Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 92 Make a Mocktail With Jen Butler

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 92

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 Two years ago, my dear friend Jen Butler and I partciplated in a Sober October program that would solidify our friendship forever. Jen is a sober coach, writer, fitness instructor, and one of the most inspiring women I know. She’s also a repeat guest, so if you’d like to hear more of her story in depth, check out EP 13. Today, I’m thrilled to have Jen back on the podcast to celebrate her incredible path of sobriety and offer an exciting peek into the upcoming November launch of my new book, The Happiest Hour!

But Jen has her own BIG update to share as well. She is currently halfway through her memoir manuscript (yay!!), and in our chat, we dive into all the behind-the-scenes of her writing journey. From juggling life as a stay-at-home-mom to navigating a career shift, Jen opens up about the highs and lows, all while keeping it real. She’s also the genius behind the Best Mom Never Substack, where she writes about motherhood, midlife, perimenopause, and raising middle schoolers, and has plenty of wisdom in these areas to pass along.

I’m so excited for you to hear this one—it’s full of laughs and plenty of encouragement. So grab your favorite alcohol-free drink, get cozy, and join me and Jen for an episode that’ll remind you that the best is yet to come!


Get in touch with Jen!
Website | Instagram | Facebook
Subscribe to her Substack Best Mom Never
BYOB Course: Build Your Own Break


Check out Jen’s Coaching Packages
She is offering 20% off any package for listeners of Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom! Follow her on Instagram (@jenbutlerwrites) and DM code "mocktail" to redeem!

Registration is now open for The Mocktail Summit (January 14-16)!

Order a copy of The Happiest Hour: Delicious Mocktails for a Fabulous Moms' Night In

A huge thank you to the sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free podcast!
Giesen 0% Wines

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Deb:

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers, okay, hey, friends, welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free.

Deb:

It's Deb, and I have such a special guest in the house losing my mind. We haven't chatted in forever. We'll text. We are dear, dear friends and you all know her. You love her. She's one of the most downloaded episodes of this podcast, right up there with William Porter. Two of them go like neck and neck. Jen Butler is in the house.

Jen:

How are you? I'm already smiling so wide that my face hurts already. And we're like less than a minute in Deb, this is just so exciting. I'm so happy to see you.

Deb:

I am so happy because there's so much going on in your life. I want to catch up on all the things, everything that's happening. I want you to share so many good things happening, and you are one of the people I wanted to have on the podcast to make a drink with me that is featured in the book. I'm so excited. I'm so excited excited. I'm so excited Like this is craziness, that this book is coming out November.

Jen:

I know it's amazing day because America's oh man, we're all gonna need our mocktails. That day, everybody's gonna be sure?

Deb:

Well, we're gonna make it a double, no matter who you're voting for, make it a double.

Jen:

Yes, yes.

Deb:

Right, exactly, we're actually gonna make the drink, which we don't normally do, kind of. When I started the podcast though that was I in my mind I was like envisioning like making drinks with people and stuff, but like the clanking of the noise and stuff it just hasn't. That's never where the podcast went organically.

Jen:

Well, so this is like retro. We're taking it back.

Deb:

This is back to the vision that I had when I started yes, so we're going to make a drink. We're going to make a cranberry dream. This is the name of the drink. It's a mule, it's a cranberry mule Simple, this is one of my favorite drinks. You and I okay so everybody knows you and I did a program together. Jen is a sober coach, jen is a writer, she's a fitness coach. Back about, was it two years ago, we were doing a sober October program together. You were doing the coaching, the sober coaching part. I was doing the mocktails.

Jen:

You're amazing. Yes, and we had so much fun. How much fun did we have?

Deb:

It was ridiculous. Not only was it so much fun, but actually today, is Jennifer Page's two-year soberversary because she started two years ago today. Because today's October 1st, when we're recording this.

Jen:

Oh, and you know she's listening to this. So, jen Page, you're right, jennifer, we love you we love you.

Deb:

Yes, we do and we are so proud of you to be living alcohol-free for the last two years. To wake up today, two years ago, and think like I mean, I remember how I felt like I can't do this. How am I going to do this? Yep, yep. So, jen, big kudos to you and your support, yes, yay, oh to me oh thanks.

Deb:

Yes, yes, yes. And to Jennifer Page for walking the journey. All the Jen, really yeah, for all the things that we can walk this road together and be of support to one another is to me just-.

