Kidnapped Twice: Surviving Human Trafficking | Lurata Lyon

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of human trafficking, exploitation, violence and trauma. Please listen with care.

What happens when surviving isn’t the end of the story, it’s the start of your mission?

In this episode, Matt Haycox sits down with Lurata Lyon, author of Unbroken: Surviving Human Trafficking, to share a story that’s hard to hear, but important to understand. Lurata speaks openly about being trafficked, escaping captivity, the realities of grooming and exploitation, and what it took to rebuild her identity and life after everything she lived through.

This isn’t “shock content.” It’s a first-hand account of survival, and a reminder that the world is not always safe, but recovery, purpose, and a future are possible.

In this conversation, you’ll hear about:

• The real mechanics of trafficking, how coercion, control, and grooming work in practice.
• Escaping, being found, and why getting “out” is only one part of survival.
• How Lurata eventually made it to the UK and rebuilt her life.
• Trauma, nightmares, and the mindset tools she uses to keep moving forward.
• Why she wrote Unbroken, and what she hopes it changes in people.

Timestamps
0:00 – Intro
4:24 – Who is Lurata Lyon & why this story matters 
11:04 – Childhood & early life before everything changed
15:00 – War, instability, and the start of survival mode
24:15 – Crossing the border & how quickly control can happen
34:03 – Kidnapped and trafficked: what captivity really looks like
39:52 – Grooming, coercion, and the exploitation pipeline
49:57 – The “no-win” choices victims are forced into
54:40 – The next 24 hours: fear, control, and endurance
01:10:28 – Reunited briefly… then taken again
01:22:47 – Escaping a second time: survival instincts and strategy
01:30:47 – Smuggled into the UK & the reality of starting over 
01:34:25 – Reconnecting with family after years apart
01:38:13 – Marriage, children, and rebuilding a life after trauma 
01:44:47 – Perspective, recovery, and what keeps her going 
01:51:37 – Final thoughts

Follow Lurata Lyon:
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/luratalyon/
Web: https://www.luratalyon.com/
Book: Unbroken: https://amzn.eu/d/09nLvVHz 

Enjoyed this episode? Please subscribe to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox and leave a ★★★★☆ review on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout – it really helps others find us!

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening Monologue: The Ultimatum And Prayer
• 3:56 Show Intro And Guest Welcome
• 6:20 Why The Book Matters And Early Impact
• 10:25 Global Scale Of Human Trafficking
• 12:26 Childhood, War Clouds, And A Father’s Warning
• 17:02 The March To Execution And A Town Saved
• 23:04 Crossing Borders Alone To Kosovo
• 27:02 UN Protection And A Fragile Safe Haven
• 33:44 Abduction In Pristina And The Grooming Plan
• 40:06 The Sale, Refusal, And Failed Border Transfer
• 44:18 The Death Order, Prayer, And Escape
• 49:10 Police Rescue And Arrests Initiated
• 52:08 Return Home And Second Abduction
• 56:30 Torture And Six Months’ Solitary Confinement
• 1:02:56 A Father’s Bribe And 24 Hours Of Freedom
• 1:06:40 Smuggled Out And Starting Again In Britain
• 1:11:18 Family, Going Back, And Living With Fear
• 1:15:14 Love, Trust, And Reclaiming Intimacy
• 1:20:08 Perspective, Mindset, And Daily Practices
• 1:25:12 Where To Find Loreta And Her Book

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

He's standing there with this real fierce face. He said to one of the youngest teams, you come here, rape her hella and get rid of her. That's when I lost hope. I really wasn't ready. Nobody's ever ready to die. And I just remember playing him at least that we played. I am so scared. I really wasn't ready to go. If you could only just tell my mum and dad what it happened, because I'm about to die. I went outside and left the gun behind me, and then I had this thing over my head, and it got shoved into the pan, and they said, Oh, we've got the spy, we've got the them calling me names, the B word, and then like, yes, boss, we got her. Finally, she's wonderful. It's like flip her on the back. I want to watch this rape. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. At that point, I'd gone into my back. We were like wild monsters. And then my grooming started. By the time we reached their apartment, which was midnight at this point, the same apartment where they helped me, the boss gets a call, and he was on the hallway, and he just goes, Yep, yep. Oh, really? Okay. And he gets really angry. He goes, She is more troubled than she's worth it. And I'm now looking puzzled, like, what have I done? Like, what am I troubled? You know, I was so scared. I was shivering and like looking at them like, oh my God, you know, you're constant in constant stress. And we're all standing on the hallway. And I remember because the bathroom and the kitchen was behind me, and it's a small hallway, like as wide as this. And he's standing there with this real fierce face. And I was like, Oh my god, I'm in trouble. He said to one of the youngest team, he said, You come here, rape her, killer, and get rid of her. At that point, I went from you know, I don't know what's going on. I didn't get shit, da-da-da, to literally rape her, killer, done. So my life, my life expectan expectancy came to a close. It was like, okay, now this is minutes. Oh my god, what am I gonna do? I was so scared of dying. That's when I lost hope. That's when I thought, oh great, this is happening. And I really wasn't ready. Nobody's ever ready to die. So he left, they closed the doors, and the guy was like, Come on, you heard, and he's got the gun. And then I started like like really he was old older than me, but not too much older. He maybe was in his early 20s, and I just remember begging him, I'm like, please let me pray, let me pray. I'm so scared. I said, I'm so scared. I said, if I can just pray. I said, We're both Muslims, can we just pray? He's like, Okay, he said, I haven't done this before, but I think he was new to this. He said, I need to pray. So he went to the bathroom. I was on the floor already. There was a TV on the left hand side, the sofa here, this is in the bedroom. And um, by the TV, there was an empty kind of slot, and in Islam, you have to you can't have anything in front of you, so you have to find the right place to pray. And I just collapsed on my knees and uh put my my head down. And I really, really prayed for forgiveness, and I really wasn't ready to go. And if only the the words that I said to God, to Allah, I said, if you could only just tell my mum and dad what had happened, because I'm about to die, and they're never gonna find out what happened.

SPEAKER_02: 3:56

Guys, Matt Haycock's here, and welcome to another episode of Stripping Off with Matt Haycock's, where we metaphorically strip off our guests and get down to their story, uh, their mindset, and everything they can teach us about life, money, business, motivation. And today I've got an unbelievable guest with a story quite unlike anyone who we've ever had on the show before. I have with me Larata Lyon. Well dad, I'm not sure. I've been practicing that. I've been practicing it. I get so nervous. Uh she is uh an author, an author of Unbroken. She's a motivational speaker, but I guess most importantly, she is a survivor of human trafficking and a survivor, I think not just once, but twice, uh, which we will we will dig into shortly. So very much uh it almost feels wrong to say that. I was gonna say very much looking forward to hearing your story. I am very much looking forward to hearing your story, but obviously it's uh you know a horrendous story with uh an inspiring and motivational lend, I'm sure. So uh Lorata, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00: 4:54

Thank you, Matt. Um I was really excited to meet you as well. And you shouldn't feel like you've expected. Um you are better in person. Thank you. I don't think anybody should feel like they can't say they're looking forward to reading the story because for me it means so much that anyone so far has taken their time to read the book because what they find, surprisingly, is educational, which I'm not patronizing anyone, but just it's a lot of content about history that is not very old and people can still relate to countries that they go and visit still, and you know, they're like holiday sort of places. And to to put that in perspective with what where we are now and then, I think for people it's really nice to see how far maybe the country has come or what's happening now, but also they learn a lot of uh inspiration from it, and um I think they take it, they put themselves in the shoe and say, Oh, okay, I I actually have it pretty good right now, so I better be grateful for what I have. And it's really nice to hear people say, You've inspired me and you've just changed my mindset, and you know, I can do this, or I can go through whatever I'm going through. So it's really brilliant feedback.

SPEAKER_02: 6:02

Well, I mean, I think when you when you look at you know the experience you've suffered compared to, and listen, I'm not trying to diminish anybody's problems, but when you look at the the problems that uh people think nowadays are problems or the things that they're anxious of or scared of, which you know are not are nothing really are nothing at all really in in anyone's walk of life. Never mind when you compare it to something like this. I think it it takes a it takes a very, let's say, awkward or stubborn person not to look at your story and take a massive wake-up call from that. That you know, if if that's if that's what you've been through and come through the other side and you could you can you can tell this tale and be this inspiring person and uh you know and and and be happy and positive and upbeat, then they then they sure as shit can too.

SPEAKER_00: 6:45

Thank you, Matt. I I just think even people in the office uh world, for example, in corporate world, when they had a time like ladies that I have reached out to me to say, uh, you know, I was having some tough time at work, or just to go after COVID or during COVID, people heard the story and they said, Oh my god, you know, it just made me think differently about what I was facing and it helped me overcome my obstacles that I was facing at work. And things like this that are, you know, feedback like this that I'm really surprised to get because I don't, I didn't expect it. All I wanted to do is write a book so I can raise awareness on human trafficking. That was my main focus. Little did I know that I was reaching people that are facing battle with cancer and and writing to me directly saying, Oh my god, I can beat cancer. If you can beat that, I can beat cancer. I mean, how amazing is it to get a message like that? It's I cry with every message I get. Excuse me, I've been doing too many interviews and I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 7:44

You keep the tissues handy.

SPEAKER_00: 7:46

I do, I do because I know myself. But yeah, thank you for having me on the show. I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_02: 7:58

Shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_00: 8:00

No, but it will inspire them and it will actually uh what it does is it sort of breaks this limitation in your in your mindset that what we because look, everybody's story and experience is valuable. So what they're going through, it's amplified to only what they know. Um, you can't expect them to be able to relate to my extensive of what I've been through and to say, oh, well, mine is less than hers, because they don't know any different. So we have to respect that. We have to respect that people don't have to go through war to actually have struggles. They genuinely, we all are struggling one way or another. So it's just about being open to reading something that could potentially, you know, just unlock that block within your mindset and say, actually, I can do it too. This is okay. So that's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02: 8:46

Well, look, I'm very much looking forward to, I guess, going back in time uh and hearing the story. But just before we do, just to set a bit of context for numbers with people. Uh, and I don't want to say any numbers because I will completely get it wrong, but I once I did actually once have um a guest on the show, and I forget his name. I should have uh I should have checked before we started. He was he was a guy who he was one of the financiers or producers behind the is it the Sound of Freedom it's called? Yes. If you told me his name, I'd remember I should know as well, because he's done it, he's done a lot of podcasts. We did a podcast together, and he was talking to me uh about two things which I found utterly staggering. Uh, one was the frightening number of people that human trafficked that actually are human uh trafficked, which you know, if you'd have asked me saying how many people human trafficked, I'd say 2,000 a year, and I'd probably think I'm being top heavy. And it was it was like literally millions or something, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 9:38

150 million people. And this is statistics. Last year, just before I published the book, it was a CIA agent that told me.

