like the vulnerability and the looking at yourself through the lens of like, what are other people going to think and are they going to understand what I'm doing here? And I think there's an added layer to that with what we're doing, because it's also like, are they all going to think that I'm a drunk, right? No, that's true. Yeah, people who knew me when I was younger, are they out there being like, well, yeah, I'm sure glad that she got herself cleaned up, because I remember this one time.

Deb: 9:31

No, you're right, you're right. And I feel that too, because I mean, there's a lot of people in my life who don't know. I even went through a period where I was drinking more than I kept planning on. You know, I never had like a rock, rock bottom, but it was like that same thing, Like I don't want to live like this anymore, Like I don't want to have these feelings of looking myself in the mirror and like what are you doing? I'm about to turn 50. So, yeah, but there's people in my life who, yeah, it's like they don't know. They don't know what I went through. So, yeah, what are they? What are they thinking? But it doesn't matter, you know. Then I tell myself it doesn't matter, what do I care? What they think, you know, but I do right, we do care.

JoAnne: 10:03

Yeah, oh yeah. I think like, if anything, what not drinking on earth for me? Because there's that like pink cloud phase, which was great, and I miss it sometimes because you're on a mission and you know this before it just becomes part of regular life and when it's that, that's a bumpy one.

JoAnne: 10:21

I found, like, from you know, month six to like 18 was a little bit challenging, because that's when the stuff starts to come up you know Now you've like unsettled the dust at the bottom of your ocean floor and you're seeing what's down there, and I think that, like the people pleasing and the perfectionism and all of that stuff that was driving me to be incredibly productive because that's around the time, too, that I got into manufacturing we have a bottled mocktail line here and it was like I think I shaved eight years off my life just with how absurdly hard I started to work and I saw work replacing the alcohol. So Interesting, yeah, and I think it's really important that we talk about that as people in this space is like it's not all roses when you quit and like hard stuff comes up and sometimes I just get like annoyed with myself. You know you want to break from yourself, but you don't necessarily have the same escape hatch.

Deb: 11:19

That is exactly right. That is exactly right. Yeah, yeah, there's no like okay. I would like to zone out you know there was. I mean it was right before the summit. Really, I mean I was like I almost turned into cocktail mom. I just was like I just wanted that escape hatch. I was just like I just want to go take a bath and have a bottle of wine and just like, take a night off, just check out for just a night.

JoAnne: 11:38

Can you?

Deb: 11:38

imagine. But yeah, those feelings do. I was really surprised me. But it does come back and then there's got to deal with it.

JoAnne: 11:47

I had a friend who put it really well where she said that you know like alcohol helps, you have a sort of like myopic focus, so like a narrowed focus, when I think about what I really miss is like sitting at the kitchen table, you know, having drinking red wine with friends and chain smoking cigarettes. I miss smoking.

Deb: 12:04

Yeah, yeah.

JoAnne: 12:04

And you just like have the focus and the desire to sit there and shoot the shit for four hours, you know, talk about your past and like I don't want to do that anymore.

Deb: 12:16

Right.

JoAnne: 12:17

Like this is great, we're going to talk for about half an hour, you know, maybe an hour. Then it's like okay, I want to go do stuff. Or you know, like the brain doesn't stop.

Deb: 12:26

Totally.

JoAnne: 12:27

So I do miss that Like the fuzzing of the edges. Now everything is just like so sharp all the time, but it's also great.

Deb: 12:35

It is great, I know, I know and I totally feel that I mean absolutely. But yes, there is that. There are those moments where you're like man, right now would be really nice to just fuzz all the edges, just no, just for a day.

Deb: 12:47

Just like a one day, a little fuzz the edges. But no, I'm not, I am not, absolutely not, absolutely not Okay. In your book Dry Spell, which I love, love, love, love, I love that you shared in the introduction you just share that you hope this book helps to occupy all your new free time as well as your hands, cause in the early days my hands were like mice, caught out in the open, always looking for something to scurry to. Making mocktails gave them a task to complete and a home to nest in, and that resonated with me so much because that was how I started my mocktail journey. It was like I was bored at night. I didn't wanna do puzzles. I didn't wanna do, you know. I can only do Sudoku so many times, you know, and I needed something to do, kept me busy, you know, Really gave me something to do. So I love this cause. It can really help people to be able to experiment in, you know, their new alcohol-free lifestyle.

