Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 81 Breaking Free From Mommy Wine Culture With Hadley Sorensen

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 81

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Hey friends, I’m thrilled to have Hadley Sorensen with me on the podcast, author of The Dirty Truth on Social Drinking, mom of three boys, and a lifelong runner. Sparked by social awkwardness at 14, Hadley found solace in alcohol and became quite the social drinker into adulthood. But it was the pressures of mommy wine culture and maintaining a particular social media persona that truly deepened her struggle. 

In this episode, we dive into Hadley's experiences with mommy wine culture, the challenges of quitting during the pandemic, and the self-care practices that helped her succeed. We also discuss the writing and publication of her latest book, how sobriety impacts family life, and hear Hadley's practical advice for anyone questioning their relationship with alcohol. Tune in now and let the journey to a thriving, alcohol-free life begin!


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You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Deb:

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Okay, hey, friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom. I am so excited. I'm always excited, but today in particular, you guys we have the most special guest.

Deb:

Hadley Sorensen has written a book called the Dirty Truth on Social Drinking. I personally am not much of a reader and if you guys could see this right now, all the pages that I have turned down, things that I have underlined, starred all over this book that she has written. This is a page turner, and a page turner literally. You're going to turn the pages down and you're going to want to save so many of the things, hadley, that you wrote in this book. Can I give you a proper introduction? Can I read your bio? Yes, sure, would that be all right? Okay, here, let's let everybody know so we all know who we're talking to. Okay, hadley Sorensen is the mom of three boys, a lifelong runner oh good for you. A writer. Her book the Dirty Truth on Social Drinking was released May 14th. Congratulations, her first book.

Deb:

As an enthusiastic social drinker. Throughout her life, she always felt like her relationship with alcohol was problematic. It wasn't about how much or how often she drank. It was about how she felt when she did Boy. I know our listeners can relate to that. I can as well. Two and a half years ago, she woke up with her last hangover, her heart screaming that sobriety was the right choice. She had no idea that a whole new, beautiful life was about to unfold, and now she uses her social media platform to tell her story with the hope it reaches someone struggling, as she was. Her goal is to help others realize that anyone can quit drinking at any time, for any reason, and no rock bottom is required. Oh my gosh, I love that Hadley's Instagram handle. You guys make sure you're following hers. Hadley underscore Sorensen S-O-R-E-N-S-E-N.

Hadley:

Did I spell that right?

Deb:

Yes, you have the right Instagram handle, okay, so everybody can follow along. You have a huge following, so okay, welcome.

Hadley:

How are you? Thank you so much. Thank you for the introduction and for having me here. I'm so excited.

Deb:

This is phenomenal. Your book is so real and as a former mommy wine culture, you know trophy winning drinker right, I had my bell ring for wine. You know this is like what we were all thinking. You know that still voice like telling, like you know all of it. So I can't wait to hear your story. I can't wait for you to share your story. I should say I know I want to talk about mommy wine culture. I want to talk about your book and just the idea that you don't have to have a big quote unquote problem to walk away from drinking.

Deb:

So do you want to talk about mommy wine culture and how that played into your.

Hadley:

Yeah. So I started drinking when I was 14. And I hear that from so many people for some reason maybe it's our generation, I don't know what it was that seems to be such a common age. I don't know what it was that seems to be such a common age. And I was this incredibly socially awkward, introvert struggle to fit in all of that. And all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, this is the ticket. This turns me into who I'm supposed to be.

Hadley:

And so, even though I felt like something was off with me and drinking from that very first time, I thought that I had to keep going. So I dove headfirst into the college binge drinking scene and when I graduated from college, I got married relatively soon out of college and my husband had a four-year-old son at the time. So I became a stepmom immediately. Super young, super like mommy. Wine culture was like just starting social media. It wasn't even really a thing, but it was like Ooh, being a stepmom is hard. Have a glass of wine. So all the same people who had been binge drinking in college were now sitting around in our cul-de-sac in suburbia. But it was different, because we were wearing expensive clothes and we were drinking nice wine and we were you know.

Deb:

Yeah, elevated, it was a different experience.

