Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 94 Cheers to The Happiest Hour: Book Launch & Real Talk with Jennifer Page

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 94

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IT’S HERE!! My new book, The Happiest Hour, has officially launched, and to say I’m ecstatic is an understatement! To help me celebrate this big moment, I’ve invited my friend and fabulous guest Jennifer Page to join me on the podcast, where we are making one of her favorite mocktails together - a classic Gin & Tonic with all the flavor and none of the booze.

Jennifer is a member of my membership community, Thriving Alcohol-Free, and I can say with certainty that this book would not have happened without her! She has been alcohol-free for over two years now and has so much wisdom from her experiences that I know you’re going to relate to. She’s actually a repeat guest, so if you’d like to hear more of her story, check out EP 7. In this episode, we’re unpacking it all—those side-eyes from friends, the still not drinking? questions, and even the nuances of gray area drinking. It’s all right here and we can’t wait for you to join us - here’s to freedom, fun, and a lifetime of happy hours!


Mentioned Resources
Generation NA: @generationna

Rachel Hart: Why Can't I Drink Like Everyone Else?

Huberman Lab Podcast: Effects of Alcohol on The Brain and Body

Registration is now open for The Mocktail Summit (January 14-16)!

Order a copy of The Happiest Hour: Delicious Mocktails for a Fabulous Moms' Night In

A huge thank you to the sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free podcast!
Giesen 0% Wines

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Deb:

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers.

Deb:

Okay, this podcast episode is coming out on November 5th, which I know some people maybe have been talking about because, I don't know, there's like an election going on or something. But most importantly, the happiest hour comes out on the day that our podcast is coming out. So I'm so excited to talk to you. How are you? I'm great, I'm great. Okay, I have to give a proper introduction. I don't have a bio on you, but I'll just tell everybody. Well, first of all, you were on the podcast. Was it what? Episode 11? I feel like it was seven, seven, okay, episode seven. You would know better. You remember all these things. So seven, back way in the beginning.

Deb:

Jennifer Page everybody is a member in my membership Thriving Alcohol-Free. She's actually the very first person to sign up. I will never forget that. Jennifer has been alcohol-free for over two years Over two years. We're just ending our two years and one month right now, when we're recording this. We're going to have a girls chat.

Deb:

Today. We're going to make a drink, one of her favorites, that helped her surf the urge I'm speaking for you now Surf the urge when she first broke up with alcohol, and it's a recipe that's here in the book, but it's just a simple recipe Easy, easy, a good old gin and tonic. We're going to make that drink together and I just want you to know, though there's nowhere to follow, I'm not giving you an Instagram account today and say go, follow her. She's not expiring to be an influencer, but she has had an incredibly influential role in my life, and this book would not have been completed without you, would not have been started without your encouragement and literally you helped me with editing and reading things over. You looked at the whole manuscript. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm bowing down to you, yay, welcome. Welcome Jennifer Page, my dear friend from Lafayette, indiana, mother of four boys but, most importantly, grandma to Claire.

Jennifer:

Yes, that's my latest act, right, that's your latest, your newest role?

Deb:

I should say Not most importantly, yes, but your latest role that you are doing once a week, is it that you go and babysit her? Yeah, isn't that awesome.

Jennifer:

It's perfect, it's wonderful and I love that she knows me like she's at an age where there's a little stranger danger and but I'm I'm like her person when that's like she did, when she doesn't know anyone else in the room, like Nana's her person and I'm.

Deb:

Nana yeah, yes, I'm coming to Nana. Nana, please hold me. Nana, please protect me. Yeah, so fun. So you have, only you've been Nana, never had a drink, never fallen asleep on the couch with her on your lap. No right, no, okay. How is it going here now into into your third year? Let's talk a little bit about what the alcohol-free drink do you want to make the drink first, you want?

Jennifer:

to do that. Sure, sure, sure, because I'll get that, and then we'll talk about your alcohol-free drink.

Deb:

Okay, this was actually this drink you really got into in the very beginning, am I right? You were drinking a lot of them.

Jennifer:

Well, I used to drink the regular gin and tonic you used to drink a lot of them.

