No Pain No GAINES: Perseverance, Relentless Setbacks, And Rebuilding Your Life

Today, I sit down with Robert Gaines, an Army veteran, entrepreneur, and author who has lived through some of the most unpredictable twists life can deliver. 

Mr. Gaines shares a timeline that almost sounds fictional — a recording studio burglary that ended his first major venture, the dot-com crash derailing his career path, 9/11 destroying a thriving restaurant launch, and the housing crisis shutting down his art gallery. Through each of these events, he developed a philosophy built on perseverance, adaptation, and rebuilding when life doesn’t go as planned. 

As we move deeper into the conversation, Mr. Gaines opens up about growing up in an alcoholic household, his early struggles with drinking, and the reality of blackouts by age fifteen. He breaks down how sobriety reshaped his entire life — not only removing alcohol but forcing him into radical self-accountability. We explore how his military career shifted from nuclear-capable artillery to radiology, and how he navigated the difficult transition into the civilian world while learning hard lessons about leadership, employment, and entrepreneurship. 

I also speak with Mr. Gaines about his journey into the insurance industry, storm work, fraud investigation, and how the rise of AI is changing the future of traditional jobs. From there, we explore his passion for podcasting, content creation, and writing — including the development of his book Scintilla, a guide that helps people generate business ideas from scratch. He breaks down why most aspiring entrepreneurs struggle, why the first idea is rarely the best, and why community, mentorship, and alignment matter more than ever. 

In this episode, Mr. Gaines shares life lessons forged by failure, recovery, reinvention, and the continuous pursuit of improvement. His insights on networking, humility, and building a supportive network of “battle buddies” are powerful reminders that success is rarely a solo mission. This episode is a resource for anyone facing setbacks, rebuilding their life, or searching for clarity in the middle of uncertainty. 

https://freetimemastermind.com/

Website: https://coupleonukes.com

Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Nulu Knives: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

Want to be a guest on Couple O' Nukes? Send me a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726279485588093e83e0e007

Sign Up For A PodMatch Account: https://www.joinpodmatch.com/coupleonukes

*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and my first question isn't to your guest, but actually to you listening. Do you ever feel like every time you try to start something, you're passionate, you've, you've planned it all out, you launch it, and then the world just shuts down or decides to do something that will completely ruin your idea?

Today we're gonna get into a man who, as I was reading through his bio, every time he tried to do something, it seemed like the world said no. And so we're gonna be talking about perseverance, resilience, and most importantly, when things don't go as planned. And that's part of the subtitle of the show, rebuilding Our Dreams, because sometimes our initial dream gets skewed by something in the world.

How do we rebuild? How do we take what we try to start? Make it something new that can survive this new environment. Life is about adaptation. So we're gonna get into that today with our guest here. Mr. Robert Gaines, I've hinted at some of your story. I'd love for you to introduce yourself for us. Thank you Mr.

Whiskey. I appreciate you having me on. I'm Robert Gaines, I'm a army veteran and, um, business school. Graduated at University of Louisville. I went way late. I waited until after I got out of the military to go through the GI bill to go to, uh, U of L. And as far as businesses, I always say I've been jumping outta burning buildings my whole life and, uh, my luck is so bad.

That in some cases that, that actually, in the family, we call it the gains effect. So when I go into something, you know, there's all of these cataclysms and, and it's funny now, it wasn't funny 10 years ago, but I think it's funny now because, um, because of all of that negative experience, I've learned some really incredible things.

And failure is a much better teacher than success. I'm also a fellow podcaster, and last year I wrote my first book, Illa, which is about how to come up with business ideas. And I'm currently writing my follow up book, which is about LinkedIn and networking. So that's me in a nutshell, right? And with your luck, you're gonna publish this second book about LinkedIn, and then LinkedIn is gonna revamp all their algorithms, redesign their whole template and just change everything.

It might even be more serious than that. The whole grid might go down. It could be, yes. There's a lot going on. So I don't play, I don't play small man. I shut down entire networks and industries when I get involved. Right, right. They're about to go bankrupt as soon as you publish your book. But no, I, I want to get into just a linear timeline.

You know, I read it online, but I'd love for you to share with us, like you said, looking back, that 30,000 foot overview is like, what? It's just comical because it's like, what are the chances that every single time it was followed by that it, it almost seems like you, you couldn't make it up, you know, it doesn't seem planned.

People didn't believe it. People didn't believe it, didn't want to believe it. And then when they started to believe it and no joke, people started to disassociate from me because they thought I had some kind of curse. And that's why they called it the Gaines Effect and that, and people, and that maybe there's a book down the road about that, but.

It got to the point where people didn't want to be around me 'cause they thought something was following me. It was that crazy. And this isn't in my bio, so I'll, I'll start right at the end of my military career. I was at year eight. A lot of people stay in longer after that and I decided not to. They gave me the option to go to Tripler, which was in Hawaii.

It's usually a great deployment. I turned it down because I had just started a recording studio and, um, was networking and bringing bands in and I was really enjoying it. 'cause I love being around, uh, creatives. I'm not that creative, but I always like to be around artists. It, it just, it fuels me and I like to work with them and help them monetize their art.

So that was really rocking. It was really going well. And, uh, although it wasn't technically an official business, I could see the, the potential for it. Well, I come home one day and all my equipment's gone. This was in my house. I had a whole separate room for the studio and completely burglarized. Uh, no I didn't have an alarm system.

I was 25. You gotta realize that, you know, how smart were we at 25? Not very. Um, they broke in. And what I learned about that, just to make this very, very short, is I, up until that point, I honestly thought the police were there to solve crimes. I thought they, they were gonna do some legwork and help me get my equipment back.

Uh, they did absolutely nothing. They actually told me to stop calling 'cause I, I would have tips and different and they said, this isn't a murder investigation buddy. We're not gonna do anything. And I was, I was blown away. And then my own insurance company investigated me. Which was even stranger because, you know, this was the lowest point in my life.

I had signed a declination statement. So for people not in the military that don't know, I basically said, this is my last enlistment. I'm not going any further because I had this great thing going on in my life. So in about 90 to 120 days, I went from being an E five in the Army. Um, married, had a house recording studio to, uh, having a trash bag full of clothes and a truck payment in 120.

And it wasn't drugs, it wasn't, you know, that burglary just detonated everything. The timing could, could not have been more awful. And, um, people don't talk about the mental health part of it, but I was in, um, I was in like a zombie. Phase for about three years after that. 'cause it was, it would just, it so radically changed my life in the blink of an eye.

You know, they were at my house for an hour, maybe three cars pulled up and just pulled everything out. I mean, there was al almost nothing left. So that was the first one. And then, uh, the second one, which is a lot easier to understand, I had worked with a company, this was in, um. Actually in between there, there was a, a company that I worked with that got affected by the.com bubble.

So our big client was Motorola. And so I started working my way up this company and they literally went from offering me a promotion to two weeks later is when the.com bubble, when the, when the market crashed, and then they started firing people and doing cutbacks, literally 14 days. It just was devastated.

Then I moved into the restaurant industry and beautiful restaurant on the Ohio River overlooking my beautiful hometown of Louisville, Kentucky and something we were really proud of. I didn't own it, but I was managed. I was the general manager working with the owner, and we were about three months in and we were just getting customers in and we were really excited and that's when nine 11 happened.

And for those of you that don't remember. When nine 11 happened, we didn't know what it, what it was exactly. We didn't know if it was gonna keep cont, we didn't know if it was gonna be a ground war. We had no idea of the scope and scale of the attack or what was gonna happen next. So everybody hunkered down in their houses in this state of depression for three or four months.

Meanwhile, we were still paying, adjusted for inflation. We were paying $20,000 a month rent for this restaurant. 'cause we were on the river. The expenses were still there. We still had payroll, we still had food in the freezer. We had to pay a staff. And we, the cooks and the wait staff, we all just stared at each other for a month and realized nobody's coming.

So we had to eat about three months of expenses, which made it very difficult, you know, that that restaurant lasted about, that restaurant experience was so bad, uh, that I actually quit drinking because of it, you know, so the drinking got way, way worse. And then, you know, after the third time of waking up.

You know, in the, in the booth inside the restaurant, you know, after staying there all night, I was like, I, I have to, I have to make some changes. So, yeah. And then I ran an art gallery during the, um, housing crisis. So yeah, things, whatever I'm doing, whatever I'm into, Ron, go in the opposite direction. Um, but I'll leave it at that 'cause I know you have some follow up questions.

I think it's, you know, even like my mom, you know, her birthday is nine 11, not the actual day of, but, you know, long before it, and I remember we had gone out to a restaurant one year and it's just empty, you know, even years and years after nine 11, uh, you know, just a few years ago even, you know, because it's always been a somber day.

And, and hopefully it'll stay that way, you know, that's the point. But, um, yeah, I remember we were like the only people in the, in the restaurant and, uh, it was kind of eerie, you know. I can imagine right after it happened. And you know, I've done some interviews with firefighters on the show talking about how it changed the whole firefighting industry, how it affected so much.