Jen:

It makes all the difference.

Deb:

It makes all the difference. It's what it's all about. So anyway, we're making a drink that you and I made back two years ago with our Sober October group. Okay, do you want to make our drink? And then we'll have our little chit chat. Shall we do it, let's do it. Yes, okay, this was actually when we had our Sober October program. Remember, this was like the comedy hour, because we would start our Zoom and we would make the mocktail, and it was usually just you and I, but we thought we were very entertaining.

Deb:

We were very funny we really we really were quite.

Jen:

Let's see if we still got it Deb.

Deb:

We got it. We got it. Okay, I have a mule. I have a mule cup, which I didn't own a mule cup back in the day when I was drinking my wine. I don't know if you were mule, did you own a mule?

Jen:

cup back. No, I was never a mule person. I'm still not really a mule digger, so I have my grandfather's. This is my grandfather's Manhattan glass, and I love using this glass because, of course, he only ever drank alcohol out of it. So I love like making new memories with this glass that reminds me of my grandfather.

Deb:

Oh, that's precious. That is precious. Okay, I love it. Let's make new memories. Cranberry dreams. We're going to put in about an ounce, and I'm saying about. Obviously the recipe book gives you exact measurements. But I always say measure with your heart. But if you're Jen Butler, you show up with beakers and you measure exactly like you're a scientist. So if you're type A, you can measure exact. Or if you're like me and you're type Z and you just want to like, you know just if you go oh, I want a little more cranberry, add a little more cranberry, you want a little more lime juice.

Jen:

Add a little more lime juice. That's how. That's how everything's going to roll. This is why your book is so important, deb, because for people like me, who are not quite ready to measure with their heart, we need the recipe so we can use our beakers. Okay, so we're going to do an ounce of cran, my ice.

Deb:

We're not going to shake or anything today. We're just going to give a little stir once we put this in here. So very easy making it and building it in the glass. This is the clanking you were talking about.

Jen:

That's so distracting, I'm doing it right now.

Deb:

Okay, I'm afraid I got my ice in there, so we're doing our ounce of cranberry juice and about half an ounce of lime juice, so I'm pouring that right in.

Jen:

I need to close my crayon.

Deb:

Okay.

Jen:

Close my lime.

Deb:

Nice, and then we're going to do I'm doing two ounces of non-alcoholic whiskey. I know you're doing rum, because you're not a whiskey, I am.

Jen:

Yeah. So I was never a whiskey drinker, so like, why start now? So Deb told me that I can substitute, so I'm using rum alternative because that's what I have at home. So here we go, yeah.

Deb:

And I was when we were texting about making this drink together. I was like perfect, because I want people to know, I want you to know you can substitute things or if that's not your thing, you know. Try a tequila with it. You know it's okay, let's play around, let's have some fun, Okay. And then we're going it a stir. We can garnish. You can garnish with some cranberries, you can garnish with a lime slice. I'm actually I have some really pretty dehydrated oranges. Oh, you're so fancy.

Jen:

Look at you, I'm going to garnish with that. You know what, though? I'm having a little garnish envy over here. I'm not going to lie, I have to tell you buy some or make some dehydrated citrus.

Jen:

It is the easiest way to garnish. It looks so pretty, I love it and they stay. Those must stay right, because I often don't invest in the garnish because I'm like, well, I'm not going to use a bag of cranberries till Thanksgiving. They're going to go bad if I use. You know exactly. So I'm actually garnish free today, but I am. I refuse to shame myself about that. I know this is a shame free zone.

Deb:

I am typically garnish free. As everyone knows, I'm very garnish free. They did make me put a section in the book about garnishes and I was like, are you sure, do you know me people?

Jen:

Because people who read this, who really know, me are going to be like um she doesn't know what she's talking about, at least until you make it the garnishes, like I really tried, I really went out on a limb there for me. So look at you now with your dehydrated garnishes.

Deb:

You're dehydrated. That's one of my favorites, because, again, it doesn't really it's six months. Okay, big time. Cheers, my friend, have a little drinky drink.

Jen:

Oh, that's so good. And with the rum I have to say it's very good. It's very like fall, a little spicy.

Deb:

Nice, delish, okay, delish. I'm having a hot flash, so it's very nice to have this very cold drink right now. I want to like-.