Deb:

Nothing changed really for you, huh.

Jennifer:

Well, it's just I'm lazy, it's super easy. So I just I got out my. I was just going to say I usually this is one of my go-tos. The cut above gin or ritual Ritual is also a great. So those are the two gins that I've acquired a taste for. I don't know that they all vary too much, but I've been told that I do think this is an acquired taste.

Jennifer:

So anyone who's new to the non-alcoholic, alcohol-free lifestyle or that space, who's starting to try many of these products. They aren't necessarily going to taste the same and they need to be mixed with something, but they also. Your taste buds change. So I had no idea things that didn't taste good to me early on in the first months or so weeks or months, like now, two plus years out. I'm trying not only new things because there's so much the market's exploding, but trying things again that I had tried early on that I was like. So what we don't realize is alcohol is an anesthetic, so it numbs our taste buds. So the farther out you go without consuming alcohol, your taste buds change.

Deb:

So they wake back up. Yeah, it's like you were at the dentist.

Jennifer:

Yeah, half asleep Right.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, do you ever do that? And they give you like too much? And it's just like, okay, now my eye feels asleep. You know I'm like, well, my ears asleep too, everything's asleep. Like, okay, now my eye feels asleep. You know, I'm like my face, my ear is asleep too, everything's asleep. Okay, we'll say this recipe is found on page 37. You really don't need much of a recipe.

Deb:

I will say Not to knock on my book here or anything, but I put this in here because there's so many recipes just for people who like just you know just want to try something, a standard, a drink. Maybe you used to have so a good option in time. This is what my husband drank.

Jennifer:

Okay, so what are you doing? Two ounces, we're doing two ounces Anywhere between an ounce and a half and two ounces, and I have my mocktail mom glass and I squeeze yeah, that I put in the dishwasher so your logo is no longer like intact. No, it's just a glass, it's just your logo.

Deb:

Well, when I feel really pale, I'll just say, wow, now there I am, without a tan. Yeah, no hair, no face Jennifer's lazy.

Jennifer:

That's why we're making this drink.

Deb:

It's invisible. It's invisible. Yes, okay, so I took some lime wheels and I put them here around the rim, around the glass, around the inside of the glass. We both did, and some ice we're going to put in our gin.

Jennifer:

There's no substitute for a fresh squeezed slice of lime. Yeah, it doesn't compare to anything in a bottle, so it's worth it to keep a lime in your fridge at all times.

Deb:

Yep, yep, definitely.

Jennifer:

There's the gin. Pour it in Very nice, and then this is kind of hard to find. But I gave up sugar, fortunately five years before I gave up alcohol, because I've heard the sugar cravings are terrible.

Deb:

They are.

Jennifer:

Yeah, when we did Sober October together, which was my first month, everybody in the group was having these horrible sugar cravings and I'm like, well, what's up with that? I'm not having that. Well, I had been off sugar for five years, so, fortunately. But what I have come to realize in the last? I kind of had an epiphany a few months ago for me sugar and alcohol I don't have an off switch for either. So like, once I have that one glass of wine, I want another, and so if I eat sugar I'm looking for more sugar the rest of the day. Like I will keep going in the cupboards when can I find something with sugar? So it's really interesting how those occupy the same kind of space in my brain.

Deb:

Neuropathways. Yeah, it's so interesting because our neighbor just gave us like this little thing with these little slices of chocolate from they were just in italy, came home and it was so like like nice, you know italian chocolate and lily's like here, mom just have one. And I said to her I go, I can't, I, if I have one, I will eat the whole sleep. Like I'm not trying to be funny, I was like no, you know that, you know I'll eat seven of them. I, I can't stop myself. Interesting, I need to look at it more that way. It's like the alcohol One glass of wine, I will be off to the races.

Jennifer:

Yeah. So I found this Zevia, which you've probably seen, their sodas. They have all different flavored sodas and they do make a couple mixers. They make a ginger beer and this tonic water and I think I feel like they might make one other mixer, maybe like a lemon lime type mixer.

Deb:

Okay, I'm not sure Okay.