And you know, there's a lot of people from my generation to generation below me, especially in a generation below that, that to us, Vietnam nine 11, they're almost fictional stories. Uh, obviously they're real events and I've interviewed people from them, but we're, they're so like far away from us, you know, and, and Vietnam, especially some of the interviews I've done with Vietnam veterans, it sounds like a entirely different world than where we live now.

And, and, you know, it's just, you watch these war movies that see, and, and then you hear these stories and it, it just feels fictional. But I think what I want to get into is, when did your drinking start? So you mentioned drinking. Was that during the military as well, or strictly afterward. No, I, um, I come from an alcoholic home.

Um, not that genetics. We know now that genetics does play a factor and I'm of, uh, Irish, English and German ancestry. So, you know, the trifecta of right, of, uh, fame, you know, the only thing I I'm missing is Russian, you know, that's, those are the, you know, biggest cultures that really get into their drink.

And I remember, I think, 'cause Dad drank, my father drank very heavily, very, very, so I grew up around it. I remember dad being passed out and things like that, and I, I must've been eight or nine years old and somebody gave me a sip of beer. I one of dad's friends. And I remember thinking, this is the most awful, horrible, how could, uh, you know, it's like a cigarette to a non-smoker.

It's like, get that thing outta here, man. Right? And then, uh, a friend of mine invited me to help him. I'm, I'm from a Catholic neighborhood, so I grew up in, in Catholic schools and we were cleaning up after, um, either a Friday fish fry or some event. Nobody was in the church, nobody was in the school, the building.

We had access to everything and we're cleaning up bingo cards and different things like that. And he says, Hey, you want a beer? I was 15 at the time and I went and I was thinking about that nasty beer I had when I was eight. And I said, man, I don't know. I don't know. And he gives me a sterling, which is really terrible, really terrible brand in my opinion.

And I choked it down and I thought, oh, this is, this is horrible. But I finally got it all down 'cause I didn't want this guy to think I was a wimp. And 15 minutes later I said. You got another one. And man, it never stopped after that. I was, by my second one, I was in, I was blacking out at 15, which again, you know, it's probably too deep to get into for, for a podcast.

But, um, blackouts are, you know, there's a lot of red flags. But being 15 and immediately, you know, starting to drink so heavy or going straight into blackout, that was, yeah. So, you know, I had it, I had, you know, alcoholism, whatever, it's genetic or situational, it got, it got me on that very first time and I didn't, I didn't drink the blackout that very first time, but probably my first blackout was maybe a month or two later.

So it got me early. It got me very early. Right. But not the earliest that's been shared on this show and not the worst. So trust me. Wow. This, yeah, I, uh, my show was. Uh, number one, search for Zoe for dark subjects on Apple Podcasts. That point until Halloween. Halloween bumped me down 'cause all these other stuff came up.

But, um, yeah, we've had some conversations on the show, which it, it just truly amazes me. You know, I grew up in a home with an alcoholic father, and so I never had any interest in alcohol and honestly, he was an alcoholic who did not want us to end up like him. He was pretty self aware to that degree. And so he also villainized alcohol and, you know, I, I saw the bad side of it in the world as well.

You know, these high schoolers who, they, they're, they're, they're laughing. I remember there was these girls who got drunk, these cheerleaders and lacrosse players, and one of them had said, if I ever get, you know, too drunk at a party again, just punch me in the face and record it. And so they were passing that video around the school and she's like, proud of it.

Like, ha ha, it's so much fun. I'm like. I never saw the appeal to it. Yeah. I've had people on my show who at 12, 13, sometimes eight years old, just outta curiosity, wanted to try alcohol. Like for me, you know, I just, I only saw negative effects of it, so I had no curiosity. I just had caution. Other people, you know, they say, well, my mom and dad always have at a party and everyone's having a good time, and so they get curious and then they start drinking.

Mm-hmm. Most of them throw up or say, this is terrible, or they, um, have no self-control and they just drink the whole bottle and blackout. Um, but yeah, I've, I've seen, I've interviewed some people who started doing drugs in high school, like, like bad drugs, like, you know, and they're, they're slumped over in a chair with, with holes in their, their arms.

It's just some crazy stuff that, you know, children get into. And I think people forget the reality of that, that, you know, drinking is in high school isn't just like, oh, it's, it's part of the high school experience. It can be a very. It could be the setup and foundation of a very bad path for a lot of people.

And I don't think that we should continue to say, oh, this is the high school experience. But that's what mainstream media and all these movies and TV shows and books push that. It's not a party until alcohol. You know, I've had conversations on the show about how it's interesting, you know, smoking used to be a big thing.

Every ad My parents had a smoking lounge at their high school. You could smoke on airplanes. Now there's no advertisements saying, Hey, it's a great time if you smoke a cigarette. Mm-hmm. It's all anti cigarette smoking. But we've never done that with alcohol. Well, we did and it went bad. But you know, there's still so much marketing and promotion.

Of course there's don't drink and drive ads, but there's, there's no like advertisement saying, Hey. These are the negative effects of alcohol. Don't ever drink it. I regret it. You know, like there's not AA people making advertisements against alcohol. It's just the little caution at the bottom. And I, I definitely wonder if we'll ever get to that point, but I think it's interesting how we can put industry and marketing before health.

But you look at even social media, we've got psychologists designing applications to keep people hooked on them and forget about the real world. I mean, marketing and morality, uh, are not synonymous or in line with each other at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite. There's a lot of studies funded by sugar-based companies that are promoting stuff for health reasons, and it's not true at all.

Yeah, look at the food, the food, uh, pyramid that's radically changed from, from when I was a kid. And, um, you know, there was, there were ads when I was really little that said, you know, to me, it might've been back in the sixties before my time, but it would, there were ads that said two and three doctors think camel cigarettes or, I mean, there those ads, you can dig them up.

I mean, it's, it's unreal, I think. Um, and I made a comment on a post about Chef Anthony Bourdain earlier who took, who as we know tragically took his own life. And I was keeping my eye on him because I, I like food quite a bit and, and the whole chef culture and he was traveling and I was like, most people, I was very intrigued with Anthony Bourdain and he had been a heroin addict and, but I noticed in these videos he was drinking.

Now I got sober through a 12 step program that you had already mentioned. And you know, we're told complete abstinence. You can't take any intoxicate. If, you know, and he, and I saw Anthony Bourdain talk about this on camera, saying, ah, you know, as long as you don't use your drug of choice, you're okay. And I thought, oh buddy, somebody's giving you bad advice.

Right? And then of course, when he, he did decide to leave this planet by his own hand, there was alcohol in his system. So, you know, when people go to get clean and sober, it means clean as you gotta get off of everything. You know, I just broke for people that follow me on social media. I just broke my arm.

I cannot move my left arm at all. And I told the doctors at the va, I said, give me Motrin. And, um, uh, what else was it? Like a Tylenol. That's it. I'm not taking anything. And the pain is very intense, but I'm not gonna play around, you know, I don't wanna end up living in a, in a dumpster somewhere. But yeah, I, I think that the drugs and alcohol and all of that, it's, it's gonna continue until we start to confront things about human behavior.

One of the reasons why I didn't go off the rails completely at 15 is my parents were still together. Now, they subsequently did split up and then I really went off the rails. But children of single parent homes, if you look at that data, their drug and alcohol pre elections, um, their chances of being abused, it's through the roof.

I mean, kids being raised in single parent homes, it's, it's a war zone out there. The threats, because there's only one. Think about, you've got two bulldogs protecting the chickens versus one and one parent as hard as they work, can never protect a child or good as good as two parents. So, but you know, we're not allowed to talk about things like that.

You know, we, we live in a culture where we like to. Make a single parent the greatest thing in the world. But it's, it's tough. It's very tough to protect a child with only one parent in the home. 100%. And it's against divine design. You know, God made two parents for a reason and there is a balance to everything in this life and creation.

So I think that's super important. And going back to the drug of choice, that is a huge justification. I'll give my own father, for example, he was like, Hey, I'm sober, and that meant I'm not drinking vodka, but I can drink wine and, and you know, hard seltzers and other drinks. And you know, I've met people who, you know, like in Korea, they're like, oh, it's only soju.

It's not whatever, blah, blah, blah. And, uh, that justification game is, is leads to a very dangerous path. It 100% does, you know, and it really does. And I, I think even with things like pornography and sexual affairs and all those matters as well, uh, same with gambling. You know, you can always minimize something and we can always justify something, and that's the issue.

But I want to get into more of your life story. So you talked about, you left us off at, uh, art Gallery, so Yeah, yeah. So which was, which was great because that's a weird, that's kind of an odd business for an arm, army artillery guy, right? I mean, I wasn't in the medical field the last five years, but, um, the thing about entrepreneurship is we, we always look for things that, that don't exist, but should.

Um, and a bunch of artists that I was hanging around with at the time, um, were talking about these galleries were ripping 'em off and, you know, not paying them their money. And I thought, oh, this is, this is a pretty easy problem to fix. And I started looking around, I went to a bunch of galleries and I was like, okay, a gallery is like a building with a bunch of lights, and then you put the art on the wall.

