Ignite Your Business: Website Design, Messaging Mastery, & Navigating AI Search

Today, I reunite with Lori Lyons- whom I met on the New Media Cruise (formally, Podcasters Cruise)- to talk about what it really takes to “ignite your business” in a world full of copy-and-paste websites, AI-generated content, and shrinking attention spans. We get into why a website still matters—whether you’re an entrepreneur, coach, creative, or artist—and how your website should function as a living business card that builds trust and credibility.

Lori breaks down how she had to pivot from traditional marketing and packaging into digital marketing, WordPress, and eventually website design after being laid off. Through this, we discuss markets shift, how technology changes consumer behavior, and why your ability to adapt matters more than ever.

Together, we also get into the importance of messaging. Ms. Lyons explains why so many business owners lose clients simply because they aren’t clear about what they do, who they serve, and what problems they solve. We cover common branding mistakes, why “symptoms” often sell better than labels, and how clarity beats cleverness when people are deciding whether to listen, click, or buy.

We also talk professionalism and presentation—especially for podcast guests and high-ticket offers. Ms. Lyons shares why showing up polished isn’t vanity, it’s credibility, and how basic standards can influence trust, authority, and client decisions.

lorilyons.me

Website: https://coupleonukes.com

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and today are you ready to ignite your business? That's what we're gonna be talking about. That's super important and I love talking about website design, especially with all these copy and paste AI websites, how that landscape is changing.

There's a lot going on right now and I get personally frustrated for two reasons. One is if you pitch to me via email to be on my podcast and you don't include a website link or you don't have a website, that's both reasons. In one if you should have a website, let's just put it down. Even if you're just an artist, having an online portfolio is crucial to get picked up on the internet to have those.

It's your walking business card. It's your living business card. So we're gonna ignite our businesses today with website design among a lot of other things. Today's guest, I don't remember how, when I met her, I just remember walking out onto a balcony on a cruise ship and seeing her trying to suntan in an I obnoxiously yell, Hey everyone.

And I just disrupted the piece. And that's my earliest memory of today's guest. Ms. Lori Lyons met her on the podcasters cruise now called the New Media Cruise. And that was two years ago and three, four months, you know. So it's been, it's been a while and we are now only podcasting for the first time because I don't really follow up on real life connections because I take the online, online, online connections.

And the people in real life always say, I'll see you soon. And because time goes by like that, we're already in February and I feel like I just, you know, celebrated New Year. So, Ms. Lyons, how are you feeling? How are you doing? And could you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure, sure. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna add two addendums to that.

The first is that it's taken a while because I've canceled you like 17 times because I had a, I I couldn't talk. And finally you were like, you really wanna do this? I'm like, I really wanna do this. I can't talk. But the second thing is it wasn't just you yelled at me from the balcony, you were like directly above me.

And on the cruise ship there was on, there was no ceiling above us. And it wasn't until you yelled and I turned around and looked that I saw all the people above us. Because you're like right out in the open, you had a top bomb. Thank goodness. I did. I did. Thank goodness. Yes. It was like, well, no, no, you know, pajamas on the balcony.

Right? That's, but I was gonna go out there to record content and I looked up and there was all these non-content people who were giving me this judgmental look. Like, what is this guy doing? He's got a tripod. He's one of those. Influencers and yes. So it's hard to find a quiet spot to record sometimes.

That's for sure. It is. That's, that's the truth. That's the truth. All right, so a little bit about me. You the condensed version is former teacher went, you know, turned corporate, turned small, business turned small, business owner started my own business before entrepreneur was really a mainstream word and pe you know, just weird people work from home.

So, and that was in the mid nineties. And the business that I had, I, I sold marketing packaging to Fortune 500 companies. So that was binders and that was folders, and that was the custom stuff. And this thing called the internet came along and nobody really wanted binders and folders 'cause everything was going online.

Right. And it wasn't going anywhere. That wasn't this fad that was gonna go away. So I, you know, at that point in time I kind of came to a crossroad and said, I either need to close my business, are I need to shift it? Totally. And I just didn't wanna shift it. I was like tired of doing it. It's one of those crossroads in your life where you're like, now is the time to do something different.

So I did economy, you know, the housing economy bottomed out in 2007, so that really limited a lot of things, right? But in 2010, I started working for a digital marketing company and I knew, would I tell you. I knew nothing. I knew nothing. I mean, I could turn my computer on and I could play, you know, I was computer literate, but I wasn't savvy.

And part of my job as an account manager was walking people through, setting up their email and all this kind of stuff. So there was a big learning curve. But not only was I account manager, but I started teaching myself WordPress because we were WordPress shop. Mm-hmm. And it was kind of like I said, all right, if, if a client needed something, if I put it through the system, it could take, you know, three or four days to a week to get something done when it could be very simple.

So I learned how to do simple things so that I could take care of clients on the spot. And that just led one thing to another. And fast forward a couple of years, and I was laid off because the direction of the company moved. And they wanted somebody who was technical. And if you're on the podcast, I've got the air quotes because you can't see, but he wanted more technical, right.

What I didn't realize was I was becoming technical as over the course of the several years, and I knew a whole lot more when I started. And so when I was laid off, I had, I don't know, it's not too much time passed and I, a high school friend called me and he said, Hey, I hear you're working for a design company.

I needed a new website. And I said, well, I was laid off, but I'd be happy to build you one. It was one of those things that came out of nowhere and you think, what did I just do? Right? But I said, you know, in full transparency, I've never done one start to finish, but you know, if you're willing, I'll do it for you.

And he said. You know, that's fine. And I said, I dunno how long it'll take me. He said, I've had this one for 13 years, I think I can wait a couple of months. So I'm, I'm fine with that. And I did it and he paid me and he was a client up until, I don't know, about six months ago and sold his business and retired.

So, you know, it became a, the, the start of a beautiful friendship. And that's kind of how I got started. And it was like, this is fun. It took all the background that I had, all of the training that I had and really pulled out the marketing aspect of it. And that's one thing I, that I really enjoyed. So that's kind of where we came full circle up until about, I dunno, about a year ago.

And I started realizing that while I enjoy doing it and I will always promote the value of websites and talk about what you need, I also found that I really excelled in the messaging part of it. So I've been also doing a lot of business coaching with my clients and that is really fun too. So it's, you know, it's a little bit of, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

And you're also a podcaster, which we'll get into. Yes. Later on. Yes. So you kind of shared with us how you ignited your business there, so to speak. Yeah. I want to go back to the air quotes on the technical. Do you feel like maybe I'm reading into it too much? Do you feel like you were discriminated based on your age?

No, because he was older than I was. I, you know, I've, I've had that thought. I don't think so. I was, I think I was, in this case, truly, it was because of the direction he wanted to go, and he had not kept up with what I was doing, so his loss not mine. And it really gave me the courage to say, let me, let me go do something that I really enjoyed.

So no, good question, but I, I don't, I don't think so. I think it was more of, you know, we were a small business and you just didn't know what I was doing. Okay. Hold my beer. I'll show you. Right. Because I, I've seen a lot of, you know, when it comes to technology, assuming that because of people's ages that they don't know how to use technology as efficiently or whatever it may be.

And I've also seen just with women as well, especially like, I know when my mom was a stay at home mom for quite a while, and then when she tried to go back into the working world, it was like, well, now you're this age and you've been out of work for this amount of time. Like, there's, there's no value there.

Or like, your skills are expired, so to speak. So I've, I've seen a lot of Right, you know, workplace stuff for that, or on the opposite end, oh, you're so young. What, what could you know about this or that, even if your resume experience says X, Y, Z. So there's a lot of that. Yep. I think you have to define technology in this particular case, right?

Looking at website building and development and all the coding, which I still don't, I mean, you don't want me to code your website. You don't. That's not my strong point. So if you look at technology, what, what drives me crazy is the people who say, oh, well I'm old. I can't work Google Drive. And I have clients that are, that do that.