Jennifer:

They're made with stevia, so a natural sugar substitute, so I love these. Right now, I've been ordering them on Amazon because it's the only place I can find them, so yeah, Okay, I need to order those.

Deb:

I'm using Betty Buzz, which is made with agave syrup, so there's 50 calories for the entire bottle. But yes, tonic water does tend to have high sugar, it is.

Jennifer:

And it's interesting because these are the types of things they have to add to real alcohol to make it taste good. Right, because it's like yes, yes, yes, but mine is. This comes in a little can, so it usually is just the perfect size for my mocktail mom glass.

Deb:

Invisible mom mom glass.

Jennifer:

It just bubbled over. Oops, maybe too much ice. Okay, oh, this is good.

Deb:

Oh good.

Jennifer:

I haven't had one of these in a few weeks.

Deb:

I'm going to squeeze a little extra lime on it. There we go. Yum Okay, do you need to go grab a paper towel or anything? Do you need something? Go grab a paper towel. Yeah, this is fine. This is called real life podcasting people. This is how we're doing it.

Jennifer:

Okay. So that made me think, you know, like at two years I was thinking a lot like how can I be encouraging to people today? So in the beginning it was really important to have, like a glass in my hand, like even making dinner something to sip on. That's where this drink was. It's not so much that way anymore. I can get through a lot of social situations without feeling that need. So my need for that stuff it's like, yeah, no.

Jennifer:

But last night we were at an outdoor concert and I took my little cooler and I had a couple NA beers and I enjoyed drinking a beer while I was listening to this wonderful live music, and that was great. And I enjoyed drinking a beer while I was listening to this wonderful live music, and that was great. And I was at a wedding recently. I wanted to share this because I think many people are in these situations and they think, oh, you know, I'll quit after that wedding, like there's always, but there's always a life event, right? So we were in Arizona for this wedding, and wedding receptions last like six hours and there's alcohol everywhere, everybody's drinking. So we went to the Whole Foods down the street and I got a six pack of athletic beer, which I also read recently, is Whole Foods number one selling beer. No, yeah, no way. Number one selling beer across all categories. Crazy, right. So that's how far we've come.

Jennifer:

So we got to the reception kind of right when it was starting and I walked straight to the bartender and I have my six pack of beer in my hand and I looked at her and she looks at my six pack and she's like acknowledging me. I said you know what I don't drink, would you be? But I picked this up and brought it so I would have something to drink. Would you mind putting it on ice? And she was like have you had that? Cause I don't drink either, and that's really good beer. And she said I would be happy to. And I said whatever is left over at the end of the night, please just take it home. But it's like there's ways to feel like you're part of the celebration and it's going to get easier and easier as time goes on.

Deb:

But to prepare and to come. Don't be afraid to go talk to the bartender and figure out how to navigate the event. Yeah, so that you're comfortable, you enjoy it and yeah. But yeah, I feel the same way. Like you were saying, I don't feel that sense of like in the beginning. The mocktails and the non-alcoholic wine and stuff were such a bumper rail. For me For sure Still is, but not in the same way. For me, for sure still is, but not in the same, not in the same way, right, not in the same way. Where it was was like every night I had I had to have something or I was going to go back to my yeah, because it's a habit like we.

Jennifer:

For me, like I, never identified as an alcoholic. What resonated with me big time was in our sober october group when jen but Butler introduced the concept of gray area drinking. That like the bells went off. It's like, okay, there's there's an understanding that between the never drinker and the person who's physically dependent there's this gray area and the majority of people fall in that gray area and we usually know deep down on some level, like this, drinking alcohol is not serving my health. It's not serving my physical body or my mental health, or you know. You just finally get to that point like, yeah, I think, I think my life might be better off without it. And we all at our age, right In our prime, deb In our prime.

Deb:

We're just getting started. We're in our 50s, but we're focused. Cheers to that, yes, cheers, cheers to that Big time. Cheers my friend.

Jennifer:

Yes, thank you so we're focused on our health span.

