The Truth About Denominations, Power, And Christ's Peace

Today, I sit down with Tom Snow, a powerful believer whose decades-long journey in faith cuts through the noise of manmade religion, denominations, and legalism, getting straight into the heart of spiritual truth. 

In this episode, Mr. Snow and I cover a topic that’s close to both of us—what it really means to follow God outside the constraints of denominations and religious systems. Mr. Snow shares his early experience being healed of terminal cancer after an audible encounter with God, and how that moment reshaped his entire walk with Christ. He explains what it means to be "in Christ" and how the fullness of the Godhead lives in every believer willing to yield.

We dig deep into the history of the charismatic movement, spiritual abuse within leadership, and the demonic forces operating behind denominational control. Mr. Snow reveals how power-hungry leaders and false prophets twist scripture for control, and he breaks down the dangers of chasing gifts instead of the Giver. He doesn’t hold back when exposing how many churches, even non-denominational ones, have become spiritual Egypts—designed to keep people enslaved under false belief systems while calling it faith.

We also talk about spiritual warfare, the peace of God that surpasses understanding, and how to develop discernment in a world full of religious deception. Mr. Snow’s books, The Daily Stand and Set the Captives Free, serve as guides for believers looking to walk in truth, be released from bondage, and start living spirit-led lives.

Additionally, I share about some of the outcastment and criticism that I've faced in my journey of faith.

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Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I'm excited for today's episode number one. I always love talking to believers. As I've said in previous episodes, there's just a different energy and connection when, you know, two men or two women or a man and woman of God get together and have a conversation.

It's just beautiful. And today's guest, especially someone I can relate to for those who haven't been keeping up with my journey, I've been pretty outcasted in my journey of faith because I am, I. I don't even like to say the word non-denominational because there's so much around it. I believe in God and Christ, and I believe in everything in the Bible.

And so many people wanna say, well, are you Catholic? Are you Protestant? Are you Baptist? Because I wear a cowboy hat, they assume I'm Baptist. And no, that's not the case. A lot of people call me Jew, fake Jew, false Jew non Gentile because of my interest in Hebrew and Greek. And for those of you who don't know, I have, I do have Hebrew marked on me that says Navi Boca, which is weeping prophet.

And a lot of people think because I follow a kosher diet and a lot of stuff, I celebrate Purim Feast of Investor, that I'm a, I'm a Jewish person and that's also not the case. I follow what God says to do and what he says not to do. I try to follow that. That's a little more difficult sometimes than doing what he says.

And so today we're gonna talk about that, about denominations, about how. The irony of Christ coming down and saying, Hey, y'all took religion and you took God's word, you added stuff to it. You made these legalistic bonds. You made practices to make holier than thou kind of stuff happen. And he says, don't do that.

And the way, the truth and the light, right? Relationship, personal. And then people said, Christianity, we're gonna make a new religion and we're gonna make all these different denominations and rules based on what Christ said, which is exactly the opposite of what he said. So we're here to talk about that and to set the catches free from some of the churches that are the modern Egypt.

I love that analogy, and we're gonna get into that with Mr. Tom Snow. He has been a believer for many decades longer than I've been alive. And so we're gonna get into some of the wisdom he has learned through both humbling experiences and his journey of faith through the word and study of it. So, Mr.

Snow, so glad to have you here. Thank you for having me. I appreciate hearing your heart. I love everything I heard. We aren't called to be denominations. We aren't called to be religions. We aren't called to be anything other than believers. Yes. The believers at Antioch were the first ones to be called Christians.

Christian means Christlike. So we're supposed to be like Christ, which Christ we always go is Jesus' last name. I mean, don't we just treat it like that's Jesus' last name, Jesus Christ, Tom Snow, John Smith, Sally Jones, Christ, his last name. People think, oh, well, and I, and I love that you love the Greek and the Hebrew.

I dig deep in that. That's. I am a Jew from both sides of my lineage. Didn't know that till I was 16 because of persecution of the Jews. That long history of lineage of that. So my family hid that from me and my brothers. I'm the youngest of three. I'm not that young anymore. I'm still younger than them though.

But you know, we to be in Christ, and we can get into this in a minute, but that word is not his last name. The word Christ, a lot of times in the scripture is interpreted as Messiah. That's really not what it means. It means in the Greek, the anointed one or the anointing. And it's Jesus, the anointing.

And when we begin to understand that, when we ask the Lord to come into our life, we were sealed in our spirit. Deep inside of us. The thing we didn't know we were dead, became alive, and the fullness of the Godhead got put right in there. Now, we, any of us who say we have the fullness of the Godhead and know that we live with that, you'd be, you'd be speaking baloney.

You know, it's, we don't understand the fullness of the Godhead that's in us, that's Christ in us, the anointing in us, the hope of glory. And when Christ comes forth, as Jesus said, when it breaks through, through our soul, through our mind, our heart, our feelings, our beings overflows our body, rivers of living waters.

Jesus said chapter John, chapter seven, then we begin to experience the fullness of the Godhead in a moment just a little bit. You know what we've tasted the best you've ever tasted to anybody out there is just a tiny smidgen of what the fullness of the God that is. So I like you. I'm a believer. I grew up in the charismatic move.

I was born again in 1970. I was six, 16 years old, dying of terminal cancer. And that was a given. I had a rock's hard tumor inside of me, the size of a football. I knew I was dying, but when I met the Lord and I had that life that came in me, I was no longer afraid of dying. And I didn't run to the altar.

Like, you know, a lot of times we all want, I'm not a masochist, I don't like pain. You know, if I, if I stub my toe, I don't like it, and I ask the Lord to help it, okay? I'm not stupid. But at the same time, when I met the Lord and I was dying, and I hadn't known him, and I'd grown up in denominational churches you know, Presbyterian Lutheran.

My mother had met the Lord, as I say, Jewish lineage, both sides. My mother wasn't afraid. She died just the year before me from cancer. And so, you know, I was scared to death. I didn't know where I was going. The loving father reached out to me and actually spoke to me audibly. It's in my first book, the whole story.

First and only time I ever heard him audible. The rest of us, we always can hear him with a still small, quiet voice. I was so screwed up. He just really needed to reach out. I also had a praying mother and anybody who has a praying relative that prays for you, be thankful. Always be thankful for the praying relative.

And so the Lord spoke to me and when he did the room. Was filled with a thundering voice, so thundering and loud, and yet so full of love. Mm, love you couldn't imagine. I'd never tasted love like that before. The only love I'd ever experienced was this little bit with my mother. You know what I'm saying?

Earthly level. And when she died, that was gone. My father and brothers were hard rocks. We, we all didn't show love in the family. Maybe it was common in the sixties. And so when God spoke, he said, I love you, and someday I'll provide you perfect mate for you. And what he said, as I said, it was like roaring thunder and yet so full of love.

It was amazing. It was like, how do I reach that love? I was so screwed up. Long story. I won't spend a lot of time on that story unless you want to delve back into it. Very involved, intense, but he needed to reach out because I was so screwed up in so many ways, and I appreciate that. And long story won't get into the whole story, but he put people in my life so I could hear the gospel.

The devil tried to destroy me for the next eight months, you know, I became the worst of the worst. I was a 16-year-old alcoholic riding with biker gangs and the Hell's Angels and all this stuff. And because after I'd asked the Lord to come into my life, I was so full of so much garbage on the inside.

I couldn't feel him. Right. I was just on here the other day with an atheist, and I'm telling you that that was a trip having a podcast with an atheist who has his box created, that he's always entrapping you trying to, my wife's like, are you sure you really wanna do this? I go, Hey, God didn't, the Lord didn't shy away from the sinner.

I'm not gonna argue with him. I'm not gonna get into all of his baloney, but I will gladly try to share the truth of the gospel. And it was quite a, quite an adventure. I don't recommend it for the feeble of heart 'cause it's really was cha you know, it's challenging. He's just every comes from every angle and he has everything all figured out and how he can try to trap you and make you fall into all of his trap so he can say, God's not real.

