Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 126 | Mom, Rediscovered: Midlife Breakup with Drinking & Diet Culture

• Deb, Mocktail Mom

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Deb Podlogar welcomes back Jen Butler, an author and alcohol-free life coach, to discuss her debut memoir, Mom, Rediscovered.

They make a margarita mocktail together and explore Jen's journey through motherhood, sobriety, and the writing process, emphasizing the importance of self-compassion and sharing stories. 

Jen shares her experiences with alcohol, the challenges of parenting, and the strategies she used to navigate her alcohol-free life. The discussion highlights the transformative power of storytelling and the significance of trusting the process of change.


Mentioned in the episode: 

Click HERE to register for the free in-person book signing event in Louisville, Kentucky on 11/5/2025 

Today's mocktail recipe is available in The Happiest Hour 

All The Bitter use code MOCKTAILMOM for 15% off

TomoNotomo delish non-alcoholic agave spirit, code MOCKTAILMOM for 20% off. 

Follow Jen Butler on Instagram 


Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jen Butler and Her Journey
07:56 The Process of Writing a Memoir
14:28 Navigating Alcohol-Free Life
20:00 The Shift in Perspective on Sobriety
26:45 Practical Strategies for Sobriety
31:31 Trusting the Process of Change

Send me a message about the show!

Click HERE to snag a list of some of my favorite non-alcoholic drinks & brands.

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome up friends and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast. I'm your host, Deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you if alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, or you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass. I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Okay, hey friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol Free with Mocktail Mom. We're in for a treat today. She's back third time. You're the only guest who's ever been here three times. You know, I was wondering. This is actually very special. Amazing. Butler is in the house, and she's back, you guys, for such a huge reason. I cannot wait to talk to her today. She's the author of her memoir, Mom Rediscovered, which I have read. Okay. I'm not a big, as Jen knows, I'm not a book reader. I don't read books, but I read yours. Not only did I read the pre-copy, I printed the entire thing out. She sent me a PDF of it. It's incredible. She expected me to read it on um, you know, like on a phone or something, like on a computer. I'm like, I can't read that way. Printed the whole thing out. It's over, well, 272 pages. That is dedicated. It's incredible. It's incredible. You are a phenomenal writer. Absolutely phenomenal. The way you describe things. So we're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into your book. We're gonna get into your story. And but first, I want to read your bio and then um we're gonna make a mock tail together because that's that's what we're doing here on the on the podcast now. We're making a mock tail every time because I love it. We're all here to drink while we're not drinking. I love it. Okay, guys, Jen Butler is a writer, speaker, alcohol-free life coach for women, and fitness instructor who believes wholeheartedly in the transformative power of sharing stories. A mom of two middle schoolers, she draws from her. I'm the worst at reading out loud. Literally, Jen, I bet you were really good at this at school. You were a good student. She draws from her own journey through motherhood, midlife, and perimenopause to encourage women to practice self-compassion and forge meaningful connections, empowering them to take up space as their amazing, authentic selves in their families, friendships, careers, and communities. She's a graduate of Brown University and the University of Cambridge and lives with her family in Westchester County, New York.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. Love it. That's me.

SPEAKER_00:

That's you. That's you. And I am so happy to have you here today and just want to celebrate you. I feel like I should have balloons. I should have like pom poms. I mean, really, like as long as I've known you, your dream has been to be an author. Your dream has been to write a book.

SPEAKER_01:

You and I met really right at the start of that moment where I was like, not only do I want to write a book, but now I think I know what I want to write. And like that's when you came into my life. So you really, Deb, have been in my life for the duration of time that it has taken me to get this book out into the world.

SPEAKER_00:

It's incredible. Yeah. And that you've just, you've, you've made it happen. And it's so incredible. First, we're gonna make a mocktail, though. We're gonna make a mock tail. It's from my book called My Book is the Happiest Hour, but it's actually the very first recipe in the book, and I love the name. I think this is perfect for you. It's called Do It For You. It's a marguer on the rocks.

SPEAKER_01:

Do it for you, Jen. I mean, really, Deb, I feel like you made that recipe for me. I mean, I'm just I'm I'm going with it because margaritas are my favorite. And yes, that's, you know, I wrote the book for me and for everybody else. But you know, there we are. And one thing I love. Wait, can you hold up your book again? Hold up the cover. Look at the colors. In color palette. Look at the colors.