It really didn't seem like there were a lot of moving parts there to me, and I'm being flippant about it, but really, it, it, it basically is that simple. So I opened one and, um. I started doing things very, very differently. I didn't know the rules, so I was breaking a lot of rules of art galleries because I, I didn't go through that formal training.

I had no art training. I was hanging stuff wrong. People would come in and tap me on the shoulder. That was like one guy, the curator of the San Antonio Museum of Art. This guy was like the, you know, the prince of the town as far as art. And he would come to my shows and he's like, Robert, you need to lower this one and don't put those two colors together.

They were trying to help me 'cause my stuff was so wrong, but there was something about that vibe that people wanted to come to my gallery because I created this really fun environment. Whereas art galleries have this very stiff and, and, um, not fun. And this is San Antonio for anybody that's from South Texas.

They like to party man. They like to have a good time. And it's not like I had a bunch of alcohol. I did have wine available for people. I was already sober by then. And, uh, we were doing pretty good. And then of course we had the, the housing crisis and nobody had any money and didn't, weren't buying anything.

And they, especially, most people don't wake up in the morning and say, you know what? I want to go out and buy a $5,000 piece of art for my bathroom. You know? So it got, it got really tough to sell and because of that, I had to start putting more energy into a second job. And when I did that, I had to recruit a guy that I worked with to help out with the gallery to kind of be my, my right hand.

He'd been sober for several years and I wanted to give this guy a chance and it looked like a success story. And a lot of people liked him. He relapsed on drugs and it, it, it created so much negative publicity for the gallery. I ultimately ended up having to shut it down because sometimes our brand gets damaged so bad 'cause he created so much ill will.

He took money from people and so I just had to close the doors. But I still have friends from that time. I still have friends from when I had the recording studio. So. Yeah, I didn't know, sorry, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, right, and I think that's, you know, such a shame. I, you know, most of the stories I've heard where people go into partnership with someone mm-hmm.

It always ends pretty bad. That's right. You know, and it's like, it's hard because it's hard to do everything on your own by yourself. Uh, but at the same time, partnership is such a, a chance and you know, here you are trying to do the right thing, but you can't control other people's actions. And so I, I think that's just a shame.

And I was just thinking about, you know, you talking about having friends from that time and even a recording studio time and I was just thinking about what happened with the whole situation where the police, you know, I've definitely been let down by the police before as well. And you know, I think that's part of the issue with, we have these shows like.

You know about the police departments and the firefighting departments, and they're so dramatized, but people were like, this is, this is them. And then you call them in real life and, you know, it's, it's terrible response. In fact, uh, my favorite musician, Tom McDonald, he, one of his song lyrics was like, um, call the police and order a pizza and see who gets through your house first.

You know, it was, and like, I really en enjoyed that lyric because of, you know, some of the things we've seen socially and, you know, the, it's not just police officers. There's a lot of different groups of people where it's like, isn't, isn't this your job? This is what you're actively getting paid for. This is, this is what my taxes pay for you to do.

Mm-hmm. Uh, but you know, there's no sense of responsibility. People have each, and especially the newer generations and in general, em, employment has just become such a lazy culture. I know Starbucks, there was a, not too long ago, a whole controversy with that because Starbucks was implementing a uniform.

It's that uniform. It was pretty simple. It was like the green apron and then like black and brown underneath it. And there was all these people, uh, one particular side of, of politics in general that was saying it was intact on their body and their expression and their sexuality and gender because they couldn't dress how they wanted.

And as someone who served in the military as someone who went to private school, but also public school and also has been a civilian and and lived all sides full circle, I mean, it's a job. And, and jobs come with standards and responsibilities and people, COVID really did a negative impact by letting so many people work from home.

Because I think it really pulled a lot of people toward the direction of laziness, of not standards, of not responsibility. People not wearing pants. Now, I'm not saying I'm not in pajama pants right now, I don't wanna be a hypocrite here, but you know, the, the fact that so many people could get away with stuff and then going back to that and not wanting to have that culture, and then this idea that identity and, and your sexuality and your gender is tied to what you're wearing and that a uniform is oppression.

I mean, people were like, the whole outrage against Starbucks was insane. And I just, I couldn't even begin to fathom it. I've never once had a job where they said, you have to wear a uniform. I was like, what? Like, that's expected. In fact, if a job says you don't have a uniform, I'm relatively shocked. I think.

I mean, it's part of. Highlighting who is an employee and who is not. In fact, that's one of my issues with going to the mall. You go to a clothing store, you're trying to find someone to help you, you know, do you have pants in this size? And all the employees are just wearing whatever they're wearing. At least, you know, you go to Men's Warehouse, they're all wearing their suits.

You go boot barn, they're all wearing the cowboy gear. You go to Victoria Secret, or Francesca's or Forever 21 or these places, you don't know who the hell's working there. Um, total side tangent. But I, I think, you know, it's just the idea of responsibility of identity and people doing their job and people complaining about pay and responsibility has just become so entitled and lazy.

And the normalization of, of making a political statement at work, you're there to work, you know? Right. Look, look at how constrained we were to make any political statements when we were in the military. I jokingly said something about unionizing while I was in, I was not serious. I was just, you know, I like to stir things up and pe people, oh man.

I mean, it sucked all the oxygen out of the room. But I, I do want to go back and, and, and answer your question. I, I wanna make sure that this is clear too, that I take responsibility for the burglary of my studio. Um, I didn't have adequate security. I didn't want people to think I'm gonna come on here and air, um, you know, air my displeasure for the police, which I do have a displeasure for the police for, for, for many reasons.

So, I want to first take accountability, right? For the burglary. I didn't bring it on myself, but I, but I did put myself into a position where I was more vulnerable to an attack like that. Um, the police did absolutely nothing. I sat down and wrote. All the people that had come through my door. 'cause this was at my house and I had a good memory of who had been and who, you know, who I worked with and who I didn't.

So of course, the people that had come to view the studio that didn't do business with me, they were the highest on the list. And one of 'em ended up being a, a repeated felon after we did some, some more, um, investigation on my own. For those. Listening to this, if, if you have a big burglary, call the police to get the police report.

Then expect nothing else from them. 'cause you're gonna need the police report for your insurance company. If you have something really bad happen to yourself or a loved one. This is what you need to do. You need to hire a private investigator. I'm not joking. If somebody gets harmed in your family and you're not sure who the police file the report and then hire a, a, uh, an investigator, I probably would knowing, you know, if I could go back and talk to my 25-year-old self, I'd say, Hey, call a pi because the, uh, the emotional and financial damage that, that stu that, that the loss of all that equipment.

Would've well been worth spending back then. I probably could have spent $500 to have this guy go around and, you know, check my list of six suspects. But the, but the police did absolutely nothing. They didn't check prints at the site. There were footprints in the mud and they didn't take any photos or, and again, the guy said to me, this looked buddy.

This isn't a, a murder investigation. And just to go on another slight tangent, tangent. During part of my time in the insurance industry, I was a fraud investigator. And I still sometimes step in and, and do that kind of work. I can't tell you the number of times. A really good investigation was spoiled by bad police work.

Really horrible police reports not showing up at the scene when something happens. Um. Incorrect factual statements, not interviewing witnesses at the scene that we could have brought into a court case that we could have gotten these crooks, these scammers, we could have put 'em behind bars or we could have helped the, the, uh, district attorney bring justice to these people.

And what I realized is cops are just like any other employee, they're on a shift. They're just trying to get through their eight hours. And if you happen to have a hit and run at the end of somebody's shift, they're gonna put in the most, the minimal amount of effort they can and then whistle whistle on back home.

So, um, uh, you know, the, the glaze over my eyes of, of this, of their heroes, no, I lost it a long time ago. I was even, I responded to Hurricane Superstorm Sandy up in New York in 2012, and I was sent into a fire chief's home to assess his, his, the damage from the superstorm and. And this is, it's not gonna get me in trouble to say this, 'cause I'm not gonna say his name or the company, but he was claiming some things that were damaged, that he had previously said were damaged and they, and that had been replaced.

So he was committing fraud. This was a very high level. New York, you know the heroes, you know these guys, they're hero. And not only that, but he also, prior to the storm coming inland, he got his entire team from the firehouse to come to his house on company time pack sandbags around his house to make sure his house was okay when the soup not, not sandbags for the elderly people in the neighborhood know him.

And, uh. I just remember going back to my car after evaluating everything, and I had the photos of the stuff that he said that he had. Oh, I definitely had that replaced from the last storm and just sitting in my car just in shock, because again, I still had that nine 11. They're all heroes. They all know they're flawed human beings.

And, and they exhibit the same. Bad, bad. No. So I'm not saying they're all bad, but, um, they're just like everybody else. You know, you give them an opportunity to not do their job, um, they're gonna not do their job. So, I'm sorry, did I answer that question? No, that's, uh, a hundred percent true. I watched a comedian was talking about how, you know, he was one, one of like the, the entry guards for a military base.

