"I Reckon I've Got a Good Chance Against Ngannou" with Romford Bull Johnny Fisher

This week, I have heavyweight contender Johnny Fisher, boasting an undefeated record and a knockout punch, here to share his journey to the top. From humble beginnings to the ring lights, Johnny discusses his passion for boxing, drawing parallels with rugby and highlighting the sport's camaraderie. Amidst the chaos of battle, he offers insights into his mindset and the role of his coach, reflecting on choosing boxing over academia and the mental challenges it entails. Johnny also touches on handling social media criticism, the grueling nature of training, and the financial aspects of the sport, providing valuable advice for aspiring boxers. Step into the ring with Johnny Fisher and discover what it takes to be a heavyweight contender.

TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:02 - Where did it begin?
5:37 - Do you feel alone as a boxer?
6:33 - Can You Hear Your Coach From The Sidelines?
9:25 - Johnny's Education
12:59 - Boxing over a Degree
13:56 - Debut Pro Fight - Do You Ever Get Scared?
17:46 - Is it just Hype Pre-Fight?
19:05 - Overcomplicating Things in Boxing
23:58 - Heavyweight Class Weight Range and Fights
26:01 - Any Highlight Fights During Your Career?
28:10 - Social Media Hate
31:17 - Training Regimes and Daily Life In and Out of Camp
33:22 - Sleep, Nutrition, Sauna's and Ice Baths
37:08 - Mindset and Learning New Things
38:05 - Was Boxing for Financial Reasons or for Love and Fun?
40:15 - How Boxers and the Team Earn Money
44:52 - Money - Financial Goals, Investments... Is there an Endgame? 
46:49 - Having a Relationship as a Fighter
50:01 - Any opponents you're looking forward to fighting?
50:54 - How long do you expect the fighting career to last?
52:26 - Thoughts on Current State of Heavyweight Division
53:48 - Francis Ngannou vs Anthony Joshua Fight
55:35 - Jake Paul vs Mike Tyson - Thoughts on Crossover Fights?
57:27 - One Piece of Advice for Amateur/Prospective Boxers?

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Who Is Matt Haycox? - Click for BADASS Trailer

As an entrepreneur, investor, funding expert and mentor who has been building and growing businesses for both myself and my clients for more than 20 years, my fundamental principles are suitable for all industries and businesses of all stages and size.

I’m constantly involved in funding and advising multiple business ventures and successful entrepreneurs.

My goal is to help YOU achieve YOUR financial success! I know how to spot and nurture great business opportunities and as someone who has ‘been there and got the t-shirt’ many times, overall strategies and advice are honest, tangible and grounded in reality.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I reckon I've got a good chance against Zingano. Yeah, you reckon you could take him out in one round. I've got the power to stop him 100%. Mr.

Speaker 2: 0:06

Johnny Fisher. Welcome to the show. Thanks very much, matt. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1: 0:09

I don't think anyone expects a heavyweight boxer to have come from a different sport. Boxing was always the sport I wanted to do. You went to Vegas to do that sparring at the expense of your degree.

Speaker 2: 0:19

I think it's more impressive that that I managed to finish it whilst doing the sparring.

Speaker 1: 0:22

February 2021, debut fight. You didn't have an audience, didn't have an audience.

Speaker 2: 0:26

It was pitch black and there's just people in COVID suits. How are you with your nutrition? Very good. If you see me on Instagram and social media, you know I love a Chinese, like my dad, big John.

Speaker 1: 0:34

When you see people at the weigh-ins you're like I'm going to kill you.

Speaker 2: 0:38

You convince yourself that you're better to be able to do damage and win.

Speaker 1: 0:41

Francis Ngannou and Joshua fight recently ended in a decisive victory for Joshua.

Speaker 2: 0:46

It's what is to be expected. Really, it didn't happen a few months ago when Fury fought Ngannou. A lot of people fought Ngannou one. I personally fought Fury one.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Hey, matt Haycox here, with a quick interruption just to say I hope you're liking the show, but please, please, please, like, subscribe or comment. That's how we can bring you better guests, that's how we can make the show better each week. So please, please, that's all I ever ask of you. We never charge, we never ask anything else. Just please give it a few moments of your time, guys. Welcome to stripping off with Matt Haycox, where we strip off our guests to learn their story and find out what they're made of and what we can learn from them. And today's guest is clearly made of six foot something of solid muscle. I'm glad he's a few feet away from me just in case I say anything I shouldn't do. But no, he is a knockout guest, he's a heavyweight champion and he's none other than the Romford Bell.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Romford Bell, that's a pretty name that one, the Romford Bull, much fiercer, mr Johnny Fisher. Johnny, welcome to the show. Thanks very much, matt.

Speaker 2: 1:51

Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1: 1:53

Listen, we were having a good chat before we started and it was interesting to learn some bits about your story, which I think you're 25, did you say?

Speaker 2: 2:00

25,.

Speaker 1: 2:01

yeah, I mean to see your 25, such a, I guess, such a busy and already diverse story. I mean, I don't think anyone expects a heavyweight boxer first of all to have come from a different sport of rugby which is, I guess, impressive in its change enough itself but to then have studied history at uni, to have wanted to be a barrister and then have made these changes. I'm sure there's going to be some interesting stories to tell. So let's take it back to your childhood and tell me what you were like as a kid and where all this began.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Yeah, this is something that gets spoken a lot about my rugby background. But to be honest, boxing was the first love. Always. I boxed a member of Laced Up A Pair Of Gloves when I was four or five years old and went to Onga ABC as my first amateur club Done a lot of gym shows there. They called them so, like when you were before 11 years old you did gym shows and have them sort of fights before you get carded and become an amateur boxer. I then had ten amateur fights. Six of them were before I broke my hand playing rugby.

Speaker 1: 2:58

What age is this teenager?

Speaker 2: 2:59

This is like up, which is like up to the age of 14. So I'd had some gym shows and then I had six junior fights and then I played rugby at the first sixth form. I went to my sixth form, I went to Coopers. After I went to Marshalls at secondary school and I broke my hand in the first ever game I played and I wasn't really clued up in rugby but I loved it and I was aggressive and I loved playing with my mates and I learnt as I went.

Speaker 2: 3:25

And for the next two, three years I went to Exeter, played rugby.

Speaker 2: 3:26

There was in the first team for the Freshers who were there and it was really high level and I wasn't really experienced in rugby and all these boys had come from very, very great schools and it was great to learn and pick their brains and be in a completely different environment and I think that was the first taste of what high level professional sport would be like for me in the weights rooms with the high performance programs we had, and that stood me in good stead.

Speaker 2: 3:48

But boxing was always the sport I wanted to do since I was young and I'd done a little bit more of it for a bit of fitness for the rugby on the side, had a couple of knockout wins at amateur level and then started sparring. A guy called Joe Joyce and a guy called Dave Allen COVID came around and it seemed like my childhood dream of being a boxer was coming back and I thought why not give it a go? I don't know how far I'll get. And I've still got that mentality. I don't ever look too far ahead. And now I'm 11 fights in 10 knockouts, 11 wins and I'm feeling in a good place.

Speaker 1: 4:19

What kind of I guess similarities or parallels could you draw between rugby and boxing, if any? I mean, I guess all sports have their similarities, but one. You're on your own, you're part of a team and they're both quite rough sports, very rough sports. Any learning experiences from one you take to the other? Definitely when.

