He Beat Sampras at 19, Then Lost Millions & Hit Rock Bottom | Mark Philippoussis

Most people remember the highlights: the serve, the swagger, the Wimbledon final, the Davis Cup hero moments.

They don’t remember what it costs.

In this episode, Mark Philippoussis gets brutally honest about what happens when you get big money young (a multi-million FILA deal at 17), hit world-stopping highs (beating world #1 Pete Sampras at 19), then your body breaks, your career ends without your permission, and you’re left dealing with the fallout, mentally, financially, and personally. 

What you’ll learn in this episode

• The reality of making serious money at 17, and how it changes you. 
• The mindset of a teenager taking down Pete Sampras (and why “no one expects you to win” can be a weapon). 
• Comebacks aren’t motivational quotes, they’re rehab, dark days, and doing the work when no one’s watching. 
• What forced retirement does to your identity (especially when you never chose it). 
• Losing millions, making mistakes, and why asking “stupid questions” is how you get smart with money. 
• Mark’s daily high-performance routine (the “20-20-20” first hour) and how he sets long-term + daily goals. 

Timestamps
0:00 – Intro
1:13 – Coming Up
3:03 – The accidental start to a world-class career 
10:30 – Signing a multi-million dollar contract at 17 
18:35 – How a 19-year-old took down Pete Sampras 
29:49 – 1999 Davis Cup: crowd pressure, nerves, and delivering anyway 
32:36 – Wimbledon final (and the comeback year people forget) 
38:27 – Knee surgeries, pain, and being told “you’ll never play again” 
48:35 – Losing millions: mistakes, lessons, and rebuilding smarter 
57:09 – Forced retirement (and falling out of love with the sport) 
59:31 – Battling depression during the darkest stretch 
01:07:47 – Why losing everything became the turning point
01:12:29 – The “20-20-20” high-performance formula + journaling routine 
01:20:32 – Final Thoughts

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Transcript

Setting The Stage And Big Matches

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I had uh my third knee surgery on my knee and they did on the virtual fence again.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Mark Philipus! Mark Philipustus. Mark Philipustis.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Filipusos!

SPEAKER_00 0:09

That 2003 final and that was in in the year of your comeback.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Yeah, that was that was one of the biggest years I had.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

I was almost a hundred in the world and I finished that year at eight in the world. The reality is no one remembers number two. Your coming-of-age moment beating Stamp Raptor. I remember walking down the corridor and following Stampis. I remember saying to myself, this guy. Go ahead. When did you first start to earn good money? When I was 17 years old when I started that filler. Multi-million dollar contract with Philip.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

You played Federer in the final in 2003. Two things growing up as a fuzzy tennis player that you dreamt of that was representing your country, putting on the green and gold and winning a Davis Cup and winning Wimbledon.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

And how does the crowd feature in your play? I've always loved crowd. There's a lot of times when I've used a crowd's energy to get me through a match. How do you train yourself to block out the bad points? That comes with experience, just time on the court.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

There's no greater teacher in life like than than tennis.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

In terms of Wimbledon, you you played Federer in the final in 2003. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yes, yeah. So US Open Final 99 and Wimbledon final 2003. That was, yeah, that was a big one because I had close. That was my definitely the best Grand Slam. It was very consistent, always quarterfinals, matches, and that uh never gone past the quarterfinals. One year, I think it was actually it was 99. I was playing Sampras in the quarterfinals. I had won the first set and I had breakpoint the second set and I had torn my cartilage. That's being the up and down of finishing off with with a Davis Cup win was amazing. But um the 2003 was incredibly important and huge one because in 2001 I had uh my third knee surgery on my knee, and they said I'll never play professional tennis again. So I was out for nine months, you know, wheelchair, wheelchair for three months, and then crutches for a couple of months before it started training slowly. Um, so that was a big year getting back into shape fitness-wise and getting on the court again.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

And that 2003 final that was in the year of your comeback.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Yeah, that was that was one of the biggest years I had because I finished, I was almost 100 in the world, and I finished that year eight in the world. Um, and and that year, and I I don't know, I was unseated, definitely unseated. I want 80 something, I might have been, I'm not sure. And and but every time I got on the grass, I just felt incredibly comfortable. Um, it was my favorite surface. Um, you know, I had one Queens before Wimbledon. It was just um my favorite month of the year, you know, um something I looked forward to um every year.

Childhood, First Racket, Early Drive

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Mark, thanks a lot for being here, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Matt, it's an absolute pleasure, man. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Listen, let's um let's go back to the beginning. Let's talk about where it all began: childhood, life at home, and uh when you first picked up a tennis racket.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, I'm born and raised in Melbourne, Australia, eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Well, I kind of got into tennis accidentally in the age of six, six, seven years old. I was uh hanging with my dad, and he happened to be playing uh with a friend of his after work. He was a decent player or just recreationally. He he was hitting the ball like the like the game, I guess it and stayed, you know, just to keep the body moving after work. And and I happen he happened to I happened to be with him and and um I was just bored watching him and I kept on grabbing the balls and said, look, if you behave yourself and let us, you know, don't steal the balls, I promise that after work I'll I'll have a racket for you and we'll go out and hit some balls. So I behaved myself and you had a racket for me, and the next day uh we uh hit some balls and um that's how everything began.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I mean, how long did it take for you to I guess go from hitting balls with your dad to taking taking some proper lessons to you know uh to knowing that there was some talent there?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Okay, I I would hit with him a few times a week and and from him seeing a natural ability, I think, with with first of all coordination, um, with you know uh hitting the ball, picking up a sport, you know, I would say maybe a little more effortless um than others. And and then I started joining uh group coaching um kind of squads or you know, um yeah, just other kids and with lessons, and it grew from there with with me getting on one-on-one coaching, and then him, you know, my father being a student of the game and just love watching the game and and and learnt from from watching the best players in the world, would tape their matches, and then he would kind of um educate himself and and learn from from the best and different things they brought brought to the court. And and again with with coaches and and with him learning, getting on the court himself, it just grew from there.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

When did you start to play uh competitively?

SPEAKER_02 5:03

I I want to say I entered under tens or under 12s, I probably under 10s uh tournaments, you know, when I was nine years old, eight, nine, and started playing um in local competitions, um, and you know, started doing well. And then and from there, I think it's it's weird because very few things in life, especially when you're that age, you vividly remember something. And I remember I it was under 12s and I represented Victoria, and we ended up having to fly to Perth, you know, from Melbourne is like other side. It was a five-hour flight. And I remember walking to this club and just seeing people clapping, and that and for me, it felt like there were hundreds of people there, thousands, but there were just parents, you know, there might have been a dozen parents, but it it was like, oh my god, this is what I want to do with my life, you know. So at the age of probably 10, 11, to have that mindset or of that dream of this is what I want to do was is pretty special because some people, you know, kind of bounce around, they're not really quite sure, you know, they don't have that dream or that that passion they fall in love with until maybe they're in their 20s and and it could be even older. So so for me to kind of have that feeling and and that thought mindset of this is what I want to do at the age of 10, 11, was actually pretty pretty special.

Juniors To Pros And First Sponsorship

SPEAKER_00 6:16

There's many um sporting stories or stories in sport, particularly tennis, of of super pushy parents and you know, and and k kids, uh I guess kids who probably think they enjoy something, but it's really the parents doing it more for themselves than than than it is for the kids. I mean, what was the relationship uh between you and your dad or you and your parents as as you started to get better? I mean, obviously he's he was helping you, but was it was there any pushing or uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

No, look, didn't was my dad tough and pushed me when it got to a certain level, like 15, 16, where I've physically gotten stronger and and I had to push to get to the next level because he understood what it took. That's a yes, that's a different story. I was I think I was 14, 15. But he said, goes, Look, if this is what you want to do, I'm gonna push you. It's not gonna be easy. We would wake up and train while the kids were still sleeping during before school. I would train. Then I'd go to school after school, he'd pick me up, we train again, and he said, This is what it's gonna take. He goes, but you know, you can stop at any time. But if you want to stop, you're gonna have to go to school, focus on your grades, and you're gonna get a job just like everyone else. But if this is what you want to do, you're gonna have to just dedicate and and and and have discipline and and and um you know do what the other kids are not willing to do. Even the other kids that I would play against, you know, you're gonna have to take it to the next level. And I did do that, but but I wouldn't say there was, you know, my mother definitely she worked that my parents worked very, very hard. You know, I just grew up understanding the value of hard work ethic, you know, and and they worked very hard. Um you know, we were very, I would say definitely middle class, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Did they have to sacrifice financially for for you to live the dream in the early days?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Yeah, I would say more they both worked hard, and and I think my father sacrificed, not that my mother didn't, because she worked incredibly hard, she worked hard as well. But my what my father sacrifice was when I was in my early teens, um, he was in the bank business, worked his way up, and and um, you know, from the back of the behind teller, I can't remember exactly, but he had an opportunity to actually run his own branch, to be the bank branch manager, and he had to go on, he would have had to fly to Sydney to to to train, and then he'd come back and run his own branch, and he goes, Look, I appreciate that. And he's you know, for years and years, six, I don't know, almost ten years, and he goes, 'Look, if I do that, I won't have time for my son's tennis and his training.' So he gave up that which would get him into his next level in the business world. Um, and and instead of that, he bought a car and turned it which you know turned into a taxi and would drive taxis while I would sleep.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

I thought you meant taxing taxiing you around games.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

No, no, he did that as well. Um, you know, but but he he he was a ta you know, he um would uh drive taxi drive a taxi um while I was sleeping, and then he would uh yeah, he would we would do our training in the morning and the afternoon. And like I said, so so he he definitely gave up his career um for my tennis career.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I guess when we talk about things like that, when you've got that professional career, uh, you know, people often you know talk appreciative appreciatively of those sacrifices made by the parents, and you know, I talk about how I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them today. When you were 15, 16, 17, did you kind of appreciate the severity of what he was doing for you?

