3x Olympian: The Mindset That Creates Winners | Sarah Lindsay

Most people want “motivation.” Olympians build systems, and they learn how to perform when everything hurts, everything’s on the line, and you’ve got to go again in 20 minutes.

In this episode, Matt Haycox sits down with Sarah Lindsay, 3x Olympic short track speed skater, European gold medallist, and a decade-long British champion, now founder of ROAR (London + Dubai) and one of the UK’s most sought-after trainers. 

Sarah breaks down what elite sport really teaches you about resilience, pressure, and identity… then how she used those lessons to build a premium training brand, recover from major injury, navigate litigation, and scale a high-touch coaching operation that delivers results without the usual fitness industry chaos. 

You’ll hear Matt and Sarah talk about:

• How Sarah went from “hyperactive kid” to elite athlete, and why sport saved her focus.
• The reality of Olympic sport: funding, pressure, and why it’s not “rich athlete life”.
• The Olympian mentality: resilience, emotional control, and performing under pressure.
• The injury that nearly ended her career, and the brutal rehab mindset that brought her back.
• Transitioning from athlete to PT: what most athletes get wrong after retirement.
• Building ROAR: why premium results require structure, coaching, and standards (not chaos gyms).
• Litigation lessons: what happens when business gets messy, and what she’d do differently.
• ROAR’s operating model: team-based client care + coaching systems that scale. 
• Dubai, high-performance lifestyle, and training high-profile clients.

Timestamps:
0:00 – 3x Olympian + ROAR Founder: Sarah Lindsay 
1:33 – Coming Up: Injury, mindset, and building a premium brand 
5:50 – Early athletic beginnings: from “naughty kid” to elite focus 
13:40 – Olympic career + the truth about money/funding 
21:37 – Olympic mindset: resilience, pressure, emotional control 
26:48 – The injury: “you might never skate again” + recovery 
31:46 – Redemption, confidence, and retirement decisions 
42:00 – Athlete to PT: rebuilding identity after sport 
48:12 – Starting ROAR: premium training, standards, and experience 
57:07 – Lessons in litigation (business can get savage) 
01:05:19 – How ROAR operates: systems, coaches, client results 
01:09:43 – Dubai life + training high-profile clients 
01:17:33 – Industry views + advice for anyone starting fitness/business 
01:22:33 – Final thoughts 

Follow Sarah:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roarfitnessgirl/
Website: https://www.roar-fitness.com/
ROAR Ldn: https://www.instagram.com/roarfitnessldn/

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps more people find the show.

Transcript

A Brutal Race And A Horrific Crash

SPEAKER_08 0:00

It was a rough competition. I'd had met a journal four days earlier. I was in too much pain to be able to stay without it. Somebody tried to irritate me up from the inside, and then somebody tried to irritate me around the outside at the exact same time. My other foot actually went through the back of her leg instead of her female artery and her hamstring. I had to pull my foot out of her, and then she had to have a little skin. Yeah, it was my last Olympics was the fastest I'd ever skated, and I was getting world record times leading into it. I had no idea what I was going to do. I had no plan B. I didn't want to have a backup plan because it's just like you're preparing to fail already. I just saw a gap. There's just so much missing from this industry, and I thought we could do this better. This isn't hard to make this better. And when we opened, we were fully put within a few months where it's exclusively weight chain. You don't have any cardio equipment at Raw. You can't execute a plan in the busy gym. You just have to make do. You can't just exercise and hope for a result.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

So your first time on the ice after the accident was six weeks before the qualification. Yeah. Right. Which presumably you qualified for then?

SPEAKER_08 1:09

Yeah, which I do. I mean, I almost it was a rough competition because I wasn't good enough. Not even close. I I mean I barely should have been on the ice. Um and I was in pain and I'd had an epidural four days earlier, which you know, you have an epidural and you don't know if you're gonna be able to feel your legs or not, but I was in too much pain to be able to skate without it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_08 1:28

So um, but I had to do that competition. So I was, but I just I had a reputation for being a certain level and for being fast. So when it came to the competition, I didn't tell anybody what was wrong. I didn't tell anybody that I'd had time off. I was training, as far as they were concerned, I'd been training for this competition. So they hadn't seen me earlier in the year, but that was because I'd been training up for this one, so I'd been saving myself ultimately. Um, so people thought I was gonna be good. And I think that perception, I started the race and people just skated behind me because they thought I was gonna be fast enough. So, you know, it's easy to skate behind someone, so it's easy to draft. To skate in front is much harder, right? Same as, you know, say track cycling or something on the velodrome. Um, so second position is like a desired position to be in a race because you don't have to do the work, you're not vulnerable for everybody overtaking you.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

But then do you try and nick past them at the end, do you?

SPEAKER_08 2:20

Yeah, basically you save it till the end because for the person in third place, it's very difficult to overtake two people on a small track. So second position is considered, you know, the best place to be, and then you know, they'll try and overtake you at the end or at least protect their second position because one and two people qualify through to the next round. Um, so I just got off the start in front, and the person behind is just protecting me, but I was actually skating super slow. Um, but people expect you then to pick it up or then to go faster. So they're just sort of waiting for it. And actually, what happened in that first round of this competition? Um, somebody tried to overtake me up the inside, and somebody tried to overtake me around the outside at the exact same time. So I suddenly realized actually Sarah's really quite slow today. And the person on the inside fell over and took me and took the other girl on the outside of me out. So we all fell over into the barrier together. Um, and actually was an awful accident for the girl on the outside of me. She was um, she was a world record holder, she was an Olympic medalist from Korea. Um, and both of my feet went into her at, you know, fairly still a far speed, although it's not my fastest, it's still hitting the barrier quick. Um, and one of my blades cut her stomach, which it sounds dramatic. It what it was, I guess, but that was just a flesh wound. So, you know, stitches, but just you know, external. Um, but then my other foot actually went through the back of her leg, severed her femoral artery and her hamstring. So she had to have, you know, I had to pull my foot out of her in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Guys, Matt Haycock's here. Today's guest is an Olympian, a European gold medalist, and 10 times British speed skating champion. She's one of London's top celebrity trainers. She's known for transforming stars like Ellie Goulding, Mel B, and many others. And her story is all about determination, passion, and helping others unlock their full potential. Sarah Lindsay, also the Raw Fitness Girl. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_08 4:14

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Why Raw Fitness Girl?

SPEAKER_08 4:18

Uh well, the brand, my company is called RAW.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:21

Um, it's Raw Fitness, but we kind of dropped the fitness. I think we considered ourselves too cool to keep the fitness bit in there.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Is it is it a play on word? Because it because it's spelled R-O-A-R, not R-A-W. Correct. But but it could it be either, is it a bit of a No no no, it's R-O-A-R.

SPEAKER_08 4:36

Um actually it's a funny one because nobody, apart from me and my partner, so my business partner is also my husband. Um, we're the only people that know what it stands for. So um when we came up with the name, um, we'd been through quite a journey to get to the point of opening RAW in the first place. And um, it's a secret acronym ultimately about the journey. So not even our COO knows.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Can we not reveal it here today?

SPEAKER_08 5:00

Absolutely not. Never.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

It dies with us. Are we allowed to clue? One letter.

SPEAKER_08 5:04

No way, no way. I've never told anybody what that is. Um I think Raw's RAW's a cool name anyway, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 5:10

No, it sounds loud about it. I could just say that's aggressive in the gym.

SPEAKER_08 5:13

Just roar like a lion.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

But an acronym, that's where the the first letter of each um of each one is is so it's four words, yeah?

SPEAKER_08 5:21

Yeah, so we just yeah, we we were trying to come up with the name and we were going through um elements of the story that were really important to us and what stood out, and then we ended up coming up with the word raw out of that as we sort of whittled it down. That's all you're getting.

Early Talent And The Grind Of Elite Sport

SPEAKER_03 5:36

I'm deter I'm determined at some point in the future to find out. Let's rewind because before there was raw fitness, there was Sarah the uh the skater, Sarah the Olympian, and I guess an athlete as a kid. So uh how does your journey begin?

SPEAKER_08 5:49

Oof, well, I started um really young actually. So I did lots of different sports, um, had some hyperactivity, let's just say, and I think my parents just needed an hour off, you know, just so before and after school every day, they sent me to a different sporting club or group. Um, I think so they could just sit down and have a rest and I would run off some energy, so potentially more uh manageable at school. I think how old are you at this point? I'm in five. Oh, but two.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

You were naughty from that age. I was actually, I was always in trouble.

SPEAKER_08 6:19

So basically the clubs that kept me that didn't I didn't get kicked out of are the ones that I ended up excelling in. And then as I started to get older, I started to have to choose which sports I was gonna do more regularly. Um, because you know that as you improve, they want you to do more of the training days or they want you to go to this competition. You can't do everything. So um I was figure skating, so you know, more dancing. Um, and then the speed somebody who was speed skating or managing the speed skating team asked if I would um just come and try it out. So they were talent spotting, and then I think I figured out pretty quickly I was more athletic than I was graceful, let's say that. Um, so then I preferred speed skating, I was better at it quicker, and yeah, just got good at that. So I started to focus on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

And how old?

SPEAKER_08 7:06

Um eight. Oh, so as young as that? Yeah, eight. And then um, by the time I was, and I was going to internationals young as well, so I was uh juvenile British champion, and then I think by the time I was 15, I was full-time.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

So that sounds sounds very naughty, a juvenile British champion, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_08 7:22

Yeah, juvenile British champion. Yeah, like I was in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

It's a part of it, I guess. So so they've got, I mean, I think obviously they have you you don't, I guess you don't know what you don't know, but um I can't imagine eight-year-old, uh, eight-year-old speed skaters and eight-year-old figure state skaters. Is it is it a big market?

SPEAKER_08 7:38

I think well it definitely used to be. And actually, from what I hear, it's grown again because I think they started to close down lots of ice drinks. So there were more ice drinks. Um, and then they started to close them down, obviously just developing housing and stuff, which is actually why my local ice rink closed. Um, and then I think with dan with um not dancing on ice, what's the ice skate? Yeah, dancing on ice show, that encouraged lots of people to go and start ice skating again. So then just the sort of for you know leisure and just for fun, more people going to the ice rinks, and then you know, that's how you find talent ultimately. So that definitely helped pick it up, I think.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

When did you become, I guess, when did you become competitive? When when were you you know skating for your country or entering competitions?