And I know by not just God audibly speaking, but when he, when I did finally come to, you know, realize he was there. And at that point my life changed so tremendously and I was just 1970. I was so full of the love of God at that point. When I finally, the broke, it broke through that he was there, that he got past all the crap.

Sorry if I, my language won't be perfect. I'm, I'm not, by the way, I'm not religious. I'm not fake spiritual. I am not of any denomination or religion. So you and I will agree on that. Sometimes I'm a little crude and if that comes out, I apologize. But really, I found out Papa, God's not offended. So I don't worry about it.

It's just the religious spirits of religious people with religious spirits that get offended. And that's a shame. Jesus hung out with a rough crowd and he wasn't afraid of it. So, but when the love of God came through and I knew it, I began to tell everybody about the love of God. I went from my high school being this crazy hippie, rough guy riding with the Hell's Angels, driving an old, driving a Harley chopper.

I build up now, I became this Jesus freak, and there, what in the, what in the heck is going on? He went from one extreme to the other, and now he's telling everybody about the love of Jesus. And, you know, and I was dying and I didn't care. I wasn't afraid of dying anymore. Dying didn't mean a thing. 'cause now I knew where I was going.

There was not a question in my mind. And so, you know, down the road, I, the Lord brought me into churches. There's nothing wrong with being in good churches with good leaders who, and we talked the difference between good and bad leaders in a minute. 'cause I know that's part of what's in my heart in my second books, that the captives free and in what you addressed and you and in your heart.

Yeah. So we need to talk the difference between good leaders, bad leaders, good churches, bad churches. In a minute I'll tell you about religions and denominations. So I was just learning, walking with the Lord. You know, we all can talk with the Lord. Still small, quiet voice and daily communion. And I, to me, communion isn't, get on your knees, clap your hands.

And just do that kind of praying. To me, it's walking with God day in and day out. And I ask the helper of the Holy Spirit to always try to get, help me see what the father's doing, to hear what the father's saying. And I love to commune with through the spirit of God, the, you know, with the Father, with Papa God.

'cause he's papa. And that's what Abba father means in the scripture, Papa. So I love just walking with the Lord now. And then, and my daily life. I, I life is supposed, we're supposed to be praying constantly, right? It's supposed to be a life of prayer. What does that mean? You get on your knees 24 7.

You don't work, you don't take care of your family. You don't do a job. You, well, that would be stupid. That'd be silly. No, he's to be a participant in every aspect of our lives. The good, the bad, the ugly. I have a lot of bad and ugly days. You know, I'm not anything close to perfect at all. What I've learned in 55 years walking with Papa God is, it has nothing to do with me.

Never did. It says we were saved by grace, not by works that no one can boast. Isaiah says, our righteousness is like filthy rags. So on your very best day, you are the most religious person out there who wants to be so religious for God. And don't get me wrong, after He saved me, filled me and actually healed me.

And I'll tell you the story of the healing in a minute that I became so religious. It was ridiculous because I wanted to serve God. I wanted to do everything for him. I was, I, I was gonna just do ev you know, everything. And so I, I gained this religious spirit and we need to watch out for those religious spirits.

'cause it's not from God the Father with the Big G. It's from the God of this world with the little g. Because he had, we fight against, we don't fight against flesh and blood, but rulers and principalities overpowers. And so that's the God of this world and his demonic forces that fell from heaven. So yeah, I, I got all crazy religious and wanted to, you know, I was so religious as my spiritual father said I was, had my head so far in the clouds.

I was no earthly good, you know? And people thought I was a weirdo, spiritual weirdo. And I was actually, because it was human induced. It was out of love for the father that I was doing everything I could. But he didn't need that. He didn't need me to be a religious freak. He needed me to be humbled and yielded to him.

And if I can tell you anything in 55 years walking with Papa God, and when I wasn't walking with him, like footsteps in the sand, but he was carrying me that. All he wants is an open heart. He wants a humble heart. Someone you can who will love him, seek him, want him, and you go, well, I don't, you know, and, and we have all these religious ideas.

What seeking him means really, his truth is so simple. It's just not easy. It's simple. Open your heart, yield yourself to the father, and let the peace of God rule in your heart. Philippians four, seven. One of the most important verses any of us can ever learn is that the peace of God that passes understanding will guard our hearts and our minds and protect us.

That's the one thing the devil can't recreate. He can recreate gifts, he can recreate. He actually runs denominations. We'll talk about that in a moment. Let's back up. I was talking to Papa God, I, and I grew up from, in the charismatic move from 1970 to 1977. I was told it began in 68. I wasn't there to know.

I watched it die in 77. And I talk about why it died in my first book because men tried to take over men and demons. And that's, that's a real problem that we face in all churches. And, but pop talking to Papa God watching miracles. I mean there was, the power of God was amazing. We used to say we'd go to church six days a week and twice on Sunday.

And it was more truth than fiction. 'cause we would meet Wednesdays and Sundays for church, but we added home groups almost every other night. And we wanted to be in the presence of God. We could be there for hours and the presence of God would move. And you'd think it was minutes and it was never enough.

You could never have enough of the presence of God. And in those days, we didn't have song leaders like you have nowadays. You know, who have their song teams. And I'm saying, it's not saying it's not pretty music, it's, it's okay. But when you've tasted the spirit of God, when you've seen the Holy Spirit flow and comes into a room and one person begins in a song, and maybe even they started with a hymn, who knows?

And all of a sudden it just blossoms across like waves blossoming throughout the whole meeting of 200 people. And you're just in the presence of God and you don't, and, and we're just singing and worshiping, and you see First Corinthians take place of, of tongues, interpretations, prophecy, and, and the pastor would hardly ever get to preach.

He'd stand up and he'd, he'd be prepared, but he'd go, does anyone have the word of the Lord today? And usually there'd be two or three as it says in Corinthians two or three prophets speak. The word prophet, by the way, is not as powerful as everyone makes it. Yes, there's an office of the prophet, but prophet and I go on a lot of tangents.

I'll come back. The word prophet, if you look at the Latin pro means forth. That means to speak, speak forth. So a prophet of God is someone who speaks forth the current wi living word of the Lord. Well, if we're in tune with the Lord, then we can speak at forth, we can be prophetic. We can give his word in that moment.

And so in that moment, there'd be two or three people that would have the word pastor hardly ever got the preach, which was fine because he loved the Lord. It was the Baptist church that gave up the Baptist name and 'cause he was the head of the Southern Baptist Convention, they kicked him out because he got filled with the spirit.

And they don't like, you know, and that day they were very critical. They now talk about being filled with the spirit, but it's not the same. And that's okay. I'm not whole, I'm not against anybody, you know, I just wanna see the captive set free. But in that time, we would have so much wonderful time and I would be, we would be there late, late, late and every, you know, night driving home, just like the day I'd be talking to the Lord and you know, just communing, you know, the still small, quiet voice.

But if you learn to listen, you can hear it. Often we see in part, we know in part. So I won't say, oh, you heard it all and I was all perfect. No, that, that would be a dumb thing to say that we know it all or we hear it all, or we hear it all correctly. But we learn to listen and we let the peace of God rule in our heart.

So we know. And so I was driving home one night and it was funny because I wouldn't go up for the altar calls to go get prayed for, to get healed. And I would, you know, I had this rock hard tumor in me. I was dying. I didn't care. I was going home to see Papa soon. So it really wasn't a big deal from my side.

The pain I was used to, it was no big deal. It was just, I get to go home and one night I was riding home and the Lord said to me, do you see in Isaiah where I said, by his stripes, you are healed. And I said, yeah. He says, do you see in one Peter where I say, by his wounds, you were healed? Are its current to future?

Were his past? He says, Isaiah was looking to the future, to the cross. Mm-hmm. Peter was looking back at the cross. He said, I completed it all at the cross. It's done. Everybody's praying for new healings, Uhuh. It was complete. It's all done. He says, would you like to receive that healing? Now I was getting ready to go home, be the papa of God.

