Eating Healthy Is Too Expensive? That's Bollocks! with Chris Baber

This week, I'm metaphorically stripping off Chris Baber's chef whites and diving deep to uncover the secret ingredient to his success. Chris Baber, a celebrated chef, BBC Good Food contributor, and best-selling author, joins us to share his journey from humble beginnings to culinary fame.

We chat about the entrepreneurial spirit that sparked his passion for cooking and how it led him to thrive in the intense world of Michelin Star restaurants, rubbing shoulders with top-tier chefs like Gordon Ramsay. Chris opens up about the challenges of staying creative in an industry where everything has essentially been "done to death."

We also delve into the business side of things—how many top chefs master both the kitchen and the boardroom. Chris shares his insights on building a strong social media following and the networking savvy that landed him a coveted gig with Marks and Spencer's. Plus, he talks about his book, "Easy," and the importance of simplicity in achieving business success. 

0:00 - Intro
1:41 - Back to the Beginning
4:38 - What do you think it was that gave you that Entrepreneurial Spirit and want to be a Cook?
7:14 - Life in a Michelin Star Restaurant
10:29 - Staying Creative in a 'Done to Death' Industry?
13:09 - How Many Great Chefs are also Great in Business?
15:37 - How did you Build Your Social Following?
16:51 - Getting the Marks and Spencer's Gig through Networking - Business Lessons
25:28 - Business Facet to Success, Simplicity - Chris Baber's Book Easy
28:48 - Do you Enjoy the TV Experience?
29:50 - What is the Passion about Seasonal Produce and Local Ingredients?
31:05 - Nutrition and Healthy Eating Made Easy For All
39:30 - Mental Health Awareness
41:47 - The Future and Expansion
45:01 - Quickfire Questions - Favourite Dish? One Famous Chef to Share the Kitchen with? Disaster Dish!
48:36 - Conclusion

#goodfood #bbcgoodfood #celebritychef #easyreciepes #healthyreciepes #healthyeating #chrisbaber #marksandspencers #foodie #foodblogger #homecook #foodporn #cheflife #homecooking #instagood #delicious #gourmet

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Who Is Matt Haycox? - Click for BADASS Trailer

As an entrepreneur, investor, funding expert and mentor who has been building and growing businesses for both myself and my clients for more than 20 years, my fundamental principles are suitable for all industries and businesses of all stages and size.

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My goal is to help YOU achieve YOUR financial success! I know how to spot and nurture great business opportunities and as someone who has ‘been there and got the t-shirt’ many times, overall strategies and advice are honest, tangible and grounded in reality.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

The majority of people that are malnourished now are actually clinically obese.

Speaker 2: 0:04

One of the excuses given by people to eat unhealthy is that eating healthy at home is too expensive and it's too complicated. Tell me why that's bollocks.

Speaker 1: 0:12

Stop buying the expensive shitty snacks. I don't think you should have guilty pleasures.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I can't be arsed going around the supermarket to find three grams of buffalo's testicle juice. You don't even understand what you're eating. It should be something that's taught.

Speaker 1: 0:24

When you're using a great product, you don't need all the thrills that go with it.

Speaker 2: 0:27

How the fuck do you keep coming up with creative ideas in an industry that is done?

Speaker 1: 0:31

to death. Always love food. Can't remember? Not, I want to show other people how to cook and talk about ingredients.

Speaker 2: 0:37

Gordon Ramsay. Is he as grumpy in real life as he is in the? Hey? Matt haycox here with a quick interruption just to say I hope you're liking the show, but please, please, like, subscribe or comment. That's how we can bring you better guests. That's how we can make the show better each week. So, please, please. That's all I ever ask of you. We never charge, we never ask anything else. Just please give us a few moments of your time. Guys, welcome to another episode of Stripping Off with Matt Haycox, where we metaphorically strip down our guests. We get to hear their story, their experiences and we learn about money, business, life and everything that our amazing guests have got to teach. And today we're cooking up a storm with a true whiz of the kitchen, none other than the champ of BBC's yes Chef back in 2016 and the creative mind behind the cookbook Easy. So, chris Baber, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. We've just been talking about hot cross buns.

Speaker 1: 1:38

You've done a good effort with a few of them.

Speaker 2: 1:41

But no, not just hot cross buns, but entrepreneurship, marketing. We talk about rowing your own boat and quite a few interesting things we were talking about before we started to record. So very much looking forward to some of the angles that this conversation can go down. I think it's going to be very applicable to anyone's career, anyone's way of life. But just set the scene and tell us how it all began for you Was 2016 when you first got known yeah, that was it, and I mean I'll go back to before that in a second.

Speaker 1: 2:11

But that, yes, chef, was the moment. And there is a moment, a very specific one, I thought I need to work in food full-time as a job. Growing up in northumberland, in a market town, beautiful part of the world you don't realize it till you move away um, lived there till I was 25, always loved food can't remember not. I'd want to stand in the kitchen and help cook and, as soon as I was tall enough, cook for myself. But we didn't grow up around restaurants and things like that. I took a lot of inspiration from you know, you rick steins of the world on tv, and I thought if I could ever work in food, it would be that more. I want to show other people how to cook and talk about ingredients. That's what I'd love to do. And then, yeah, growing up always had this entrepreneurial spirit, had small businesses, had a nightlife business. I was always trying to carve my way, didn't really see eye to eye with you know, education in the academic sense. And then I started Instagram. Just from literally hassling people with pictures of food to my friends going go on Instagram. But this is 2016, when it was just a picture. Someone from BBC reached out to me and said we've got a competition for home cooks called yes, chef, you'd be a great contestant, do you want to do it? So I thought you know what, why not? Let's give it a go.

Speaker 1: 3:21

And at the time, I don't know, I had a couple of thousand people on Instagram cooking my recipes at home. And yeah, I've gone on this show and Atul Kutcher and Pierre Kaufman two fantastic Michelin star chefs with the judges end up winning. And I remember taking a plate of food up to Atul the first part of the show. I'd cooked this dish and he ate it and looked me in the eye and he just went. You've absolutely nailed it. And it was that moment, getting that gratification from a Michelin star chef that I aspired to be like on TV or whatever, giving me that feedback. I had this feeling inside of like I need to make a go of this. And after the show, off his own back, he said Chris, come down to London, you can work in my restaurant in Mayfair. And then, two weeks later, moved down, left Dormer did you go and work?