Mm-hmm. It's like, hello, you, if you have a business, you gotta have something. And I was, we were talking about, I was down at podcast not too long ago, and. One of the comments from the stage was the boomer that can't operate ai, or I'm like, hello, wait a minute. I, you know, I'm actually officially generation Jones.

I have, you know, but, but you know, I, I'm far more technical than a lot of the young people sitting there. So it, it really is a matter of definition, I think, and the stereotypes that we apply to that. And some of them are self-fulfilling prophecy because. A hundred percent people, you know, there are people my age who will tell you, I'm old, I can't do it.

No. It's really a cop out, an excuse. It is. Right. It's, it's a justification to not have to do something. And I think one of the issues, one of the mindsets that I don't approve of is a lot of people who are in that position and will say, well, I can just pay someone to do it for me. I can outsource, outsource, outsource.

And I know people who say outsource everything. I won't name names, but I've met people who say that. And I think how it should be is outsource after you've learned like just like how ai absolutely, you should be able to do everything. Not everything, but most stuff on your own before you have AI do. Like you look at my generation, AI came afterward, right?

So I did all the essay writing myself. Now you've got people, AI is writing the essay for them. They can't do it without it. I could do it without it. Now could I use AI to help me write an essay? I wouldn't because I'm a, you know, published writer, I'm not gonna do it. But in general, you know, it's like tools should be used to help you make something more efficient or done more easily, but you should be able to do it yourself.

And I think the same thing with outsourcing. I think everyone who's hiring a, a virtual assistant to their social media clips, you should be able to do it on your own in case anything happens. Especially, you know, you look at anything could happen, a death in the family, a, a monsoon, it could be anything.

So you should be able to set up the Zoom calls, answer the emails, and then outsource it. And that's just my personal opinion because I think self-reliance is one of the things that makes you a powerful business owner and entrepreneur. Absolutely. And not only that, but from a process standpoint, if you don't know what your process is, how are you ever gonna pass it on?

Because in today's workplace, you never know how long somebody's gonna be there. You know, you hope they're gonna be around a while if you invest the time and the money into training somebody. But you know, if those processes don't make sense or if you can't figure 'em out, then you're kind of right back where you started.

Totally agree with that a hundred percent. Especially if you get a new assistant and they're like, so what was the. Process. And you're like, I don't know, my old assistant just took care of everything. It's like, why can't take care of what? I don't know. It's your business. And then have fun reaching them.

They're, God, they're not being paid, they're not answering Right. You know? Well, and it brought, you know, when you, when you said, you know, for, to use AI for ease, you know, I, in my generation, you know, I sound like I'm a doddering old lady, but you know, I remember when microwaves came out and, you know, oh, heaven forbid microwaves.

Now it's, you know, they're commonplace. But, you know, we weren't using microwaves to totally cook our own dinner. We still had to do all the stuff. It just shortened things and made it easier. And I think that's what for AI for a lot of people is doing. And I'm thinking more of the, you know, just the generic, not the real heavy duty process AI stuff.

Right. Just where most business owners are using ai. I use it all the time. I, you know, I have so many ideas and so much things boils around in this a DHD brain that I, I have a hard time putting into organization in a way that makes sense. And that's what I use it for, is I help it, I use it to help me categorize and ideate and expand.

And then I go back in and I, I really put my, like, okay, let's do, let's add this, let's do this. Let's, great. This gave me a, an outline and a foundation. Now I go in and flush it out and, and fill it out and then I fine tune with it. So, and I, you know, it's made, made me so much better of a business person and a, and a coach and a website person because I'm able to do that.

And I think what I've seen is, especially with my father, is a great case sample. He resisted technology his whole life. 'cause he said it's evil. I don't want the change. I'm gonna refuse to learn it. And it's become a part of daily life. You kind of can't escape it unless you go autonomous country, you know?

But it's like, it's very hard not to phone. So now my dad can't do anything he does, but I have to help him operate all the time. You know, he can't even clear voicemails out. Yeah. And what I found, I, he wanted to post something on Facebook and you know, I only use it for business purposes, so I was like, I'm not the expert, but I can help you out.

And teaching him how to post a photo on there, it was maybe he had to send it from his phone to his laptop. So it was extra steps, but it was only four or five steps. And to him it was like world ending. And I say that to say a lot of people overcomplicate through irrational fear of what technology is because they have this mindset of technology is so complicated, I, I can't learn it.

And like you talk about using a Google Drive or even using ai, it's like, it can be as simple as you type in a question, just like a search engine. Yeah. But when you say you had to ask the AI versus type it into Google, people suddenly have this drastic shift of what that looks like. It's like Right, right.

Picturing in their head, they're like making up fictional scenarios that that overcomplicated and you know, sending an E when sending an email seems so complicated you don't want to do it. Yeah. And when you think it's over complicated, then even learning, you're kind of like. Biasing everything. And we do that with all kinds of stuff in life in general, you know, but especially with technology.

And I, I just wanna shift into, you talked about moving more into the marketing direction. Mm-hmm. What exactly does that mean for you and look like for you, especially in this time period where the marketing landscape is changing so much with social media, with ai, with influence, with a lot of stuff that you didn't have when you, you know, you were going through your business life.

Yeah. For me it's, I really find that my sweet spot is in messaging. Mm-hmm. And I find that a lot of business owners, they either way over complicate it or they don't speak the language that their clients speak, they're speaking their language, which doesn't always translate. And I'll give you a for example.

I have a client, or I'll give you a better example. I was at a, at a. An event several years ago, and there was a woman there who owned, who said she was in marketing. And I thought, all right, I'll, I'm wanna go connect with her. 'cause I always like, you know, it's always fun to pass things back and forth and commiserate if you need to.

And so I went up and introduced myself and I said, what do you do? She said, I help heart-centered women that are lost within their souls and yada, yada yada. That, you know, blob. And I, my eyes were crossing. And I'm like, all right, so what does that mean? And she proceeded to give me a totally revised version of that very woowoo language.

And I speak woowoo, so I, you know, I knew what she was saying, but I had no idea what she was doing with it. And so it took her three times. Finally, I said, I'm sorry. I really don't know what you do. She said, I own a website, design agency. Very simple. If you're, if you're on the podcast, you didn't see my face, but it was like, really?

It's yeah, it, it, and she was totally speaking a language that in today's world, people would turn her off. People would, you know, next, because they don't know exactly. They don't wanna have to take the time to figure out what you do. They want it clear and simple, and this is how I help. This is how I serve.

This is what I do, and this is how I can help you. People's attention spans are declining so rapidly. You know, you look at the statistics, I mean, I was confronted that my YouTube short videos were too long at 30 seconds. I need to be down to 10 to 12 seconds. And I'm like, I just can't fit a, a piece of comedy or education into 12 seconds like that.

I just is not possible from a long form conversation. You know, like, thank goodness social media added a two times speed button. I think that has saved a lot of long form content in myself included, you know, and now you can go up to four times speed. Whew. Yeah. And here's the interesting thing about that is, yes, we've all heard that, you know, we have the attention less than a goldfish of seven seconds, blah, blah, blah.

But the interesting thing is. If you have a good hook and people are listening, they will listen. And it doesn't matter if it's 10 seconds, 20 minutes, or an hour, look at Joe Rogan. They will listen if they are interested in your topic and you draw them in. So the way to do that is by keeping it simple and telling exactly what you're going to do with words that they understand.

I used the example also of, I was in a, in a weekly networking marketing group in an weekly group that networking and there was a chiropractor in there for years and he kept talking about sub, and I can't say it, but subluxation of the spine and I feel like what is ation of the spine? And I went to another networking group and the chiropractor there, she's like, I.

Your back hurt. I can fix it. That's sublux sensation. I still can't say it. Right. Right. So, but I can, if your back is wonky, I can fix your back. And I'm like, hello, who do you think I went to? Right. I went to her because I understood what she did. Now I knew what a chiropractor does. I know that they fixed back.

But tell me that, don't make me try to figure it out. And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that a lot of business owners are making. They, they're trying to be too cute and fancy and, you know, all the clever words and stuff. I've, I've done a bit of, so I don't get paid for it. But I've done a bit of, you know, devil's advocate work when it comes to people's professional type.