SPEAKER_02 9:38

I'm not gonna look, I can't be honest and say I always appreciate what my parents did. My number one priority was always family. That's how I grew up. Family came first before anything else, and I'm still the same way, but you don't fully understand until you become a father yourself, a parent. And and and I'm um knock on wood, I'm lucky enough to be a parent of two healthy, amazing kids and have an amazing wife. And when you become a parent and you don't fully realize how it hits you, and and then of course, when you're 15, 16, I mean, you don't even you don't know anything. You think you know a lot more than you do, and and just after living life and going through your tennis career, but like I said, more about becoming a parent, do you realize you know what he gave up, you know, um later on.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

So when did you actually turn pro? Uh how how old are you? Can you can you remember those?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

I want to say 17. 17 just just turned 18 years old, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

So for the guys listening or watching, what who don't know tennis specifically, what what does that look like in terms of I guess you're not walking into Wimbledon for your first prof for your first professional game, you're you're still scratching around for for for little wins for points to get on the uh to get on the ladder.

Ranking Ladder And ATP Points 101

SPEAKER_02 10:56

So look, I what um you know for juniors you you the junior um circuit is incredibly important, but there are a lot of amazing juniors who were number one in the world and never made that transition on the tour. So for me, and thankfully my father understood that for that transition to have any chance of becoming a professional tennis player, you need to have weapons. So it was very important for me to develop those weapons as a junior. And and long story short, I was when I was playing, um, I was 16, actually, I was 16 or 7, just turned 17. So I was uh traveling playing the biggest you know junior tournaments in the world um with Tennis Australia. And I was lucky enough during the uh Wimbledon after I won the semi my semi-final with the boys' uh singles and uh and to make in the final, I had signed a contract with filler, five-year contract. As a as a kid, as a 17-year-old, I I'd signed my my first uh yeah contract with filler, and it's amazing because growing up, my one of the idols I looked up to was Boris Becker, and as a 10-year-old, he wore filler, and um that was one of the biggest brands out there, you know, as far as luxury and that. It was very small, boutique-ish back then, made in Italy, um, very expensive stuff. And and um and like I said, parents worked hard, and one day they bought me, uh whether it was Christmas or my birthday, a filler shirt and a filler shorts. You know, back then it was like sixty dollars for a top, sixty dollars for a bottle, you know, it was$120 for that. And I never took it off to the part where my mum would scream because it stunk. I I would all day I would be in this in my shirt and my cold shirt and shorts, and I would sleep in it and to the time we need to take it off. And so I had this dream, and and I'd sign a contract when I was 17 with Filler for five years. That was my my contract, and then all of a sudden I lost in the final wound. But that was the last junior tournament that I played because we had money to travel. We never had money to travel before.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Um and that money was from the Fila contract.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

That was for the Fila contract, yeah, the sponsorship, my clothing sponsorship. So my father and I started traveling, qualifying for the biggest tournaments in the world where I couldn't, I wasn't good enough to be in the main drawer. My ranking wasn't high enough. So uh again, the quick rundown is tennis, uh professional tennis starts off with satellite league. Now, a satellite league is three three tournaments, small tournaments where you have to do really well. And if you do well, you qualify for the masters event. And if you happen to lose first round the masters, you get one point. One point gives you a ranking of 1500 in the world.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Oh, so you so you've not earned a point until you've reached the.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah, so you have to start with satellites. Now, um, I'm just telling you how it works, but I didn't play the satellites. So that's a satellite league, and then the next thing is a challenger. Now, a challenger, there's 50 plus H, 75, 100, and 125. 50 plus H means hospitality. So 50 is if you win the tournament, it's a one-week tournament, if you win that tournament, you get 50 ATP points. You know, um, 75 is 75 ATP points, 125, which is biggest challenge, is 125 ATP points.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

And that's 125 of the same kind of points you said you'd get one point for all.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Exactly, exactly. Right. And then there's ATP tournaments. ATP, the smallest tournament, which is a big tournament, but it's 250, a level of a 250 event. And if you win that, of course, it's 250, 250 points. Then you have a 500 series event, one of the biggest tournaments in the world, and that's 500 points. And then next level is a is a masters event. You win that masters event's a 1,000 event, okay, which is Monte Carlo, Indian Wells, Miami, and all the Rome. And then you have Grand Slans, where if you win, it's 2,000 points. So it's that's how it that's how it works.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And to put that into context, so saying that you know one point would get you a ranking of about 1,500.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

You'd yeah, you'd be almost just under 2,000, yes, over a thousand.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

If you're in the top 10 in the world, yeah, what what kind of points?

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Top 10 in the world, like I don't want to say, but I want to say top 10 in the world, you're gonna have to be around 2,200 points right now, 2,500 points.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

And kind of carrying those points. And then and then do you do you do you lose them at the end of the year or the end of the ship?

Beating Sampras And Match Psychology

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So when you play a tournament, if I were to win a tournament this this week, and there's a tournament in Dubai, and I win it, it's a 500 event. There's my 500 points. Now that doesn't come off until Dubai 2025. Okay. Or the next year. So that carries on until one whole year and it comes off to that exact uh calendar year. So anyway, so I started um playing qualifying. Now I didn't have points, but I would sign in, I'll get in qualifying. And qualifying, you normally have to win three matches in order to get in the main draw of an ATP tournament. So I didn't play the satellite events. I um take it back quickly before then. Sorry. So um when I was 16 years old, I did play a satellite tournament in Australia, and I um which I ended up winning. And that the one in Australia got me, the the winner of that satellite tournament got you a wild card in the Australian Open. So the first wild card I had when I was I was 16 years old, but that was before the the the the the uh when I got my uh filler contract. Right. So then um, you know, by that time it was 15. I got a ranking, I want to say I was 900 and something, I had 50 points because I won at Satellite Lake. If you win, it's you get 50 points. So so I was around 900, or and then I got this like 750. So I started after I just turned uh I turned eight 18 in November that year when I got my contract. And uh, long story short, I I qualified and lost in the final of a 250 ATP tournament to Jim Courier. So my ranking went to like 200 in the world, and then I did lost in a semi-final of another tournament, and then at the end of the year I played, I lost in a final of uh um Japan Indoors, and then the next year, next week a final of Kwa Lumpur indoors. So my ranking, I started off in 900 in the world, ended up at 32 when I was 18. Right. So that's pretty much how the career started, you know, how the career started. That one year was a huge year um where where it got me to playing any tournament in the world, you know, from from 900 or something to 32.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

You mention uh the Japanese one, the you know, the the uh lumper the one and I guess you you you mention those um like like you remember them if if if they if they were yesterday. Do you look back on on your career and and can you remember pretty much every tournament, every chronol chronology of events, you know, points, key key games.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

I I'm not that person that does. Like for instance, Andre Agassi, he'll remember junior matches, he'll remember the set, he'll remember the the games lost, what he won, who he played. I'm not that person, but key moments of my career I do specifically remember. Uh it's just that they were so important because um there were huge, you know, million-dollar million-dollar um tournament, indoor tournament in Tokyo, was one of the biggest indoor tournaments in the world. And I had, you know, I beat Stefan Edberg second round, um uh Krychek in the semifinal and lost to Michael Chang in the final. And then next week I lost to um Marcelo Rios in the final, and you know, and then all of a sudden going to 32. There were those were difficult um moments in my tennis career. So I I remember those weeks. Um, not so much the score, but but definitely remember, you know, because it it changed my it changed my life, you know. I've got mean signing that contract changed all my life, but but that all of a sudden got me into not only any playing any tournament in the whole world, but actually being seated in certain tournaments as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

In terms of key matches, I was obviously do doing a bit of research for this, and uh yeah, I guess what's what the internet thinks are key matches, you know, might might not be what you are, but I just I want to mention some of these to you and you know to tell tell tell me if they're they are of s of significance to you. I mean, the first one that came up is the 1998 US Open Um against uh against Pat Rafter, talking about it being a significant moment um because it was your kind of coming you know coming of age moment, particularly beating Sampras on on that journey.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah, I I think that one was because well that was one of them because it was my first Grand Slam final. But I think what got me into the tennis world in front of everyone's eyes was the people that are in their tennis, you know, word gets out of the young kid, 18-year-old Aussie, you know, he's 18, he ended up 32 in the world. So so people start talking about you that's more into their tennis and know everything that's going on. But but that next Australian Open, when I just turned 19, I played Sampras in a third round of a night that night match. He was number one in the world dominating. I was a night just turned 19-year-old Melbourne boy, and I beat him in straight sets that night match. So that quickly put me in in the eyes of that tennis world, beating Sampras, who legend of our game, and like I said, was dominating number one in the world and a teenager on his home hometown.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

How much older than you is, Peter? As in had you been watching him as a kid?