SPEAKER_00:

Isn't that funny? So cute. Purple and pink is our colors. Yes. And you're wearing your in-your mocktail era sweatshirt from the I don't think there's any more left on my mocktail mom shop, but I used to be. It's vintage. It's vintage. You're in your business. And it matches your podcast studio.

SPEAKER_01:

See, we're just this is how inhanna we are.

SPEAKER_00:

This is Hannah's whole bedroom. It was purple back in the day when we weak to learn our matching jammies. No, it's okay. Yeah. Okay, you guys. Yes. Jen is coming out to um Kentucky. We're doing a book launch event for her November 5th. So if you live in the Louisville, Southern Indiana, Kentuckyana, Indiaky area, you want to come to our event November 5th. It's the one year anniversary of my book coming out, and it's a launch party here in Kentucky for Jen Butler. So if you guys are interested in the best, please let me know. I'll put the uh the link to the evite in the show notes. Amazing. I'll do that. All right. Let's make our drink. Let's make our do it for you, a margarita on the rocks. Okay. We've got our shakers. Yep. Shake it up, baby. We're gonna do two ounces of non-alcoholic tequila. I'm actually using uh agave blanco from cut above. I already measured it out. Can I show what I'm using? Yeah, what are you using?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm using Trejos Spirits. That's some good. I like this one because it's smoky and I like a smoky, smoky flavor.

SPEAKER_00:

If you like the smoky flavor, you know what you might really like is a mezcal from Tomo No Tomo. Delicious. Okay, love that. Here we go. Two ounces of non-alcoholic tequila going in. But yeah, if you like the smokiness, that would be for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, Deb, I'm assuming you're measuring with your heart. You know me. I am measuring with my beaker. I'm actually measuring today. I actually did measure. Wait, you did I did. Dev, after all these years, I know. Yes. Now measuring. I do think that you would set a beakers then.

SPEAKER_00:

I do love that you have a beaker because you are very type A. Would it be right to say that? Would it be an okay description to say type A? Sure is, yes. And I would be like type Z.

SPEAKER_01:

Type D for dev?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know. We're a really good, yeah, we're a match. Okay. One ounce lime juice. I actually squeezed fresh squeeze lime juice. Listen to you. Straight into the shaker. Fans. And then we're gonna do about you could do like a half an ounce of orange juice. I'm actually just gonna do some um dashes of orange all the bitter.

SPEAKER_01:

I actually have some orange all the bitter as well, which makes me feel very, very elite. Let's just do that. So you can just do like a couple dashes of dropper. Should I, what do you recommend?

SPEAKER_00:

Like I would say like three.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe do three dropper falls. Wow.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Why not? That's just yeah, exactly. Alcohol-free bitters, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. Yes. All the bitter. It smells so good, doesn't it? Really good. All right. And then we're gonna do half an ounce of agave.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm measuring with my heart on this one because I have this huge thing. I measured out.

SPEAKER_00:

I did look at you. I'm ready. Measuring out. Here we go. I have no idea how much I need his. And then this is a little trick I learned from um all the bitter, actually from Ian Blessing, to add like a little pinch of salt. I don't know if I even told you that. I don't think I did. No, you didn't. I'm just gonna do a little bit. I didn't need to prepare, so I don't have salt. But that's a prepare. You totally prepared. I didn't prepare you properly. Imagine that. Okay, we're gonna give this a little shake, right? I'm not missing any ingredients. No, I don't think so. All right, we're gonna give a little shake. I have my real shaker. Okay. So official. Yay! Okay. I have my glass ready to go. My glass. And look, I even put a rim on it. Yes, you're ready. You've got a little taheen rim though. I love that. Yeah. Taheen, a little salt. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I just opened my shaker.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, whoopsies. I forgot it has a kid. You don't have to be a professional. There we go.