JoAnne: 13:40

I remember at one point like day four was always the hurdle for me, like day four was always the hardest day, because you're feeling better by then, from whatever binge night caused you to want to quit in the first place, whatever Bjork song you've sung at canela, and I, just like my partner and I, had gone up for a bike ride and I got a flat tire and all of a sudden it was like nothing could console me.

JoAnne: 14:07

I was just it was a beautiful day, which makes it worse. Like we know. Nice weather is a trigger for me for sure, cause I just want to go pound cheap beer on a patio and like absolutely nothing that he offered can make me feel better or that I could offer myself, and that's cause I didn't have that toolkit. You build it over time, but in the beginning you don't have that toolkit. Like your paths to what makes you feel better. They're there, grown over.

Deb: 14:36

You're right.

JoAnne: 14:37

I think it's Catherine Gray who put it that way Whereas, like you know you're, the one highway to dopamine is alcohol, and you know it's like do you want to go for a walk? No, like, do you want to have a bath? No, no. Do you want a snack? Maybe, but no.

Deb: 14:53

But also, no, I really just want a beer and I was on the patio. Yeah, yeah, that is very interesting. It's true that one. It's like the highway has been built, the four lane highway of dopamine straight, you know, with the alcohol, has been built over the years and all the other paths are grown over. There's weeds on them. You can't walk on it anymore.

JoAnne: 15:12

And now you got to start exploring these little like goat trails and they're going to take you somewhere great. But it sucks at first and that's like the best advice I could give anybody is like know that it's going to suck sometimes.

Deb: 15:23

Yeah.

JoAnne: 15:25

Embrace that it's going to suck, manage those expectations and just like start developing your tools for discomfort, for, like the bramble and thorny things that you know you're going to hit along the way. But all of a sudden you're going to find these treasures off the path.

Deb: 15:41

That's so true, yeah, yeah, and the views that you have and everything that you're going to discover along the way and the confidence and the yeah.

JoAnne: 15:49

that's like a quiet, real confidence.

Deb: 15:53

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Deb: 16:39

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JoAnne: 17:25

No, not at all. No, my background is in graphic design.

Deb: 17:28

I love it.

JoAnne: 17:29

And my partner is the journalist, so I never thought my brother is like an actor. He's the one who's like TV and movies. So my mom, like she's just so incredibly bemused by this whole thing. It's been three years, but she's still. Every time I go on TV he's like yeah, who would have thought my shy little daughter, my little Joe.

Deb: 17:50

My little Joe With her boob mug that she's drinking tea out of while we have our recording. I can't wait to post the picture of this. You are the best, okay, you're the best, okay. I just I love that, like you can, you can go into your refrigerator, like when we recorded for the summit you were talking about, like the flavor Bible, which I know a lot of people liked that. You chatted about that. That you can, you know, go into your fridge and find, like, what do you have left? You know you've got some basil. Okay, you can make some basil simple syrup. Or, you know, find different things, maybe. Or, if you're like me, go into your pantry and find expired items and see if they're still good and see if they're, message you immediately, and if they're not, good, don't use them, but if they are still good, maybe try.

Deb: 18:33

Okay, so you are. You're much healthier than I am, you're much more organic and I love it Making your own shrubs. I've never made my own shrub, or throughout any mothers anywhere, but I love it. I love it. Okay, all right. So how's the industry? How it's changing, keeping our mocktails quality and like what you would say is a mocktail. So you start wherever you want.

JoAnne: 18:54

Okay, um, well, okay, yeah, the industry is like I see the industry sort of developing along like these three branches right now, just like it's changed so much in the last six months. Totally, I think that mocktails were sort of seen as this, like pejorative exercise before, is like a thing that you settle for and nobody took them that seriously, which is why we could do whatever we wanted. It was like the wild west, it's true. It's so true. I didn't feel that much pressure to like be on my game and I could just do whatever I thought was interesting. And all of a sudden that's like well, there's, you know, people just like competition and the sheer volume of products that's out there, like your knowledge of the products that are available, is something I totally envy, because I'm just over here like trying to make simple surrogate on a wasabi.

Deb: 19:43

My knowledge, you must not know me. I haven't heard anything and I'm like I don't know.

JoAnne: 19:49

But you like, I've been so steady about reviewing the products that are coming out, and so it's just been overwhelming right. And it is time where I felt like defensive when I was, like I don't you know, like all this sort of capitalism and stuff, and I didn't want to share for a minute. And then I realized like it's fine.