Speaker 2: 4:37

I went to Exeter and I first went to the pre-season there and I was a newbie to rugby. Basically I played one season, a couple seasons at my, my sixth form and there was the idea of I was on my own as well because it was very, very cutthroat. All the boys at Exeter come from nice posh schools, good, privileged backgrounds. There was a few normal kids like me but I was not outcasted but I wasn't in the clique of the, the Bromsgrove boys or the, the Millfield boys who'd been to these proper rugby colleges and I felt like an outsider and you weren't made to feel welcomed by the other boys because everyone's in competition with each other. But that camaraderie grew and a lot of the boys not just me you mature as you get older, from 18, 19, 20 and everyone matured and you become mates at the end of it.

Speaker 2: 5:22

But there was that outsider feeling I had at the beginning and I made some great friends. I had a great time at Exeter. But that sort of mentality of being on your own, I got that from the Exeter days as well, right at the beginning, and you learn to deal with that and that hardened me a little bit. Being an outsider there. It was great.

Speaker 1: 5:39

Do you feel I know you say you feel alone anyway, or you felt alone, but do you feel more alone as a boxer, where it is truly you're on your own, or do you still consider yourself part of a team, because they are the team that make you?

Speaker 2: 5:51

You have a team. I've got great trainers, I've got great strength and condition, I've got managers, promoters. But boxing is truly a sport where you're alone and I don't mind that. To be honest listen, I do when I say I was alone in rugby. You're not alone, but you have to gel and become a team and you have to become friends with them. Boys, and you eventually do. I do miss that team spirit you've got when you're getting smashed by another team but you're all giving it 110%. I do miss their memories going to Wales and playing on a cold, dark, dreary night over there. I miss that. But boxing truly is a special sport, like any combat sport, where you're on your own, you are truly. Once that bell goes and everyone gets out of the ring, all the ring, announcers, promoters get out, it's just you versus another bloke and everyone's watching you and there's nothing more that can be done. So it truly is you on your own.

Speaker 1: 6:34

I mean when you're in the ring. One thing I've always wondered you know, you're out there fighting and let's say you're on the back foot, your opponent's got the better of you and your corner shouting coaching, tips you, whatever it may be, jab him, key your hand up. Whatever I mean. A, can you hear it? And B, if you can, are you listening to it, thinking my coach is telling me the right thing? Are you thinking fuck off, mate, I'm in here, get my head smashed in? It's a great question.

Speaker 2: 7:01

I'll do the best I can. It is a great question. I'll do the best I can. It is a great question and it's weird because I can always hear certain voices in my head when I'm boxing and people are in the crowd. A lot of it's just muffled white noise, but you always hear your trainer because one they're right next to you on the ring apron and as you go through your career from fight one to where I am now fight 11, you get better at retaining the information and my my attempt fight was very, very good for that because it went seven rounds. I was fighting a good kid who had a lot of experience boxing for england. I won the southern area title against him and that was great because it gave me them seven rounds to really communicate and learn with mark tibbs, who my trainer is.

Speaker 2: 7:36

But then there's also other voices outside of that. My dad's I can always hear and, uh, uh, one of my dad's good friends, jimmy. It's just randomly. I can always hear his voice as well and that might be because he's been, I've grown up around him and he's got boxing experience himself. But there's just certain voices you hear and I'll see people around the ring after the fight and they're like literally as close as all them, but I never hear their voices.

Speaker 2: 7:55

But it's always my dad and Jimmy, for some reason, and he'll watch this and I hope he takes respect for that, because I say it in a respectful way. I respect his word and I respect him as a man and he's experienced in boxing as well and I can always hear him and my dad. You can hear him going Bosh, yeah, bosh Sometimes. So Bosh in him, but then you get all the other people showing out and it's great that people want to support him. You don't need to hear all them, but they're saying knock him out, jab and, as you said, fucking hell. That's what I'm trying to do anyway, so I don't need to hear that. I'm trying to do that all the time.

Speaker 1: 8:27

But from your coach and some of the things he's telling you, I mean, do you actually realise you're in there or are you saying the right thing? I don't know I am dropping my hand or I am going a bit weak on him or not punching him when I should do.

Speaker 2: 8:41

Yeah, it's good, it's great to. I've got a great connection with my coach and when we're in the corner together he's an excellent corner man. He's world class Mark. He's trained Billy Joe Saunders. He's trained Dillian White. He's boxed himself. He's had 23 professional fights, I believe Boxed for England. His dad's Jimmy Tibbsabouts. You are in the fight. What you need to do better and the instructions are simple and I think that's that's all you need in an environment where it's intense. You don't need to be everything dressed up. He'll tell you the truth and he'll tell you what you need to do better and it does give you. I always say to him before fight listen, mark. As long as I listen to you, I'm not going to go too far wrong. I've just got to take your advice on board and execute it. So that's all you need in an environment like that.

Speaker 1: 9:25

I tell you what? There's quite a lot I want to talk to you about boxing, obviously, and some specific fights. But just to wrap up your kind of teenage years, obviously you wouldn't. Maybe it's a stereotype, but you wouldn't expect a boxer to. I've got a degree in history to have wanted to be a barrister. I mean, just tell me a bit about your educational career and I guess, were you a good student? What made you want to go down that route?

Speaker 2: 9:50

Well, I've just come from a normal background, like myself. I wasn't poor, I wasn't rich, just a normal background. And I've got to give a lot of credit to my mum and dad because they taught me the value of hard work. And when you come from a normal background, I think you appreciate the value of hard work, because you're not getting nothing, you're not getting everything, you're just working for what you've got. And my dad and my mum always said try hard at school, you try hard at school, you try hard at everything you do in life. Some people don't do very well at school and that doesn't matter, you can. You can find your calling in something else. But I was always that kid who I remember.

Speaker 2: 10:20

I first went to my secondary school in Marshalls in year 7 and I'd done the CATS test, which is like an entry exam, and my dad went to a parents' evening for the results and I had like threes out of ten, fours out of ten, and then all my mates' parents were sitting there and they'd had eights out of ten, nines out of tens and that made me feel terrible. I wanted to be in the top echelon and then from that moment I think there was a switch in me and I just wanted to try out everything. I loved history, english, I loved writing essays. I became head boy of my school in year 11 and I just loved trying to be the best at it. I treated it like a competition and I did have an interest in a lot of the subjects I was doing. I think I got the highest grades at GCSE at my school at Marshalls Park, and then I got two A-stars and an A at A-level in history, geography and politics.

Speaker 2: 11:08

And I just took that competitive nature of it, because everyone loves to win. If you don't win, you don't win. You take it on the chin. But I used that mentality, like I had in boxing or rugby and any other sports I did at school, and I took it into the classroom and thought right, I want to try and do the best I can. And I think that's not just for school, that's for sport, that's for everyday life. Do the best you can. If you do great, you do great. But as long as you tried your best, it don't matter. Did you start uni? Did you go to uni? Yeah, I went to Exeter and studied history and then I started playing rugby when I was there and I finished it.

Speaker 1: 11:40

Oh, you did finish uni. Yeah, I finished.

Speaker 2: 11:42

So basically it was. I've done three years there and the last year was when COVID hit. I was actually in Las Vegas at the time when COVID hit, sparring Joe Joyce, and it was like the middle of the last year of uni and I was already debating whether to go to Vegas because I'd got to finish my dissertation and all that and that was going to be a distraction in itself. And then COVID happened and then my dad's business. We had to go and we had to change the whole outlook of it. We used to sell cheese and then we started selling meat on the van instead, because all the restaurants were shut. We had no one to supply, so we started doing home deliveries of cheese and meat to people's houses.

