Unspoken Stories & Difficult Paths To Faith With Aggie Park

Today, I sit down with Aggie Park, host of the {UN}SPOKEN podcast, to unpack a faith-forward conversation on trauma, identity, and what healing looks like in real time. Ms. Park shares her story of being born in Indonesia, growing up in Germany, and later building life in the United States, all while also balancing her work in podcasting, pageantry, and content creation. 

In this episode, Ms. Park walks through the early roots of low self-worth shaped by emotional and physical abuse, bullying, and repeated rejection and how those wounds impacted the relationships she chose later in life. We talk through the consequences that followed, the moments where God intervened in unmistakable ways, and the difference between being around “Christian things” and developing a personal relationship with Jesus. 

We also get practical and specific about faith under pressure: forgiveness versus reconciliation, setting boundaries without abandoning obedience, and how to forgive while still protecting yourself from repeated harm. Ms. Park shares how writing her book has forced honest reflection and became a tool for processing grief, while also speaking about ongoing battles like anxiety, depression, eating disorder patterns, and self-harm, along with what it means to pursue healing as a Christian without shame.

To close, Ms. Park highlights the mission behind Unspoken Season Two: stories from people still in the middle of the struggle, learning to trust God before the “final testimony” is complete. We anchor the conversation in Scripture (including Zephaniah 3:17 and Isaiah 40:31) and leave listeners with a clear message: healing is not always linear, but purpose is never absent when you surrender the process to God. 

https://www.theunspokenpod.com/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode, A couple. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I was super excited for today's episode. It's always great to reconnect with someone whose show you've been on. But this particular guest was actually my favorite show that I've ever been on because I felt I could just feel the Lord, you know, really speaking through me. And, and so it was awesome. And hopefully I don't sound like I'm bragging there, but, you know, I just felt like there's certain episodes where you just feel like, man, I, you know, I don't know where that came from, but I said what I said and you know, it was not. An episode for the Faint of Heart. You know, we talked about abortion. We talked about broken heartedness and being crushed in spirit and faith being called the antichrist. A lot of, a lot of powerful stuff. And so first and foremost, I want to apologize for my audio and video quality. I am traveling on the road, so not the normal setup, but as. Long as you can hear the message, I hope you receive it. And we are here with a woman who is a podcaster, I would say relatively new, but seems to know what she's doing pretty well. And she is not just a podcaster, she is also a beauty pageant competitor and a Boba tea queen Enthusiast. Yes. So, you know, there's, there's a lot more to us than just the podcast. But most importantly, she is a daughter and princess of our Lord God. And she is here to share the unspoken stories, the stories of God's people who are in the midst of hardship and struggling. Those who have found victory through his salvation, and those who are at the bottom of the miy pit to quote King David. And so Aggie Park, so great to have you here and I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself. Wow. What an introduction, Mr. Whiskey. Thank you. I feel so honored. A little bit about myself. So like Mr. Whiskey said, I'm a boa addict. If you don't follow me on Instagram, you would catch that like immediately. I was born in Indonesia and I grew up in Germany for about like seven. I was in Germany for seven, eight years and then I moved back to Indonesia and then I moved to the States and now I am here. And a little bit, a little fun fact about me. I'm actually allergic to alcohol, so I can't drink anything, even if I wanted to. Not that I wanted to because I actually don't like the taste of alcohol anyways. But yeah, that's where the Boba tea comes in. Clutch. Yes. That's why I'm addicted to Boba, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I. I'm gonna make all the boba tea enthusiast, man. I like Boba minus the boba, so I just like the drink. What I de no, nothing. I don't like any of the chewy black pearls or the crystal pearls or any of that stuff. Ah, I don't like solids in my drinks, and so I just get the boba. I say Hold the boba and I just get basically like a, it's basically what you would get as a refresher from Starbucks or Dunking Donuts. Yes, it's just a sweet drink and happen to have a large straw, but no, I can't do the boba. And if I do. I will put my straw up against the cup, so I don't get any of the boba. I just have a, a pile at the bottom. That's so funny that I throw into the, you know, into the forest or wherever. But yeah, I just get the boba, hold the boba so people think I'm crazy. And you know what? I, if I order a pokey bowl, I warm it up because I hate cold food. So what? Yes, yes, yes. I am like the, the, I am the antichrist of Asia, I guess you could say. You know, like I am doing everything wrong. But, oh my goodness, that's so funny. I learned how to use chopsticks