Deb: 20:09

There's so much room.

JoAnne: 20:10

There's so much room and like let the people innovate in the areas that they're good at. So the three sort of branches that I see, because one is like the wellness industry, where it's starting to overlap and a little bit with diet culture, which can make me like, maybe a little uncomfortable.

Deb: 20:28

Agree.

JoAnne: 20:30

Especially somebody who's like feeling pressure to come out with these full flavor mocktails and then people want them for like 10 calories or less. And they want them to be all natural, and I'm like I don't know what to tell you, but you can't have those three things at once. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 10 calories or less and full flavor, but it's not going to be all natural, you know.

Deb: 20:48

So that's true.

JoAnne: 20:50

There's that branch, but I'd like there's also a lot of cool stuff happening in there. There's, you know, like the adaptogens and the functional fungi and the acidophilus, but to me it's kind of like already the not drinking is the wellness act. Absolutely Like I don't know that we need our mocktails to be everything for us and like do you know what I mean?

JoAnne: 21:09

Absolutely Like have every sip, yeah, and flavor. I find as little as like tends to be a secondary consideration sometimes in those where I'm like the primary consideration or those maybe that's a branch that I'm starting to notice being a little more gendered as well.

Deb: 21:24

Okay.

JoAnne: 21:25

Makes me feel a little more like marketed yeah, so that's been interesting to watch.

Deb: 21:29

The change yeah.

JoAnne: 21:30

Yeah, and then there's also. There's the like copycat, for lack of a better term, that sounds like the one to one.

Deb: 21:38

So, like you have, like the tequila's, the whiskey's.

JoAnne: 21:41

Exactly. I find that to be its own interesting branch, and I'm a fan of that one because it's like watching Olympic level gymnasts do their thing, where you're like that's cool. No idea how to do it, but I'm impressed that you do.

Deb: 21:55

Same Yep. Yeah, like I'm drinking the non-alcoholic wines and like I have no idea how you made this magic happen, but I love it all yeah.

JoAnne: 22:01

Yeah, right, and that one is, though, like I. I'm very cautious when I go into that territory with people, because that's where people like that's where they're most likely to be disappointed is when they are trying to replace something.

Deb: 22:16

That's true.

JoAnne: 22:17

And I find that those are the mocktails that if they're not done extremely well, people will be like oh, it tastes like it has a hole in it. You know that's cause they're tasting or they're, they're drinking to replace something.

Deb: 22:28

They're expecting it to taste exactly like. Maybe you know, yeah, especially when they're trying like. Or sometimes people don't realize. You know it's always brand new and they're listening. Today, you know they don't. A lot of people don't realize. I didn't know in the beginning. Like you can't do a shot of non-alcoholic whiskey, you know it's not going to taste like whiskey. You put it in a mocktail, put it in an alcohol cocktail, it's going to taste, can taste delicious, but typically they're not meant to be just sift on. There are few. There are some that can be.

JoAnne: 22:53

Yeah, like spiritless bourbon.

Deb: 22:55

I'll put it in my mouth. I think the the spiced yeah, I think the spiced one can be. It's delicious, Used to be called Highland malt. I think it's now traditional.

JoAnne: 23:04

See, you know your products way better than me by Liars.

Deb: 23:06

No, I don't, no, I don't. That's a mistake, it's all a mistake, it's a fluke. But there are a couple, but yeah, sorry, all that, to say yes, yeah, it's not affecting, like it to be exactly the same and it's not yeah.

JoAnne: 23:17

That's because, like, as long as you are drinking it to replace your alcoholic drink, I think that you are tasting it for what it is not.

Deb: 23:25

Yeah.

JoAnne: 23:25

Instead of what it is. But once you get over that hump, all of a sudden that product category opens up to you because you're like, whoa cool, they distilled hay to make this one. What? Yeah, yeah, and then you can appreciate them for these really complex botanical sort of reductions that they are. And then the third one, and that's where I like to live and that's the culinary approach.

Deb: 23:47

Yeah.

JoAnne: 23:48

And that's just like putting really weird stuff together and seeing what comes out.

Deb: 23:52

I love it. Yes, that is your lane, that is your specialty and that's what I really is.

JoAnne: 23:58

It really is, yeah, and I'm like, don't worry. Like when I started saying, I was feeling like all of a sudden there's urgency and I was feeling competitive and I was like, oh no, I need to start getting into XYZ game and I need to start reviewing more products and all of that stuff, and I just like nope, just blinders on and I'm spying to myself too Blinders on, and for everybody, like we, just there's only one, you.