Jen:

There you go, just put it on your forehead.

Deb:

I'm letting you take this cup when you're having a hot flash. Actually, jennifer Page told me wait a minute, hang on. She told me to tell you to read. It's a menopause book. So here's a shout out to all the ladies who maybe are going through menopause. She says you have to read the Great Menopause Myth.

Jen:

Ooh, okay, I'll add that to my stack. I already have some menopause books behind me. I'm going to add that Jen Butler's. Yeah Can never get enough info because there's so much actually there's so much information coming out. So I'm in perimenopause, yes, which I obviously am no scientist, but I swear COVID kicked it off because the extreme stress of the pandemic plus I turned 40 in 2020 and I swear it just like sent me on this perimenopausal rollercoaster. So I'm very much there, but you know we're getting through it.

Deb:

I'm post-menopausal, having a massive hot flush right now. It's literally like I'm standing sitting on, like walking on a treadmill very quickly, very quick walk.

Jen:

It's such a glamorous day.

Deb:

Although I'm sitting in a chair. Okay, All right, we're going to get into all the things. I'm so excited. All right, Jen, really you and I haven't really talked in. I mean, we've texted, we've DM'd and I mean I don't feel like. I know You're one of those friends where, like you don't talk, but then you see each other or you do something together and it's like like no time has passed, Right it?

Jen:

all comes back. I know so. True, it was about a year ago, I think, that we saw each other in Nashville, right so in it was the first time we met IRL in real life and guess what I have to tell you, because I know they're all going to be listening to this. In two days I am leaving to go to the next gathering of the Badass Thugs.

Jen:

I don't know if I can say that word on here, but I'm saying it anyway which is the group of ladies that met through our program. They turned into text buddies and accountability buddies and really good friends. We all converged on Nashville last year to see you, deb, and to meet you, and now we're all getting together again. So you know, these are the connections that can be forged through your sober journey and it's really just life-changing and we are all so excited to see each other.

Deb:

Where are you guys meeting? We're all meeting up. We're going to.

Jen:

Minneapolis because it's kind of in the middle of all of us.

Deb:

Yeah, great so we just, you know we're in a little house.

Jen:

Great, we're having a little girls weekend, oh my gosh, a little sober girls weekend, because you know they're all yeah, they're all alcohol free at this point.

Deb:

And that was from a Dry July program we did right. Yes, Is that the Dry July? We did yes. Isn't that incredible? No and right like you can't imagine it. When you're at home, you're drinking your wine or whatever, you cannot imagine that you could have such deep connections with people and walk the road together.

Jen:

Because alcohol is so isolating, right, it makes us feel like we are alone in our struggle, that we are the only ones that have a problem and everyone else can drink like a quote, normal person. And once you have that, it takes like one brave moment to break yourself out of that mindset. And then you can start to forge these connections and realize that actually more people are struggling than you would ever know. And the more that we can be vulnerable and connect with each other, the stronger we all become. And the thugs, as they love to call themselves, are such a testament to that.

Deb:

That is so cute. Okay, I love how you said one brave moment, right, because you don't have to be brave, go. Okay, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life, or two years.

Jen:

No, it's just that one moment to make that first step right and, whatever that step is, to just say I need help. That's what I did. It was one anonymous social media post to a group of sober women saying I need help, I need to do Dry January and I have no idea how I'm going to do it and I don't believe I can succeed. Can you help me? And that moment set me off on my path and completely changed my life.

Deb:

And that was 2018. Is that right?

Jen:

Okay.

Deb:

I don't think I mentioned yeah, so you were on the podcast back when I first started.

Jen:

When you first started yeah, Episode 13.

Deb:

If anybody wants to go back and listen and hear your full story, which is so, so empowering Just over six years even.

Jen:

Just over it was six years, july 4th. Yeah, yep.

Deb:

Wow, talk about a day of freedom for you.

Jen:

I know exactly. I didn't even plan, I didn't even think about it. Yes, but yes.

Deb:

Independence Day. Seriously, there's all these fireworks going off, yes, okay. So how have things now that you're like over six years, what has changed in your alcohol-free journey and what has changed in your sober coaching?