now, so at least I am, you know, eating properly. I used to yes, just eat with my hands or fork, and I was that embarrassing guy at the place. He was like can I get a fork? I don't know how to use the chopsticks. And now I, I am and educated, but that aside, you know, I want to get into, you know, we talked about hosting an unspoken po but your journey with God started long before that. And I want to go back to, you talk a lot and you interview a lot of people about their hardships, but it's no secret that you have dealt with a lot of hardship yourself, that you and I kind of have discussed together, and I'd love to unpack that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure. It's kind of complicated and long, so I try to make it as concise and clear as possible. So, as I said, I was born in Indonesia. I didn't get to see my dad face to face until I was six or seven years old, and I don't remember a lot about my childhood, but I do remember a lot of emotional and physical abuse from my mom. I really believe that she didn't want me, and I don't remember her being there for the important moments of my life, but God has just so much mercy on me that he saw my suffering and he basically moved my dad's heart to go to Indonesia, remarry my mom. And so at the age of seven, we all moved from Indonesia to Germany, and my dad showed me a kind of love that I never thought that I was worthy of. He treated me with respect, with care, with love, and it was just amazing. But even then, there was a challenge because I was the only Asian. In my school in Germany. So I was being made fun of, of how I look, how I spoke. So the EM abandonment and the rejection of my mom, plus the bullying from people in Germany really deepened the lie in my heart that I was useless, that I was worthless, that somehow God could make a mistake in making me right. And then fast forward college, I believe our mom decided to leave us to do her own thing. And I remember my sister was five, so I basically had to raise my sister 'cause my dad was working all the time. And because I had an unhealthy view, low self-worth view of myself, I dated guys that were really, really toxic, narcissistic and abusive. But I stayed anyways because I never believed that I was worth the fight. So in high school, during college. It was just a lot of abusive relationships. And one guy really changed the course of my life because he had a gambling addiction on top of being abusive. And my dad is a very conservative dad. He's like, you don't date until you finish college with an a plus plus. And so I did it anyways before I graduated. And he found out, not only did he found that out, but actually I gave the ex-boyfriend that had a gambling addiction, my tuition college money. So my dad was just so pissed. He is like, you did what? And so he basically took my passport away so I couldn't go back to the states to finish my college. He basically locked me in the house. I couldn't go anywhere. And every time he saw me, he would just scream at me, blaming at me, saying, oh, you are so useless. You're worthless. You're such a shame to the family, yada, yada, yada. And so that light just even further deepen and deepen. And for me, I just realized that as I am, I'm actually in the process of writing a book. So as I'm writing a book, I was like, oh, my dad should have, yeah, I get it. Like he can be mad. He should be mad, right? But he was mad for a year, like he was screaming to me for a year and I was, as I was writing my book, I was reflecting, oh, in the most vulnerable and painful moment. He didn't come to comfort me or console me or grief with me, but he just instead blamed me. So it's just like everything is my fault, even though it wasn't, it was my fault, but I never. You know what I mean? Like being in, I get what you're saying. Staying in that toxic relationship was my choice. But because of all the trauma, like I made that choice. But yeah, anyways, everything was my fault, even though it wasn't directly my fault. So I was feeling even more useless. Even more worthless. And I just had it. But I think I remember one day we were sitting in the car and we were going to a family dinner, and my dad told everyone already of how the stupid mistake I made, right? So our family and friends always, not always, but when they saw me, they always screamed at me and blamed at me and humiliated me in public everywhere I went. So I knew that was coming and I was so scared, and I remember I was sitting in the back seat. Terrified with my Samsung MP three player. Yes, I'm that old. I don't know if you guys know what an MP3 player is. It's basically, I don't know, how do you describe it? A little music player that, A portable music player. Okay. So I had that and I don't know how Jeremy Camps song and he's a Christian artist, how Jeremy Camp song was in my playlist because even though I was going to a Christian school and church and whatever, I didn't have a personal relationship with God. So I don't remember having any Christian songs in my MP three player. But that song basically said, this broken road is his past for me, and one day you will see what I'm doing. And I don't under, I didn't understand it back then, but it gave me so much peace in that moment. And now fast forward like 20 plus years later, I see now all this pain was for his purpose. But going back. To that moment I just had it and I actually fled from my dad's house, which