Speaker 2: 12:14

So I'd wake up at 8, 9 o'clock in the morning not too early, but we wouldn't finish till 2am doing our deliveries, and then I'd come home, do my dissertation till about 4am and I'd train in the garden till about 5am and then wake up and do it all again six days a week. And it was a tough time but I really liked it and really enjoyed it as well, because it felt like I was doing something that meant something not only for my degree and me training hard, trying to keep it a boxing but keeping mum and dad's business alive, and and it felt like we were doing something good. But I wouldn't want to do it again, definitely not. But COVID was a tough time for a lot of people and, yeah, I'm glad I finished that degree because I could have easily turned around in the midst of going to Vegas and doing all this stuff and my dad in lockdown and saying I'll just forget about the degree. I know I'm going to be a boxer after this, but I'm glad I stuck at it because I've got that now.

Speaker 1: 13:00

Did I read something? I may have misunderstood it then, because, as you know, you told me you finished your degree, but I thought I read that you went to Vegas to do that sparring at the expense of your degree, or there was something.

Speaker 2: 13:12

there I was on track for a first-class degree and with the time that I'd have to devote to sparring and the training camp because it wasn't just sparring, I was using it as a way to gain experience, learning off Joe Joyce, doing the whole training camp with him. And I went to my faculty, my faculty department, and they said listen, you're probably going to end up with a 2.1, but a 2.1 gives me the access to all the careers anyway, and I'm not too bothered about getting a first class or what. I think it's the fact that I went to university, I'd done a degree, and I think it's more impressive that I went to university, I'd done a degree, and I think it's more impressive that I managed to finish it whilst doing the sparring with Joe Joyce. I think that would have added another dimension to getting the degree. So, yeah, I sacrificed getting the first class, but there would have been no guarantee of me getting the first anyway, even if I stayed at home. So I'm glad I did it.

Speaker 1: 13:57

So February 2021, debut fight. I mean, obviously you've had your amateur fights as a kid, so it's not your first time stepping into the ring, not the first time in front of an audience, but talk to me about the preparation, the emotions and, I guess, if it actually did feel different to the amateur fights.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Well, it did feel very different, first and foremost because it was still in lockdown and everyone was in these COVID suits and you couldn't have contact with anyone. So you didn't have an audience, didn't have an audience, it was pitch black and there's just people in COVID suits I think Eddie was still in there, eddie Hearn and a couple of the operators, but no fans, nothing like that and it was very, very weird and eerie. You had to spend 24 hours in your room on your own in lockdown so you can get cleared that you passed your COVID test and it was just very strange and I think that added to the nerves as well, because there was an eeriness to it. But it stood me in good stead and every fight it's like anything the more you do it, the more you get used to it and I think, in a way, them two first fights I had when we were in lockdown it was a good experience because there was no distractions, there was no crowds, it was just me doing my job with my trainer, and I remember being really, really nervous on the day of the fight. Everyone's been building me up. I had good managers who'd built me up and everyone talking about how I've sparred this guy and I'd been getting shout-outs from Tyson Fury wishing me good luck and things like that.

Speaker 2: 15:18

And I thought what if I get in there and I just bomb, even if I can still win? But look terrible, I don't want to look terrible, I want to get the knockout. And I spoke to a boxer on the day, a former boxer called Richard Towers, who was a big heavyweight. I think he'd won or fought for a European title in his time and he said just enjoy it. Johnny, you dreamed about this moment, obviously, when you was a kid and now you're here. What's the point of being nervous about it? Just go out there and enjoy it, and whatever's meant to be is meant to be. And that really did set me down on the day of the fight and I got out there, won in the first round, and my first reaction after the fight was just a sense of relief. It wasn't happiness, it was just yes, I've shown people not a lot, but I've shown them that I can punch a bit and I'm here because I'll be excited to watch and I'm glad that I got that first one underway.

Speaker 1: 16:03

You talk about nerves. I mean let's also bring in the words scared, and I'm considering the two different things. I understand what you're saying about the nerves of letting people down showing yourself up, et cetera. Do you ever get scared, as in? You know, I might get hurt here. No, never, that's just completely gone.

Speaker 2: 16:21

It's just not in your brain, never in your brain. But there is a fear of not performing as you should and letting people down, as you said. That's the fear. But that fear is not a bad thing because it motivates you. You should wake up in the morning in your training camps when you're three weeks out, two weeks out, thinking well, I've got to perform well here, I've got to come and watch me fight, so that fear can drive you. But in terms of getting hurt, I don't think any contact sport. If you ask any rugby player I'm friends with a lot of the England rugby team and the Irish rugby team and they wouldn't tell you they're fearful of going into them collisions. And I don't think any boxer would tell you either, because if you are, you're in completely the wrong sport.

Speaker 1: 17:01

And is that also just because you've maybe done it so many times that, like I don't know, a Formula One driver's probably not scared about crashing because it's not beyond the realms of possibility of happening, but he's driven that corner so many times?

Speaker 2: 17:13

If you put me in a Formula One car I'll probably be nervous beyond belief. But I think there is an instinctive thing where you don't have fear for things. So I've seen young kids box for the first time and some of them, when they get hit, they're not deterred and they'll keep going. But others they flinch and they don't like it. There is a truth to the fact that some people it's in them, some people it's not. But you find your calling and you find what you're good at in life. One kid who's scared of boxing might not be scared of getting in a Formula 1 car and driving around the track, you know. But everyone's got their own calling and boxing was definitely mine.

Speaker 1: 17:47

I mean, you know, when you see people at the weigh-ins and I mean it's probably a bit more of a spectacle on some of the MMA type things as well where you know I'm going to kill you, I'm going to kill you I mean, do both people always really believe that they're the better than the other? Are you just telling yourself it because you need to? Or do you ever go to a fight thinking I'm confident, but he's not a bad lad, and all I need to do is put my foot one millimetre wrong, and it doesn't matter how good I am, I could still fuck this up.

Speaker 2: 18:12

I think every boxer sort of convinces himself that they're the best or they're going into a fight, especially if you want to win. You convince yourself that you're than the other person or you've at least got the tools to be able to do damage and win. But I think, for sometimes, when people are giving off that image of I'm going to knock you out, I'm going to do this, it's not a false sense of confidence, but it's just how they deal with the fact they've got to go into fight. For me, I don't feel like I need to talk or talk like that. For me.

Speaker 2: 18:40

My personality is listen, I'm going to go in there and give it 110%. I don't have to go and shout and holler about it. It's going to be a hard night's work for you because I'm not going to give up. So I don't have to convince myself or try and convince the other person that I'm going to be up for it, because I know I'm already up for it and I can just flip that switch and get in that mode. But the pressure of it you know.

Speaker 1: 19:05

You mentioned earlier about I think it was your trainer when you were talking about him being very good at simplifying things, and I'm a big fan of simplification in general. You know, just before we were recording this, I had a chef in earlier. He has a cookbook called Easy and you know he talks about making dishes in an easy way and I was explaining to him how, as a total layman, I sometimes want to cook something and I see two recipes for the same thing. One's got 27 ingredients, one's got 6 and you're still ultimately making the same thing. So I picked that and I think in life people love to overcomplicate things because it probably makes them feel better. If they've done something overcomplicated, take that and run with it in boxing. For me, well, it's not just in boxing.