Jennifer:

Like what is the next 50 years going to look like and am I going to feel good? I want to feel good until the day I drop dead and I want to play on the floor with my grandkids and I want to be awake and remember the conversations I had and the 20 minutes worth of buzz like it's just not, it's not worth it. So when you start to see like some of the effects like for me it was my memory, my gut, health it's like this is a habit I need to unlearn and it takes sometimes 30 days or more to kind of unlearn that. But what I was going to say, to bring it back to this fabulous drink is that part of that habit was having a glass in our hand and in a social situation holding something, sipping on something. Like it's all part, it's all tied up in that habit. If it's cooking dinner and sipping your glass of wine or having a substitute, for me was critical. I don't think I would have succeeded without it, for sure I feel the same way.

Deb:

For sure I feel the same way If I had been told which I know and I know for many people this would be a trigger having mocktails or having, like, a non-alcoholic gin. Obviously, don't drink it if that's the case, but for me I know, if I had been told you can't have that, you can't have non-alcoholic wine, that's going to make you want regular wine. For me it was did the exact opposite. It made me not want. It helped me not want the regular stuff.

Jennifer:

Right yeah, and the alternatives just keep getting better and better. So I'm like looking at all this money I'm saving and then I'm like, Ooh, we're not saving any money.

Deb:

Who's saving money? I'm buying all this stuff. Are you saving money? I mean, companies do send me stuff, but I do buy stuff. I buy a lot of stuff.

Jennifer:

Yeah, yes, yeah, there's a lot, maybe not, maybe not.

Deb:

Yeah.

Jennifer:

And you live yeah, you live in the town of like a great non-alcoholic bottle shop. I mean, I agree it's called Generation NA, If you have not heard Deb talk about it or follow them on social media because he's Okay, follow them. Don't follow Jennifer. She's private. She doesn't want to know you.

Deb:

She only has a few friends. I don't know how I got in on that club. I influence nobody. Shut up, you are very influential. You're just not on social media Very influential. Watch out if you're on her bad side. People.

Jennifer:

Seriously, yeah, so I get excited when I get a push the button at the crosswalk and all the cars stop so I can cross the street. When I have to walk by myself, my friend, my walking friend, can't be with me. I will take a picture of the crosswalk and all the cars. I'm like look what I made them do. Everybody's stopped, that's the most influence I have.

Deb:

You're very influential.

Jennifer:

Yes.

Deb:

You raised four amazing boys. That's the most important. You have influenced the most important people in your life. I hope so. I wish that's, if there's a regret. Incredible mom. No, you mentioned that generation NA is the standard and I will say you are the standard of what a mom should be. I mean it. I mean I see the way that you support them, the way you are there for them, everything Like there's yeah, incredible mom. You're an incredible mom. You should be so proud.

Jennifer:

That's kind of you to say, but I will say I really, really am a big cheerleader for the younger moms who are making this lifestyle choice, because I wish this was an area where I wish I'd been a better example for my kids. Same, yeah, I just wish. I wish I'd done it sooner.

Deb:

Yeah, and there's a gal in our membership, right, melissa, she's got babies.

Jennifer:

Young ones Got a baby and a toddler Babies Yep Doing it, very young yeah.

Deb:

Yesterday I chatted with Mocktail Gurley we recorded together for the Mocktail Summit and she has a baby who's about to be a year old, and to see the younger generation making these choices now, raising their kids without alcohol, is incredible. Yeah Okay, as you guys know, I love Giesen 0% Wines. Their Sauvignon Blanc is my go-to on a regular basis. They recently launched a delicious sparkling brute 0%, which is quickly becoming a fan favorite. I am so proud to have Gießen as the exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast.

Deb:

Giesen 0% wines are created through the magic of advanced spinning cone technology to remove the alcohol from their full-leaded wines. The award-winning winemaker Duncan Shouler and his team have done wonders in Marlborough, new Zealand, by creating an entire family of 0% wines with all the flavor and deliciousness you expect from traditional quote full-leaded wine. Their non-alcoholic wines maintain the aroma and the body to create a low calorie wine that never contains more than 0.5 ABV. Globally available, look for Giesen 0% wines wherever you shop for your non-alcoholic options. Their family of alcohol-free wines include the most effervescent member of the family, the sparkling Brut 0%, which is absolutely delicious for any celebration. My personal favorite, although I do love them all is the Sauvignon Blanc, coming in at only 100 calories for the entire bottle. And, not to be missed, the other members of their 0% family the Riesling, the Premium Red Blend, the Rosé, the Pinot Gris. With Giesen's 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it.