SPEAKER_01:

You can just okay now. Very nice. I won't tell you how much I just spilled on my pants.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you wet your pants? It's fine. We're fine. Is that what's happening? Okay, I'm gonna scone stuff out of the way here. Hang on. Scoot this out of the way. It's in. Whoa. Oh, I'm excited. Okay. Jen. Deb. Big time cheers to you. Big time cheers to you. And to your memoir, Mom Rediscovered. Thank you. Best-selling future best-selling author. I have absolutely no doubt.

unknown:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

You're the best of many books. Okay. So good. Oh, that's so good. I love that. I love it. I love it. Okay, available in the happiest hour. Do it for you guys. Do it for you. Do it for you. Drink mocktails, you know, for you. You don't have to zone out. Do it for you guys. Okay, here we go. Let's talk about the book. Do you want to talk about, do you want to start with like just navigating this whole process? Because it's been a process. I which, yes, as an accidental author, as a significant author, I didn't realize what a process it was, and I absolutely hated it. Unlike you, my goal was not to write a book. It just kind of happened. But I want you to share about being alcohol free through this whole process because it's a huge challenge.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. Well, first of all, I there would be no book if I were not alcohol free on every level. But I, you know, that's really this book is my story of kind of nosediving into gray area drinking and wine mom culture and then how I got out of that. So while I've wanted to write a book my entire life since I started journaling in middle school, but probably even before that, I have wanted to hold my book in my hands my entire life. Wow. Um, I really didn't, and I knew I wanted to do some sort of memoir because I've always journaled. I just like telling stories about my life. But I I didn't know what my story was until I started stopping drinking. And once I started taking those breaks and realizing, which for me started with dry January in 2018, I start and I started just gaining clarity and being able to look at my life and experience alcohol-free life. I thought, oh, maybe I'm, maybe I'm on an arc here. Maybe I'm onto something. And certainly once I became alcohol free, I thought, okay, you know, this is it. I've got my story. And I started writing that story. I started writing basically my quit lit memoir. So quitlit is the genre of all, I'm sure your listeners know. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Many books about people quitting drinking. A lot of quitlit books are rock bottom stories because, you know, those are the books that get book deals, right? The out, the huge arc of like, oh, I almost died. And those stories, I I've been inspired by stories like that. I think those stories are very important, but that's not my story. I never had a rock bottom story. I just, I was able to create the changes that I needed to create with my relationship with alcohol without professional help. So while it's not a such a dramatic story as a rock bottom story, I think it's a much more relatable story. And it's really something that a lot of people deal with. So for a few years, I was, I was writing my Quitlet book. And at the same time, I was navigating alcohol-free life. And, you know, Deb, I feel like I don't know if this happened to you as much as or as profoundly as it happened to me. But when you stopped drinking, but I remember thinking, I don't drink anymore. Like all my problems are solved. Like I just thought, like, if I can get drinking under control and like that'll be it. But actually, it just opened my eyes to all the other work I had to do in my life and on myself. And at first that was extremely daunting. But then it wasn't because then I thought, well, I can do this, you know, I can figure out what I want to do with fitness. I can figure out my relationship with food. Like it all all this stuff that was weighing on me for so long that I drank to numb myself to, so I didn't have to deal with it, became deal with a bull. You know? I like that deal with a ball. Yeah. I just the new term. I like that word. Yes, I love it. Yeah. Deal with a ball. So I had sort of written my quitlet book, and then I thought, you know, there's actually so much more to this story that I want to tell. And so I just kept going. I kept writing. And that turned into the book that I now have coming out on October 21st. So it's really, it's a lot about my childhood and kind of the societal messaging and the familial patterns that sent me into my gray area drinking, then about how I got myself out of that, but then also about what came after and how I navigated alcohol-free life and perimenopause during COVID and all sorts of other fun stuff. And so that's really the overarching storyline. And I just cannot wait for this book to be out in the world.

SPEAKER_00:

You're doing a great job uh marketing your book. I mean, you've already got reviews on, right? Good reviews, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, on Goodreads. Yep. Yep. I have reviews on Goodreads that have been amazing. Goodreads, good reads. Sorry. What do I know? So technical.