SPEAKER_02: 9:46

150 million, what like over time worldwide? Over time, well, per per annum.

SPEAKER_00: 9:51

A year, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:52

A year, 150 years.

SPEAKER_00: 9:53

A yeah, 150 million people. That was when we were talking in 2000, because the book was published last year, 2003. Sorry, 2023, 2022, the statistics.

SPEAKER_02: 10:05

So I mean it's just it's just an unthinkable number. And the second thing I found so staggering, uh, because I was thinking, how how does that happen to so many people? Uh, and he was telling me that uh was it that the vast majority, or certainly a big number, of these people are actually basically given off or sold off by the parents uh, you know, for uh well, because they want money or because they want to get rid of the kid.

SPEAKER_00: 10:27

100%. So I don't know whether he's the biggest majority on that, because I have so many different feedback from agents and it is. When I lived in Asia, because I lived in Asia for five years in Singapore, and I got involved with the charities and embassies to raise awareness on human trafficking. I have to say that majority of the children we dealt with, not directly but with through the safe houses and stuff, was kids that have been sold for for marriage at a very young age or for sex so the family can support uh their living. It was sick.

SPEAKER_02: 11:05

Well, let's let's take it back to your story. Um, and I guess you know, to tell tell me, I don't know what where you want to start, uh, but tell me tell me how how it began for you and how how you fell into this world.

SPEAKER_00: 11:15

I'll take you on a nice journey and all the viewers.

SPEAKER_02: 11:19

I mean, this already has to be a display of positivity that you're that you are smiling your way through about to tell me uh tell me this story.

SPEAKER_00: 11:27

So well, Matt, I was a kid, I was always very happy. And luckily I managed to regain that again at this point. But I was a happy kid, wanting to help everyone, just wanting to make a difference in the neighborhood. I was the only child. My parents couldn't have children, they really struggled. And all the details are in the book. I won't spoil it too much. But why do I take you to my childhood? Because I want the viewers and the listeners to go back to maybe around the age of 17. Where were they at 17? What were they trying to do? Was it that they were doing their GCSC levels or thinking about university? Whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 12:07

I have a 17-year-old daughter up in Leeds, so I can I can come completely parallel.

SPEAKER_00: 12:12

Yeah, and also yourself, you know, remember that time when you were 17 or 18, for example, around your teen years, where you are thinking about dreaming of the future that you want. Uh, like my kids now, one wants to be a pilot, the other ones wants to be God knows what. I mean, they just have these massive dreams. I had dreams as well, but my dreams were more based around what I witnessed. And what I witnessed was that my parents uh were both in in well, one was in education, the other one was a doctor. So my dad is a doctor and my mom a professor of languages. I admired them both. They were both uh activists on human rights and they struggled to find jobs. It was so hard for them. I just watched the way my dad helped everyone. He was doing his job, paid job, by the government, as he does, you know, just a GP. But then anytime anybody needed him as an emergency or there was like uh complications of any kind, he did it all as a charity. He helped everyone and he lost sleep sometimes just to help people. But his passion to being such a dedicated doctor, to saving lives, to want to help. I mean, a man was born to make a difference in the world. He really was my real true inspiration and a hero. And I was like, Dad, when he asked me one day, he said, So, Loretta, have you thought what you want to be in your life? And it was a cheeky question from him. It wasn't really in a positive way that he asked me, but I think he's he was rather trying to prepare me for the disappointment that I was never going to achieve my dreams. That if I wanted to be, I don't know, uh a nurse or something. And I said to him, Look, Dad, um I want to be a doctor just like you. And he was a bit shocked because he didn't expect it. And he said, Why? I said, Because, you know, dad, I said, you're also, you know, you're so good with people and you're helping people. So I too want to be in that position to help others. He set me down with this real kind of deep energy, heavy. He said, Loretta, I just want to say something. I said, I know you want to be a doctor, and I see now, I understand you want to help people. He said, but as you can see, uh our country is already at war, and the war had started in the early 90s and it was in Bosnia, and it was a huge massacre going on. He said, the war is really reaching us slowly, slowly. So he said, it might mean that you never go to university, you might just lose those years just by in hiding, or worst case scenario, he said that we might get executed. And I just remember looking at him thinking, what? Like, really? I mean, I can see the war is coming, but I thought maybe my dad just doubts my knowledge and becoming a doctor. I still was so naive.

SPEAKER_02: 15:01

Sorry to interrupt uh the story, and maybe a naive question from my end. But if if there was a real prospect of that coming, what why why do you not leave the country, or is it just not a realistic proposition to be able to leave?

SPEAKER_00: 15:14

Matt, you wouldn't believe this. And I say it on my speeches: the whole country was in a lockdown. Nobody was allowed to leave or enter. The whole Serbia, the whole, the whole nation, we were like in a frying pan. So hence why the the numbers of um it's just what's happening now in the news. I try not to get into the whole news and stuff, what's going on now, but we see that the borders are shut and so on. So you get into a frying pan and it's nowhere to go. So you are literally fried to to the bone. And uh that's why nobody could leave. We couldn't leave. And eventually, though, so So sorry, go back to your story. I mean, I'm just because it there's gonna be loads of questions, I'm sure, but um, just to this is uh the longest I have taken to say about my passion to wanting to help people. He said, You look, you might never become a doctor, but you'll find a way to help people if that's what you want. And he left me with that, and that stayed on my mind, and I thought, oh gosh, what am I ever, if I ever make it alive out of this, what am I gonna do? What does my dad mean? And university was very important to me. And now I look back, and with everything that I'm doing, my dad was right. Um, my it my doing, my my calling was to help people, and that's what I'm doing now. So he was completely right in preparing me that I was never to go to university back home. But yeah, then soon after that, the war really hit us badly. Our town uh got singled out for I say ethnic cleansing, but it was really a religious kind of focus because a majority of the people, or if not all, in that town were Muslims, and the next town was mixed. So the soldiers took us from our houses, and it was really quite a terrifying night. And the the readers will find the book quite interesting because it's very detailed of what happened. So they put us in this crease of the mountain and got ready to execute us to do the biggest massacre that's ever been.

SPEAKER_02: 17:15

And when you say us, uh your family The whole town. How did how does that come about? You you're at home, the doors get kicked in, the army or whoever it is are rounding people up, and they load you into a car and take you to an execution place, and you you're you're stood there with your family?

SPEAKER_00: 17:31

Yeah, so they they come into the garden. We just heard a big knock at the door, and it wasn't just us, it was the entire army going to every single door. Yeah, they already started at the top of the because the village goes sort of into the crease of the we are surrounded by mountains, so it the village started in the field and then it sort of ends towards the the actual crease of the mountain. So they started from the top and they were getting people to move. We were the last ones because we were like on the outskirts, and we joined the crowd. So when we walked out of our house onto the road, my dad was very keen to reach to my uncle's house to see if he can reach his brother because he wanted to be together, and so we sort of sort of all shuffled in. It was very crowded, the roads were crowded, and these small roads were super crowded with women, children screaming, babies, olderly limping. It was horrific. We all were marching to our death.

SPEAKER_02: 18:31

It was no entire village, nobody.

SPEAKER_00: 18:33

The entire village, every single person, and the army is just at the back, like pushing us along and asking us to shirch. And then eventually we managed to re- my uncles was my uncle was waiting for my dad, so he was quite um near us. And we got together with him, his family, his kid, his wife, and we all just marched into the crease of the mountains. And then once it was like a long walk, what seems very short plays, like um distance-wise, it's not that that big, but because everyone was shuffling, it was a huge crowd. It's like imagine uh a football stadium being released, and then it's all into the small rows, they're all like um you know, hurdles of sheep just being taken into their death.

SPEAKER_02: 19:20

And how were you feeling at that point? What's going through in your mind? I mean, I presume you all think the end is the end is here now.

SPEAKER_00: 19:26

I was still young and naive. I was scared, but I wasn't analysing too much. It's just the the echo, the don't it was daunting to have this echo in the air, this sort of uh this kind of noise and this weird, I don't know how to explain, Matt. It's um it's it's very hard to describe it with words and what you feel. It's just very, it's like um it's it's end of days kind of thing. You you just you are scared, obviously. And um my dad was really concerned because he knew we were going to die. And uh, once we reached the crease of the mountain, everybody was you know really scared. Some crying, some praying. It was just all sorts happening. Kids screaming, and uh my uncle whispered to my dad something, and my dad's like, Don't do that, just stay. What he was saying is, brother, I'm gonna go and negotiate with the with the uh army because come on, I've got so much money, surely I can save the town. I don't know what prompted my uncle to do what he did. I mean, he was the wealthiest man in Balkan, he's very well known to this day. Everybody back home knows what he did for that village or for that town. So he really is a real hero, and we still get thanked for what he did. So what he did was he went and spoke to the army and he said, Look, um, I mean, I'm not even gonna describe him, but in the book I go all details. He goes, You're gonna be hunted down. I've got so much wealth. If you do this massacre, you'll be hunted down. They will not stop, the UN will not stop the United Nations or Hague. So please uh listen to me. We can do a deal, save the town. They haven't done anything wrong. Enough with massacres. You've done so much in Bosnia. Please just we beg you. And the soldiers like, Oh, stop it, old man. And so they're pushing him around, and he's like, Listen, I've got so much wealth. If I give you all my wealth, you can even escape yourself, and you don't have to do this. And so the soldiers thought that my uncle was bluffing. He wasn't bluffing, he was completely serious. And um, they said, Okay, then come on, show us. And my mum was like, Oh, I'll come with you and help. And I was like, Mom, I didn't want her to leave me. And my dad is like, Why is she always getting involved? So sweet. And she went with my uncle, and I really thought that was the end of our separation. And I started crying and holding my uncle's son near me. They'd been gone for a long time. We really thought they maybe they executed them or what we didn't know what was happening.

SPEAKER_02: 21:55

Hours.

SPEAKER_00: 21:56

Hours, because what happened, Matt, on those days, my uncle didn't. Trust the banks, they were corrupt. So all the gold he had, cash he had, because he was a big farmer, farmer, like at a very sort of high-tech kind of level for that time. He had huge farms and loads of help. And he traded all sorts of different animals. Anyway, and um in the ground, in his garden, which was covered usually with grass and just normal stuff. You'd never think anything of it. When we eventually got saved and we got back to see where my uncle was and my mum, because the soldiers backed away, we found them they had dug out so many holes in the garden and inside his house and all these different secret places. We were shocked. We didn't know it looked like an open graveyard. It was so many holes. So they had to dig to get this gold out, this cash out that my uncle had buried. And we found them, my mum and him, uh sitting there, literally on the steps and just crying because they thought, okay, the wealth has gone. We've been left to see the biggest massacres they've ever done to witness it. And because nobody was coming for them. But when they heard the footsteps and we walked into the garden where my uncle and my mum was, I never forget the joy that we felt, the relief. But I was just scared because I saw so many holes. I didn't know what had happened. And they ran to us and we had a reunite, you know, we reunited after a few hours of being separated. And my dad, I remember asking my uncle, he's like, What happened here? He said, Oh, I brother, I had so much wealth. It was all hidden. He said, Oh, brother, you've lost everything. And he gave, he was so cheeky. He looked like John Wayne. So everybody can that knows John Wayne as an actor. He looked like him, he spoke like him. He just like really spitting image of John Wayne. And he just like, brother, listen, uh, do you really think I gave them everything? I mean, he had kept some behind. And it was just that that relief of not having been massacred was a huge relief for us.