And at first it was, he had the mindset, anyone who comes in here drunk driving, cracking down on them. Like I, you know, I'm big and strong until the first time he did it, you know, near the end of his shift. And then the paperwork kept him past that. He said, I realized there was so much paperwork and reports and this and that.

He goes, I just started letting people go through the base. I don't care if you're drinking, just drive safe. You know? So I, I, you know, we've, we've seen it before historically. That's right. The worst part is they have the, the equipment, the forensics knowledge and money to investigate on a deeper level.

And they, and they choose not to yet will put so much time and effort into other matters. And same with the military. I saw so much time and effort put into the most minuscule, meaningless things. Then you have these big issues going on and they, they leave it, you know, and I've seen military investigations and, you know, uh, court cases and mass hearings where they don't even bother to interview witnesses because, oh, that would take too much time.

Or, oh, that person, uh, transferred to a different ship. We don't feel like going and getting a statement. It's just absolutely ridiculous. Uh, same with the court system. So I, I agree. I think a private investigator, and, you know, that comes down to what do you value more? You know, do you want to try and believe for something to happen, or do you want to pay and see results?

So it's a, it's a shame and to me, it's a shame living in this fallen world that you have to have security for your house. Ideally, you shouldn't have to have any security, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. And so. You talk about your military service, and then I just wanna get a greater understanding of what you, why did you join and what did you do while you were in?

Yeah, yeah. This, I joined, um, August 30th, 1990 and the ground war was started in November something I think, or December something. We, um, and I don't mean my family, this was just an independent opinion. I came to from watching the TV at the time, there was a lot of, now we realize propaganda that the Iraqi Republican guard was the third, I think third largest standing army in the fourth best.

I mean, they really put 'em up as this super foe. And for those that don't remember, uh, Iraq had invaded Kuwait, a sovereign country. And we were gonna go in there and, and help the Kuwaiti. So of course, you know, TV propaganda went into full spin. That and, and being from the Catholic tradition, there was a biblical element to it too, that, you know, this guy could be the guy, he could be the ultimate enemy because he's from that area of the world.

Right. You know, he's from Right. Ancient, you know, so there, there was that, and I thought, you know, this is the battle. This is the battle of the millennia of the central, potentially. That's what I was telling myself again, you know, gimme a break. This is a 20, you know, the nine to 18, 19-year-old kids' mentality.

So judge me, you know, as the, as the child that I was. But I said, I wanna, I wanna, I, I need to be part of this. You know, this is, this is a righteous. Um, battle and again, I was just being informed from the tv. I got a lot of resistance from my high school. They have a high college bound rate, so it was kind of a college preparatory.

They begged me not to go in the military. My parents weren't hot on the idea. I don't think really any anybody was in my corner. But I joined and, um, joined artillery too. So you would've thought, you know, if you're an artillery, you're absolutely gonna be sent to the desert. And unfortunately the weapon that I picked, which is funny 'cause your channel's couple of nukes, that was a Lance missile crew member at that time.

It was the only nuclear capable weapon that the Army had. And I sat watching nukes in a bunker in Germany while the war was going on. So I watched CNN and I watched it all go on from tv. So I never deployed, I never got to go over. Germany was as close as we got, and of course we were. A lot of us were there because we wanted to fight and we were frustrated about it and we asked the commander like, why aren't we going?

We're the only weapon system not over there. Everybody else is there. You know, the, the gun bunnies, you know, the two artillery guys, they're all there. Why aren't we getting some action boss? You know? And they said that it was the optics, the fact that we were nuclear capable. We didn't wanna quote unquote send the wrong message to the Middle East.

Now you gotta realize this is pre nine 11 thinking. We were still worried about what they thought about us over there, which after nine 11, obviously that. That very much changed, and you still see that mentality today where if there's outrage over there, there's very little concern by us. We're gonna protect ourselves and our interest for, for better or for worse.

But yeah, I was, I was sold on that, uh, that we were, you know, freedom fighters and we were gonna help the Kuwait's out, which we did. You know, the soldiers that did go, they did get a great job. They pushed the Iraqis out of there and right as we were, um, well, not me, but the people that went right as they were about to kind of terminate Saddam Hussein's command, they were told to stand down.

So Colin Powell was told, you know, we're not empire building. We're not gonna go into Iraq. We're just gonna stop here. The, the Kuwaiti people have been freed and we're good. Then of course, you know, after nine 11, we went to Afghanistan first and then we went to Iraq and we finished quote unquote finished the job.

So, yeah. And then the, so after three years of being in that weapon system and not being deployed, they got rid of our weapon system because it was replaced by multi launch rocket system or MLRS, which was the hot new weapon on the block. And ours was designed in the seventies, so they got rid of us. So I was unemployed in the army.

I had no MOS for a while there. And they said, I'll show you how smart I was as a kid. They said, what? They said, what, what kind of job do you want to transfer into? And I said, well, what else involves radiation? Because, you know, ours was nuclear. That's what a genius. I laugh when I think about that stupid kid that made that decision, but they put me in radiology.

So I worked at Brooke Army Medical Center, um, in radiology. I worked in the, uh, not the kind of radiation work you wanted to do. Totally different radiation. Yeah. And, and, and I'll tell you to combat radiation. Yes. Oh, I was a, I was a, I was a fish outta water. I was, I was smoking and drinking and f this and f that and working in a hospital, so they had to sit me down and acculturate me.

They were like, you know, Sergeant Gaines, I was sergeant at that time, and they were like, Sergeant Gaines, you can't, you know, you can't. Scratch your crotch in front of everybody right in the middle of the floor. 'cause I was used to only working with guys and now I'm in a hospital environment. So I was Right.

Yeah. I was a, I was a misfit and I stayed in that for about five years. I will tell you though, as much as much negativity as there is to my story, the professionals that I worked with at Brook Army Medical Center, the doctors, the nurses, the physician's assistant, they were dynamite and Brook Army Medical Center also took civilian trauma.

We had a, uh, we were the only one of two level one trauma centers in the whole city, seventh or eighth, largest city in, in. So I've seen every way a person can be harmed. And they did a great, they put people back together that you would just think there's no way. And they had a, um, prenatal ward where these little babies would come in and, I mean, I'm like, how are you gonna get an IV into this little baby?

I mean, a baby this slightly larger than my thumb. And they get 'em and they survive. And yeah, I don't know, you know, I'm sure Brooke Army Medical Center still doing great work, but in the late nineties, oh man. Institute of Surgical Research nicu, amazing work. Amazing, amazing. Just can't say enough great about those people.

The leadership was a little wonky, but the job itself and the people that dedicated their selves to helping people at that hospital dynamite best of the best

opposite of, of what I saw first hand in the Navy and the horror stories that, uh, my shipmates have gone through and, and retold. So glad to hear that. I've, it seems like the, the army medical system is much better than the navy, but I won't say that in a full general sense because I'm sure there's plenty of Army guys who would instantly call me off and say, listen, I'll tell you what happened to me.

Yeah. Well, there were a lot of eyes on that hospital in particular. I'll tell you the person that I served under our, our, the sergeant in charge of the radiology department, complete waste of space. And the guy before him, complete waste of space. I'm, I mean, the medical professionals, the ones actually doing the surgeries and do, they were awesome.

Um, you know, I'm not a bureaucratic guy. I just wanted to do my shift, you know, 8, 10, 12 hour, whatever you need from me, but I don't wanna go have a meeting about it. And those guys, the bureaucrats I hated, I hated them and they hated me. And there, and, and there was no, we didn't hide it very, very well. So, yeah, the last five years was pretty rough psychologically, because I always got the worst shifts.

I always got the, you know, I was punished because I was very outspoken about the, the lack of quality to the management. But I thought, you know what, as long as I'm making the patients happy and I'm taking care of my fellow vets and the civilian trauma, I got great marks on that. So the reviews were good as far as my patient care, but I definitely didn't play, play nice with the bureau bureaucrats.

So did you find transitioning into the civilian world to be difficult? Because I mean, that's usually a difficult transition. In your case, you kind of went into entrepreneurism and had the whole weird situation. So I feel like your transition was terrible on top of terrible, but also a bit better. 'cause you're an entrepreneur, so you're not in as many environments where you had to be.

So I, I suppose civilian, like, where you can still be your military self. So how did you find that whole transition? Sure. Without, without going too deep into it, because of my father's alcoholism and what I was exposed to as a kid. Um, and even with the Catholic church, because we had priests telling us, you know, crazy things that I realize now aren't, aren't true.

So. I didn't have very much respect for leadership in general in any phase of my life. And I got that from a very early age. So, you know, if people get diagnosed with this, what is this o oppositional defiant disorder. I don't know if I have that, but I really don't. I like leadership if it's competent, but if you don't know your job, you're gonna have a hard time managing me because I'm gonna in the military.