One of the big things is a lot of people in this creative industry that were in podcasting space and stuff make up their own titles. And sometimes they are straightforward and sometimes they are very abstract. So I've done a lot of work of asking them, and I was talking to some individuals like, tell me what you do.

And it's like, okay, now how can you reword that? Because, you know, sometimes people just struggle with articulation. Right. You know, and it's too many words, too few words, or trying to put in these fancy keywords to catch attention and they just detract from what it is. So I think it's so important, like you said, that the messaging and Yeah.

I've, I've come across some interesting titles that people have made up for themselves. And I've kind of gotten, me personally, I'm kind of over, so many people are adding the word architect or builder or all these different terms to their, to their title. And so I, I decided to have fun with it. And people were asking me about past jobs.

And I used to work at this taco restaurant. Like we only started tacos, but I would tell people I was a Spanish cuisine preparation artist, you know, like that. To give an example of like how some of these titles work, like, I think I bumped into someone who, they were a landscaper, but they said, I am a.

What was it? It was like, I am a lawn beautician and designer. You know, like, hey, you know, like that. But, you know, sometimes it works. It's just Right. Right. You talk about, would you say the biggest mistakes, like over complication or under simplification? Like what are some of the biggest messaging mistakes you're seeing?

One of the biggest messaging mistakes is not being clear who you work with. Hmm. And the, you know, we, we hear all the time about ideal client. Ideal client, and, you know, all of us marketers preach ideal client, ideal client. But one thing that they don't talk about is, is a, someone is an ideal client. If they're ready, if they're willing and they're able to work with you and ready can mean a lot of things.

Willing can mean a lot of things, but Able means they can pay you. And a lot of times we forget that as, as business owners and coaches, because we want business, we want that person to come work with us, but they have to be able to pay you. And I think that's one of the mistakes that a lot of business owners make is they're not real clear to themselves who they wanna work with because they gotta work with everybody.

We've all heard that and Right. And I'm not one of those who will sit here and say. You've gotta decide that you're gonna work with, you know, women at 55 that do this, that do this, that do that. And that's all I'm gonna work with. Because that's simply like poor business because you're you when you decide that you want, that's who your marketing message is going to.

That might be who you talk to, but you know, myself, with my website design agency, I can look at my client list and I have all kinds of clients, but the one thing that they had in common was they needed help with their messaging. And that's one thing that I'm very good. So my ideal client, air quotes, again, my ideal client was someone who didn't understand what they did in their messaging and they needed a clear way to present it to the paying public, whatever that looks like.

So that was my ideal client, not the 55-year-old women who blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that a lot of business owners make is they try to put a square. A square into a round hole and make it fit, but ready, willing, enable is a pretty simple, pretty simple way to define it.

Right? You know, I think of, well, I'll, I'll share an example without even name dropped so y'all can check out her website. But Casey McDonald, she was on the new media cruise with us. She's a coworker of mine and I was looking at her new website design and stuff and talking to her about what she does.

She's a transcendent wealth architect and her logo was a line and, you know, teal colors and stuff. And she said, I work specifically with female faith based business owners, looking to break into the seven figure category. And I said, why don't you try swapping the line with a line this, right? Because you are a, a faith-based female business owner trying to help.

Female faith-based business owners. I said the lion symbol that you have is very similar to all the testosterone boost companies, to the men masculinity mindset stuff that I've seen in looking at your website design and your logo. Initially, I definitely thought it was, you know, a very masculine thing.

So try the lion as approach. I think a lot of subtle things for, you're talking about like ideal clients is like the lion's cool, it looks cool to everyone, but it gives a more masculine vibe. So even stuff like that I've noticed, you know, so I think it's really important when you talk about, especially if you're very specifically one gender or the other.

So I think that's important too. And like when you do messaging, do you help companies with their physical branding as well in terms of colors, logos and stuff like that? Are you focused mainly on the, the message itself? Yeah, I do to a certain extent. It depends on where they come in. And a lot of my, when I first started out, a lot of my clients were new business owners and didn't have that.

So I, you know, I don't propose to be a full scale branding company, but I can do it. We do it on a level enough that makes sense for their website that they don't have to go and redo it. But so much of it involves around the messaging and, excuse me, a lot of times I just say. Pick colors that work for you.

I mean, we can spend weeks and months and doctorates on color psychology. Oh yeah. Is it really gonna matter for that? That business coach or that coach who wants to work with this audience? Probably not. They're not gonna go, oh, their logo is red. That's high energy. That's gonna turn me off. Although I do love the, the analogy of the lion and the lioness.

I think that is brilliant. So very good job there. So, I mean, it's, it's simple things like that. Thank you. I did it for free. I work for free. There you go. There you go. I charging people. But yeah, but I think there's, there's a big part of that that we overthink and overcomplicate and, you know, websites could be the same way.

A website should authenticate you. It should tell what you do, who you serve. And when I talk to clients about who they serve and the problems that they solve, it's not. Just the problems. It's the symptoms of the problems. That's where the money is. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, I had a, a, a client come to me and he said, I work with clients that have imposter syndrome.

And I said, all right, did they come to you and say, I have imposter syndrome? He's like, well, no, but that's what his marketing said. I work with, if you have imposter syndrome, I can help you, you know, a lot of different ways. But I said, what are the symptoms of imposter syndrome? He said, well, they procrastinate.

They're not comfortable with the message. They change things around over and over again because they're worried they're not getting it right. They're perfectionists, they're, you know, there was a, a, a list about six or seven things, and I said, if you talk about that, are you procrastinating because you're not sure of the direction that you're gonna go?

That I can say, oh, that's me. But if you say, I, do you have imposter syndrome? Like, oh, I don't have imposter syndrome. Although we all say we do. You know, that's gonna be something. I'm like, no, that's, that's not what I have. You know, so show me what the symptoms are. And that's where the gold lies for a lot of, a lot of businesses is look at the symptoms, not just the problems.

And address those. I agree a hundred percent. You know, because a lot of us are in denial or don't even know that there's a title associated with what we're doing. Right. You know, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing the word burnout. So it would be like, what are you experiencing that could be because of burnout and, and how to alleviate those.

So I, I think that's, those are two great examples right there. And I think, okay. There's another whole podcast episode we could have about words that I think should be banished in 2026. Right, right. There's. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of, I, I've heard a lot of words really overused Yes. Or changed so much in the, the landscape recently.

And, you know, unfortunately, like AI puts out a lot of words over and over again. Like, I, like if it says we're gonna dive into, I know is ai, no one dives into stuff anymore, but it's like, yeah, it's the, the worst and actually clarity. Kind of going, right. That's kind of going into what I want to ask you next, which is I'm giving a talk on website design in July, uhhuh, unless it gets rescheduled or whatever.

But one of the things I talked about, which is just, this is my opinion, I, I'm gonna be curious of yours, is I'm like, because of the way AI has shifted, everyone can now have SEO optimized, you know, search engine optimization. It goes back to what you do, which is the message and the branding is more important than the technical side, because now basically what I said is when everyone's SEO optimized, no one is right.

Right. If we all have full search engine optimization through ai and all our websites are now competing on the same technical level, for lack of better words, it comes back to which website presents it the most efficiently. And, and would you say that's kind of what you're seeing? Yes, if I'm understanding the question, yes.

And we don't necessarily want to optimize for SEO anymore. That old model is dead. We wanna optimize for the AI search engines. You know, the Google when, if you notice now when you go to Google ads don't come up first anymore. Mm-hmm. The AI generated responses come up, whether you like it or not, because I know, I know so many anti AI people, you can't even escape it now even.

Right. Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, all have forced an AI into it now. Oh yeah. Oh, I don't know Snapchat because I was banned from Snapchat. Oh. I just didn't really use it much. And I felt like it was kind of like a high schooler thing. And I, you know, it's interesting. I saw people in their twenties and thirties and forties using it, and it's like that's, I don't know, it just feels like it's.

