Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 91 Surviving the Early Days of Sobriety With Kate Taylor

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 91

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In this episode, I sit down with the amazing Kate Taylor who has become an influential voice on Instagram for those seeking a sober lifestyle. Kate opens up about her journey of breaking free from the "detox to retox" cycle and the over 1000 days of sobriety she now celebrates. She shares the pivotal moment of recording a heartfelt message to her future sober self, which lit a fire inside her to stay motivated and finally quit alcohol.

We dive into the real stuff — how alcohol led her to isolation and self-deception, how quitting drinking changed her friendships and her marriage (spoiler: it's so much nicer now), and the clarity and freedom that comes with sobriety. Kate even gets honest about the awkward moments, like being the only one sober, or navigating sobriety when your spouse still drinks. 

We also chat about our love of mocktails (even when our ice cubes don't turn out as Pinterest-worthy as we'd like) and the incredible support we’ve both found in the online sober community. Trust me, you’ll love listening to Kate’s wisdom, so grab your favorite alcohol-free drink and join us for this fun, encouraging conversation!


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A huge thank you to the sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free podcast!
Giesen 0% Wines

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Deb:

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide, so sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Hey friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom. I am your host and I am so excited today because Kate Taylor is joining us from across the pond.

Deb:

You may be following her already on Instagram. She's walking the straight line. If you're not following her, please do so. Her account is amazing. Kate, this is the first time you have actually spoken screen to screen here. I love following you. I was listening to your podcast. That's now an archived podcast, right, you finished. You and your co-host have finished. Your podcast is amazing, so if anybody wants to go back and listen, it's called the Sober Effect Podcast, but I love what you have as your bio in your Instagram handle. It says a writer choosing life without alcohol because I've drunk my share and half of yours and I could have the same thing in my bio, right, it's like what were we doing? What were we doing all those years.

Kate:

Yeah, I mean, I really don't know, because I don't remember. It's not even a phrase, it's true.

Deb:

You have photographs? Yeah, is there evidence of what was happening?

Kate:

Yeah, dangerous huh, yeah, not many. In my case they were all deleted or torn up or burned. You know, that kind of stuff I hope.

Deb:

Yes, yes, well, I'm so happy you're here. Okay, so you just celebrated we're recording in September, and I believe it was this month, you celebrated 1000 days alcohol free joining the Kama Club. Did you know there was such a thing as the comma club?

Kate:

no, no, and people said congratulations. I was like I love that. What a great phrase. I would have been even more desperate to hit a thousand if I knew I would be part of such a club. I love it.

Deb:

It's so cool. A gal in my membership sent me a little necklace with a comma on it, with a tiny little comma oh so sweet I I should have worn it today for us. Yes, so, so sweet, and yeah, it's such a huge milestone. I remember getting to 10 days, a hundred days, right? Double digits, triple digits.

Kate:

I think the first 10 and then you know, a hundred just seemed so far off and terrifying. But 10 was amazing. And then even two weeks and the beginning I remember I bought myself a present at the end of each week because I needed things to keep me going and I needed to kind of cheer myself on and celebrate my achievements. And I have stopped that now, although maybe I shouldn't have, but it was so huge for someone like me who's in. You know, I'm in my 40s and I've drunk since I was 14 pretty much every day. So seven days was just massive. It was kind of like I'm not going to be able to do it. I've just I've got to do it. Can I do it?

Kate:

You know, so much was going on and I don't actually know my day count now. I just I knew when I hit a thousand, but it just becomes part of life, but it's it's such an achievement and I'm still smiling about it. I can't believe it's me. You kind of go through this thing Like this is who I am now. I've really proved it and I've settled into it. It's my comfort zone, it's my new happy place, you know.

Deb:

I love that. Settled into it Right Because right like could never have imagined, could never have imagined what was day one like for you. What was that like your first day of this breakup?

Kate:

You know, I think because of the way I stopped and for those of you who don't know, I basically recorded myself, really drunk, on the 20th of December you know, a week before Christmas and I was crying into the phone. I don't actually remember filming it, but I was crying into the phone and basically drunk me, begging, sober me to stop and saying this isn't you please stop, this stuff is ruining your life. And I spoke while I slurred for about five minutes I think, and I just had had enough and something in me said pull out your phone. Because I've never seen myself drunk properly and because I was on my own in my house, I recorded it to myself. It was kind of a safe space and it was also something that I couldn't delete or ignore because it was me begging myself. It wasn't someone else saying I think you should stop, in which case the defense comes up. You drink as much. You do this. I'm not that bad.