That's right. So it was tough and, and, and I bucked up against most of the, usually the managers, the leadership above my direct manager usually liked me because they knew my heart was in the right place and that I was very mission oriented and I had that structure. But the guy I worked for is usually a guy was always, was always terrible and it was hard to deal with.

So I just tried to pour my joy and get my joy outta doing the job. 'cause that was the part that, that I liked to clock in, you know, get my boots on and start taking, taking care of patients or doing the artillery. The transition was very difficult because in my heart of hearts I thought, you know, I really wanna run something myself.

Like in the studio, when I had that right before I got out, there were a few bands that I chose not to work with. And I thought, wow, this is amazing. Business owners. We have the ultimate decision. If we don't like a customer, we don't have to do business with them. So that's why entrepreneurship was this magnetic draw because there was no hierarchy.

There was nobody telling Robert Gaines what to do. And you know, to my young mind, that was very, um, you know, even at the gallery, I did things my way for better or for worse. Um. I think that's a great way to live as long as you're honest about your failings, because when you're a hundred percent in charge, you're also a hundred percent at fault.

You know, unless a meteor just comes outta the sky and it's just some random event. Right. Um, you know, me, your luck is, is probable. That's, that's right. Yeah. I'm, yeah. I gotta be careful. Absolutely. Well, even the, even the gallery, the, the kid relapsing on drugs, you know, my heart was in the right place and he was, when I entrusted him with, with kind of co-running the gallery, he was in good shape, good condition.

He didn't relapse until afterwards. But where I did go wrong, and this is a great lesson for any entrepreneur, even an employee, that there's a big difference between. Delegation, which is good leadership. So there a lot of the bad leaders you and I served under, they didn't know how to delegate. They abdicated and then they punished us with because of their unclear commands.

Right. Does that sound very familiar? You're not sure what you're supposed to do and then you get punished. Yeah. So you know, that's the prob that's, that's, that's the sign. A bad leadership. And in that position, I couldn't teach him what I didn't know. So I abdicated power to him. I didn't delegate because I had never been taught that.

I understand it now. And anybody who watches my podcast, every other episode I talk about Dan Martel's, buy Back Your Time, the formula's in there. And when I read, um, when I read that book right after it came out the end of 2023, I could barely sleep for three days. I thought if I had known this 20 years ago, I.

Everything would, would be different. But I'm grateful that I did finally learn. So don't beat yourself up for what you didn't know when you were 20. Just as long as you're constantly learning, uh, right. Just don't make that same mistake twice. That's when you really should kick yourself if you keep finding yourself in the same situation.

So I keep running into new challenges, you know, terror attacks, uh, down markets. The stock market keeps. So, and now with like what happened with the studio, I have vinyl covered steel doors on my house now. I mean, you, you'd, you'd have to have a tank to get in here. Now why do I do that? Because of the lesson that I learned in 1998.

So every aspect of what I'm doing from entrepreneurship to my personal interactions with people is an evolution of those lessons that I've learned. So. I don't think you're gonna see me make any of those mistakes twice. I'm gonna make new mistakes and I'm gonna learn from them. But yeah, the transition to the civilian world was, was very, very tough because I got myself into another situation where, um, the leadership was very poor.

I did have some bright spots. I worked, um, as a marketing consultant in there. I was doing a whole bunch of things. I was wearing a lot of different hats, struggling to survive. And ultimately that's when I went back to college at I think 31 or 32, which was right about when I got sober. So that was the, that was the really big part of the story.

And I'll tell you, the first three years of my sobriety sucked. Most people aren't honest about that, especially people that go through the 12 step program like I did. The first three years was horrible. The big thing that changed that, that revolutionized everything is I stopped blaming other people. But it took me three years of sobriety to even begin to start.

Personal accountability. I know a lot of people who are sober, and you and I talked about that, people that don't drink, but there's, they still have all of these, the 12 step program, we'll call it, defects of character because they didn't work on their selves. It, you have to do more than just not drink.

You have to pursue self, self-improvement. And when I really started to look at my role in the failures in my life, the gains effect started to go away. Time started to subside a little bit because I had a hand in every one of those cataclysms. Now the nine 11, I really couldn't have, that was a, a, a bolt from the blue.

There was nothing. We, you know, we were doing our best and then something completely outside of our control happened and we did our best to deal with it. But yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't a smooth transition out of the military. I do like working inside of structure to this day. So, you know, I have rituals and I have an SOP and I have guidelines that I follow.

And so I've created my own, you know, basically regimented en environment for my life. And that's what I want to focus on is between the art gallery and now that segment of your life leading up to what you're doing now. Sure. So at that point I was, um, when the gallery started to fall apart, I was also transit, my day job.

'cause I usually through these, I had a day job and I was working as a marketing director for a career school. And that was going good. But they were very jealous of, and I mean this sincerely 'cause they had expressed it to other people. They were very jealous about what was happening with the gallery I was on, you know, I ended up on tv.

I was in the back when there were newspapers. I was in the newspaper a bunch of times and, uh, that really started to rub, rub them wrong, even though I really liked them and they liked me, they liked the work that I was doing, but I got offered a much larger opportunity to, to be the marketing director over three different companies.

So. Unfortunately, and this was a mistake. I chased the glory. I left this, this family business where I was very comfortable at as, and I was the marketing director for a career school. I became the marketing director for a sign company, a basically a PR company, and a, let's see, what else were they into at the time?

You know, it'll come to me. Anyway, it was a big shot role. I thought it was a big step up. And we, once I was in there, I realized very quickly we, we weren't aligned at all as far as what our visions were and what we wanted to do. And, um, they saw what I did with the gallery. They didn't really see what I did with the career school, but they saw how, how I was able to bring, to go from.

Opening a business that nobody had heard of to having the place completely packed. And I was getting all this splashy pr and they wanted that for their company. But you know, the biggest part was a sign company. And how excited can you get over a sign company? You have to make it, you know, an art gallery and come and drink some wine and have some, uh, and we got a jazz band.

You know, I can sex that up and make people want to go to it. A sign company was, it was a, it was a tougher sell, so I wanted to push them in this more exciting direction. And they, and the owner wasn't that, that type of person. So I left that. And then when I, and this was the first time I ever really made any financial success in my life.

I became an insurance adjuster and I was living in Texas. I was still in South Texas at the time and the year that I got into it, which, you know, we we're gonna fast forward a little bit. Now we're into 2011. I got picked up to start doing storm work, so when the hail would fall, I would drive around Texas and other states looking at cars, writing estimates.

And since it was a temp job, it was contract, the money was really good. There was per diem and, and um, yeah, and I did that all the way technically really up until this last year. I've also was a staff, um, insurance adjuster. When I did fraud, I worked, I won't say the company's name, but it's the largest auto insurance company in the United States, and I investigated fraud.

The only reason why I don't mention the company is it allows me to tell stories about my time there if you ask questions, you know, so. But, uh, but that's it. Yeah. So I made my bones the money. I never saw really any money until I was in my forties, so I was sober all that time, struggling all of that time.

And then, um, the insurance industry has been very good for me, but AI and, and automation is wiping out all of those opportunities. So I'm in a career transition once again. Now I'm pivoting as a podcaster author, and, you know, we'll all wait and see how that works out. Right. So how have you found your podcasting journey so far?

What was kind of the inspiration behind that and how long have you been running it? Great question. Um, I'd initially, the idea was just to start a mastermind group. Me and a bunch of other business owners, we, we liked each other's company, you know, first and foremost. And, um, you know, on the heels of the pandemic, it was, it was kind of hard to link up.

And I said, well, let's formalize this. Let's make an like an organization. Once I did that, I thought, well, I need to create content for this group, have some videos so that new members would know what we're about. So I started buying video equipment and doing different things. And then I, I looked around at the equipment and I thought, this is the exact same stuff that they used for a podcast.

So let me start a podcast. And then once that got going, it then led to the book. And it just kept growing and, and growing, and growing and growing. Um, the mastermind group never took off. Um, people want to be, I always say people are willing to pay for, to take away paint or to give pleasure. That's where the big money is.

You said it earlier, uh, in, in this conversation, you know, the TikTok and they wanna look at Brazilian butt models and, you know, and I'm talking about business all day. I'm talking about economics. You wanna put somebody asleep at a cocktail party, start talking about economics and commodities and gold and inflation.

They'll, they'll absolutely, everybody will just pass out from, from, from boredom. So it's been very difficult to grow that channel because. I'm, I'm not a Brazilian model at the beach, you know, in a bikini, so I'm fighting against this, you know, I'm competing against people's attention for these much less serious things.

But, but I still feel like it's an important thing to, to get the information out there. Um, I'm now releasing the second edition of the, of the book that I first wrote, Cintel. The reason why I did that is I've grown so much as a writer that I'm revising that first book. I think the first edition was okay, but after a year, year and a half of solid writing every day, I have a lot more skill.

So I want to increase the, increase the quality of that book, and that should be out maybe in the next two or three weeks. I've just had the, um, the cover designed for that. And I'm halfway through, uh, my manuscript for my second book, which is about LinkedIn and, and general networking. But to answer your question, the podcast, we've had moments where things went.