Hadley:

Yeah, yes, we were. We were fancy and sophisticated.

Deb:

Quote unquote elevated Right right Right, right.

Hadley:

And so then, once I had our two younger sons and social media was was kind of picking up and I left my really stressful job in the mortgage industry to stay home with them and I ended up starting a fitness business, a fitness coaching business. That was all social media driven and I am not kidding you when I tell you that I built my entire online persona around being this fit mom, this marathon runner who loves good wine, and it was my whole like shtick on social media and it gives me a pit in my stomach and I make myself share now on Instagram the cringy old posts I did to you know, as a sort of education for the people who are still doing it out there. But everything was oh, isn't this funny. It's been a stressful day. My kids are driving me bonkers. I need wine, like you said. You had the bell that said bring wine. I had the socks that said if you can read this, bring me a glass of wine. I had tea towels and mugs.

Hadley:

One year for Christmas, my stepson got me a coffee mug that said this might be wine and I thought it was so cute and clever and it was really sad and I always felt like something was off, even though I wasn't always a daily drinker. You said in my intro it wasn't about how much or how often. It was about how I felt when I did. But it was sort of like I was hiding behind this mommy wine persona, because if I'm making jokes about it on the internet it's not a problem. I'm telling everybody how much I drink. It's not like I'm doing it in secret. It was this bizarre phenomenon. I felt like it was so funny and relatable and clever, but it was really just sort of sad.

Deb:

Now, right now, looking back, right, and I had those socks. I still have my belt. I need to post it because it's so true, right, we have so many. It was like a joke. It was like, oh, it's like this mug, it could be wine, and inside we're crumbling. Did you think you were the only mom kind of struggling with? Oh, yes, yeah, okay, yes.

Hadley:

I thought I was totally alone because I looked around and I thought that everyone else because everyone else was drinking, just like I drank I wasn't doing anything out of the norm and I would wake up after a Saturday night in the cul-de-sac with a hangover and I felt like my world is imploding and I slid into a depressive episode and my anxiety was off the charts. And everybody else seems to just roll with it and move on. And it was like am I? Am I somehow experiencing alcohol differently than everyone around me? Like what I thought? So I thought I was the only one that felt this way.

Deb:

Even though I've been I've been sober now three and a half years, but to even hear you say it, it's reassuring again to me. You know, I felt the same way, like. I felt the same way. Like, am I the crazy? Like am I? Am I the only one? I felt I thought I was. I was the only one.

Hadley:

It shows us how sneaky alcohol is. That it that it not only sucks us in, but it makes us think that something is wrong with us.

Deb:

Very isolating, very isolating. Okay, in your book you shared some really really hard things that you went through and I know it was like kind of around the pandemic and I know that's when drinking for myself picked up for so many of us right, we were, maybe you know we were mommy wine culture and it picked up even more. Can you share about the hard things that you've gone through? I think it's really really it's really impactful what you shared.

Hadley:

Crazy 2020. It was wild for all of us, right it was. I feel like nobody looks back and says, oh, that was a good year, the way it sort of started 2019, the very last month of 2019, my husband turned 50 and I threw him this crazy 80s party surpriseer. That was my thing and, badly, it was my alter ego and I hated her and I always said she was done, she was never coming back out. But we know that's not how it works. And so I went into the night saying I was going to be so good and so responsible. And then I woke up the next morning like what the hell happened and I was hungover for a week, physically at least. A depressive episode like all the things. I was miserable. So I took a break from drinking for that whole December, like most of January. Then I had a few drinks here and there and I I was like feeling very proud of myself, like I've done it, I've achieved moderation, I've cracked the code, I've figured it out, like this is what I've been working towards for, you know, 40 years.

Hadley:

And then the pandemic hit and at first I was fine I still wasn't really drinking much and then I realized that the kids weren't going back to school, I realized that we were stuck at home and I started opening a bottle of wine and having just one big old glass at five while I watched, remember, the daily press conferences. Oh yeah I, the world is imploding, I need this glass of wine. And then, a couple of weeks in, my husband was diagnosed with cancer. We suddenly had to figure out how to navigate cancer treatment with two small kids during a pandemic when it was like, okay, we're going to have a compromised immune system. It's not like we can send the kids to the neighbor's house during daily radiation every day and then chemo every other week. It was like, how do we do this?