SPEAKER_02: 24:06

And did everybody survive that? Did nobody get killed?

SPEAKER_00: 24:09

Nobody got killed that night. So the whole town was Muslim uh oriented. They were all Muslims. So we got saved that night. And then days after things really were getting really bad. And my dad came from from the main sort of center of town, and he in panic is like, oh my god, she needs to go, come on, pack. I'm like, what's going on, Dad? You know, it's like, what do you mean, pack me? He's like, yeah, you've got to leave. You've got to cross the borders. Because we were on the border with uh Kosovo, and he said, you need to cross the border from Serbia to Kosovo and seek for shelter like Red Cross or whichever charity that is set up there. Because by that point, United Nations had entered Kosovo for peacekeeping, and it was all the UN troops from all sorts of countries, uh, British, you name it, everyone, Americans, French, Italians, like all the nationalities, really, that they're combined on the UN uh kind of umbrella. And yeah, long story short, I didn't want to go back and forth with my dad. I just said, okay, dad, I'll I'll listen to you. So I said goodbye to them because I didn't know what was going to happen next. And I was made to trek through the mountain on my own, not knowing which way am I going. I mean, scared of because we we have, you know, wild dogs in in anyway. I managed to get to the other side eventually, a little bit, you know, cut and and bruised, and because I I didn't know where I was going, got lost. Uh, but when I reached the other side, I immediately from the mountain, as you walk down this little field of slope, I went into this road, and luckily there was a bus coming. And now it was really helpful because I speak Serbian fluently because I was born and raised in Serbia, but I also speak Albanian fluently because the school I went to, we spoke both languages, and all the people in the town I was raised in are Albanian-speaking Muslims. So when I reached the other side, it was fairly straightforward. I spoke with a dialect. So they couldn't tell that I was from this side because we have different dialects. Spoke in Serbian, uh, sorry, in Albanian, and I said, I just need to get to the capital of Kosovo. They said, We're not going there, it's far away, but I we can take you to the next best thing, and then from there you can take another bus. So the driver was friendly, and uh, and I said, I sat there and I just kept myself to myself, completely petrified because I had just left my parents. I reached Kosovo and I reached, sorry, I reached Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, after changing the bus. I was really thirsty. It was nighttime, it was reaching six, seven o'clock at night, and the night had fallen, completely confused where I was going. I saw some lights in the bar, nobody on the streets, which was like a ghost town, quite scary. And I decided to go into this bar. And when I walked in, I I opened the door, and I just I have this vivid picture in my head still. I opened the door, and every single person in that room was with uniforms, different uniforms, with different helmets, different colours. And I was almost shocked and scared at the same time, but I really needed water. And I thought this doesn't look like a uniform back home, so I'm gonna go through it. Went through it, asked the barman for water. He said, What are you doing here? What are you doing? I said, I just need some water. So he gave me some water, tap water, and I went outside and I didn't know where to go. So I collapsed just outside of the bar, outside the door, cold and just sort of scrunched up. And I started crying, just feeling sorry for myself because I thought, What I failed. Like, how am I going to find the Red Cross or any shelter? Luckily, two American police officers that were UN police officers at that time, Peter and Brian, which are both on my book. I dedicated this book to them for their kindness and care. They noticed that I was young and I shouldn't have been out because it was after police hours. So they came out with a translator. I couldn't speak a word in English, and they said, Ask her what's she doing here. So back and forth. I said, I'm from Serbia. And they said, You can't even be here. Whatever. You know, they they were there they were puzzled that I was even there because we were not supposed to cross borders. I said, I just need to go to the Red Cross. They said, We can't take her to the Red Cross. We need to take her somewhere safe, and then we will talk tomorrow about where we go next with her.

SPEAKER_02: 28:52

And why can't they take you to the Red Cross?

SPEAKER_00: 28:55

Yeah. Um, unfortunately, what was about to happen with me next is that the Red Cross, the people, not the actual Red Cross itself, I can't fault it because I don't know them very well. I think they do well, good stuff. But during the war, when they set up a camp somewhere, they have local people running it. And the local people were corrupt. And the UN has noticed that something's really not right about what's going on, but they can't always interfere because they have to keep, they have to stick to what they meant to do. And they knew that if they took me there, because I've crossed borders and I'm Serbian, I don't fit the profile of someone that should be given shelter in Kosovo, considering I was from Serbia. And they were involved, some of the people in the actual that were running the Red Cross, they were involved in human trafficking. And so they didn't want to take me there. So they took me to their apartment uh with my permission. I said, okay, well, I needed shelter. So we became best friends. So I was uh I was with them for quite some time and we became best of friends. I had the most um those memories. I sometimes really long for that time bizarrely. I just want to go back, have them there in that apartment together again. I miss them. Sorry, you might be wondering, you know, how could somebody miss somebody that's not related to you? Nothing to do with your background, but I I miss anyone that's shown me kindness and care. And they were so respectful. They were so respectful.

SPEAKER_02: 30:39

How long do you stay with them?

SPEAKER_00: 30:43

Oh gosh, the timing is just all over the place with me. But I was with them for more than a month, I was for quite some time with them, and uh they decided to keep me there until things calmed down in Serbia because they didn't want to risk putting me somewhere and they really enjoyed having me around. Peter had children in Florida, he was really missing his kids. Brian, he didn't have children, but he just grew really fond of me, and we were very close in a sense that we became family for them. I think they were doing to them, they were risking their safety, obviously, for doing what they were doing. They were risking their positions. But everyone that I knew through them in the UN, they were in agreement and they the UN knew that I was with them. And it shouldn't be that way because they're not supposed to have, you know, people just randomly staying with them. But they all knew how fragile I was and how dangerous it was for me. So they agreed to keep it under the radar and just keep me there until I actually am safe to return home when they thought they were safe to return home. So yeah, stayed with them. You know, we did so much together. Every little event in the evening they had with other United Nations friends. Uh, they took me with them. So I got to know most of the uh most of the teams, and uh, you know, some of them reminded me of my father or my grandfather. They were so nice to me, and just everybody looked after me. Literally, they just I was just precious. They all tried their best to keep me safe, and for that I'm really grateful because so many nationalities were involved to keep me safe with them. Um, British people, you know, uh troops, Italians and all sorts, they all knew and they were all keeping it, making sure they kept watch, you know, things that didn't go that well after a bit. Um, I used to clean and do things around the house because when they were doing their duties, I couldn't just be with them on the van because it's dangerous. So they would leave me home and they said, When we're off duty, we spend time together. But when we're on duty, you have to stay home and don't ever leave our apartment. And that was very clear.

SPEAKER_02: 33:02

Let me hit you with a map. You are probably not subscribed. Seriously, 58% of the people who listen to this podcast every single week do not hit the subscribe button. It's more than a lot of videos. Let's fix it. Please do that. I've been giving you my idea. And hit my subscribe button. And it means I can keep bringing you even bigger and better guesses, giving you even bigger and better insights. Great choice. Let's grab this together.

SPEAKER_00: 34:03

But this one day I'd finished all the chores. Not that they asked me to do the chores, but I really wanted to do it because I was getting bored and it was nice to help them around the house and run the flats. I thought, okay, I've done everything. There is no electricity, the electricity cuts were quite regular. I thought, what do I do? I'll just go outside. There is a stand there, I can buy a magazine or a newspaper with some change that they left around. They didn't mind. They're like, just take it if you need anything when we're going shopping. I never took it, but that one day, on my own, I decided to take, you know, 50p or something to go buy something, and it just turned into a crazy experience. I went outside, I left the door open behind me, and just about to go to the stand to buy a thing, a magazine or a newspaper. I had this van squeaking wheels onto the pavement in front of me, and it sort of made me jump because I didn't expect a van to be coming onto the pavement. And as I always say, I was about to tell them off because it's like it scared me. I didn't have a chance. I mean, I didn't even have a chance to do anything. There was a split second, and I had this thing over my head. I got shoved into the van. And they said, Oh, we've got the spy, we've got the, you know, they were calling me names, the B word. And I'm there like pinching myself, please wake up. This is surely a dream. You are not going, this is not happening. I was really trying to wake myself up from a nightmare, but unfortunately, it wasn't a nightmare. It was literally, it was happening, and I it's nothing I could do about it. And they took me to the boss, which wasn't very far away, didn't take far to get me there to where he was waiting. And and they dragged me from the car in into this building, and uh uh they got me on my knees, holding me sort of a bit like a hostage, and they flipped this thing off my head. And when I opened my eyes, I saw this this uh maybe my dad's age guy, maybe a bit younger. And he's looking, he said, Oh, this is the one. And I'm thinking, the one? Am I that famous? I mean, who knows about me? Like, what do they mean? The one. So you know, you talk to yourself, don't you? You're always talking. And he said, Okay, guys, look, she's the spy, right? Okay, she's with the Americans, right? And they're like, Yes, boss, we got her. Finally, she's vulnerable. Anyway, it's like flip her on her back. Let's, I want to watch this rape. And I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And and at that point, I'd gone onto my back. They were like wild monsters. They're on top of me, stripping everything off me, like funny enough. Strip off with sorry, we're just bringing a bit of light humor to that's a gentle strip. Yeah, so um, as they strip me off, literally, um, and this guy is on top of me, and you know, he's he's getting himself prepared to rape me. I was crying and I was screaming, and I I don't know why I said what I said, but you live in Dubai, and um, I don't know how it is now, but maybe some of the viewers can relate to this, being some of the Muslim viewers perhaps. I was born and raised as a Muslim, and to marry a decent guy on those days, you had to be a virgin, you had to be decent, especially in a small kind of community where everybody knew your business. And in all honesty, finding a guy didn't interest me. I wanted to study, I wanted, I wanted to see the world. I didn't want to just marry and that's it. I that would have come eventually, of course. But there wasn't anyone remotely that, you know, I would wanted to have been at that time. I was very young.

SPEAKER_02: 37:54

But you were still 17, 18.