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, he won what is his first grand slam? It was US Open when he was 19. I mean, yeah, I looked up and not only being, you know, background having Green Greek descent, like I was, I was a uh, you know, Australian kid with a Greek background, and he was an American with a Greek background. But not only that, it was how he played the game. His his you know, serving volume, that huge serve, that big forehand, but but serving voling as well, and and kind of doing everything from the back and coming into the net. He was someone that I looked up to and and admired, of course. Um, and so that was a big thing for me.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

And and how how does that feel? Um, I guess in general, you know, when when you play play against you know, number ones or you know, some of these big names, but also particularly uh as as someone that you looked up to you know before you were pro yourself to to walk onto court against someone like that. Where's where's the psychology at? Where where's the mindset at? You know, are you extra nervous because of who it is, or do you just go blind to that point at that point and this is just an opponent? You know, I'm gonna go on there and I'm gonna do the business, whether I'm playing Pete Sampras or Joe Bloggs.

Davis Cup Pressure And National Pride

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Well, first of all, I'm a teenager playing against number one player in the world. No one expects me to win. Let's let's be honest and start there. So you're not putting pressure on yourself. You're saying, okay, let's go out. I can afford to be aggressive and to go out there and go for my shots. I'm always I've always been that player that that I've kind of live and die by my own sword, the blade. And and I've, you know, I've I've I had a big game, and so I had weapons and I could dictate the play on my terms, you know, with the game that I had. Um even when I was at 19, I've, you know, with the serve, and I had I can kind of take the game out of someone's hands, especially when I served. Now, when he served, it's a different story because he had one of the best serves of all time. Um, but I rem I specifically remember, of course, I was incredibly nervous, you know, trying to stomach food, and you know, I had needed energy and you need to eat, um, walking out that center court, but it was there moments you dream about as well. So I remember walking down the corridor and he's in front of me, and I'm watching, you know, Sampras walking out, and I'm following Sampras walk out on the center court of the Australian Open. I was a kid, I used to watch matches, pay to watch matches on that court, you know what I mean, get autographs at that tournament and on that court. So I remember him wal walking in front of me, and as I'm walking, I'm like, oh, I'm following, you know, going down this hallway, you're seeing the past champions, the names on the side, and you know, and you're walking down, and I'm like, oh, I'm following Pete. You know, we're going centre court. And I remember all of a sudden I because I'm checking him out from top to bottom, you know, as he's walking in front of me. And I remember saying to myself, you know, F this guy. You know, go out and beat him. Don't give him too much respect. There's a difference of having respect for someone, you always want to have respect for your opponent, but don't give him too much respect where you're like start giving yourself now, oh, it's okay. He's number one in the world, oh, no one's expecting me. No, you're giving yourself out, telling yourself it's okay to lose. You know, so I didn't didn't want that mindset. I've never had that mindset, and I certainly didn't want that mindset. I just said, F this guy, let's beat him, you know. Um, but not in an arrogant way, but just you know, don't go out there just to play, to be the other guy on the other court, go out there to win. And um, it was a special night, and uh, and I played great.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

And um, how was the score on that? And what when when did you start to get ahead and think I might be in with a chance on?

Wimbledon 2003 Run And Federer Final

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Well, look, as I said, the thing about my game is I always expected to hold serve. I had even at I just turned 19, but I had one of the biggest serves out there on the tour easily. Um and and and the ground strokes to back it up, and I also felt comfortable coming to the net and serve and volume as well. So I knew that I should hold serve that we're pretty much gonna come down to tiebreakers against him. And whenever I get an opportunity, if it's a second serve, he misses it. I'm gonna chip and charge his backhand, I'm gonna attack his backhand because he had, you know, number one in the world, but he you can get to his backhand. His backhand was his Achilles heel where you can put pressure on him. Um and I thought, okay, I'm gonna attack his backhand, chip and charge, go for my shots, serve big, hit my forehand, you know, wherever I want. But if I have an opportunity, I'm gonna chip and charge and attack that backhand. If he passes me, too good. But that's my game plan. And holding serve, it's on serve, it's on serve, 5'4, uh and a uh 5'4 to mean his his his serving, and then missing some first serves. All of a sudden, second serve, a chat attack in his backhand, love 15, I can't remember love 30, and I had an opening. And and I broke him 6'4 in the first set. Um, the second set went down to a tiebreaker, huge tie break. He was up mini break, I think 5'2. I clawed it back, and then it ended up being 11-all. Um, ended up winning that point, and then served served a big first serve to 11-all in the tiebreaker.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

In the tiebreaking guy, yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

I was going back and forth where I had set point, he had set point, and then we're kind of the big serving was going back and forth, and then it was 11 all where he came in and made him play return and hit a passing shot. I I actually specifically remember points in that match, and then he he missed a volley, and then it's the first time I got a chance to serve for the set on my serve, um, and then got a big, big first serve in, and all of a sudden, two sets to love, you know, two sets to love against Pete against these players is a complete different story than one set all.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

And what what does that then do to your psyche and and you know potentially then translate into how your game changes in that third set?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Well, my belief, look, my belief is it was always there, but like I said, that was a huge different thing from being two sets to love than then one set all. And still, you know, he's come back many times from two sets of love and grand slams to win grand slams and matches and grand slams. So it was like, okay, back in and again, and then that third set got to another tiebreaker, you know, no breaks. There was one break the whole match, and I was at that five four um first set. Um, but I just got out to early lead and just uh held on to it, and I and I ended up, I think it was 7-4. I want to say, that the that tiebreaker in the third, and I won in straight sets.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I mean, you just talked about Pete coming back, you know, from two sets down uh in in in other matches. I mean, one one thing that's uh you know often spoken about in sport, particularly tennis, is is how you need to treat each point as its own point. And if you forget the last point, the last set, the last games, easier said than done. You know, especially you know, especially if you're that person who's who's lost the last points or lot lost the last couple of sets. How do you train yourself to you know to to block out the I guess the bad points that have been happening and the fact that you know you you're if you're that person who's two sets down, you're already playing off off such a disadvantage.

The Subscribe Moment

SPEAKER_02 26:51

That comes with experience, just time on the court, you know, there's so many matches in your junior career that that happens. But you know, from what you said, you know, we're speaking about life and stuff like that. I I believe, my God, there's no greater teacher in life like than tennis, like a game of tennis. It's so similar to life because exactly what you're going on now, you I could be playing a match where I've done many times where I'm cruising, I'm killing this guy, and then you just your intensity drops and you just take it easy and you think, oh, I've got this one. And all of a sudden you're in a locker room and you've lost. I'm like, how did I lose that match? Other times where you're getting killed out there and you're just struggling, I'm like, just try and get one point, just hold on to my service game, just stay in there, make sure, let him serve out the match, but but you know, just one more point, one more game, and then you end up in a locker room and you've won a match. So, you know, tennis is so much like life where it's just taught me so much where just keep on fighting. You never know what's gonna happen, just take one point at a time, one step at a time, and and you could be injured, and you're just thinking of just hanging in there, and and then you end up in a locker room, and then you get a train to take care of your body, and then the next day it feels better, and you end up, you know, you're trying to figure out to get through that first round, and then all of a sudden, end of that week, you've won the tournament, you're holding up that trophy. There's there's a lot of weeks I've had like that where you're struggling the first round, the first match, and it's a tough match, and you're struggling with with playing good tennis, and you're struggling for the last few months, and and things just slowly come together, you know, one day at a time, one match at a time, one game at a time, one point at a time, and then you're holding up that trophy. And and tennis is so so similar to life like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

How does the crowd feature in your play in terms of just hearing those people cheering for you? Does that help you and move you on? Is it there a fear factor of you know making mistakes in front of other 20, 30,000 people in the stadium?