Deb: 24:21

There's only one, me right, there's only one. Exactly who's listening? There's only one, you. No one else can do exactly what you're doing, Like you're in that culinary lane. I have absolutely no desire ever in a million years to be in that lane with you. I would cheer you on. I'm so excited for what you're doing. I love what you're doing. I love your activity book. I love the recipes you have in here. The simple serps have I ever made? You know I'm not make. I'm not home. You know this expired ingredient. How can I make a simple serp out of this? You know what I mean. So like I love that, Like there is such a there's a place for each of us, for each of us and for our uniqueness.

JoAnne: 24:54

So that's absolutely it, and I think that, like when you do what you find interesting, that comes with fun and it's sincere Right.

Deb: 25:02

Yeah, it's authentic and you're having a good time and it keeps giving you energy. You're putting energy into the world, you're sharing that and it's giving you energy. You know it's giving you joy.

JoAnne: 25:11

I brought my journal to show you my process through that a little bit. Okay, I want to see, Because I've just been giving myself a little space lately to just chill out because the burnout I was failing it, it was real. So I've just started to like this is how I think is. Like you know, just like, pick an ingredient, Did you draw those? Yeah? I don't have a drawing since I was like 14. And then I've been like writing. It looks like a photo, little like essays about it. I'm onto Wasabi right now.

Deb: 25:41

What are you doing with Wasabi oh?

JoAnne: 25:44

all kinds of stuff. So I started Look how beautiful, that is Thank you. Well, first I like, this is my, you know, I try it with every single thing I can find and make notes about it, and then that turns into recipes.

Deb: 25:57

So you are amazing.

JoAnne: 25:59

This is kind of my approach.

Deb: 26:01

Your process.

JoAnne: 26:02

Yeah, and so it's very much like to not go in with any expectations and to just go in with curiosity. I wonder what this would be like, because I think mocktails are sort of one of the final culinary frontiers where we can really surprise people. Obviously, you know, like there's you can still surprise people with food, but it's where people don't have any expectations outside of that sort of like one to one cocktail comparison.

JoAnne: 26:28

But I think this approach is like my favorite drink right now was a Wasabi plum sour and it's incredible and you wouldn't really know what to expect by me just telling you that, right, you'd have to try it.

Deb: 26:38

Okay, can you give us the? You don't have to do it right now, but will you give me the recipe and we can put it in the show notes? Oh, totally, but I would love to. And the other thing too I have the membership. That'd be fun to even make that drink on a happy half hour with the latest, let's do it To actually make your new favorite.

JoAnne: 26:57

Absolutely.

Deb: 26:58

Yes, I love wasabi, Like when I have sushi. I've never had it in a mocktail, so let's do it.

JoAnne: 27:02

Because it's another one of the ways to like get the burn right.

Deb: 27:05

Yeah, we definitely had a lot of drinks with chili in it. I miss that.

JoAnne: 27:08

But wasabi is like a whole other direction and it's that, it's. My boyfriend calls it a singular note of fury, singular note of fury.

Deb: 27:18

Like like he's the writer. You said he's the writer. Yes, he's the writer, that's a good way to put it. Yes, that's so perfect. Well, you said you mentioned just about like being curious, and I think that, you know, goes back to even just maybe somebody who's listening, who's maybe just sober curious, you know, just lean into that, like how might this feel? You know, how might this feel if I get to day four, you know? Or how might this feel if I maybe take a week off or maybe drink a mocktail in between my cocktails? You know, lean into that curiosity a little bit.

JoAnne: 27:50

Absolutely Like. I think we all feel like it's that voice, or you talk to yourself in the mirror. We all feel that little like inkling inside of us. I think maybe you have this now too, because we're.

JoAnne: 28:02

I know that I'm sort of become a lightning rod for the people in my life where they all of a sudden like to tell me how much they drink and that they probably should drink less. You know, and I think they all, that little voice in us, that's like what, if you did drink less, what might you be capable of? Was it Bradley Cooper that said that? You know, he realized that if he kept drinking he wouldn't be able to to realize his full potential. So true, yeah, and I think that that is the reward that would be.