is not my nature. But if you are in so much pain and trauma, you usually, you do the things that you normally would not have done. So I ran away from my dad's house and stayed from house to house. And one day my aunt called me. She's like, did you, do you wanna go back to the states still to finish college? I was like, heck yeah, but how am I gonna do that? Because I don't have money, I don't have a passport. Like how She said, just go back to your dad's house. I was like, excuse me, what? He's gonna kill me. But God always knows what he's doing. So that day I went back to my dad's house and. Miraculously, my dad gave me my passport back, and then the next scene just felt like a movie. I called my aunt, okay, I got my passport. Okay, I'm gonna pick you up. And so I remember being in my room, grabbing whatever I could see quick. And then my sister was so confused because remember, our mom just left. And now she's also confused like, okay, now my sister's leaving too, right? Mm-hmm. And so she still deals with a lot of trauma. She has a lot of depression, anxiety, and things that she's working through right now, but. Basically, couple days later after applying a visa, my aunt just booked a flight for me and give me $2,000 and just said, don't you worry about thing. Everything will work out. Just go. So I was sitting there in the window seat not knowing where I'm gonna stay, how I'm gonna pay my tuition, like how is this gonna ever work out? Right? But God is so faithful, even though we are faithless and he knows and loves us even though we didn't know him or love him yet, because three days before school started, he provided me with a place where the landlord was either an elder or pastor, and I know their prayers, them bringing me to church and grounding me in truth and grace and in community, really brought me to where I am with Jesus today. So I guess. Long story short, God redeemed every part of my pain, and that's just who he is. He's a redeemer. He's not only a healer, but he redeems every part of our pain because growing up I never had a voice. And now, now he has blessed me with a podcast, not only to share my voice and being on podcasts to share my voice, but also stewarding others people's voice and stories, and being bullied as a kid, being made fun of how I looked. He called me into modeling and pageantry, which in million years I would've never imagined that. And. From having no family, like you said, even though my mother and father forsake me, the Lord will receive me well. It's not only the Lord, but we have a family, an eternal family from all tribes, tongues, and nations. Too many to count like he is just wow. Like he redeems so much greater than the pain itself. So I just want the listeners to be encouraged. Whatever you're going through, it's never a waste. There's always purpose and beauty behind it if you surrender it to him, and if you just humble yourself and ask the Lord, okay, Lord, use this. Use this for your glory, because I don't want to, yeah, waste this pain. I have so many questions for you. We are gonna get into it for sure. The first thing that I really want to go over is one of my favorite. Quotes from the Bible because it is something I have continually learned more and more as I've gotten older. And it is something that I look back like I wish I had known the Bible when I was younger and known a lot of the wise sayings and the teachings and instructions of the Bible, because it would've stopped me from making a lot of mistakes if I had been disciplined. Yes. In those rules and principles. Mm-hmm. If I had understood them to the degree, and I think a lot of failings when it comes to parenting and faith mentorship is that we are told, not taught. We don't get that understanding of why something is important until we live those consequences ourself. And I believe that, that we don't have to live consequences to understand rules. In fact, if you parent with. Love and mercy, and you build that trust and authority, your children will obey you. Not out of fear, but because they respect you and they're gonna trust that what you're saying is right. And I think one of the important things like that you talked about with your father, like, yes, you were in the wrong, however, your father didn't do root cause analysis. My nuclear way of saying it. But I, I think what I like to say is, why is someone behaving the way they are, especially children. Mm-hmm. Right? When your children act a certain way, a lot of people jump straight toward discipline or punishment, rather than, yeah. Why is this happening? Mm-hmm. Why are your great slipping? Why are you hanging out with these people? Yeah. Trying to understand. And sometimes you can't get your children to be vulnerable and explain. It takes a lot and I've had full episodes dedicated to that. But I think when you lead with discipline or punishment, you really bury the why, because then your children really don't wanna open up to you 'cause they're mad at you, upset with you. Mm-hmm. Or whatever it may be, you know? And I don't know, you know, I don't have a daughter yet. God willing. But I feel like if she was dating a certain type of guy that I, I had an issue with, my first thing would be like, why are you pursuing these kind of men? And I don't know. She even knows that. 