Injuries, Surgeries, And Microfracture

SPEAKER_02 28:48

No, see, I I've always loved crowd. You know, I think the bigger crowd that I played against, the more relaxed I was and the more I enjoyed it. Um but playing at home, like you know, having like a Davis Cup match, home match, and the crowds going nuts on your side, that is incredible. There's a lot of times when I've used a crowd's energy to get me through a match. You know, you you're you're exhausted, you're physically exhausted, you're mentally exhausted. Um, and you use situations like that to get you through a match, you know, and have definitely got me through matches and have won me matches. And then, but there's also the other side where I've played Davis Cup matches away, you know, against and and then there's 15,000 people against you, and there's maybe 20 people for you. And and I've used that in my benefit to block it out and to make me stronger and get me through those matches as well, you know, so it can work both ways.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Talking about Davies Cup, and I guess you know, still on the um the topic of significant matches. I mean, your 1999 Davies Cup final against France was was was one that was mentioned as as a significant game where I think you um helped end uh the country's 13-year Davies Cup drought. You you beat uh Cedric Pireline in four sets and stole the title for Australia. I mean, d does that feature as a significant game for you?

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Absolutely, because that was 99 and the finals was against France, and we're in Nice and we're playing on clay. It was indoor clay, a very slow clay, and and they were definitely the favorites. Um and uh so we'd we'd go in and that was one of those things where I'd go in and you know it was kind of an up and down year. It was a good year for me. Um, but I remember just, you know, we got there, of course, almost two weeks early, ten days early. We're training on the clay, getting ready, and and uh, and my training sessions weren't good. I think I was just putting a lot of pressure on myself. I was expecting expecting perfection for myself on the practice squad before, you know, Davis Cup final. And and I remember I was just up tired and broke a lot of rackets during the practice week because I just was nervous, you know, and I'm and and it was amazing because I got all that out of me. And then when we shifted to go to the indoor where we had two, three days to get ready before we played, everything clicked for me. And I just zoned in, and and the first match was uh uh Sebastian Grosjon, where I beat him in straight sets, you know, I think and Leighton lost his singles, Woody's won the doubles, and then I beat Peeling in four sets to secure the win for Australia, and and that was one where it was a huge mine, 17,000, 18,000 people. They built this stadium, indoor stadium, and we we had a lot of the Aussie fanatics, as you call them. We had a small section there, there were maybe a couple of hundred, and they were making a lot of noise, but against 16,000, you know, the French crowd where and also where on on certain certain areas right next to the front where I used to go, you know, you'd go and grab the towel or get the ball from the ball boy, they had those horns, you know, where you press the button and the horns and they'd lean over and put the lawn close to me, you know, brun, like right next to me. And I remember I was so focused that I just blocked it all out to the point where when I won, I almost didn't realize it was match point, you know, and it was um one of those moments that I I will never forget um the first Davis Cup because there were two things growing up as an Aussie tennis player that you dreamt of. That was representing your country, putting on the green and gold and winning a Davis Cup, and winning Wimbledon, playing on the grass and the centre quarter of Wimbledon. They're two things that you grew up that were like that that came naturally for for any uh uh for uh any dream for an Australian tennis player.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

In terms of Wimbledon, you you played Federer in the final in 2003. Yes. Um where where he he beat he beat you. Was that your only Wimbledon final?

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Yes, yeah. So US Open Final 99 and Wimbledon final 2003. That was yeah, that was a big one because I had close. That was my definitely um the best Grand Slam. It was very consistent, always quarterfinals, matches, and and that uh never gone past the quarterfinals. One year, I think it was actually it was 99. I was playing Sampras in the quarterfinals. I had won the first set and I had breakpoint the second set and had torn my cartilage. That's being the up and down of finishing off with with a Davis Cup win was amazing. But um the 2003 was incredibly important and huge one because in 2001 I had uh my third knee surgery on my knee, and they said I'll never play professional tennis again. So I was out for nine months, you know, wheelchair, wheelchair for three months, and then crutches for a couple of months before it started training slowly. Um, so that was a big year getting back into shape fitness-wise and getting on the court again.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

And that 2003 final that was in the year of your comeback.

Recovery, Mindset, And Wheelchair Training

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yeah, that was that was one of the biggest years I had because I finished, I was almost 100 in the world, and I finished that year eight in the world. Um, and and that year, and I I don't know, I was unseated, definitely unseated. I want 80 something I might have been, I'm not sure. And and but every time I got in the grass, I just felt incredibly comfortable. Um, it was my favorite surface. Um, you know, I had one Queens before Wimbledon. It was just um my favorite month of the year, you know, um something I looked forward to um every year. And um, you know, I had got to the final and and I had actually beaten, I beaten um Federer a month before that uh at in the German Open Um in the round of 16. And then playing him in the in in the uh final. That was his first Grand Slam final. Um it's not like he was unknown, he was three or four in the world, you know, um one of the best players in the world, and and and we know the player he is, the natural player he is, and he was just all so beautiful, you know, to watch and tough to play against because he had that whole, you know, from the back, from the you know, at the net, his beautiful slice, his volleys, and mixed it up with his with his um, you know, back of the court hitting as well, and just the way he glided around the court. But also that was his first grand slam as well. And and you know, I ended up losing to him in straight sets. It was uh, I think two tiebreakers or uh six, seven, six, six, three, seven, six. But that first tiebreaker was huge because I had a I was up a mini break, you know. So um if I'd won that first set, I think things could have been different. But um just momentum was a huge thing, and it was just a long two weeks. Um remember I was on the court on the court six hours more than him. I played a couple of five setters, I beat Andre in five sets and ran a 16, and then the quarterfinals was down two sets to love against Pop, came back to win. So it was just a long two weeks, and unfortunately, just couldn't get it done, you know. And um, I was very proud of myself, obviously, but but but man, did it hurt, you know, to go all that way. And because it's the reality is no one remembers number two, no one remembers the runner up, and to watch him, you know, walk around and and go up in the box to clog his um family and coach and his team and watch him um lift up that trophy, walking and doing that lap around the court was was tough, but um, but proud moment as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

How quick do you get over it?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

I don't know, you look it um I I got over it, you know. It it hurts. You I think as an athlete, you learn to have short memory for certain things.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

What was your strategy? I mean, like on a night like that, do you do you go out drinking with your mates and trying to forget it? Do you lock yourself in a darker room?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

I had a I had a dinner. Look, it it I'll I I hurt in the locker room and and I hurt after that, but you you go out and and have a a dinner with with my my friends and and um and uh like I said, you you you know you want to celebrate, but not much of a celebration, but still, like I said, if as a 10-year-old kid you had told me that you're gonna get to a final of a grant of Wimbledon and walk on that that last Sunday, you know, I'd sign that that contract in a split second, you know what I mean? But um so like I said, mixed emotions. It's like now when I and I go there every year because I play the Legends event and I do stuff at during during Wimbledon there with sponsors and stuff like that. I s I always look at that, I always look up at that 2003 year and just go, you know. Um always, I always look up at that 2003 year. Um it's uh I'm always gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

So let me hit you with a mad stat. You are probably not subscribed. Seriously, 58% of the people who listen to this podcast every single week do not hit that subscribe button. That is more than half of you. So let's fix this right now. The goal here is super simple. We grow the podcast, we bring in bigger guests, and we give you even more no bullshit and given size to level up your business and to level up your life. And business is that smart goals and specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and time-band. Well, here's one for you. Let's get about 58% and welcome about 50% in the next three months. So please do me a quick favour. If this podcast has ever given you one good idea, one piece of advice that's helped you or helped your business, then hit that subscribe button. It takes a second, it costs nothing, and it means that I can keep bringing you even bigger and better guests, giving you even bigger and better insights. Come on, do it now. I'll wait. Done. Perfect. Great choice. Let's grow this together. Let's talk about injury. I mean, obviously you mentioned that that was a big year because of of uh of the comeback, and that was your third knee surgery at that point. And how how serious? I mean, I guess any surgery is serious, but how serious had the first two been prior to the third? Uh, you know, when you were told that you'd never play professional tennis again?

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Well, the first one was that 99 match. That was my first one where I was, like I said, quarterfinal Sampras, playing, it was a beautiful day, not a cloud in the sky, just playing great tennis, won the first set 6-3. It was one all, had break point, um, and had hit a backhand like I've done 2,000 times off the back foot, like I've done in my career. And felt something, but didn't really know what had happened until break point. He had served the big serve, and I went to return and lunch. And I'm like, oh that felt something a little weird. And he ended up holding serve, and I called the trainer, and the trainer came and was like, Look, I don't know, I've done something, I've you know, I felt something, but um he goes, I get lie down your back, and he was just stretching around trying to work out what was going on. And he goes, Okay, stand up again. And what had happened was when I'd went to stand up, I had torn my meniscus, and when he was checking my leg, what was going on, that piece that I had torn off had folded into my joint. So every time I'd step on, it would just be the most excruciating pain. So I I literally I couldn't put any weight on on my left leg. I ended up shaking hands within 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

I knew I couldn't even Oh, literally for from when the training.