I guess viral on a very low level. But as far as subscribers, it's, it's been very, very tough. You know, we're not an entertainment channel and I will not put myself in a thumbnail making a bunch of silly faces. I'm not gonna be a clown, you know, Mr. Be, he can do all, you know, look at him, but, you know, he opens his mouth and he looks like, you know, I'll give you an example.

I just saw an article yesterday about Hailey, the Hak, TOA girl, Haley Williams, and Yeah, yeah, she was streaming the other day, live streaming, and she had nine viewers, nine. And you know, it's tough for me to look at people like that at the height of their fame. And then I look at my subscriber account, which is less than 200 by the way, and I'm like, man, you know, if I could get 1% of that, you know, so I do sit back and, and scowl at these people that go viral, but.

Look at where she's at now, and I don't, I don't wish harm on any anybody, but you know, she, um, she could have went in a very serious direction and delivered a lot of value and, and pivoted, but she kind of stayed in that kind of, stayed in that mark and it's, and now, you know, she's at the end of that career.

You know, that's, that's it for her. So, uh, it worked out, I guess, the way it was supposed to. So I'd much rather be serious on camera and actually be trying to help people with a low viewer account than to blow up and go super viral for something really silly. And that's actually my only fear. I don't fear.

Very much, but I fear going viral for the wrong reason. Like, somebody misunderstands something I say in this interview and they're like, oh, he's a Nazi. You know, or, you know, and then that becomes the story. And then now I'm fighting a PR nightmare. Um, a matter of fact, that's name the, uh, the title of this episode, interviewing a Nazi.

No, but I, I, I feel you on a lot of that. God, it resonates deeply with me and a lot of people in my industry because, you know, I, I get frustrated too. You know, I have content on suicide prevention, addiction recovery, self-improvement, mental health, military matters, whatever it is of great value. And, you know, it gets a low view count, low share count.

Meanwhile, I saw, um, a friend from my TikTok once, 'cause I don't support TikTok. I don't use TikTok, but a friend showed me a, a, a reel from it of a gentleman who touches ant heels and rates them on their softness and texture and stuff. One mil over a million lengths. You know, I look at some truly degenerative sexual, hateful, racist content online, and that's what sells, that's what trends.

I know people who have businesses, um, you know, for example, there was a gentleman who does, uh, veteran clothing and donates, uh, some of the money to veterans, um, pivot into, uh, sexualizing women to sell his, you know, clothing. Like he will have trucker hats on women in thongs to sell the trucker hat for the veterans.

And so, like, there's people who will do that. It's definitely crossed my mind. Make a couple of nuke bikini on a. Not a Brazilian motto, uh, but, you know, uh, a a different type of motto and sure. I mean, it could probably push something, but my thing is, uh, selling out sexualization, actually, it's a thing that I noticed the other day with some of the women who have been on my show or work in my industry, turning to beautifying themselves or sexualizing themselves to push their content.

And it's a shame because some of them have really good wholesome content about business, about health, about fitness, whatever it is. Uh, but now they're trying to, uh, you know, conform to the world rather than the renewing of their mind. So it's, it's a shame and it's frustrating, especially with ai, cat videos getting more likes than my content.

And the attention span decrease has been painful. You know, I had a YouTube expert say, well, Mr. Whiskey, you're, you gotta get your shorts time down to like 20 seconds max. And it's like, how do I get a clip of a conversation, like the conversation you and I have had today and get 20 seconds of super impact?

20 seconds of content or humor, that's enough for them to go watch the whole interview for an hour. It is just ridiculous. The decreasing time span. And, you know, social media realized that, and they added the fast forward function just to get people to continue to consume long social media's long form, which is, you know, a minute to three minutes.

Whereas long form is, you know, much longer than that. But it's, it's so frustrating to see these podcasts like Hailey Welch Yeah. The Hawk to a girl. She had, uh, I believe it was Mark Cuban on her podcast, you know, pitching business ideas to him about the Hawk to a pickle. You know, it's ridiculous. I have a, I think I have a great show.

Obviously I'm biased, but, uh, it would be awesome to have one of sharks from Shark Tank come on my podcast, but, um, I'm not on their radar because I'm not, you know, viral for making a blowjob joke and it's, it ridiculous. What, and it's a catch 22, right? Sorry. No, no, no. Go, go ahead. It's a catch 22 because, and I, I said this in a video, I think it's gonna go up tonight, but I said, I, I, I had an opportunity to get the actor Eric Roberts on my channel.

Julia Roberts brother, great actor. He was in the Dark Knight, a bunch of other really great, great stuff. I mean, he's, he's a blister, but he's, he's still, he is a great actor. A lot of people know him. And, um, I was in Conta contact with somebody on his team and we, you know, and then they just stopped contacting.

And I, I know what happened. They went to my channel 'cause he, he was doing a book tour, so he was doing a lot of press with, with smaller podcasters. Not as small as me, but, you know, I thought, ah, maybe I got a shot even offered him some money between me, you and your audience. I, you know, I said, Hey, you know, here's some money.

And, uh, but anyway, they didn't respond because what they did, what they do, they looked at my, my subscriber account and they thought, okay, how many books can we sell going to this guy's thing? So they're making a, you know, they're making a, a business, a monetary decision. And I understand that. So the way out of this is you, you can either give into the algorithm and I've just recently started a subscription to Vid IQ and it analyzes my thumbnails and my titles.

And really, honestly, Mr. Whiskey, this is, it's this program is pushing me in directions that I don't like. I would, I'll write an honest title about what it is and it'll say it'll make the most ridiculous suggestion. And I'm like, that's not really what this video is about. Um, well, I think Vid iq, here's what I'll say.

'cause I've Sure, sure. I've also had Vid iq. If you are a podcaster, vid IQ is not for you. It is for YouTubers. I did customized thumbnails for every podcast episode. It was time consuming. It took a lot more time than you would think, and it had no results. I found that the best way as a podcast, and this is my personal opinion now, I have every podcast thumbnail.

It's a black board, white background, me and the guest. And it's kind of like, uh, Steve Bartlett, you know, diary of the CEO. He has a pretty simple thumbnail design too. It's the, it is a, a picture of, of him and the guest and then something in the middle. It's kind of similar to that. I have found people really podcast consumption on YouTube when it is not an in person recording like Joe Rogan's podcast.

Very low consumption. It's not zero. Very, very good observation. It's very low. Buzz Sprout, which is one of the largest hosting platforms for revenue podcast. I, you know, I went to some of their talks because, uh, they're, they're pretty local to me. They shared that one of their videos that had like a, the whole, almost a, uh, you know, like a 90% retention rate for that episode.

Audio only that same video had a two minute retention rate on YouTube. People just, wow, really same, same exact content. One of their most popular episodes. Great consumption. Video just doesn't do it. And I think that so many podcasters get wrapped up in the thumbnails. It is just a waste of time. What I have found is if people are looking for a podcast and you have a clear copy paste podcast thumbnail for your show, it just aligns better with your branding.

It makes it more findable when you're searching on the internet. So I I, I would caution people from getting too much into it as, as you're sharing here now, that it just, it pushes you in a YouTuber direction. We're not YouTubers, we don't make video game content. We don't make videos. That's, that stuff is great.

Like you said, the, the big reaction face and the, and the, in the background, it's just not worth it. You know, I, and it's, it's hard as a podcaster, I tried making it, you know, catchy, you know, cliquey. Uh, but it's, it's hard to do. So when you, when you have a conversation, you have to exaggerate. I'd have to have you and me sitting in artillery field with our heads like, what that to, to be.

Not too exaggerator. Like we, hey, he was an artillery guy. Um, but we were never in Kuwait together, but like we talked about it. So that's what the thumbnail can be. And honestly, when you do that, it, um, you, you can also hurt yourself a lot. People say, Hey, this guy never sat in Kuwait. This, this was a clickbait.

And once you get labeled as clickbait, uh, it doesn't matter how many of their, of, of your videos you have, if all it takes is one bad representation there, that whole podcast is done. That's right. A lot of, a lot of clicks and they immediately click off, you know, where they're, you've gotta deliver on, on that promise.

I just did a short the other day that I, you know, you know, you put stuff out there and you're like, this is gonna kill, you know, 'cause it's, it's, it was very kind of similar to another, uh, short that did really, really well. And, uh, I usually have pretty low hopes for shorts, but I spent. I spent 40 minutes on this short, and the short is maybe 40 seconds.

So I spent a lot of time, I was using to script and music and I was, I was right. I was moving the music to the beat of the guest talking and, you know, so I, you know, here I was, I'm in my, in my mind, you know, I'm like, Han Zimmer and Interstellar, you know, I've got the orchestra and Right, right. Doing the beats and six views.

Six, six views and it, and I, and I'm still very, I'm very proud of that short, and I'm proud of that episode. Six views, 40 minutes. It's not even the content itself, it's the words, it's the title, it's the audience that YouTube pushes it out to. And I, I recently interviewed professional comedian and Danny Johnson, and he and I both performed comedy and we spoke about something you mentioned, which is the same for content as it is for comedy.