Speaker 1: 4:03

there. Yeah, I went down.

Speaker 2: 4:04

I'm actually just looking back at my notes here because I don't know the name, atal Kutcher, but I've just realised he's from Tamarand, which is my one of my literally top three restaurants in London, where I go every time I'm down. So I will actually be down there later.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Think back in the 90s. He got it a star. Then he went on. He's had several restaurants since, but that's where he began his journey. So it was an absolute, you know, game changer. Getting that opportunity and being from a small town and, you know, hadn't been to uni, hadn't traveled always was very focused on having a business around there.

Speaker 2: 4:36

I didn't really know exactly what, but I just went for it what do you think it was that kind of gave you that entrepreneurial spirit? I mean, were your parents, your parents, business owners?

Speaker 1: 4:44

No, it's interesting. It's hard to dig into what that is, but I remember being 13,. We were chatting earlier, had a car washing business, was putting cards through doors.

Speaker 2: 4:52

And was that? I mean? What were you seeking? Were you seeking money?

Speaker 1: 4:57

I guess in a way I was but also just the sense of fulfilment you get from putting the work in and seeing the rewards at the other end. I always of fulfillment you get from putting the work in and seeing the rewards at the other end. I always found that really interesting. It was a me and a mate of mine, johnny. At school we used to always want to do our own thing, but my parents weren't entrepreneurs. My mom was a nurse, worked in the nhs for 40 years, my dad was in the military, then it became working in insurance and they worked so hard and I admire that so much and I always just wanted to do my own thing. And it's a weird one because you would think I came from a family of business owners but I didn't what about cooks?

Speaker 2: 5:32

I mean, was it was your mom just it was your mom that was a just a decent cook? Was she just a family cook?

Speaker 1: 5:37

yeah, just, you know, again, people have this presumption. Oh, you would have had spices from your travels in Morocco. You know, a normal. We were on our normal beautiful holidays, by the way, like just time with the family, but nowhere really exotic, and it was, you know, lasagna, spag, bol, chicken, curry, sunday roast kind of thing. It was nothing adventurous, but I think, you know, I'd just see people cooking up a storm, mainly on TV, because we didn't have access to the restaurants and get in the kitchen and try and replicate that stuff for myself.

Speaker 2: 6:03

And that's where my sort of love for transforming some simple ingredients to something delicious kind of came from, I think it's interesting to see some of the bigger restaurants now that actually make a name for themselves just doing fantastic versions of those classic dishes. You know, I think fancy restaurants and what's like getting out of home to go to a restaurant was always seen as something where you've got to have these weird and wonderful dishes. You know, super complicated, you don't even understand what you're eating. But you know things like shepherd's pie, spag bol. You know, a chicken scallop or whatever. Yes, the dishes people could cook at home, but they are just timeless classics that if done well, you know, you can make a career out of.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Oh, totally, and I think things go in cycles and we'd seen all that stuff. I remember back on the day at BMars. It was all foams and juice. I remember watching that stuff with my granddad and he couldn't get his head around it. And I think we've become so in tune with our quality of our ingredients where it comes from. Now. Me, growing up in britain, I'm incredibly passionate about british seasonal produce and I think when you're using a great product, you don't need to do as much to it to make it into something absolutely insane.

Speaker 2: 7:11

You don't need all the thrills that go with it all of the time talk to me about life in a mission in star kitchen and you know I want I want to try and maybe pull some parallel parallels or analogies here. I recorded a podcast a couple of weeks ago, uh, with a guy called uh, mark mark priestly f, the f1 elvis, and he used to be um, he used to be lewis hamilton's mechanic and working from working for mclaren under lewis hamilton and he now kind of goes around the world talking about um, how to run your business like an f1 team and what I guess what entrepreneurs and what business owners can learn from. Uh, you learn from the way that F1 is run, with the attention to detail, with the, I guess, with the teamwork, the team building, the fastidiousness, et cetera. And you may tell me I'm completely wrong, but I would see a military-run Michelin star kitchen as very much that same kind of analogy. That attention to detail, levels of production line team that needs to come together is very much the same thing.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Oh yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head and by no means am I going to say I've worked in France training for 15 years. I worked in a Michelin star restaurant for six months. I'm really proud of it and I took a lot away from it. But that intense experience of the efficiency, the teamwork when one person dropped the ball, you know, everything can kind of drop. So it is this teamwork, efficiency, attention to detail and just standards as well, and I think the pride people take in their work to achieve everyone's in that same boat to achieve the same outcome. You've got to be really in it. But there's so much from what you've said about the f1 is that team, team effort and all of the bits that go with it.

Speaker 2: 8:54

And what and what makes it run in a way so much more efficient than the local pizza hut, for example? Why can't pizza hut apply those those same logics or or theories, even though it's just a different ingredient?

Speaker 1: 9:08

yeah, I mean to be honest, like some of the chains, they do have amazing systems in place. Because they have so many restaurants they follow the same system throughout them all to keep them consistent. So there's almost a framework which they adhere to. I guess as you go up into the finer dining, it's just the standards of the food than the timing you know you've got people. There's a lot more.

Speaker 2: 9:30

I guess the pressure's slightly on more there in that sense and when we talk about, I guess, like the well-known michelins and chefs, like at all or other household names, like a gordon ramsay or something, on a cook night in one of their restaurants, what do they actually do? I mean, are they doing much cooking or are they just? Are they the? What's the word? The?

Speaker 1: 9:51

conductor of the orchestra. Yeah, I mean hey, I can't put words into any of them. I don't know how they run their businesses, but from friends I've got in the industry I guess you get to that level. Yeah, you're cooking now in a game, but you're the visionary and you're also giving other people an opportunity to come in and learn and have some creativity in their kitchen under their name. And I think that's what Atul was amazing with me in that, yes, he wasn't in there cooking every day, but he's been there and done all of that. He's got a vision for this restaurant and how it should be. But I think giving younger people an opportunity or anyone, doesn't matter your age to come in and learn and help create something towards the same goal.