SPEAKER_00: 37:56

Yeah, so I I was just like um, you know, a modest girl going to school, that kind of stuff. So but I was still a virgin, I have to say. And nowadays it's different. I think everything has changed so much. But we are talking about mid to late 90s. So yeah, you know, it's it was a different story back home. When the boss heard the sentence of, please don't do this, I'm a virgin, when I said that, he screamed, he shouted at the guys because they were all like so frantic. He shouted, he's like, Stop, we've stumbled across a huge cargo. So he literally had to come and drag the guys off me because they were like animals. At that point, the that stopped, the ex stop, and I was just like trembling. I I mean, I don't think I have ever felt that kind of adrenaline. It was just, I was shaking so much and crying, obviously, and just felt completely um destroyed, and every modesty I had was stripped away. I just really felt so weird to never been with a guy, never had a boyfriend, to have grown-up men stripping me like that and pinning me down. It was yeah, very, very scary um experience, the least to say. And then they just covered me, and uh the boss said, like, we've got loads of work to do with her, we need to groom her because she hasn't got a clue what she's doing. Because when we sell her to the highest bidder, they were talking in Albanian, so I could hear and understand everything. And they said, Oh, well, you know, when we sell her to the highest bidder, she needs to know. She's a virgin, but she needs to know how to do things. So he said, Get me my lover over. They got this lover. They I had her with me the whole time. She was vile, she was so nasty, she so manipulative. I will never forget her face and her energy. And um, and then my grooming started. And oh my god.

SPEAKER_02: 39:53

And this is this is this is just one-on-one as in with with you and um and this and this lady, this uh lover of his. You're not part of you're not grouped together with lots of other girls who've been kidnapped at this point. This is this is just a one-on-one thing with you.

SPEAKER_00: 40:10

This thing was just one-on-one. I hadn't been so uh just to give a perspective, all the girls I think they had, they were already shipped over to the markets. This wasn't the the sex uh trafficking stuff, it wasn't happening in Kosovo itself. And I've done my research ever since, and I've asked my two American police officers, and I've had proper chats ever since to understand I've done my homework basically, but I also gathered while I was with with them things they were saying amongst each other and me understanding everything. So this was their plan. They took people from Kosovo, they couldn't keep them in Kosovo for too long because it's a small place and UN were there. So when they were ready, they would then transport them into Kosovo uh from Kosovo to Albania, which is on the border. Once in the they are in Albania, that's it. They're gone. Nobody can find them through Albania. Then they went through to all the markets. Their aim was to have any healthy human being for sex exploitation for any kind of needs and you know, market. Uh it's very sick. And then what they did is they took the organs of all the victims. When they were done using these victims in that sense, that they the value, they were valueless to them. They couldn't just set them free into the world and they they didn't want to keep them because they unwanted. So they knew that the organs were still vital. So they took the organs, and most of the operations that happened were without any anesthetic, based on reporters and everything that I've read so far on these people. There was um one person that gave um some kind of an interview to say what he witnessed. He thought he was doing a legit job with the surgeons in Albania thinking that they're doing some kind of legit kind of their proper surgeons, but they would be in a special house doing these operations. And this guy that was helping these surgeons, when he escaped, he gave an interview. I think he's been executed since, but he is online for people to go and read. It's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 42:32

And and so forgive me if I if I missed it, but the the people who actually kidnapped you and this boss that they took you to, and I don't know if I missed you saying who they were who were they? Are they were were they people from authority, the army police or something were these just local gangsters?

SPEAKER_00: 42:46

They claim to have served in the army in Kosovo during the war on this small period, and I'm sure they did because although I haven't named them in the book, um, because I don't want to start a war, it's like once you name them, it's a threat. I just I'm I'm focusing on doing good and in other ways. But yeah, they claim to have been uh from the uh Kosovo army, but actually a lot of people do see them as gangsters and and fear them, and they are just at large and they're just very threatening. So people that are on the same category as them, of course, they're gonna support them and see them as heroes and this. And some people don't actually understand what they've done. So people that don't know, they're still shocked, like, no, they haven't done anything. Because they eliminated the whole witnesses. And when I actually escaped them eventually, they told me that I was the only witness. So they gave it gave them enough content to arrest them. And they got arrested after I escaped.

SPEAKER_02: 43:49

And and just going back to where we l where we left off from then, uh, was it you you'd started to be groomed and was uh how to you know bring back these these memories. But I mean, what what what what does grooming entail?

SPEAKER_00: 43:59

Um This is what happened to me. Um, it was, for example, there would be different scenarios. He had a lover. They would do sexual acts and different things in front of me, and I was made to watch. I was made to watch, I didn't want to watch, but uh the gun was always on my head, and I had to watch while I was crying and and being sick at the same time because I've never seen anything like that. But I could almost digest that, but there was times where they brought girls unconscious into the apartment for the sake of me learning what to do. They got raped, and it's like a gang raped, and I was made to just sit on the on the seat and watch these girls being raped, and I couldn't do anything about it. It was really um heartbreaking because that was someone else's child. I think these um when I talk about other people that I saw or I witnessed, really I break down so much, but when I talk about myself, not so much, because I've become immune to it, you know. I've just uh I've learned to cope with it, but I still feel the guilt that I couldn't do anything to save these girls or to do anything.

SPEAKER_01: 45:22

And why guilt?

SPEAKER_00: 45:23

I don't know. I just felt like I know that was going to happen to them anyway. I know the way they feel thought, the way they were, but because they were doing it so I could learn and watch, and that's I knew that's what's gonna happen to me. And I'm watching these girls, you know, lying there lifeless on the floor, completely unconscious. And how could you do that to unconscious body or even conscious body?

SPEAKER_02: 45:53

So And how long did this go on for?

SPEAKER_00: 45:55

How old?

SPEAKER_02: 45:56

No, how long the the the this this watching this grooming process out?

SPEAKER_00: 46:00

Well, this I didn't I don't know, time just for me, time has become really matter. I've become a bit like with time and stuff, a lot of senses have gone a bit, whoa.

SPEAKER_02: 46:10

But it would go on for like 20 to 30 minutes and take a sorry no, sorry, I meant um I meant like how many days or weeks or you know what was was was the grooming? Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 46:22

I was with them for a month or six weeks, something like that. Uh until they thought I was ready to crack on.

SPEAKER_02: 46:31

And the conditions you were you were living in during this time, the i it's in in a in a kind of a hostage house or something.

SPEAKER_00: 46:37

No, actually, to to everyone's surprise, this this apartment that they had, it was in the in the center of uh Pristina, literally so central, because I was never covered up or anything at that point. Once they decided to groom me, they would take me out with them wherever they went so they they wouldn't leave me on my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But everybody greeted them. I mean, people could see me with them, but they didn't care. There was I it just was like, but they mostly went slightly on the outskirts for lunches and and whatever they had to do. But I was with them most of the time. I was hardly ever left on my own. Um, and if I did, I had lots of guards with me. But it was an apartment. It was uh as you walked in, you'd have a bathroom on the right, the kitchen on the right, and then straight ahead to the right, it was the bedroom, and on the left, straight ahead was the living room. So it's only a one-bedroom apartment, and it was like three of us in bed. Disgusting. Um I always left three of the girls, right. Uh so his missress, myself, and then him, he would always sleep towards the window, and I was always where the cabinet was like for leaving stuff, and she was in the middle. So it was like three of us in bed for that period. Sometimes just her and I when he was in there, but mostly like that. And then um, yeah, it was a really nice, like decent apartment. It wasn't like uh run down or anything. They they kept it in good nick. It was their apartment, I guess. And uh he had a wooden door and uh like a prison door from the outside, so nobody could break in or nobody could break out.

SPEAKER_02: 48:22

And obviously, I know you said they took you around town and stuff, but when you were in the house in the apartment, were you ever um not under under supervision? You did you ever were you in the room on your own, you know, sitting around, or there's always some always somebody looking at you?

SPEAKER_00: 48:37

Always someone around. All the doors open. There's always someone around. I was never on my own.

SPEAKER_02: 48:44

And four weeks, five weeks, this this goes on for what what what happens after that?

SPEAKER_00: 48:49

So once um they thought, I mean, I was um I was really in in bad shape psychologically because I I saw so much and eyewitnessed, and my sleep wasn't good. I wasn't sleeping. Obviously, you can't sleep with three people in bed, and also I was just disgusted by the whole thing, and I really was feeling homesick and just wanted to run away. I really that desire to run away.

SPEAKER_02: 49:12

Did you think or want to die at this point? I mean, did you do you think did you think death was imminent, or was this always just a sex thing?

SPEAKER_00: 49:19

Yeah, death didn't cross my mind. I just wanted to escape this. I I in my head, I really, really desired to escape. I wanted to see my mum and dad. I just constantly thought of my mum and dad. It's what kept me going. I was like, I really need to make it through. I never really accepted it in my heart or in my mind that I was going to end up in what they were saying. I'm gonna end up into, you know, the whole market. I just in my head, I was eliminating all those thoughts. They were saying it was like, oh, like in my head, I'm like, I need to see my mum and dad. I I really need to go to my mum and dad. So this is was the battle that I was having in my head.

SPEAKER_02: 49:58

And at this point, and and but you still hadn't had sex or been raped yourself at this point. They were they were they were saving you, they were just making you watch.

SPEAKER_00: 50:05

Yeah, so they saved me, and finally the day of uh sh taking me to the other side from Kosovo to Albania came, and that day was quite an interesting day. We we approached uh we came into this nearest town that reaches Albania on the other side. I've mentioned them all on the book. Uh it's a full-on detail, but the boss um has a night in in that particular town, and um he goes, Oh Loretta. He said, Boys, leave me with Loretta now. And so we were in this other strange apartment. Just the two of us. Just the two of us, the boss and I, and he opens a bottle of wine, and here I am. I remember it was the door, and it was uh like a sofa kind of not sofa, like a chair with yeah, it's like an armchair and then a little sofa. And um, I sat there because I didn't want to be on the sofa, and um he's like, drink. I said, I don't drink. He said, Oh, come on, join me on the drink. You know, he was being so nice and weird. He said, I need to tell you something. It's like, look at me. I was like, okay. Um, I didn't want to look at him, it's just his face to this day haunts me. And you know what? He said, Um, I have feelings for you. Can you imagine? How sick is this? He said, I've developed feelings for you. And he said, I have we can make a deal. He said, Tonight, you and I, we spend the night together. The plan is to send you to Albania tomorrow. You have been sold to the highest bidder, everything is waiting on the other side for you to be shipped to wherever I was going. And he said, But if you if you give yourself to me, and these words really, if somebody was to say to me, give yourself to me, I'd probably punch him now or her, because it's like, you know, you you relate to the scenarios. He said, if you give yourself to me, then I'll make all of this go away. And then he, I was like, Oh my god, I was so scared. He sort of grabbed me at my arm and he sort of led me to the bedroom, just outside of the room. It was on the left, just sort of behind. And he laid me in bed. It's like, come on, give yourself to me. He was like so pushy, and I just turned around, I turned away from him onto my right hand side. I said, I really can't do this, I feel so sick. And he was still going on about it until he actually pleasured himself. And then, because I was naked, he was naked, and I was just curled into a ball. I didn't want him near me. It was disgusting. And when he reached his pleasure, he shouted at me, he said, Look what you've made me do without any help. If you had just given yourself to me, I would not even ship you. Why can't you just give yourself to me? I'm I'm in love with you. You know, he was saying all these things, and I'm like, oh, sick, giving myself to a monster.