I'm just having the time of my life and I was like nonchalant, ah, sure, whatever. You know, like I don't care, you know, whatever. But in that moment I felt a change. And within 24 hours, the rock hard tumor, the size of a football in my abdomen, melted, dissipated, and was a hundred percent gone. So the power of the living God, let's walk with him.

Let's not tell him how to run his show. That's why the charismatic move died was 'cause people took over trying to quantify, qualify, tell God how to run a show. So it ended, it split into two movements, the discipleship movement, the faith movement. Let me let you ask a question 'cause I'm so long-winded and then we'll get on to religions, denominations, anything you like, and I'll get a coffee sip.

For sure. Yeah. I wanna start by sharing a quote. I think it's always important to go back to the word, and you kept talking about death in life. And I kept thinking of Paul in Philippians 1 21 where he says, for to me to live is Christ and to die his gain. And I think you know, you're, you're an embodiment of that, you know, you obviously are still here and all that time you've been preaching about Christ.

But at the same time, anytime it's time to go home, you're ready. So I think that's important for a lot of believers to remember. I think a lot of people get caught up on, you know, what's in this world. And I think it's, while we're here, let's do what we need to. And when it's time to go, it's time to go.

I think one of the most refreshing. Refreshing in a scary way sometimes book is Ecclesiastes. I know anytime you read that, it's like, chill down the spine and it's, that's a great reminder of this world and the next one. And then mm-hmm. I think it's interesting, like you said, the, a lot of people call him Jesus Christ, but if I'm thinking, if Christ means the anointing one, if you said Jesus the Christ, you would be saying, Jesus, the, the anointed one.

So, and he said, Jesus a Christ, it would be Jesus a, the anointed one. So it's an interesting dynamic there when you find different languages, you know, and there's plenty of stuff online about Jesus, what's his real name, how do you say, and stuff like that. And you can get caught up on a lot of technical points if, if you want.

But yeah, I do think that's interesting. We, we often say it like a last name and I, you know, first name Jesus last name Christ. And you talked about having him come into your life and in pretty good detail. So I don't want to go. Back into all of that, I definitely wanna move forward into, you know, so that was back when you were 16.

At what point did all the, the wisdom and knowledge about your views on denominations and about leaders, when did that start to play in your life? Well, that's a good question. Yeah, I was part of the charismatic move. I grew in positions of, you know, leadership or teaching or, you know, part of, part of, you know, leader of a home group in my own home.

You know, leading teaching, prophetic, you know, doing different things. Got into ministry, you know, working with different leaders. And I got in kind of what you call the normal, right? Just kind of growing in that, but. Along the way. That actually was about 40 years plus ago that I started writing my first book called The Daily Stand, and it's a book on spiritual warfare.

Because I'd seen and walked with my spiritual father, we had seen so many things of the power of God, and it was time to teach that into the body so that we can learn to walk in Christ in the anointing, get, keep our hearts pure, get things set right. You know, not purity of our own, but hearts yielded and get rid of unforgiveness and get rid of the, the cursing and make it blessing.

And we don't know that in the church we curse so much. It's ridiculous. Our prayers are scary. We have some bad things that, that we can do. Not everyone, but we can. And it's not just the devil and it's not who's, it's not just witches and warlocks. That put on curses and spells so much information needed to be taught.

And I wrote the book and I put, you know, it was a two inch thick binder of all this information and then it got set aside because now I was gonna go through the next 40 years of wilderness. And in that 40 years of wilderness being still involved in churches, different ones, and going through all this stuff, I began to see all the garbage that's in all the leaders, not all the leadership.

In some leadership, right? That you have all these religions and denominations and I began to, you go to the word and you say, what's the word say about religion? It's in James one that says, the only true religion is taking care of the widow and the orphan, and to keep your heart pure before the Lord.

That's the only true religion. Wait a minute. We grew up and there's Catholics and Baptists and Pentecostals and Lutherans and Presbyterians and charismatics and, and non-denominational. And non-denominational is a church too. It's, it's a, it's a religion. Okay. So, but none of 'em are, there's no such other, there's no other word for religion.

For true religion, except James. Keep your heart pure. Take care of the widow and the orphan. Well, how about denomination? And like you, I love, I dig into the Greek and the Hebrew all the time. I don't accept people go, oh, you have to, you have to read the King James version. And then nowadays some of us will accept the new King James version, baloney sandwich.

That's what I say is I have a 12-year-old daughter now. So, you know, BS is baloney sandwich. And if you know what BS means, well then, you know what I mean when I say baloney, single, right? So, you know, it's baloney. And it's like, well, you know, which version is right? I don't stop with any version. I actually study many, many versions, enjoy reading the differences.

And then every time I have a question, when something comes up, I dig into the Greek and the Hebrew. I love to dig in. What's that mean? What, what else could it have meant here? What was, what could the Lord have been, you know, trying to convey here that we just interpreted one way or you know? And, and, and there we come into the interpretation of men.

And when I say men, I throw men together with women women with men, because, and if you go in Christ, there's neither Jew nor Greek. There's neither free nor slave, and there's neither male nor female. So if you're in Christ, if we're yielded in the anointing. I'm not gonna get there into the mix. So if I say men, women don't be offended if I say women don't, men don't be offended.

It doesn't matter if, if, if we're that petty, we're not operating in Christ. So let's get back to operating in Christ. And so growing up and, and, and watching these dynamics of men fighting for power positions, and I'm telling you men love power. Leaders love power. It's an old saying from a British guy from the 18th century, I think it is.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think his name is Lord Acton. And I love the saying because people love power and, and they want to be the leaders and they want to be the, the people on top and telling however it goes. And, and. Have you ever thought for a moment, maybe it's not right that they want that, does it?

Maybe that the God of this world who, when he came to position in power in heaven, Lucifer, the most beautiful, all God's creations, the most powerful of all God's creations, he all of a sudden felt a little too powerful of himself. He was, you know, he was the guard, one of the garden sheriffs. He was higher than Michael and Gabriel.

He was, you know, he's kind of a boss, a big old boss figure, and the only one bigger was God. So he began to think maybe, maybe he's equal to God. Well, no matter how monstrous in power he is, I always, in one of my chapters, in my first book, I say, the devil's 50 feet tall. If we're normally five to six foot.

Goliath was nine to 10 foot, and the devil's like 50 feet tall. It gives an analogy of the power, but no matter what, he's finite, he's limited. And it, it got to his head, the ego, the pride, it got to his head that he was comparing himself to the infinite God who's not limited. And if you know, you know, geometry, you can have a a six foot line, a 10 foot line, a 50 foot line, but they're finite.

But if you have that line with the arrow on the top called Ray, it goes up forever. It's called infinity. Yeah. And that's God and God's power is infinite. But the devil, he powers over us. And if we treat him as anything with any less respect, that he's not the most powerful being that God let him be the rule of this earth.

We'll get our butts kicked. Okay. That's why we have to understand spiritual warfare. We have to understand how to walk with God. But when we're in Christ, and by the way, study as a chapter in my book, what Christ, you know, goes into more depth, but being in Christ is being in the anointing, and it says, if you are in Christ yielded, let that river of living water flow through.

It says, if you're in Christ, we're seated at the right hand of the Father in Christ. Right. Well, where's the father? He's an infinity. Right. Looking down on a 50 foot giant, who becomes an ant as that? If you were on a plane and you're going higher and higher and higher, a 50 foot tall building becomes an ant and eventually it's outta sight.

Well, that's just an airplane. How about a rocket that does goes up forever? Yeah. If we're seated in Christ, we're watching from God's perspective, where in Psalm 91 he says, we're hidden under his wing. And we watch all that evil go by. So we need to understand, and that didn't make us, we can't be smart enough, powerful enough, but we can learn to yield to God to get in Christ and therefore we can be raised into his position.