SPEAKER_08 8:20

So I was skating junior competitions, I think at about 10.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 8:24

Um so I was going to like junior international competitions that my parents would drive me to. Um, so we drive over to sort of Holland and Belgium and France and things like that to compete. Um, and then I won the British Championship. So I won a British championships when I was 15 for the senior ladies, and I think that's where people really started to notice my talent and realised it wasn't just um, you know, childhood talent that I'd grown and I was stronger and I was beating the senior women. So um that was where I really got sort of taken on board. And 16 I was on the national team, and then I was full-time. So from school, I was full-time on the national team.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

So did you finish school at 16 so you could be?

SPEAKER_08 9:04

Well, I started college and then you know, I was having so I moved out of home as well, so that I could be nearer the ice shrink. Um, so skating and trying to work to pay rent and trying to do college just wasn't working. So um I decided to put college on hold. And then I thought, well, if I, you know, if I don't make it skating, then I can always go back to college, but you can't really rewind um and make up that time again for speed skating. So and then I never looked back.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

What were you working as to pay the rent?

SPEAKER_08 9:30

Oh, I was what was that? So first I was in a restaurant, which was a Hawaiian-themed restaurant, so I was, you know, hula skirt and crop top. I think obviously illegal to serve alcohol at that age, but I was. Um, and then I started working in another local shop near the ice rink. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

And you had to do that in in there was no money, in there's no money in the sport, or there was no grants, subsidies, assistance?

Funding, Sacrifice, And Life On Ice

SPEAKER_08 9:54

So the sport was funded. So the actual team was funded, so competitions and and that kind of thing. You didn't have to pay for it, but I still had to pay for my living. Sure. So there wasn't um big sponsorship or anything. It's not on telly. So that doesn't really exist in my sport. It's not a good place to go and earn money, put it that way. But then you get rewarded when you start winning. So the better you get, the more money obviously comes in. And then when you start making international, then there's a lot, then it's lottery funded. So by the time I was, I think, 18, I was fully funded. So it's not like you're like I say, you're not making loads of money, but it does mean that you can pay your rent, pay your travel and your car. But then I didn't need anything else. All I did was skate.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

I mean, how how many hours a day are you you doing it at that point?

SPEAKER_08 10:37

I mean, it's all it's all day. Training is well, actual ice time would be six to nine hours a day of actual training. Um, but from you know, half five in the morning until ten at night, every hour of your day uh has been designed. And, you know, first thing in the morning you get up, you do your urine sample, or you, you know, you have your bloods done, um, sharpen your skates, then you you've got urine and blood to make sure you're not taking anything. No, no. So that that's once a week. They'll turn up. The anti-doping agency would turn up generally about once a week, either at your house or at the ice rink to for dope testing, um, which is always annoying when you're trying to train, you know, and they want to get a urine sample. Um, you have to wait until the end of training. So basically you're bursting before you go and do that. But anyway, um, so yeah, that was once a week. But no, it's just for for hydration. Uh, they want to check how hydrated you are before you, because obviously that can affect your performance a lot. And then the bloods, they're measuring lactate, so lactic acid levels in the blood, because it's the sport, you're sitting at 90 degrees the whole time. So if you think you're doing like a static sit, how hard that can be. Um, but we're doing that for hours. Yeah, because you you never, you know, you're always sat at 90 degrees. So and this ischemic position means you have limited blood flow as well, so high levels of lactic acid all the time. So your legs are always burning, you always feel a bit sick, there's always that metal taste in your mouth, and you're always freezing.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

And how seriously did you take the the non-skating training at that point, you know, as in as in you know, gym exercise and stuff in general, nutrition, you know, all the other stuff around it. Because I mean, obviously, at this point, you know, you're you're a 16, 17, 18-year-old kid. I mean, we were you were you out on the piss, were you eating McDonald's? You were well behaved well behaved by that point.

SPEAKER_08 12:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I didn't, do you know what? And it does sound people always thought that I sacrificed a lot because I wasn't going out and I couldn't drink, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to do anything that, you know, could potentially ruin what I was trying to do. I saw that as a huge privilege to be able to do what I loved as my job. And I was funded and I was able to do this thing. I didn't want to mess it up by, you know, doing anything that would be detrimental to it. So although that sounds really boring and really straightaced because, you know, like I said, from a kid, I was always in trouble. I was been the naughty one my entire life. Um, but you know, you it's basically the end of the season, you get three, four weeks off. Um, and that's where everybody would go out and have fun. But while you're competing, you don't want to be getting on the ice first thing in the morning, hung over. You'll die. You know, you're going 30, 35 miles an hour, you're on one millimeter thick blade, and you know, you're only really on about an inch of that blade at any one point because it's curved, there's a rocker to it. So um, you know, falling over is common. So you don't want to increase the chances of hitting the barrier at 35 miles an hour by drinking.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

You talked earlier when you were kind of 16, 17, 18, you were you were working in a restaurant, etc. As you it went on and your career developed, did it become does the sport become any more financially lucrative, or are you still are you still working um a normal job at that point to you know to put yourself through?

SPEAKER_08 13:45

So not lucrative. You're not gonna other than real sponsorship, you're not gonna earn money doing my sport because it's an amateur sport. So, you know, you can't really earn until you're done and you're coaching, and then you get paid for coaching roles. But as an athlete, because it's not on TV, if you get you know TV coverage, then of course you can then get sponsorship and deals and you get seen more. And um, bearing in mind that social media and stuff wasn't really a thing when I was skating, it was sort of before that. So there wasn't all the potential as far as social media goes with regards to earning money. So yeah, there's you're not gonna you're not gonna become rich being a being a speed skater, but then obviously you can do stuff afterwards and you can use that. And if you win, then obviously there'll there's sponsorship deals and and stuff. But no, you just got, you know, the better you do, the more money you got paid. So your life became more comfortable. And like I said, you had everything that you needed, as long as you could, you know, put everything into your sport. So I just didn't want to work because it took away from skating. Obviously, not because I was lazy or anything, but I just wanted to be able to skate. I didn't want to take days off to go and work when I could be training. So that for me was potentially going to be a distraction. So as long as I didn't have to work, I was happy. And, you know, like I said, different levels of performance get you different levels of funding. So top three is a certain amount of money, top eight is a another amount of money, and I was always top eight. Um, and then top, I think 15 or 16 gets personal funding. So you have to be good, you have to be like top 15, 16 in the world to get paid at all. But yeah, I always made top eight and I, you know, crept into the top three every now and again. So those are the better years.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

And what was your goal at that point? Were you looking at a full-time career in it? You know, did did you did you see money in a future in Olympics?

SPEAKER_08 15:30

I never thought about money. I wanted to win the Olympics. So it's it's funny, at eight years old I knew I was going. I knew that I'd go to the Olympics. And, you know, that's not um, I don't know, it's not ego or anything, you can't at that age, but I think it's I was just lucky enough to be around other people that were doing that. So in my club, this guy, this girl, you know, this person's got an Olympic medal, they're all going to the Olympics. So why would I not go? It was just normal that those the people around you were doing that. So I just always knew that I would. And not for one day did I think that I wouldn't. Um, and it wasn't really until my last Olympic race that I realized I wasn't gonna win an Olympic medal, you know, it wasn't until it was over that it sunk in. I was like, oh, I've finished, that's the end. You know, so it's it's a funny thing. That whole time I 100% believed that was that was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

And and when did you first compete in the Olympics?

SPEAKER_08 16:24

Uh 2002 was my first Olympics. Um, so I was 21. So it's 2002, 2006, and then 2010 was my third and final.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 16:32

So yeah, 2010 I retired.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

And when and when we talk about like two world uh two world silver medals and and ten British skating medals, yeah. So it that's different competitions at different times, isn't it?

SPEAKER_08 16:44

Yeah, the Olympics is only every four years. Right. So every year you have um usually around 10 competitions. So you have a World Cup series, uh, which ranks you for the World Championships, which every year is the most important competition usually, um, and you have European championships, which is another major championship. Um, and your performance in those competitions will decide if you get funded for the next year. So you have to perform in that one event. And, you know, but if something happens or you fell or you had a bad crash, or you know, then you can look at the rest of your performance over the year and they might consider that if you've been winning and you just had a bad accident or something, then you know, they're likely to still pay you for the next year in the hope that you're gonna win an Olympic medal in however many years away that will be. But yeah, it's a four-year training cycle that you're in. So you're always really focused on the Olympics, and it always feels like you're running out of time. You know, four years is so long when I think about it now. But you know, if you you're one year in, you think, oh my god, I've only got three years left to get ready. And it feels like you're running out of time.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

And what what age are you too old to do it?

SPEAKER_08 17:49

Well, I retired, I was uh nearly 30, and that was older. So I was one of the older ones, yeah. So really, I think you you physically peak in your mid-20s. Um, it just depends on the sport, obviously, and how long it takes to develop and and those skills and what your training age is when you started. Um, but yeah, most people I think start to after 30, I think your recovery slows down so much. And you see that in lots of athletes is that you know they need more rest and they are not able to do the same volume of work that they could do five years earlier.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Not Lance Armstrong. Yeah, well, maybe different reasons. Have you got any behind-the-scenes Olympic gos any exciting stories?

SPEAKER_08 18:30

Oh, I don't know. Um, probably, but I don't know. I've they've probably been sworn to secrecy. Can't think of the top of my head. People always talk always ask about the Olympics and what happens at the Olympics, and they hear all these like crazy stories and and everything. But I do honestly think that summer and winter Olympics are a little bit different because the Summer Olympics, you know, you've got to think there's all these, you know, there's hundreds of athletes, everybody looks good, and you're in your prime, and um, you're at this amazing event, and there's all this like crazy, amazing stuff going on. Um, but it's summer, so you're in your, you know, you've got your bodies out and you're all by the pool and everything, and of course, you know, people are gonna have have their fun. But winter Olympics, we're dressed up in like ski wear. I'm wearing salapets and a woolly hat and gloves. Um so you know, I think the same sort of naughtiness doesn't quite happen at the Winter Olympics that it does at the Summer Olympics.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

How many winter sports are there compared to summer then? I mean, are there lots and lots of is it like variants of the same thing? So we fast skiing, slow skiing, fancy skiing kind of thing.