Kate:

But because it was me and I had to watch myself, it was a real wake up call and something shifted the next day, so I had this kind of fire in my belly. I was angry. For the first time it wasn't like someone was taking something away that I liked, that I couldn't have. It was like actually I'm really cross at alcohol. I know it was my choice to drink it, but I'm really angry at everything it's taken from me. And so that anger got me through those first couple of days. I mean, I got the sweats at night. It wasn't nice. I wasn't really bad, I didn't have a really bad withdrawal, but it wasn't comfortable. And I remember being really annoyed at day four or five, kind of going I should be sleeping really well, I should look better. This isn't fair, but actually it was kind of again, I thought of it as all this horrible, poisonous, bad stuff leaving my body. And when I thought of it that way, I just kind of tried to reframe everything so that I was fighting a battle, you know, because when you look at it that way, you can do it because you're doing it for good rather than you're not allowed something. It was like I will not let this stuff back in my system.

Kate:

So the first few days were just really about not drinking and I had two hour long baths, I went for loads of walks and I just kept saying just do it, just do it, just keep going. And I literally just said that to myself and that's all I focused on. I didn't worry about other people, I didn't worry about day seven. I just worried about today and not drinking and self-talk and trying to listen to podcasts and remind myself there's a reason you're doing this. Listen to these other people. They're just like you. They've got similar stories. They've done it. Listen to what they're saying. You know and I just that's quite a long answer, isn't it? For how was day one? But that're saying, you know and I just that's quite a long answer, isn't it? For how was day one? But that's, you know, I get quite animated about it because it was big. You know, it was huge, it's huge, it's so huge.

Deb:

I did not know you had recorded yourself yeah yeah, you're shocked when you saw it.

Kate:

Yeah, well, I didn't actually watch the whole thing for months and I've only watched the full thing about three or four times ever, because it's really hard to watch. I've shared a few clips of it online on my Instagram account, but it's, it's really hard to watch yourself and it makes me feel quite emotional talking about it in such a state and I'm so sad and I'm so desperate and I'm so. I just want something to be different. And it's all those feelings that you push down the next day and by five or six o'clock you say, no, I'm okay, I'm all right, I'm going to have a glass of wine, and you forget them.

Kate:

But when they're right there, recorded and you can watch them, it hits differently because you forget when you're drunk and you're saying things the next day when you remember it, you're always more eloquent. You're not sobbing and wiping your nose and you know crying and going. You can do better than this. You know, and I was watching it and just thinking that's me. That's how I've been feeling for years. You thinking that's me, that's how I've been feeling for years. Three or four times a week I've been feeling like that and I can see it here. So yeah, it was a really difficult thing to do, but actually if I hadn't done it, I would probably still be drinking.

Deb:

What a miracle, yeah, To have that. I remember I was in a group of women who were taking a challenge when I first stopped drinking and we were using like a video app videoing each other and my very first video I wasn't drunk at the time, but just sharing with them and I'd never shared with anybody. These are total strangers and I was sharing with them how I have to stop Like I have. I cannot live like this anymore. And it's cathartic, isn't it, To say it, or to go back and look at that video, to see myself like sitting on my green couch in my living room and feeling so desperate like I can't live like this anymore.

Kate:

Yeah, it's like you see people who go to kind of the Peruvian rainforests and they've got someone rubbing their back or pouring water over their heads and they're screaming out into the jungle. It was a bit like that. That's all I could manage in my capacity in my life. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I've got a full-time job, but for me that was my scream into the jungle. It was my desperate. You've got to do this. And something, despite the fact I'd had two bottles of wine, something made me go. Fact, I'd had two bottles of wine. Something made me go. This is what you need and I did it.

Kate:

But I mean, it's powerful and everyone's got a different story about what finally got them to stop. And I find those fascinating because they're so different and often it will be an accident or a situation where people think I've got to stop, but it felt so simple at the time. Think I've got to stop, but it felt so simple at the time. But my mind just started exploding. All the what ifs, all the what could be, what will I be like? I don't have any hobbies. I remember thinking that I literally drinking is my only hobby. That's so embarrassing to say that, but I haven't ever even realized it.

Deb:

Yep, same, yeah, no, it was like. What did I do in the evening? I wanted to, just I wanted to drink my wine. I didn't want, I didn't want to be bothered with anything. Yeah, I didn't want. I didn't want any hobbies. Are you kidding me? I want to be home.

Kate:

I'd like to be home with my wine, please.