Speaker 2: 19:47

But in life, as you said in general, like, think about social media, think about TikTok and the success of that 10 second videos, 15 second videos they get the most interaction and the most views. Especially in the modern world, people don't have time to sit there and divulge loads of information, people just want things instantly. And in boxing that can be a good thing and a bad thing. It can be a good thing because, like for me, social media has been great and for a lot of boxers because it gives people instant access to your career, whereas 20, 30 years ago you probably have to have 10, 15, 20 fights before anyone takes any notice. But on the flip side of that, the simplification and the instant nature of the modern world means that there's instant pressure on you as well, and for a lot of boxers they've got to realise that dealing with that pressure that's a new challenge in itself.

Speaker 2: 20:31

Whereas 20, 30 years ago, if you was Mike Tyson, probably people back in the day probably didn't know about him until his 10th, 15th fight. I know you probably get the hardcore boxing fans who knew about him, but until you got to that stage where it's on national television and things like that, people wouldn't know he was. But for us now, as boxers, um things, that was just instantly on you, straight away if you're on sky, frank warren, uh, matrim, like I am, things are, things are straight away. So that's a good thing and a bad thing, and that comes down to simplifying it, where people could just watch you on instagram straight away, all at this knockout boom, whereas before you'd have to tune in on the telly, wait till seven o'clock or ten o'clock at night. If you miss it, you can't record it, you know.

Speaker 1: 21:11

But for us it's good and bad things to this simplification of stuff, you know and how, and A tip for some amateur boxers out there how do people overcomplicate things in boxing? I mean, I guess you look at the old Rocky movies and Rocky's training's always the most basic, the most training. It's simple, he's on his own, he's just bashing out three or four or five simple key exercises. What do people do to overcomplicate things and trip themselves up?

Speaker 2: 21:39

I think one good thing about modern athleticism, modern sport, is how strength and conditioning has come into it and become a massive part of it. But I do see some instances where strength and conditioning can overtake from professional or from the sport that you're doing. I was a victim of that myself. I had a great he was a friend of mine and was a great trainer Ricky McFarlane. I used to train with him but it was my fault.

Speaker 2: 22:04

I was probably doing too much strength and conditioning and not enough boxing training. We spoke about that often and I haven't spoke to Ricky in years but he's just come into my head now. But we had a great relationship, a great bond, and I just loved training with him, but him with him. But we was probably going and he recognized this as well. He said it to me I'm probably going too far into the strength and conditioning side of it, but not sticking to just doing your bag work, doing your running, doing your sparring.

Speaker 2: 22:27

So for any young boxers out there, just go to your local boxing gym, just turn up, don't think too far ahead, just train three or four times a week after school. I remember my best years as an amateur. Well, I had one proper season as an amateur when I was 14 15, at horn church in elm park. All I did was run, hit the bag and spar and I was as fit as I'd ever been. And um, don't over complicate things, it's strength conditioning has a time and a place when you become a professional athlete. But boxing is not not a hard sport.

Speaker 1: 22:55

Listen to your trainer, get a good trainer and and run, hit the bag and spar if I've ever not got time to do much of a workout in the gym, I still want to do something, my kind of. Personally, my go-to is always 20 squats, 20 press-ups, definitely Repeated five times. I can do that in like 15 minutes and I've hit pretty much everything I need to hit Bodyweight exercises are a great thing.

Speaker 2: 23:18

You don't even need to go to a gym. Do your press-ups, do your chin-ups, do your squats. Squats are a great exercise because they incorporate, obviously, your legs and your lower body, but it's your core as well, the core part of your body is. When you say core, it doesn't mean your abs, it means your stability. That goes through your whole body and something like doing squats and stretching as well. That's a massive thing. Something you'll probably neglected when you're young because I'm still young now, but when you're 17, 18, 19, you neglect them sort of things. But why? I'm still relatively young now. I'm going to keep, uh, indulging in that and keep on using that because that adds as longevity to your career as well. And, as you said, doing body weight exercises like that for 20 30 minutes a day. That's going to stand people in good stead if they've got busy lives, you know.

Speaker 1: 23:59

And in the heavyweight class, what's the weight, the weight limits.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Yeah, the tolerance, so you can be. It's 200 pounds, I believe. So it's 91 kilos is the bottom end. So anything over that, so you could be 92 kilos and you could fight someone 120 kilos and what's super heavyweight?

Speaker 1: 24:17

Is that even more that was in amateur boxing? Oh, and what's super heavyweight? Is that even more that was in amateur boxing? Oh, so heavyweight is so heavyweight is super heavyweight in professional boxing OK so that was going to lead me into my next question that you know, when you've got someone who's fucking, you know, 250 pounds against someone who's 200 pounds, or someone who's seven foot against someone who's six foot, I mean, how do you ever compete with them? Because it doesn't matter how talented you are, you just seem so mismatched.

Speaker 2: 24:46

It is in a way, but the good thing about being a heavyweight is you're always going to be at the full strength and your full capability. So if you're good enough like, think about Mike Tyson. He wasn't much over 200 pounds, but he was at the peak of his physical performance. He hadn't had to boil down weight. He's at what weight he's comfortable at, so he can go and then knock out these massive guys that you've seen him knock out and things like that. I think about the UFC, though, a lot, and they have a weight limit on the heavyweights. I think I don't know what the weight limit is. It might be 250 pounds, but I think that might be a quality thing. So people do come in in shape, because there is a danger, when there's no limit, that you've got these big lumps who can weigh 300 pounds and they're not conditioned.

Speaker 1: 25:22

I've seen some of the Tyson Fury fights.

Speaker 2: 25:26

When you look at him and it's just like he's here, the guy's there, and the guy can't even land a punch on him he's just like literally walking him around the ring like a giant sometimes it can appear like a mismatch, but then I look at other fighters like Andy Ruiz or Mike Tyson, who are Mike Tyson 5'10".

Speaker 1: 25:43

I was going to say he's not tall, is he no?

Speaker 2: 25:44

and he was knocking out everyone he'd faced at one point. So that's why we watch heavyweight boxing as well because of the variations and the idea that anything can happen as well. Sometimes, like any sport, it can be boring, there can be bad fights, but other times there can be devastating knockouts as well.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Well, let's talk through some of your fights. You've had 11 now. Yeah, ten knockouts, ten knockouts, and I mean any particularly great memories, any standouts, any ones where you thought you were on the back foot.

Speaker 2: 26:14

There's two fights where I think I've learnt the most. There was my fifth fight, where I was warming up on the pads and I'd had a hand injury for most of the camp and it was actually niggling on me from the fight before as well. And this was my fight at Ali Pali, where I sold a load of tickets about 2,500, 3,000 tickets and I was fighting a Spanish heavyweight champion and I was warming up on the pads in the changing room and I felt a crunch go down my hand. And it turns out I knew something was wrong, but I was ten minutes from going out and there's not much you can say to your trainers. You can't turn around and say I've hurt my hand, I can't go out there and fight, you've just got to get on with it. And for the first round it was OK and I caught him with the right hand. I think it was at the end of that round or the second round and I felt the crunch go down again. That had been splintering. It was just a bit weak anyway. It was weak anyway but it was okay. I could get through it. But the way I crunched it in that fight he showed me the crack, how it had split already. But then that crack had obviously formed a new one and it splintered down my hand.

Speaker 2: 27:09

I remember just coming through that fight thinking this is difficult. I got cut in the first minute as well of the first round. That was a big occasion and not deflated afterwards. But you're like, oh, that was just a points victory.