Deb:

And if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shouler joined me to share about the Giesen story. Okay, so, three years in well, two years. Now you're into your third year of alcohol-free living and you don't use the word sober, even though I know you are sober. So do you describe yourself like? Do you tell people you live an alcohol-free lifestyle? How do you describe it? And why? Can I ask you why no sober, so that you don't love that word? Is that okay to ask you?

Jennifer:

Oh, of course, yeah, I don't know. The word sober for me sort of implies that when I was drinking I was like what's the opposite of sober? Like trashed, like drunk? I think it's tied up in that word, alcoholic, which was such a hurdle for me because for so long I couldn't even fathom, I could not wrap my brain around people who don't drink are alcoholic, like that is what I thought and that is what our culture is.

Jennifer:

You know, someone hears you saying don't drink. They kind of look at you sideways like, oh, she's got a problem, yeah. Or you know she must have hit rock bottom. Or. You know, it's funny because I have a friend in book club and I only see her a couple times a year. But I saw her recently and she's like are you still not drinking? And I'm like, yeah, and she's like, and that's just like for your health, right, it's like. And I'm like, yeah, it's really. I feel so much better without it, and so it's funny, it's just our culture, you know.

Jennifer:

But sober for me always like had a kind of it just is a word that has a connotation to it. So what I say is I, I quit drinking alcohol or I don't drink alcohol anymore. And it's hard because you know everybody else does and I have to really sort of filter my thoughts. You know, I was at a dinner very informal, intimate dinner party recently. Dinner very informal, intimate dinner party recently, and I, just without even thinking, dropped this factoid that we know that consumption of alcohol increases your risk of seven different types of cancer. Oh, what a great way to keep the party going, right, I'm like oh, did I just say that.

Deb:

Did your husband kick you under the table? Oh my gosh.

Jennifer:

Well, it like ends the conversation immediately. Right, like. But I had seen an influencer that I follow on Instagram, a darling young lady with these cute kids, and she and her sisters lost their mom to breast cancer and they were at a breast cancer fundraiser and they're toasting with alcohol. It's like this big fundraiser to raise money for breast cancer research and we're serving everyone alcohol, which increases your risk of getting breast cancer. So it's like once you know these things we talk about this all the time it's like once you know the facts, the research, it's like you can't unknow it and I have to exercise a lot of self-control in not blabbering about it and ruining everyone's time.

Deb:

It's like when you go to Panera Bread you're telling them how much sugar is in that roll they're about to eat.

Jennifer:

Well, the girls at the coffee shop, they know to get out the little carton of heavy whipping cream for me to put in my coffee because that has no sugar, and they're like, asking me, like, oh yeah, and they're like I started doing that too now that you told me that. I mean it's darling, they're cute, isn't that great? Isn't that great? Isn't that great? It's hard not to want to share, especially with the people you love the most. It's hard for me with my adult sons. They're great. And I will say there's one thing I wanted to share because early on I think I told you this early on my 25-year-old said Mom, not drinking is like your superpower. He's like this is like your superpower, he's like. He's like because I'm trying to have a conversation with him on three different topics at the same time. He's like okay, slow down, mom. Like the energy level goes up right. The brain's firing on all cylinders after being a little underperforming for a while.

Deb:

You're underperforming. Now you're overperforming. He's like I love that. Yes, it is your superpower. Yeah.

Jennifer:

But it can be that for everybody and I know it's hard in the beginning because unlearning a habit's hard. So Rachel Hart taught me in her program I did that a couple of years before your program she's great, she's great.

Jennifer:

And in her book. Like the lower brain seeks pleasure and that's where, like, the habits are. So you have a bad day, someone hurts your feelings, like whatever's going on, if you train your lower brain to go pour a glass of wine and numb it out. It takes a while to unlearn that, but it's doable, we can do it and we can do hard things. That's. The other thing she talked about was have a mantra. I think it was her Like have a mantra, and I had this little mantra. I typed it up and it was on my phone and it said I can do hard things. So that's like kind of a mindset thing.