We always had that joke that we think is gonna be killer. Like, I can't wait to tell this joke. This is my favorite joke. And it's just like a silent audience or like, and then this joke that you think is, ah, I just like threw that in there. People love it. And the same with YouTube shorts. I, I love seeing my statistics for that because I could even tell you a pattern.

You know, I post about two shorts a day and I, some of them have a thousand views. Some of them have 600 views. Some of them have three. I can tell you words like, uh, sexual addiction, pornography, addiction, gambling. A, um, does not perform well. Anything that is about rape prevention, sexual assault, domestic violence prevention does not perform well on YouTube.

Shorts. If I had the word faith, God or Jesus in there, it is guaranteed to get dislikes. I can, any faith-based short I have put out always gets at least one dislike instantly within, within five minutes of it being posted, it will get attacked by the enemy within. That's a bot, that's a, that's guaranteed a paid from, I'm just telling you.

It's just, it's paid opposition. Unbel for real. And then, you know, you got, um, other stuff like I posted, uh, the one joke from my comedy skit, um, on, as a short, yesterday, one of my most popular shorts of all time within, you know, 24 hours. And it was just about, um. Me coming on stage, I say, Hey, feel free to laugh until you pass out because I'm military qualified or perform CPR on women only.

Their rule, not mine, they said, they said I'd have to join the Navy if I want to kiss men. And so, and that's all it is. It's like a 22nd clip, making fun of the Navy and, and military stuff and like people loved it. You know? I saw that that was the cruise ship video, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When I saw that, oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Well, I was gonna say in a, my, one of my other most popular shorts was me talking about, um, here's some military BS for you. Saturday morning emergency must, emergency must every person on the base. Right now we got people driving in from out state because it's the weekend we go, 10 o'clock we muster in school bidding.

Surprise shave check. Yeah, so I shared that short, and I tell you, it was super popular because every person who had served in the military had some kind of BS story. You know, this was back when, um, you know, the comment section was all people being like, man, my base pulled some. So sometimes it is about that humor and relatability.

But then you have times where I've posted stuff like, here's a great life lesson. It's just like, you know, so it really is, but I want to say something positive about it, which is my mindset and it's hard mindset to have is not chasing numbers, but having almost a gambler's mindset. This optimistic view that you never know when the right person is gonna view it.

You know, I've, I've had people tell me a story, man. I had all these book signings at Barnes and Nobles books. Really? No one showed up. Then this one time someone showed up and he was a movie director, and now they're making my book a movie. So you never know who you're gonna meet. You know, I've had people listen to the podcast and, uh, it might not be a lot of people.

Then suddenly, boom, this person says, you changed my life. So it's more about retention, and I love the analogy, would you rather have a million clients and half of them never show up again? Or you've got 10 clients that come back every week. That's right. Pay a low amount every single week. You know, it's, it's about retention and engagement more than it is numbers.

More numbers can lead to more engagement or not. And I think it's hard with whatever endeavor you're doing to not focus on those numbers, but it's about the value behind the numbers. I, and I think your, um, strategy about thumbnails is spot on by the way. I need to, I need to throw that in there. I, I started thinking about that in terms of how it, how it may also affect.

The social media, uh, how many people have that you're connected to? Because I'm, I'm much my quote unquote stuff now, now that my arm is broke, I'm not writing nearly as much. But the stuff that I was writing on LinkedIn, uh, just advice, general stuff that actually did very well. I get more responses and reactions to things I write on LinkedIn than anything on average, than anything I do on YouTube.

So really, it seems like, and I was not very active until recently on LinkedIn and I was like, oh, it's a bad, maybe I, maybe I, yeah, maybe I found a home. Um, but in with that, where you have the thousand true fans, you know, that gets talked about a lot in podcasts. I have a couple of people and I bring them up.

During my podcast and, and when I'm a guest and others, there's a guy named Mike Dry who wrote a, a nice, uh, great book for kids about baseball. Very wholesome, very lessons oriented. He's trying to get his book out there, but no matter what I do, if I go live, if I shoot a, he clicks like he shares. He's, I mean, he's a soldier.

He's, he's, he's a battle buddy all the way. Robert Lane, who, um, he's also a member of, uh, pod Match. He's been on some interview shows as well. He's a audio book coach. Great guy. I interviewed him on my channel. Anytime I go live, I post anything he likes, he shares, and obviously I reciprocate. And, uh, I've got a few other friends that are, that are, you know, in there most of the time.

And of course I'm sharing their stuff too. All I really need is about. Maybe 36 of those people. I figure three dozen of those people. So that's really, I've got it down to that. If I had 36 people that just were cheerleaders for what I'm trying to do, I don't need thousands of people. And plus, you know what, what am I doing now?

I'm just trying to sell a book. I want people to, you know, go to Amazon and buy Scintilla. So I'm a low ticket guy. I I don't have a a course, I'm not gonna get you on the phone and work you up a value ladder to hit you with a $5,000 one-on-one. You fly. I'm not that guy, man. That's, uh, grant Cardone, that's his, I'm like the, I'm in the unit.

I'm from the opposite universe of, of Grant Cardone. I want you to have this book. If you get value out of it, great. If you didn't, you only wasted $20 instead of the thousands. I've wasted on gurus and coaches. Coaches. You just it to someone. That's right. Yeah, that's right. But I, you know, and I honestly think anybody that doesn't know what to start.

What to do. That book answers that question. So if somebody's working in a cubicle working nine to five and they're like, I want to escape, but I just don't know what it is I want to do. I think if, if you go through that book, it answers that question and whether you're a, a meditator and you're into yoga, there's kind of stuff about that right.

Brained unlocking that type of creativity. 'cause that's, I worked with all of those artists and I understand the, the mechanics of what goes on in their mind. Then there's, there's solid science in there too. I mean, there's, there's psychological studies and so forth, but if you're like me. More of a data guy then there's a lot of great left brain ex exercises in there.

But that's it. You know, that's my big, my big scam is I'm just trying to get somebody to spend, you know, depending on whether it's audiobook or Kent, 15 to $20, that's it. I don't have an upsell. I don't, I'm not trying to get you to pay me thousands to do whatever. My, my pitch is very simple, and for guys like us, you and I as podcasters, the road is a lot tougher for us.

And because I'm not out there telling people, just give me five grand, I'll change your life. You know, it's gonna be a harder road for me, and I understand that, but I'm not gonna be a Haley Welch. I'm not gonna blow up and then burn out. I'm gonna grow slowly, and if I don't do that, then I'll do something else.

You know, I'll go back to washing dishes like I was between jobs many, many years ago. You know, I'm not too proud to do anything, so I'll be fine. You know, it's the other people that can't pivot, that don't, you know, that aren't willing to go wash dishes, um, or do things to survive. Those are the ones I worry about.

I can tell you, brother, I'll be all right. Well, podcasting with one arm is easier than washing dishes with one arm. I will say that. I'll say that. It's very true. Yeah. You should see my sink. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you have a dishwasher. 'cause then you, you can't transfer with one hand. But I, I get flagged for this makes dating women hard because they're like, why do you wash the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher?

Because the dishwasher doesn't do a good enough job. That's true. When you buy. The $1 dish soap box from Kroger's. So I need to do a little prep work to save money. That's, but um, yeah, I'm, I'm moving back to the dish pods. 'cause the, this, I got this powder box and it just does, it leaves like a white residue on all of my dishes.

Yeah. And I'm like, now I gotta hand wash them again, because now there's this like, residue on themselves. Uh, I digress. But what would you say, you know, we've gone over your life. Started out linear, went back, went forward, went back. So a bit of slaughterhouse fiving here, but you know, through all of that, we got the idea that you've lived a lot of life, you've had a lot of setbacks, a lot of push forward.

You're in a new phase of your life moving forward, figuring things out. What has been the ultimate life lesson that you've cultivated from all of that? I know you've shared a little bit here and there along the way, but what would be the, the one main one that has really stuck with you and that you're implementing even to this day?

You know, it's so easy just to sound like a Nike commercial and say, just do it. It, it, it is just that. But I know your audience won't accept that because, you know, it's, it's too simplistic. But, um, at the very minimum, I would say, the thing that I've learned is find someone who is one step further down the road from where you're trying to go.

Like, I can't get Tony Bins on the phone. I don't have that, you know, I don't have that kind of juice, but. If you're a podcaster like me with a hundred, I guess of today, 178 subscribers, I need to talk to somebody like you. Um, because you're, you, you know, maybe you're even multiple steps beyond me. And that advice that you gave to me was, you know, that was gold, which I've never heard anybody say it the way you said it before, and as soon as you said it, I, I mean, it was like a hammer hit me.

I was like, I know this guy's telling the truth. I know this is right. So you're doing exactly what, what I'm talking about right here. Find somebody who's a little further down the road that's still relatable, that can still break down the process of how they got there, because Tony Robbins doesn't remember sleeping on his friend's couch.