Hadley:

And then, a week before he started chemo, he got laid off from work, which was like right, I think I say in the book. I remember we were at our lake house and I walked down to the dock and I was like chugging white claws as I paced back and forth on the dock and called my best friend to tell her that he'd been laid off. I couldn't even believe it. And then my grandfather died and then my in-laws got hit by this crazy like financial scam. It was just like one. It was almost to the point where we just we were kind of laughing about it. What else?

Deb:

What else can happen? What else can?

Hadley:

happen. So, yeah, my drinking got more consistent than it ever had been before. It was like that glass or two of wine every day. Sometimes more People set up a meal train for us when he was going through treatment and they would bring a bottle of wine with the food. And I mean, my husband couldn't drink, it was only me, but I would, you know, get him in bed. I would get the kids set up with a movie and it was like, clearly I'm going to need to drink to get through this and everyone would make the jokes. You know, if I was I don't know how you're dealing with this I would be an alcoholic, because it's our go-to, it's how we handle stress and that's kind of it was sort of the tipping point for me.

Deb:

Oh my gosh, wow. Can you share about, okay, when you stopped drinking? Share how you broke up with is Rosé right?

Hadley:

Mine was Chardonnay, you were.

Deb:

Rosé, rosé, all day was you.

Hadley:

Yes, don't worry, I also had that tank top. Did you have a tank top? Okay, good, I did Rosé all day. Yeah, so in 2021, when the world kind of started to open up again, we were finally able to and he was done with treatment. He's cancer-free, yay, everything is good now. So just to put that out there.

Deb:

That's wonderful.

Hadley:

That's wonderful. We started having friends coming to the lake house again and family, and it was so fun to see people and when people come to the lake house it was like vacation for them, right? So they wanted a vacation drink and you know that's different than everyday drinking yep and so we were like, well, we have to throw down with them.

Hadley:

So I would maybe have, you know, a glass or two of wine during the week, but then on the weekend we would have people there and we would just binge all weekend. It's like vacation drinking. Rules say that you can wake up and have a mimosa at 10 am before you go out on the boat, and then you can have white claw with lunch and you have to have a Corona in your hand when you're on the boat, that kind of stuff. So Sunday, monday would roll around and I was like toxic, I felt awful, I'd be so hungover, I'd be anxious, I'd be depressed, and then it would be like Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, before I would start to feel normal again. And then I'd start the whole cycle over and it was just like wash, rinse, repeat all summer.

Hadley:

And there had been all these like the 80s party was the first one.

Hadley:

There had been lots of little events that I felt like kept nudging me closer. It wasn't out of the blue, like I was finally sort of starting to consider that maybe something was going to need to change. And so a friend and I drank a couple bottles of rosé just sitting by the lake the night before. I fell asleep at like 8 o'clock you know as one does after your day drinking, and I woke up at like 3 or 4 am with the spins and the chills and I was supposed to go for a long run that day, and so I was so mad at myself and I just I was laying there and I was like this is it. I just I felt like I was like filled with a knowing, I just like something has to change. This time felt different than all the others, and so I decided it was going to be my last hangover and I didn't know how I was going to do it, but I was going to do it and that's what started all of this.

Deb:

Filled with a knowing right. It was that little voice for so long, and then filled with a knowing right. It was that little voice for so long and then filled with a knowing. What did you? You talk about in the book. So what did you envision being alcohol-free would be for you? What did you envision this would be like?

Hadley:

Well, you know, at first, kind of leading up to this point, I thought, like so many of us did, I have to do this, but it's going to suck. This is going to be a huge sacrifice, but I have to do it. But I quickly, I think, realized that that wasn't the case. It started to feel like wait, maybe this wasn't a sacrifice, maybe it was more like a gift or a second chance. Maybe all the things I thought would be bad about it are really going to be good. You start to feel like you start to realize that you've been duped for so long.