You know, like how they say Facebook is for old people and Snapchat's for young people to see the cross. It is just weird. Yeah. But how do you get banned from Snapchat? That might be an episode on his son. I was banned by my son, who is, he is now 28, so at the time he was in high school and I kept, he, that's how he, you know, I can message him and it, oh, okay.

He didn't know this, but it also had the tracking thing on him, so I could see it was so, he didn't realize it was turned on, and I did, but every time I try to message him, I, it, I just never could. I, I never cared enough to get the hang of it. I would just, I know that I could, could message him and finally he's like, mom, just shut the thing off.

You're like, I would message him like 10 times, I would say, and I, you know. Fairly social media savvy. I just could, Snapchat just did not work with, with what I'm hearing though, is something very vital, which is you're the selfie queen. Is that correct? Did it teach you how to take really good selfies? No, it did not.

Okay. You weren't doing the, you know, the snap, you weren't No. All that dark face with the No, no duck face. I was, yeah. Yeah. That. I haven't heard that in a long time actually. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's yeah, thank God. That's, that's one of the trends that went away, thank goodness. Yeah. The, the, yeah. I mean, there was a time where everyone was doing in every picture, and I hate the, they do the little bunny ears over your, your back of your head as like a photo bomb.

I always thought that was so stupid, and I just, I don't know. I hate it. It take, it takes me so many times to get a good looking picture. Then someone ruins it. It's like, now I gotta go through 20 more photos and 15 minutes opposing. Forcing a smile. Well, now you can, now you can AI 'em and cut it all out.

So I will say the cutout feature is nice, you know? Well, and, and it is funny 'cause I was, I've been working on a podcast episode ca called Trends.

I want to go away in 2026. Mm. And the one, the biggest one that drives me crazy is the puffy ma microphone to the mouth. Mm. And I was watching a, a, a reel the other day and she was in a home store, like picking up things to show you, but she had one hand holding the puffy microphone. I'm like. Put the dang microphone down and pick up the vase with two hands, you know?

She was, I was like, I dunno if I've seen that, you're gonna drop that. Oh, it's, and I don't wanna watch it. If I do see it, it's everywhere. The you'll know it when you see it. A lot of them, their people are, I, I'm not. Do you like as SMR, do you know about as MR Tell me what it is. No, that's where they have the microphone real close and they tap into it, or they eat food real close, like the whisper, like in your ear audios that they do a lot of microphone close to their mouth for that stuff.

No, I'm one of those people who mouth those noises make me angry. Yes. They, they're enraged. And there, there's a syndrome, there's a name for that. Yes. It's a really complicated word. Like the chiropractor stuff you were talking about. Yes. Sub sensation. Yeah. But there is a, there is some, because I always thought it was just weird, but it just drives me crazy when people do that or the, the tapping on the products.

Especially when the, the female pe. Oh, with the nails, the acrylic nails. They, the big long nails. Yes. Quick chopper. You tap on a box before they open it. I hate, yes. I was scrolling through and some, some guy and his family were like crunching on chicken wings and other stuff. Right. In the microphone. And it just tell you that's the terrible way to have a business dinner is to sit there and there's someone next to you.

Just, I don't, I don't get it. Exactly. You know, my, my dad, the more he would drink, the more he would eat with his mouth open, like very loudly. And it just, it would drive me crazy. Yes. You know, so there's a lot of trends that are just not so good and Yeah. You know, we. And I love the fact that on, you know, some of the reels I'm watching now, and maybe it's just 'cause of the generation that I am, but I'm getting a lot of etiquette.

People are coming on and really doing some, some very strong things around etiquette and how we need to bring Yes. Just basic etiquette back. And I'm like, good. You know, some of 'em are a little like, but some of right. I found out there is a special tool to remove the grapes from the vine. Really? Yes.

There's like a little fancy fork to like, take them off of the thing, which I never knew, you know, but I never knew that. I, I talk a lot about how we've seen the destruction of sit down family dinners like so many people. It's so weird because I grew up in a household. We always sat down the whole family.

Oh yeah. At x, y, z time. Typically four or five o'clock. 'cause my dad thought he was 80 and you know, we would eat super early and that was that, you know, we had conversation. Yeah. And then, you know, when I was dating, I would go over to my girlfriend's house and their family was like, everyone grabs their own dish and sits in their own room or does their own thing.

And it like, oh wow. Yeah, it was weird. Or we have dinner, half of us are gonna have it on the couch, the other half are gonna be standing in the kitchen. And it's like, I don't know, it's just. I personally very value the time of a family all getting together and sitting down. And I think it also helps prepare you for the adult world.

You know, I've actually had episodes on how the shift in family game night culture has set children up to have poor sportsmanship like rages and fits because they're not learning sportsmanship at home because a lot of families aren't doing game nights or board games or real games. Maybe they do stuff on their computer and so then they're going to, whatever it is at school, they've never lost before, and then they, they throw a tantrum.

So there's some crazy studies out there. And of course, yeah, participation, prizes or whole conversation on its own, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we we had an only child and I had, I had him late in life. I was almost 40 when I had him. So we were older and, and I was laughing with somebody the other day. I said, it's probably a good thing because it gave me patience that I probably would not have had, you know, 15 years right before when all my friends were having kids.

But we always, you know, we never treated him like a baby. Like we didn't baby talk to him if we had dinner, he, he was expected to sit at the dinner table. He never was allowed to bring game boys and, you know, the PlayStation? Mm-hmm. PS twos or whatever to the table. He had to have conversation and that went around and he's the only grandchild that lives here.

So he was around adults all the time, and it was, I don't know, he was maybe 14 or 15. Of course, he would complain about it 'cause all of his friends got to do it, but. We were out to dinner and there was a, a table that was next to us and the adults were on one end, and the other end were like four kids.

There were about, you know, I don't know, young teenagers and all of 'em were on their phones. All of them were, were not. Right. One of 'em was engaging with each other, and he looked over at me, he said, okay, I get it now. I'm like, yes, score. That's a, you know, that's the mom moment that you're like, yes, we did something right.

Mm. But, but yeah, it's, it's, I think it's a huge problem. Yeah. And, and then it was the opposite of that. So like, when I was growing up, like people would come and compliment my parents on how, how well behaved me and my sisters were at the table because like other little kids would just be running around screaming.

And I never understood that. And I guess it's hard for me to see as the, as the kid who was made, but like, I never had the. People will say maybe, 'cause I was, you know, my parents disciplined us, but like, I never had the urge to run around. Right. Right. And if I did, I guess there would've been consequences.

But I, like, I never even felt the urge. I guess I was raised before dis like, it's not about even discipline. It was like I was raised like, that is wrong. Why would you want to do that? You know? Exactly. So it's, and I, I've seen that where, you know, people just, their, their children are just, do whatever. And I've seen the opposite end, like you said, where they quiet their children by giving them electronic devices and then there, this is real, there are children who cannot go to the bathroom or eat or go in the car without it.

And I knew a 2-year-old who needed the tablet on the back of the car, seat on, otherwise she would scream the entire car ride. Yeah. Because she had gotten used to it. So it's just so damaging to see stuff like that. Yeah. You know, it was like, and we've had a whole conversation with that, but I want to get to.

Something that I feel is important that I feel like I shouldn't have to say, but I do, which is talking about your message, talking about present, how you present yourself to your clients. It goes down to also, I've seen podcasts where the guest has no microphone, terrible lighting, you know, missing just the basics, and they're, they're asking and pitching a business program or a coaching program for, let's say five grand a month, or a hundred thousand dollars or $20,000.

And it's like, you want me to pay you $5,000 and you're here in a, a hoodie and you know, you've got, you're speaking into your laptop, or the worst is you're on your phone portrait mode in the corner of the room, and it's like. When you pitch and present, like you need to, to a degree play. I, in fact, I had a financial expert on the show who said, yeah, I drove a beat up car because it was efficient, but I started to lose clients because I'm pulling up in this raggedy car.