Money, Managers, And Costly Lessons

SPEAKER_02 39:56

From yeah, and I just I couldn't, you know, because because of that. that meniscus had folded into my joint. And I ended up being just helped off the court and I'd grow and and I'd carried my um bag and I just remember in the locker room just I was in the I was on the um massage table and it was a small locker room back then and P was next to me getting stretched and I just remember I was just just crying. I started crying, you know and um also crying because I didn't know what I have done crying because just the the situation and and the and the opportunity I had lost you know being you know being up a set with with Sampras um you know and and just playing great tennis and feeling good. So that was number one. But a meniscus tear is a very quick repair. I was back on the court I had my surgery I was walk I walked out you know you you stand up right after the surgery just to make sure everything's good and oh yeah so I know how quick did you get that surgery after after that uh that I was on the court probably two weeks later slowly hitting you know oh it's literally that quick we're gonna yeah but but not playing a tournament two weeks later but but uh two weeks later slowly hitting and doing rehab um and then everything was fine until at the end of 2000 where I had a great year and I could have I was close to finishing the top ten and I remember I had just lost in the final of the Paris Indoors and to Maratsaf in 76th in the fifth and and I had one tournament to go to the Swedish Swedish indoors event and I thought if I did well I had I would make the top eight you know um event into the EA to be champions um and then the night before the match I remember was with my coach then Peter McNamara and we ended up going to a restaurant and I went to run across the road after that and um and I almost collapsed something and something happened and I and I woke up to from a warm-up and I couldn't I tried warming up my match and there was just this pain in my left knee and I had done it again. Same another minus same same issue so I come back and had and I was on the court eight days later ten days later I was on the court again and I played a tournament a month and a half later after showing open um it was a Memphis indoors a big indoor tournament I was seated number two samples number one and I win that tournament but I didn't realise I'd come back too early and I had damage done damage and then I um ended up playing Miami tournament I had beaten Chang and then I woke up my knees like a balloon and then I ran a 16 I'll play Federer and then I'm like God I I I don't know what's I know something's wrong but I gotta play so I had put a something I'd put a a a sleeve over my knee so no one would see that it was like a balloon and I lost to him in three and had an MRI that night and then the doctor was the Miami Heat orthopedic surgeon from the Miami Heat doctor um the housewell team and he goes you've got to come in 6 a.m we've got to you've we you need surgery you know um your minis you've done your meniscus again so I'd woken up from the surgery and then he when he when I woke up and he goes look once we got in there it wasn't as simple as that and I actually ended up having a microfracture surgery. So microfracture surgery is is when the bone above your you know leg has um you have cartilage around your bone but that had worn off so it's bone on bone so that to drill a hole in the bone and then that hole um it's you have to be non-weight bearing that's why I was in a wheelchair for three months and crutches. What's supposed to happen is that hole has to bleed and that blood ends up hardening up which hopefully turns into like a cartilage like protection around the joint. So I was one of the um they had six surgeons in there because they haven't had done this surgery a lot you know only a handful of surgeries have been done in the past like this um and the and another doctor said like you'll never play professional tennis again and then my doctor at what point did you hear those words? Uh when I woke up okay when I woke up but the doctor he was pretty good pretty positive he goes look don't worry about what that's I believe with you know focus on our rehab um and and let's just see how it goes so I ended up doing a rehab with the Miami heat basketball team with him for months um I was living in Miami and I was getting synthetic cartilage injections in my knee and yeah it was at the time where I was incredibly depressed because I was in a wheelchair um and I was that kid where he can't sit still I would be on a jet ski I'd ride motorbikes I I I was a little bit of an adrenaline junkie snowboarded I just couldn't sit still and just the fact of being in on on my wheelchair would just um mentally it was getting to me. So one day I remember waking up and my dad would end up getting trying me to do things he got a Tai Chi master to come in and I'll do tai chi for my mind like in the wheelchair and stuff like that and I'd woken up and he'd sawn off the armrests of the wheelchair and he goes okay we're going on the court and we're gonna start hitting balls. So I remember I ended up training and was hitting balls. I could hit forehand so I ended up just doing training while I was in the wheelchair.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

I mean is that beneficial for you because I mean I would imagine hitting a forehand from a wheelchair is materially different from hitting 100% but it was more my dad did that for my mind to keep me just not thinking about the wheelchair and just thinking about getting stronger and getting better.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

So everything he did I was doing tai chi I was doing meditation um you know someone I was doing you know rehab every day I had someone come to my house every single day and then when I got out of the wheelchair I had a person come to my house and we did 30 minutes of yoga 30 minutes of Pilates and it massage me for now every day. I did everything I possibly could to get myself back on the court.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

And how how did you maintain motivation or find motivation and focus because it makes even though you know you've heard from the first doctor that you won't play professional tennis again. Yeah the next guy's saying look don't worry we're gonna focus on rehab but yeah I would imagine in inside you think he's probably saying that to make me feel better you know honestly the best thing is hearing doctors tell me that I'll never play professional tennis again.

Real Estate Mistakes And Overextension

SPEAKER_02 46:06

I'm that guy that you tell me I can't do something oh well that's how it was as a kid you know they said you you as a kid you're not gonna make it and and and I'm that person the best thing you can do for me is tell me that I can't do something that if you want to help me that's kind of how um that's what I wanted to hear. And that's something that drove me every day. You know and and the fact also too is is having people around me very small circle. But also this has happened at the same time I had friends that disappeared. I had friends that I thought were super close that were I had this guy who was next door literally my next door neighbor that I thought was one of my closest friends. He did not come to my house once in those six months. Because he thought you might not be the famous market well because my ranking dropped because I wasn't playing tennis I wasn't traveling you know I wasn't getting him tickets to watch tournaments matches that happened as well and that was the best thing could have happened to me as well I had people that I knew of my friends who you know one of my closest friends now who would come to my house five, six days a week or I ended up bringing friends and I'd play doubles on the court in my wheelchair you know and I realized who were who became family to me who really you know loved me and who were my friends and a lot of things that hurt me during those times that were tough for me but ended up being a blessing um you know and and so that that's another thing as well.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

And how long did it take um to you did go on court again uh professionally nine nine months later I was on the court playing my first tournament nine and a half months later and how how did you feel in that first match man?

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Made amazing you know uh the first match I won second match I lost in the second round but just I just there was no fear that oh I'm gonna step on my leg funny no no that was for the longest time after that but but no no when I was on the court I'm I'm that person that I to be honest I'm fearless like I like I did a lot of stupid stuff with my motorcycles and fast guys where it's you know I was lucky not to kill myself to be honest with you I just had no fear I had that thing where you got to a point and you knew you had to slow down on something and it was a wall where I and I just wanted to go faster. That's how I was with my life to be honest with you with everything I did. And I just didn't know I knew when I'm on the court and I promised myself that I was not going to rush from rehab because I had done that before. So I I knew that once I got on the court I was strong trust me trust my body you're ready you've done the right thing just go uh and that's where I was let's talk about money when did you first start to you know earn earn good money when I was 17 years old when I signed from that failure multi-million dollar contract fulfill it that that that was multi multi-million dollar by yeah look I'm that kid where I never even now different story now I'll look at it in a different way but I was never motivated with money I left a lot of money on the table millions of dollars because I didn't feel like doing something because he wasn't passion I wasn't passionate about something like what are you like like like an event sponsors events events sponsors signing with signing with another um signing deals racket deals clothing deals I said no to you know what I mean why because because you genuinely uh preferred the the the racket or the kit that was it the the lower paying deal yeah yeah um just with other sponsors you know going to an event or or signing dealing with a company to sign something that that'll I was never motivated if if you know some stuff and looking back too look the reality is ignorance of a just a stupid kid as well not understanding like for instance there was something where uh an event where I'm like I I I just you know what I just want to go snowboard I just want to go with my best friend and grab grab a helicopter and go snowboard and it didn't matter what it cost because that's what I wanted to do and and and like I said not because I worked very hard for my money but just because if I wanted to do something and I was passionate about I didn't and it didn't worry about money whether it be doing something for my family was the same thing you know um and and I just put life and my family and life experience as my priority even before tennis to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Who would advise you about money in those days?