Speaker 2: 10:30

And you say creativity, and I guess you know this is probably my inability to have vision in a field that's absolutely not my area of expertise, other than my ability to eat hot cross buns. But where did your creativity come from in an industry that, I would kind of say, from a labourer, is done to death? I mean, you're not inventing a new animal, you're not inventing a new vegetable. I mean, how the fuck do you keep coming up with creative ideas that get people going? Wow, chris has done this so fucking different.

Speaker 1: 11:01

You know, I think first of all you can't and there's, yeah, there's only so many spag bol recipes out there for that sort of thing. But I think a lot of it comes from, like travel and you know, I'm lucky enough now to live in london, which is such an eclectic mix of cultures and we've got access to so many ingredients from around the world. But I think travel's a big one, and just learning from people in other cultures how they use that ingredient to the best it can be, and bringing that back and giving it again, putting your own spin on something like it's probably the way it is I'm trying to, I'm trying to think in my head while we're talking as well.

Speaker 2: 11:36

I think probably you know. A business analogy to that for me would be that, uh, often people talk about you know inventing a new business and you know inventing a new business and inventing a new idea. And my view is that once every 10 years a revolutionary thing comes around, like an Uber. I was going to say that's probably not even the right example there, but let's say like an iPod or something. But the rest of the time there are no new businesses, there are no new business ideas. It's the same things, either delivered in a different method or executed in a different way, and the ideas themselves are almost irrelevant. It's the execution that matters. So I guess you're not going to invent a new spag bol. But where's your beef coming from? How are you presenting it on the table? Which cheese are you putting on top? And you know execution is everything. Idea is, you know, ten, a penny.

Speaker 1: 12:31

I think that's right and I think for me, especially because a lot of my work now is creating recipes for people to cook at home I get such a passion from that and giving people confidence in the kitchen. Yes, confidence in the kitchen, yes, there could be one recipe for you. Know you use your spag bol, example. How I create that in a way that makes someone feel confident about doing it. It is that execution element as well. But I think the provenance of the ingredients is important, so you could eat some thing in the lake district that's the same dish, but with local ingredients to what you might get down south, and just that subtle flavor profile or local differences which can transform a similar ingredient into something fairly different.

Speaker 2: 13:10

We've talked about you obviously having an entrepreneurial streak from an early age, but how often do you see, let's say, big chefs that are also truly great business operators? I think I mentioned to you Jean-Christophe Nivelli came on the show six or nine months ago and he very happily admits that he is a terrible businessman, an amazing chef. Terrible businessman who's lost money hand over fist with everything he does if he doesn't have a partner, if he doesn't have someone to kind of, I guess, control the finances and look after the money while he looks after the, after the food.

Speaker 1: 13:46

I mean, you know any, any stories there, any, um, any, I guess, great guys or bad guys ah, you know, I think a lot of it comes down to having the right team around you, doesn't it? Because I think everything can come down to team effort and surrounding yourself with the right people makes all the difference and also being able to admit sometimes you might get into a project and being able to realize and step away from the wrong thing, rather than flogging a dead horse at some points and having the pride to go. You know what that isn't working, let's pivot, let's change. But I think that ability to keep moving when you need to and actually see what's working and stick with it. But I think that's something I've always been fairly good at, and because I'm not in a restaurant, I work for myself, I consult for different brands. Maybe I'll start my own one day.

Speaker 2: 14:32

It's always a learning, but just constantly looking for the opportunities is another thing, as well, I mean when you kind of go to cookery school I know you didn't have all the formal training, but I mean when chefs learn to be chefs, do they ever get taught about the monetary side as well? Listen, you've just made a beautiful dish there, but it's so fucking expensive to make that you could never possibly sell it on, or that without a margin of X, you haven't got the money to be able to pay for the other people in the kitchen.

Speaker 1: 14:56

I mean, that's a great question and one I'm probably not qualified to talk about, but I think there is some guidance. But I couldn't, I couldn't go into that. But great point though, because there's having the execution of being able to cook but actually transform that into a business. Whether it's doing what I do, which is a lot of social media and working for different brands, or whether you're going to go into the restaurant game, I think you know it should be something that's taught and even getting away from food just in schools. How to? First thing I did is you start working for yourself, you start earning some money and then you go. Well, how do I file a tax return? Or something like that? It's the stuff that you seem to learn on your way, that they don't teach you at school, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 15:37

How have you built up your social media following?

Speaker 1: 15:40

So constantly posting recipes was how it started. But this is back when it was just an image, it wasn't a video or anything like that. So it was relatively simple. These were your recipes yeah, just my own recipes Literally cooked dinner at home. This is years and years ago. Take a picture, write the recipe and built a bit of a community, and I think building a community is a key thing to keep them engaged and having people want to join. And then various projects. I think I did a huge partnership with Marks Spencers which really helped grow my profile One of the proudest things I've ever done and it gave me a lot of recognition. And you know we did a lot of stuff through TV and ITV and in-store cardboard cutouts and everything, and that really helped with the social media profile. But I think persistence and just sort of sticking with your message and following through with it- have you still got a cardboard chris cutout at home?

Speaker 1: 16:32

funnily enough. Uh, my mum's got one because I couldn't make it home for mother's day one year. So I spoke to my friend shari at marcus and spencer's any chance of shipping one of them cutouts up to my mum. But the bother is it's in my old bedroom. I was up there the week. You wake up in the night and I've got a cutout of myself. It's a bit frightening, to be honest.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Let's just talk about the Marks and Spencers gig, because just before we started recording we were talking about how you got that and, unless I'm misheard, that was a gig that you got yourself from a relationship that you've made off the back of networking.

Speaker 2: 17:07

I thought I'm going to stick that in the memory bank, because one of the biggest things I always talk about for my own success is my network, the power of that network and how I probably spend 50% of my working life.