I had to get a nice looking car because that was trust in me. It was trust, authority, building all that. So I'd love to talk a little bit about that conversation. And I know shout out lady Jen du Plessis is very passionate about how to appear as a good podcast guest. And I used to look at her and Kimberly Spencer, who were putting out these books and programs on how to be a good podcast guest.

I said, who would ever need that? And then as a podcast host and, and watching podcasts, I said, oh, some people actually don't know the bare minimum, right? Right. Yeah. It, it's, I think it, a lot of it goes back to, you know, we were talking about manners and stuff. It goes back to just basic professionalism.

Mm-hmm. And I think a, I think that we've lost a lot of that. Yes. I think we have lost a lot of that. And I think part of that, you know, maybe we can, we can blame some of it on COVID and the casualness now that's in the, in the office atmosphere. Right. And you know, for me, I grew up old school, you know, in that now, now am I sitting here having this interview, you know, dressed from the top, you know, what is it?

You have pants on, right? I have, I do have pants on. Yes. But they are, that's one out of two of us, which is 50% of us no etiquette. Yeah. It's cold. So I've got on, I've got on sweats, but I wouldn't dream of coming on without my hair being done, or my makeup being done and, you know, and presenting, because I'm representing not only myself, but my business.

Mm-hmm. I don't want somebody to think I'm unprofessional. Could be a a million dollar mistake. Exactly. It can, it can. And I, and I see that a lot. I've, I've been, there's a, a woman that I follow that I, I, she's a lovely person and she comes on and no makeup. She, I'm like, and she wants to get some heavy duty clients.

I'm like, honey, if there's, there's no effort put in how you present yourself, what kind of effort are you gonna put into my business? That's exactly, yeah. Yeah. It's all, but I'm, I'm hoping that that's coming around a little bit. I hope that people are starting to see that maybe there is some pride and appearance and pride in, in that professionalism that you have.

'cause I think that's important. If I have to look at two different people, all things being equal, I'm gonna go to the one who's gonna be, who's gonna show me that they're more of a professional. Right. And that's part of it is dress. A hundred percent. And I think that's part of, you know, the, the messaging you're giving and it's the idea of like, yes, we're on a podcast, but I also assume that every podcast I go on is gonna be video format as well.

If not video format, then maybe social media clips. If neither, you know, what did it cost me to still look good anyway? Right. In case that they did use it. And I think this idea of, well, the YouTube performance of podcast is not as drastic as the audio only side, but you know, again, it is like, it could be what costs you that high ticket climb all because you didn't want to comb your hair.

Now I put on a hat so I don't have to comb my hair, but you know, I, I think it's, you know, it's Steve Wright and I talked about like. Sh show up as you would in real life, as if it was a real business meeting. And I've actually seen interviews where job interviewers said, stand up. You know? Yeah. Yeah. There there was one.

This is unbelievable. The guy was lying down in bed and had like, put his laptop on, on, on the ceiling, and they said, are you laying down? He said, no, I'm standing up. And they're like, drink water right now. And you know, they, they tried to test him. Yeah. But yeah, it's just like, it's so simple and I think, you know, there's a lot of that.

And this goes beyond podcasting to real life too. Yeah. You know, even the most casual events, you know, it's like I show up, you know, a certain way to even the small gatherings, it doesn't matter how casual it is and there's always new people, I think, you know, if, let's say it's podcast or podcast moving, even if you go every year, like there's not a point where I feel like you can just be like, okay, I'm, I'm done.

I don't have to do my branding anymore. I don't have to do my marketing anymore. Like, your message should always be there. But I think it's just the bare minimum. And I think one of the things is like when someone sees one person doing it and they happen to have success, now it's like, oh, well that guy showed up to a podcast in a hoodie and he made, you know, x, y, z results, so I'm gonna do it.

And I think it's kind of contagious. Yeah. I think it's contagious when one person slacks off, other people feel justified to do it. And so we see this ripple effect and it's much harder in the opposite direction of, wow, you know, Lori and Mr. Whiskey were dressed nice, so you know what? We're gonna come rocking to the nines as well.

It's, it takes so much more energy to bring back. Than it is to take away. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, and I've, I've laughed about this before and I said, you know, when you're, when you're as well known as Gary V and you have his influence and you have his business, then you can dress in the holy T-shirt and the ratty jeans, nobody's gonna care.

Right. But, you know, that's him. But for most of us, we can't do that. You know, and, and seeing, I, I've been on, on some of the business cruises before, when people come to the meetings and their bathing suits, especially women with their, you know, coverups on, and you can see the mm-hmm. Like, you're still at a business meeting.

We've seen some people barefoot. Yeah. And I will say, I think, yes, flip flops at at least some flip flops, please. You know, a no shoes, no shirt, no service that. I Did you ask 'em? I totally didn't get why they were doing that. It was about freedom and rebellion. So I did it, but I wanna say making a statement and just being like, oh, I don't have to wear shoes, so I'm not going to, or two different things.

Yeah. You know? So I guess if you're making a statement and that's your branding, then that's you. But for me, you know, it's like, it, it's just, I find it interesting, you know, I think there's, there's a time and place. Yeah. I just think how many people walk around that and how nasty do your feet get? If you're gonna be rebellious, I'm gonna be rebellious someplace else.

It's not quite so. Right. Well, you know, it's interesting, you and I were talking before Mike about the Jersey shore. My dad, he, he's a, a character for sure. And you know, he has a bad acid reflux and he would spit on the boardwalk all the time and there was people walking barefoot and he's like, he wouldn't make fun of him.

He goes, so I'm spit on on the boardwalk. The seagulls are crapping. There's gum, there's food, there's. So much pollution and people are walking barefoot. I, I dunno, for me, I follow a rule on the beach. I'm barefoot and that's about it. Yeah. And, but once I get to the place, I'll barefoot Right. On the, when I'm in the sand, you know?

Yes, yes. Or people that go bath barefoot on a, on an airplane and go to the bathroom. Really? Oh, Naby. Yes. I have not seen that. And I, I wouldn't do that. Even, like, I don't even wanna take my shoes off on a ba on an airplane. Well, I was thinking about the the waterpark bathrooms, or, or I've seen people go barefoot into the waterpark bathrooms.

They're like, I'm going back in the water. I'm like, yeah, the water I'm swimming in. Right. Put some shoes, huh. You know, wash your feet. Yeah. It's like, you know, I think the simple rule is just think about it. People, you know, there's a place to be rebellious. There's a place to, you know, to be branded. There's a place to do all that.

But just think about what you're doing and, and you know, I know a lot of people don't wanna live their life by what other people think, but. If you're in a business and you're promoting your business, you do have to think about it at a certain extent. 'cause you never know when you're gonna meet that next big client, you know?

Yeah. They could be in the, you know, they could be the person in front of you at the bathroom, at the waterpark and like, you're in there and you're Neal. Feet. Yeah. But to get back on track. Well, you mentioned podcasting quite a bit, and I mentioned that you're also a podcaster.

So I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about your podcast and where that kind of fell into your website, designing and marketing. Yeah. My podcast is called the Midlife Business Academy, and I rebranded it back in September from the Encore Entrepreneur, which is how I started. And I had started, I thought about doing a podcast like.

In 2019 and there was a, an organ, there was a, an event put on by a gentleman named Steve Cher called The New Media Summit. Or New Media New Media something. Right. And it was a really good event. One of the best events. It was full of energy. And that's where I met, in fact, that's where I met the people who run the podcast crews originally.

I met Michael there and I had gone just to, to learn about podcasting for my clients. 'cause I had a couple clients who were kind of tossing the idea around. And I went down there and I met so many cool people and I thought, well, this would be kind of interesting to have a podcast. So I started thinking about it and then, you know, other things got in the way.

And a lot of it was just self-doubt. And I don't, you know, what am I gonna do? And how, you know, process number one thing that stops podcasters. And a lot of the, what would've been the best artists and authors in the world is just not starting. Yeah. It's not starting. And. So when I finally decided how I wanted to do my format, 'cause I was, you know, you're getting all kinds of opinions and oh my gosh, you know, your head's spinning.