Now, we didn't. If we for the moment think we have power that it was us, then we're, we're fooled again. Right? It's a baloney sandwich. So the devil who got kicked outta heaven for ego, for power, power hungry, came to earth. He got to be ruler over this earth, okay? And I'll tell you, I believe the earth's a testing ground.

You. You know, it's like this is our chance as humans to determine who we will serve, who we will yield to, not just serve, who will we yield to? Who God wants to have a people that love him and that's who he wants to bring with him, you know, for eternity. And so, devil. He's just out here. He is. He's cause us mayhem.

He has limits of what he could do. God set those limits just like in job, right? We say, oh the devil, he can't get in our churches. He can't get in there. You know, we have Hollywood, and Hollywood shows us that if he walked into the church and someone held up the cross, he'd, he'd back up. Oh, Hollywood says if you touch the Bible, he'd burst into flames.

Well, the Hollywood is filled with demonic experience and, and all of that. So ironic, and I always like to say, I am sure you've said this yourself before. Satan knew the word of God. He quoted it to Christ. Absolutely. So, absolutely to think that he, that if he were to say the words of, you know Christ, he would burn up.

No, we biblically we have seen that he said the words just fine with, with, with a smirk. I, I assume so. I agree. And, and, and the beauty is he told the truth and he only threw one little tiny off in there. And that's what he loves to do to us. And you're absolutely right. He knows the word better than we do.

Take your best scholar who's ever lived, whoever you want to do today or from the past or the future to come, and you take this scholar and they will never be as smart as the devil. Knowing the word of God. The devil's this. First of all, the greatest being God ever created. He was in the presence of God.

He learned from God. And now in Job, we find out he walks right back into God's presence to talk to him about job. You know, if you'll let me touch him. He had gone to and fro around the world, he's a masochist, as it says, looking for someone to devour, going around like a roaring lion, right? Mm-hmm. So he's looking for someone to devour.

He comes back to God, Hey, I can touch all these other people and test their lives. Let me test Joe. You know, God gives him parameters. We have to understand God's in charge. He set the testing ground. The devil might think he's, I think the devil's not that stupid. I think he knows his time is limited. He rules this earth and he, as long as he can, is going as the greatest mass, as the greatest sadist that lives, wants to hurt us, right?

And take as many down to hell with him. With him and his, his fallen angels, the demons. So we think, oh, well, he couldn't be over the churches. Well, we're wrong if we think that, as you said, it's Hollywood, who, the devil created a bunch of the stories that go wrong with, so. Here's the thing in the Old Testament, right?

We go with Daniel praying for 21 days, and after 21 days, the messenger angel gets through, finally says, Hey, we heard you from the get go. But Michael and his warriors have been doing battle here. The princess, Syria, the Prince of Persia, rulers over kingdoms in the natural, but he wasn't talking about the King of Syria or the King of Persia.

He was talking about the demonic rulers that ruled over those kingdoms. So in the Old Testament, we can cognitively go, oh yeah, you know, he, they're rulers of kingdoms. Guess what he does in the New Testament says, we don't fight against princip. You know, we don't fight with flesh, you know, from flesh and blood, but against rulers and principalities and powers.

Guess what kingdoms he runs nowadays? It's called religions. It's called denominations. They all fight against each other, right? We do. We have a unified body of Christ. Can you show me the unified body of Christ? Hmm. I can't show you. Well, I'm going to, I'm gonna tell you a fun little play on words. First of all, studying the Greek of the Hebrew, there's no word in the Bible for denomination.

I like, I'll tell you a bunch of words that aren't in the Bible that we use all the time, but let's just go with denomination Doesn't exist. Religion, true religion. I told you it's in James one, right? But that's taking care of the widow of the orphan and our keeping our hearts pure. By the way, I'm not that smart, so you can catch me.

I'll be wrong. Walking with Papa of God just means I try to yield to him. I don't want to come across like I know it all 'cause I don't. I'm, I'm nothing more than that. Same as any believer who just yields their life and wants to walk with God. Love the Lord. And 55 years might sound like a lot, but when I compare myself to Enoch who walked 300 years with God, then I think I'm a nobody yet.

Yeah. So I'm still a baby learning. We are all learning. Okay. So don't let me come off to anybody thinking, oh, well, 55 years and you've got it all. Nope. You know, I look at Enoch, I got a long way to go. So, denomination, let's do a little play on words. Doesn't exist in the Bible. No such word in the Greek or the Hebrew denomination.

Let's take the first five letters, denomin and flip two letters, and it becomes demon. The next two letters are in, the next letter is a back up, two letters, and it says, nation demon in a nation. Now you know what denominations are? Demon rulers ruling over nations. The nations of Baptists. The nations of charismatics, the nations of Lutherans, the nations of Catholics, the nations of, you name it, every religion and these rulers are ruling over that.

They not only can step foot in the church, they're ruling over these churches. Now you go, oh my God. Does he not believe in anything? No. I believe in the body of Christ, as you stated in the beginning, we're all part of the body of Christ, and if we want to be part of a denomination, you're already subjecting yourself to a set of principles.

And this is in my second book, you know, Egypt in the church, the false belief systems that, you know, you say, well, belief systems aren't bad, are they? Well, let's find out if there's any good ones. Okay. Belief systems, by definition, are a set of constructs or constraints or thoughts that are put together that help define a people, help control a people, you know, right?

Set the boundaries for what these people do. So belief systems. The belief systems of a lot of these churches, religions, denominations. Maybe they began with truth, some from the Bible, right? But then we got men who began to give their definitions of what this means and what that means, and here's our constraints.

And I'm gonna tell you, those men were actually backed by the God of this world. We think, oh, well, if I'm a Christian, I can't hear from the devil. Oh, how wrong. Hmm. The old picture of the Devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other is more truth than fiction. If you've ever read Frank Pertti's books, this Present Darkness and piercing the Darkness, wonderful books back from the seventies and eighties, fiction books, but I believe God let Frank see what's true in the spiritual realm.

And it's, you know, you watch the humans who are living their normal life. And then the next paragraph is the demonic forces in the unseen realm right behind them that you can't see that are creating all the influence. Then the next paragraph's, the influence of all the angels doing the Lord's bidding.

We don't see the realm around us. We don't understand. There's another dimension around us that we can't see, and there's a spiritual battle and there are true angels and demons battling all the time around us, and we have no. No understanding, little understanding, and we need to gain more understanding.

And therefore, spiritual warfare is not just something you do, it's part of our daily life, which is part of our prayer life, which is supposed to be continuous, that we learn how to bind up and cut off evil, and we learn to loose the Holy Spirit and his good and the angels. So we begin to learn how to o operate and, and cooperate with God.

So you got all these churches, all these denominations, and they create Egypt in those churches. They go, Hey, we have created the constructs that defined who we are. And, and, and God forbid, someone's a Baptist and I offended you. Now as the Baptist, and by the way, there's lots. Groups within the Baptist, right?

So now all the groups are different. Well, then you got the Pentecostals, and then you've got the charismatics, and you've got the Lutherans and the Catholics and the Presbyterians. And, and we can look at someone and as from the Protestant side, can look at Catholics and go, well, that's obvious. You know, look at the, the worship of statues and look at, you know, the, the rote rituals and the little beads and look at all the, you know, praying to marry.

I mean, we can look at that and go, that's just obvious. We can look at Mormonism and their Book of Mormon from Joseph Smith getting all these great revelations beyond God's word himself and coming back. And we can look at that and go, that's an obvious cult. You know, it doesn't mean there aren't people who, there's some truth in there, and maybe there's some people who love the Lord, but.

So far gone. I mean, I've met Catholics, by the way, and don't let me say this wrong that love the Lord. Some are spirit filled good people, but is the belief systems are these false belief systems correct? And the answer's no. And well, you go, well, the, we would be surprised to find out that we coming from the more Protestant side of this world, have the exact same garbage in us.