Jen:

That's such a great question. I have to say that sobriety is no longer front and center in my daily life, which is a good thing. At the same time, there are moments where if I start to feel overwhelmed in my life or disconnected from myself or my body or super stressed out, just simply reminding myself of the fact that I have been sober for six years and no matter what kind of stress I've dealt with grief, loss, pandemic, everything that's happened in that time perimenopause, of course the fact that I have not turned to alcohol one time during that time always grounds me. So, even though sobriety doesn't feel like as much proactive work as it did at the beginning, it is always there and it's always grounding and always something that I can be so proud of, and I am so incredibly proud. I never, ever, thought I could be at this point and be so happy and fulfilled without alcohol.

Deb:

And not have it be front and center, not have it be what you're focused on all the time, exactly.

Jen:

Right or not? Have it just be like such hard work all the time? Yeah, exactly, Because in the beginning it is so hard. It is hard.

Deb:

It is hard. I mean, there are wonderful days and there's great things to drink and I certainly try to bring the fun, but it is hard, and it was hard for me in the beginning, really, really hard.

Jen:

But yeah, I feel that like that sense of like where it's not so much work now but, at the same time like right hard things that I've gone through like I'm so grateful that I haven't turned to alcohol because it's there. It's always there, right?

Deb:

Exactly, and it's an easy.

Jen:

It's an easy out to anything, it sure is and it's the out that society encourages us to take. You know, those messages are everywhere and that's why it is such hard work to go back in and rewire all of those messages and stop those cycles that are in your brain. It's tough. There were so many days where my husband would say, like you look exhausted, like what happened today, why are you so tired? And I would say to him, like I'm just working so hard in my brain that. And I would say to him, like I'm just working so hard in my brain, that is why I'm so tired. It's just like my brain is just working so hard right now. You can't see it. I don't feel it in the rest of my body, but in my head. There's a lot of work going on.

Deb:

It's like learning a new language. I mean, I lived in Ukraine for one year and I lived with a family that spoke no English, and so I had to learn Russian if I wanted to be able to speak to these people I lived with and it was exhausting and I don't know how to explain it. I was like 21 at the time, so I mean, I had no reason in life to be tired. I was young and energetic, but it was very, very tiring.

Jen:

That is what it is right.

Deb:

Your brain is working so hard to set up new wires. Okay, some of you know that I accidentally stopped drinking when I did a challenge to take a month off from alcohol, my BFF Chardonnay and now I live an alcohol-free lifestyle and I absolutely love it. But I also realized that's not for everybody. Originally my goal was just to moderate. I wanted to learn how to moderate. So you might be thinking I would love to cut back a bit, but I am not ready to quit cold turkey, so you don't have to. I have a little tip for you. It's called Sunnyside. It's the number one alcohol moderation app in the United States and maybe it would be a fit for you if you're looking for no pressure, just support and tools to help you actually drink less. With Sunnyside, you set your own pace, track your drinks and connect with a community of people who get it. You pick a plan that fits your goals and, the best part, 96% of people who use Sunnyside drink less after just 90 days. That's huge. So if you're ready to cut back your drinking without feeling overwhelmed, maybe give Sunnyside a shot. Visit the link in the show notes to get a free 15-day trial and check out Sunnyside for yourself.

Deb:

As you guys know, I love Giesen 0% wines. Their Sauvignon Blanc is my go-to on a regular basis, but they recently launched a delicious sparkling brute 0%, which is quickly becoming a fan favorite. I am so proud to have Giesen as the exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. Giesen 0% wines are created through the magic of advanced spinning cone technology to remove the alcohol from their full-leaded wines leaded wines. The award-winning winemaker Duncan Schuller and his team have done wonders in Marlboro, new Zealand, by creating entire family of 0% wines with all the flavor and deliciousness you expect from traditional quote full leaded wine. Their non-alcoholic wines maintain the aroma and the body to create a low calorie wine that never contains more than 0.5 ABV. Globally available, look for Giesen 0% wines wherever you shop for your non-alcoholic options. Their family of alcohol-free wines include the most effervescent member of the family, the Sparkling Brut 0%, which is absolutely delicious for any celebration. My personal favorite although I do love them all is the Sauvignon Blanc, coming in at only 100 calories for the entire bottle. And, not to be missed, the other members of their 0% family the Riesling, the Premium Red Blend, the Rosé, the Pinot Gris. With Giesen 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it. And if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story.