SPEAKER_02 50:21

I mean did you have a manager I didn't I didn't have a I I wish I wish I there's certain things I regret in my life but but that that I wish I do better. But but there are the other things now that have made me stronger and put me in a better position now because of the mistakes I've made in the past and without a doubt some of the biggest mistakes I made were the the finance side because you have to understand understand something. As a professional athlete you've got one job and that's to get on the court at your peak physically and mentally and just play. And you have other people to do all that so you don't have to worry about nothing and just go there and hit the ball which is what you've done I feel like for all my life so you put people in position that you hope would take care of that. Now I regret and there's nothing to blame of anyone but I regret not asking questions not asking questions about certain things for instance you let's keep the the the numbers simple you make a million dollars I made a million dollars oh it's uh million dollars in my bank account it's not simple as that if you make a million dollars the million dollars not in your bank account tax take what depending where it is almost close to 30 40% you know depending if you can get it down great let's say 40 the agent they make their percentage you'd be lucky to get you know maybe you got 50% of that you know but in my mind I'm like I got a million dollars I can spend a million dollars you know what I mean that's just the reality is and and and not asking questions about that not that I spent I think I definitely got to a stage where if I did things I just did it and not asked questions and then all of a sudden you know you get injured the money's not coming in but you're still certain used to a certain lifestyle doing a certain thing you know what I mean things like that.

Forced Retirement And Depression

SPEAKER_00 52:08

But do you think you just did the things anyway because you weren't money motivated and you thought well listen I I don't care about the the money I want to do the things I want to do or was it the fact that you think this will last forever because I think No definitely the first one.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

I'm not that one that this will last forever and and my my my mind didn't work like that to be honest with you. Now there were times thinking okay that oh and you hear it later on like oh just so you know you're not make you know you're being injured but and again as a professional athlete for me I knew that it's okay I'll be back at my peak. I know I'm gonna I'm not thinking okay for a rainy day just in case because I can't think anything negative it was only like I'm that's fine I'll be back I'm gonna be stronger than ever I'm gonna be playing you know what I mean like I I would not let anything negative enter my mind I couldn't you know um it was I was always an incredibly positive person and I just didn't want to think anything negative or worst case scenario.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Are there any particular key um spending events or crazy crazy things that you look back and think no look I I I loved cars.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

I still in love cars but now it's like okay what's the point of getting this car? Can I fit in at number one? Can my whole family can I enjoy it with my whole family? Does it make sense with my lifestyle what I do there's a certain I look at things a certain way now you know whereas before how fast is it this and that you know I didn't there's just me if there's two seats I didn't care there's another person I can take along right so when I bought cars I lost money on cars yes I'm not gonna mess around cars weren't you know I didn't make money on cars I certainly lost money on cars but they're not the ones that I got in trouble that hurt me. The actual things that hurt me were actually real estate which is crazy because I thought that real estate is something that's solid that you know you know what I mean sure and these were real estate investment deals or things for yourself. Yeah for myself were buying another home or having or even even um a commercial real estate and I again didn't ask questions um thinking you know I can't hurt myself and and also it was bad timing too so you know there was one was real estate and then and then overextending and then being injured and then 2000 and then um I think the first one was what when when was the first one 2000 was 2002 was was with with stock market you know was it was it was there one 2002 2000 I'm a bit young there was one anyone there but but there was one but um you know and then uh the the big one was 2007 to the that one that one really because I overextended myself there with commercial for instance there was one where I grew up when I worked really hard with my dad I would train the morning in this area Liston Tennis Club in Williamstown and then I trained really hard and my dad would reward me with um an ice cream a scoop of ice cream across the road and it was an ice cream shop there. Now that building it overlooked the city it was beautiful overlooking the the harbour of Melbourne and the city of Melbourne and that came up for sale it was like three bedroom upstairs a beautiful townhouse and downstairs was the ice cream shop. Oh my God I'm buying this ice cream I didn't care what it costs I'm buying it like I got a chance to buy the building of that ice cream that I used to have for years as a reward would get an ice cream you know what I mean so I thought this is it's meant to be like you know and it's commercial property you know I had bought I I just said for uh my best friend was putting and I stayed I stood in the building next door I didn't want to be there people to know so I just like keep going keep going whatever it is just have your hand up. Now I didn't realize for instance that the guy who sold it his daughter was was had the ice cream shop and he had extended the contract for an extra three years but instead of paying five thousand dollars a month to more than cover and have money in the pocket he ended up doing a deal with a three 3000 a month which wouldn't even cover the cost of the payments you know what I mean yeah and then there was a slab leak which ended up there it was a whole mess. But anyway it was things like that and other things of of of res residential properties um just overextending and then getting injured and not being able to play that that you know hurt me at one stage you know that ended up being amazing you know great lessons and you know do you still have any of that real estate today? No but I have other real estate you know and again I think being partners with my best friend who's been in industry for a long time who works hard and is very smart business guy of of putting yourself situations to work with someone who can guide you in that situation and you can learn from what was a great thing and just learning from my mistakes learning to ask questions now with my accountant I sit down I go to him you know I sit down and I we go through every little thing and I ask stupid questions but it's okay I just want to know everything before I leave that office to know um you know what could I do what could I have done what does this mean what does that mean so like I said the the mistakes I've made in the past are benefiting me now and I'm and I'm a stronger position I've ever been.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

When did retirement start for you?

Rebuilding With Routine, Books, 75 Hard

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Well unfortunately I never got to choose retirement it it it um it happened for me because I ended up having six knee surgeries and six yeah I got three in each knee and my last year on the tour my last I stopped at 29 because of knee surgeries so and because of knees I I couldn't continue so my last tour my last year on the tour was 2006.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

And how how how did you feel about that? Did you feel robbed robbed too soon?

SPEAKER_02 57:33

You know what I was at a stage where dealing with all the surgeries the other and then all of a sudden it started with my right knee I had fallen out of love with the sport and and I just was so exhausted because coming back from an injury you can deal with it you know physically you know what it takes. It was more on the mental side you know the mental side that was really hard and and I just got to a place where I knew what it would take and and more because now it's my fourth surgery fifth surgery and I and I couldn't commit I just didn't have it in me you know and I just fell out in love with a sport that I I was in love with since I was 10 years old. And when you when you knew that that final match was coming yeah I mean you know was it wasn't even it was like it was um sorry to cut you off but it was uh Hopman Cup it was during the Hopman Cup it was the January it was like the second match of the year it happened and I didn't even know but then it ended up being my last match oh okay so so it wasn't like my knee's a knack and I'm gonna have to tone it down you you you did your knee in that match and you knew you couldn't come back after that. Well no no I didn't know after that I tried come had a surgery and I through practice even as I was going pushing my practice session practice matches my knee kept on swelling and I felt like I had another surgery and I said actually you need another meniscus surgery and then I did the same thing as my training doing that you know and all of a sudden almost a year and they I went in again and I was like it's a meniscus and then third surgery ended up being another microfracture surgery in in the wheelchair and then that's where I I kind of it was it was one of the toughest moments it was I was going through a very tough stage in my in my in my life then um but the good news is is because my priority was all always family before tennis the transition was not that stage was not difficult because I had a such a strong support of of my family and the people that I love around me.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Did you have any idea what would be coming next?

SPEAKER_02 59:33

I mean was that was that fear no I that was like I said that was a tougher stage um of my career I've ever been with because other things started happening where um I went through fear I went through just anger was a there was a number of emotions that kind of I I went through stages you know depression um as well not knowing what to do um again being scared Being angry. There's a lot of emotions there. And and and it took months, but eventually, um, you know, I remember one stage of what especially when I was in that third surgery and I was um bound and you know and watch or in bed, I didn't leave I didn't see daylight. I I covered the shades. I remember I I I didn't go out once, even when I could walk, I didn't leave the house probably for like three and a half months. I was like in depression, like um struggling big time. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

What got you through the depression?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

I remember my my mom saying, just can you please go for a walk outside? You know, and I I just went for a walk, took the dog for a walk, and it was I I went out, it was a blue cloud, it was a blue sky, and it was this it was a beautiful day, and I just was as I was walking over looking the water, I'm like, it's gonna be okay, you know? It was like just going outside realizing that life is beautiful, it's gonna be okay, I don't know what's next, but whatever's next, I'm gonna deal with it, and it's gonna be okay. Because it was also a lot of stuff that's uh where I got myself into trouble financially, and that's why I was super scared too, because I'd taken care of my family now, I was like, I don't know, I don't even know how I can take care of my family. So there was a mixed emotion where I went through where it was a very difficult stage where I ended up being a blessing, but it was at that time incredibly difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

And in terms of the the fear around money, so at that point of of the forced retirement and uh and and not know where the future lied, where we financially I mean, had you had you done most of your money and buying it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Yeah, because I've overextended myself and and and then I had to sell, so I I had I had lost everything to be honest with you. Oh really? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Obviously there was fear. I mean, was the regret? Did you feel everything?