SPEAKER_00:

Goodreads, good reviews. They are good, they're good reviews on Goodreads. There's a lot of good reviews over there for you. Yes. No, you've done an excellent job. Yeah. Um okay. I have so many things highlighted in your book and also like pages literally in this printed out version. I love it. Pages flipped down, you fold it over. Okay. So it started. Can I just read something for page six? Of course, yeah. Um, you're talking about like so maybe you can share about how, so you're in Weight Watchers, you're sh and you start sharing in that app, right? Some sober girls in the app that you were gonna try to do an alcohol-free test. Am I right? A little dry January. Give it a try. Exactly. Um, the drinking though, I was starting to feel ashamed about my drinking. I lied about the amount I drank. I started drinking before my husband got home, but pretended to pour my first glass when he walked through the door. I entered erroneously low numbers into my Weight Watchers Points tracker, but I couldn't fool myself. I knew the truth and I'd known it for a while. I was drinking too much and it was taking a toll. I I think it's so powerful just that like the drinking though, I was starting to feel ashamed of my drinking. How many of us, right? Like I would pour my first glass. Oh, I'm pouring my do you want something to drink? I'm gonna have a drink.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Right? Was that like it's like you just spoke out of my brain? That was my line. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But do you want something? I'm gonna have something, as it's like my third, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

Just like Or how about when you went to the doctor and you had to write how many units of alcohol you had every week? I mean, I completely lied on that. In my head, I would do the quick math. Like, wait, what's the recommended for women? Okay, that's okay. And then write a number. And it was, you know, definitely not that number.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. And now when I go and I write it, I'm like, zero. And I write big, huge zero with a line through it, you know? Um yeah, what was that like? I want to hear really from you about like how because you open with the book talking about like the Weight Watchers app and doing dry January. What was that like when you first hit post and you first shared kind of the very first time about what you were struggling with?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So yeah, so my book opens with the moment I asked for help because that was the moment that everything changed for me. I had tried to take breaks before. I would say to myself, I'm gonna take a week off, or I'm gonna do dry January, but I tried all of that for years, for years, and nothing stuck. And it that is because I was trying to do that all on my own in my own head. And the wine witch, who also was in my head, was a lot stronger than that little voice that said, but I don't want to drink tonight. You know, she would weigh in and say, like, but of course you're drinking tonight because you drink every night. It's a Wednesday. Exactly. Treat yourself, right? So I had been on Weight Watchers for a while. And I get as we go further into the book, I talk about actually breaking up with diet culture. But I'm very grateful that I was on Weight Watchers at this time because at that at this time in my life, because on their app, they had kind of a social media channel. And on that channel, I started lurking around and finding comments about alcohol and people not drinking. And there was a group of women that identified themselves using the hashtag sober sisters. And so I started looking at all of their posts and thought, like, gosh, these ladies seem really nice. And also, strangely, they seem really excited about the fact that they don't drink. I don't know how they're so happy, but like I want some of what they're having. So I decided that was how I was going to try this next break of dry January 2018 was by reaching out to them. And I basically just said, you know, I've become the mom that that can't go for more than a day or two without drinking, and that needs to change, but I have no idea how to do it and how I could possibly go a whole month. And they, these women who did not know me, weren't following me yet, all started immediately started commenting, like, you got this, you can do it. Read this book, listen to this podcast, try this seltzer, like all these wonderful suggestions that I still to this day suggest to women who either coach with me or just ask me how to get started. Um, I could not have done or I would not be where I am without the sober sisters. And what is so crazy is that I still will never know who most of them are or were, you know? Isn't that wild? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You're just like, you have like a username, you're in this app. Yeah. Isn't that incredible?

SPEAKER_01:

A few of them, more than a few, a handful of them have found me on Instagram. Because obviously I'm not on the Weight Watchers app anymore, but a bunch of them found me on Instagram and are following me. And um, and that is wonderful. So I am friends with several of them to this day, but there are dozens of women who I hope somehow they'll know about this book and somehow they'll know that they changed my life. Um, but even if they don't know, hopefully they'll at least have good karma coming their way.

SPEAKER_00:

And isn't that it's amazing though, because we don't know how our sharing our stories or just encouraging others, what a difference that's making. Whether you have a large platform, a small platform, or you're just talking one-on-one with the girlfriend while you're all watching your kids, you know, at a game or just sharing about what you're going through. We never know the impact, the positive impact we can have by sharing our story. Yeah, which is so important. Yeah, and make sure you guys uh Jen's Instagram is at Jen ButlerWrights, is her Instagram handle. So make sure you're following her if you're not already doing so. Okay, I think I texted you this page. I think I texted you the sentence from this page back when I was reading your book. Okay, it's on page 191 of my printed out PDF version. I don't know what page it'll be on for everybody else when you get the actual book. When I get my actual book, I'll check. But it's like a light bulb moment after like a heavy night of drinking where you've basically concluded, like, I can't do this anymore. Then you say, This is the this is the sentence, my favorite sentence from the whole book. Instead of feeling shackled to a sober future, I felt free from the chains of my drinking past. Instead of feeling shackled to a sober future, I felt free from the chains of my drinking past. I mean, I felt so shackled. I felt like I was dragging around a U-Haul of shame. I think so many of us, we felt so shackled. And the thought of sobriety or not drinking or drinking a lot less, whatever it was for us, for me, the thought of not drinking ever, you know, becoming sober, I used to think that would have been like a prison. Like, what do you mean? I'm not gonna drink. Yes, you know, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01:

I'd rather lug around this, as you said, a U-Haul of shame than put myself in a prison cell for the rest of my life. Of sobriety. Sure. It's worth carrying this heavy load of shame every day because the alternative is just being locked away forever. Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

In this torturous not drinking existence. Not drinking, how I have fun, how I relax, how I manage my life, how I handle my marriage, like all of it. No, I felt free from the chains of my drinking past. And that perfectly describes the authentic freedom I feel in my alcohol-free journey. It's true freedom. It's true freedom in what we thought would be the exact opposite. How is that? It's remarkable, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

It really is.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, people don't realize. Anyway, that's my favorite sentence.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember writing that sentence and being like, oh, like sometimes this is one thing I love about being a writer is that like when a sentence like that comes out, it's just like magic best feeling when you're like, oh, nailed it. Nailed it. Nailed it. You nailed it. Because not only is that like exactly how I felt, but it sounds really good. You know, it just, it's such a this is I I just love this.

SPEAKER_00:

You nailed it. You nailed it. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, what what specifically about that experience solidified just this profound shift for you in perspective? What about it?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, that's so interesting, right? Because as I said, you know, I I didn't have a rock bottom moment. Yeah. So I don't have a moment of, you know, going to jail or getting, you know, wrecking my car. Thank goodness. Thank goodness I don't. Um, you know, what I have is one morning where I woke up having been sick the night before and had to hide my hangover from my kids. And I think that that is the piece that made it my kind of soft rock bottom, as I like to call it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it was the first time that they I couldn't get out of bed that morning and because I was so sick. And they, you know, come, they were, I think, about three and five at the time, come like running into the room, like jumping on the bed, like, good morning, mama. I felt awful. I smelled disgusting. Like it just I felt awful. Sure. And and I had to lie to them and just say, like, oh no, mama's not feeling well. I mean, it wasn't a lie, but I didn't tell them the whole truth, certainly. And so I think that's really what it was for me was just this moment of like, oh no, this is not it. This is not how I want to show up for my kids. And this is not how I want to show up for myself. I never want to get sick from drinking ever again, and I never want to have to hide a hangover from my kids.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because the shame of that was too much. That was like the final, you know, bowling ball of shame on top of the U-Haul that was like done, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Boy, I remember those.

SPEAKER_01:

Even though I didn't know, listen, and don't think that I stopped drinking after that, Deb. I did not stop drinking after that moment, but I started doing more research and thinking about how can I actually create some real lasting change here?

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. Wow. How is it parenting middle schoolers now? Now that they're they're not three and five anymore. Yeah. How is it parenting middle schoolers? These three and five, three and five-year-olds are now in middle school. They're running them all in. And how is it being alcohol free, right? They're not, I mean, they're not running into your room probably on a Saturday morning anymore, bouncing, jumping up on the bed, but you know, they have schedules and stuff, and you're not navigating it with a hangover.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. It's the best.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It is the best. I remember when they were little and they would have um, you know, a karate class until six o'clock or something. And I would think to myself, like, oh, this is cutting into my wine time, you know, and I like couldn't wait to get home and open the wine. And now they're they're all over the place, and I'm just able to be so present for them. Yeah. And I have to drive my daughter to Staten Island. We live um north of New York City, so I have to drive all the way through New York City, through Brooklyn, to Staten Island once a week for her football practice because she plays flag football for a team that's based on Staten Island. Oh, she's a rock star.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's remarkable to think about if I were still drinking, how torturous those nights would feel. Because I can't drink on those nights. I wouldn't be able to drink on those nights because I have to start driving at four and we don't get back till 10. So there goes my drinking window, right? And if I were still drinking, those nights, I just know like I would be cranky. They would make me miserable. I would feel just the biggest FOMO. Like I can't just be home with my wine. And instead, they are, it's my favorite night of the week. Well, the gridlock part is not my favorite. Yeah. Two hours of gridlock it takes to get there, not my favorite. But hanging out with her wonderful football family, friends there on Staten Island, just getting to know new neighborhoods and Staten Island is a hidden gem, just FYI. It really is. It is. It's Staten Island is a great place. And just being able to be fully present. And the most important part are the conversations that we have in the car. Like those car ride conversations are just so wonderful. And none of that would be happening if I were still drinking. Totally. I, you know, I just wouldn't be able to do that. I wouldn't be able to show up for her for either of my kids.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally.