Deb:

Okay, you are such a natural writer. When we did our booze break together, which I know you still offer, which I want if anybody's interested in a sober program, get connected, plug into Jen's program. It's called Booze Break. I'll make sure it's in the notes here, but you're such an excellent writer. Okay, all of you send out with the booze break. I remember I was reading them because I was part of the program as doing the mocktails and following along and, like you are such a natural, so incredible. Okay. So I'm so excited that you are leaning into this dream I am. Tell us about what's happening on the writing front.

Jen:

So, oh my gosh, and you don't know. So, for anyone who's listening, deb doesn't know any of this latest update, so I'm so excited to be able to tell you in real time. So Deb and I are joking about writing books, because she never dreamed of writing a book and she's got a book coming out. I have dreamt of writing a book my entire life.

Deb:

Deb didn't care about school. Jen has got all the degrees. She's got all the initials under her name. I don't know what these mean, oh my gosh. But the initials under her name?

Jen:

I don't know what these mean, oh my gosh, but it's coming though I'm a little behind you, deb, but it's coming. So I am about halfway through my memoir manuscript and I even feel so crazy saying the word manuscript. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a real thing. I'm halfway through. I have the second half kind of sketched out, ready to go. I just have to actually write it. I have, over the past year, connected really well with my dream publishing house and an editor there who has been a phenomenal support. So I will just say I don't have the book deal yet. However, I have forged this amazing relationship and gotten just phenomenal feedback from her and some other people, so I'm forging ahead. So my current goal is to finish my manuscript by the end of this year and get it out there, and hopefully 2025 will bring me the book deal that I have wanted my entire life.

Deb:

I cannot wait. I cannot wait.

Jen:

Send all the good vibes. Yeah, and here's the thing. Right, I'm coaching myself through this process, so I'm thinking, of course, I'm thinking to myself oh my gosh, what if I don't get the deal with the Dream Publishing House and this doesn't happen? Well, I'll have a manuscript written that has gotten feedback from this incredible, phenomenal editor, and so if it's not meant to be published there, it will be published somewhere else, or I can always self-publish. So I just feel like, more than ever, this book is going to get out into the world and I really cannot wait to share. The writing process has been so cathartic, so healing. To go to these really tough places and write my way through has been just the most incredible experience. And then the fact that I get to share this story with whoever needs it and wants to hear it and wants to, you know, connect with a mom who has struggled through motherhood and has struggled to sobriety and all of this. It will be there and I just I can't wait, but I have a lot of work to do.

Deb:

Okay. Now do you I know like they have you decide on a name, a title? Do you have the? Or can you say do you not want to say? I don't want you to have to say I don't want you to say anything you don't want to say? So that's totally fine. Sorry, I'm putting you on the spot.

Jen:

So the working title. I'm not going to share it because I don't. It's fine. I'm feeling less and less into it, yep.

Deb:

But what I?

Jen:

will say so. I think my sub stack has a really good title, and I would not be surprised if that ended up being the title of my book, to kind of like loop it all in together. And that is Best, mom Never.

Jen:

I love that, okay, and that is just a title that I love. It's the title that I use for my sub stack, where I write about motherhood, midlife, perimenopause, sobriety, raising middle schoolers, all of this stuff. I kind of put all of my thoughts and feelings there and I love that idea because we have to stop holding ourselves to these ridiculous standards. We have to stop comparing ourselves to all these moms who look like they are perfect and have all their stuff together all the time and have perfect lives and are getting eight hours of sleep every night and eating perfect food and all the rest of it right.

Jen:

Exactly so I really embrace this idea of best mom never, because it just lets us all off the hook. We're never going to be the best, we're never going to be perfect, but guess what, we are the best moms for our kids and we're just going to be out here, keeping it real and doing the best we can when we can. And sometimes we can't even do the best we can, and that's also okay.

Deb:

So that's kind of the title that's most resonant with me right now. So we'll see what happens. Oh my gosh, I cannot wait. I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited for you. I'm so happy that you made this connection with this your dream publishing house.

Jen:

It's really, it's just been a phenomenal, phenomenal experience. Yeah, yeah, I went to a program last January that they ran. That was sort of like an author day with different authors. It was a really fun day. I actually went with someone who did our Dry July program. One of the thugs went with me and we did it together, which was so great.