Speaker 2: 27:27

But then, after the disappointment of not getting a knockout the next day you realise hang on, I'm getting a lot of respect from people in the boxing world because I showed a little bit more to my game that I can hang around and if the job isn't going the way I want it to and things are going wrong, I can still pull out the win. So that was good for me. And the second fight that sticks out in my memory is the second from last one, my Southern Area title fight. Because I didn't have a long, extensive amateur background like a lot of other boxers do and a lot of people in the boxing community or you get people on the internet as well saying he won't even win an area title, he's not even area title level. So to get that bit of legitimacy and win that fight in the seventh round on the Anthony Joshua undercard as well, that was great for me as well, and now I'm in a great position to keep moving forward.

Speaker 1: 28:11

How do you react to social media hate and that kind of thing insofar as does it fuel you on, or do you just ignore?

Speaker 2: 28:22

it. I don't really get any feeling from it. If I'm being honest, um, I'm just grateful that I'm in a position where I can box for my living and and do this as a job. And, um, if you're going to go through, you're going to go through professional sport, where people watch you on telly. People are going to have opinions that they're not going to like you or they are going to like you.

Speaker 2: 28:38

Luckily for me, I've got a lot of supporters who are very genuine and people who see it for what I am and they're honest, because I'm always trying to be honest about my career and I never blow myself up or say that I'm better than what I am. I've got an opportunity here and I want to try and go as far as I can, and there will always be people who are trying to put you down, but that's the nature of life. It's not just for a professional sportsman, but any aspect of life. You've got people wishing that you're going to get beat. So it does, in a way, fuel me because sometimes before a fight, I want to be like, yeah, I want to prove them people wrong and I want to win, but ultimately it's for myself and for my family.

Speaker 1: 29:14

I do it, I fight because I want to give them a better life of life Are all the big earners, big followed people, or I mean, I don't know anything enough about the sports world to be able to think of an example person, but do you get any, let's say, champions, who are a champion because they've won the championship, but no one really gives a shit about them and they're not particularly followed.

Speaker 2: 29:35

Well, you've got to have a commercial value right to be big in boxing or to get people to tune in to watch. You can get that through just being unbelievably good. Think about someone like Canelo Alvarez, who's been at the top of the middleweight division for some years. Whether you think he's the best now or not is another question, but he's extremely good and he's got on because he's fantastic at his sport. But then other boxers it's because they can. First of all you've got to be amazing to get to the top of the sport. You've got to be a great boxer, but the more value you get and you can increase that value by being able to resonate with people, having a following, having people interested in your life. So if boxing number one comes first being a good boxer, but then you've got to have the other facets to your bow to become a more of a commercial, commercially viable for people and want people to come and tune in and watch.

Speaker 2: 30:24

They want to tune into personalities. People come to boxing events or people go to shows in general, go to UFC events, because they want to be entertained. Think about the guys that give people what they want. That's that's what they want, whether that's being a trash talker, whether that's being someone people can connect with. You've got to give something to people to come and tune in and be invested in. I think boxing and combat sports are different to team sports in a way. Because you're supporting a person, you're not supporting a team. If you're supporting Liverpool Football Club, who are you truly supporting? You're not supporting an individual player. You might like an individual player, but when you're supporting someone because they're a fighter, you're invested in that person.

Speaker 1: 31:00

It's more emotional. It's emotional.

Speaker 2: 31:02

It's an emotional connection and that's why I think boxing and combat sports can resonate a lot more with people in general than football clubs do or footballers, you know, or any sport like that rugby players, and I think that's something special about combat sports.

Speaker 1: 31:18

We've talked a little bit about some of your trainers and some of the people around you, but talk me through your training regime or your general days and lifestyles, both in camp and out of camp.

Speaker 2: 31:30

I've recently got my own place literally around the corner from my mum and dad, so that's been great as well, your own gym, my own house and that's actually beneficial for my training as well, because my house is great and we've got a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 31:41

I've got three siblings, got four dogs in that house, my mum and dad, two cats it's a bit of a madhouse. It's a big family home and it's great and I always love it. But sometimes I've been in training camp and I've been like people walking up the stairs late at night and them little 1% where you want to get your sleep. Right now I can do that and I've got my kitchens all done and little things like that. I'm a bit OCD. I can have all my food prepared properly now and stuff and my training regime.

Speaker 2: 32:08

On a day-to-day basis I probably, if you're in the depth of camp and you're six weeks out from a fight, you'll probably train twice a day from Monday to Friday. Monday morning the morning sessions are boxing or strength and conditioning and then the evenings will be a run or a swim or something like that and you'll spar two or three times a week and then Saturday will be a big run day like a track day or a long-distance run at Leon C, something like that. Track days are the worst days for me. They're tough. You don't like running. I don't mind short-distance running or long-distance, but the middle-, middle distant ones are ones that, as a bigger man, are quite tough for me. The 800 meters and uh, I've definitely got better at them and I like doing them because mentally I've got to go through the pain barrier a couple of times, but they're ones that really build you and then sunday get a nice day off.

Speaker 2: 32:51

But it always fluctuates me and my trainer, mark, and sunny, my strength conditioner, we're very much that. Yeah, we have a plan. We adapt as well. Some days you might have a really hard session. If I have a really hard spar on Wednesday, I might not do the session on the Wednesday evening. I might have a full day off on the Thursday. Every now and then Mark will say right, john, you need a day off now and sometimes that day's rest. I say that to any young boxers out there. Resting is just as important as the hard training, because that's where the adaptations take place, that's where your body gets stronger, that's where you replenish.

Speaker 1: 33:23

What time do you go to?

Speaker 2: 33:23

bed. How long do you sleep for? I sleep, for I try and get nine hours sleep because you need to. The rest is more important than the training. If you're putting the work in, you can't just keep putting the work in and not get adequate sleep, because that's where the body regenerates.

Speaker 2: 33:36

I spoke to a guy actually once I was on the plane back from Hungary. I was in Budapest for my dad's 50th birthday and I met a guy on there who actually turned out to be a Navy SEAL and he came and met me once around Christmas time, come down to where I live, and he gave me a load of breathing exercises as well and they've really helped me as well, because I suffer from a bit of a blocked up nose from the sparring and my septum's a bit damaged. But little things like that, little 1%, 2% as you move through the levels, like you said about when you're sleeping in your room, if you've got a telly in your room, there's a little red dot, an infrared dot, just mask over that. You said about a grounding sheet, which is so when you go to, as you said, when we're adjusting to jet lag, just walk on the grass and that's grounding. But he's got a grounding sheet and you plug it into the side of your bed, of your plug socket and it connects you to the electric current that's coming through the ground and that helps you recover. The Argentinian rugby team have done it for years. And little things like that, like the little gadgets which I've not really been into before but just learning off other people as I've gone through my boxing career little 1%s and 2%s, they all add up. So breathing, quality sleep, having the correct food, having a routine that you can stick to All them little things add up.

Speaker 2: 34:48

How are you with your nutrition? Very good, very good. If you see me on Instagram and social media, you know I love a Chinese, like my dad, big John. But that's social media. You know People don't see the hard graft that goes in week in, week out when you're preparing for a fight. I've got a great strength and conditioning coach now called Sonny Cannon. He used to do the nutrition for Tottenham Hotspur and he is a chef himself, a trained chef, and he gives me great advice. There's little hacks that you can do.

Speaker 2: 35:15

It's always about trying to eat whole foods, you know, eating stuff that grows out of the ground or good quality meat, and there is the element of being a heavyweight you have to make sure you get enough calories in. It's about time constraints as well, and there are times, if I've had a hard sparring session one day, I can burn 1,500 calories in one session and I've got to get calories straight back in. So it's about making sensible choices about how you get them calories in. And that might be you go and get a stone baked pizza from over the road, not a Domino's pizza or a Pizza Hut. But he often tells me about Tottenham Hotspur. After matches they have a pizza and a milkshake straight away, just to get them calories back in, because there's 1500 calories there. I've then got to get my calories, my maintenance calories, just to make sure I don't lose weight for the rest of the day, you know.