SPEAKER_08 19:33

Well, I mean, skating, we've got short track, which was my sport. So um short track speed skating is on a hundred meter track, so it's a really tight corner on a standard size ice shrink.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

So so so your your one thing you do effectively is getting around a hundred meters of ice as quick as you possibly can. Yeah.

The 2007 Injury And Comeback Clock

SPEAKER_08 19:50

A few times in a row. Okay. Um, but there's you know, there's four, four to six people all in the same lane. So that causes you know more accidents and crashes and it's like greyhound racing. It's wild, it's wild. It's I mean, it's the most viewed uh winter sport as well. It's always sold out because even if you don't understand the sport and you don't quite know what's going on, you understand the first person over the line is the winner and you can see the sort of thrills and spills of it all. So it is a very um viewer-friendly sport. Then you have long track, which is on a 400-meter track, and one person has it's two people against the clock ultimately, and they've got their own lane. So there's less spills and less accidents.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

And why can't you do that? Or why don't you do that? Is it because it's a completely different kind of training to do for 100 meters than it is for 400?

SPEAKER_08 20:37

I mean, it's it is very different, it's completely different equipment, um, and slightly different types of athletes, uh, but there is a crossover. So lots of short trackers go into long track as well, and there's a few athletes, American athletes actually, mostly and um Dutch athletes as well, that have won medals at both. Okay. But so, but they are very, they are very different still.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

I was gonna say, like if someone's ill, can you substitute for them?

SPEAKER_08 21:01

No, we don't even have an ice rink in the UK. We don't have a full-size ice rink, um, long track rink. So it's 400 meters like an athletic stadium. Oh, so do we don't have that?

SPEAKER_03 21:10

So do we not really get any Brits doing that then?

SPEAKER_08 21:11

Well, we've got a couple that are really good actually, um, that were coming through at the last Olympics, and I hold some some hope for them at the next. Uh, but yeah, but they had to move to Holland. So you can't do it in the UK. You have to relocate.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

So talk to me about um Olympic athlete mentality, the impact of of mental strength on physical strength, and you know, I guess any tips, any problems, you know, what what what do we what do we need to know?

SPEAKER_08 21:36

I think that that athlete mentality, I think the resilience that comes with that, because you lose a lot. You know, nobody just keeps winning over and over again, especially in a sport as unpredictable as mine. So I think, I mean, one of the big things I took from my sport was resilience, because out of you know, a hundred races, I probably won five. And the rest you have to dust yourself off. You might even only have 20 minutes before your next race. Something like Happen, somebody might have been hurt, and you can't focus on any of the distractions that are going on around you, and you have to get ready and race again in 20 minutes time. So it's not even like you have days to wind down, talk it through with your psych and get ready for the next one. You've got to be pretty tough and block a lot of that out.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

And did you learn that yourself? Or I mean did you get a lot of mental coaching?

SPEAKER_08 22:21

No, we had we had a full-time psych working with us for years actually. And that really was um it did make a huge, huge difference because you can be as you know technically sound and physically fit as you want, but if you can't prepare for the race properly, so I was naturally a sprinter. So I focused on the sprints. I did all the events, but I did focus on the sprint event. Um and for me, my start was one of the fastest in the world, if not the fastest. And in training, I couldn't produce the same times that I could in a race because I didn't have the adrenaline because you just don't care about it in the same way because obviously it's not a real race. But we did a lot of work on getting me to be able to create that for training so that I could practice to the same level, which again made a huge difference. Trying to find that optimal state of arousal so that you're you're, you know, you do have butterflies, you do have that adrenaline, which is going to make you more explosive and more powerful, but you still need to be able to be calm because otherwise you can't skate. You know, it's so technic, it's so technical. Um, and if you move, you know, you put your blade down two millimeters to the right, you can fall. So it is so precise. Um, so you need to make sure that you've got those things all balanced out.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

How do you block out the problems? And I I guess like you you said a minute ago, you could have lost a race and you you've got to be competing again in 20 minutes' time. I mean, I guess for me it's probably comparable to let's say tennis in a way. I I play a lot of tennis, and you know, one of the things you you know you're always taught is that each point's a new point, but I can never think of each point as a new point. You know, like if I've if I've been on a on a losing run, then I know I'm gonna fuck up the next point. I can never get out of my head the pressure of that thing. And I always play so different in a game to how I do in practice, and so different on an important point to a not important point. I mean, how how do you block that out if you write?

Qualifying Through Chaos And Adrenaline

SPEAKER_08 24:06

Well, that's you know, that's being able to control your emotions ultimately. You're letting your emotions um lead your thoughts. So you need to be able to control that to decide to be able to control what your next thought process is going to be. And you can't, I mean, it's such a cliche, but you can't control what just happened. You know, you can't do anything about that. You can only focus on the things that you can control because there are loads of variables, so you just have to focus on one step at a time. What's next? What have I got to do in this moment? What's the next thing on my list, if you like, to take you up until the point where you get on the ice again? And there's loads to do. You've got, like I said, you could have, you know, 20 minutes and I have to cool down. I've got to sharpen my skates, I have to look at my race, decide on my race plan with my coach, get warmed up and ready, put my skates on, do everything up, and you've got your pre-race race routine. Um, so by the time you've done all that, you haven't had time to think and you know, cry about what happened in the last one. So yeah, I think it's just, I mean, you turn into a bit of a robot ultimately. Um, and don't let yourself feel anything until the end of the day. And for sure, by the end of the day, and you've done five races, you're going to feel different than you did after that first one because so much more has happened since anyway. So those feelings are kind of irrelevant.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Is it a lonely sport? I mean, are you kind of friends with uh I mean, I don't know how many other people, for example, from England would would be doing it with you. I mean, I know you've got your coach, but are there many people to be in the team?

SPEAKER_08 25:29

Yeah, we have a full we had a full team. So the um extended team of the of Team GB was 20. Um, and then when we traveled, we had potentially 10 of us. So there's five girls, five guys, um, because you have four in a relay. So we had a relay event as well. Um, so the women, I mean, we were, I mean, I won a European gold medal as a relay skater. Um, and then you have a reserve. So no, you're not, you're not lonely, you've got a team, you train with the team, you all support each other. If somebody wins, the whole team gets funded. So you do all work for each other. So there's a obviously a natural hierarchy. So, like the fifth boy, for example. So the reserve might skate for me to help me skate fast in training so that I can do fast lap times. But if I fall over or I get taken out or something happens to me in the first round of competition, I will be there running to get the fourth guy's water bottle, or I'll sharpen his skates or whatever he needs me to do to make sure that they're as ready as possible. So that, you know, that sort of, like I say, natural hierarchy of age or sort of general position within the team goes out the window and you're there to just try and get anybody to win.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

So 2007, you had a you had a bad accident.

SPEAKER_08 26:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_08 26:42

Um, I just crashed in training. You know, like I say, you do fall quite a lot. It was an awkward fall. I went in um fast, so we were sprinting. I went in fast and headfirst. Yeah, into the in the corner. So I fell in the corner and went into the barrier head first. So the barrier is is obviously solid. Um, it's like an ice hockey rink, you know, it's a solid barrier, but then you have some padding on it. Um, but you know, you're still hitting the hitting the boards hard. You hit the barrier before you even really hit the floor. So as soon as you fall, you're in the you're in the barrier in less than a second.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

What are you wearing? Do you wear a helmet?

SPEAKER_08 27:15

Yeah, you wear a helmet, you wear gloves. Um, I used to wear glasses as well. And then, so it changed while I was skating, but you really are just wearing lycra and you have knee and shin pads because you get kicked sometimes on the start. Um so for a long time it was just lycra. And then in the last few years of my skating, we changed to wearing Kevlar to cut-proof because there were obviously a lot of cuts. So every competition, people were getting stitched up. Um, and it got, you know, it just got worse and worse. The faster the sport got, the worse that became. Because if one person falls, usually someone else falls because you're all in the same lane. So then it's you know, multiple blades flying around, hitting the barrier at speed. So yeah, we started wearing Kevlar, which you know sort of took the the amount of cuts down a lot. Um, but yeah, not I mean, not that much protection. And a lot of the time you'll just sort of glide into the or like slide into the barrier and you can bring your arms in and stuff so you don't break your wrists and things like that. Um, but yeah, this was just a just an awkward fall. It wasn't standard, and I just went in head first. Um, and yeah, had quite a severe back injury, which actually put me out for a year and three months, which was forever.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Did you do nothing during that time?

Vancouver Highs, Controversy, And Retirement

SPEAKER_08 28:24

No, so I was um I was five weeks on a board. Wow. So I couldn't, I couldn't walk or anything. I was five months um at the British Olympic Medical Centre and then a wheelchair or something at this point.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 28:36

I was pretty much just wheeled up to eat and then wheeled back down. So I was just lying on a board and I was having lots of treatment and everything, trying to avoid an operation, and then it was a lot of rehab to come back. So, you know, I was told um I wouldn't skate again. The chances of that were zero. Um, and I probably wouldn't walk without pain. So it was, you know, it was a tough one to sort of get my head around. I'm in this position where if I missed one training session, it feels like the end of the world. You know, I feel like I'm gonna lose the next competition because I missed, you know, missed this workout. Um, but you know, it's again crazy when you look back at how sort of, I don't know, in it you really are. But to have all that time off I found very, very difficult. But I'd come back.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

And you're 25, 26 at this point, I guess. Yeah. And uh, I mean, you say the time off was difficult, but I mean, when they said to you that you wouldn't skate again, I mean, how how did you take that? And I mean, did you accept that you wouldn't skate again, or did you did you feel that okay, this time off pissing me off, but I will do whatever it takes to get back on the ice?