Deb:

No, that's so good and right and what? Okay, so, yes, it's hard to stop drinking, but it's also hard to keep drinking.

Jennifer:

It's hard to pick up with the hangover.

Deb:

It's hard to try to piece together what you said the night before, I mean. So they say well, choose your hard, and this once, especially once you get through the very beginning, this is a much easier heart. Yeah, now, it's not a dream. This is a dream life. Oh it's the freedom. It's a dream.

Jennifer:

There's no comparison really, because for me it wasn't like I was drunk and not remembering conversations. I would have a couple of glasses of wine, have a conversation and the next morning my husband, my son, whatever, like, do you remember we talked about this last night? And I'm like, oh shit, did we talk about that? Did we talk? And then you're like trying.

Deb:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like nothing bad has happened in my life since I stopped. I mean nothing bad's happened in my life since I stopped drinking. Obviously bad things happen. You know what I mean Like because I stopped drinking. Only obviously bad things happen. You know what I mean Like because I stopped drinking.

Jennifer:

Only good things have come into my life from stopping. Well, you don't have regrets Like there's. No, I think what I think it's like you don't have regrets about life is hard, right, and so how you react to things that happen in life are different when you're feeling fuzzy and tired and like. All of the effects that alcohol has on us physically and mentally, we now know from research thank you, andrew Huberman, listen to that podcast. Like all those things affect how we respond to the things that are happening in our lives, right. So when you're firing on all cylinders, like when you're thinking clearly and you don't have all the wires getting crossed, you are much more capable of dealing with whatever comes your way.

Jennifer:

You know, I have a friend who's just experienced a tremendous loss in her life and the first thought I had was I am so grateful she's not a drinker, like, she doesn't drink at all, it's just yeah, I think it's how we respond to what happens right, and we're much more capable of making good decisions, treating people the way we want to treat people, like all of it. So it's more about like. For me, it's like I'm not going to have regrets about how I've handled things or how I react to things, whereas before it was like, oh, that was the wine talking that night, yeah, yeah whatever, or not even maybe the wine that night, but the way it made you feel the next day when you had to deal with something the next day.

Jennifer:

So, yeah, it's for me it's like it is. It feels like a superpower.

Deb:

I love that he said that to you.

Jennifer:

Yeah, and I think he like he's the one of my boys that like has connected with me the most on this topic. As far as, like, I'm really proud of you and you know, they saw, they saw mama drink a lot of wine over the years and maybe even picked me up once in a while from someplace. But, yeah, it's better than I could have imagined. And if you asked me two years ago 300, and what did I say? No, 700. I looked it up, I have a tracker 760 days. If you asked me 760 days ago if I would go two plus years without drinking alcohol, I would have been like I couldn't even fathom it. I couldn't imagine a world where I didn't drink, because that sounded so what, like scary, like daunting, like impossible. What am I going to drink? How?

Deb:

am I going to have fun? How will I relax? Yeah, I think, like what you said, it is possible. It is possible. Yeah, and you and I were the exact same. Like there was, I could not have, I could not have imagined not drinking. That's having a glass of wine. We're celebrating, we're having a glass of wine, we're having two. Let's bring home the bottle. Let's go pick up more.

Jennifer:

Yeah, Like I look back. I was trying to clean photos off my phone the other day and I was. I got up to the COVID lockdown part of my pictures Four years in Okay. Yeah, like we thought it was funny because my grocery cart was all alcohol, like it was how many bottles of wine and a case of beer.

Jennifer:

It was like, and we had, we had over 21 kids at home sure, sure, yeah, you had, but I mean you know adult children with you, four of us, but it was like that was the big joke, like how do we cope with being locked in our homes and stuck? You know we spent a lot of time outside but still we called it. We did driveway drink. We were driveway drinking every afternoon same.

Deb:

Oh yeah, meeting in the cul-de-sac yeah neighborhood.

Jennifer:

Yep, and it's like, okay, this is how you cope well. When I look back at those pictures and I'm like holy cow, yeah, yeah same.