SPEAKER_02: 53:16

Tell me, I'm trying to think of the words to use, and there's probably no no good way to ask or say, but why could you or did you not do it if you if you knew that if you didn't do it, you were about to get sold off to do it uh and anyway, and and who knew what the ending was at that point?

SPEAKER_00: 53:33

You see, Matt, if I said yes, I made a choice to be raped by my kidnappers. And I had still a say, which is we're looking back now, I didn't think it that way. I just I couldn't get it in me to say yes because either way I didn't want to be with him. I didn't want to be his girl that he carried around. I knew what he was capable of, what they were capable of. I'd much rather die. So either way it was going to end up bad. So I decided to not be uh not give him the authority that he can. I don't know how to explain.

SPEAKER_02: 54:12

Um I didn't mean you know, I just not give him not give him the satisfaction.

SPEAKER_00: 54:16

Yeah, I didn't, I because I don't know how to explain. I I there was no uh a better outcome for me. I either way it was something against my will, and I was hope I was much rather prepared to save myself and and then just hopefully buy myself some more time and then before the next thing happens. It's really weird, but um I couldn't find it in my heart to say yes to him.

SPEAKER_02: 54:40

So you didn't give him what he wants. Uh what happened? Did he did he then go on to sell you?

SPEAKER_00: 54:44

Oh yeah, the next morning we got up, he's very angry, got in the car, the gang came, his gang, his guys, and uh I sat at the back of the car again with two guys each side holding guns on my ribs. He's in the front, the driver. And uh when we reach the border, it's like these mountains are so high. I don't know if you've ever been to Montenegro and Albania, but as you reach the border with Kosovo and Albania, the mountains they've got waterfalls, and it's really high and really quite um it's like Lord of the Rings kind of uh mountains. It's quite creepy and beautiful at the same time. And I could just look around. We got stopped. It was it was very narrow the road, and the the the actual border was very small. It was just like a little cabin and like a couple of officers, and they were United Nations and one local, I think. They said, You can't cross, the border is shut. They had barricaded the border. And the boss said to them, Why can't I cross it? I want to cross it now. We have to cross. They said, No, you need to go because and the guy that were the the troops that were uh bordering this uh thing was um they were uh Italians because of the flags. I I I always was fascinated with travel. So I used to remember flags, and I saw his flag. And they looked inside the car, they saw me, they just looked, it didn't look anything suspicious, I don't know. I was just, you know, staying still, and the guys were literally like, if I had to do a peep, I think they would have killed everyone. And so we turned around, there was no other way to take me into uh Albania, and the boss said, um, let's let's drive back, boys. We need to drive back to our main flat because I've got other he didn't expect not to go to plan, obviously. So he had other things to do. And on the way back, I was quite relieved. I thought, oh my god, we're still in Kosovo. This is good. You know, it's a bit more time for me to just, I had this desire to make it out, and the hope just never left me of seeing my mom and dad. This huge hope and positivity deep in my heart, the longing to see them. And uh we drove back, we stopped in a few restaurants because um he needed to do different things. And I said, I need to go to the bathroom every time we stopped, I needed to go to the bathroom, and they would never stop me. But what I was doing now, the other way around, I was causing a scene. So as I would go to the bathroom, I'd walk towards the waitresses or the bar, and the guard is with me. So as I was to say something, because I wanted to say, can you help me? or anything, the guard would come and just push me around and like literally very vicious, because they were irritated by that point. And so the staff of different places we stopped at, I think they realized something really wasn't right at all with these guys and me there. By the time we reached their apartment, which was midnight at this point, the same apartment where they held me, the boss gets a call, and he was on the hallway and he just goes, Yep, yep. Oh, really? Okay. And he gets really angry. He goes, She is more troubled than she's worth it. And I'm now looking puzzled, like, what have I done? Like, what am I troubled? You know, I was so scared. I was shivering and like looking at them like, oh my God, you know, you're in constant stress. And we're all standing on the hallway. And I remember because the bathroom and the kitchen was behind me, and it's a small hallway, like as wide as this. And he's standing there with this real fierce face. And I was like, oh my god, I'm in trouble. He said to one of the youngest team, he said, You come here, rape her, killer, and get rid of her. At that point, I went from, you know, I don't know what's going on. I didn't get shipped, da-da-da, to literally rape her, killer, done. So my life, my life expectancy expectancy came to a close. It was like, okay, now this is minutes. Oh my god, what am I gonna do? I was so scared of dying. That's when I lost hope. That's when I thought, oh great, this is happening. And I really wasn't ready. Nobody's ever ready to die. So he left, they closed the doors, and the guy was like, Come on, you heard, and he's got the gun. Uh and then I started like, like, really, he was older than me, but not too much older. He maybe was in his early 20s, and I just remember begging him, I'm like, please let me pray, let me pray. I'm so scared. I said, I'm so scared. I said, if I can just pray. I said, We're both Muslims, can we just pray? He's like, Okay, he said, I haven't done this before, but I think he was new to this. He said, I need to pray. So he went to the bathroom. I was on the floor already. There was a TV on the left-hand side, the sofa here. This is in the bedroom. And um, by the TV, there was an empty kind of slot. And in Islam, you have to, you can't have anything in front of you, so you have to find the right place to pray. And I just collapsed on my knees and uh put my my head down. And I really, really prayed for forgiveness, and that I really wasn't ready to go. And if only the the words that I said to God, to Allah, I said, if you could only just tell my mom and dad what had happened, because I'm about to die, and they're never gonna find out what happened. And these were my thoughts in my head. If only I could tell them what happened, and I'm not scared then to die, but this loyalty, this this them needing to know, rather than I don't know, it was this great need of me, them needing to know that I was going. I just couldn't live with my not live, but I couldn't die with myself, I should say, knowing that my parents never knew that I was about to die or I was dying or dead. And so something really magical happened to the people that pray that will say is the power of God, to the people that believe in university say is manifestation, whatever the belief is, I had shown, I got shown there is beyond what we see, beyond what is sort of known to us, we can't explain things, same as we say, oh, it's fate, or what a coincidence. Nothing ever is a coincidence. That moment in time, I have been shown that there is something beyond our understanding, the power of the mind and the prayer or the meditation, as some people may know it, that are not religious, is so powerful. And for me, I believe in God. I thought God saved me that night. He literally created a miracle for me. The guy that had gone to wash himself, um, he hadn't gone yet while I was praying, but this was like split seconds. This whole thing, I'm telling you minutes, but it's actually seconds because it happens so fast. He as I'm praying on sedge there with the head down. This guy leaves the gun and leaves the keys. I didn't see it, but I heard a cling on his glass table. And I thought, what is this? So I I was praying, so I didn't want to break my prayer, but I was also encouraged to look to my left shoulder. As I looked, I could see the keys and the gun. And then I turned around and it's as if I'm talking to God. I'm like, I can't touch the gun. But something said to me, But you can't take the keys. And I was like, talking to myself in my head. So I got up and I said, Sorry. It's like it's almost like I was breaking the praise. I'm like, so sorry, I have to stop this. So I got up, took the keys, and I'm thinking, okay, two keys, one is smaller, one is bigger, I can see which one is which. So I went to the wooden door, all creeping, and I was the adrenaline had gone so high, I was really shaking with those keys, and I just felt like I was never going to make it out. So I opened the wooden door, and then as I opened the metal door, it's a slightly longer key. It opens the opposite direction to the usual door. You have to tilt it. So I was like fiddling because I couldn't tilt it. I didn't know which way to go. So I as I was fiddling, I was making so much rattling noise, and the guy hurt from the bathroom, he's like, What the heck is going on? So he's screaming and the door opened. And I went flying onto the sort of tiny bit of hallway before I hit the stairs. And I've never ran the stairs downstairs so fast. I was missing steps. I wasn't touching the floor. I felt like something had lifted me up, and I was just flying through those stairs. At the same time, I could hear his footstep behind me and his heavy breathing and his voice swearing at me. But he was way back. So I was ahead of him. As I reached the end of the staircase, it was straight onto this door that didn't have a door. It was like open kind of door frame, but the door wasn't there. He he catches me and he punches me so hard that I ended up flying onto this main road, which luckily at night it wasn't busy. But in the day, when we left the apartment, it was always busy. It's really central. But lying there on the floor, like not knowing what had just hit me, first punt ever in my life. Um, I turned around to look because I saw some flashing lights, and as I was turning to get up, I thought, oh my god, that's a Jeep. Similar to the Americans that had it white with red, very significant. And I just decided to scream because I knew whoever it was, it was a person. So I needed to scream. To my luck, it was an Italian police officer, UN, had just finished his shift and he was parking his car on the pavement. There was like a parking slot, and he heard me. So he started walking towards me. I'm crawling towards him. This guy obviously had gotten the gun, started shooting at the police officer. The police officer is defending himself, so he's shooting at him, whilst obviously I am still crawling towards him. So when I reached him, he immediately stopped shooting. He grabbed me, dragged me back behind his car. He opened the door of the car. I remember everything. So he opened the door, we were sort of behind the door. He reached in because the steering wheel is on this side, it's not like in England, it's the other side. And he got this walkie talkie thing that it was all cable then. I don't know how they are now, but it was like a huge cable, and he started calling or units or something. I don't know. I was just like so scared. And in in like seconds, we We're surrounded by UN, all sorts of different Jeeps, different nationalities, lights, translators. And at that point, I'm just crying and screaming because I had I had this huge adrenaline, I was dying. And then it was the release of this, like, you know, when you hit, when you're angry and you just want to break something, I had that thing that I needed to release. And I was just screaming, and they had to calm me down, took me to the station, gave my interview.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:28

What about the cat, the guy who was chasing you? Did he get screened?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:31

I don't know what they did. I just said the police knew where I was coming from. So I just pointed to the Albanian translators. I said, It's over there on the fourth floor. You can see the apartment. You can go and search. I was just giving information like they're there. They're all there. What took you so long? I was like throwing a tantrum because I was so in distress. And they realized that I wasn't okay. So they they got a blanket over me, took me to the station, and I don't know what happened there, but I was in the station. And this Albanian police officer, about my dad's age, he I remember him walking towards me. He said, Um, can I give you a hug? And he started crying. I said, Please don't touch me. Because like he said, no, I said, I you are the only survivor. We've been wanting, we know of this, but we just can't ever find survivors to testify against them, to give us this. He said, You know, your interview tonight, he will get them arrested. I'm like, I don't care. I said, I just want to make it home. I want to go see my mum and dad. I'm tired of this, I'm scared. And he was just looking at me. So I was at the police station just after midnight till about three o'clock in the morning. They made sure, you know, I was okay and looked at me and interviewed me over and over again just to make sure the storyline was right and all the information, descriptions. So they wanted to make sure what I was saying was correct and places that I remember, number place, anything. People. So I just said everything. They gave me a case number, and then they said, Um, do you know anyone in Pristina? I said, only the two Americans, Peter and Brian. I said, I'd love to see them. So I got reunited with them at 3:30 in the morning around that time. And uh Peter was waiting outside. Uh, the truck that with police officers dropped me off. Peter hugged me, grubbed me, and he stayed up with me the entire night that night until morning. And then Brian woke up because Peter didn't wake him up. And Brian was so in shock to see me and so pleased, and hugging me, and then Peter was explaining because there was no translators, but Peter had been debriefed by the UN already. And the moment Brian heard all of this from Peter, Brian changed. He became very cold and almost depressive. It was just, he went from this amazing, like funny, loving to literally almost like he hated me or something I felt, but he was feeling resentment and and guilt that he couldn't keep me safe. So they said, um, translator came in the morning. He said, Loretta, you need to leave now. So um they got me on this bus and that took me back to where I came from, near the border with Serbia, and then I crossed back into Serbia.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:23