Deb:

So true, it's so true. Okay, as you guys know, I love Giesen 0% wines. Their Sauvignon Blanc is my go-to on a regular basis, but they recently launched a delicious sparkling brute 0%, which is quickly becoming a fan favorite. I am so proud to have Giesen as the exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast.

Deb:

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Deb:

With Giesen 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it and if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story what helped you get on your sober track. I know you talk about quit lit, which I didn't even know what that. I didn't even had never heard that term before I became, I guess, sober. I don't even think. When I was sober curious I knew the word quit lit right when I was reading it.

Hadley:

I don't think I would have called it that, I don't think I knew what it was. But yeah, reading this book about education, educating myself on alcohol, yeah, so Quit Like a Woman was the first book that I read by Holly Whitaker, and, to be fair, I think I had bought it earlier that summer and it had been sitting there like staring at me, and so that was one of the first things I said when I was in bed that morning with that last hangover. I was like, okay, I'm going to read that book that I bought.

Hadley:

I'm going to read that book and that'll be the first thing that I did and it was so eye-opening. I think that's when I started to really look back on the mommy wine stuff and think, ew, what have I been doing? Oh, you're kind of embarrassed. And I started to realize that it was kind of like a feminist issue, like there were so many more layers to this that I had never considered. So then I read a ton of those books. I just I devoured them. I found a community right. I sort of leaned into the Instagram space. I, early on, started working with this app, the sobriety app out of Australia, and it was a really cool little community. It's not around anymore. That's great, yeah. And then, and tons of self-care, I like I just I babied myself for a while and I think it was, it was what I needed. So, yeah, I sort of designed my own little path, but it worked for me.

Deb:

I love that. Okay, what special self. What are some of the self-care things that you did that you look back on and are glad that you did for yourself?

Hadley:

Nothing super glamorous, right? I don't think of self-care.

Deb:

Same. I think of it like yeah, it can be the littlest things, Yep.

Hadley:

Like I slept a ton, Like I stopped waking up at 5am to go for runs and I slept in. I went to bed early. I still exercise tons, but I listened to my body. So sometimes it was like I need more rest days, which I'm typically not very good at as an endurance runner. I think it's also why I pushed through the drinking stuff for so long. I was used to beating up my body and being able to just bounce back. But for me, self-care too is I'm a huge introvert, so I need lots of alone time. So it was like finding ways to get alone time. It was reading, it was journaling, it was just that stuff that doesn't feel very glamorous but fills your soul Fills your soul Exactly.

Deb:

Yeah, For me it's meeting my sister at the pool. I've declared our summer of self-care and building our businesses. We both have businesses and it's like you have to feed your soul. You have to, and it can be taking a bath at night or whatever just simple sleeping. Yeah, I'm good at that. That. I'm really good at actually, Hanley.

Hadley:

Well, yeah, I am too.

Deb:

Now I feel like.

Hadley:

I've gotten. I'm like, oh no, I think my body's telling me I just need to sit on the couch and read this book.

Deb:

Yes, exactly this is my kind of self-care oh my gosh. Okay, so what led you to write your book? I feel like I don't want to ask you who's this book for. This book's for everybody. So if you're thinking about alcohol and maybe your relationship with alcohol, this book is for you. I have a membership and I'm going to ask the ladies to read this book. It's so good so fantastic.

Deb:

I really like. I mean just literally just open it up as we're sitting here talking. So page 51, you just ask yourself these questions like do you feel that alcohol is making your life worse, you know, instead of better? I like that. You're just the curiosity. You're allowing the reader to really think through their relationship with alcohol. So what led you to write this book?

Hadley:

Well, I, you know I said that in the beginning I read all of these Quidlet books and they were so powerful and they were such a big part of my journey but I felt sort of a disconnect with them because I couldn't really relate. I didn't see myself in those stories. I saw parts of it, but they were more you know there's all this debate about rock bottom but they were more your sort of stereotypical rock bottom stories than what I had. Yep, I fell very much into what we now sometimes refer to as the gray area. I didn't drink every day, even Sometimes I went weeks or months. My story.