Deb:

I'm good, everybody go to bed. I have I remember being like excited when Larry go to bed early. I'd be like, oh, he's going to bed early. Okay, good night. You have a big day tomorrow, you know.

Kate:

Yeah.

Deb:

It's not until two in the morning, you know, possibly for one. For one, please. Yes, table for one. Oh my gosh.

Kate:

Yeah, but it wasn't. And it's funny because in our heads we're this sophisticated person sitting having the wine we deserve, but actually we're just sitting drinking liquid drugs, which is what I think it is. Sitting on a sofa watching Netflix, watching something that I'll probably watch again in a month and won't even realize I've watched it. Sitting there pouring this stuff into my body, altering my brain, making me feel bad. I mean, when you actually look at it and describe it, it's awful. It's like self-harm, isn't it?

Deb:

Absolutely, absolutely. Something you shared on your podcast I thought was you're so eloquent. You said something about how, like we're chasing the how when we're drinking, we're chasing the sunset right Of the buzz of you know what the alcohol is doing to us, but really our whole life is falling out. The boot, as you said, at the boot of your car, right the trunk. We would say here and here, right, so and everything that we care about is falling out, but we're just chasing this, chasing this. I thought that was so powerful.

Kate:

Yeah, I forgot. I said that. Yeah, it was like driving along the motorway or the freeway and you're focused on that one thing, getting that feeling that you had. For me it was before I drank, it was that excitement. And then the first glass, that was the only great bit of drinking, if I'm honest. But as you're doing it, you're so focused on that as you say, everything's flying out the back and you don't even notice. And then, every now and then, you stop and you turn around to see how everything's getting on. Is everyone all right? There's no people there. You know your house, your life, your job. It's gone and you have no idea when it fell out. It's just disappeared because you've just been focusing on this stuff and also focusing on trying to stay alive. You know it's that thing.

Kate:

When I was hung over before I would work loads, I'd clean the house, I'd have to prove I was still capable of being normal, because and I was just punishing myself you shouldn't have to do that. You know, these days I just go along and I'm aware of what's going on around me. I don't have to look, I don't have to check, because I'm in my right mind, I understand things, I'm intuitive. You know, I'm also a loner and I didn't realize that before. I love being on my own, but I'm a people watcher.

Kate:

But I never had time to do that because I was either avoiding people because I couldn't remember what I'd said or done, or I was just like leave me alone because you'll be looking at how much I drink. You know, life just changes and your, your focus, changes. I think that's what I'm trying to say. You, you aren't focused on one thing. You suddenly get this spectrum of colors and it's like taking the blinkers off the horse. You see things you would never have noticed before, and I think that's sort of the pink cloud thing that people talk about. It's euphoric, it's amazing, and you're kind of like this is what life's meant to be like.

Deb:

It just took me a long time to realize Amazing, yeah, I mean for years, years, yeah. And to trade that shame with pride. Now, right To not be like, okay, I have to clean the house so I can prove that I am. You know, it's like you're in your right mind all day, you know.

Kate:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I wasn't well at all last weekend and I just wanted to go to bed and I wanted to sleep all weekend and I did and everyone was kind of going are you okay? My kids were like are you okay, mom, do you want anything? I never allowed myself to do things like that. Well A, I just assumed anytime I was ill it was because of alcohol. So I felt guilty and you've got to get up, kate, you know, don't let them see you like this, because they'll think that you know.

Kate:

So it also means that not only is it pride, but it's self-care, because you can tell what's actually wrong with you, what's going on. I've got this emotion, this feeling, and it's not because I'm drinking, it's not because I'm embarrassed or because I'm tired or cranky. Then what is it for? And it becomes like a mystery. You can start to really understand yourself and how you react to things and what makes you happy. Also, warnings like these friendships without alcohol, there's nothing there. They weren't actually friendships. They were other people who drank as much as me, who didn't make me feel bad about it. So I would go out with them because we would sit and drink and actually it didn't matter what we spoke about, because I was enabling them. They were enabling me to just drink, and that is really sad as well. That's a sad realization, but a really important one If you want a fulfilled, happy life with connections with people who you are genuinely connecting with. You know, it's just, there's so much, there's so many layers, aren't there?