Back to where your parents are.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:24

Yeah, same way. So I remembered roughly what it was, looked around. There was no UN checking me out that I'm about to climb the mountain because it was all you're not supposed to do that. As soon as it was clear, I was like up that mountain into the woods, and then that was it. I just had to worry about patrolling in the woods and stuff. And um, uh long story short, I'm I think it's pretty long as it is. I made it to my parents and I found them hiding in the ground in the basement. My mum wasn't happy to see me and my dad. They were like, Why did you come back? I'm like, I have so much to tell you. For me, it was like, I have to tell you, I've escaped death.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:04

You know, but and because your parents knew nothing, they knew nothing that we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:09

They didn't know what was going on in Kosovo at all. We had no contact, they just didn't know whether I made it, you know. Nowadays we can't have our children just wandering off the world without knowing where where you are. But then you didn't have phones, you didn't have anything. We didn't there was no way to communicate. It was just trusting God kind of thing, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:29

So you just got back to your parents, they they didn't know what was going on. I mean, uh, I was gonna ask you that as a question anyway. Um, I mean, what what uh did you start to tell them immediately what had happened?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:40

I was on the process, I'm like, but mum and dad, because they were like, Oh, why why are you here? What are you doing here? You shouldn't be here, you know. They were like literally like panicking. My mom is like, I'm like, what's going on? I know they were underground hiding because it was bombing and all sorts happening. I said, Mom and dad, I have so much to tell you. You don't know what's happened to me in Kosovo. And they're like, What? And we didn't really have time, I didn't have time to tell them anything. And we heard a van, like a truck pull, army truck, pull into our garden. We have a huge garden back home. And my mom's like, oh my god, they are here. I'm like, mom is fine, who's here? I'm thinking, who? Like the soldier, so what? I was ready, like what I witnessed in Kosovo. I was ready to die. I didn't care anymore. I was with my parents. Whatever happens, happens. They came and uh they dragged me from my parents. They said she's come back in Serbian. And my dad is like, please forgive her, just leave her. And I'm like, what? Forgive me, what like I'm thinking, what have I done? Oh yes, I've crossed borders, but surely once I tell them the story, I said, Mom and dad in Serbian, don't worry, once I tell them my story, what happened to me in Kosovo, they will release me because you know, I just I was naive, still naive. I mean, you don't grow overnight, grow up overnight. So put me in the van, uh, and I I was still so grateful that my parents saw me being taken away by the soldiers. And it's very valuable information to mention that during the war in Yugoslavia, Serbia, the armies that were formed, so it was the regular army, and there was numbers kind of games army. So the the Serbian government recruited prisoners of war killers, robbers, you name it, to make the numbers to fight with Kosovo and just to fight generally. And so they needed to know the difference between the real soldiers and the ones that were not real soldiers for for their own sake. So the soldiers, as you'd imagine, they'd wear boots and normal uniform, and the ones that were recruited with uniform, but on the shoes side, they didn't wear boots, they wore trainers, white trainers. It was really weird to see some the soldiers dressed up in uniform and then white trainers. Those were the same soldiers that took our town to be massacred, and the same soldiers that took me in. I mean, not maybe the same people, but the same kind of line of soldiers that took me from my parents. And um on the actual track, I'm thinking it's fine, mum and dad, you know, they'll they they saw me this time, so surely I'll get asked some questions and I'll come back.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:23

And this is literally on the day you've arrived home.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:25

Literally, I minutes off of arriving because the borders were being watched and the town was being shot at, and so I just went through all of this just to get to my mum and dad's house. So we reached this abandoned building in the mountains not far from my parents, actually. We didn't drive very long, and I know roughly where that is. And um they put me into this um building. I was thinking, gosh, this is not the actual army base, but okay. And into this room, bright lights, really bright lights, and there was a soldier there waiting for me. And these other two soldiers brought me in. They interrogated me, so they were asking me, tell us where you've been, what you've done, did you spy? Are you telling them about what we're doing here? And I told them, this is all in Serbia, and I said, I have just escaped because you guys were about to massacre us. So I'm just repeating the story, and then I told them what happened in Kosovo. They're like, No, you're lying. Who are you spying for? And they would hit me and they punched me and hit me. I lost a couple of teeth, they broke my nose, ripped my ear. They they did so many things to me physically, and then the last thing I remember before they locked me up from that interrogation room, by that point I was already bleeding. I'd lost teeth, which are still missing, and my nose had been broken, my eyes were so swollen I couldn't see from being punched on the face, my ear was bleeding, and this ear had gone all like I couldn't hear. And they said, the the guy said, um, the main soldier, he said, okay, hold her down. Let's um let's see, now she will tell the truth. And they they pulled out this um the kettle branding thing for the kettles, and it was a hashtag shape, like we know a hashtag now. And I could just barely make out, but I couldn't see, but I could feel the heat as is about to go on my calve at the back of my calve. And when I got the the direct contact with the heat, I passed out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:33

I just they did touch, they did touch.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:36

Yeah, I had a huge scar. I had it uh laser removed in the UK. When I started working, sorry, my eyes since I've been crying. Um, when I started working and earning money, I I had a lot of things fixed because I was uh unrecognizable. I mean, I wasn't I didn't look right. I I was really broken. But yeah, that was one of the things that I fixed. Um, the scar in my calf, because I I wanted to be able not to remind myself of everything. I remind myself now anyway, but you know, scars and things like that do remind you a lot.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:05

Were your parents this point, by the way? Did they get taken as well?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:08

No, they'd go left and you were still at home. Yeah, still at home. And so yeah, I fainted. I I was I blacked out. And the next memories of that period was me, I don't know how long it had been since I blacked out, waking up. Couldn't really see because my eyes were so closed and swollen. I couldn't see anyway, but I was feeling with my hands to see where I was, and it felt really cold and uh concretey with only something that seemed like a blanket that I was lying on. It smelled so bad, it smelled so rotten and um it's like really weird, plus my blood, plus I couldn't smell properly, but can you imagine? Because my nose had been broken, but can you imagine even through my broken nose, I could tell this place was oh so so bad to be in. So I started panicking, I got slowly up, my my car was throbbing, started banging at the door, and I realized that the space is really small. Uh so if you were to sit at the corner of it, you could just touch the walls, and then not far away, like this sort of space here, maybe a bit tiny, smaller, maybe this actually. It's uh that was it. That was my space, a bit narrower than this, and I could barely just lie down and and stand up. I could feel it. There was no windows because as my swelling went down, I realized, and I'm skipping through the story, but there was no windows, I could just see the crack on the door. The door was metal, like pure metal, and didn't have any window or anything, just the crack on the door. I initial reaction, it was claustrophobia and freaking out where I was. I thought I would be buried alive. Then I calmed down, then I I started becoming really crazy, like hitting the wall, screaming, asking to be let out. And after so many screaming and shouting, I I exhausted myself, and plus I was so injured. I kept drifting in and out of this um, I don't know where was it asleep or whatever was happening, but um it really this this period turned from that that one day of me knowing that I was completely locked up to a six months of solitary confinement by these soldiers. And um where was it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:28

It was in a location still near to where your home was because you've been trusted.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:32

Yeah, it was an abandoned building uh where they use for this kind of stuff, I guess. And um my time in that small dark place goodness me, i i i it was like uh it's almost like I had gone to learn lessons for the lifetime.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:52

Why were they keeping you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:54

Oh, I became their toy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:56

So that was there was no b uh thought of spying or anything or more at this point.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:02

This was just pure vicious vindic they just turned me into a toy, so then uh after my first uh uh encounter with um with rape uh that was really quite um I didn't expect it and I didn't know what I was expecting, but um that was uh that was um heartbreaking. And once that happened I just it didn't matter to me anymore. My whole innocent and everything moral was stripped away. And it was just um I starved myself, I didn't want to drink, and I just wanted to die because um I didn't see where he was going, you know. Six months in a solitary confinement with uh no interaction with human beings outside of these walls and those soldiers.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:01

How many of these soldiers were there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:03

Uh rapes mostly happened three at a time, but uh they were changing, but it was different ones.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:10

Are there any other girls there as well?

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:12

No girls. And uh this was this is the problem what happened during the war. They recruited prisoners of war to serve the army. You know, my people are good people, and so are the Kosovans. But I believe that there is good and bad in every culture, in every religion, in every nationality, in everything. So I love my people, but I have always admired them. We've been through so much as a country. I love my Serbian friends, I love my Albanian friends. I I have both. It pains me because we are so good to others. Everybody that meets me says, Oh my god, the Serbian people are amazing, and that makes me so happy. I'm like, Yes, we are amazing. Or they say, Oh, I've been to Kosovo, they're amazing people. I'm like, Yes, they are amazing people, because I know uh that this minority of monsters it doesn't identify the majority, which are really nice people, and they've been through so much. Both the Serbian people have been through a lot. Serbian and Kosovans have been through a lot because uh civilians never wanted war. It was just the government, it was all about power and seats at at the right table, authority, that kind of stuff. But deep down the the civilians never wanted war. I mean, I have met people throughout since I've made it out saying, Oh yeah, I'm from Bosnia and I'm Orthodox, a Christian, and I was put in an army uniform. Like this actually is a particular guy that I met in Singapore. He's very well known in Singapore, he's my friend. He's been my rock when I lived in Singapore because you know, I just wanted to connect with people from home, and he happened to live in Singapore. He had escaped Bosnia during the war because he got put in uniform and they got asked to go and shoot your neighbors that he used to play football with as a kid or as an adult because he's he used to be an Olympic, very well-known guy. And he said, No, I'm not killing my neighbors. So he took the uniform off, left everything, and and ran to Australia as a refugee. And eventually in Singapore, now he lives in Singapore, but he said the same. He said, We never wanted to kill the Muslims. They would force us. So majority of people have been put in uniform, civilians at a certain age, here's a gun, go shoot your neighbor. We killed each other.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:47

So going back to you in in captivity at this point, um, how how did how did you get out?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:53

Oh my god, the six months were like so important for the viewers to understand. The six months were real moulding time for me. I went through resentment, through hate, through they taught me everything because whatever they were towards me, I was feeling towards them until I had to stop myself uh letting the anger rub on me. Instead, I realized I wasn't dying, I was starving, I wasn't dying. And I thought, okay, maybe it's not my time. So I I then decided to do something about it, which I didn't decide, like, oh my god, let me write it down. But it was more like, you know, I'm gonna start feeling sorry for them because, and I did. I was feeling sorry for them, that they are so vicious, and I was seeing myself as kind and this person that hasn't done anything from anything wrong, which I was, but I needed to give myself that credit because I knew that unless I did that, they were taking away my mind, my my everything, my um obviously they took everything else away, but I didn't want them to take the power of my mind away and and turn me into complete nutcase.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:01

Did you believe you would one day get out, or did you think you were in there to die?