We've created idols, we've created belief systems that go beyond the scripture. So that, and, and, and the leaders did this, maybe the beginning ones started from a good heart, right? They wanna protect their people. Good leaders want to protect their people. They are good leaders, good elders are called to be overseers protectors.

They're supposed to protect the sheet. We'll get off into the bad ones in a moment. But the prob, but the pro, they may have started from a good place, but then they went, oh, and the God of this world said, you know what? Whisper, whisper. Hey, you know, if you don't figure out a way to contain the sheep, like the sheep we're dumb, will never grow up.

Okay? There's a misconception right there. And you know, but if you don't come up with constraints, if you don't set the boundaries, then you're gonna have a bunch of crazy haywire. Have you ever watched those crazy haywire? I mean, this is his voices. You know, didn't you see some of those weird people?

They're, we are weird people. They're in the midst of all the great stuff that was in the charismatic move. There were some people way off the wall. When you touch the things of the spirit and you open yourself up and find out the spiritual things are real, there are people who go crazy. They'll go AWOL because they're not always yielding to the spirit of God.

The spirit of God won't make 'em go crazy. But if they open themselves up to the spiritual realm, and especially if the devil can get in there with his demonic forces and go, Hey, wouldn't you like to have this power? Wouldn't you like to have these gifts and use these gifts? And maybe everybody will see you.

And even though you've never had a good picture of self-esteem of yourself, even though you have all these problems internally, psychologically, all of a sudden you can be this, you know, religious power and people will come to you. And what did Jesus say? Beware of the false Christ that will create false prophets that will show signs and wonders that will deceive even the elect.

Yeah. Well if Christ is the anointing, then a false Christ is a false anointing. It's not somebody walking around going, I. You know, people going, Hey, I'm Jesus Christ. I came back. I'm Jesus Christ. Guess what? Most people, most believers are gonna go dingling. You know, you know, you know, you're, you're deceived.

Nobody's gonna fall for that. But if you come with false anointings and the power of the demonic force behind it, that can fool the elect. When Jesus was casting out demons, do you remember the chief priests and the Jews going, Hey, he does that by beals above the Prince of Demons. Do you ever wonder why in the heck they said that, that Jesus really did cast out demons?

Yeah. He not only did it, I've watched many of 'em happen through many years. His power still works. So why in the heck would the priests and the Jews say he does it by beals above? Because they knew the truth. And that is that the devil can make himself look good and he can come up to people who are demon possessed or need healing.

And that those possessions or those healings are caused by demons being inside. You know, when we think like some healing, some, some sicknesses are demonic oppression. When Jesus had that woman who had had that blood flow for 18 years, right? And he comes up to her and he says, and, and normally if he was casting out a demon, the demons would fall at him and he'd say, shh.

And then he'd tell him to go right with this woman. He didn't talk to the demon, he just touched her. It said, and then all of a sudden she was healed from the sickness she had had for 18 years. Well, because when he touched her, it broke the oppression. Of the demon that was oppressing her, so he didn't have to kick it out, he just touched her and that he got in the middle and that broke that bond.

So the, the Jews, the chief priests knew that the devil can call out to his demons and say I need you to come out for show and tell. Yeah. So here's a demon possessed person. Here's a sick person. Okay, thrash around. I want you to make a big old show for me. And then the person who's my false prophet speaking forth, member prophet, speak forth.

So if you're speaking forth from God, or you speak forth from the false Christ, from the false anointings, from the God of this world, right? So a prophet is someone who speaks forth and they speak forth, you know, come out of that person and the de and they thrash around and it leaves and or be healed and they're healed.

And you go, oh my God. So the chief priests knew the power of the demonic force is. He can mimic and mock, and you go, well, the now how in the heck do I know what's real and what's not right in the churches? And there's, there's a true answer that we can know this, we can't know it by our eyes. If we look with our eyes and our, our, just our ears, our natural senses.

And if we are get fooled in our spiritual senses, we might go, oh, this is the power of God. Okay? And it could be the power of the devil of his power. So how do we know? Well, we know because we have the fullness of the Godhead in us. And if we yield, we let that flow and that flowing from the inside out will give us his love and his peace.

Philippians four, seven. That passes understanding. The devil can mock gifts. He can mock every gift. That is around. He can mock everything. He can say the right words. You can have false prophets and false apostles and false evangelists, false teachers and false pastors. You can have false leaders. How do you know the difference?

By the spirit of God in us? He gave us the answer. It lives in us, and if we learn to yield and let it to come float forward and the peace of God that passes understanding, that's the one thing the devil can never recreate. He can give us a piece. I can get a piece and you can get a piece. We eat a Thanksgiving meal and we're sitting around all full and satisfied.

You can have a peace. You can have a peace if you meditate or pray. You can have a peace if they, if your kids are quiet, you know, if your wife and, and you are getting along, you can have a peace. You know, if you're good with your neighbors. But a peace is not the peace. Right. And we have to know the peace of God that passes understanding.

So dealing with these leaders, that's how I learned by 40 years in the wilderness of being drawn out of leadership positions, being drawn out of these churches. And I was going to non-denominational churches, right? It wasn't So you think, well, non-denominational is safe. No, no. Every group has to be seen for, do we have, are we trying to live to a false belief system?

I define it in much more detail in my second book, but you know, are we entra entrenched in parameters that men have created that their demon rulers ruling over them? Demons over nations are ruling over those men. Have created the constraints, the boxes that we live in, and if those boxes, I, you know, I understand the, the view of safety.

Okay? Every good leader called as a shepherd, called as an elder, called as a pastor, is originally called. There are many good scriptures for good leaders who are to protect the sheep, but we sit here and go, okay, so we're gonna be sheep forever, right? Unless we get raised to leadership, well, guess what? We have the whole picture upside down.

We've had it wrong from the get go. The god of this world ruled it. My first book defines the pyramid, and in the church you've got the fivefold ministry at the top. The apostle prophet evangelist's pastor, teacher, that's called the fivefold ministry. They're at the top, they're the, the bigwigs got the power.

They're the leaders who, and everybody wants to be one of them. Right. I mean there, there's, there's something inside us that wants to reach up to become one of those leaders. No, maybe not everybody, but those who want to serve in the church, serve God's people. Then there's a place where we want to achieve to that place below them.

The next level down is the elders. The next level down is the deacons, and at the bottom are the rest of us. The sheep, the peons, the saints, the plain old. Well, we're just nothing bodies, but we're, we're down here, we're the sheep. 'cause sheep are dumb, right? Well, guess what? That's the picture of power. Men love power, and that's the picture of power that we have created, especially the Western world Christianity entity.

The problem is, is it The pyramid is wrong, it's upside down. The pyramid's actually supposed to be this way. And the apostle prophet evangels pastor teacher are at the bottom of the bottom. Jesus said, I came to be ser. I came to serve not to be served. Jesus said The least will be the greatest. And the greatest are to be least.

Oh apostles the greatest. No, it used to be the bottom of the bottom of the bottom of the bottom. Oops. That's gonna mess up somebody's plan. But I, I wanted to, I wanted to be an apostle and a prophet and go evangelize the world. I wanna be a pastor or teacher. Guess what? You get to be at the bottom, the bottom of the bottom of the bottom, the next level ups, the elders who are there to oversee and to help and to help guide not to throw human parameters around the word of God.

Then come the deacons who serve, and then at the top of this pyramid are us the dumb sheep. The plain old peons. We're at the top. You know why? Because we're the ones. If you read Ephesians five, where we are to be equipped, Ephesians four or five. See, I'm, I'm not as smart as I used to be. When I was young, I was smart.

Now, I'm not so smart. Don't have perfect recall, but it says God gave us apostles, the prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to equip the saints to release us for the work of service. And it says, until, until we achieve that place in Christ, Jesus said the master, he said the the son of the master.