Speaker 2: 17:20

Now, even this is a form of networking for me. I have the podcast because I get to meet great people and you know, I think, particularly in the celebrity world, I think it's the biggest missed opportunity of networking as well, because nine times out of 10, once you've got a bit of profile, you get the ego with it and you think everybody should be coming to you, whereas the reality is that profile is probably going to be short-lived and it should be a time that you're doubling down on it, a time that people you've got to take advantage of the fact that people want to speak to you right now. So use it to push and grow that network as much as you can, because the time that you've lost your profile. At least you've still got your network and it'll be there to take you on to round two. But I mean, is networking something that's been accidental for you, or have you made a conscious effort to go and do that?

Speaker 1: 18:10

I think the accidental bit's been a northerner and chatting to everyone because I came down to London, I left the restaurant, I had this vision of what I wanted to do within the media space and kind of what I'm doing now Didn't know anyone, was out there on my own and it was like, right, well, I need to get to know people and I think just having a bit of chat with people, as you do when you're from the north, really paid off and I made a conscious effort to reach out to people, search for PRs that worked in food, turn up to restaurant events and launch parties and slowly but surely, and also use social media.

Speaker 1: 18:43

That's such a strong tool now to make connections, strengthen relationships, arrange meetups in person and I've probably spent a year and a half um working my way around and I think, in terms of Marks and Spencer something I'm incredibly proud of and I loved that project so much I ended up meeting someone else at bbc. I did something for blue peter launched a cookery club for kids a fantastic thing but fairly small scale and that got noticed by someone. I'm at another event and then they moved to another business. Then I'm at this pr event. I met the marketing director of marks and spencers had a chat. Two days later I'm in the office and it all just sort of adds up and I think the power of the network is it's played a massive part in any success I've had and going forward I know it will continue, so I still make an effort.

Speaker 2: 19:34

And I was going to say presumably not resting on your laurels, it's not. Oh, I've done this networking and I've got my Marks Spencers gig and I'm the big dogger. That's the end of it. So I've got this Marston Spencer's gig and I'm going to use that to meet more people, to parlay that onto something else 100%.

Speaker 1: 19:47

And I think one big thing is just really simple just be nice to people, just work hard and don't be a dick and have a chat, because even just some of my personal friends in London never mind the business side you move to a big city. You don't know anyone and it's incredibly lonely because there's a lot of people around but you don't know any of them. So even friendships as well as business relationships are formed from making an effort to just be nice, have a chat and, funnily enough, this morning I got a message from someone I've just been booked to do a couple of episodes on a BBC show, someone I'd met years ago. They just reach out because you've made the effort, you've been nice, and things do come back around, don't they?

Speaker 2: 20:25

I think, something else I've picked up on which was an important point to make as well.

Speaker 2: 20:27

Uh, you know you talked about a couple of previously um, not so great experiences with with agents or managers that you've had.

Speaker 2: 20:34

I think another big mistake, you know which whether it's for people in the media or for people in any kind of business is to hire a consultant or to outsource something to a third party and then just forget about it, leave it to them and move on.

Speaker 2: 20:49

And you know you really have to continue to control all parts of it. Yes, okay, you might not be able to be a manager because you don't have the contacts with the TV companies or whatever it may be, but when you give yourself over to that manager, you've got to ride the fuck out of them, because you can obviously use your common sense and the fact that you know your brand and your business better than anybody else to know if they're acting your best interest, if they're fighting hard enough for you I totally agree, and I think one thing I've always stood by whether it's that or any sort of work is you've got to take full responsibility for everything, because you meet a lot of people in my game any, any business or any sort of work environment where, oh, they're dealing with that, that's all right.

Speaker 1: 21:29

Well, actually, I think if you take full responsibility and you're always on top of it, then the only person that blames yourself because I'm not one to point the finger and blame people for anything, because I'll take responsibility if it's going great, let's keep going, and if it's not well, I'm responsible. That as well. So then let's end it and let's move on somewhere else.

Speaker 2: 21:45

And that's the thing, because even when it is a third party who's let you down, you put that third party in that position of control. I think the two key things that I think are important for me to try and be successful in business are one, to know as much about every area of the business as possible. And again, I guess, using the chef context, you can say well, you know, I'm the chef, I cook in the kitchen, I don't. You know, steve looks after front of house, claire looks after the finances. If you leave Steve and Claire to do that without, I'm not saying you need to know enough to be able to do their job better than them, because that's probably not realistic, but you've got to at least know enough to know that you can challenge them, to know that they're not taking the piss to pulling the wool over your eyes or whatever.

Speaker 2: 22:26

I think you know that's. That's key number one. And key number two is I always like to say that everything's my fault, because I'm gonna. If you look at everything as your fault, it's the only way you can then change it. You know, even if you've been let down by a member of staff, let down by a supplier, we can blame them. That's not going to fix anything. I hired that member of staff. What was wrong in my hiring? I put that supplier in a position to be able to fuck me. Why did I do that? What can I change for next time? I think those two key things are applicable to any business, any area of media, any area of life, and are very important.

Speaker 1: 22:56

I totally agree and I think, going back to your first point in terms of taking responsibility, if I've got an opportunity to work with a brand, a company, whatever that might be, I want to fully immerse myself in it and learn, not just stay in the lane of I'm just going to do my job and go.

Speaker 1: 23:13

It's like, just go above and beyond for everything. What else can I learn? And, you know, make the most of being in that room, whether it's a development kitchen, a business, a marketing meeting show up to things you don't even need to be at just to learn. You don't know who you're going to meet there or what you might learn that might help you in the next phase. And I think that's another part of my sort of mindset and just how I go about my business of like, if I'm involved in, say, marks and spencers, for instance, why don't I want to learn a bit more about the marketing side of it? And sitting on some of those meetings and learn a bit about this and a bit about that, and it always just helps. And again, it's just that taking responsibility. For here's the situation, what's the most I can get out of it.