Jen:

After that I wrote an essay about how wonderful that experience was and the woman who owns the company found my essay and loved it, and that just kind of kicked everything off. So it's just a testament to the fact that again, you have one brave moment right. So I felt brave going to this author's day and going to this program. I felt brave writing that essay, but it also just absolutely came from my heart and I think that's why it got her attention, because it was real and it talked about how much that day meant to me as someone who aspires to write a book. And so the braver we are, the more these things will happen for us, and I think the more that we'll see like, okay, the universe really has our back and and dreams can come true.

Deb:

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, there's, yeah, there's no accidents. God has wonderful plans.

Jen:

Wonderful, wonderful plans.

Deb:

Oh my gosh. Okay, yes, let's drink, let's have a sip of our, of our mock.

Jen:

It's sitting here, I just. I have to have more.

Deb:

I'm drinking. It's good, it's so. I'm so glad you like it. Yes, this was a fun one that we made during our Sober October. Substack is best mom never. So everybody who's on Substack or go find Substack I am on Substack because I follow you on Substack and Marnie Ray has a. Substack. I think you guys are the only ones that I read on Substack, but it's a huge thing. It's huge.

Jen:

It is I was going to say and the more you subscribe, it kind of like all of a sudden you have 20 things in your inbox all the time and it's a lot. So my subscribers, I really appreciate my subscribers, yeah, Because I know that inbox space is precious. So I really really appreciate my subscribers and it's a fun little community building experiment.

Deb:

Incredible. Okay, can you talk about navigating, going from like being a stay-at-home mom to like okay, I don't want to go back to corporate America. Or I don't want to go to corporate America but I want to do something outside the house, maybe. Or you know how are you navigating this road.

Jen:

So it's very interesting and I'm already thinking about like this may be my next book, trying to like really come out of stay-at-home motherhood and I really want to make as much of a financial contribution to my family as I can, but I also really want to be there for my kids. Someone said an older or a parent with older kids said to me over the last couple of years, the older they get, the more they actually need you, and I was like, oh man, I thought I was going to be off the hook, nope, but I am finding that is very true because the older they get, the more they're getting into activities and things and the more homework they have. So I still want to be there for my kids. I also really want to forge an identity outside of motherhood because you know, these 18 years that we've got them at home are flying by. That's the other cliche, because it's true is, the older they get, the faster it goes right, the faster the time goes. I'm sure you well you know yeah, lily's a senior.

Deb:

And you're experiencing that Lily's a senior. Stop it. Yeah, I mean, you and I both have two kids. So, yeah, lily's a senior. Yeah, I was crying last night thinking about it, literally crying. I was sitting there in the living room talking to her and she's like, oh, you're gonna cry. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna cry all the time. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. Oh, yeah, so just prepare yourself.

Jen:

I have Kleenex available everywhere and I work with a lot of women who are either they want to feel like they have something in their lives besides their kids, and so that's what I'm trying to do for myself right now. So I'm kind of piecing together a patchwork of a career for myself. I love it, and what I realized is the overarching kind of umbrella of what I do is that I support and empower women. So that's very broad. So how do I do that? Well, I write my sub stack so people can always go on there, read what I have to say and think like okay, I'm not alone. I'm not the only one that's struggling with these issues.

Jen:

I also teach fitness classes, which is something that I never was, never on my bingo card, but I absolutely love teaching fitness and one of my favorite things that I teach is a course called Starter Sweat for women who are returning to fitness or who are just trying to get into a routine, who are tired of being in their basements alone and really want to be brave and start coming into this boutique studio where I work, and that is just such an empowering experience for them. So I do the writing to help support women. I do the fitness coaching and then, of course, my sobriety coaching and my life coaching, and that is something that has been so important to me since I started doing it in 2021. I have now helped women who have been now sober for over a year or two years. Yeah, it's been.

Jen:

It's really the most rewarding work that I do because still to this day, every client who's come to, who starts out having no confidence in their ability to succeed, no understanding of their own capability, and then to have them get to a point where they realize, oh, actually I can do this and I am doing this and I'm so much more content without alcohol or with alcohol in a very limited capacity. So, yeah, so that's sort of how I'm navigating the transition from stay-at-home motherhood to working mom who still wants to be there for her kid. But I'll tell you, it's a very interesting experience and I have a lot more to say about it, especially looking at part-time job postings and things like that and trying to apply for some jobs as a former stay-at-home mom. There's a lot happening there. It's a struggle, I think, for a lot of moms who want to reenter the workforce in some capacity.