Serves in the house equal to the slave and the overseer of the house watches that child and that child is treated even though the child's the heir to the house. No different than the slave in the house and for a number of years because the overseer's job is to train them because someday they will become the heir over the, and ruling the house and see what the power players don't want you to know is their jobs in until ministry, it's totally opposite of power because those at the bottom of the bottom have to tr impart what God's put into them to then impart into us because we are to go out and do the work of the ministry.

You wanna evangelize the world, okay? You don't need evangelists just running out into countries or love Billy Graham and Billy Sunday and lots of other people, and. Great. You know, wonderful. But that's, that's not the evangelist, that the true evangelist is. Us going out to work and going into our jobs and going amongst our FA family and sharing the love of God amongst our family.

Then go out to work and be there working with people when they can see when they're going through their traumatic parts of life and they see Christ in us, the hope of glory. And they go, why are you different? And in that moment, that's when they can receive, right? We're all supposed to be doing that function.

So the sheep are at the top, the greatest are the least, and the least are at the greatest. And so this whole power structure has been so wrong. Okay. And even amongst the power structure, I. The apostles think they're at the top, then they, the prophets think they're next. Then the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, and it's so upside down.

People love power, who loves power, who, what God of this world stood up, thought he had power to the face of God himself and got kicked out. So now he's down here going, ruling over kingdoms going, Hey, do you love power? I love power. Ooh, everybody would just follow you if you, you know, you may not have, you know, we all come from poor mental condition, poor body image, poor, you know, mental views of ourselves, right?

We all have these insecurities. And when a voice comes along and says, you could be this apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor t you could be a leader. You can have the gifts of God, I love the gifts of God, but let's not, let's not worship gifts and let's not call people who have gifts special. Just because someone got a gift of healing or got a gift of word of knowledge or wisdom or discerning of spirits doesn't make them special because it says the spirit gives gifts to all believers.

Well, what if believers mess up, misuse it? Well, Romans 1129 says The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. You ever thought about what that word means? Irrevocable. Why would he say such a negative way that's like forsake not the assembling of the brethren? Very negative terms. Why would you say forsake not?

You mean like maybe it should be forsaken sometimes if it was based on human ability or how humans yield to the wrong spirits that rule in these kingdoms. That Maybe it's fors foreseeable. Yeah, we'd want to, but he's saying don't forsake it. Find true believers that, you know, operate together the gifts and the calling of God.

Are I revocable? Does that mean they should be revoked sometimes? Yeah. If it had to do with us, which it does, right? 'cause he's flowing through, IM impure vessels, then those gifts should be revoked. Those calling should be revoked. But God says they're not revocable. He made 'em permanent. And you go, well, God, that's kind of screwed up.

Well, he doesn't take it away. So it's up to us to either yield to him and let the true power of God by his spirit flow through us to change Christ in us, to flow through, to change us and change our lives around us and our families and the world. Or. We can yield to the wrong source. I'll back off. Give you a chance to, if you have some questions since I just, you have to reel me in sometimes I can get off and talk a lot.

For sure. I wanna share a quote that backs up a lot of what you were saying, which is one most people know John 1427, peace I leave with you. My peace I give you, I do not give to you as the world gives. And a lot of Catholic churches will say a peace as I give, not as the world gives. And like you said, it's a different kind of peace and understanding that is so important.

And so I know Joseph friends was doing a sermon on making spirit led decisions and people were like, well, how do I know if something I'm choosing is aligned with God and his spirit? And his, his word was peace. A different peace than when you're making those decisions that are of the world. And going back to Satan, knowing the word and saying, and being able to go into churches and to being in a lot of media.

Here's the thing that I'll give a real life example from my time in the military and we jokingly called the UCMJ, the military Bible because it's this huge book. It's got every rule and every way you can get in trouble. And there's a lot of rules in the military in a lot of ways to get in trouble.

And the people who knew it the most, two types of people, one the people who had been in for 20 years and they're high up, right? That's given the people who want to get away with the most, who want to bend the rules the most, the most troublesome sailors you knew. They could quote every rule to make sure they could get away with whatever it was.

So the people who wanted to get away with the most, follow the rules, the least they knew them better than anyone who was a good sailor. I think in the same way, you know, Satan knows the word because he wants to bend it as far as you can and to convince you to stretch it as far as you can. So I think it's important to know that, you know, criminals probably know the laws better than we do, you know, good lord, lawyers know them well, but a lot of times some lawyers are helping criminals get off, right?

Right. So it's how far can we bend the rules? How far can we twist something to be justified? And so I think the same applies to the Bible. And in addition, I want to talk about, you spoke on, I'll call it condemnation or calling out, is, you know how Baptist could look at Catholics and say, well, we're not like them because we don't do X, Y, Z, or Presbyterian and all this stuff, right?

Mm-hmm. And I think it's so interesting because it's very true. Every denomination is very condemning toward one another, or believers are very judgmental towards one another. Now, I'll give an example from my life. Recently, this past year, people were saying, Mr. Whiskey. How, how, how despicable how you eat meat on Fridays during the Lent period.

You don't follow Lent, but you follow a kosher diet. How can you follow a kosher diet but not lent? And I said, name, name one spot in the Bible where it tells me to follow Lent or where it says not to eat meat on Friday. I said, I'll tell you what Jesus did do. He followed a kosher diet. There's no record of him eating anything unclean.

And he was born and raised Jewish, even though obviously he's different than us. And I said he celebrated Passover. Never once does Jesus say, I'm gonna celebrate Lent and, and, and my followers. I want you to follow Lent and not eat me on Fridays. Right. So I think it's so interesting that people will, you know, point fingers at you for one thing and not the other pointing fingers at me saying, it's so strange.

You follow what is in the Bible, but not what's not in the Bible. To me that's just ironic. But it's very true, you know, and I'm sure there's plenty of Jehovah witnesses could say, how, how could you have saying worship or, you know, pray to the saints or. Marry and, and basically say, oh, Catholicism is a cult, or this and that.

And then meanwhile they've got plenty going on on their end. You know, it's kind of like a very pick and choose a as it always is with people who are both believers and non-believers as well. Mm-hmm. You know, and sometimes going back to it, sometimes non-believers or atheists know the Bible more than believers to use it as much as they can to justify their points.

I've met plenty of atheists who know the, who have read the Bible end to end. In fact, I know more atheists who have read the Bible end to end than I do believers who have read it end to end. And it's, it's a very sad, but I think, like you said, yeah, there's a lot of demonic principles behind things and what, what the devil will always do is make it seem right.

Right. You and, and feel you with this good feeling like, I, I'm, I'm doing right. What I'm doing is is for Christ. But unfortunately, sometimes it's not. Now you mentioned both of your books and I know you got more coming out. The daily stand and then set the catches free. And then I know on the bottom of your website you've got a whole, you know, catalog of books coming out.

So we're gonna have your website and a description below to, you know, have everyone be able to look at those. Just real quick though, who should read your books? You know, is this for believers, nonbelievers? Do you think anyone? And, and really, do they answer the question I want to ask you? Which is, now that we know from this episode the truth about denominations and we've kind of taken a step back and looked at everything, what do we do?

Do we just quit our church and call it a day? Or we want to have a community of faith? What can we do now with this knowledge? Okay. Lot of good things you said. Love all the good parts of it, and especially the part of knowing the word, but yes, the devil knows it better than we do, so we can't ever go toe to toe with him just on the word.

That's why we have to have the peace of God that passes understanding. We have to know the word and the peace. Amen. He can't fake the, the peace. The peace that passes understanding. In my first book, there's a great story about a lady who was a believer who became a Mormon because she got peace when she was fasting and God told her to become a mo Mormon.

Well guess which God was speaking to her. The one with the big G or the one with the little G that told her to leave her family, go out to Salt Lake City, become a Mormon. And after that she had peace. She blew up her family and she was a believer and she walked away. So the peace, the passes, understanding, that's what guards our hearts and minds.