Deb:

So much, yeah, and it's like you're seeing now life is in technicolor. Yeah, okay, some of you know that I accidentally stopped drinking when I did a challenge to take a month off from alcohol, my BFF Chardonnay and now I live an alcohol-free lifestyle and I absolutely love it. But I also realized that's not for everybody. Originally my goal was just to moderate. I wanted to learn how to moderate. So you might be thinking I would love to cut back a bit, but I am not ready to quit cold turkey, so you don't have to. I have a little tip for you. It's called Sunnyside. It's the number one alcohol moderation app in the United States and maybe it would be a fit for you if you're looking for no pressure, just support and tools to help you actually drink less. With Sunnyside, you set your own pace, track your drinks and connect with a community of people who get it. You pick a plan that fits your goals and, the best part, 96% of people who use Sunnyside drink less after just 90 days. That's huge. So if you're ready to cut back your drinking without feeling overwhelmed, maybe give Sunnyside a shot. Visit the link in the show notes to get a free 15-day trial and check out Sunnyside for yourself.

Deb:

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Deb:

Globally available, look for Giesen 0% wines wherever you shop for your non-alcoholic options. Their family of alcohol-free wines include the most effervescent member of the family, the sparkling brute 0%, which is absolutely delicious for any celebration. My personal favorite although I do love them all is the Sauvignon Blanc, coming in at only 100 calories for the entire bottle and, not to be missed, the other members of their 0% family the Riesling, the Premium Red Blend, the Rosé, the Pinot Gris. With Giesen's 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it, and if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story. How have things changed in your relationship with your spouse and your kids and if there's changes about that, if you don't mind sharing.

Kate:

No, I don't mind sharing that. I mean, I'm a big share a day, but you know you can ask me anything.

Kate:

I've got no off switch, which is probably where the problem started. You and me both right, yeah, yeah. But my kids have, just from day one, been my biggest supporters. You know I get I got notes 10 days, mom and I'd find them and my daughter would make me little paper flowers and say I'm so proud of you. And my husband drank for the first two years of me giving up. So that was tricky and it's one of those things where my relationship is different to anyone else's. You can't say this is what you do, this is what you shouldn't do.

Kate:

I didn't mind him drinking and I don't mind being around people drinking. I know a lot of people hate it and that's cool, that's their thing. But I didn't mind it, but I did mind the effects I could see it was having on him. And when you love someone and you can see what they're doing and you know and you're saying you keep telling me how proud you are of me, why are you still drinking?

Kate:

It makes it really awkward and I think eventually I sort of said I don't want to be married to someone who drinks a lot. I just don't, and that's the truth. And I'm not telling you to stop because I know there's no point in that and I would never dream of doing that. But eventually he did say I'm actually going to quit for a year and he's nine months into that now and it's been so much nicer. I mean I didn't realize how nice it would be, but that relationship has got so much I mean I don't argue with him anymore, ever really. I mean you put the, you know the sponge in the dirty dish.

Deb:

I'm going to get angry, you know, down those kinds of things.

Kate:

I'm sure they're standard in every relationship, every marriage. Yes, yeah, exactly. But apart from that, everything has got better. You know, my friendship group has changed. I'd say it was first of all cut in half and I would go past the pub and I'd see friends sitting there having a drink and I would be jealous and upset and then I'd think but would you have gone? And the answer is no.

Kate:

And I try and look at it from other people's perspective and I think they just felt awkward, you know, like she probably doesn't want to see us drink and maybe we shouldn't invite her. And we change and people who know us have to adapt to that. They don't know how to be around us, they don't want to say something that will upset us, they don't know if we're still going to laugh or be fun or am I going to come out and start preaching? So it's an adaption for everyone and you have to understand that and give things time and, like in any relationship and with any topic, you evolve, you change and as long as you talk and you're honest, it will be what it will be, but it will be the right outcome.

Kate:

And I don't know what will happen in the future if he starts drinking again. But I just don't think I could be with someone who drank a lot anymore because I find it gross, and I said, the smell on its own is just revolting, isn't it? Once you stop it's gross, but everything else has gotten so much better. It's almost like it's become more concentrated the friendships. Every time I see a friend for a walk or a coffee or dinner, we talk and I come away thinking I love them so much or I wish I could have had longer to have that conversation, whereas before I would forget everything. It was pointless conversation, whereas before I would forget everything, it was pointless. So things have just leveled up massively in all areas of my life.

Deb:

What an encouragement If anybody's listening and they're thinking about sobriety or they're thinking about taking a break from alcohol. What an encouragement how everything's going to level up. Nothing gets worse Like nothing. There's not anything in my life or anything right in your life where you're like man drinking really made that better. No, yeah nothing.