Fatherhood, Values, And Daily Habits

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

That's why I said about the mixed emotion. It was first thing was being scared, then it was self-pity, then it was anger, blaming others for where I was at. You know what I mean? And then no, sorry, sorry, it was it was being scared, number one, then anger, and then that's where I ended up going for a walk outside and just realizing it's gonna be okay, and then realizing that my family's here, and and you know, as long as we're together, all the other stuff it you know means nothing. You know, all the other stuff that that I had was was fine. See, the even even the the the big house, the shiny cars, I knew they never made me happier. I just bought them because at some stages to be honest with you, if it sounds stupid, I was bored. If I'd buy a car at one stage, I was as a home a week, I was injured and I bought something. It was it was never for the right reasons, you know. When I was a kid, I had that poster on the wall of a Ferrari, and my first car was a Ferrari when I was 18 because it was a dream. I thought, oh my god, it was my first car. It sounds stupid, but I was like, I can do it, why not? I walked in and grabbed it, no one stopped me. You know what I mean? I I worked hard to do it. Um, and and it got to a point where I just when I bought things, I just bought it because I don't know, I just bought them. There was no nothing attached to it, nothing where I I wanted it for the longest time, you know. So it was just, it was a shell, it was emptiness when I bought things. And and to get to a stage where you lose everything. And then what hurt me, what what hurt me the most was losing that stuff was the was beautiful, the best thing ever, because it simplified everything in my life. But it was not being able to take care of the the people that I love. That's what hurt me the most. And I was so angry with myself because I put myself in a position where they worked so hard to get to put me in a position to become a professional, and and now it was my responsibility to take care of my family, and I had because of actions that I had controlled and stupid things of not understanding, I put myself in this position now. I can't take care of the people that I love. That's what hurt me the most.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

I guess you know, it's something I don't know. Do you need to have suffered the financial hardships along the way to to appreciate things those things now? I don't know whether you do or don't, but uh, you know, ultimately you you do see where the value is.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

100%. And like I said, the the car's thinks that, but that's not the reasons why I got into trouble. That's the the crazy thing is it was for the real estate. Um, but but again, not asking questions, not learning, you know what I mean? And but I believe I believe things happen for a reason, no matter how unfair or how much they hurt at the time. But knock on wood, as long as you have your health, man, you can accomplish anything. But it was a bit honestly the best thing could have happened to me. Those times were were tough, I'm not gonna lie. And it was not days or weeks or months, it was a year. But that also I got to a stage where I had the most amazing one and a half, two years of growth, where I just journaled and I read every any book that I could touch. You know, I earth authors that I loved, that I connected with, that I started growing as a human, as a person for the you know, and just learning, you know, and just putting myself in a good, just a good position, you know, really but but from the inside first, inside out, and then just things started. I really believe in in um vibrations and attraction and law of attraction, law of vibration. I believe that, you know, uh I'm a huge believer in that. And and once I got myself in, you know, these books and got myself in the mindset of of of of of of hanging around these people. They're in the same mindset as myself of growth as well and being in a good place, then I met my wife. Like I attracted that. Like if I had um, thank God I didn't meet her when I was younger, I would have done something stupid to mess it up. You know what I mean? So I'm grateful that I met her after all those difficult times and after I better myself uh bettered myself of understanding and growth and learning and audio books and all that, and and and like I said, and um, you know, you get stronger because of that. And and now put put you know um put myself with people where that can help me in a direction where I want to go, you know, ask some questions I know that you know I've got my back learned from and and and you know put my you know surround myself in that circle where you know, you know, we're where where I want to go in my life, you know, and and um and that's what that's where I'm at now, you know, the things I do, you know, uh grateful enough, Matt, you've invited me here. We've got an amazing tennis exhibition. And you know, I say yes to things because my heart is there, because I'm passionate about it. Otherwise, you know, I wouldn't leave my family. You know, I've known you for many years, and and and we're having an amazing time here. And then then when I come here, I'm grateful. You know, I walk through, we're at a beautiful hotel, I have a balcony overlooking the city, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to be in a room like that, you know, to be in an amazing city um like Dubai and the chance to overlook the ocean. You know what I mean? Like I every day I have gratitude for certain situations. I mean, a lot of situations, um, conversations I have with someone, with you right now, being mindful of that. Um, I think it's important to go through a time where maybe the the best thing to happen is the fact that I've lost everything. You know what I mean? So I know I I've built it back plus that, but stronger. But I know that it's only the beginning as well. And now being, you know, I have responsibilities, whereas before when I was young, you do stupid shit, you're a kid, you're supposed to do stupid stuff, you know. That's where you want to do it, get out of your system. But now I'm I'm I'm a husband, I'm a father, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

How do you think the experiences of your wilder younger days have impacted or you know mm created your behavior as as a father?

Business Now: Clothing Line And Purpose

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Oh, it it it it like I said, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I mean, now my best thing could I I can do is is that I enjoy movie nights, you know, with my family.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

In in so in terms of how you how you parent the kids, you know, do you uh you know, are you strict? Are you in education?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:14

Yeah, no, no, I look educational for sure. And and and like I said, I'm I'm blessed and very lucky with my my wife. She's an amazing human being, she has a beautiful heart, um, and and and she's an amazing mother, partner, and mother. And and I am, I'm not gonna lie, I'm strict with my my my my kids, but fair, a little more strict with my son, my uh Nicholas. My son, he's 10, he turns 11 in February, my daughter's six, and she's got me wrapped around her finger. I'm sure you know, being uh um, you know, having a daughter. Uh I am str you know, he wants to be an NBA player, and and I believe um he's gonna be an NBA player, and he's working hard. And I I'm very strict, so I give him that strong mindset now. He's not a tennis fan. No, no, he's he he plays ball, which I'm you know, I'm happy he is. I I sit I see your basketball training on Instagram. Yeah, so and and I'm I'm I'm strict. I I am strict with him, but fair. You know, I'm trying to teach him the understanding of having discipline and working hard. And if he does what he's supposed to do first and he works hard, then he can play. Then he, you know, as long as he's done his work and doing his homework, and that's very important, or how he he interacts with another human being. Someone says, Good morning, Nicholas, you say good morning, and you look at him in the eye, you shake his hand, firm shake, you know, when you look at him. You know, I I learnt, I've always, you know, have learnt that too since I was a little kid, and um treating everyone the same um and with everyone with respect. So that's very important things that I teach my kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Other than obviously, you know, getting married, becoming a father, talk to me about life post-retirement. You know, what uh what what what what did you fall into first? You know, what what what have you been up to? How do you fill your time? How do you make your money?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Well, the beautiful thing is after that is is I played a lot of Legends events and I fell in love with the game all over again because I'm getting a chance to play these Legends tournaments, and there's no stress and pressure. We're still competitive, we're gonna get out in the court and want to hit the ball well and and and play well, and I'm always going to be competitive. We've played paddle, you can see how competitive I'm in a paddle court. I'm a competitive person, and you know, and I I love that. Um so you know, lucky enough to still do play these Legends tournaments and these exhibitions and and and um play a game that I fell in love with for the pure joy of playing. Um, but I I do uh you know, commercial property with my best friend. We do stuff where we focus on the commercial property side. But my day-to-day thing is I have a clothing line. It's a passion project that's become a business for me that I'm really, you know, I have goals. I've set goals for myself for the business, 10-year goals that that I have. Uh two, three years. I launched it uh during COVID. Uh it's a clothing line as we create. So it's you and your wife, I think, isn't it? Men's and women's. Yes, men's and women's. And we're, you know, we're excited because we launched the first activewear line this year, actually end of this year, where the women's line will be launched at the start of next year. And I want to, I'm not gonna lie, if you bel think Lululemon, Viore, that's what it is. It's stuff that you can live in, but stuff that you can go out, coffee, walk around, walk the dog, um, go to breakfast, go in the gym. It's performance stuff as well, but stuff that's just just good style. It's it's um classic lines and that's comfortable. It's all about the material, I think, is the most important thing. The fabric feels amazing. And there's stuff that you just want to hang out with all day.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

And what what do you do in that business insofar as is it you love doing everything? We do everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:44

No, I they know I have no. I I've I've funded it all myself. I didn't want to bring in any um I don't know about the future, but but but I just you know uh I'm lucky enough we can reach out to people in industry and uh and uh and you know with certain questions and this and that. But um my wife and I do everything. I did all the websites. We we obviously get people to come in for um the photography, the filming, um, but I did the website myself. Um, you know, we even send out orders of sales. We're looking to expand next year to get into like um um a warehouse but also a storefront as well when the active line comes out. So uh, but yeah, I I'm I'm learning every day and I love it, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

You were saying earlier that uh you know you you you did a lot of reading at uh that particular point in your life. I mean, are you a reader when it comes to business? So how how do you how do you get your knowledge and tell tell me a couple of your favorite business books or podcasts?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:40

I I listen to podcast I mean I listen to yours. I listen to podcasts every day. So I wake up, one of my favourite authors is Robin Sharmer. Yeah, the monk who sold his Ferrari is one of the first books.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

But I haven't read I know the next one. The 5 a.m. Club.