Hadley:

I had a problem, but I was at a different spot on that alcohol use disorder spectrum, which is fine, right, we need stories from every angle of that spectrum. At the time there weren't really any that were kind of coming at it from my perspective Since then. Now there's a few great books in that area, great books in that area. But I started to realize because I was sharing little bits of my story on social media, since I was already kind of out there, and I was amazed by how many people were saying, oh my gosh, me too, me too, and I thought, well, maybe I can be the one to tell the story from the gray area. I can share a story that people like me will relate to and be like. I can share a story that people like me will relate to and be like. I see myself in that. Now I didn't see myself in these other books, so I decided to just figure it out and I went for it.

Deb:

That's awesome. That's awesome. How long did it take you to write your book?

Hadley:

I wrote for about a year. It took me about a year to write. I said I'm going to do all the writing first. I'm not going to figure out how to publish it because I feel like that will slow me down, I'll get wrapped up around the axle on that and I'll stall. So I just finished and I was a writer. This wasn't totally out of the blue and I had been journaling a lot. So after about a year I said okay, I think I have this thing. Now I have to figure out how to get it out into the world.

Deb:

I'm so glad you did. I'm so glad you figured it out, thank you.

Hadley:

Yeah, I really.

Deb:

I just it's really moving, you know, to hear we're just so lied to. Like you said, we were duped. We were duped all of us like into. Like I mean, it's everywhere it it's everywhere, it's in Target, you don't even have to walk down the wine aisle, it's like at the end caps by the towels, practically. I mean it's just shoved down our throats that this is how we mom, this is how you're going to get through being a mom, and so to pull back the curtain. You don't have to do this anymore. Okay, you shared a story in your book about you and your family were playing a game. What is it? Card? Something against humanity? What's that game called? I'm so bad at games.

Hadley:

What is it? It's cards against humanity, which is like wildly inappropriate for kids. But there's a um, there was like a kid's version that was called kids against maturity.

Deb:

Oh, okay, okay, okay, yeah, okay. Can you share the story, cause I thought it was so sweet just how we can change how our kids see us and are drinking, because I know I feel bad, I know my kids have memories of me drinking more than I intended to and I would love for you to share that story because it's really beautiful how your kids saw you so differently after you had stopped drinking.

Hadley:

Oh, thanks, it was one of those moments where I was like I'm on the right path. So we're playing this game and it's like apples to apples or Cards Against Humanity, where you I'm trying to remember exactly how it goes down with the cards. Everybody has these answer cards and the person who's it like reads a question or something, and you all put in your cards that you think they're going to find the funniest right, and they read through them and then they pick their favorite one and one of the answer cards I have said mom's red wine teeth and I was like, oh, that's so cringy on so many levels when you think about it, because that means like mom's having red wine teeth are a big enough thing that they made it into this game. And so it just, for whatever reason I don't remember what the question was that he read, but it kind of fit, and so I was like I'm going to put it in just to see what happens.

Hadley:

And I thought, oh, maybe he'll think this is funny or whatever. And he was reading them and he went through and he got to mine and he was like this one is stupid, it doesn't even make sense. Mom doesn't even drink red wine and he like, threw it and kept going and I was like I thought I was going to get a point for that, but but it was. It was just one of those simple little moments where I thought this is, this is now how they're going to remember, they remember that you yeah, that you're not the mommy.

Deb:

red red wine.

Hadley:

How old were. How old are your kids?

Deb:

I think your kids are older than mine. How old were they? I have two girls, my oldest daughter's 22. And then my younger daughter is 16. So, yeah, I mean they bought me that bell ring for wine. It was a little Christmas like a silly gift. Mom, let's get this for mom. Yeah, oh, my gosh, I love just that you're sharing that you don't have to be a problem drinker. You don't have to be a problem drinker to evaluate your relationship, and one of your chapters is called Booze Nation. I mean, we've just been lied to. And where do you live? Oh, you're in Virginia, is that right?

Hadley:

Yeah, I'm in the suburbs of DC.

Deb:

Okay. Okay, because there's a great bottle shop. There's a great um now not called bottle shop, now called um generation N a up in, uh, lafayette, indiana. So so, yeah, when I saw your chapter in here called um generation booze, I was like, yes, and we're going from that to a generation of of N a. Okay. So what's your friends reaction? They're like your, your in real life friends. Um, what have they said about you?