And I finally decided my purpose in starting my podcast was to promote because I knew at some point I wanted to, to morph into business coaching was to start talking about my expertise and to show my expertise, which is hard to do from a website design standpoint. It's kind of a hidden skill, a hidden thing that you do unless people talk about it.

So that's what I wanted to do. So I decided to invite guests on, and so my format was I would drop two episodes a week, I would interview a guest on a Facebook Live because number one, it made me do it. It kept me accountable because it was alive and I announced it. So that was one of the things too, is I'll just put it off for next week.

I'll put it off for next week. So my procrastination and Apostoc syndrome talking about symptoms of imposter syndrome kept coming up. So I did that. And then my second episode of the week would be, I would talk about whatever and teach or do content around whatever the guest and I talked about. So for example, my very first episode ever was one of my good friends who's a YouTuber.

We came on and talked about using YouTube. So then the, the episode that came on right after that, episode number two, dropped 'em both in the same, in the same day, was all about how to use YouTube in your business and, you know, strategies around using YouTube. Okay. And so I did that for almost two years and worked with a gentleman who said, you know, you really, if you're going to do.

To use your podcast to promote your business, you really ought to make yourself the expert. And he recommends 75, 25, 70% you content, 25% guest. Right. And by then I was kind of like, you know, I was meeting people, but you kind of worked through everybody that you know. 'cause at that point that was a hundred and something episodes.

So right now I could go back and fill up another year with guests, but at that point I was kind of, so I'm like, you know, I'm kinda, I'm ready to do just solo. So I did solo for a while and then just really felt led to change that name from the Unco entrepreneur. Into something that was more SEO found because I was do, I had been putting all this work into it and doing all of this, but I wasn't getting downloads.

I wasn't getting a lot of people listening to it 'cause they couldn't find it. Encore entrepreneur is not something. So that somebody was searching for, on Apple podcast, you're saying Encore like, Encore. A second performance of a show. Yes. So second act, you're coming back for the encore? Yes. And that was supposed to represent like the midlife bounce back.

Yes. The midlife bounce back. You're coming back for your second act. It catchy. You know, there's again that light. Nobody, it, it makes sense. Actually, you explain it right now. I'm like, wow, that's genius. Don't wanna to explain it. Yeah. You don't wanna have to explain it. Right. And I remember having a, a conversation with my business coach years before where we were.

I said, you know, if you look around, this is a market that is not served. Look around this room. At the time we had 150 people in this program and probably over half of 'em were, you know, gray hair, no hair, bald. Said, so there's a huge market out there of people in their fifties and up that are still working.

The fastest growing market of entrepreneurs are gen exits. You know, the, those that are Wow. 1980 or 1965 to 1980 birth, and, you know, nobody's servicing, or they are, they're servicing as they're, they're teaching them like they're 30. Hmm. So that, that's how the whole thing kind of came about. So then I, I decided in September, I worked toward rebranding it to the Midlife Business Academy.

'cause I, I talk primarily to midlife business owners. It doesn't mean that if you listen to an episode, you wouldn't get something out of it. But my marketing is for, and that's who I, who I do it for. I keep things simple. I uncomplicate things and talk about, I'm talking a lot around the, the, the. What's behind your business and what's, and I'm trying really hard not to say the word mindset, but that is, is that one of the overused words?

That's one of those words, yeah, that's one of those words is overused words, but it's one of the, you know, but what's behind the business? What are you really wanting to accomplish? And. Are you wanting to do it in that hustle culture mentality, or are you just wanting to do it as a, you know, a three day a week business?

Which is perfectly fine because a lot of, you know, a lot of business owners at that point, they've either retiring or they're, they've been rift or they're, they can't get another job. We talked about that a little bit earlier, that they just can't find jobs at their age bracket. Right. And so they go to the business because that's all that they've got to.

So that's a different mindset than somebody that is, is, you know, retired and living off of a pension from their business or, you know, have a, have a good, you know, a good retirement account and they just want some supplemental money. So, so I rebranded it and wanted to do something that was very, here we go, the SEO Friendly, because people are searching for midlife business.

People are searching for you know, those terms that are related to that midlife business owner. You know, how to grow my midlife business, how to be a midlife business owner, and that's where I come up now. And my, my, I talk to coaches and consultants primarily. And so my title is the Midlife Business Academy, and then I have a subtitle that goes with it that really talks to who it is, and that's searchable.

I can't tell you what it is 'cause I change it all the time. I tweak it and tweak it and I can't even tell you what it is right now 'cause I've just tweaked it. But it's, you know, something along the lines of business tips and strategies for coaches for midlife age coaches and consultants or something like that.

And somewhere in there I've got entrepreneur, 'cause that's also a term that search. So that's kind of where the, the podcast has come and I'm now at, I'm recording this week. I'm recording episode 3 21, so. Wow. Yeah. And that rebrand was this past September or the year before? This past September, yeah. Okay.

So I, 'cause when you said your first name, I was like, that sounds kind of familiar. Yeah. You know, I think you, you really lucked out. One of the things that I think is a concern for a lot of new podcasters especially, is the competitiveness in the overlap of names. You know, I know the lovely Diana de she does the an ageless life, right?

Yes. And then we're talking about that market like midlife reset or ageless after 50, living after 50. Bold, big, bold, beautiful life after 50. Like you look at the issue is the competitiveness now of names. Now I lucked out and no one wanted a couple of Ns, but it's funny, I, I've been thinking of changing that name.

Maybe Woo. But add a subtitle. Add a subtitle, right. Well, that's what I did. I added, because that's what we did with Diana. Diana is, is a client. We added a subtitle, the Midlife Reset colon. Here's who it's for. So yeah, it's her. Because I'm a I'm learning dance. That's one of my goals of. 2026 is to learn salsa and tango and the worm.

I don't, were you there when I did the worm? Uhuh? Oh, okay. Yeah, no, we laugh because I'm the, you know, I'm the early bird, so she's out dancing on the cruise and I'm like, in bed lights out at 10 o'clock. Oh yeah, yeah. Because I would ask her, I was like, where's, where's your other half? And she's like, sleeping.

I'm like sleeping. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But no. Yeah, we were out at the, the dance club and I attempted to do the worm. And funny, you know, Diana being a dance instructor had, well her feedback was just a giggle and a look away. So I think I need some practice on, on that. But yeah, I just say that because I added a subtitle to Mara as well 'cause it was a couple of nukes.

And then I added rebuilding our Lives or rebranding our lives, rebuilding our Dreams. Don't even know my own subtitle. I would re our lives, I would even expand that further is exactly what it is. Yeah, it's building our dreams through blah, blah, you know, so that at a, you know, at a benefit. So it makes it a even a little more clear.

But I do like, yeah, and I, I was just talking to her about it today about, you know, like, I, like couple of nukes. It's has a, a very established presence online. It is about the origins of where the show started and it really emphasizes that, how I needed to rebrand and rebuild because no one, the other nuclear operators aren't on board.

It was supposed to be a couple of nukes, which is a shorthand for nuclear operators in the Navy. And, you know, that didn't happen. And I've looked at, like, I've been doing this for three years. I have such an established presence online. Been on over 30 shows. Yeah. If I rebrand. Now all those shows have wrong information.

You know, I'm gonna have to rebrand in, in parentheses, put formerly couple of nukes for everyone who finds my old episodes, my old guest appearances and all this stuff. It's well you can actually, you can actually do it and leave it on the same, the same feed. Like I thought about that too. We were slowly going back.

'cause I kept my podcast tile very similar. Oh, okay. So from a branding standpoint, it looks, you know, it's the same image, same color. We just changed the title and changed a, a couple of things around. So if you go back and look, we're slowly changing over, but I didn't go back and change all my old episodes.

I left them because it's still who and it, and occasionally I will say formerly the Enco entrepreneur, but I'm getting far enough out from it that I don't have to keep doing it. Right. But, and I think this is an important conversation 'cause I think there's a lot of people trying to pivot, rebrand, or, you know, change their business at this point in their life.