That's what confirms the word I. Because we can't go just by the word. The books are basically written for believers, and yet I love unbelievers to read them because I, I want them to be challenged. Maybe someone might hear that something in there that touches some part of their heart, some part of their growing up, some part of, you know, if you read the first one and the second one, the second one, set the captives free.

And talks about all the indoctrinations that have been put into us, not just in, only in the church, but in our whole mental psyche growing up. Yeah. If you have the ruler of this world, who's ruled it from the get go, from the time, by the time Adam was born to the time every one of us was born, that he's been the ruler of this world.

He's taught us to run. The maze of life as mice, and he will ding a bell and will react away. He'll buzz, a buzzer will react another way. He'll put a little piece of cheese out and we'll just do what he wants. This is what the Bible calls the old man, the old self, the flesh. This is what we are. We are built with all of that garbage in us.

And we were trained by the rule of this world, and that's why we're in the process for as many years as we're on this earth, the process called sanctification to create Christ in us. Now he's in us, right? But he's not flowing through our whole being. He's deep down inside, right? In our spirit, we're the ones that get out of the, we're the ones that get in the way.

And we've got all these false belief systems that have been built into us from the world, the devil, the churches, and. All that stuff gets is garbage. It's in the way and it has to be sanctified. That's the new self being formed in us. You know, anybody says I was saved and sanctified the day I asked the Lord in my life.

Well, you were saved. You weren't sanctified. Sanctification is a lifelong process. That's what this testing ground's about. So the second book will de de deep dive into all these false belief systems, all of the wrong ways of thinking. And to set the captives free doesn't mean you have to leave all the churches.

You do have to leave your religion and denominations behind. If you are going to say, well, I'll defend my denomination forever till I die, then you'll talk, then you'll be part of what I talk about in the very beginning called the Stockholm Syndrome. It's the religious Stockholm Syndrome. And we've been Egypt captured in the church.

We've got Egypt in the church, and we're all there. And we, we, we were enslaved, you know, by the Egyptians. Maybe it started off right with Joseph Gamming there, and then all the Israel came and eventually they became oppressed and the slaves, right? And the whole thing over and over 400 years until they were so oppressed and they were praying for God to set him free.

Right? They wanted God to be set free from all these oppressors. But when Moses came in to set him free and took 'em out, we know all the plagues and the things that happened. We talk about in the first book and or the second book on Egypt. And when they got out in the wilderness, they were all of a sudden began griping and complaining just at least in Egypt, we had fish on.

You know, they, they complained about everything. Have you brought us out here? Only to die of thirst. Thirst and hunger. They said, and I love this, we sat by pots of meat. We might've been slaves, but we sat by pots of meat and we had plenty of bread to eat. And so Stockholm Syndrome, it's like, Hey, we, we thought we wanted to be free, but don't take us out of here because when you take me out of Egypt, all of a sudden I want to go back.

So there is a wilderness in all of our lives where we have to be broken, and that wilderness is a spiritual place. I coexisted in churches and with believers going through my 40 years of wilderness, and I, I call it 40 years. I'm pretty sure it was a literal 40 years. I don't wish that on anybody. But you know, we have to have a time where we come out of all the systems that we, and our false beliefs that were ingrained in us by, and I'm, I'm in what you would think would be, well, the charismatic offshoots and the non-denominational, and we're not buying into.

Got a bug liner, you know, we're not buying into all the denominations garbage. Well, guess what? The rule of this world still is working. And some of these places still had people who loved power and they wanted to be the apostles on top. I worked right underneath apostles helping them, you know, being an input into their lives, but they were the people at the top.

You'll read in the book where I was called a heretic twice because I stood up to 'em eventually, you know, and then they kick you out because they can't have anybody who will challenge a power structure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now every believer, the least amongst us, right? The youngest babe has a right to challenge the power structure.

Mm-hmm. That doesn't mean they're right when they challenge it, but they have a right to do that. To say, is this really the way God wants it? Let's go back and study the scriptures. Let's, let's compare. Yeah. We talked about this on the show once before with Captain Russell Roberts when he was a small child.

You know, the Jehovah Witnesses found his family in Alaska. Yes. They, they go to Alaska even. And his father got super into, into the deep end of it. And I remember Captain Roberts was talking on my show about how he would say, well, he would challenge them. And you know what they said to him, Mr. Snow, you are too smart to learn.

You asked too many questions. Just everyone, I want everyone to think about that You're too smart to learn and you ask too many questions because he would say, but the word right here says mm-hmm. But we say, you know. Mm-hmm. You're too smart to learn. What I hear is. You're too smart to be brainwashed, you know?

Mm-hmm. To be constrained into this box. And that's not just Jehovah Witnesses, right? That's like where you said being called a heretic, I'm sure. Basically the same thing. Right? If they, if even more powerful way of saying you're too smart is saying you're a heretic to, to flip the table on you and now outcast you.

So it's yeah. It's something that happens across the world to a lot of people, unfortunately. And like I said, I've been called many names and, and outcasted in my own journey of faith. I think, I think fake Hebrew and, and foster j are probably the, the biggest two that I get called. And you know, that's, that's interesting.

You know, I sure people, as a Jew, as a true Jew, I welcome you because you know what? Physical Israel, God loves physical Israel, but he loves spiritual Israel more. And you, my brother or spiritual Israel. So forget whether you're physical Israel that has, yeah. You know, physical Israel doesn't mean all those people walking in the earth who call themselves Jews, love God, let alone have a walk with him, right?

We know they don't 'cause they're not walking through the Messiah, let alone Christ in them flowing. So as much as God loves physical Israel, he loves spiritual Israel more those who are his people who come to him in spirit and in truth. So I welcome you in, in the community of Jews as the correct kind of Jew, which is spiritual Israel.

Amen. Thank you. I appreciate the warm welcome. It's well received after many not so nice welcomes. And, but like, like I said, I, you know, what the Bible says is, is what the Bible says. So I'm excited for, you know, people to check out your books and I know you've got a lot more. Coming out and how I always like to end my episodes that are faith-based is if you could share one Bible quote with us, you know, on the spot in your heart right now, what would that be?

Well, I, I comes back to Philippians four, seven right now. I knew you were gonna say that. Peace of God. Yeah. It's like I, there's a lot of verses I love be still and know that I'm God I love a lot of things, but Yeah. But let the peace of God, the peace rule in your hearts and your minds and it'll guard you.

And if you know that one thing, if you study the word and you let the peace, and the only way you can do have the peace is by allowing Christ in us, the fullness of the Godhead to begin to flow forward. And if we ever began to understand what the fullness of the Godhead means, like we accept that God spoke the world into being in six days.

Those of us who are believers, there's a bunch of people go, nah, that took 6,000 years or took evolution, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, I believe he said it in six days and he did it. Well, they'll, they'll call me stupid. I don't care. I just take the word of God. When the word of God says that he holds the world together by the word of his mouth and they go, Uhhuh, sure, whatever.

Well, when I got saved and I was in this crazy spiritual weirdo mode, I was like, okay, God, I got saved. I got healed. I'm gonna go serve the world. Okay, where do you need me to go? You need me to go evangelize the world? You want me to go do this? You wanna me go do that? I'll go, I'll go anywhere. I'll do anything you want, you know?

No, no questions. And the Lord says, go to college. I went, no, no, you didn't hear me. Let me repeat myself. I'll do anything you want. I'll go anywhere you want. I'll do anything. Go to college. I. I said, you're not listening. That's what my father wants. My earthly father, you know? Yeah. But he wanted me to go to college and I became an electrical engineer, and I became a computer scientist.

And I ran my own company for 45 years. And I love math and science. And here's the thing, science is cool. Not the part where you theorize craziness, but when you can see the facts. Because if God made the world, he made science right? Yeah. The truth of science, not the theoretical, crazy. I mean, you know, let's not go off.