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:05

I I did I never thought I'd escape that. That was so like heavily uh locked down kind of thing. I I didn't have hope of escaping it. But one thing that I was more relaxed about being there, relaxed, I mean more calm psychologically about I didn't have this thought of, or if my mum and dad knew what was happening. It's more like they know I have been taken, at least they know that. Now, if I never return and if I die, they know that something happened like this. I didn't abandon them. Because before in Kosovo, my fear was that they thought would think I was a I abandoned them. I just vanished because I didn't want to be part of their, I don't know, part of their life or something. I don't know this. But this time I was uh, okay, they know I'm with the soldiers and whatever happens, happens. And um, yeah, and then eventually um my dad, I didn't know this then, but I found out ever since. He'd gone and during the war, he had just decided to go and search for me because it'd been six months and he got really worried, obviously, as you would. And initially he'd been going doing his homework for a long time, but eventually he got to the police station that he knew a few guys there as a doctor. He knew a lot of police officers, and he said, Listen, I know we're at war with each other, but could we could could you find out where's my daughter? Because if she's being held, I want to know why. You know, she's under a well, she's 18 or whatever I was then, 19 almost. And the the uh police officer said to him, Look, I can do the research, but I can't interfere because I'm a police officer. If he's taken by the soldiers, then she should be at this, you know, at the base. He did the research, asked a few soldiers, legit soldiers, and they said, Look, we're not happy with what's happening with the soldiers that have been recruiting. They are, it's all well and good, like, to follow the rules or fight and do this, but what they are doing, it goes against what we are taught as army. We can't, it's but we can't interfere. And so these soldiers were raping and and taking. I wasn't the only one, but I don't know who else went through what I went through. And uh, they were just doing this to a lot of people. My dad said, how can I get her out? And the police officer said, The only option is here to bribe them. See if you can get some money, bribe them, and then maybe you get her out for 24 hours, and then I'll help you get her out of this place. Because the borders were sh still shut. My dad had gathered some money. The police officer and the the uh legit soldier helped him locate the the this abandoned building, small abandoned building, and my dad came in. I didn't know this, but they came and opened the door, and uh You're inside he's at the door. I was I was still in inside my room, just lying there, like I was drifting away a lot because I had lost so much weight. I was skin and bones, and I was infected. I had infected ear, infected nose, nothing was being looked after. The wound on my on my and it was not clean in that place. So I was and that was my my toilet, my everything. It was like it's all happening in this tiny little room. So the bacteria was really high, I was really ill, and they came and opened the door, they're like, come on, uh uh, is somebody here to see you? And I didn't believe them because they did this before and they would hit me and they play mind games, and they used to put mice and rats in my room to torture me. It was just horrific, like a like a horror movie. They dragged me because I couldn't walk. Um at that point I'm really weak, and so I could hear my dad's voice, but I couldn't believe my ears. And as I walked into this room, bright again, where they Interrogated me. My dad is there, and I remember when my dad and I met our glaze, my dad's face just dropped as a doctor seeing me in that condition. And I just remember saying to my dad, What took you so long in Albanian. And my dad started speaking in Albanian. He said, I'm gonna look after you. And they like shouting at us, speak in Serbian. Anyway, my dad had done the exchange. I didn't know what was going on. I just I just followed. I I didn't have how can I say I was hopeless. I just whatever people wanted me to do, I was doing. I was I had zero emotions left. I I was just completely like a zombie. So my dad grabs me, covers me, and then he's dragging me, and I'm just shuffling and emotionless. And when we went out, I couldn't look at the lights. So immediately I said to my dad, I can't see because I'd been in the dark for so long. Oh, he said, okay, because he didn't know I was in a dark room. He didn't know the conditions I was in. So he threw something over my head just to get me into the car, laid me at the back. I was lying there. And I said, Dad, tell me something. Isn't my mum dead? He's like, No, no, she's alive, she's at home, she's waiting. I'm like, okay, I because I thought he's coming to get me because she's dead. I don't know why I was thinking this. She wasn't there, so he said, No, I'm just taking you home for 24 hours. Come on. And I drifted off asleep in the car, the back of the car, lying down. And when we got home, my mum, like, she was sobbing. And she knew what was going on.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:39

She knew your dad had gone there to look for you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:40

Yeah, she she knew she was expecting me and she'd cooked and stuff. She took me straight into the my dad said she needs a shower. She said, Okay, so they took me in the bathroom. My mum washed me. And my dad said, look for any wounds that are somewhere that I can't see. And she said, I'll dress those. Because I I had gotten also many wounds of lying on this hard floor. You know, I had wounds on my body. Everything had to be dressed and addressed with antibiotics and injections and stuff. My dad gave me the whole nine yards of medication and they made me eat because I I needed to eat a bit, but I couldn't eat. And I said, Mom, I just want to lie on you. So I lied on her lap for the first time in all this period. I felt if I had stayed there, because I was I fell asleep, but if I had stayed on her lap a tiny bit longer, I think I would have gone because I was so tired. Exhausted. How strong was I as a kid? If you put me through that now, I don't think I can make it. Don't please don't test me. But wow, I'm so so grateful. My younger self was so strong. And then my uh my dad just walked in uh towards the night as the night fell. He said, he was shisshering around with my mom. I said, What's going on, guys? I said in a slow voice, I said, What's going on? My daddy's time to go. I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. I'm I'm exhausted, Dad. I said, I can't do this anymore. He said, The last time, and we're gonna say goodbye. This is our last time as well. And I said goodbye to my mom, and I just never forget that last hug.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:23

Sorry, what why is it last time?

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:26

My dad had um the police officer and my dad, police officer of Serbia, that my dad had gotten involved to find me, had managed to find a truck that was still doing import export in the country.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:40

Oh, this is how they were gonna get you out?

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:42

Yeah, okay to smuggle me out. And he was waiting with his truck on the side of this road, which was walking distance from our house. We lived in the fields of the town. And uh my dad had to walk me, so I had to say goodbye to my mum. The dark had fallen, so it was perfect timing not to be seen. I walked with my dad slowly, and I'm like, Dad, we shouldn't be doing this. He's like, Shh, it's okay. It's the last time. After a short walk, we got we reached this truck. The truck was parked there, and the guy is waiting. Foreigner, I think he's Spanish. So clearly he I don't speak English, I don't speak Spanish, and he doesn't speak my language. And I'm looking at him thinking, another man. You know, at that point, my my thing was like, not another man, like on my own, because I I I I'd been through a lot, so I was really scared. I didn't trust any more anything or anyone. So I got on the truck and I said goodbye to my dad, and I gave him a big hug, made sure I could smell him and remember that, you know, because for me that was the end of us as a three of. And um got onto the truck and did you know where you were going? No. My dad said, Look, everything is given to the driver, is explained, don't worry. He will look after you, and I was like, oh god, if my dad knew you. But I was just I I'd had enough, Matt. I was ready to die even. I I didn't care anymore. It was it was beyond, it had exceeded like water had overflown kind of from a glass. I was just over everything. But I was going to make the last wish come true, so I just went along with it. I was always smuggled in the in the truck, so I didn't see the path or which way or what happened. But I just remember when I got dropped off in the UK.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:36

Oh, that's where you that was where you landed in the UK.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:39

Yeah, uh, all in the truck. We did stop to toil, you know, toilet breaks and stuff, and he was feeding me. But um I never saw where we stopped. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:50

Do you know how much did he pay for your release?

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:53

Uh to the guys? Yeah. I'm not sure actually. I'll ask my dad.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:58

I've got a new question for your story there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:01

Yeah, because um I don't I every time I want to speak about this, he doesn't want to talk about it. And what happened after to them as well, um uh it's their story to tell, but they just don't want to talk about it, you know. And they're very proud of me. They they actually are live still because people wonder if they made it. They made it, but they might as well have died because they suffered a lot.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34:26

They're still in where you were from originally.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:29

Yeah, they're still in Serbia. Although when we got reunited after five years, the government here were very kind. They my lawyers and stuff, and the the people that I was still in, you know, in contact with from looking after me from the governments, they said, You're the only child, so you know they they're most welcome to come here and then we'll consider them to join you because you're the only child. I did ask them and they refused to come. They decided to stay. They didn't want to be a burden to me, they wanted to just crack on with my life. But um, it was this was five years after we we reconnected over a phone after a year of me being here, but we reunited properly with a hug after five years.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:14

In England?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:15

No, I flew in I flew into uh Macedonia to meet them. I was already a British citizen because up until that point I waited for my British citizenship. I couldn't, I d I didn't want to be getting near that place just in case.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:30

Even with the British citizenship, did you not fear fear going back there that you know you could be kidnapped again?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:36

Yeah, the first time I actually went back, it was, if I'm not mistaken, around 2006 or seven. And I was already a British citizen for quite some time, for for at least um five to six years. And um I said to my dad, please find out if you know anyone in the in the police. Could they go on the system and just check, am I on the wanted list? So he asked uh one of the main guys at the police station, he was the head, my dad's one of my dad's friends, uh Serbian guy, Chica Pekka, we call him, uh Uncle Pekka, that's what it means. Um he said, Look, she she's not on the wanted list because she was not legally held, it was by the army that was formed during the war, which then all those guys went back to prison anyway. But so I wasn't on the system. But I'm on the system in Kosovo for having been kidnapped. But this one they didn't put me on the system, which is good because had he had been the other army, I would never be able to go back.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:49

And do you still go back now?

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:52

With with a lot of struggle. Yeah, I don't I don't enjoy going back. I don't sleep when I go back, I have nightmares.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:00

Do you only go to see your parents?

SPEAKER_00: 1:37:02

I go to see my parents, but you know what? It's made it much easier for me now, because before I used to think, oh, but you know, I could be if somebody, you know, remembers or finds out they can get me, can you know, get my children or all this paranoia. And I don't like living paranoid, but it's just, I'm sorry, it's just part of it because I have memories there, so much of this. But having told, finally, I have told my cousins that are older than me or my age, I have had the time to reconnect with people that disappeared during the war or were missing or joined different armies and stuff. So I I have told them my story, and so because I've told them my story, I feel I uh have protection uh by because I don't have brothers and sisters, and uh I'm still quite um feminine. I need that kind of male protection. I I quite like that. And when I'm not traveling with my husband, I feel quite vulnerable, even though I do martial art. I still feel vulnerable. I'm a woman, so it's really nice to have my cousins knowing my story, and they they sort of always on a lookout, or if there's something not right, they always say tell us.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:13

Um how long have you been married?