JoAnne: 28:30

What I have to say to anybody who's thinking about embarking on that journey of curiosity is that if you can push through those walls of discomfort and those moments of discomfort and those day fours, you will surprise yourself in ways that you you can't even conceive of yet and you will all of a sudden tap into the ability to realize that potential. And I know it's not like that for everybody. I know for some people, you know, when they stop drinking it. On covers all kinds of stuff and on covers depression and anxiety. And I'm not saying it's going to be magical.

Deb: 29:06

Absolutely.

JoAnne: 29:07

But I am saying it does give you an opportunity to acknowledge that those things are going on in the first place and address them, which is part of the journey towards you know, like finding that potential and removing this sort of roadblocks of fear that can fall in the way.

JoAnne: 29:26

So, like I found when I was drinking and creative, I would just, you know, be in this wild frenzy at night with the wine nearby and knock it over all the time my car was constantly covered in red wine. Yeah, exactly, make these like really bold, amazing things and then I would never show them to anybody the next day because it wasn't coming from that like quiet, confident, creative place and I think, yeah, hang on and it's worth it. And know that it's going to suck sometimes. Like be realistic with your expectations. That would be my advice. But, yeah, lean in and be curious, absolutely Like. My favorite quality in any human being is curiosity.

Deb: 30:06

Curiosity. Yeah, so true, so true. You mentioned that you have a bottled brand up in Canada. What is the name of it? I want to make sure anybody are Canadian listeners know.

JoAnne: 30:15

It's called distemperance.

Deb: 30:17

Distemperance. And where would they be able to find? It's not in the States, right, it's not here. No, not yet. Okay, okay.

JoAnne: 30:23

So we're here in Alberta. You have a much better chance of finding us. Okay, right now we're like going through all this stuff of figuring out labeled requirements and how to be a national brand, and all that stuff that stresses me out.

Deb: 30:35

So I'm, I'm just going to yes, yep, lean back, Yep, yep, let it, it'll happen. It'll happen in the right time. Yeah, yeah exactly.

JoAnne: 30:43

So our thing, our focus, is super cool. It's our focus specifically on prairie agriculture from like where, where I am in Edmonton, alberta is not known for its fruit.

Deb: 30:55

Okay.

JoAnne: 30:56

Like BC is because we basically live in a tundra.

Deb: 31:01

I was going to say you're in a snow tundra right now. I see, like, is it all year long like that? Yeah, but what's it like in August? Yeah, maybe I'll come up in August. It's hot, yeah, you're really used to that.

JoAnne: 31:12

So but like the, it actually makes our fruit perfect for mocktails, because it's often like sour and bitter and tannic and all of the those sort of qualities that we normally wouldn't want from our fruit in a pie, but I think it does make it really interesting in a mocktail. So every flavor of the Distemperance line actually features locally grown agriculture.

JoAnne: 31:31

So it's like Saskatoon's has caps, beet sugar, local honey. I really want to get my hands on some dandelion root. So this is again where my nerdyness kind of comes into play, of course. Like we went to scale one of my recipes and they were like what the hell? You know, it costs like $10 a bottle to produce.

Deb: 31:50

What is this? Well, I have plenty of dandelions in my yard in the summer. I can send to you, so if you'd like some Kentucky flavors.

JoAnne: 31:56

we can add that I absolutely would. I will come down there and forage with you any day.

Deb: 32:01

Yes, yes, in my front yard. Perfect, just don't use any mouth up. Yes, no, not good. I want to make sure everybody knows where to find you. Mockupsmocktailsca is your website, and then splitca.

JoAnne: 32:17

Spills. I know I got to change.

Deb: 32:20

No, spilt Sorry. I just said it wrong, sorry, everybody says split.

JoAnne: 32:22

So that's indicating spilt yeah.

Deb: 32:26

S-P-I-L-Tca is your other website. Okay, and then, joe, last question If you're going out and about, you're going to a restaurant or bar and they don't have a mocktail on the menu, what would you order? Oh, diet Coke is actually, but is there like a mocktail that you would ever ask them to make for you? Or something like, if you're at a bar and you're like, oh, can you make me? Is there something simple that, like somebody could and sorry, I'm totally putting it in his mouth. If you don't have an answer, it's totally fine, like no stress.

JoAnne: 32:54

Well, but I this isn't quite a direct answer to your question. Can I share an observation? I've noticed?

Deb: 32:58

Yes, I'd love it, Yep.

JoAnne: 32:59

Mocktails in restaurants.

Deb: 33:00

Yes.