Speaker 1: 35:57

So I was about to say why do they need to get the calories back in? And that's so they can maintain, so they can keep muscle.

Speaker 2: 36:03

Yeah, mate, keep your muscle For me as a boxer, you don't want to be eating into your body weight.

Speaker 1: 36:10

What weight do you fight at?

Speaker 2: 36:11

I fight at about 17 or 17 and a half stone, so about 110 kilos. And what are you walking around at? I walk around. If I've just come back into camp, like I am now, I don't really fluctuate too much. I put on about one or two kilos, really Does it all. But the composition of your body can change a little bit so the muscle might go down a bit and the fat might go up a bit, and that's what you don't want.

Speaker 2: 36:35

Do you like saunas and ice baths? They can be a bit of a fad sometimes. These people jumping in ice baths, they've definitely got their place. I do cryotherapy chambers as well at a place called Be Superhuman where I live. But the sauna I think there's so many studies done on saunas and how beneficial they are. The benefit of the cold plunge where you actually jump in is a feel-good factor in the endorphins they can give you the same high as cocaine. It's been proven. So I think give you the same high as as as cocaine it's been. It's been proven. So, um, I think that's beneficial for your feel-good factor. But the actual recovery and the the studies done on recovery lend themselves more to to saunas how do you train or work on your mindset?

Speaker 1: 37:11

and I actually meant to ask you earlier as well uh, are you still? Are you still a learner? You know, do you still? Because I mean, I would imagine that after going through your degree and loving history and liking writing essays, you still read books. You still learn things, take courses. I enjoy reading books.

Speaker 2: 37:27

I like reading books. It's more just like it's not so much taking courses, but I've just gotten a fascination with history and I love watching old war films and things like that. I think it stems from my days with my dad and my grandad watching old cowboy films and World War II films and it's more like watching little documentaries that come up on YouTube and I love learning about Napoleon and Alexander the Great and people like that and I've got a fascination with it and I always will be a learner in that sense and I try and take that attitude into what I do as well, Because the moment you shut yourself off from learning anything, especially in boxing, you go backwards. You've got to keep adapting and I try and take that into boxing.

Speaker 1: 38:08

Let's talk about money. I mean, did you, you say your goal's been to provide for your family? I mean, did you, you say your goal's been to provide for your family? I mean, when you first got into it, did you think that boxing would be able to make you provide financially? Were you still doing it for love and fun at that point?

Speaker 2: 38:22

I was doing it for love and fun, really and truly. I remember doing it all through university just doing it on the side of my rugby, travelling backwards and forwards from Exeter. I'd play rugby on Wednesday and I'd go and spar on Friday up the Repton in Bethnal Green. I was doing it because I loved it and, as I said, off camera, I think when you do something because you love it, you can end up making a career out of it and the money will follow. When I turned pro, I was earning not much money at all.

Speaker 2: 38:47

I was going to say can you remember what my first purse and that's rightly so. I had no back, no-one knew what I was capable of, no-one knew of the following, and that's pretty good. There's a lot of boxers out there who don't earn nowhere near as much as that for their first purse, believe it or not, and there are actually some boxers who I'm very grateful because they have to pay the house, they have to pay for the opponent, especially on a small hall circuit. So I was in a privileged position.

Speaker 1: 39:14

Why are they doing that? Because they need the experience, they need the practice, because they've got no other choice and they want to make it. That's what I mean. They've got no choice because no one will pay them, but they need the prize.

Speaker 2: 39:22

I was very lucky in a sense.

Speaker 2: 39:23

I had an SJM Boxing my management who are still my managers with Matt Trim and Eddie Hearn and they saw how many tickets I sold at amateur boxing club events in Exeter.

Speaker 2: 39:35

I brought 500 people down to Exeter from Essex and they saw that I've had a few knockouts and I'm a heavyweight and there was a chance there and they saw the potential and luckily they saw the potential. But there's a lot of boxers out there who are very good but they don't get the recognition they deserve or they don't have the following and a lot of boxers struggle to understand that it's about the following it's about the charisma and the appeal that you've got for people as well. And there's great boxers out there who fight in small hall shows and they're not earning any money. So that £4,000 is minuscule to what I'm earning now, but I'm very, very grateful for that as a first step and coming from being a uni student where I had no money whatsoever step, and coming from being a uni student where I had no money whatsoever, getting four thousand pound paid to, you felt like I was a millionaire you know when you first get it and what are the kind of economics and earning opportunities of boxing?

Speaker 1: 40:20

obviously we know you get your purse, uh, you can get a percentage of ticket sales, uh, and I want to talk about that a bit. Uh, you've got your sponsorships and things. I mean who do you go out working on your own sponsorship deals? Have you got a management team that does that?

Speaker 2: 40:32

Yeah, so there's so many different ways that boxers can earn money. In a sense, you can just be a ticket seller first and foremost, not get a purse. Some people on small shows just get a percentage of their tickets if they sell an asset. But yeah, you've got sponsorship deals that people might approach you for. I can personally get them myself if people approach me. I've got a management team. They can look for you as well. My management have been very good. They've got me a good deal with Everlast and Sports Direct and, yeah, ticket sales, as I said, and then your Fight Perth. So they're the main avenues and there's other things you can do appearances at places but that's where it sort of branches off from boxing and then it becomes more about you as a commercial person.

Speaker 2: 41:14

And I don't like. I've always tried to be myself. You know, and I think that's the key thing when you're trying to make it, in that, make the money. In that sense it's not about trying to make money. Just be yourself and then you can make a living out of it. You know, and that's what I've always tried to instil, my dad's tried to instil in me and my family be yourself, be a genuine person, and then people might want to tune in and resonate with you and get involved. You know.

Speaker 1: 41:37

And when you say be yourself, does that mean there's certain avenues that you don't go down, because, even though you may get paid, it's not your thing.

Speaker 2: 41:45

Yeah there's certain things like that. It's more about the people that you want to get involved with as well. You want to be involved with people that you want to get involved with as well. You want to be involved with people that are on the same page as you. Um, you get offered a lot of different things and different different with different companies but you've got to choose people and work with people that you can connect with.

Speaker 2: 42:01

Think, I think, about my sponsors, a lot of my local companies. I've got pubs, I've got the robin's pie mash shop. I've got recruitment companies for people that I know from my local area, and a lot of them don't want a lot out of me. They just want to be part of the journey and they're the best people to have on your team because they're invested and they want to just come to the fights they want to support, and that's great. It's great to have the bigger names as well, because that's the end goal, isn't it? You want to earn a living out of. Boxing often means a lot more to me, in a sense, because you've got a proper team there, not just people who are in it for a business relationship. It's people that want to build with you, and I think that's a good thing about boxing, where you can build that personal connection when we talk about team, how, how did the team get paid?

Speaker 1: 42:47

like you talk about your trainers and your nutrition coaches and stuff, are these people that effectively are on your payroll in some way that you've got to pay this person, whether it's a pound here or a percentage of a purse? How does all that work?

Speaker 2: 42:59

That's the difficulty with boxing right so you could train for a fight, and sometimes this happens quite often fights don't come off and then you've got to front up all the costs for your training camp, for the sparring partners, for the physio sessions, for the strength and conditioning sessions, and then your trainer normally has a cut. That takes a cut of your, of your fight person. Your manager takes a cut your fight person. In some instances, when you get to big, big fights, there might be instances where the promoter takes a cut or they're built, they're built into it, but if you don't fight you don't get paid.