Deb:

So, to be continued, yeah, yeah, because well, some of the things you're doing are like entrepreneurial right, but then, like working at the studio, you're working for somebody else, so maybe you're somebody's filling out an application and that can be very nerve wracking, especially if you've been home for 18 years or longer.

Jen:

Exactly no.

Deb:

Yeah, that's that one brave step. That one brave step, right, yep. Yeah, that's gonna go Okay, I love it Amazing. I love you, I'm so proud of you. Oh, thank you, I'm so Well. I was telling you this because, about this book, I'm like, what am I doing? And I'm nervous, or whatever, and my husband Larry's like you have nothing to lose, nothing bad is going to happen.

Jen:

Exactly.

Deb:

You know what? You're exactly right. Nothing bad is going to happen. What bad is going to happen? So?

Jen:

anyway, yep. So I just want to encourage everybody to keep telling yourself that, yes, and exactly the happiest hour.

Deb:

I mean, what can first of all, what can?

Jen:

go wrong.

Deb:

You said like drinking less or not drinking at all. Like I feel like you and I are both in that very much judgment-free zone of sobriety. Like I want to encourage somebody. If they just want to have a mocktail in between their cocktails, great, do a booze break with you or grab the happiest hour. Find something that's right for you. Or if you want to go completely alcohol free or can't even imagine that we are standing here as testaments that it is possible. It is possible when you are maybe right now listening and you're thinking there is no way. There's no way I'm waking up today with a hangover. There's no way I could do that these two are doing. Yes, we were both there.

Jen:

We were there so many days, countless days like that.

Deb:

Yeah, putting my kids on the bus. I'm like, okay, now I have to go lay back down.

Jen:

What I love about what you're doing, deb, is that there really has never been a better time to go alcohol-free or to try to take a break or cut back or whatever the right choice is for you. And what I love about what you do is you're out there testing all the different things and making all these different recipes, and that's so helpful for people, because now it's almost like there are so many options of alcohol-free drinks and spirits, which is such a wonderful thing, but even that can be overwhelming. Where do I even start? So that's why your book. I'm so excited for your book and I think it will help so many people. Just to get, just as a starting point, like okay, I have no idea what to do about mocktails, so I'm just going to do what Deb says.

Deb:

Totally, it's just simple, easy drinks to make. I, you know, I do offer some non-alcoholic spirits to put in many of the mocktails, but you don't have to use those. But yeah, very simple drinks. And I just take it from the approach of like keep it very fun. Like I have a section on like hot flash. Mamas need frozen drinks, you know. You know that's one of the chapter titles. I mean, like I'm trying to keep it front. Fun, you know, like the fun. And again, like the fun is not over. Your life is not over if you're drinking less or you're not drinking at all. And, um, I can't thank you enough for all of your support, just personally to me. Um, you are somebody I've been able to reach out to. You know just when I'm having a hard time. You know and don't necessarily want to put it out on social media or whatever or struggling, you know, with things that have happened or whatever, and it's like I really, really, really appreciate your friend.

Jen:

Oh my gosh, right back at you.

Deb:

Incredible encouragement in all the work that you're doing. Okay, so I'll put everything in the show notes to find Jen Butler. You're going to want to find her.

Jen:

If you're not following her on social media, make sure you're doing so. Yes, instagram is at Jen Butler writes. I changed it because I'm doing this book. I changed it to Jen Butler writes because I have to like forge ahead as an author, but I am still coaching and I make that clear on my Instagram. So I am not. I'm still Jen Butler coach at heart.

Deb:

Yes, no, but you're helping others write a new story. You're helping others write the next chapter for their life.

Jen:

So it's perfect. Oh, I love that. Yes, jen.

Deb:

Butler writes she's going to help you write the new chapter for wherever you're wanting to go with alcohol or life whatever. Life coaching, yes. Fitness. I love that Starter sweat. If we lived in the same town, it's the class I'd be setting up for.

Jen:

Oh my gosh, you bet you would be in there.

Deb:

Starter sweat is what I need. Getting my steps in, that's all I know. That's what I'm doing. Okay, I love you, my friend. This was so much fun. I love you too, Thank you so much for having me on. Cheers to you, cheers To our cranberry.

Jen:

Cheers Cannot wait for your book.

Deb:

Thank you. Thank you, the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.