And I think that's one of the difficult things. You know, like I didn't get into podcasting to be a business owner. I got into it by, it kind of just happened, you know, it, it's like, where did I go from here? And I think a lot of business owners, you know, they just had an idea or a small vision and now it's become something so big, especially when they're in their midlife.

They're like, wow, this is gonna be the time and finances are gonna be a lot more than I thought. And you know, so I, I think it's really important to have these conversations about rebranding and pivoting and changing your message is part of that. Yeah. And it's, you know, just like anything else, we can make it really complicated or we can keep it simple because if you make it complicated, you're gonna postpone it and not do it.

But if you keep it simple, it makes it doable and you do it in steps. You know, I would love to say that people notice right away that I changed it, but in honest honesty, no, not really. I mean, you know, it, it took a lot. I thought it was always the midlife, you know, I, I totally forgot about the, the other name.

So yeah, if you go back and look in the old, in the old directories, it's the old one, but they look very similar. So, you know, I didn't change a, you know, didn't change a whole lot. I totally changed the website. You know, I had, I had, I have a little up on that one. So I've, you know, got a whole new website and that's, you know, the bulk of my business now is the Midlife Business Academy.

Mm-hmm. The podcast is part of it, but the programs and everything are all running through Midlife Business Academy, so you can get your MBA. Right. And what I want to clarify too, for anyone who is not tracking entirely, who should really reach out to you to work with you business owners that are typically in their, in their midlife, and, and notice I said business owners.

I didn't say female business owners 'cause I work with men also that are struggling with, with how to fit their business into their life. Or they wanna do a business but they don't know how it's gonna fit into their life. 'cause a lot of my clients, their partners are, are retiring or they're about to, or they retired and they're not sure how to get started there.

There's so much information out there on how to start a business. And they overcomplicate it and make it so hard. Starting a business is really not hard. The first thing you wanna do when you start a business is start telling people, decide what, well, first of all, you wanna decide what you wanna do, what, where do you wanna start?

And it's gonna change, it's gonna morph, it's gonna, it's gonna gradually change into something as you solidify that proof of concept. But then you start going out and you start meeting people and you start telling them what you're doing. Get feedback. I just say eyes to eyes, nose to nose, toes to toes.

You don't need a website, you don't need a business card. You don't need all of that. Just go out and start talking to people. Find people that you think would be who you wanna work with and say, I've got an idea. I wanna see, get your thoughts and feedback on it. And it can start as simply as that, that will help you fine tune and mold where that's gonna go.

And it could take you a couple weeks, it could take you a couple months. It could take you a year depending on what you're doing. But if you're getting honest, good feedback from people that you perceive to be your, your ideal client, air quotes again, then that's gonna give you good information and you can just, you can solidify 'cause it's gonna change.

That's why even though I own a website design company, I say, don't even think about it for a while. You don't need it yet. You will. All you want is just a one pager that's gonna say, this is who I am. A picture of you a, a quick little bio about who you are in a contact form. That's all you need for right now.

Get it up there and it does a couple of things. It authenticates you because now you've got a presence in, in, in a very small way. But you, you can also start building a, what they call authority on your domain. So if your domain is a couple of nukes and you're just starting your business, you go ahead and get that domain because longevity is good for Google.

You wanna make sure that it's not a brand new domain, and they'll, you know, they, they treat it differently when you've had it a while. So go ahead and let us start building all of that, all that authority for you. And you can also set up a Google My Business, which is, you know, a, it's been around a long time, but Google my business still works for businesses.

Somebody's trying to search for you. They met you at a networking or something, but that's what I would tell you. You don't even need a business card. Just get you a little QR code or make a contact on your form that you can share with somebody that's got all your information on it. That's all you need.

And nowadays you can get a smart ring and just, you know, kind of punch people with your business, you know, see those. But you can when you visit your friend's home, type your podcast into their smart fridge, start playing it in the background, you know? But I think I can really relate to what you're saying in the sense that when I first came to podcast, the first year that I went.

You know, I was brand new to podcasting. I never, you know, shared the show with anyone. And from the beginning of that event to the end, the, the condensing and perfecting of my message was occurring in real time. Same with right. Every show that I've been on, like I look at the first podcast I was ever on, I try not to listen to it in the latest ones.

The way I share my message, the fluidity of it, the clearness of it, the efficiency of it, all of it has drastically improved from real time experience. So I think, you know, continually pitching and practicing and getting feedback from real people, and you can pitch to AI over and over again, but you know, it's people who are gonna be receiving the message and you need to know how they're gonna receive it.

Right. And I think it's especially important if you have a very diverse range of people that you're marketing to, that you try to get a diverse range of feedback. But, you know, I have lived through it and just going through it and. That's how you really practice. And, and that includes even Zoom events.

Like try to go to as many online little networking groups you can to practice pitching it and, you know, condensing it down and perfecting it. Right? And along those same lines, I'd say, you know, get on as many summits as you can. Summits and, and podcast interviews are a great way to hone your message and, and morph it and figure out where you wanna go.

Especially summits, if they're an interview style it because nine times outta 10, you're gonna know your subject matter. What you may not know is how to market your business or how to make it into a business. But if you're talking subject matter, you're gonna come across as the expert anyway. So if you go onto podcasts or go onto the, some of the summits, that is a really good way to get your name out there and to start, start validating that message.

Like you said, the more people you talk to, the more it's gonna become cohesive and, and make sense, and, you know, weed some things out. You'll know what gets traction, you'll know what won't, or what, you know, people will look at you with their eyes glazed and like, I, I totally didn't get what you just said.

You know, and you can see that. So it's, there's a lot of good ways that you can, you can get your name out there and, and start, start working on it. Right. And I don't want to overcomplicate things, but I know one thing I've noticed too is like, I have many titles, right? Speaker, preacher, author, comedian, dog, dad, podcaster.

The arrangement of those plays a vital role too. I've noticed. Like what words I put at the end or the beginning can change how people react or take me, right? So again, I don't want, I don't wanna put forward overanalyze everything you do but there are a lot of small details to consider as well. So like when, as you're perfecting your title or titles think about that as well, you know, so, right.

Yeah. And I, I generally counsel my clients put the money making stuff first, the passion stuff middle. That's why I start with good looking. Yes. I say I'm a good looking, you know, that's why I start with, but you're a dog lover. That is, that is who you are. So put that kind of toward the end. 'cause that's, I got my dog right here this whole time.

Oh look. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, would it? I couldn't put my cat up. She would be like all over the place. She'd knock the microphone over probably. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or my water. But yeah, so yeah, it's, I mean, there's some different ways to do it, but yeah, I mean, that's part of, of who you are and your brand and, you know, people wanna work with people they like and that they, that, you know, that know, like, and trust thing.

Although I flip it and I say like, know and trust. 'cause if I don't like you, I don't wanna get to know you. So I flip it a little bit that, hmm. Let me, without being too specific, I will say, I've gone to business events and have encountered certain individuals multiple times throughout the event. They never say a word to me.

We've made eye contact. I've even spoken to their business partners or girlfriends or boyfriends. They, and then a few weeks later I get an email, oh, would you wanna come to my event for X, y, Z amount of money or do this? And it's like. You, we, you had multiple chances talk to me in person and didn't, and like for me, that's right there.

I, I, I consider that the liking part, right? Yep. I know exactly who you're talking about too. I was, I was, oh man. Isn't that obvious? Okay. Exactly. Yeah. So it's just, it's interesting when you Right, how you treat people, that likability is, IM important because, you know, I mean, I talk about that with podcasting and business is conscious consumerism, right?

Especially from my generation to generations below and above me. They care more about who the person is and their morals and values than the product itself. And people rather go to a more expensive company that is organic or treats their employees right, for basic examples. Then a company that is cheaper and uses unethical means, and it's the same thing with your business.

Me and someone else could have the same exact products. For two different drastic prices. But if you like me better, 'cause I'm good looking, you know, you might want to go with that compared to someone else. But I, again, I think that likability is so important. I think that is part of what builds trust too.