Speaker 2: 43:28

So, for instance, in my last fight um, I was sparring in Vegas I think it was the first or second week of sparring and I got cut on my nose. I was sparring Michael Hunto, who's fought some of the top names out there Povetkin, huey, fury and Martin Bercouli. He beat and he's quite an avoided heavyweight, very awkward guy, and the last round of the spar cut my nose across my face and I was really worried because I was thinking all these people paid their hard-earned money for one to come out to watch me and they've paid thousands of pounds to watch. But also from a livelihood point of view. I'm not going to get paid if I don't get through this fight, so I had to get it stitched up. I couldn't tell anyone and I got it done. I was okay in the end. But it is a stress and a lot of boxers experience that if they don't fight they don't get paid.

Speaker 1: 44:09

If the fight doesn't happen for you, the people you've sold tickets to, they still have to pay for the tickets.

Speaker 2: 44:15

They've paid for their flights, their hotels, they'll get a refund on the tickets. Oh, they do, don't they? No, actually, I don't think so, because I'm not a headline event, right? If I was the headline of the show, they might postpone the show and move it on, but I'm either chief support or I'm second or third up from the bill. And the problem with where I was in this one, las Vegas, people paid for their flights, people paid for their hotels thousands of pounds and they've had to arrange all of that, and that was weighing on my mind. So I was very, very grateful when the doctors over there stitched me up and got me ready to go.

Speaker 1: 44:46

You'd have had to have had a scrap in the car park to keep them happy, wouldn't you?

Speaker 2: 44:48

That's it, we would have had to find it. Me and Big John could have had a scrap in the car park?

Speaker 1: 44:53

What do you do with your money? How do you?

Speaker 2: 44:55

invest. I put it in a house. It's all in my house and it's good to. I'm not an extravagant spender. If I'm being honest, I'm not flashy with my money. Yes, we like to go on holiday. I take my mum and dad away after my fights a couple of times, go down to Cornwall. I love going down to Cornwall. Go away. My brother's been to Mexico a couple of times. Yeah, I don't spend in an extravagant manner, you know, and I know some people do, and I probably will do at some points, like I do, as I said, on my holidays and stuff. But other than that, I'm trying to invest my money and I'm trying to build it up rather than just waste it. But you have to enjoy yourself at the same time as well, and my dad has to remind me sometimes of that.

Speaker 1: 45:37

Do you have an end-game financial goal, whether that's X amount of money and therefore, when you've done so many fights, you'll walk away? How do you set your goals for yourself?

Speaker 2: 45:49

I think it's more of the idea of financial freedom is the thing. It's not about being rich and having millions and millions of pounds, but it's about saying, all right, having that freedom where you can go. I'm going to go away for a couple of weeks now and I'm not going to have to worry about it. I think, when you think about it, it's about what you can do for your family as well. And my mum and dad my mum she works for me now, but she used to work as a teaching assistant in the school and a dinner lady. Now she does like part-time work for me probably. She probably says a bit more than part time. She does all my washing, does all that stuff, does all my t-shirts and merchandise and does all the orders for them. But eventually I think the end goal is to be able to say to your mum and dad right, you don't have to work anymore, here's a little house or here's a bit of money and we can relax. And I think it's that freedom that you not only give to yourself but you want to give to the immediate people around you, and then you can enjoy life a little bit. And it's got better in the last couple of years, especially after COVID.

Speaker 2: 46:40

But to achieve that level of freedom you need to earn a little bit more. You know it's quite hard to do that. You think you've got there and then you haven't. You've just got to to keep going and keep going. Have you got a missus? No, and that might be a good reason because they can drain you of a bit of your money. My brother's got a girlfriend recently. She lives in Scotland. He met her in Megaluth at a kebab shop. She's a really nice girl. He's younger than me but he's up there every other week and he's draining his resources pretty fast.

Speaker 1: 47:10

Have you ever had a serious girlfriend during training time, boxing time? Not really, if.

Speaker 2: 47:15

I'm being honest, I've dated girls for months at a time, but I think I just think where I am in my career. It does come down to the fact that that always has to come first at the minute and I have to find a woman who's going to be receptive of that, and it's quite hard, especially in the modern world. People have got their own jobs now. It's not like when our parents met my parents met like 30 years ago or whatever where it was more traditional, like the man had a job, the woman probably didn't have a job, and then they built together and the housewife and the man went out to work. Now women earn just as much as men and they do their thing and the men do their thing and, right or wrong, it's a different world we live in now and I think it's hard for people to understand that.

Speaker 2: 48:01

I've got to put that first and I don't know, I'm still quite a traditional person. In a sense I like the idea of having a lady who does her own thing and has her own job. But eventually I think it would be with my career. They'd have to come around and support my career in some sort of way and get involved and work in that sense, but it's finding someone who wants to do that, and to be able to do that, a lady's really got to be uh, be ready to sacrifice, hasn't she?

Speaker 1: 48:26

well, I think. I think whatever support means, you know whether that means giving you the space to do your own thing or whether it means holding your hand throughout the journey and doing your washing for you.

Speaker 2: 48:35

My mum would probably moan at me for doing that. If anyone else done my washing apart from my mum, I think she'd get very, very angry. So she can keep doing that.

Speaker 1: 48:42

Yeah, I think whatever that support means, whether it's sport, whether it's business, I think if you want to be at the top of your game in anything, if you want real success, you know you have to have either a supportive person or no person, otherwise it's just a total fucking disruption.

Speaker 2: 48:56

It is a distraction and, uh, I wouldn't want to. It wouldn't be fair on either person that way, but it's something I've had to. You have to sort of come to terms with, like you're not. It's not right for me right now to uh, unless the right person comes along. But in a minute I've got to be fully focused on that and if it distracts me from that then it's not going to work. I remember once, a couple of years ago, I had a training one morning and the girl wanted me to stay around there, but I just couldn't do it. To them it wouldn't seem like a big deal. Why is he not staying? What's the problem? But that would mean I'd have to get to training two hours later. I've got to sort my bag out for the morning. It sounds obsessive, but I need to be at home. I need to have everything ready to go for the morning.

Speaker 1: 49:39

But obsession is the difference between being good and being great, Exactly or being someone who wouldn't have got to where they are now.

Speaker 2: 49:48

That's not even about being good or great. I think it's just about being in the position I am. If I wasn't like that, I'm not saying I'm great now, but I wouldn't be in the position I am, to have the potential to go further. So being obsessed over them little things, as you said that makes all the difference.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Any particular opponents you're looking forward to fighting in the future? What's the game plan going?

Speaker 2: 50:10

forward. I've never been one to be in that position to feel like I've got to fight this person to get on. I think I'm in a privileged position where I've got support. I'm an exciting fighter to watch, whoever I fight. There's plenty of names out there. They're going to be exciting fights to watch. You know, it's more for me about chasing titles and chasing the ability to the idea of having accolades and if I can finish my career being a British champion. A lot of boxers want to go further than that, but I'm quite realistic and I look at one goal at a time. Being an English champion, then being a British champion I think that would be unbelievable. I think about the guys who have held them belts before Lennox Lewis, anthony Joshua, henry Cooper some great fighters all through the ages. To be among their names would be something I could never have dreamed of when I was at university.

Speaker 1: 50:55

I mean, in a career like boxing, how long do you expect it to go on for? You know? I mean, are you very much at the beginning of your career?