Hadley:

not drinking and how's that impacted your relationships? My in real life friends all still drink and I don't judge them for that. They don't judge me for not drinking and it's been really kind of a beautiful thing. I hear horror stories right. We all hear stories about people who were not supportive and I feel blessed that I did not have that experience, but it still took time to figure it out. I definitely some of my friends were kind of like oh bummer, really.

Deb:

You're not gonna be fun anymore.

Hadley:

Because I loved drinking with you. Yeah, I mean, I was usually the drunkest one at the party and I was funny to laugh at and there was somebody to tell stories about and all the things that I hated the next day probably made it fun for other people, but once they learned that this was important to me and I was happier and healthier and more functional All the things that giving it up did for me they've been so supportive. They've been my biggest cheerleaders. On the book oh, really, yes, I had this little kind of delayed book launch party last week and it was this like you did. Congratulations, thank you, it was this perfect. Looking around. It was this perfect like looking around. It was like all my favorite people who've supported me through this from the very beginning and they're all drinkers, but they were there buying non-alcoholic wine to take home and I mean it was just. It was a really cool. It was a really cool moment.

Deb:

I love that. Yeah, I love that. Don't have to be a non-drinker to support someone who is a non-drinker. Right, it's okay, you know, it's okay. It's like you can support your vegetarian friends, you know, and still be having a burger. It's okay, yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, right, it's all okay, okay. So I want to ask you before we go. I want to ask you when you're out and about, you kind of reach for now in your non-alcoholic endeavors.

Hadley:

Yeah Well, first of all, let me share that I have like an entire folder on Instagram of your recipes saved. Oh, that's hilarious. Oh well, good, I'm trying to like work my way through. I hope you're enjoying them? Yes, but my go-to is always anything with ginger beer. I love ginger beer and lime and mint.

Hadley:

So, like I mean, I feel like you can do so much with it and it's really simple. So around here so many places have non-alcoholic or mocktail menus. But if they don't like, if you have a mule on your menu, you know, give me that without the booze. And they look at me like I'm crazy and they still charge me 15 bucks for it. But you know that's DC and Kentucky charge you five. My husband's like wait a second. I thought this was going to save us money, yeah it does.

Deb:

It's so funny. I thought the same thing. I thought I was going to save so much money, but I've spent so much money on non-alcoholic uh, particularly wine. It's probably like the thing I reach for the most is the non-alcoholic wine Is it.

Hadley:

Is that your?

Deb:

go-to. It is, I think, because I was a wine drinker and I still enjoy to have a glass of wine or a bottle, but I don't want to have a hangover, so I do love the wines. There's no negative. Yeah, and I'm so boring I mean I usually stay with so many of the same things. You find what you tried. Speaking of ginger beer, have you ever tried the hibiscus Q mixers? It has sugar in it, though I'm sorry if you're like no low sugar, but it's. It's got a little peppery, a little spice to it. It's so good and you could mix it, you know, with some sparkling water to kind of cut it a little bit, but it's delicious.

Hadley:

Yeah, I need to try that.

Deb:

Q mixers. Hibiscus is probably my favorite of the ginger beers. But anyway, hadley, any last, any advice before we go that you would like to share me with somebody who's kind of in that space? I mean, I know, obviously, read your book, grab the book. Okay, today's Prime Day, so wherever books can be found, yeah.

Hadley:

My advice is even if you have the slightest nudge, the slightest inkling that you need to re-examine your relationship with alcohol, take the time to do it, take the time to really think about it, work through it. Don't just keep ignoring your intuition. If your intuition is trying to tell you something, it usually knows what it's talking about, right, so don't ignore it for as long as I did.

Deb:

It's good, really, really really good advice. Yeah, really good advice. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for everything you're doing, thank you for the year plus that you put into writing your book and for putting this out in the world. Your story is really, really inspiring, so thank you.

Deb:

Thank you for having me. I'm honored, so great to meet you Big time. Cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others. Post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.