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:15

Uh 2008.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:17

And what I mean, obviously, after losing your virginity and that experience and los los losing your uh innocence, I mean, uh what what when did you ever become be able to look at a look at a man in a in a relationship sense again and not not I guess be scared and hate on anyone near you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:37

It was really tough. I had um I didn't want to be with any anyone. I didn't know what gender I wanted to be with. I really didn't know myself. I was clearly didn't want to be with men. Obviously, I didn't feel like I wanted to be with women either, so it was just that. But then um I became a personal trainer. This is way back, because I realized how much fitness was helping me manage my emotions, so I wanted to help others. And in the gym, the first job I got, I met um like a job in the gym, rather, because I was training people freelance, but to get a job in the gym, it was in Leicester Square kind of area with a fitness first in Leicester Square, and my husband was training there on his work break, and I didn't know he was going to be my husband, but I saw him, we noticed each other, and he was just so nice and gentle. I felt like I had found it was that instant connection. I felt like I have found my best friend, but I still didn't trust trust issues was so big for me at the beginning. He he then he was very slow, he didn't rush anything, and he made sure he knew he definitely had found someone he wanted to pursue. So to him, the whole act of sexual act, it wasn't his first priority when he came to me, I guess. And he didn't know my story. So slowly, slowly, I was opening up to him in terms of in a sexual way. And then once we sort of started living together quite soon, because he said, Oh, do you mind if we just move in together? And I was like, Oh my god, this is happening too soon. And um, he said, You're having lots of nightmares. Are you okay? And I'm like, Yeah, well, I said, Um, there is a history. I said, I've been through war, and he still didn't know. And then he said, I'd love to marry you soon. And I knew he was going to propose, and I and he did propose and he took me to Florence. And I said, Okay, this is all well and good, but I need to tell you something. And then I told him my story. He's like, and he said, Babe, I love you. It's like it doesn't change anything. He said, I I he said, I have seen as a challenge. He said, You're gonna get better with time. He said, I will help. So he's been my rock ever since, and I literally deleted everything that happened to me in the past. So when I did finally, at the beginning of our relationship, I was intimate with James, uh James, my husband, I treated it as my first time because he deserved for me to be that vulnerable and relaxed with him that I didn't want him to feel guilt or something that he's doing wrong, or that I'm feeling like I'm being abused. So I tried to uh delete everything that had happened just so, and then that was the turning point for me. Obviously, it just you know things flourished from there, but it was him, and then um I also would like to say to your viewers, which I haven't actually said it much in podcast, considering all the stuff that I've told everyone right now, you and your listeners and your viewers about men, please don't ever think I think less of men than women. I absolutely adore the male gender, and I think we I as a woman appreciate the alpha in a man and that gentleness at the same time and the sensitivity because the very gender that broke my trust in humankind is the very gender that had regained and established that trust. For example, my husband, my dad, my um mentor Gilles, Gilles Agouni, he's been my mentor for a very long time, 20 years of mentorship. Without him, I wouldn't even do the book, I wouldn't have done the book. It was his vision for me to have a book, his vision for me to do motivational speeches, everything I do now, it was his vision. So he's been my rock. Um, I love my father-in-law, he's my like my dad. I have two boys, and I've been gifted with two boys. So they're really good boys. They know my story, they don't know the details, but they know. They understand they understand it really well because they did the sexual education at school, and um one of them just um he's very inquisitive and asked questions, but on that lesson he just withdrew himself. So I got a call from the school. They said, Is it possible that maybe maybe he's been molested or something, or is there something going on, something bothering him? And I was really shocked. I said, What do you mean? He said, They said, because we did this lesson, we think that maybe something's going on in his head. So I said, let me speak to him. I set him down. I said, you know, we always speak truly, and whatever you say, I much much rather handle the truth than the lie. He's like, Mommy, what's going on? I said, What's going on? Why are you withdrawing yourself from a lesson? Why are you feeling? Oh, he said it was about sexual abuse, mommy, and I was thinking about you and what they were saying and the traumas that people have and mental issues and mental health, how he affects them in that sense. They were talking about the depth of it, and I was just thinking about you and how you might be feeling. And that really made me realize that he hasn't scarred my children, he has made them really gentle human beings and he's made them resilient and more caring. So I don't think it's too early for children to understand that there is evil in the world and to be educated in a sense that it exists, but if you identify it, to move away from it. And also he teaches them how not to treat women. You know, it's it's um for me, I've been very open with my kids, and they they definitely are little gentlemen, so so proud of them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:48

Well, listen, it's it's been um it's been a very different podcast for me. This um, you know, obviously a unique story, but uh, I guess it's uh it's been uh much more of a storytelling episode than uh I guess uh you know a um a kind of a back and forth two-way conversation. And I've I've wanted to interrupt as as little as possible, which I'm sure those who know me all know is a very difficult thing for me for me not to do. And I don't really want to detract away from the story in and and go off on any other kind of directions or tangents, but I I do always like to have some kind of actionable takeaway for my audience or some you know, some way that they can benefit. And I guess for the people who can't see for themselves, taking your negativity to positivity, sorry, your negative story to posity. Talk to me about perspective because you could you could look at your story um and l you know live the rest of your life in in depression, of taking your own life, of of of taking the whole story to negative, negative, negative, or you could be, as you are, a glass half full, absolutely more than half full, um, and and and taking it as as as a perspective that you know everything from now is better, and uh, you know, I'm I'm here to live life to the fullest. I mean, maybe you wouldn't have used exactly the same words that I've used, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:06

No, I get it. I'm sure the listeners are getting your point. Um, I think it's um it's a matter of choice in life. So, regardless of what you've been through, could be domestic violence, could be struggle, unjustice, uh, racism, you name it, because we have been divided over the years by different things. War divides us, religion divides us, color, all of these things. So people have, they can relate to struggle. So if they're struggling, that means they have be they have been a victim of some kind. So being a victim of something, I believe, is definitely 100% not a choice because nobody wants to be a victim. But I soon realized that I really had a choice. So it was a choice. We can stay a victim or we can be the survivors. Once you're a survivor, you can't stay just on the survival mode and say, I'm just the survivor. Then you have to thrive and succeed from it. Really, everything in life, I believe, that we face, it's not really meant to um, it's not really meant for us just to be punished and that's it. It's a lesson. So if you fail in business, you learn the lesson. So next time you do it differently. If you fail in marriage, people often say, I've learned from it. It's a lesson. So whatever it is that you are facing, it's really just a lesson. For me, it taught me that monsters, for example, like we know it as children in movies, they're not, they they're not like we assume, they are actually walking amongst us within humans, and you've got better good in everything. So it's about seeing good in everyone until someone proves you they're not that good thing that you saw, then you have to remove yourself from that situation. But you always have a choice, and somebody said um to me, How do you go about life? I say, Well, if it's meant to be, will be. If not, I'm gonna make it happen anyway. Because it seems like I think that's what was going on through my head in this, if it's meant to be, will be, but I'm gonna make it happen because I really wanted to escape. I didn't think it's gonna work, but it's just a mindset thing. What really helps me and helped me at the beginning, and I try to make a kind of it's like um a ritual now. And I say to my clients as well, that uh, like for example, in the UK, you wake up in the morning and this happens so much, you meet people, oh my god, it's horrible today, isn't it? The weather is rainy, is this and that. I'm like, yeah, it's rainy. Oh, it's snowy, it's windy, oh, it's too sunny. So I'm just taking it as something that people can relate to. Now, you've already started your day with a complaint. How do you expect to go any other way? If it's raining, I acknowledge it's raining. Do I enjoy rain? No, because my hair got curly tops, but it's nature, I just get on with it. So try to eliminate as many of the so because we are internally speaking to ourselves at all times. So being aware of the verbal, what are we saying to ourselves is really important because you you if you had a friend that spoke to you the way you speak to yourself, sometimes, oh, you're this and you're that, you not look like this today, and this and the weight, and oh, without makeup, you don't look good, da-da-da. Can you imagine if your friend said that to you? You'd be like, Oh, excuse me, don't don't be rude to me. So I always say, Why do you think you have permission to put yourself down that like that? Because if you really go into your internal dialogue, you're quite nasty to yourself. That's really cruel. You are always listening. So make a habit of every time you notice, you've been nasty to yourself, just say, I take it back, I'm beautiful, and then replace it with something that it's a good affirmation. I'm beautiful, I'm grateful, I deserve this. And so starting your day, for example, I I said to you this when we walked in. What's really important is, and I learned this from my experience, when I would wake up in the morning, and every morning I wake up from nightmares. So this is like day in and day out. I am feeling so tired because I haven't slept well and I've been reliving everything in my dream. So there is a choice. I wake up and I feel you know sorry for myself for the rest of the day, or what I've noticed that really helps me is stay away from the news. Listen to a podcast that inspires you. Like Matt. Yeah, listen to a podcast. But for me, what I do is I listen to music. I put the music on. Either I go for a jog or I just I just want to listen to something that uplifts me. So try on this first period of your time in the morning when you wake up to set your day right by listening to positive stuff. And and then the rest will follow. And if you're already feeling positive, that's great. Just keep it up and just be aware of anything that comes your way, or people treat you unkindly, or they whatever. You know, there's always stuff happening around us. I always say the way people treat you is not a reflection of you, it's just a reflection of them. You can only listen, observe, and and and just let it go because you can't change, you can't make everyone like you, you can't win everybody. You're not here to to do that. You're here to follow your calling and find what's your calling and make a difference in the world.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:37

Well, Lorata, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you here to hear such a frightening uh yet uh inspirational story. I'm gonna go and tell myself how beautiful I am and uh and listen to a favourite episode of my own voice.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:51

How beautiful.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:52

But uh but before we go, uh I guess just give everyone watching and listening um a a clue where we can find you online, where they can buy your book, how they can find out more if they want to uh get in touch.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:03

Anyone that's listening can actually reach me on Instagram or LinkedIn. They're most welcome to to connect with me or message me. I try to get back to literally everyone, believe it or not. And if they read the book, which is available on Amazon only, Kindle and um hard copy, then um it will be great to hear the reviews on it. It's called Unbroken Surviving Human Trafficking by Loretta Lyon. And um feedback is always welcome, reviews are always welcome. Please share online and then tag me and I'll I'll reshare. I always reshare. Perfect because it's really it's just it means so much to me when people reshare stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:44

Well, we'll put all that in the show notes and the links and stuff anywhere, and I'll look forward to reading my signed copy. So once again, Lorata, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:51

My pleasure, man. Thanks for having me, it's been a pleasure.