Deb:

Things have changed they have changed dramatically. They have.

Jennifer:

Yeah, it's so encouraging to read in the media about the statistics on younger people and the younger generation is turning away from alcohol. I mean, I just think that's fantastic. I just sent my youngest off to college and there's so much worry. Yeah, yeah, in a lot of places where you can kind of be anonymous and get lost and that kind of thing. So. But it is encouraging to see some of the statistics that we're seeing.

Deb:

The tight. Yeah, the younger generation is not drinking as much.

Jennifer:

Some of the research that's coming out. I referenced the Heberman Lab podcast. I encourage everybody to listen to that. It came out I know it was August, I think of 22. You can find it on any podcast platform.

Deb:

It's what his? Is it effects of alcohol, or is that what it's called? Or it's, andrew? If you Google Andrew Huberman alcohol, that'll be the one that comes up. It was the most downloaded podcast of 2023, of any podcasts in the world the most downloaded.

Jennifer:

Incredible. It's just really informative because it kind of connects all the dots and nobody had ever really studied moderate drinking. It had always been, you know, sort of like alcoholism and you know. But it's a wake-up call. Yeah, it's a wake-up call. I did say I sent one friend I talked to about it. I sent it to her and I said I'm so sorry you're hilarious well, I mean, huberman says the same thing in the podcast.

Jennifer:

Yeah, yeah, I'm not judging, I'm so sorry. Yeah, like he apologizes multiple times, like I'm sorry, but I'm telling, I'm reporting here's the facts, just Just reporting the news here.

Deb:

We're just reporting the news. Was it your goal in the beginning to be able to moderate? That was my goal. I wanted to just kind of slow down, just be able to moderate.

Jennifer:

Oh, for sure.

Deb:

To my wine ways. Just didn't want to want it as much.

Jennifer:

How many nights did we go out and say I'm just going to have one glass of wine, or at home, I'm just going to have one, have one glass of wine, or at home I'm just going to have one, right? And so I know we're everybody's wired differently. The way I characterize it is my off switch does not work.

Jennifer:

It's the same with sugar and alcohol. My off switch is broken. Off switch is broken. But I know a lot of people like me. Now I have friends who have an off switch. My husband totally has an off switch. They can take it or leave it. They can have one drink and be done. He was my driver for 30 years, my designated driver. I'm like I'll cover the next 50.

Jennifer:

Like I'm in, yeah, but it's interesting what you observe when you stop drinking, the behaviors that you observe in other people, and I can see there are a lot of people like us who don't have an off switch and you can see that it. And so I have to think, like it's pretty prevalent, absolutely, it's just, you know, we all get challenges in our lives and I just I just believe that, like this is one of my challenges. I had challenges with food all my life. Like it's not uncommon for women, right, like numbing, the numbing activities and Rachel Hart talks about that Like for women it, food, is a huge one and I think she she talks about food a lot because that was her, her as well. Food, alcohol, you know, for some people it's scrolling on Facebook, yeah, binge watching, netflix, movies, shopping these are things that we use to numb what we're feeling in a lot of cases, or to grease the wheels and make socializing easier too. But yeah, I really recommend her book too. It's a quick read, but yeah.

Deb:

I can't remember the name of her book. I'm looking on my shelf right now.

Jennifer:

Why can't I drink like everybody else? Oh?

Deb:

her book's excellent. Yeah, she was on the podcast. I loved having, I loved meeting her.

Jennifer:

I made a homemade cover for that book because I took it on a beach vacation and I was like embarrassed that someone might see it so like the cover and the title. It said that someone might see it. So like the cover, in the title. It said why can't I drink like everyone else? So I went back to like my middle school days when we had to make homemade book covers for our textbook.

Deb:

Did you do that? I love that Like with the like. Oh, I totally did. That was so fun, wasn't it? You would cut the bag, right, you cut the bag, or you would buy the covers. They sold covers, but we didn't pay for those. We just cut the bag, tape it up and then you decorate it. You would like write the name on it.

Jennifer:

I didn't decorate it but I made a book homemade book cover because I'm like I'm not walking around with this book around my kids to the beach in front of other people, like I didn't want anyone to see it. But it's a very, very good book.