Goals, Gratitude, And Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

I don't know if you've read The 5 a.m. Club is a book I love. Um I'm I'm up at 4 55 every day. Like I want to get up before five, and I have my first um my hour of of called the 2020-20 formula, which he likes to call it. But by I get up, I um they say you work out first, but but I I get up by I'll make myself a coffee and then I'll journal. The first hour I won't touch electronics, I won't look at my phone, I won't check any emails. I'm not allowed to have any electronics the first hour wake up. First hour is I'm a coffee snobber, love my coffee, so I make myself coffee and then I'll journal for 20 minutes. I'll start off with my grateful journal. I actually have a statement, I'm sorry, I have a statement I've written down for myself of my goals. So as soon as I wake up, I read the statement to myself of what I have my goals. I mark Philipusis and I have I have um goals in there. You know, I will, you know, I have uh certain um financial goals, this and that, that I'll read out to myself things. So I'll do that twice a day. As soon as I wake up and before I go to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

And how do you set your goals in terms of time scales? Do you have short-term things to do this week or this month?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:03

The statement is a long-term goal. I've given myself, it's a it's a 10-year thing that I certain things in my business and my personal life and financing, everything that I want by by 10 years. But I do set, I set um um daily goals. I pretty much set daily goals. So my journaling first thing is grateful. I write down everything that I'm grateful for, and then I have my thoughts. My thoughts I'll put out on paper maybe that I'm is something on my mind that I'm stressed about, um, personally, you know, business, financial, whatever it is. Um, and then I I have my thoughts and then my tasks, uh, my actions of how you know to to you know my most important things for the day, what I want to tackle, and then and then finish off with some posit positivity stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

I've never been a journaler myself, and I know a lot of people who do. When it comes down to you know writing what what you're grateful for, I mean, does that does that vary a lot? Because like I don't I would imagine if I was writing it, I'd be saying, yeah, I'm grateful for my kids, and I'd be writing that every every day. You know, pretty much gets a bit repetitive.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:08

I do, but but my God, am I grateful for them every day? You know, it's not it's like I don't want to write things and just be like, oh, I'm doing the same thing and it becomes like brushing your teeth. Like you really think about it. I'm aware and present of the things that I'm grateful for, you know, because I'm lucky enough to have them in my life, that every single day. And then and I'll might add things, other things that have come into my life, certain things where I've added I I one thing, even when it happened, I put on, I'm grateful for the opportunity to be going for Dubai and excited about the opportunities and the people that I will meet. You know what I mean? That's one thing. I in I'll add things on, I'll keep on adding to them, but I have certain things that I'm grateful for that's in my life every day. Um, so that's for sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

And what do you do with that journal book when you just keep these books?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

I would normally have so many journals, but I bought myself a Remarkable, you know, the Remarkable Pro.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:00

I know the name is like writer.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:03

It's it's like an iPad, but you can't do anything but write on it. Okay. And it's like it's like you're writing a piece of paper and it comes with a pen. Because I normally had an iPad Pro, but I didn't want anything to distract me from writing, and then I'm like, God, I'm writing, and all of a sudden, let me check out what's on YouTube, and then um there's I can watch movies. This is only for writing, it's the the best thing. It's it's it's it's called Remarkable. I got a remarkable too. Um, and and the the feeling is like you're writing on a piece of paper, you know. Yeah, he's got he's got it, so he's got it right there. Um, and and so I have that, and it's the battery lasts for like a month, you know. So I have that, and it's only for writing because I can have with me, it's this thin, and and I can I can have a hundred journals in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

And do you go back looking at stuff like sitting down? I can do that, yes. But but but do you actually do it? That's part of part of the whole process, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

Yeah, I definitely do. So I have it in there, and then my next 20 minutes is reading. So I will read my minimum of 10 pages a day. I have 10 pages, and sometimes I might do I might read for an hour, but I have a minimum of 20 minutes of journaling, minimum of 20 minutes of reading, where it has to be at least 20 minutes a um a day, and it's got to be in a non-fiction book. So something that will educate me that I can learn from. Can't be sci-fi or anything like that. Um, and and I've so I'm on the I'm on one to two books a month I I read, but I just read twice again. I just finished before I came here thinking grow rich. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

First time you've read it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

Uh second time. First time was on an ebook podcast um uh on um sorry, on on my phone, but first time audio book, first time I've read it, which was much more powerful because I would underline things, and then I would put things in my journal as well. They would really come out to me, hit out to me. Um, and that's where I created the statement from, you know, because I have that um one of the first things to do, you know, as your statement. And then so, and then I would and then I would do something physical. I work out twice a day. So I do certain things in the business things uh for whatever, my clothing line to do, and then with my, you know, uh with my wife or my kids to pick up, he's got basketball training, so then I have my schedule. I I buy two, three books a month easily, and I've got uh under my desk the ones to read next. But you know, one thing I would say for you to do, and also it's changed my life because I had a lot of moments where everyone talks of motivation, you know, you people get motivated, but it only could it last a week, could last three days. What changed things next level for me was um Andy Frisella. Have you heard of Andy Frisella? Yeah, have you heard of 75 Hard? Absolutely, yeah. I did 75 Hard for the first time this year, and I completed it. Did it and I um and I I completed it, did it once. I didn't um I didn't have to do it twice, but I I did it. That changed, it put me in the next level. You know why? Because it gave me habits, like it proper integrated habits in my career, in my life, and that was about the reading physically. I work out twice a day. Since then, it's I I do 75 heart every single day.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:07

Drink the water.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

Every day, drinking the water, 3.8 liters of water. I work out, one workout is in the more is is outside, and one workout has to be inside. So I work out, I'd done that, the reading, the journaling, and I've added things to it. You know, the eating and stuff like that. So I I I that was that was life-changing for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

I had a couple of friends who did it over here. I mean, one particular friend who actually who stuck to I mean, a lot of people started it and and uh and and and dropped out. But uh, I mean, after the 75 days, you know, he was unrecognizable. You know, bottom of it, I I'm I can only talk physically and obviously I'm not sure what he was up to mentally. But in terms, I mean, never mind the 75 days, what I found amazing was that within 30 days, yes, you know, and obviously the longer you do something that the the more impact and the more results you're gonna get. But just yeah, it was literally 14 days in, twenty one days in, thirty days in, the the the m absolutely Material changes that happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:03

That's what was most exciting for me. The physical part was there because you those one of the things you have to take photos every single day, right? It was how your mind got stronger. It was how I was so excited. I wanted to add another thing to it. I wanted to add another thing to it because of exactly what you said. Not just physically, it changed, but mentally, it takes your mentality to another level. Um, and that I honestly that that was that was like the foundation where I felt like it just took me to another level.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

As a goal setter, if you hit those goals, what what where would you like to see yourself in 10 years' time?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:35

Look, I'll be honest, it's not different from what it is now. I I I I don't need anything, you know what I mean? Like I my my loving wife death my family to death, so I take care of my family. I'm able to take care of my family now. My wife has a nice car, I have one, but I don't need five. You know, we just need one each, and um and and the house, like I would we have a beautiful place now. I have a goal for my for my business that I want to sell and what number I'm gonna sell it for. I will continue to do the stuff I do with my best friend with with the commercial property, but just take it to a whole nother level and I've got a number for that, you know, that kind of stuff. And nothing would change, you know. Yeah, I don't think nothing would change from from what I'm doing now, to be honest with you. It's just my goals would change. It wouldn't, I can't say that in 10 years' time, if I do this, we're gonna be living here, we're gonna be doing this. You know what I mean? It's just put me in a place where we have what we need now, but I've just created those goals.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:35

Well, I think I think my you know that makes any sense. Absolutely. I think my summary of you know, I think what I've taken from this or all or learnt from this, you know, over the last hour or two, is that you know, you've you've learned from the lessons of the past anyway. You've already created a life that is the life that you want, a lot a life of happiness, uh, you know, with the kids, with the family, you know, with the business and everything else, and the constant learning you're doing and the things that you've picked up over the last months and years is just gonna be further, further building blocks, you know, to to cement what is already a happy life. And if it didn't change or didn't get any better, which I'm sure it will, but if it didn't, you kind of already got everything you want right now, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:15

A hundred yeah, you nailed it a hundred percent. Uh and and again, but I I I just know that every day just gets better. You know what I mean? No matter what. Sure. And if and that doesn't happen, it's happened for a reason because that other thing's going to be even better. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:30

Well, so Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, buddy. And uh, you know, I I I I always like talking to doing podcasts with people people I know. I mean, it's always interesting that even though I know them to you know open up avenues of conversation and things that I didn't know about and interesting avenues that or interesting tangents that I never expected the conversations to go off on. So listen, you know, thank thanks, thanks for talking, thanks for sharing your journey with everybody else, and uh thanks for teaching me while we've been here too as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:55

It's an absolute pleasure. I'm looking forward to getting on that pedal court again. Absolutely. Thanks a lot, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:01

Thank you.