JoAnne: 33:01

Is it like? Weirdly, I've gone to some nice restaurants lately. I've treated it, it's been lovely, but weirdly, the nicer restaurants I find their mocktail game can be weaker.

Deb: 33:10

What's interesting?

JoAnne: 33:11

there is that, I think, because they want to show that they're like with it and more forward thinking. They're relying too heavily on the spirits, because they're like look, we have the spirits and then they're taking their cocktails and they're just swapping the spirit out and but like very spirit forward mocktails, you know, like old fashions and negronies. So you're like you guys, like you're not looking at this as a holistic thing, you know, in this sort of race to be like, but we're using the alcohol free spirits, you know right.

JoAnne: 33:40

You know, what we're doing. You're actually kind of neglecting the drink as a whole, Whereas I find the like franchise chains that I go to they tend to have strong mocktail game because they're probably trying to save money. So they're yeah, they're coming at it with, like, more juices and syrups and mixing that way. So that's just my interesting observation. Oh, I have an answer for you. Okay, okay, I love it 100%. A Shirley Temple. I love Shirley Temple.

Deb: 34:07

Do you?

JoAnne: 34:08

really yeah. So like in the, I love it. I've been writing an essay about it.

Deb: 34:15

That's the last thing I would ever order. Okay, yes, so Shirley Temple would be what you would order for real.

JoAnne: 34:20

Yeah. So, like I think, when I got into this game I was all like wanted to be super cool, to cool and be like, oh yeah, thank God, we don't have to drink Shirley Temple anymore. Yes, and then I went to see Hamilton here at our local like big theater venue and all they had was Shirley temples and I was like, oh, I went with a sober friend and then this thing was so good.

Deb: 34:40

It was a revelation.

JoAnne: 34:42

The Shirley's not so bad. It was so good and it was like it got me thinking that, like mocktails can be sweet, it's okay but they don't have to only be sweet. Yep yeah, shirley Temple hated Shirley temples, in fact.

Deb: 34:56

Oh, I didn't know that. I did not know that I know you're trying to wrap up the interview.

JoAnne: 35:01

We can do it in a different time.

Deb: 35:02

No, no, I did not know that. Yes, no, I don't want to wrap up the interview. That's the thing I really would love to just talk for like hours. I know when I just come up to Alberta and just play in the snow, make snow angels together, I think he would like to hear I feel like it's probably got some like Kentucky vibes, some.

Deb: 35:17

Kentucky. If the people are nice, then they have Kentucky vibes, which they're like you, then then yeah, I mean Kentucky. When I moved here, I just could not believe how nice people were. I couldn't get over it. When I went to the grocery store the first time, it was Target wherever and I'll never forget, the lady you know put her stuff in. She had their car, she put the bags in her car and then she walked the cart back to the place where the carts go and I was like what is she doing? Like in California, they just like they don't care. People don't care. I lived in California for 10 years. They didn't care. So to come here and people like actually care, and they, you know, knock on your door and say welcome to the neighborhood.

JoAnne: 35:54

Yeah, it's that Midwest and I was raised here, so I moved to Montreal for eight years and there it's like it's not the same deal and yeah, it's California. Well, yeah, everyone's just like super cool and busy. Smoking.

Deb: 36:07

That's where the smoking comes in, Make cooler than you were the Montreal yes.

JoAnne: 36:11

And then I came home and I was like, oh, it's my people. I don't have to pretend to not care, like yeah, it was, it's okay to care, yes it's a good thing.

Deb: 36:19

It's a good thing to care. Okay, I want to make sure everybody's following you Mockups, mocktails on Instagram and then you can order Jo's book, which I love. It's called Dry Spell. This is on her website, mockupsmocktailsca. You are a joy. Thank you for being a presenter at the Mocktail Summit. You are a hit. I had many people mention you by name, by the lady with the coloring book, so, but you are, you're really. I love your Instagram and just eat, like even you're. You're doing a thing about what New Year's Eve with your dress on and you were like all dolled up at eight in the morning and anyway, you're just, you are fun. Everybody needs to follow along because you're a lot of fun. Jo, thank you for coming on the podcast today. Thank you, thank you Big time cheers to you, my friend. I love you so much.

JoAnne: 37:06

Sorry, just seeing that nipple in the screen, nipple Little belly button.

Deb: 37:13

It's an innie. It's not an outie, it's an innie.

JoAnne: 37:16

I love you. Thanks so much.

Deb: 37:19

Big time cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, host about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode. Thanks for watching.