Speaker 2: 23:51

It's interesting listening to this because, going back to the F1 mechanic I was talking about a minute ago, he was saying exactly the same stuff in the context of Lewis Hamilton's success. Basically, talking about when you look at an F1 driver, in general they're only really contracted to rock up on a Thursday, stay for the practice and the qualies race on a Sunday and then go. But if you look at Lewis, he's always Monday to Thursday. He's working on his nutrition, he's sat in the office with the engineers and the mechanics and he's looking at the data when the race is finished, he's the's sat in the uh, he's sat in the office with with the engineers and the mechanics and he's looking at the data. You know, when the race is finished, he's the last person to leave the track because he's still walking the track.

Speaker 2: 24:30

He's still, he's still still looking at the data and, uh, you know when, when you've got a, I guess, a game of 20 people who are absolutely all at the top of the game anyway because they are the world's best f1 drivers, you know the the difference between, I guess, being world number one and one of the other 19 are those frat. You know those, those micro, micro differences that can only come from, you know, from attention to detail obsession and and absorbing yourself in every other possible area. And again, it's just applicable to every field, whether you're chefing, whether you're boxing, whether you're running a business. It's uh, you know it's, it's applicable everywhere. It really is.

Speaker 1: 25:04

I couldn't agree more and it's like if, if you're boxing, whether you're running a business, it's applicable everywhere. It really is. I couldn't agree more. And it's like, if you're in that room, stay till the end, soak it up like a sponge and just talk to everyone, because I think that's a big thing I've taken from just literally speaking to everyone. You don't know what they're going to say, who they might be, and treat everyone the same is another thing. Don't think oh, I've been booked for this, I'm going to turn up and do that. We're all equal. We're all just people, right?

Speaker 2: 25:31

I think another important facet of success is not overcomplicating things. Whilst I haven't had the pleasure of reading your book yet, I would imagine the title Easy is about keeping things simple and having easily produced stuff.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Yeah, I mean hit the nail on the head easy.

Speaker 1: 25:46

There was a million discussions with the publishers. What are we going to call this book? What's the hook? What's the catch? I'm like there isn't one. It's easy. I put a poll out on social media and said what do you like most about my recipes? Thousands of just the word easy, easy, easy. And that book really is. It's something I stand for.

Speaker 1: 26:03

I grew up loving to cook and my big thing is I want to help build confidence in the kitchen. I want to remove barriers to food and you talk about keeping it simple. Whether it's business or whatever, I've written it in everyday language, which has made a huge difference to a lot of people. If someone wants to learn to cook or isn't very confident, if it says, saute a carrot that you julienne, if you don't speak French or you're not a chef or really into it, it's off-putting, it's a barrier. So I've written everything in. Like you know, lightly fry an oil carrot that you've chopped into matchsticks. Whether you're a great chef, a novice, somewhere in between, anyone can get that and I think there shouldn't be any barriers. And again, keeping it simple in terms of all of the ingredients you could buy in a supermarket, but equally, if you want to go to the farmer's market or butchers, you could get them there too. So it's about just making it accessible, simple for everyone, no matter your ability quite often I don't do much cooking anymore.

Speaker 2: 26:57

I've got my two or three go-to dishes, which is a chicken, chicken lasagna and uh and some kind of uh, some kind of thai. But if I ever do veer off to try and do something more exciting, when I pull up recipes I always look for the easiest one and sometimes you'll see a recipe I don't know whatever the food is and it'll be 25 different ingredients to make that thing. And then I see another recipe and it's six ingredients to make the thing. And when I look another recipe and it's six ingredients to make the thing, and when I look at what they are, I think first of all I can't be arsed going around the supermarket to find you know three grams of you know of buffalo's testicle juice or whatever it may be that we're going to put one drop of, because A I can't find it. I can't be bothered.

Speaker 2: 27:42

But I think the reality is it's not going to make the slightest bit of fucking difference to that dish anyway. Now there obviously becomes a tipping point where taking out too much does make a difference. But again, in terms of business analogies or analogies to other things, how much stuff do you see in the kitchen that is just totally overcomplicated and I guess where that kind of 80 rule rule can apply that, uh, you know 80 percent of the taste, 80 percent of the success of the flavor is going to come from 20 of the ingredients and you know 20 of the efforts yeah, that's a great point.

Speaker 1: 28:15

I think a lot of it comes down to, especially for home cooking, and my style is, if you've got good quality ingredients, that's the 80, the 20 is the other bits. You don't need all of those buffalo testicles you on top of it. If you just buy a really good piece of beef, you could just season that, so with some veg, that's delicious. So I think one of the big things is all these fads of gadgets and stuff, where that they are the things that people jump on. It's going to change the game. It hasn't. It's just simple ingredients, cooked well. I think is the key for me anyway to home cooking and that's the way to build people's confidence.

Speaker 2: 28:47

Keep it simple do you enjoy the tv experience?

Speaker 1: 28:51

I love it. Yeah, I remember walking into that studio we did in 2016. I felt really at home and comfortable and I think the reason is because I love food and I love my message about this, showing people how simple it is. Markss and Spencers I traveled the country, oh, talking about British seasonal produce something I'm so passionate about and to have that opportunity to share my message through them with some brilliant produce. I felt incredibly comfortable and I thrive on it.

Speaker 1: 29:18

However, ask me to stand up there and talk about hair care or skincare, so I'm completely out of my comfort zone. So I do really like it, but ultimately, it always comes back to because someone might well take that recipe, try it at home. And for me, the biggest tick is I get messages on social media every single day, tons of them. Chris made that chicken curry with the kids at the weekend. It was so simple. Wait all the leftovers the next day and we're going to make it next week. And I think, if I've got that platform with TV or social to share a message and inspire someone, and it works. Happy days.

Speaker 2: 29:50

What is your passion about with seasonal produce and local ingredients? I mean, it's just your thing that you're really into, or does it really make a difference?

Speaker 1: 30:01

It does make a difference and I think for a number of reasons. I'm proud to be British. I grew up here and I always knew about. You know, I grew up in the countryside picking berries in the summer. I would always know kind of what's in season, but you lose touch of it because things were available all year round. And then when I took this role traveling around the country, the message I would get from the farmers you could have a chat for two hours, but it would always come back to Chris.