'cause I mean, you didn't probably know until looking back why you were attracted to the type of guys that you were. Yes. At least if you get some kind of basis as a parent, you can kind of form an opinion on maybe why this is happening. Yeah. And I want to go to Proverbs five is an amazing proverb. I mean, they're all amazing obviously, but mm-hmm. If you look at verses 11 through 14, it says, at the end of your life you will groan. When you're flesh and body are spent, you will say how I hated discipline, how my heart spurned correction. I would not obey my teachers or turn my ear to my instructors. And as, and I was soon in serious trouble in the assembly of God's people. And I love that because. I am in a place now in life where I look back, I'm like, man, I, I hated and, and, and sperm that discipline or those teachings and my parents were right, or my pastor was right, or whoever it may be, insert X, y, z name. And of course we hate to make admit that, that, you know, our parents were right. You know, we hate to say that, but I think as bitter as it is to read this proverb and be like, that guy is me now. At least it's not the end of my life and my flesh and, and everything is spent and my spirit is crumbling. At least it is now when I have redemption through Christ, that I have the path that I can follow now to make that decision. So I like to say better late than never, right. And that's a big message that I've put forward in addiction recovery because I have had episodes with addicts who were addicted for over 30 years who have recovered and turned their life to God or sobered up after 30 years, people in their seventies and eighties. Yeah, it is never too late. And I think that is so important. And I want to go back to, so you mentioned a couple things. So you were in Germany, which is Yes. Pretty interesting. So you had to learn German and was that like a roadblock for you or did you kind of get by? Like what, what was the native language you spoke? It was German, so it was, it was a hard, hard journey because I think it was the next day after we arrived from Indonesia, I went to school and. I went to class and then everybody stood up. So I stood up and then the teachers sat, sat down in German, which I didn't understand, and everybody sat down and I just kept standing. I just remember that moment so vividly. I had to learn the German language quick because if not, I would fail school. Right? So every morning, I think an hour before school started, there was a German lesson at school. So I learned the German language in six months, I think. Not perfectly, but being able to just survive. And then you went to the States for college, correct? Yes. Mm-hmm. So what degree were you pursuing? Business. Business. Okay. Yeah. And that is the degree you ultimately got when you went back? Yes. Business in finance. Business finance, okay. Mm-hmm. So it wasn't. It was a Christian school. But you didn't lean towards that ministry side when it came to your education, correct? Well, Christian school was high school, and that was another funny story because when we moved from Germany to Indonesia, all the enrollment periods were closed. So the only school that said, oh, maybe we can still accept her, was that Christian school, but Asian math and science and English, and every subject is harder than, you know, European or American level. So I had to pass the math, science, and English test, and I kid you not, I guessed all of them, like all of them, but somehow I passed with 70 or 75%. Mm-hmm. And I knew it was the Lord, like it just. I think he just reminds me of this story because if it's God's will, he's gonna make a way. It does not depend on your effort or your ability or your whatever connection. He is going to make it work. Yes. Because that's how I got into the nuclear operator program they get because the asvab, you know, quizzes you on other stuff like mechanics and electrical and I was like, I know how to plug in the Xbox and I know how to put the batteries into my electric toothbrush and that's it. Yeah. They're asking me questions about wires and voltage and all kinds of stuff. Mm-hmm. And somehow I scored pretty well in that and I became an electrician made nuclear operator. So I was like, oh well we're guessing. And you know, but I think it's amazing. And that actually brings me back to a point you mentioned earlier, which is, I wanna clarify. So do you believe God put that song into your phone at some point for that moment? Completely, a hundred thousand percent. Nothing is on accident. Everything is according to God's will with purpose. So I think that song said, also, let let it fade. Let this new mercy become your new life or something like that. Basically you will find rest in me one day. And that just gave me so much peace, even though I didn't have peace back then. But in that moment. Because when God speaks to you, it gives you so much peace that you can't even explain. And so God is just so good. He's not as the world gives you, but as I, yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. And even now, today, when people say hurtful stuff to me, I remember one day. I think somebody just said very mean stuff to me and I was super hurt and I was super sad. And then the next morning my alarm went off on a random Spotify song and it was a song by unspoken, actually. It's called What He, what He Says about You, that you are chosen, your Loved, your God's beloved, right? And so God is just so good. He just really knows your heart and he just comforts you and just