Yeah. I mean, sure you can trust someone to get it done 'cause they're a professional, but if you can't get along with them or work with them, ultimately that relationship is just not gonna work well. So yeah, it was funny on our, on our first, my first cruise, there was a gentleman on there who I, I really didn't care for and he was very similar to the person you named and did not name.

I I Oh yeah. Who was implied I guess. Yeah. Who was implied? It was that middle telepathy name. Is that exactly who it is. Very similar, very similar person. And sent me an invitation right after the first of the year or right around the holidays for to be a, on his summit. And I thought, you know, I wasn't gonna do it.

Then I thought, you know what, I'm gonna do it because I wanted to see if my first impression was correct. And it was, you know, you had a choice of interview or presentation. I always choose interview 'cause I like the interchange and you know, you think of questions and stuff. So I always choose interview and I didn't know how long we had, I didn't know anything about it other than this was my time and this was what I was talking about.

So we get on and you know, he chit chats for a minute and all of a sudden he says, well, I'll see you later. And you know, screen's all yours. No introduction, no. He just left me. Thank goodness. You know, I had talking points up 'cause there was a couple things I wanted to talk about and it was the same presentation I gave on the, I ended up doing on the podcast cruise, a new media cruise.

But I'm like, thank goodness I had that kind of in front of me, or the slides or whatever. 'cause I had something to go by, but it was just like, blah that. And so when it was over it was like, well, I'll never do that again. So, yeah, you know, first impression. I know we're supposed to be like, oh, maybe it's just a wrong first impression, but a lot of times your instincts and your, your feelings are, your intuition is pretty accurate on that stuff.

Yeah. And I've, I have been wrong one time, big time. And you've heard this story. It's when I met one of the hosts of the, of the new media cruise, I met him at New Media. At New Media Center. Oh yeah, yeah. I think I have him. And I thought he was arrogant. I thought, I won't tell tell you the name that I called him, but it, it.

Ends with, you know, it rhymes with bass and, you know, I just thought, oh, and so the first marketing cruise I went on, I, I was talking to my friend and who had also met him and had kinda had the same feeling. And I'm like, oh, he's on the cruise. And we're like, oh, great, cool. So we're sitting at dinner and he, and you know, his date come walking down and they're getting closer to our table.

And I'm like, keep walking, keep walking, keep walking. And he ends up sitting at our table directly across from us. Lovely. We had the best conversation. She was delightful. They're getting married in two weeks, so she wasn't just some, you know, some babe date. She would, there were a, are you gonna say bimbo?

No, no, no, no. I wouldn't say that, but it was like. Totally wrong. And I told him, I said my first impression was so bad. I'm really, really glad we had that opportunity to talk, because then I got into his world. I, you know, became part of the, the new media cruise. And I've shared this story very publicly. In fact, he was a guest on my podcast and he said, are you gonna tell the story?

Yeah. He said, are you gonna tell the story of how we met? And I'm like, sure. If you're okay with it. Yeah. But it was, it was very much of the wrong first impression. And when you, you know, there again, you know, kind of goes back to what we talked about is what is the first impression you're giving? Because I had had that first impression of him for years and was not looking forward to meeting him.

Didn't wanna sit at his table. 'cause that first impression was so bad. And he said, I'm very introverted. I, we actually like, we're on an elevator together. And he said, I wouldn't have talked to you on an elevator because. I don't wanna talk to anybody. So I've changed, I've had really had to work out of that now, but back then I, there was, there was a, a very, you know, I'd only been in business for a while.

I was not very confident about things totally different. You never know what somebody's backstory is and how it's coming across. So, so, yeah. So now we're very, very good friends and, you know, totally adore them and love them and, you know, thank the world. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. I, but I think after, you know, you give them that, that second chance and, and they prove you right twice in a row.

That that's it. I mean, if you wanna do the three strikes, you're out by all means. But. You know, when it comes to your business, especially collaborations and reputation and finances, you know, you gotta be careful about that, so. Right, right. Well it's kinda like going to a restaurant, you know, I'll give a restaurant twice if they're, if they're horrible the first time I listen to every song twice.

Yes. Same thing with music. Exactly. Yeah. Same thing. I'll, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but, you know. Yeah. Nope. And, and same with TV shows. 'cause I have a bad habit of being like, oh, this first episode's so slow or boring. And then, then I dropped off. And then some of my favorite shows just like, look, you gotta get past the first episode.

You know, you gotta, oh yeah. And, and I think that's just become part of culture, you know, so quick to, to judge. And you know, like a lot of people are like first aid done, you know, that's it. Like not really getting to know a person. And I think what you mentioned though is one of my pet peeves, which is I had a, a gentleman I was friends with no longer, he's an enemy, but we were friends at the time.

Everywhere we went that it was his friend group or some group that he was a part of never introduced me. Oh yeah. He just has me standing there like a jerk. And I feel like it is rude for me to be like, Hey, I'm so and so, blah, blah. And especially if they're already conversating, you know? So, yes. I hate that.

And I think on that professional level too, it's like you gotta give some kind of introduction, you know? And I, yeah. So that, that would've, I would've been steaming mad too. 'cause I, I just feel like it's, it's rude to introduce yourself. Yeah. You know, like, especially if you're a guest. Yeah. And I did write him an email afterwards and say, you know, I had, I, I don't know if I talked too long, or a scale of one to 10.

Yeah. Scale. This is how I rated the event scale one to two. Yeah. Yeah. An introduction would've been nice. You know, some kind of edification. Usually you get something, you know, or at least a name, you know. But, but yeah. So it was it was, it was interesting, but. You know. We'll, yeah, we'll see. And I just wanna go back to website design.

Speaking of websites. Yeah. Igniting your business.com. I gotta plug that. It'll be in a description below. That's where people can find you. They can find your podcast a little bit about you, and obviously what you can do for them. Obviously your messaging on there is perfect because that's what you do.

And so, you know, I appreciate that and I just want to share that for everyone. And I feel like we've shared a lot, but if you wanted to give one last message, you know, since your messaging expert, what would that be? It doesn't have to be specifically about messaging or marketing or business, but just overall, based on all we've talked about, I would just, I would just say overall, don't hesitate to start the things that you want to start.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Don't let fear hold you back because we all start somewhere and. Don't look at what else somebody has been doing that's been building for 20 years. If you're just starting, start where you are. Start with what you need and move from there. 'cause owning your own business or, or doing what we're doing is, is the most gratifying and freeing thing in the world.

And just make it your own. And, and, you know, start, I chuckle when you say freeing. I used to work a nine to five, now I work 24 7, but Right, right. It's your 20, you could work which 24 sevens you want, you know? Right. I work all 24 7, you know, but I, I get what you're saying. No, it is very, I'm very blessed to have the flexibility that we have, like we do.

And I, I think, you know. Like you said, I, and I mentioned it earlier, so many people I know have pitched to me these book ideas they have in their heads or these art pieces or these podcast ideas and years and years go by where they still haven't started. Yeah. And they're caught up on perfectionism and fear and I'm like, you know, Chris Zos had I, I believe it was, he made the book start ugly, you know?

Yeah. Or you just gotta start and, and figure it out along the way, or I feel like now more than ever, there is so much information on how to start. More than there ever has been between AI, podcasts, books, courses, groups for free and paid. I think now is the best time to start. And I think it's only gonna get more and more competitive.

So the longer you wait, the more difficult it's gonna be. So start right now. Ignite your business today. There you go. Yeah. And, and there's a lot of, there's a lot, you're right. There's a lot of stuff on starting a business and you can read all about starting your business, but you still have to start, it still all comes down to you starting.

Don't outsource it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't outsource it. All right. Not yet. Anyway. Well, Ms. Lyons, so great to catch up with you a, a great time too. A lot more laughs than I thought. So that's, that's good. And it's Lori. Oh, okay. I was like, I was like, did I say your name wrong? I, I, I'm tracking. No, no. We've had this conversation before, so I have to laugh.

Right. Well, thank you so much. Bye. And we'll be catching up soon again. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.