SPEAKER_08 29:42

Again, I think what just one day at a time. I think that's some of you know what you what you learn from sport. I don't always believe um what you're told in those situations. You know, I think sometimes you're told the absolute worst case uh to prepare you or something, but which I think is is crazy, really. You know, somebody's hurt or sick or injured. I think having a, you know, a goal to try and recover for is, you know, is a far sort of stronger motivation than thinking that you're never gonna skate. I mean, it's like my world was, you know, would have been over. But yeah, I guess I just never really sunk in. I was just dealing from one day at a time. And there were points in that, in that year that I was really down, really, really struggled because I think the same as when I retired, actually, it's not just um about your goals, but I think the physical stimulation that you're used to. You know, I had adrenaline every day. Every day I was nervous for even for training because I wanted to skate fast, you know, it is dangerous and you know, it means so much to you that I had those feelings all the time. And then when that's just completely gone and you've got nothing to do, and you're used to being, you know, really putting everything into every workout. I mean, you train until you're sick or you fall down, or you know, you get sent home because you can't do it anymore. It's um it's a really tough sport. So yeah, I think taking that away was was really, really difficult. And like I said, I felt that when I retired from sport, I couldn't get that back. I found it difficult to find something that I cared enough about to, you know, feel stimulated enough. I just felt really flat and down for a long time. And I'm not really, I don't believe I'm wired that way. I always feel I'm lucky, I always feel good, I'm always positive, I always look for the positive and find, you know, a way to overcome whatever's going on. But um those were two points I think in my life that I found really, really difficult to deal with.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

What did your uh coach say at this point? I mean, were they still hanging on for you to make a recovery? You kind of being axed unless you got better.

SPEAKER_08 31:42

Yeah, I was I was gone unless I could get on and perform. So um I was back on the ice six weeks before um Olympic qualifier for the yeah, the year before, so two years before the Olympics. So not the official Olympic, but if I didn't qualify then, I wouldn't get paid for the next year, and then I wouldn't be on the team, so then I wouldn't go to the Olympics. So I had basically I recovered and I had two years till my last Olympics. Um, and I was six weeks back on the ice before I did that competition.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

So your first time on the ice after the accident was six weeks before the qualification. Yeah. Right. Which presumably you qualified for then?

SPEAKER_08 32:19

Yeah, which I do. I mean, I almost it was a rough competition because I wasn't good enough, not even close. I I mean I barely should have been on the ice. Um and I was in pain and I'd had an epidural four days earlier, which you know, you have an epidural and you don't know if you're gonna be able to feel your legs or not, but I was in too much pain to be able to skate without it.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Oh wow.

From Athlete To PT: Learning The Trade

SPEAKER_08 32:38

So um, but I had to do that competition. So I was, but I just I had a reputation for being a certain level and for being fast. So when it came to the competition, I didn't tell anybody what was wrong. I didn't tell anybody that I'd had time off. I was training, as far as they were concerned, I'd been training for this competition. So they hadn't seen me earlier in the year, but that was because I'd been training up for this one, so I'd been saving myself ultimately. Um, so people thought I was gonna be good. And I think that perception, I started the race and people just skated behind me because they thought I was gonna be fast enough. So, you know, it's easy to skate behind someone, so it's easy to draft. To skate in front is much harder, right? Same as, you know, say track cycling or something on the velodrome. Um so second position is like a desired position to be in a race because you don't have to do the work, you're not vulnerable for everybody overtaking you.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

But then do you try and nick pass them at the end, do you?

SPEAKER_08 33:31

Yeah, basically you save it till the end because for the person in third place, it's very difficult to overtake two people on a small track. So second position is considered, you know, the best place to be, and then you know, they'll try and overtake you at the end or at least protect their second position because one and two people qualify through to the next round. Um, so I just got off the start in front, and the person behind is just protecting me, but I was actually skating super slow. Um, but people expect you then to pick it up or then to go faster. So they're just sort of waiting for it. And actually, what happened in that first round of this competition? Um, somebody tried to overtake me up the inside, and somebody tried to overtake me around the outside at the exact same time. Because I suddenly realized actually Sarah's really quite slow today. And the person on the inside fell over and took me and took the other girl on the outside of me out. So we all fell over into the barrier together. Um, and actually was an awful accident for the girl on the outside of me. She was um, she was a world record holder, she was an Olympic medalist from Korea. Um, and both of my feet went into her, you know, fairly still a far speed, although it's not my fastest, it's still hitting the barrier quick. Um, and one of my blades cut her stomach, which it sounds dramatic. It what it was, I guess, but that was just a flesh wound. So, you know, stitches, but just you know, external. Um, but then my other foot actually went through the back of her leg, severed her femoral artery and her hamstring. So she had to have, you know, I had to pull my foot out of her in the first place, and then she had to have her femoral artery clamped. You, you know, you bleed out in a few minutes, um, and had to have a hamstring reattached as well. So it's going through every listening to it. Yeah, it was it was it was rough. Um, so we know it's awful for her. She didn't skate again, but I had they were talking about resilience.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

That was that was the end of her career.

SPEAKER_08 35:18

Yeah, and then I had five minutes before because they stopped the race because of the danger and blood and whatever else. Um, and then we had five minutes where you just float around on the ice in the middle while they decide what they're gonna do, and then we had to race again. So I don't even know if this girl's okay or not, you know, it doesn't look okay. Um, and the one the girl that caused the accident got sent off, so she got disqualified. So there's only two of us left on the ice, and two people get through, but they wanted to re-run the race um so that the faster time gets the better lane draw for the next round. So yeah, we we did the race again, and I had to just just skate, and I flew because um the adrenaline, I guess, and the sort of stress of it. And then I had the next race coming up, and I got through anyway. I had to make top six in the world to to qualify.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

And that was to get back for the Olympics.

SPEAKER_08 36:08

Yeah, which I did, and I got sixth. Um, and yeah, qualified for the for the next year ultimately. So that was um that was a rough competition, but we did it.

Why ROAR: Weights, Systems, And Service

SPEAKER_03 36:16

So the summary of all that is that after 15 months of injury, you took out the world champion in a violent injury to make to make sure that you could make make the Olympics.

SPEAKER_08 36:25

Basically, yeah. It wasn't my fault, so um, yeah, somebody else caused the crash at least, but it was my skates, you know, it's still a it's still a tough thing to to deal with, but um yeah, but it's you know, it's part of the sport, and people accept that and know that's the case. And like I said, since we were Kevlar now, so a bit safer, bulletproof.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

And that was your last Olympics?

SPEAKER_08 36:46

Yeah, that was my last.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

But did you just say you qualified for the one after as well?

SPEAKER_08 36:50

No, so my last my last Olympics was Vancouver 2010. Um, and then I went to world team championships immediately after that so that we could perform as a team and get funding for the girls the following year. But I decided at that competition that I was going to retire.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Why?

SPEAKER_08 37:07

Um do you know what? I hadn't even really thought it through. I just thought four more years is is a lot, and I was pretty upset with how the Olympics finished for me. So um I was skating really fast. My last Olympics was the fastest I'd ever skated, and I was skating world record times leading into it, and I was supremely confident, and I've never been that, never been that person. You know, I always doubt myself, I always question everything. And there have been a couple of times in my career where I've been really confident going into a competition. I thought, actually, I'm really fast and no one else is skating quick. You know, you're watching people in training and their lap times are slow and everyone's complaining about the ice, and I was thinking, well, this is good, I'm skating quick, and I can see other coaches talking about me. Um, so I was really looking forward to racing. And then also really, we just had a crash. So I crashed in the race, which is very normal on the start. Um, and the rule is if, well, the rule was then if you crash with somebody else before the first block of the corner, they restart it. If you fall on your own and you're just clumsy, tough, and everyone just goes. Um, but if more than one person crashed, they restart. And I've done six restarts in the past, and you're all just racing for one lane.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Six restarts in one race.

SPEAKER_08 38:17

Yeah, because nobody has right of way. You're just racing for that first position. And I was a fast starter. So if I didn't win that start, I wouldn't win the race. So I can never give up my start. So I will just go. Um, and you know, people sort of fly off my skates and stuff, but I'm not going to hold back and save it for the end because I, like I said, I was a I was a sprinter. Um, so yeah, we had a crash, they recalled it. We did the race again, we started, and then the exact same thing happened um with a Canadian girl in Canada. And I think, I mean, they even showed it on the replay over and over again. And I would never hold, I never didn't hold it against her, it's just how the sport goes. But she pulled me down, which was very deliberate. You know, she sort of hooked her arm underneath mine and pulled me so that they would restart it. Again, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

That's not a penalty or something, no?

SPEAKER_08 39:06

Well, you know, sort of that if they're gonna disqualify somebody, it would be her because she caused the crash. And but people don't get disqualified on the start in that way, they just keep restarting it. But I think we were behind time on the TV schedule. Um, it was gonna happen again. She was a sprinter too, she didn't want to give up her position. So me and her would have kept crashing. And the referee just sent me off. Uh, he got a ban, actually, he got a two-year ban um after the competition. Well, that event. But they didn't rerun the Olympics. So that was me just sent it was over, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Plenty of exciting stories for in this skateboard game, isn't there?

SPEAKER_08 39:39

But I didn't even, I didn't really get to get to race, so anyway, I was pissed. Um, so then after that, I was like, I could train for another four years for somebody else to decide it's over for me. You know, I just thought, do you know what? I'm finished. I said, like I said, I went to world team championships so that the girls would get funding for the following year. And that day I said, uh just before I got on the ice, actually, I said to my coach, if I skip the British record, I'm finished. And he's like, You sure? I was like, Yeah. So they announced it and everybody made a big fuss, which was really nice. Um, and I I did the British record by a couple of tenths, only just, but it was enough. And I looked up at the time, he gave me the thumbs up and I was like, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:17

What was that speed? Precise at time.

SPEAKER_08 40:20

Oh, it oh gosh, I should know, shouldn't I? It's a serious one, but it's 40, 44.1, I think it was. Seconds. Yeah, 41 for it's four and a half laps. I was gonna say for doing a hundred meters four and a half times, yeah. Yeah, so it's it's five hundred meters is the shortest distance. Okay. Um, so yeah, I did it and that was it. And I just so my last ever race was my fastest ever official race. Amazing. So that was it. I was like, okay, I'm out of there.