SPEAKER_01:

So I love parenting without alcohol. Not even to mention they never see me drinking, right? Yeah. And just the message that that sends them versus the message that I got as when I was their age, which was adults drink every day, and alcohol is just an integral part of adulthood.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They're not getting that message. And that is something that I am so proud of and just I'm so grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00:

Gift that you're giving them. Boy, I think I don't know. It's like under this hidden secret of parenting, the time in the car, right? That's when all the best conversations happen. It's never when you're like, okay, we're gonna sit down and have a talk. No, it's in the car, it's running those errands. It's like they're in the car with you and they the talking happens. It just starts happening. Yeah. Yep. The magic, magic moments in the fold.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I will never have had a drink before or after any of those conversations. You know, it's just so great. I mean, when they were little, if I ever took them out for dinner, you know, I'd have a glass of wine at dinner and then drive home. Sometimes I had two glasses of wine and then drove home with them in the car. I, you know, I don't like having to say that. I don't like that I did that. I'm certainly not proud of it, but I also accept that that's where I was in my life. And now I'm in a different place. And I'm just so glad to be in the place that they're.

SPEAKER_00:

You're free. Yeah, you're free. Okay, chapter 23, page 221. I was now alcohol free. I still couldn't quite believe it, but my nightly cravings were gone. You had broken the habit, you say. Then this is one of my another favorite sentence. You said, I was giving up alcohol to solve my most pressing issue, my dysfunctional relationship with it. That was great and all, but the problem was achieving mental clarity, increased energy, and broader brain bandwidth. Was that now all my other issues were laid bare, kind of what you were talking about a few minutes ago. Okay, this is one of my favorite sentences. I was flying a personal cargo plane filled with childhood trauma, negative body image, financial insecurity, and decimated professional self-confidence. And I had no ejector button. I could no longer turn to booze to numb the discomfort I felt in those areas of my life. The only way was through. The only way through was through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Jim out all my favorite parts.

SPEAKER_00:

Really? I didn't even ask. I mean, literally, these are the parts I've highlighted. I have pages like pulled, you know, folded over and stuff. But I mean, I could no longer turn to booze to numb the discomfort I felt in those areas of my life. The only way through was through. I feel that like with my parents, like grieving my parents, you know, when they first passed away, the first couple of years, I was drinking. And then that first year of not when I wasn't drinking, I should say 2021, I guess. In that fall was my first year grieving their passing, their anniversary of their passings and stuff without alcohol. And the only way through was just you have to go through it. You there's no escape hatch. There's no escape hatch to that. So yeah, yeah, that's you're a phenomenal writer. I think I've said that like 15 times. Okay. Um, what practical strategies or mind shifts um prove most effective in silencing like the wine witch and creating a new mental bandwidth for you?

SPEAKER_01:

I would say, let's see. Oh, that wine witch. Because, you know, she still will creep up every once in a while. I'm I'm almost seven and a half years. She's never died. And she unfortunately doesn't die. She just resurrects herself over and over. And there are moments, and you know, or she or for me, she'll take other forms, right? So she'll be like, you know, just like grab a spoon and open that jar of Nutella, or like just go scroll on your phone. She's really like become, I guess she's kind of evolved in my brain from the wine witch to like the dopamine witch. Oh. So I, you know, so the strategies that I initially used to stop drinking, I now use with these other areas, like any, anytime I want to escape, right? It's really the same strategies, and that's really helpful because they apply. So one that's really important is I, you know, hitting the fast forward button or like visualizing, you know, how you're gonna feel both if you do the thing that you're tempted to do and if you don't. So, you know, for me with with alcohol, I would think to myself, you know, when that five o'clock rolled around and I would feel that that super strong urge to grab wine out of the wine fridge, I would think to myself, if you drink that wine, you're gonna have a very hard time stopping at one glass. And then that might turn into three, and that might turn into more. And the more you drink, the worse you are going to feel. And guess what? Tomorrow, you wanna be present for your kids. You wanna have energy when you wake up in the morning. So you will get a very a minimal, like a momentary boost from that dopamine hit when you pour your wine. Because guess what? The dopamine flares when you're even pouring the wine, not even when you start drinking it. So you'll get that momentary boost and then it's all downhill, and you will not be able to come back up. And you deserve to feel uh better, and you deserve to not go into that dip from which you're not gonna be able to recover. You know, you deserve to feel good, and this is gonna feel good for a moment, but then it's gonna feel bad. So instead, think about something that will just help you feel good. So for me, you know, it's a flavored seltzer, it's a mocktail, you know, or instead of reaching for the Nutella, it's like just grabbing something else that's actually nourishing my body instead of sending me on this crazy sugar high from which I'm going to crash.

SPEAKER_00:

So good. That's so true. You deserve to feel good. We deserve to treat ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. And it's that what you said about like the dopamine comes when you're pouring the wine. I didn't realize that until I stopped drinking. Like that it was like it was just the thinking about it, the getting it. That was like the that was like the start of the high, you know, the Pavlov's dog. It was like, I was already salvating thinking about it, you know. Didn't realize it. Yeah, but we deserve to feel good. Yeah. Okay. Any last little bits that you want to share about your first memoir, Mom Rediscovered. Anything else you'd like to share about it for those who are listening? I want everybody to pre order because you can't print it out like I did. You're going to pre order it. I'm going to, I've already got mine pre ordered.

SPEAKER_01:

It's she's very pretty. She's very pretty the actual book instead of printing. Yes. Um, I just I love that you printed it out. So, what I want to share is that. I remember, Deb, when you got your book deal. And I thought to myself, she doesn't even want to write a book. She's a shit. And here's I have wanted to write a book my whole life. I'm sorry. And I have to. I'm sorry. And now I still don't know like how I'm going to get my book out in the world. And I will tell you, it my book could not have come out into the world in any other way or on any other time, time frame, timeline. Right. So I remember when you got that book deal, like I thinking, like, oh man, like that's what I want. I want that so badly. But even if I had gotten a book deal when you got yours around that time, it my book would not be the book that I wrote. So I guess, you know, what I want to say is just trust yourself, trust your gut, and trust that things are working and playing out at the pace that they need to and that they're meant to. Yeah. You know, and I think that that applies to quitting drinking as well. Like I kept trying to force it and force myself to stop. And and it just didn't feel right. And finally I got to a point where I wanted, I really wanted to not drink. Or more specifically, I wanted to want to not drink. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And you can't, unfortunately, you can't just flip a switch and and have that happen. You've got to do more living and and do more, more, you know, have more ups and downs. But ultimately, you everyone is capable of creating the change that they want to create. Totally. Firmly believe that.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. Yep. And I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm so excited for everyone to read my book.

SPEAKER_00:

I I'm I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. And you're right. Like things happen. They happen in the timing they're supposed to happen. I mean, I I personally just feel like God has such a wonderful plan for my life and things that I thought should have happened years ago. It's like, no. And then I see it and I go, wow, wow. And it's even better. You know, plans are better than I when I'm forced, trying to force something. He's like, no, no, I've got it, I got it, I got it. Just I got you. I got you. Relax. It's okay. So everybody pre-order. Mom rediscovered, first-time author, Jen Butler, one of my favorite people. Follow her on Instagram. Jen Butler writes, pre-order your book, all the good stuff. I love you so much, my friend. I love you, Dev. This mocktail is for you. I cannot wait to see you. Everybody come see us. We're going to be live and in person November 5th, celebrating uh Jen's book launch here in Kentucky and the one year anniversary of the happiest hour and the election, because my book came out on election day, which I think was hilarious. I'm like, well, when America wants to drink, here we go. Let's have some mocktails. All right. I love you, my friend. Love you, Deb. Thank you. Big time cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flair, or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.