I mean, I mean, he's got some vague memory, but he can't kind of get me the recipe from, from, to move to point A to to B. 'cause he's all the way down at Z. So that's it. I, you know, don't be afraid to ask. And I encourage people, connect with me on YouTube, on LinkedIn, Facebook. I'll tell you. Anything you want to know for free.

'cause I'm just selling books. That's it. You know, if you buy a book, that's great. If you don't buy a book, I'm probably gonna help you anyway because I want to be that Mike Drive for you. I want to be that Robert Lane for you. Uh, and if enough of us just team up and come together, we'll, we'll reach our goals.

We can't do it alone. So the lesson would be reach out to a mentor that's at least one step ahead of you. And number two, we can't do it alone. We have to grow our network. We have to, um, deliver value to our friends and, and help each other grow. It can't just, most people get on social media, they get on podcasts.

It's me, me, me, me. And then when you, uh, so graciously, um, ask me to come on the show. I subscribed to your channel. I followed you on LinkedIn. Uh, I looked at you on, um, Facebook, but I think it was only Ad Friends, but I couldn't follow you. So anyway. Out of respect outta that reciprocity for your invitation.

I'm gonna follow your stuff, I'm gonna engage with your material. And I think if more people did that, that understood that ebb and flow in that give and take, we'd be fine. We don't need thousands of people. We need about a hundred really, you know, or 36 to a hundred really good friends that just keep pushing and we'll break through that algorithm because if enough people are liking and sharing and we'll break through, algorithm can't stop us if we team up.

So that's my message. Right. My thing is I always wait until after the interview to do all that in case we have a bad interview. Now I gotta unsubscribe the channel. So, no, I, I genuinely wait, especially because I've, you know, I've subscribed to someone and then they're a no show and ghost and it's like, okay, thanks for nothing.

But, um, yeah, I think an important distinction I want to make for some people, because this is a big issue in our industry, make your coworkers so people who are guests on your podcast, vice versa. Make your coworkers, cheerleaders, not clients, because so many people try to client ize their, if that making up words here.

So many people try to client ize their, uh, coworkers. You know, I've had people who guests on my show and then try to get me as a client for their a thousand dollars, $5,000 program or something. I think it's insulting and disrespectful and we can't. Just buy each other's products and stuff. But I think that online engagement, that that support, that collaboration is so important.

So cheerleaders versus clients, I think that's an important distinction to make because some people get the wrong idea. I like that you said battle buddy. And um, I have to agree with the always seeking help. And the issue is people want to do on their own, especially people like you and me who have unofficial, un undiagnosed ODD and we're entrepreneurs and we want to do it all by ourself.

But I'll tell you from personal experience, when I got out and I decided to make my podcast a business, 'cause it was originally just gonna be a comedy with a couple of nuclear operators and then I was the only one there, so it was a solo act. And so we ended up pivoting into mental health. But you know, I paid a bunch of fees and business creation, um, things that in, I found out in my state, I actually wait for veterans.

But I paid them because I didn't do research, I didn't speak to anyone about it. I did very minimal research and I didn't go to a veteran business owner and say, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a business as a veteran. You've already done it. Are there any, you know, waivers that you know about for people like you and I?

You know, a lot of the podcasting lessons I've learned was through trial and error, but there's so many conferences for podcasting. There's so many podcasters that all I had to do was reach out and say, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a podcast. I would love to, you know, avoid a pitfalls. And one of the things that I've started saying that might make a T-shirt for is I shared on an event the other day that our look back is their look ahead.

And so. What I believe is an important part of mentorship in curating the new generations is providing our look backs. And that doesn't mean everyone's gonna listen to it. There's plenty of things my parents told me that they went through that I was like, you know, ignoring that. And then I went through it and I was like, oh man, I should have listened.

And I doubt will ever get to a point where there's not a generation that says, man, I should have listened to my parents. I think we're always gonna be hit with that. But I think once you're past that part of your, your life where you can develop that mindset to ask for the look forward rather than have it put on you.

I think that's a big thing, is seeking, rather than being told you'll have a better understanding and implementation of it. You know, and, and that's kind of goes into as well as a parent when it comes to the faith and parenting. I always put forward teach don't tell. And that's a big thing I learned in the military as well as you get told you don't get taught.

And there are people in the military who think if they curse at you extremely and aggressively and tell you to do something, you'll suddenly know how to do it. And some people do that as parents as well, and as mentors. So I think asking, and I think one thing that you and I have hit on a lot is alignment.

Make sure you're asking people who are aligned with your mission and goal. People who have done it aren't always aligned with you. There are people who have done it through their own methods, which may not be aligned with you. People who have done it. Listen, I've talked to some people who ranked up in the military, you know, how they did it by screwing over other people by, by being dirty.

So make sure that alignment is there when you ask. But I, I think that's great advice is to ask for advice, you know, and that's why I always try to cultivate life lessons from the guests on my show to provide that to people because people are afraid to ask or they don't know to ask. And sometimes, again, the classic saying, you don't know what you don't know.

And so I think it's important to always be intellectually curious and always get the other side. But Mr. Gaines, I think it's been a great conversation. I do wanna leave people with, um, who should read your book. I know you've mentioned it a couple times here, so just really who would benefit from it and who should read it?

Sure. I would say anybody who's, um, they wanna break away. You feel like you're a prisoner of the cubicle and you want to escape, but you have no idea where to start. And, um, there's a lot in there about. And I'll just tell you too, so, so the book is really good if, if you have no idea what to start. So I talk about entire business concepts.

I talk about, um, how to launch products, how to launch services with money, with no money. It goes through, through a whole lot of different scenarios. Again, the book is mainly just about how to come up with the idea, what happens after that. There's a lot of great books about that, but there's, and I haven't found any, there's no book about how to create the idea from scratch so that, that book answers that question.

Um, and the follow up book, which has no title just yet, is gonna be about LinkedIn and marketing. So really it's almost like a two part thing. Once you get the idea, then you can. You know, start to leverage those relationships to bring it into fruition. But yeah, anybody who wants to break free, but not sure, uh, what to do, that book, you go through it, you'll, you'll have a few ideas.

And I'll also tell you that your, your first idea is probably don't hang all of your hopes on it. Look at me. I started with a mastermind group, launch a podcast, then the book, then, you know, and, and next year you might see me online. I might be doing something else because I'm gonna keep trying. You. I might, I might descend into total madness and give into the Instagram, but model thing, you know, who, who knows, you know, but, uh, right man in a studio.

But there, there is, there are good ideas and there's bad ideas. And I'll give you just one tidbit from the book that might help your audience understand how, how powerful the content in the book. Could be, most of the time when pe, 'cause people know I'm kind of in that space, so I get pitched ideas all the time.

Robert, you know, I have this idea about this and that and the other. And most of the time the ideas that come to me are competitive ideas. So like the, the whole reason why the book came together is because this guy wanted to start a, basically a miniature version of Amazon. He was gonna have 20 products, 20 to 30 products, and then he was gonna hire all these influencers and then he was gonna scale it up from there.

Pretty good idea in, in theory. And then when we got in, we realized, you know, we couldn't buy the products cheap enough for him to make money and the influencers to make money. But comp, having a competitive product is the hardest thing in the world. There's ways where you can have complimentary products and companion products.

That's much easier. Nobody talks about it. The book is full of it. Then I give examples about. Let's say you're, you're into sports and you're gonna go to, well, let's just say, yeah, let's just say a sports event. You're gonna go watch some college football. Well, I talk about what people buy before, during, and after they buy those football tickets, and I get people thinking that to engender this diagonal thinking where everybody else is just, how do I do a new McDonald's hamburger?

How do I break all of that down? What if you already know a transaction is gonna happen? How do you get before that transaction? What do you buy before you buy tickets? Well, if it's an outdoor event, you might buy a scarf, you might buy a sweater with the team. You might be thinking about branding, and that's not gonna be done on the ticket site.

So you can position yourself as that before the, this particular purchase. And then what are you gonna buy at the same time you buy that event ticket, you're gonna buy parking. So then you can get, coordinate your marketing with the people, you know. So any, anyway, I won't go on a deep dive on here, but there's some pretty intense, you know, it's a very, it's a, you know, I'm not gonna say it's, I'm not the greatest writer in the world and I think anybody that reads the book would agree, but the material is solid.

I stand by the material. My ability to write like Hemingway is not there. But the information is, is, is quite impactful for sure. And we're gonna have that in a description below for people to check out. As well as once you're linked in, you know, guru guide comes out, we'll add that in there as well for people to check out.

I think, uh, that is super important and they go hand in hand together, especially if you're trying to grow a business or you have this idea now you need to build a network for it. So I think they work together very well. They compliment, they don't compete. So Mr. Gaines, it's been great talking to you.

I'll have you on the show again for sure. And you know, I look forward to seeing what you do in life and I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. I appreciate you and I, I invite you to come on my podcast as well. We can get deeper on any of those topics you want. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day.