The First Startup, Investor, And Ouster

SPEAKER_02 40:48

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SPEAKER_03 41:49

So you've retired? Yeah. Did you have a plan?

SPEAKER_08 41:52

No, not a plan, nothing. I had no idea what I was gonna do. I had no plan B because in my head I was gonna win already. But um, so that didn't happen. So then that was that was a difficult year, actually, trying to make that transition because it felt like I finished school at 30. I hadn't done anything else. I didn't want to do anything else. So um I didn't want to have a backup plan because it's like you're preparing to fail already.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

So you'd met your husband at this point.

SPEAKER_08 42:23

No, a previous husband. But um, but no, we actually so I mean we met in the gym. I was I was working, I started working in a gym, um, and he was working at the same gym, and that's and that's how we met.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

This is a new this is the current one. Yeah, this is my now husband.

SPEAKER_08 42:39

Um, so we've been married for it'll be seven years this summer, um, and together for I don't know, 12.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

And when you say you were working in the gym, you were PTing?

SPEAKER_08 42:48

Yeah, so we were both just PTing uh in a gym, and that's how you know he was he was helping me ultimately he wasn't amazing and he was so he was helping me. Um and we yeah, we just got close that way.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Did you do um so for you to become a PT, I mean obviously you'd had you'd had a career of a sport, but did you then go and take some qualifications or or or take some specific learnings?

SPEAKER_08 43:08

Yeah, so actually um I qualified as a PT when I was 20, I think. So every like I mentioned earlier, ever at the end of every season, you get a month off. And back then to qualify as a PT, you needed um you need a three-month course that was eight till six, six days a week, um, and you had to go there and and physically do it. Well, now I think you can you can do it online probably in a weekend. Um so every year for three years, I did my month off. I went and did that section of the personal training qualification, and that was just because my my coach wanted me to. So he said that I should do that anyway, just to do something different. Um, so I had those qualifications already. Um, and then I was luckily enough to be the strength of conditioning coach for the national figure skating team. Okay. So actually, my last Olympics. It's a kind of nice story, actually. My last Olympics, I had two of my athletes uh go as their first Olympics as the ice dancers. So yeah, I coached them in the gym, so I did their strength conditioning. Um, but yeah, they were competing in their first Olympics while I was competing in my last. So I was there as an athlete, but also, you know, I got to see my athletes performing at the Olympics, so that was really nice. So I did have experience in coaching already, but then I went in full-time and really wanted to learn the trade when I finished.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

And what so and when you went into Peting, was it was that going to be the future career at that point?

SPEAKER_08 44:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's obviously a kind of natural progression, I think, for athletes. You have all this experience and um not just obviously training yourself and being an athlete is very different to training, you know, general population, but I think all the practical side of the physiology as well, because you pretty much live in a lab, you know, everything that we're doing is so scientific and have a full-time sports science team, and you're listening to these people talk, you're doing tests in the lab the whole time, and you're getting all this feedback and you're really understanding what's going on with your body on a practical but also a scientific level. So I think that is, you know, it's irreplaceable, that learning. And I've been surrounded by some of the world's best, or the world's best coaches. So um, yeah, very, very lucky with the people that I've learnt from as my time as an athlete.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

So, how long were you PTing for before Raw came along?

SPEAKER_08 45:19

Oh, this is kind of complicated. So I know there's always a story behind a story, isn't there? But I um so I did a couple of years where I was just doing as many hours as possible, really learning the trade and trying to train as many different people as possible.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Did you have do you have a particular forte in like I don't know, some trainers are for heavy weights, some are for aerobics and stuff?

SPEAKER_08 45:40

So RAW is only weight training, so it's exclusively weight training. We don't have any cardio equipment at RAW, and it's not that I'm anti-cardio. A lot of the press sort of make me out to be that, you know, anti-running or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Nobody likes cardio.

SPEAKER_08 45:52

No, but I don't really like cardio to be honest. But I think it's the last piece of the puzzle anyway. But I don't think you should pay a personal trainer to watch you run on a treadmill. Unless you're doing running, you know, technique or something very specific. I think you can do that yourself, you know, press the button on your own. Um, I think personal training should be coaching. I think it should be periodized over an amount of time with your goals set in the first place. Um, it should be very methodical. Every rep, every set, every weight you lift should be recorded to be progressed every session. You can't just exercise and hope for a result. That's not how I trained, that's not how I was coached. I had all these people looking after me.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

I was going to say, did someone teach you this or did you just did you learn this yourself?

Starting Over: Scrappy Launch And Demand

SPEAKER_08 46:34

I think it was kind of obvious. I started personal training and I had to do it all. So I had to do everybody's nutrition, which is paperwork. It's not just, you know, your knowledge and staying up to date and learning as much as you can and that constant development, but it's the paperwork. You go home and do five hours of paperwork for your clients for nutrition. You don't get paid for that. You only really get paid for hours on the gym floor. So, you know, you become friends with your clients, you know, very quickly and they know you're busy and they'll say, Oh, just send it to me when, you know, whenever you're ready. And so then, you know, it gets pushed back and they're not getting the service that they need. Um, and I'm not a physio. You know, I'm a great PT, but I'm not a physio. And, you know, people sometimes need extra help. And so I just thought, you know what? I had all these people, like I said, I had a physiologist, I had a nutritionist, I had my uh strength conditioning coach, I had my technical coach and my overall program design and everything. So all these different people. So I wanted to bring, you know, an expert in each area to take care of what they do best with our clients. So our clients have a team of people looking after them as well. They're not just allocated to one person, they have one trainer working with them, but they also have their nutrition coach and their movement specialist as well. Um, and then we have the layers of admin and customer service to make sure that the client really does get what they need. That sounds like a sales pitch, didn't it? But it's I'm passionate, obviously, about it because people don't do this. This industry is so badly regulated and there just isn't customer service from what I've, you know, what I've seen in this industry.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Well, let's just rewind a minute to how it how it how RAW then did come about. So you were so you were doing your Peteing and you decided to go and set up on your own?

SPEAKER_08 48:09

Yeah, so I did a couple of years of PTing and learning the trade, and then um me and my now husband got together. Um, and we but you know, we bring something different to the table, I think, between the two of us. And he was already an exceptional Peter, you know, he was the first sort of person in London who was doing these real before and after pictures and really get, you know, getting these amazing results. Um, and I think as well, I look at it, obviously, I come with the sporting background and the the sports science and stuff, but I think I look at it from a bit of a female perspective and what's a what's the customer service? What do people really want? What makes people feel special and safe and comfortable and everything? And you know, these sort of gyms that just people are so scared of. And so I wanted to create an environment that felt safe for people. I basically I just saw a a gap. I think there's just so much missing from from this industry. And I thought we could do this better. This isn't hard to make this better. So yeah, we we started it, we wrote a business model, we came up with um with a concept and the name, and we found a property. Um, we got some investment, and actually we had an investor, and then we we switched in the end. So um I was training somebody who basically suggested that I know we got on really well and we spent a lot of time together, and he suggested that I had the wrong investor, which I think actually he was he was probably right. We had slightly different visions, um, and he was, and you know, this new investor was just supporting our ideas and the things that we'd we'd sort of come up with and thought that it was brilliant and everything. So, yeah, we we did that and we started a different company. So this was our first company. Um and then, I mean, a very long story short, but in the UK, it was you only had employment rights once you'd served two years employment. Um, and we had employment contracts and ownership agreements. We had a 50-50 ownership agreement, and then we had our employment contracts for whatever tax reasons. Um, and two weeks before we'd served our two years employment, lawyers came in, fired us, escorted us off the premises.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

This is from the good investor.

SPEAKER_08 50:13

Yeah, you know, I mean, amazing. Um, you know, we I mean we registered that company long before he ever came along. Um but yeah, so it was, you know, we were in the worst litigation, and we had a non-compee, and um, so we couldn't work for the year and everything. And this thing that we'd built, you know, from scratch. I mean, my husband designed the logo with a BIRO, you know, we did it from absolutely nothing. Um, that was it just, you know, sort of rug whipped out from underneath you, and it was set up in the, you know, from the start, from you know, people that you think are your friends, um, for us to be removed. So that was, you know, always the intention. And it was, you know, a sort of heartbreaking situation, really. And I'd employed all my friends and and I couldn't even tell them what had happened. Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

You know, because I pause because there's so much, so much so much on my own. No, that was super fast. I'm tapping away, so I don't forget anything. Simple question first. You talk about you came up with a business model. Yes. Uh, your business model, as we were talking about before we started recording, is that everyone is PT'd. Yes. What why why is that the model? Why can't I come in and go on the running machine myself?

SPEAKER_08 51:20

Well, because then first of we don't have running machines. First of all, because we're on the running machines. Because otherwise, then it turns into any commercial gym. So if you think just from a trainer's perspective, if nothing firstly, I want it to be exclusive and and nice and um for people to feel comfortable, like I said, and not overrun. But from a trainer's perspective, you design a plan, you know, you're really you do it because you're passionate. That's why you do this job, and you really want to get this person results, and you've spent all this time working out their program and what you're gonna do. Just say you're gonna do deadlifts and chest press, the first pair, and someone's on the deadlift, so you can't do it now, or you've got to wait 10 minutes in between. So now the program's over, or you just say, Okay, right, I'll do this instead. Now you're making it up. You can't execute a plan in a busy gym, you just have to make do.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

So, how many people will be in your gym at any one time?

SPEAKER_08 52:07

So, um, in London we're 12 at any one time.

SPEAKER_03 52:10

Six 12 clients or six and six?

Hiring Standards And Culture At ROAR

SPEAKER_08 52:12

Six uh 12 clients and 12 trainers. So um people only training with their trainer, so that you know that's 12 stations that are that are being used.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

But using your deadlift example, have you got more than one deadlift area in there?

SPEAKER_08 52:25

Yeah, we've got we've got five platforms, so there's plenty of space, and then obviously two people can work in on them as well. Not everybody's doing deadlifts, so um, and it the team are all part of my team, they're all fully employed, they all know each other, work together really well, and they do lots of uh teamwork stuff and everything. So everybody's on the same page. If one person, you know, when a client wins, it's everybody gets to enjoy that success. So um, yeah, it's never too busy, basically, because I just can't bear that, and you can't actually do the training the way that it was designed.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Cool. So that was the business model you needed to go and raise investment. You'd obviously never done anything like this before. No, how do yeah, how did you think about it?