gives you song. And it just reminds me of Zaya three 17. I think the Lord your mighty warrior is is within you or is among you. He rejoices over you with gladness and over you with great singing or something like that. It's just like, I don't know. He's just so good. A hundred percent. I, I totally agree. And actually. Great segue into talking about hate comments and stuff as a for lack of better words, a female Christian influencer and someone running this podcast and spreading the faith. Have you gotten comments, especially negative comments about the makeup, the nails, the way you dress and hair you are, you know, what they call for lack of better words, a girly girl, right? You are right. That kind of energy. I am a girly girl. Mm-hmm. You know, there is this preconceived notion that because of that it's not humble enough or it's not a certain way you should look to spread the word. And I have my own commentary on it, but I want to hear your opinion first for sure. Ooh, I wanna hear yours after. Okay. Okay. Ha. Yes. So I remember one YouTube comment specifically like. Tone it down with a hair and makeup, you know, that's, that. Won't you get into heaven? Right? I was like, what? That doesn't have anything to do with me getting into heaven. I don't know where that comment came from. I know like everybody's going through something, so I'm sure like he or she has a lot of trauma or whatever. Pray for our enemies. Yes. Not easy to do. No. But I pray that they get logged outta their YouTube account so they can't make comments. But you know, before, before actually stepping into who got created for me to be, not who others want me to be or who Christians think how Christians should look like or sound like. I thought pageantry was a sin. I thought looking beautiful was a sin. I thought makeup, nails, whatever, earrings was a sin, you know? But. God created beauty. He cares about beauty, obviously, 'cause he created the universe and heavens with amazing, breathtaking beauty. But also he needs people in every industry. So if we stay in a Christian bubble, how are we gonna be the light to people who don't know the gospel? Yeah. He needs people in the comedy industry. He needs people in the entertainment, beauty, I don't know, arts and crafts, media, every industry, he needs people. Right. You're saying we shouldn't make a lamp and then hide it. Yes, exactly. Like, yeah, how can we shine bright if we stay in our own little bubble? You know? So, and God is so creative, like he makes us uniquely different. And that is such a beautiful thing. And I think it's so sad that Christians hate other Christians to limit them to be like them. Well, God didn't create. You and me to be like them. God created you and me to be like you and me to shine his light in a different way. That they can't shine and we can't shine like them. So I just want the listeners to know be who God created for you to be. And even if people make fun of you, hate, hate you, that's their prob problem. If they don't like you, they gotta complain to God because that's how God made us. Right. And you know, it comes back to deflection ultimately, right? Because there are plenty of people who will detract from a good message that I'm saying because they'll just make fun of my cowboy hat and completely ignore the message. Or I've had other right. YouTube shorts or social media posts about suicide prevention, about mental health, about addiction. And people will deflect to something. I, you know, I had a gentleman on the show who said, you know, Mr. Whiskey we're having a great conversation, but because of my curly hair, someone's gonna be like, well, that guy has that messy curly hair. What does he know about addiction recovery? You know, people will make any excuse to not receive a message, especially if it's one that hits them in a vulnerable spot. And yeah, I want to share that quote that I referenced earlier about the lamp, which is, neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand and it gives light to everyone in the house. And you said something so important along those lines, which is people wanna stay in this little Christian bubble about mm-hmm. What it should be. And that includes, yes, a lot of Christians don't want to talk to, you know, Islamic or Muslim people or people of other faith groups. Mm-hmm. And what did. Christ say, you know, he said, go and make disciples of all nations. He didn't say all nations. Mm-hmm. Just hang out with other Christians. When we isolate right. We are killing mm-hmm. The faith, we are limiting it to a population that is slowly going to die out. Like we need to interact. In fact, what did Jesus say? It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but rather the sick. Right. So we're supposed to go Yep. To the terrible places that we don't wanna go to. Right, right. And I think back, you know, my main commentary was when I was looking at you and thinking about what you were saying, I think of a lot of people are against beauty because beauty is especially nowadays associated with lust. And it's like the more lustful you are, the more beautiful you are in this fallen world. And we have seen the enemy use a lot of tactics of beauty and lust to destroy the greatest men in the Bible. Mm-hmm. King David. Mm-hmm. King Solomon, s Samson. But God also uses beauty. The enemy has villainized it and weaponized it, because that is what he does. He's a deceiver and a