Kate:

Well, one thing got worse. What's that? My my boobs shrunk, but that's because I lost weight. But I was, like my bra's, feeling really baggy here and then it was kind of like I've lost a bit of weight because of the alcohol. I can deal with that, but that's the only thing that I'm not thrilled about. I have to say you can cut this out if you want.

Deb:

No, we're not cutting it out. No, I had a double mastectomy. It has nothing to do with drinking, but I can understand a little bit of that. Like man, this is not good. Yeah, what's going on here?

Kate:

What's going on. But you can live with that, can't you? And it's, it's, you know it's, it's nothing and we, we carry on. But but the rest I mean the face and everything else, it's the glow is amazing. I mean, I literally cannot count the number of people who have said to me you look incredible, what have you done? And I do, I look 10 years younger than I did three years ago. I mean, it's just bonkers, it really is.

Deb:

It's like reverse aging. I mean it's literally. Yeah, yeah, turn the clock backwards. Yeah, how was the sober community for you Like, especially when you first stopped drinking, or even now you know how's the sober community? I know both of us are on Instagram. How's it been of encouragement to you.

Kate:

I mean it's been incredible. I joined when I was about 100 days sober and I just needed more accountability and it was much smaller back then. It's grown, which is fantastic, but it's such a lovely place and the encouragement someone's always online, so if you write something, someone will respond and people understand. And it's such a weird experience, you know, when there's a whole group of people scattered who you won't meet most of them and we're all part of this club, which is a club none of us really want to be a part of, let's be honest, but we are part of it.

Kate:

So there's this instant understanding which is really hard to explain to the friends you've got, and also you don't necessarily want to talk to them about it because you don't want to drag them in and make them feel like you're analyzing them. Because when you tell a friend who drinks alcohol so bad for you, I didn't realize I feel so much better they automatically will think you're judging their drinking. And I would have as well, so to speak, to other people who get it, who have been in that dark place. You know, I was arrested after I went to a knitting club on like a Tuesday night when I had two little kids at home because I told a policeman to F off and I ended up in a police cell. I mean, that doesn't happen to people and it's not something I chat about with my friends, but on this community people will go. Something like that happened to me the shame, the embarrassment and they don't go on and on about it, they just instantly get it and you.

Kate:

It's kind of like confidence in numbers. Once you know other people get it, you just feel this instant bond and when you're struggling they are there to hold you up, without a doubt. And you know you might have to look around and find your right people. And, like with any community, there will be people who aren't necessarily what they seem at the beginning. True, that's fine too.

Kate:

That's in life as well, but I don't think I'd be here. I definitely wouldn't have had so much fun getting here without them. I just think it's brilliant. You must feel the same, do you?

Deb:

Yeah, I like that. You said that. Yes, I do feel that way, like I would not have had as much fun and I am having. I'm still having fun. You know, three and a half years in still having fun encouraging others, seeing others, you know, just coming into the sober community or you know, just being able to cheer them on and to have people cheering me on, is it? It makes it so much more fun. And you're exactly right.

Deb:

People in our I mean friends who still drink, or even my husband, who doesn't struggle with drinking. He hasn't had a drink in years but he could take it or leave it, as opposed to me who was like, okay, is anybody going to finish this bottle, because if not, I'll finish it Too late. It's gone. It's gone. Do we have another one? Do we have another one? But yeah, to have people who just get it is invaluable. It's invaluable. Yeah, okay, do you drink? We do talk about mocktails here. Do you drink mocktails? Do you drink non-alcoholic drinks? If so, what do you drink? What are kind of some of your favorites?

Kate:

um.

Deb:

I love alcohol-free drinks and okay, I know a lot of people don't.

Kate:

I think a lot of people who go to aa stay away from it because I think they get the advice. But alcohol-free beer was my go-to at the beginning especially. You know I'd have one or two a night and I don't know what it did mentally. It just stopped the cravings for me and I didn't drink beer as a drinker. I drank wine and I don't like alcohol-free wine. I love sparkling wine interesting.

Kate:

I don't like alcohol-free red, which was mine. So maybe it's because it's different, but I love sparkling. I love putting different flavors in with it, with like a fizzy rose or something, and I actually I drink because I like the taste. Now you know I'm not good. I mean some of these things that you make and these ice cubes and things you know different garnishes and I try and it looks yeah, so much stuff.

Deb:

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm pretty basic. Yeah, but there's some people on Instagram.