I don't worship science. I worship the Lord, but he made the creation and I enjoy looking at his creation. That's pretty cool. Well, in my first book, one of the chapters where I say God could do anything, I discuss atomic structure and by the structure of the atom, I will prove to you by science. That God holds everything together by the word of his mouth.

And if he didn't, every atom would disperse and would burst back and every atom would break and it would become one electron and one proton hovering all over the place. And what's one electron in one proton? Hydrogen gas. And then even the scientists today say that before the world happened, before the Big bang happened, it was all hydrogen gas floating around out there and there was a bunch of hydrogen gas.

And God said to that gas, let there be the earth and the heavens above. And it happened. And then he said, let there be. Animals all across the earth and let there be the, the waters swimming with fish. And he let there be the span of the light, you know, of the heavens and let there be. And he said that numerous times.

And in the moment he did it, that was the Big Bang. It was a big bang theory. He said it, it happened. Read the atomic structure for anybody who would like to get the first book. And you will see, I will prove it by science, God created science and it's right there in the atomic structure that makes up everything we are.

And if God didn't hold us together, we'd all go back to hydrogen gas in a second. So the books are there. They're manually meant for believers. The first book, spiritual warfare manual, but it's really how to walk with God and have your heart right. How not to be religious. If you have a religious spirit, you won't like it.

'cause I'm way too honest because God broke me of my reli, religiosity. Read chapter two where I cuss God out and you'll understand that how gracious he is and how I, he had to break me of my religiosity. Okay? Because everything came to a, to a level. All hell was breaking loose in my family and my life and my work and my health and everything.

And God brought me to an end to myself. Dunno if I should tell you the whole story, but I, I was, I was being, you know, I was trying to be too, I was trying to walk with God by my strength, not his strength flowing through me. And so I'm trying to hold all these things together and be this good Christian.

Well, the world was falling apart around me and all hell was breaking loose. And I, I'd had it. And one night I, I was working crazy hours. I used to work. From nine in the morning till 2:00 AM Monday through Saturday with Bell Labs as an engineer. And I was walking out into the parking lot one night and I was talking to God like normal.

And this time I'd had it. And all of a sudden it was just like, I, you know, I'm not gonna sweet talk you. I'm madder than crap. And I got so angry at the God that loved me, who healed me, who saved me, who showed me all these wonderful things. But I was going through hell my hell that moment. And I began to cuss him out and I ranted and raved against him, railed against him for probably, I don't know, 10 minutes nonstop.

10 15 minutes railing against him, cussing him out with words. I forgot. I knew words I didn't even know. I knew like baloney scenes called him. Huh Bo Bologna sandwich Beyond Wave made a bologna sandwich. Seemed like a really nice word. Okay. Yeah. Really nice. You imagine the worst of the worst of the worst.

And that was me. And I was cussing him out and I'm like, I'm like, I know at the end of this rant, you're gonna strike me dead with lightning, so therefore I'm gonna let it all out. I feel like you've let me go to hell and back. Everything's gone to hell. This is all, it's all your fault. You know? And I was so angry, and I was like, and I ranted.

I ranted, I ranted. And at the end of that 10 or 15 minutes, exhausted, waiting for lightning to strike. I knew I deserved it. I was a rotten acting person. And the Lord said, are you done yet? That pissed me off. Yo hit me with lightning. I'm like, done yet. So I started another rant and I ran it rave for another 10, 15 minutes at him.

Like, are you kidding me? Am I done yet? At the end of that time, I was so exhausted I couldn't have said another word. I just stood there. I just like, I'm ready. Wipe me off the face of the earth. I'm, if they had cameras on this parking lot, they probably wondered who this crazy guy was waving his arms and renting and raving to the, to nothing that anybody could see for who knows how long.

And at the end of that time, exhausted just, okay, I'm ready. I deserve it. Wipe me off the face of the earth. And all I felt was the absolute love of the father. He surrounded me in his love. The same love that I felt, you know, I. When we yield to him the same love when he had audibly spoke to me and I said, why?

Why don't you kill me? I deserve it. I'm so rotten. He said, because I love you. I said, yeah, but I just said the worst things to you. I've never said to anybody in my life. I've never said this much to anybody in my worst days. He says, yeah, so, but you don't understand. I deserve to be wiped out. He says, no. I said, but what was it?

He goes, he says, I already knew what was in your heart. I just wanted you to fight doubt.

He wanted me to see my, my uglies, my bad, and uglies. And from that day forward, I lost my religiosity. I lost fake spirituality. I don't have to be fake with the true and living God. He's not offended by a cuss word, if that's what's in my heart. He already knew it. You know? He already knew. He already knows He wants us the good, the bad, and the ugly, and he doesn't care.

He wants us. And to walk with the true and living God every day is an absolute wonderful privilege. Well, am I gonna have days where I'm just a real screw up? Absolutely. I'm a screw up. I'm nobody perfect. I am like just someone who loves him. I screw up and he go and I go, Hey, I did it again. He goes, yeah, okay, I'm sorry.

He goes, okay, no problem. Like we go. Yeah, we promised God I'll never do that again. Baloney. Get off that train. Well, yeah, by sinned. Oh my God. I fell back and I did something that I used to do and that's so awful. And oh, God will never love me. You think he didn't know what was in your heart. You think he didn't know the devil?

The rule of this world who tempts you all the time to go back and fall to do this stuff? You think he's unaware? He says he has every hair on our head numbered. That means when you comb it and you throw some away, he knows the numbers are the ones you throw away. That's how intimate, how deep, how relational he is to us and all we have to is yield to be that to him.

But I screw up. Yeah, I do. So what? I'm sorry, Papa. I screw it up again. He goes, okay, let's move on. He doesn't sit there and go, oh penance. Oh, let's go do you know some Hail Marys, you know, whatever. There's, it's not that way. He's the true and living father, A true and living God. He wants us to walk with him.

He wants us to be like our big brother, Jesus, who said, I only do what I see the Father doing. I only say what I hear the father saying. There's so many deep truths in that. That's the truth He wants us to learn. The first book covers that in depth what real faith, true faith is in walking with him in the most intimate way.

The second book set the captives free is because we've all been in our minds, have been so screwed up before we met him. After we've met him in the churches, out of the churches. He wants to set us free. He wants his people to be set free, and the wilderness process is nothing to be feared. It's actually his love to us to purify us.

So you don't have to run from every church. You eventually, he'll plug you in with the right believers. You don't have to be afraid of that. If he has every hair numbered on your head, by the way, as you get older, you get fewer. But you know, it's, he's that intimate. No Sparrow falls that he doesn't know.

There's a good story in the first book about the hairs on the head. Say the first book's full of many stories as lot of the power of God, the time that just like when Jesus told the storm to be still, that we saw the storms stopped. We saw tornadoes that came to the church and people who weren't there watched it on tv.

As the tornado came to the edge of the parking lot of the church to destroy the church, we're hearing roaring train the thunder while we're in there worshiping and people at home saw this tornado come stop, lift straight up vertical at a dead stop higher than the top of the steep of the church. Then slowly move over to the church.

When it got to the other side, stopped dead, slowly descended back to earth on the other side of the parking lot and went on and there was destruction on all sides. But not in the church. We heard roaring thunder. When you walk with the power of God, the true and living God, when you see demons that get dealt with the same way Jesus did, we can have all that because that's the power of God.

Is it The power of Tom? Tom? Ain't that smart? You're not that smart. None of us are that smart. But if we yield to the God who is that smart, then we have that power. I don't want to go too long. You might be, have a limit of what you gotta do. I can talk forever. Hmm. Yes, sir. Well, I mean, it's because you're passionate about your, your work that God is doing through you and you know the truth.

So I, I love and appreciate that and I thank you for your time today. I think you know, for anyone who wants to learn more, they've got your website with your books or they can connect with you. I know you're more than glad to talk to anyone about this and hopefully, you know, help spread awareness and make an impact.

And I appreciate your time today to do so. Thank you for having me.