Speaker 1: 30:28

When it's in season it tastes even better and it costs even less. Strawberries aren't on offer because Wimbledon's on, it's because they're growing like crazy and they need to get rid of them and sell them or they're going to be left with a ton that are going to go in the bin. So it's something I developed even more of a passion for with all the travel I did. And you know if anyone's thinking of environmental things now, you know shipping in south african green beans when you could get them from here, or strawberries in december from the other side of the world. Well, they don't taste as good. The cost markers have been imported, so just the the positives of seasonal british food are right up there, number one being taste.

Speaker 2: 31:06

Talk to me a bit about nutrition, healthy eating or lack of. I know you've got a bit of a background in sport. 800 metres you said you used to run. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:15

I used to compete, so, being a teenager into my early 20s, if I could have done anything other than what I do now, I would have loved to have been a professional athlete, but I tore my patella tendon and that kind of stuff. But you know, always loved food, always loved fitness. But it was especially back then, like 15 years ago. All you'd see in any fitness magazine or whatever you're trying to read up on getting fit and what to eat was boiled chicken, boiled rice, the chicken and broccoli brigade. But because I loved food, it was how do I make something that is delicious enough for me to eat as a foodie, if you want to say, and also my family to eat, but good enough for me to fuel my body as an athlete, a runner? How do I make a chicken tikka masala, for example, that's actually healthy enough for me to eat but tastes amazing enough to want to eat it? And that was just a style that I guess I gradually adapted over the years. I've got a big partnership coming up with men's fitness magazine soon and we're going to do some proper food like but good enough to eat if you're meeting your training goals.

Speaker 1: 32:13

But I've never been one for counting calories, I think I just keep it really simple eat fresh food, buy, you know, fresh stuff, everything in moderation, a bit of what your fancy does. You're good and I think you've got to treat yourself and for me, it's about having a healthy relationship with food and not cutting certain things out. I don't think you should have guilty pleasures, because I think food is a joy, it is a pleasure, it's one of the greatest joys in life, and I think it's a shame that we've got access to so many beautiful ingredients and the most incredible restaurants, especially in London, where there's certain things that probably aren't healthy, but that's a treat and that's a joy and that's one of my big joys. And to see people go oh, I'm not eating gluten, why are you celiac? No, I saw it on Instagram. Well, come on, like you've got to enjoy it as well.

Speaker 2: 32:59

Everybody's gluten-free.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Now know, you try and order a coffee and you're like so's intolerance the last. The last milk you're offered is one from a cow, which I find quite entertaining. I took my dad down to london. We end up in this coffee shop. My dad's a yorkshireman and we didn't know it was a vegan place and he's gone through all the milks and he's had to leave because he couldn't settle with a soy milk or something like. I just want it from cow.

Speaker 2: 33:22

Tell me. One of the excuses given by people to, I guess, to eat unhealthy and to use takeaways, et cetera, is that eating healthy at home is too expensive and it's too complicated. Give me, I mean. Well, first of all tell me why that's bollocks and then give me four or five top tips for someone who is unhealthy, out of shape and living on takeaways because they think it's too complicated and too expensive. How can they do it quickly and easily?

Speaker 1: 33:50

I think one way to cut down a massive load of cost is, regardless of your main meal, stop buying the expensive, shitty snacks that you eat in between and I know it's everything in moderation, but some people like cane and that stuff the chocolate bars, the rubbish. If you just stop buying that and it's not in the house, you're not going to eat it and just don't buy as much of the rubbish stuff. And then, when it comes down to tips for cooking, if you're just using fresh stuff, like right now, get some asparagus, put a poached egg on top, a bit of salt and pepper. I bet you that's less expensive than the 12 quid takeout or something you know.

Speaker 2: 34:24

I was going to say what kind of budget should someone expect to be able to make a breakfast, a lunch and a dinner? For if they're going to cook it themselves, buy fresh ingredients.

Speaker 1: 34:34

I mean great question Depends on what you want to actually make. But if you look at, I've got no money.

Speaker 2: 34:40

You know I'm on minimal income. You know cost of living crisis. You know struggling with the kids. I want to feed a family of four Something tasty enough to enjoy, but money is so tight.

Speaker 1: 34:54

Yeah, cool, chana masala, chickpea curry something I love from a takeaway. Actually, chickpeas what? 50 to 60, 70 pence a tin. I'm paying where you go. A couple of onions, onions, sweat them down, some ginger, some garlic, some powdered spices yeah, they're a pound each for a jar in the supermarket, but they're going to last you a few months. Cook the spices down, throw in your chickpeas, some fresh tomatoes, tomato puree, simmer it for 20 minutes, squeeze a lemon. What's that? Three quid feeds four people, big thing. A nice rice with it. Chick Chickpeas packed full of fibre, protein, really simple. Beans and pulses are a great way to keep the cost down if you're looking for protein, also nourishment. But then, when it comes down to buying chicken and we talk about adaptability of recipes, swap out your chicken breasts for drumsticks. I was in the shop earlier. I saw a really good quality packet chicken drumsticks £1.50, chicken breast £4. So I think it's been able to make suitable swaps and just being confident enough to make those swaps.

Speaker 2: 35:49

And I guess where you buy the stuff from makes all the difference as well. I mean, you know just an anecdotal example Three or four years ago my mate and I we did Rich House, poor House, the TV show, and we were given the budget of the lady that we swapped with to live on. So we had £67.13 to live on for the week and one of the things that we filmed because obviously we've got five or six scenes that we've got to film one of them was going to the supermarket to do the shop so that we could cook for her mother that night and have some food in the house for us. Now it wasn't realistic because obviously you know to film, you've got to get permission to film. So the only place we could film in was almost like a local spa shop and we went and bought the ingredients and we've done in half the week's budget because we're buying the local spa shop, because we're paying four quid for cheese instead of 80 pence, we're paying three quid for butter, and you know, I guess it's almost like a false slash, hypothetical example, but just goes to prove the point that if you don't plan, you know, and if you buy these things in the wrong place.