Kate:

Mine looks like I'm a children's TV presenter and I've made it with a three-year-old. It does not look, even when I follow things, exactly, but it tastes the same, I'm sure, and that's all I care about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I love it and I'm. The longer I'm sober, the more interested I'm getting in mocktails and combinations. And why wouldn't I just make myself a nice drink and take a bit of time, put some music on, chop some stuff up and mix things together? You know, I love it. That's the answer. I love it, and I'm loving it more and more the more I go.

Deb:

That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Yes, I'm definitely not the garnish queen, that's for sure. When you go out yeah, and some of these girls on Instagram, some of the ice that they're making I'm like what are you doing? I mean, this takes days, people. I put some of those cubes in my freezer. They're supposed to take them out after 24 hours so that they're clear. I, of course, forgot. Three days later I'm like, oh my gosh, those ice cubes are in there and they're all cloudy. This is not working.

Kate:

I like you even more now.

Deb:

It's all a mess over here, kate. I made a drink the other day. I baptized the counter.

Kate:

I had like stuff everywhere, whatever, but that's real, deb, that's real, you know, and I love watching the beautiful drinks. But you're always smiling and laughing in your videos and I don't realize it until my face aches that I'm smiling along with you like I'm sitting in the kitchen.

Kate:

Oh, good, good that's the beauty of Instagram is you. You become familiar with people, you get to know their quirkiness and and what, what they're like, their sense of humor, and you really look forward to seeing what they're doing that evening. And you're you know it's that's nice, I always thought it was sad, like they're not real friends, but actually they. They are a really important part of my life and if people think that's sad, I don't care.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah, no, I feel the same way. I never would have understood like that. I have friends. I have friends that I've never met in real life, especially now in the soap, now with the sober community and with people I'm connected with. It's like I've met like my. I'll be like well, I've never met them, but I but I know them. How do you know them? I'm like no, I know them exactly. Whatever, it's fantastic, it is so good. Okay, if you go out to a restaurant, is there like a certain thing that you'll ask for, like a certain thing you'll order, or what do you like to order when you go out and about?

Kate:

I'm a bit nervous about drinking it out, because I've had. I tried to quit once before and I got a drink that had alcohol in it and I had a sip and I then started drinking again. I'm really nervous about drinking out, which is why I'm trying to do stuff at home, so I only get bottled beer, alcohol-free beer, when I go out and in England it's getting better, but there is not a lot. Most places will only sell Heineken Zero, which I don't mind, but there's not a lot of options.

Kate:

And when you do buy a mocktail, it's sometimes even more expensive than a cocktail which winds me up, so I just tend to drink fizzy water or alcohol-free beer when I'm out and about.

Deb:

I think that's good. Yeah, and that's really good, just for somebody to be aware when you're out to maybe have somebody, have somebody else sip it for you If you're concerned that maybe there is alcohol in it, because if you're not watching the bartender make it, or maybe the waitress or waiter didn't hear you right or didn't hear the. You know what you requested. Sometimes, yeah, you don't want to be drinking. Obviously, if you're not wanting to, for sure, okay, any last bit of advice for anybody on their alcohol-free journey. I just love talking to you. I'm so happy to meet you really.

Kate:

Thank you for being on my show today. Oh me too. Thank you for inviting me. I was so excited.

Deb:

Seriously, I just love you.

Kate:

I just think you know I am a great friend, I'm a loyal friend and I care a lot about my friends. If a friend of mine, who I love to turn to me and told me my story and in honesty, and actually said this is how I'm feeling, this is what I'm doing, this is how it's making me feel, this is what's happening in my head, I know the advice I would give them and I never took that advice for myself. And now, when I look at myself, I think if a friend told me they were feeling this way or they were struggling with this, what would I say to them? And I'm trying to do that to myself.

Kate:

And I think, if people are honest about where they are and they imagine they were giving advice about that, try and take your own advice, because you need to come first. You are so important, you are so precious and valuable and you need to be first. You are so important, you are so precious and valuable and you need to be okay. So take your own advice, be honest about where you're at and just give it a go, because what's the worst that can happen? Because in most of our cases, the worst that could happen if we carried on is really tragic. So just give it a go and be kind and tell yourself you love yourself a lot, even if it feels really weird.

Deb:

Such great advice. Such great advice, kate, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I dream to have you as a guest. Thank you for taking the time. I know it's nighttime over across the pond here, so it is.

Kate:

It's 25 to nine, nearly bedtime Gosh yes, it's bedtime.

Deb:

Yeah, you need to be in your pajamas. Yes, Thank you for spending your evening with me. I really, really appreciate it Big time. Cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flair or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.