SPEAKER_08 53:05

I was in the city of London, it's easy to be honest. I know that sounds maybe a bit flippant, but people were will always were always looking for somewhere to put their cash.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

But did but did you have a business plan?

SPEAKER_08 53:15

Or do you Yeah, we'd written we'd written a plan, um, which obviously you just I mean you're always building on that, you know, it always changes and tweaks and it improves. Um, but we had we had a good plan to start with.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Actually, a friend helped with that because I was gonna say that, you know, so you got the plan, but how how did you do it? It obviously it doesn't sound like your your background or or your or your partner's background. Did you you got some help or you jumped on Google?

SPEAKER_08 53:37

No, a friend of a friend of mine um we sat down with who sort of helped us map it out and explained it to us. He was in finance, so um, he gave me some really good advice actually. It was super valuable. Um, and his partner as well gave me some some great advice. And I think I was so lucky in the job that I was doing that I was surrounded by so many successful people. Same as when I started skating. You just you learn so much, and if they're doing it, why can't you do it? I didn't think, you know, I just felt like I belonged. I felt like I could I could do that. And if you don't try, you'll never get anywhere, right? So the money was easy.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Where were your customers going to come from? Were you just gonna lift them from your existing clients?

SPEAKER_08 54:17

Well, you meet lots of people. I was, you know, I was in the city for quite a long time, and he'd been working in the city for longer than me. And the city's one mile, you know, when you're in one office, everybody in there knows you. And obviously, I have some profile because of my sport. Um, and I do the commentary for for BBC for the Olympics and stuff as well. So I was I was known enough, and it happens quickly. You know, word of mouth is is the best tool. If you do a good job with your clients, they will tell people. You get somebody in shape and feeling good and sleeping better and more energy and everything else, they're gonna tell people about that. And then, you know, a personal recommendation is always the best. Everybody that comes to Raw brings somebody else, everybody. So we don't do any marketing, everything is just, yeah, everything's just word of mouth.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

And that's been the same for each each of the ones you've opened and even here in Dubai.

SPEAKER_08 55:07

Yeah, yeah. So the first one was real speakeasy vibes, you know, there was no shopfront. I didn't have any money, so you know, we were painting the walls ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

It's how much did you raise for the first one?

SPEAKER_08 55:17

That was um three, so well, 300,000. Yeah. It it costs, and bearing in mind it's over a million pounds to do.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

I was gonna say that's the price of under 300 grand, you can't even get a shop front.

SPEAKER_08 55:27

I can't believe we did that. I mean, we did it, you know, super budget. There was no real design, it just we just sort of did it in white.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

With all that money for equipment, was it really?

SPEAKER_08 55:36

Yeah, we put a lot of the money on equipment um and built, we did have to build it. It was just it was a basement. And to find that, because we had, I mean, we were skint when we got, you know, axed from our first company. And we were in this panic, we couldn't even work, we didn't even get paid our last month's salary. So um, you know, we were in trouble. And you can't, I couldn't pay an agent to find me somewhere. So I was walking into every building in Bank St. Paul's and Liverpool Street.

SPEAKER_03 56:03

And so when you say axed from your first company, are you talking about the original one you set up? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_08 56:08

Which obviously I won't name.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

Um, that wasn't called raw back then.

SPEAKER_08 56:11

No, that wasn't called raw, that was called something else.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 56:14

Which uh yeah, I did come up with that name as well. But um, no, so that was a different company. So um, yeah, to find a property, even just finding space. I was walking into buildings and saying, What's in your basement? Um, is it open plan? What's the ceiling height? Please can I have the landlord's details? Of course you can't. Can you give him mine? Please don't put it in the bin. I'm coming back tomorrow. And I was usually just ticking off buildings on a map until I found somewhere that was interesting.

Operations, Programming, And Client Results

SPEAKER_03 56:39

So I'm trying to I'm trying to try to keep keep ahead around all this now. So the business you got fired from, yeah, that we won't name, that had an investor.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

And the one that became raw when you were that also had an investor, or you did that yourself? No, that that we did. You did yourself by that.

SPEAKER_08 56:53

Yeah, we we borrowed and screwed. I didn't want anyone to be involved in what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Okay. So let's let's just part that from it. Just talk about the talk about the old one for a bit, just for a I guess a few a few a few learning experiences. Yes. So the investor that you ended up falling out with, that was actually a second investor, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_08 57:08

Yeah. So we had an original investor.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

And what and why did you change? What did you feel wasn't?

SPEAKER_08 57:13

He just had us, he just had a different vision. He wanted, he was looking at very small spaces, he was trying to look at, you know, doing collabs in smaller buildings and that kind of thing. Um, I think just to keep the the investment and the risk down because I mean, we were unproven, which I completely understand.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

So when the new investor came along, how did you get rid of the old one? You just had a lot of people.

SPEAKER_08 57:33

We just agreed, yeah, we just we just agreed. He hadn't paid, he hadn't put any money in yet. We were still at those. You know, we'd we'd done the model and I said the um the you know logo and and everything else, but um yeah, we hadn't we hadn't paid for anything yet. So maybe just a little bit. I think we paid him for um like registration and just small amounts of money, but that was it, he was gone.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

And the new business then that you did with the other investor, how long did you oh so you had it for 23 months?

SPEAKER_08 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

What why did it go wrong?

SPEAKER_08 58:02

Nothing went wrong. It was six months.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

No, not the business, but the the the relationship.

SPEAKER_08 58:06

Um the relationship was fine. We just should open until the 28th. Yeah, we'd just come back from being on holiday with him. Um, you know, we said goodbye, we hugged, love you, all that.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

But never never been a hint of anything.

SPEAKER_08 58:17

No, we were friends. Like, well, I mean, I thought we we were friends.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

So what what was his anger?

SPEAKER_08 58:21

Money.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

But but but what uh but because you you still had your equity, presumably.

SPEAKER_08 58:26

Well, so it's it's a little bit complicated. So we had um we had two contracts. So we had, like I said, the ownership agreement and the employment contract. Um, but we he but he fired us for well, nothing. You know, it had to be gross misconduct, um, which there wasn't any, obviously. Never done anything.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

And he had the I mean was he the majority shareholder effective?

SPEAKER_08 58:48

No, we were we were 50-50. So how did he get I mean it's just it's money when you end up in litigation with somebody and you have nothing and you have no experience, he was, you know, he put the money in in the first place. We didn't. Um he'd really only been in the building a couple of times for 20 minutes or so. And he'd like to get away.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

How did he have the ability to fire you?

SPEAKER_08 59:07

Well, uh lawyers just came in and fired us. I just thought that we I didn't know anything any different. This thing just happened to us, and we ended up in litigation, but each stage stage of litigation cost money that we didn't have. So, in the end, this was going on for a year, and it was so vicious, and and I was so heartbroken by this person. In the end, I was like, this is so negative for us, we just need to do it again. What are we fighting for? We're fighting to stay in business with the worst person I've ever known. Why do we want that? What do we want 50% of this with this person?

SPEAKER_03 59:41

Did you literally just walk away?

SPEAKER_08 59:42

Yeah, we need to get out.

SPEAKER_03 59:43

Walk away from you 50%. Everything we just left. Does the gym still trade?

SPEAKER_08 59:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. Um actually in London, um, they closed, so COVID finished them off. Yeah. Um I think it was actually uh an estate agent that sent me the letter that they sent saying that it they couldn't afford it anymore. So that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

And how how did that experience compare to when you were on on the boards after the crash and and you know, um looking for parallels and analogies or whatever? So you know, you you you you thought you thought your skating career was over, you had a goal to transcend again. At this point, you've now been been duped for want of a better word by by by a friend of a business partner and been skint. You probably don't know if you're gonna you know work work in that you know in that startup industry again. How how how did you feel? Did it bring back memories?

Dubai Move, Expansion, And Lifestyle

SPEAKER_08 1:00:31

Oh, it was it was really tough. I mean, it was quite it was quite traumatic. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie, but I did think I don't I don't want to be in business with this person. And actually, if you think about it, we could have been stuck in business with them, we could have chased that can down the road for years. I could be 50 and then find out that you know, we sell the business and actually we've been screwed over and have nothing. So to be honest, it was a it was three years of my life that was getting that ready, opening and you know, doing almost two years uh with the company. But and it was a rough lesson. And yeah, you know, like I said, we had no money, we were moving from house to house and stuff because I couldn't pay my rent and all sorts, and I didn't really tell anybody because I didn't want people worrying about me. But I just think it made us so desperate and so hungry because we had no option. You know, people talk about me being an entrepreneur because I started something from scratch, but I just think, well, one, I think I'm kind of unemployable, but um, but two, I had no choice. You know, you just you when you really have to get something done, because you see no other option, like what else was I gonna do? I can't get a normal job. So yeah, you know, I'm not qualified to do anything else. So I had to make that work. So we did, and we, you know, I begged and borrowed, and the amount of people that backed us and helped us and spread the word, you know, got some some friends in in press and um, you know, with some profile that I'd helped and had trained everybody for free. Um and then it really got the name out there, and we went crazy. Our business just absolutely shot off. That first one was was huge.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:06

This is the first roar down on this board.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:08

Yeah, when we opened, it was, you know, we were fully booked within a few months. We couldn't fit one more person in that building. It was like there was a queue out the door, and you know, there was no real reception area, and it's all fancy now, but it was just um, yeah, people like one in, one out kind of thing. And you had to sort of squish past people to get to the office to do the consults and try and sort of part people, and because it was a small space as well. Um, but people loved that. People as well that they were training with you know, people in the public eye or people on telly and stuff, and everyone's the same when you get in the gym and you're in your gym kit. So I think people being able to go back to the office and say, Oh, I was training next to this person, or I was talking to this person today. And I think that that did really help as well. Um, and I just got loads of loads of press because of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

Knowing what you know now, would you what would you have done differently on that on that first business with that first partner?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:59

I think um, I mean, I don't like to do that. I don't like to look back and say, well, I could have done this, or I could have, because you could do, I mean, I could have done that with my sport, for example.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

No, but I'm not saying look looking back with regrets, I'm saying you you've you've learnt a lot now. So, you know, put you and again it'd be very easy to go, well, I'll I'll never have a partner again, or I'll never do that. I mean, I don't know, maybe that's your answer. But um, you know, what what what what positives could you could you take from?