slanderer. But God has used Beauty Book of Esther. Right. Why was she chosen? Because she was so beautiful. Just, just naturally. All these women were taking one year treatment, one year beauty treatment to get beautiful, and Esther, just by herself blew them out of the water. Mm-hmm. Like God hosted a beauty pageant once and, and guess what? The faith-based one, you know? Yes. So I think that it, people don't know that story. I guarantee you. Most people, yes'. Not everyone has read the Bible, unfortunately. Especially believers have not read the Bible end to end. Mm-hmm. And the book of Esther is a great one. In fact, the Feast of Esther is coming up soon, which I always do a sermon about Esther during that holiday. Wow. That was a beauty pageant in real time. Yes. That God used. To save the entire Jewish population from being wiped out. Yes. In a single day. Mm-hmm. So that's, that's my commentary on it, which is God uses beauty and, you know, as long as it's not detracting from the message or purposely inciting temptation. Yeah. This goes back to people say, well, men should control themselves and women should wear whatever they want. Yes. Women should be allowed to wear what they want, but not if they are purposely wearing clothing to tempt or to be lustful in a way that will cause sin. Right? Mm-hmm. We're not supposed to entice in or encourage it or you know, try to make it on purpose. And so I think that is where the line of beauty needs to be drawn. Yes, yes. I completely agree with you. Everything needs to be balanced and like. The Bible says, don't look towards the outward appearance, but look towards the inward. Right. It's always the heart. Whatever you do, it's always the heart. Jesus looks at the heart and it just reminds me of Yeah. King David too. He was the smallest, he was the most unqualified, but God chose him because he was a man after God's own heart. Right. And, and he was good looking. I don't know. Yeah. And he was good looking too. Mm-hmm. Handsome. It says I don't know if you know Jelly Roll. Yes. Yes. I, I believe you just gave a big testimony in fact and Yes. It was so amazing. I was like, oh my goodness. Like I actually watched, I don't know if you know Star Search, I think it was, it's on Netflix and he's actually a judge. One of the judge judges, and there was this contestant who song, broken Hall. Broken. Hallelujah, I think. But he chose that song before he knew that Jelly Rule is going to be a judge. So afterwards, jelly Roll was just like, even during the, he couldn't, like, he was tearing up, he felt the Holy Spirit. And then wow. Afterwards he just preached the gospel and the other dude also preached the gospel. And then in my mind it's like, this is exactly what I'm talking about. 'cause people think, oh, how can a Christian have tattoos and like be dressed like that and be on a Netflix secular show? You know? Like, no, he, he went there to preach the gospel. That's why he's there. You know what I mean? So I just wanna encourage everyone, just be who God created for you to be, whatever industry he has called you to be, even though it's not the yeah, norm Christian way. Whatever. Go right. Go for it. Because that's what God has called you to do and to be. And that's where you find purpose and joy. And I think the comedy space in one is one that really needs it because a lot of comedy is becoming just racism or sexualization or politics, and we need more good, clean Christian humor. And I think that's really important. That's a space that is very lacking that, and I listen to a lot of. You know, faith-based rappers, and a lot of people are like, rap is evil, promotes sex and drugs, and rap is a genre. It is the people and the lyricists that determine the direction that they're steering in, which can be of whatever you put forward. And so I follow a lot of Christian rappers and other faith-based rappers that do amazing work in the conscious rap field. Yes. And so it really is what you put forward. And speaking of, you know, tattoos and hardship and the lifestyle we've lived and rough around the edges, most of the greatest preachers of all time that I like and connect with the most were extremely Yes. Criminal. Yes. They were th they were gunmen, they were, you know, spend time. And I think that is so important. You look at Doug Bachelor, Philip Anthony Mitchell, all these people who are doing great preaching. Grew up rough and that's why, and, and people like Jelly Roll can connect with people of the faith in a different way. Yes. My, my dad mm-hmm. Likes jelly roll 'cause he can connect to some of that more rough living stuff and being redeemed out of that. You know, some people don't want to hear just the you very easy Christian road that some people have lived, some people need it. Yes. And, and mm-hmm. Even David Goggins has gotten controversy for people. Were like, you know, you're, you're a believer and you put forward messages of God. But you know, you do it with F-bombs and he is like, you know what? God is using me to reach some of those people that just need a harsh wake up call and call back into the faith. Mm-hmm. He goes, I'm not a pretty Christian, and God didn't make me that way. Yes. And he doesn't use me that way. Right. So I think it's, it's important, you know, I think that we all have a unique calling and style of talking and gift. You know, even you look at all the prophets, spoke certain ways, did certain