Speaker 2: 37:00

You know, like an ex of mine, you know, a few years ago. Uh, she, you know, she, she didn't have much money and when she like, used to cook for me. She'd make the most mega meals, but she'd be, you know, she'd be going to aldi for the vegetables as opposed to me going to marks and spencers for them. And she's making something mega. Well, it's mega because she could cook and I couldn't, but you know she's making it for two and a half quid. I've been making it for 25 quid just because it's a mark's and spencer's tomato versus an aldi tomato, which, ultimately, is exactly the same thing yeah it's, it's a great one and I think you've just got to shop smart.

Speaker 1: 37:31

I think that's a big thing. I always say to people and everyone's budget is different but the planning that word there, I think, is key, because the last thing you want to do is buy stuff. The amount of food that goes in the bins at home is actually ridiculous and that's money. I always say to people you know, when you throw that half a pack of herbs in the bin, just pretend you're throwing 50 pence in the bin or you didn't finish all your chicken. Well, that pack of chicken was four quid, another two pound in the bin.

Speaker 1: 37:56

So if you actually write a meal plan, it sounds so basic, but we spoke about keeping things simple monday to sunday what you're going to eat every day. Are there some ingredients that could go over two meals? There's a big section on that in my book and actually planning for success and I think a lot of it is, yes, where you buy it, but how much is going in the bin and you're rebuying stuff on different days I can tell you I'm the worst for that, because one of my uh, one of my uh obsessions, if you like, is having a nice full fridge.

Speaker 2: 38:25

But having a nice full fridge is obviously at the complete expense of being efficient. I kind of want everything in there for when I want it in there, but then you just know, by definition, that you're chucking 50% of it away.

Speaker 1: 38:39

It's ridiculous. It's a tough one and I think people should get better at understanding that you don't need the full fridge every day and being able to use what you've got. And again, if people have a bit more confidence, you can get to the end of the week and see there's a few bits and pieces in the fridge. I don't need to go and buy anything else because I've got the ability to cook something from scratch. But I heard a stat kind of changing the topic, but back to your first point about health and nutrition and food that the majority of people that are malnourished now are actually clinically obese is a stat that I heard which really shocked me to think. You know, a lot of people are overfed but undernourished, so there's obviously money going somewhere and they're saying they can't eat healthy. But that's just something I heard. It's too many hot cross buns. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1: 39:24

I saw you're quite liberal with the butter on there.

Speaker 2: 39:26

You think that was liberal. I thought I was reining it in. You use your social media platform to promote mental health awareness. I mean, why is that something that's important to you?

Speaker 1: 39:36

Yeah, I worked with a charity called Better and they did a book and they used loads of different chefs and personalities and celebrities and it was a small project initially that I'm gonna get more involved with. But I think especially men's mental health I mean, I'm pretty basic lad from the north of England. I keep a lot of stuff bottled up and just the power and be able to talk, but then where food comes into it number one I've always found that that I don't even know if you, I don't even know what mindfulness means, but I hear it a lot. Now, just being present in the moment, actually creating something, being so fully immersed in that experience, um, and you know, I moved to london and started a business of my own, working for myself, didn't know anyone and I look back and think, you know, those were fairly hard times and you all face stuff and I wish I'd just maybe spoken more and I've also lost a few friends, which is frightening actually to suicide, really. All lads, how old, are you?

Speaker 1: 40:33

I'm 32.

Speaker 2: 40:34

In your age bracket, are they?

Speaker 1: 40:35

One when I was yeah, yeah, school friends. One when I was 16,. One late teenagers and then a good mate of mine when I was about 25. And late teenagers and then a good mate of mine when I was about 25 and that's three people before I turned 30. So it's one of them. I think what was going on in their head and maybe just a conversation could have, could have changed it. Maybe it hadn't, but I just think, because I've dealt with it firsthand, any little thing I can do to even just say that word mental health and awareness, if it sparks someone to have a listen and even have a chat with someone if they feel the need to, I just say don't bottle stuff up.

Speaker 2: 41:11

And what kind of things do you do with the charity?

Speaker 1: 41:13

Oh. So we've got a big dinner coming up where we're just going to talk a bit more about the awareness Fundraising dinner.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Yeah, are you cooking?

Speaker 1: 41:19

I'm actually just going to do a talk and they're going to work with a restaurant that also supports it, but as an ambassador, I'm going to have a chat with everyone and then we do some social media videos around food and there's a cookbook there. But it's certainly an area that I want to look at spending more time personally in and helping to spread the word.

Speaker 2: 41:38

Have you ever used the tagline it's better with baby? I haven't but I'm going to write that down now. You should put that down.

Speaker 1: 41:45

That's a good one.

Speaker 2: 41:48

Let's talk about the future. Let's talk about expansion. You've obviously done a lot in a short number of years. You haven't got your own restaurant yet. It's funny because I guess again bringing analogies in here I guess as a chef you'd always look at having my own restaurant as the kind of epitome of success, whereas in the media world you look about having a TV show as the epitome of success. But I think with the new distribution channels of today, having a successful YouTube channel will ultimately be more profitable for you than having a TV show, and maybe not owning a restaurant is going to be better for you because you can do licensing deals and use your name and stuff. So I think it's a natural default to say oh, you're a top chef, why have you not got your own restaurant? But what does the future hold for you?

Speaker 1: 42:37

Yeah, great question. I think nowadays it's such a multifaceted thing and I certainly haven't taken the conventional track to get to where I am and I'm quite proud of that that. I've sort of carved my own lane and I'm happy in it and people can sort of say what they want about that. But I work incredibly hard and do I want a restaurant? Not right now. I don't want to be pinned into one location.

Speaker 1: 43:08

I've got the pleasure last year and some more stuff this year, like cooking for brands like Aston Martin out in Monaco, cooking for the launch of a car, having that flexibility and freedom to work with brands I'm really passionate about and helping add value to these projects. I want to do a lot more of that. I consult and I'm an ambassador for another brand called Hexclad, which is the most amazing cookware brand, and I've been working with them for two years and I guess a lot more like, yeah, food side, content side, but also looking at the business in the uk and helping them where I can there. I've taken a lot of enjoyment from that. So that's certainly a big part of my time and something I love great people they're based out in la, building up the team here, so that's.