Deb:

Very good book. It's excellent. It's an easy, it's a short read. But I will say it's so interesting how, in the very beginning, you were the same way. I was mortified that I was thinking about not drinking. I was so embarrassed that I was going to cut back or going to try to drink less. I was so embarrassed and now I would take that book somewhere. It wouldn't bother me. But in the beginning I would have been the same way. You're a reader, I wouldn't have been reading it. I would have been scrolling Okay, this is out, it's out. You got your copy. You have a copy in your hand.

Jennifer:

Well, I do, except it's like over there across the room I forgot to no. No, I meant you have one in my home, in my kitchen. I've looked through it. It's beautiful.

Deb:

Oh, thank you for being such a special part of this.

Jennifer:

I just want the best for you. I want the best for you because you're such an encouragement and I wouldn't be where I am without you If I had not, like, scrolled through Instagram one day and saw your reel and your special promotional price. Jennifer loves a discount. I love a discount.

Deb:

The way to her heart is offer it on discount. Yeah, that is how you signed up, right, because I think we offered like $50.

Jennifer:

Like at the last minute.

Deb:

Last minute, jen Butler and I did like a little Sober October, which was great, I shouldn't say little. We I did like a little sober October, which was great, I shouldn't say little. We did a nice sober October program, which was great.

Jennifer:

It was great. She did a little coaching and you made mocktails.

Deb:

I did the mocktails.

Jennifer:

Yeah.

Deb:

Yeah, I liked that because I'm not intellectual and I don't bring the. You know the statistics of all the. You know the coaching, the sober coach. I'm not a sober coach, but to have somebody to work with who is a sober coach or you know who is, you know, knows that, knows that side of things and like I'm like I just bring the fun of like there's still good things to drink, so it was a, it was a perfect for me. It felt very comfortable. I felt very comfortable that way.

Jennifer:

So I'm glad I'm forever. It just clicked Like that was the moment, like that was when it clicked and I this was. It was percolating for a couple years because I did Rachel Hart's program two summers before that. So I knew like this is a problem for me, like on some level it's a problem and I I need to solve it. So I was looking, I was looking like and again, like you said, it's like we all wish we could moderate or we wanna moderate, but when you just quit altogether, it's like it takes it out of your headspace, like it stops occupying all this space in your brain, right? And when you're trying to moderate all the time and like, stay focused, like no, tonight, it's one glass're trying to moderate all the time and like stay focused, like no, tonight, it's one glass, like you know, whatever it is, it takes it completely out of your head and it's so much easier.

Deb:

I think it's easier not to drink than to try to like. If I was trying to moderate, it'd be way harder for me. But yeah, there's no, no head. There's no head chatter anymore. You know, if he's going to have another one, it's gone.

Jennifer:

Yeah, and, and the more time that goes by, the less you think about it, like I hardly ever think about it Totally.

Deb:

Even when something happens, I'm not. My first thought isn't like oh my gosh, I need to, I need to get, I need to go get a get a drink, I need to go pour some wine. Not even my second thought anymore. Which?

Jennifer:

is really nice yeah.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer:

It's authentic freedom. You coined the phrase authentic freedom.

Deb:

It is authentic freedom. I didn't coin it, but I did trademark it you trademarked it. That's just as good. I started selling on shirts people.

Jennifer:

That's how it all happened. The best shirts out there. Yeah, I'm so glad you like them. Oh, they're so soft, I love them.

Deb:

Yeah, authentic freedom, and especially as us with our gray hair, even more authentic freedom, is like not coloring our hair over 50 is authentic freedom and not drinking. Thank you, my friend, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. This was so fun. I just love you.

Jennifer:

You're the best.

Deb:

I'm so grateful for you. I'm so grateful that you're a part of thriving alcohol free. You are such a special member and such a dear friend that you're a part of thriving alcohol free. You are such a special member and such a dear friend. And this book, the happiest hour truly would not be here today if it was not for this woman. So there you go, okay, love you. Love you too, big time. Cheers to you for tuning into the thriving alcohol free podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.