SPEAKER_08 1:03:22

I think, I mean, really, we should have, we should have had those contracts checked properly. I mean, I thought I had, I had a lawyer look at them and they thought it was okay, but then I had better lawyers look at it later and they said, Oh, this was this was set up from the start. So I think as far as finances go, as far as money goes, there's always money. That's easy. Like to get people to invest, I really do think if you've got a good plan and a good model, you can find the money. Don't just take the first thing or the best offer or you know the best salesman that comes along and promises you the world. Make sure that what you're doing is protected first and that you can stay true to what you believe is the right thing so you can stay passionate about your business and your brand. Because if you start to water it down or change things because of somebody else's idea, there's always going to be conflict. And if you don't love it anymore, you're never going to put the passion and the time and the energy into it. So I think you have to stick to your guns and know that there'll be more investment. If it doesn't feel right or you don't trust it, you don't need it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:27

Is it just you and your husband who own it now? And would you take an investor on again?

SPEAKER_08 1:04:31

Do you know what? I always said no, but I think, you know, I do look at things differently now. And I think I've I'm wiser than I was. Um, and I would, you know, I I would consider it for sure. It just depends, you know, especially being out here, you look at things a little bit differently. Like if I wanted to expand within UAE, I think I'd like the security of having potentially somebody, you know, more local that understands what's, you know, what's going on, especially if I was going to a different area. I think Dubai is is fairly easy. I mean, we we did it with no experience, or you know, we just literally flew straight in and opened. Um, we didn't do an awful lot of research or anything, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

I'm interested how uh you so you've said that all your PTs are fully employed by you. Yeah. How how do you maintain or how do you find and maintain good quality there? And I guess I asked a question from the context of particularly in Dubai, there are some seriously expensive um in um self-employed trainers. I mean, but yeah, but particularly particularly compared to the UK. And I guess you that the the natural assumption would be that if you're any good, you work for yourself because because you you know you're you're able to charge charge big money. I mean, I would assume you're not able to pay a PT a wage that would be the same on an hourly rate, the same as what someone would pay an individual.

Training Philosophy, Recovery, And Trends

SPEAKER_08 1:05:44

Well, because they're not working on an hourly rate, they're they're employed. Yes. So um, you know, they they have their salaries based on different things, but they have their salary, they do have commission as well, which is based on certain factors to help, you know, to help them boost their their earnings, but you Know if you've served some time, so you know, I mean, I brought my guys over from the UK to start this, which you know I think was important that we had one, we had people around us that we really like and care about, and we could give them that um that opportunity to move. Um, trainers and and management as well, which is it's nice to be able to do that. You know, you're completely changing people's lives, but they earn great because they put the hours in, they do, you know, they do anything I need. If I say, Can you do this? And it's out of their hours, they're not getting paid for it. Well, they're still they'll do it. I don't, you know, I don't feel bad about asking because you know, they're committed to the business, they want it to do well, they're very proud of Raw. You know, it's it's an exceptional thing, and you can't, it's difficult to explain until you come in and see it. But come next week.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

Come on. You're gonna train me. You're gonna train me.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:47

What day? Let's agree this now.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

So it's official. But we'll agree afterwards, but definitely one day next week. I train at uh I train at train SF normally. Okay. So I'll I'll I'll come down and see.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:57

Yeah, just come in, come in for a one-off. It's um it's good fun, and it's like I said, it's really positive. Everybody's everybody's nice, but it's a real dynamic floor environment. So people are getting the job done, but you don't need to you know yell at people and make people feel bad or abuse them. Positive encouragement works just as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

Where do you find your uh PTs from? Are they uh as in of the people who are already experienced in the industry, or do you like to take, let's say, someone I was gonna say, someone raw for forgive the pun and raw them even more?

SPEAKER_08 1:07:26

A little bit, so um, a bit of both, really. So we say you need two years' experience. Um, obviously you have to be well qualified in the first place. And when we opened RAW, I mean, we interviewed 400 people for the first 13 spots, and that was in-person interviews. That was after going through thousands of CVs. Um the next most important thing to me, really, after you know, being qualified, is are you a good person? You know, are you nice? Are you gonna are you gonna fit in with a team? Do you care about your clients? Do you care, you know, do you really want them to do well so that they feel good and you know, they feel confident and everything else? Because if you don't, you won't last in this industry because that's your job satisfaction. Making people feel good and helping people is where you'll get your job satisfaction. And if you don't care about that, then you know, what is it? What's it for? Just your own ego and earning a bit of money.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

So who sets the programs? Is it your individual PTs or is it like a master PT that like so you take me on as a client and you'll let's say you see me and you'll be right, right, this is Matt's program Monday to Friday, but then you pass me off onto onto Steve to see it through.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:32

No, so what happens is all the trainers are trained through the way that we train um and how we like people to be trained. So, regardless of you know how qualified somebody can be, you can have a degree, sports science degree, you still need to get trained through our methods that have consistently got the results. It does filter down. So uh when somebody comes in, they have their assessments. So you have a movement screening and a nutrition assessment. So basically, loads and loads of questions, um, trying to find out as much information about the person as possible so you can make their plan bespoke. The nutritionist designs their nutrition plan, um, the trainer designs the training program. Um, and then the team are working together to make sure that it happens because obviously the nutrition and the training needs to work together. You need to be fueled for the workouts you're doing, you need to uh eat to recover from the training session so you get the most out of it, and then you need to eat for whatever the, you know, whatever the goals are. And underlying all of that, optimal health has to be the most important thing. If you're not healthy, you won't get the results.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

Why did you come out here?

SPEAKER_08 1:09:33

We came here in lockdown, um, even though everybody hated people coming out here in lockdown. But it's the only place to go, and it was so measurable in the UK. And I was like, let's just go.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:40

Because you were not working at the time, the gym was closed.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:43

It was closed, we were closed for a year, right? A year we weren't, we weren't allowed to open.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

Um You're not my my trainer used to take me to the park. You're not trained, were you not training anyone on the side?

SPEAKER_08 1:09:52

Well, no, there wasn't. I mean, for me, there wasn't there wasn't really any point, you know. If we weren't going to come back, then we were kind of finished anyway, right? So we had all our we had half a million pounds that we had to spend in rent that year um with zero income. So it, you know, it was it was difficult, but I think I think in London the strong survived, lots of places closed down, which does see new people come, which I feel awful for some of those, for some of those companies. Um, but we, you know, we looked after our team, pretty much everybody came back and the clients came back. People wanted to get back in the gyms by the time we were allowed to open. I was lucky actually, I got a couple of um actually I was on, I was on like morning TV a few times leading up to that, talking about business, um, which helped a lot for sure. So we had some good publicity just before we opened.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:39

So when you came out here, did you come initially? You didn't come to movie, you just came for a holiday to dodge lockdown?

PEDs, TRT, And Gym Culture Reality

SPEAKER_08 1:10:45

Basically, yeah, yeah. And then um, when we were talking about where to expand next, we wanted to go abroad, and that was always the plan. I was like, let's just have a look at properties in Dubai. So we just we viewed a few properties. Um, now our Kensington branch, so in London, we're in Liverpool Street Bank and High Street Kensington. And Kensington took two years to negotiate the lease, so almost three years from putting in an offer to opening. So that was you know slow. And I just assumed the same here. Um, so we looked at a few and we decided to put an offer in the one that we liked the most, just to sort of see how that goes. And it was accepted. And then two weeks we had the lease, and we were like, Oh, how do you do a business in Dubai then? So we're like, okay, so we do have to move. Um, so we just sort of upsticked, sort of left all our, you know, all our stuff and and just moved out here quickly so that we could oversee the the build project and everything. Um, so yeah, we're but by that point you knew you were staying here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:42

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we settled in pretty quick. It didn't take long.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:45

I mean, it sucks it sucks you in. Had you been to Dubai before you came during lockdown?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:50

A few times. No, Dubai, I think it does, it does suck you in, but it's the just the best quality of life. When I looked at it for holiday, I wasn't that keen because I like nature and culture and history when I go somewhere and I want to, you know, explore very uh nature especially. And you know, Dubai, that's not what it's known for.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:09

What's it like working with your husband?

SPEAKER_08 1:12:11

Great. Always good. Yeah, yeah, really good, really, really good, actually. I think when you have, um, I know it's a bit sickening, but when you have this common goal, um, you know, you both want the same thing. You're both trying to get to this place. We agreed on what that was a very long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:25

What is it? What's the goal?

SPEAKER_08 1:12:26

Well, just with with the business and where we want to take it. That changes all the time. But we want to, the time that we're going to be working, as long as we're passionate about it and as long as we care about it, which, you know, we're still the same as we were seven years ago with regards to that, um, then we'll keep opening more gyms. And as long as we can, you know, keep the quality and we don't water it down, and we've got some really good people within the business, which we're lucky enough to have, then we'll keep moving it forwards. Because I see, you know, the people working for us, like the bigger raw gets, then they get to grow within it, you know, and I'll always promote from within. And we've really done a lot to make sure that people can diversify their roles because people don't want to be personal trainers when they're 50. So you have to find a career path for them and not just, you know, an hourly job, if you like. So yeah, it's it's good. We have different roles within the business. You know, his he brings something to the table, I bring something different to the table, and we've really sort of honed those down as well. And we don't overlap. You know, I do PR stuff and and that side of things, and he doesn't even look at it, he wouldn't get involved, he doesn't care, he doesn't, he doesn't have Instagram or anything. He's not, you know, um, he decided once to push me forwards and make me the face of the business because he just thought I was better than him. Um, he's very good, you know, he he speaks great, he's looks good and everything, and but yeah, it's just not what he likes. So, you know, he looks after the business model. He, you know, he lives in that and knows it inside out. And I used to do it, but I won't even look at it anymore. You know, I trust him, I know that he knows what he's doing, I know that he's got it, so I don't need to interfere with that, for example. Um, so yeah, we have very different job roles within Raw.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:03

And and any any rules when you get home that, you know, we're we're not talking about work at dinner or you know, it it you you love it so much that you don't mind if it's now we always we always talk about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:12

Because you know, you have to when things pop into your head, it's only when you have downtime that you get creative, I think. So we do give ourselves time off. Um, we don't just stay in the office at work the whole time because then you're just dealing with day-to-day stuff, and there's always day-to-day stuff, but that other people can handle it. Um, but it's when you take take yourself away from it and you actually have downtime or you go on holiday that you you can wind down and actually think about what we could do next. And then you start just talking about ideas and you get more creative, and that's the fun bit, and then you know, that's how you how you grow the business. So, like I've never felt guilty about taking time out or taking time off because that's when stuff really gets done. The day to day, we've got enough people now in the business that can handle everything. So, you know, I don't need to be doing that side of things. Um, just we're here to push the business forward.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:02

Tell me, what was Piers Morgan like to train?