Speaker 1: 43:44

That's another big focus for me, and then I do want to do another book and I'd love to do more TV and obviously continue to grow my socials as well, which is incredibly important now. But I think television's something that I just really love, that buzz so many people in one room. I'd like to do more of that. So there's a lot of avenues that I want to go down. I think that's the joy of today with working in food whether you're content creator, restaurant chef there are so many opportunities if you go out and and get them what about a cookery school?

Speaker 1: 44:13

that's. That's a good one, because that's something I've really thought of. As you probably gather, I'm passionate about teaching people. During lockdown and covid, I did like online cookery, which got picked up by ITV, and I was teaching families and kids to cook.

Speaker 1: 44:27

Just for fun, like Insta Lives and things. Yeah, three times a week and I built a really solid community. People still reach out to me now saying Chris it's normally the lad and their son who'd never stepped foot in a kitchen they're still cooking together once a week. It's really heartwarming. A cookery school is a great one, but I like to do things in person. So you know, maybe one day that and talking about a restaurant, I think it would be later down the line and I'm a bit more settled, maybe somewhere out of london, a bit more of a base and a real passion project. But I think I've got a lot of places I want to go and things I want to do before that stage well, listen before you go.

Speaker 2: 45:02

I've got some quick fire questions for you. So every chef needs to know, needs to tell us what their favorite dish is christmas dinner really yeah, so because sorry to jump off the quick fire bit.

Speaker 1: 45:15

No, no, it's the one thing I go home every christmas. I cook christmas dinner, eat it with the family, and I just think that, for me, just sums up what food's about cooking something relatively, but sharing it with your family and friends. Do you have bread sauce with it? Oh yeah, you've got to.

Speaker 2: 45:31

We always get roasts over in Dubai and a friend of mine came round to cook one. She said she's like the queen of Sunday roasts, so she comes round to mine to cook. I was like, don't forget the stuffing and the bread sauce. And she's like what stuffing? What's bread sauce? What are you fucking kidding?

Speaker 1: 45:45

me.

Speaker 2: 45:47

How can you have a roast without bread sauce?

Speaker 1: 45:53

Tell me one famous chef you'd love to share the kitchen with God. There's so many of them. That's an amazing question. I'd love to one day, if the opportunity ever come, just step foot in the kitchen with Gordon Ramsay. Always loved that guy and enjoyed everything he's done.

Speaker 2: 46:09

And what's the aspiration with that? Is it because he's super famous, or is it the personality? Or is he a better cook than someone else? He's super talented.

Speaker 1: 46:18

Like he really is. He's incredible. So just to have that experience of just standing there and do some cooking together would be amazing. I don't need any cameras or anything there. Just to literally stand and do that to someone I've looked up to for so long would be an amazing experience.

Speaker 2: 46:33

Have you met?

Speaker 1: 46:34

him before I've met him.

Speaker 2: 46:35

Yeah, Is he as grumpy in real life as he is in the show?

Speaker 1: 46:40

I think he's a gentleman. I think very grounded and very polite and just comes across as an absolute gent.

Speaker 2: 46:48

I saw a show he did in America I can't remember what it was called. I never watched that much TV but I somehow picked up on this one and there was loads of reruns of it on Netflix or whatever TV show I was always watching, where he's not just going in the kitchen but he's going into shitty American restaurant businesses and fixing the whole business with the decor and getting into the accounts and the front of house and the back of house. It was a really good show. Actually it was like a dragon's den meets hell's kitchen type thing.

Speaker 1: 47:16

Yeah, it's brilliant. I've seen some of them and what always gets me is you see these people kicking off and you think he's there to help transform your business. Why are you having to go at the guy? But it's all entertainment, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 47:26

who's your favorite british chef? I mean, I guess the answer is going to be gordon, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 47:29

yeah, I think there's so many of them now like there really is but yeah, he's up there and then it's hard to say I don't think I've got a favorite. I think there's so many that stand for so many different things and they've all got their own styles and uniqueness so yeah, that's a tough one that there can't just be one and tell me about a dish or something that's gone disastrously wrong for you disastrously wrong.

Speaker 1: 47:55

I think probably something that happened when I first started working in mayfair.

Speaker 1: 47:58

I think it's my first two days there. I'm in the back using this like four thousand pound machine to whiz up the sauce it was some red pepper thing and I'm in the back using this like four thousand pound machine to whiz up the sauce it was some red pepper thing and I'm nervous anyway, standing in there with all these people that have worked in these kitchens for years and I just remember not fixing it upright. And I'm in these chef's whites and the thing just blows up and I'm covered in this red what looks like blood, and I'm sort of shouting like fuck and everyone's running in thinking I've severed a hand or something. And then they're like do you know how much that costs? And I'm sort of shouting like fuck and everyone's running in thinking I've severed a hand or something. And then they're like do you know how much that costs? And I'm thinking, oh God, this is all downhill from here. But it was just like you look back and it was hilarious, but at the time I don't think I've ever been more nervous.

Speaker 2: 48:33

You didn't get fired, no, I didn't. No, good good, good, good. Still here, having you on, mate. I've loved the story, loved your journey and, like so many different people I get to talk to, I love the analogies that can be applicable to everything else. So, just before you go obviously you've mentioned your social a few times Just give yourself a little shout-out. Where can people follow you? Where can people find out more about your cooking?

Speaker 1: 48:57

Yeah, the best place is just my Instagram. That's just Chris Baber. Search it in there. Everything I'm up to, the book, all the up and coming projects, it's all on there.

Speaker 2: 49:05

Well, thanks a lot for being here, mate, and I hope to taste your cooking myself sometime soon.

Speaker 1: 49:09

We'll get it sorted.

Speaker 2: 49:10

Thanks for having me. Thank you Thanks for listening to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox. I hope you've enjoyed listening to this week's episode, but please remember to subscribe or to follow and please, please, leave a review. If you can leave a review, that's how we move up the algorithm, that's how we get to the top of the charts and that's how I can keep bringing you bigger and better guests that you'll love each week. Have you got any suggestions for guests? Have you got any burning questions you want to ask? Well, slide into my DMs on social at strippingoffwithmatthaycox.