Speaker 2: 51:03

I'm coming out of that embryonic, that beginning stage, that baby stage. You know, now I'm 25, so in heavyweight terms you still probably are a baby. Think about the guys now they're mid-30s and they're at the peak of their career. So I've still got 10 years in this game until I get to my peak, if it works out like that. But do you want to be boxing that long? I don't know. I'll have to see again in 5 years time, you know, when I'm 30, towards some bigger titles.

Speaker 1: 51:31

What is it about boxing? That, I guess means that you kind of are getting better with age, if you like, up until say 30, 30 plus, because if you take 30 plus in another sport, like a football or something, I mean you're completely finished, or even in different weight classes.

Speaker 2: 51:46

So if you're lightweight or a featherweight, 30 is pretty old, you know. I think it's just the heavyweight game is slightly different to the rest of it. It's a bit slower. Just the rhythm of it is slightly different. And I think about heavyweights it's more to do with strength. You reach peak strength a bit later in life, you know, and I just think, where it's a little bit slower than featherweights and lightweights you've got a little bit more time. I think about George Foreman, who came back after winning the world title. He came back and won it again when he was mid-40s. So it can be done. It's just slightly different rules for heavyweight boxing and it seems throughout history heavyweights who are 30 to 35, that's when they've reached their peak.

Speaker 1: 52:27

What's your thoughts on the current state of the heavyweight?

Speaker 2: 52:29

division. It's great at the minute. I think it's wide open. I'm looking very much so forward to Fury Usyk seeing who's the king of the hill. Joshua's made of resurgence, which is always great for British boxing because I remember when he first came on the scene how he galvanised a lot of the general public and the casual fans as well. So when Joshua's doing well, it's good for the whole of British boxing and world boxing. But I think that fight that we want to see now. We wanted to see it a couple of years ago but now it's even hotter Fury versus Joshua, and I hope we can see that After Fury's. Fury's got to fight Usyk twice now because he's in contract to fight him twice. So we might not see it for another year or so but before they both retire I'd love to see Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua.

Speaker 1: 53:13

When they have to fight someone twice. How does that work? Is it for the same belt each time? So when they fight.

Speaker 2: 53:20

In these big fights for world titles, there's often contracts that are put in place before, so they'll have a rematch clause. So if one loses, they can come back and rematch, like when Joshua fought Usyk twice, there was a rematch clause in that, for both fighters match. Like when Joshua fought Usyk twice, there was a rematch causing that for both fighters or it might have just been for Joshua if he loses the belts, he's got a chance to win them back, you know. So that's quite a mountain to climb in itself. You know, if you beat someone, you've got to beat them again. But yeah, that's why they do it, for financial security, and they both know that they're going to get two paydays rather than one as well.

Speaker 1: 53:49

Francis Ngannou and Joshua fight recently, in March the 8th, so a couple of weeks ago from when we're recording. This now ended in a decisive victory for Joshua. What's your thoughts on the fight?

Speaker 2: 54:02

It's what is to be expected really If a UFC champion comes into boxing. That's what a lot of the boxing public expected to happen, but it didn't happen. A few months ago when Fury fought Ngannou, a lot of people were picking Ngannou to be beat in one or two rounds and he actually only lost narrowly on points to Fury and a lot of people thought Ngannou won. I personally thought Fury won by a couple of rounds, but he didn't have the best performance. So what that has done for the heavyweight division is galvanised a bit of interest in Fury versus Joshua again now, because that contrast between the two performances shows that the gap might have narrowed between Fury and Joshua, but I'm interested, no matter what, to see them two fight.

Speaker 1: 54:45

I know you said you reckon you could take him out in one round. I reckon I've got a good chance against Zingano.

Speaker 2: 54:49

yeah, I've got the power to stop him 100%.

Speaker 1: 54:51

How do you get a fight like that?

Speaker 2: 54:53

You've got to build up your profile, you've got to get a lot more fights under your belt and you've got to have. I'm not in a position really, where I wasn't saying that in a way to call him out, because I'm respectful of the position I'm in. I've not achieved what Nganou's achieved in the UFC realm. I'm always honest. I think I've got a good chance against Ngana and, uh, I think the way that Joshua dealt with him shows that he's not a boxer. If I went into the UFC cage it'd be a different story, but he's not a boxer and I am and I can punch as hard as most people out there and if I land on his chin, he'll probably go down as well, just as like if Ngana landed on my chin, there's a good, good chance it goes down. But yeah, I'll always be honest and I'll always back myself, just before we start recording.

Speaker 1: 55:37

We were just talking about the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight. I mean, there's a lot of these crossover fights now and whilst some people will say, well, it's not professional boxing, I mean these guys are still training hard and putting themselves in uncomfortable positions. What's your thoughts on that stuff? My thoughts is you?

Speaker 2: 55:57

separate the YouTuber entertainment side of it and that's entertainment. And then you've got conventional boxing. It doesn't mean that professional boxers can't learn from the way that these guys market themselves and put themselves out there and show their personalities, and fair play to them. They're training, as we said, off camera. They're training as hard as anyone. You see KSI training, Jake Paul training, Mike Tyson training nearly 60 years old fair play to them. And they're earning great money. And, yes, sometimes I look at some of the other guys on the undercard and I cringe and I'm not a fan of it. But who am I to knock someone trying to earn a bit of money? If they're trying to earn money, fair play to them.

Speaker 1: 56:33

I mean, I guess the takeaway, so we can look at any situation and learn from it rather than hate on it is yes, someone may be the better boxer, but these guys have the better brand. Exactly, and it shows the importance of skill is one thing, but ultimately, brand and distribution is everything.

Speaker 2: 56:52

And I don't like talking about it in a business sense like that, but it is true, like they know how to work the crowd. You know, from my perspective, I'm not trying to manipulate or work the crowd, I'm just trying to be my authentic self and I think if a lot more boxers put their personality out there a little bit more, people would be a little bit more interested. You know, and these guys definitely know how to put on a show and we can learn something from it. And, as you said, too many people in the world try and hate on other people, especially in the world of social media. If there's people over there making money and they're feeding their families and making a better life for themselves, who am I to judge?

Speaker 1: 57:28

Well, listen, it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, buddy. Thanks. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, buddy. Thanks, man, I think for someone who's 25, there's been so many. You've got so many stories, so many different facets to your journey and your career and so much wisdom to give off. So, like I say, it's been a real pleasure. I appreciate it. Thank you, I definitely want to come and see you in a fight sometime, definitely Maybe a Vegas one.

Speaker 2: 57:50

Come along. Definitely we should be fighting in Vegas again soon.

Speaker 1: 57:52

That would be great. We'll talk, we'll keep in touch about that. But just before you go, just kind of one piece of standout advice for amateur boxers out there, budding sports people what's the one thing they should know For?

Speaker 2: 58:03

budding sports people out there, whatever sport that is, just enjoy yourself. If you enjoy what you do, then that's all that matters. Everything else will follow after that, and it's not just about sports, it's about whatever you do. If you do something that you're passionate about and you have fun doing it, then the energy that you give off that will make you successful anyway. So just keep following what you dream of doing Perfect, thanks, a lot.

Speaker 1: 58:25

Thank you Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox. I hope you've enjoyed listening to this week's episode, but please remember to subscribe or to follow and please, please, leave a review. If you can leave a review, that's how we move up the algorithm, that's how we get to the top of the charts and that's how I can keep bringing you bigger and better guests that you'll love each week. Have you got any suggestions for guests? Have you got any burning questions you want to ask? Well, slide into my DMs on social at Stripping Off with Matt Hay.