SPEAKER_08 1:15:05

He's great, he's a good friend, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

He doesn't he doesn't look like the uh the the pinnacle of uh peak fitness.

Lessons In Resilience And Final CTA

SPEAKER_08 1:15:12

You know, he enjoys his life. Um but he's the thing is he trains consistently, so he trains twice a week. Oh, he still trains. Yeah, with my guy James, um one of my PT managers. Um so he trains twice a week with him, and his his wife as well, Celia, trains three times a week consistently for for quite a long time now. And you have you have to do your bit. Your life is your life, and not everybody is coming in to be a transformation and to you know to get all ripped up, whatever. Some people need to sleep better and need more energy. And you know, the stronger you are, the easier everything in your life is. Um, and even then, you know, when you're ready, if you're strong and you're able to train hard and you're able to create intensity, then when you're ready, then you can bring in other elements and it's it's a journey for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

And like when you know, when a client, for example, is doing two days a week, are you telling them that they should be doing other stuff on the days that they're not with you?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:02

So ideally, it's three days a week. Um, usually people will do 12 weeks. We do eight and 12 week packages generally. Um, most people do 12 weeks because I think that's long enough to really get yourself in shape.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:14

So three times a week for 12 weeks. Yeah, that's the most important thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:18

Yeah, you can, but I don't, I generally don't advise it. For guys, if you've been training and you say for guys, but some women as well, but women generally will recover slower than men. Um so if you've been training and you are conditioned, then maybe you can recover properly. But I want people, it's not just more and more and more exercise and eat no food. You know, where does that go? Which is what everyone's trying to do. You know, you have to come in and train hard and recover, train hard, recover, train hard. You can't just do more.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:46

See, I get so grumpy if I'm not doing something every day.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:48

Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm 100% and the same. I get that.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:51

I do weights on a Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Yeah. I do boxing on a Monday and a Wednesday. Yeah. I play football on a Sunday, and I'll do probably two or three games of paddle through the week as well. That's good. Go for a walk with my with my music on.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I walk. I weight train and walk, and that's that's pretty much it. I do a bit of sport if you know something's going on, I'll join in. But um, but yeah, mostly just weight training and walking. I won't sacrifice the weight training for me, it's the most important bit. I want to stay strong. I think a longevity.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:22

You might tell me I'm wrong because obviously you've been around the around the business and the industry. But as a as a layman, I see that weight weight training is something that's been very much moved to promoting over the last few years compared to like years ago. You know, like back in the I don't let's say the mid-90s to the late 2000s, PT very much seemed to be about putting a little circuit together and you know and and and like you say, watching someone on the running machine, watching someone watching someone on the rowing machine, whereas you know, people seem to be and particularly women, because you know, w women and weights never never you never used to go together because I think everyone has that conception that if you do a couple of days of weights, then then you're gonna look like Arnold Swartz anymore. You're not gonna look like a woman anymore. Yeah. Uh but it's you know, it does seem to be a you know the kind of base of of most trainers' training now.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:08

Yeah, well, I used to have to convince people to weight train, you know, I used to have to talk people into it and try and you know explain why that they why they should. And now everybody knows that they should weight train, but lots of people still don't know how. So that's you know where we come in. And what you're talking about, you know, what people used to do with regards to PT, that's just exercise, which is good, you know. You can you know all exercise is good, and you know, being there to help encourage somebody or be, you know, a bit the cheerleader or whatever is is fine, but I don't think that's that valuable, you know, especially once you're once you've sort of got to grips with things and you know what you're doing, just go into a class if you're gonna train that way. You know, if you really want to achieve a goal, whatever it is, it has to be there has to be a method, it has to be periodized over an amount of time with that goal in mind, and you have to keep making progress.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

And now you're not in professional sport and can talk about doping. Yeah. Uh what's your um what's your views on on hormone rebalancing, testosterone, growth hormone, that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:04

Not in professional sport, I mean in day-to-day life for uh so I mean it, you know, it's something that's abused at the end of the day. And um, you know, for testosterone replacement, if you're a guy, you start to get older and you're checking your hormones and and everything, and you want to keep your levels uh, you know, as they were and try and maintain, then 100% you definitely should. For anti-aging and longevity and everything, then I think it's you know potentially a really good idea. Um, the problem in my industry is that you know, the abuse of of steroids and and whatnot is is rife. And it's you know, it's something that's very addictive as well. Of course, it makes you stronger and you do get gains that you can't get naturally. So people see that quick fix and of course they want, they keep wanting that. But you know, when you're it's like with anything, when you're young, you don't necessarily think about what that's going to mean for the future or what the what the negative side effects are and everything. You just want that thing that you've, you know, the reason that you're there for. So yeah, it's it's a bit of a it's definitely dodgy territory. And I'm from a clean sport, you know, there's not a lot of um using in my sport. There definitely was none in Team GB, and obviously I would have to say that. But you know, if I just think I was the most senior, I my ex-partner was my teammate and ended up becoming the national coach while I was still an athlete. So we, you know, we had to go for quite a long time. And if anyone was going to have that conversation, it would be with me, I would have thought, because I was, you know, privy to what was going on behind the scenes. Um and it was never something that was a discussion with me. So I know that nobody else on my team would have been talked to or that would never have been suggested. And we were drug tested all the time. So for us and our sport, and in the UK, it's very much seen as the worst thing in the world you can do in sport. And obviously, other countries have different feelings about it. Um, but in the UK, if you're a drug cheat in sport, you should be gone. And we all felt very strongly about that. And then when I moved into this industry and I see how many people are doing it to improve on the gym floor, and I think it's just not safe. You know, it's not about cheating or who gets biggest, who cares?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

That's you know, but it's yeah, but you're saying it's not so you're not saying it's not safe in general, you're saying it's not safe if done unsupervised.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:15

Yeah, and it's and also what you know, what for? If it's there's one thing is like doing something for sport, or if it's one because you, you know, of insecurity, you take an insecure young lad and you know, put him on a load of gear and he, you know, feels a certain way, is if he's going to be able to stop doing that. It becomes your identity, and then you're stuck in there. And of course, you you know, links with depression and everything else. So I don't know. I just think, yeah, I mean I'm I just think you should stay away from it personally. I think you can do so much without it, and I think everybody, just so many people are using in that sort of body that is created. I don't know many people that even like that. It's only it's for other guys. Why are you doing it? Is it to get you know girls because they're not really keen?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:59

I don't think they like that body, don't they?

SPEAKER_08 1:22:00

I don't think they do. Um, but really it's not for girls because girls don't like it. So really it's so that other guys like nod and you know, you're like thumbs up at each other, and it's like you're getting a bit lost, I think now. I understand passion to try and you know do something or better yourself or improve or whatever, but I just think yeah, it's it's not regulated. Um, and people do get very addicted and it's a dangerous slope, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:22

Well, listen, it has been a pleasure having you here. Incredible journey. I mean, businesswoman, athlete, you know, if you had to look back over the last, I guess, you know, 20, 20 plus years of it now, you know, what would be, you know, one main lesson that you've that you've learned about your personal growth or personal development, you know, that one piece of advice for you know for someone coming up in today's world?

SPEAKER_08 1:22:40

I think to not give up. I know I know people say that kind of thing all the time, but it's because it's so true. You know, I think the reason that so many businesses don't succeed is because people quit. The business would have been fine. You know, everybody fails, everybody fails all the time. Everyone with any success has failed. Um, and that's obviously where you learn your lessons and you just have to keep going. It doesn't matter. Go again. You know, like what's the worst that can happen? You but you have to try. I think people just don't get started, they worry too much and overthink everything. If you want to start a business, you should just get started. So just you learn on your feet, you know, get started and just keep going until you succeed. Everyone thinks it happens overnight, and it doesn't, it's years. And I mean, I consider my speed skating career as part of that as well. Like everything that you learn from that, everything you've done until that point is still part of the same journey, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:35

Absolutely. Well, listen, love the story. Very much looking forward to coming to the gym.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:39

Yeah. But wait.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:41

And I guess, yeah, if a final thing, just keep going. Leg day, right? I don't mind leg day. Yeah, we've got this horrible leg machine at the gym I go to. I'd never seen it before I came to Dubai. It's like a pendulum.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:50

Is it is it the pendulum squat?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:52

Yeah, yeah, like yeah, like you kind of sit in it and like yeah, we'll pendulum into a squat, but even with no weight on it, it's a heavy machine. It's a terrific piece of kit.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:02

Yeah, we've got a we've got a version of.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:05

Oh, I'll I'll let you, I'll I'll let you do it too mate. But just a little shout out for you and the gym, you know, where can people find you? Where can you find the gyms?

SPEAKER_08 1:24:12

I mean, if literally if you Google Raw Dubai, then then you'll find it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:16

O A R.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:17

R O A R. Yeah. Fitness Dubai. So we're on the we're on the boulevard downtown. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:22

Can they find you on the gram?

SPEAKER_08 1:24:23

Yeah, I'm on the gram raw fitness girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:25

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:26

Uh Sarah, thank you very much.