things, you know. Mm-hmm. Some of them had to lay on their side for a set number of days. Some of them have to, yeah. You know, do things. Some of them had to marry prostitutes. Some of them had to go out and make 3D displays of what was gonna happen. Some of them just had to preach orally, you know? So there's a lot of different ways that God uses people. And I, I think music is one of the most powerful ways, and music is also one of the most powerful ways that the enemy deceives us. How they, how he gives a message, right? And, and singing was a, a beautiful musician. Some translations, Bible will say he was made out of musical instruments and like, so I think it's really important what you listen to, but also how you deliver it. And I've gotten really into like, faith-based K-pop. Now there are a bunch of K-pop artists who are doing Christian K-pop and, you know, different styles and, you know, they dress in the K-pop manner and the, and the one lady I follow, she was getting. You know, hate comments because she was wearing like, it was, I don't know, like a fluffy white Kauai hat and some like K-pop clothes doing Christian rap. And you know, people were so against it. And it is like, again, like you said, people judged externally. Right. That's why Saul became king, right. Over the character of your mm-hmm. You know, heart and content. And you know, again, people are so focused on, on makeup and hair rather than all that. And it's like, yes, it's not going into heaven because only our soul is, you know what, neither are gold breaks. Yes. And neither are, you know, natural nails. Nothing has gone into heaven. You can't bring any I came into this world with nothing and not taking anything out of it. Yes. Except for maybe a few people. Hopefully you know, that I saved and planted some seeds that God, you know, used through me. But getting back to your story, 'cause this is a lot of where you are now, there's a gap we haven't covered, which is from when you graduated to what you're doing now. So what is that whole period look like? 30,000 for overview. Yeah. I try, I try to remember 'cause it was so long ago. But I came here on a student visa and I couldn't get employment after I graduated because nobody wanted to sponsor me, so I didn't have money. And God is just so good that he always provided somehow somewhere. I think I remember one time I volunteered at the food bank every two days. Yeah. Every other day. And they would just give me food. Like I just had food for, for, for months. And to tell you a very interesting and unexpected story, because I wasn't, I wasn't poor, but I didn't have a lot of money. Right. And I wanted to wear makeup still. Yeah. Financial degree is not working. No. And so I remember going to Walmart. And stealing makeup. And I thought, oh, I, I won't get caught, you know? Mm-hmm. And so after like exiting the, the sliding door two, I think one guy and one girl just came behind me and like grabbed me the, oh, sorry. Grabbed me by the arm and like, basically dragged me into the, like the office. I was so terrified. I was crying. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be sent back to Indonesia. Like, I'm just gonna, my life's over, blah, blah, blah. And then police came. I was like, police. Oh my goodness. And then he, they actually handcuffed me like that, like a criminal. And they walked me outta Walmart. I was so ashamed. And they put me back in the back seat of the police car. I was like, oh my gosh, I feel like a criminal. You know? And then they put me in a one jail cell. It wasn't like in a jail, it was in their office, but they had like a one single jail cell, right? And they put me there. I was just crying, crying. I was like, I think I, I cried to the Lord. I was like, okay, Lord, please help me. 'cause I don't know what's gonna happen to me. And. Not long after that, the police officer actually told me, Hey, you're free to go, because we just introduced a program where first time misdemeanors can actually volunteer their time and having their record clean. I was like, what? And get this, I was volunteering at a church serving homeless food. So my sin, he turned into a blessing for me and others. I was like, God, you're so amazing. Like it just blows my mind away. But I don't know if that answered your question. That just pops in my head. Well, that was one part, and I will say, now I have not done this. I don't wear makeup but I knew a woman. I think she's a relatively evil woman, so I'm not promoting this, but if you don't want to steal from Walmart, go to Sephora, try the free samples, do your makeup and leave. I've seen women do that. They just really use their free, yes. They just do their makeup in Sephora. On their way to work. They do the free samples. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's so funny. Like free sample was for you to try on with little mirrors and everything. Yeah, so I, I knew a woman who would go there would put on the makeup and then would leave. And, you know, she lived in a big enough city where there's difference of forest. You'd get a rotation. So you don't see the sample. That's hilarious. Too much. This is too, I wish people put as much energy into solving the world's problems as getting free makeup, you know, like, come on now. But yeah, I, I think, like you said. What's people, one of my favorite quotes from Genesis is, you know, like what you intended for sin and evil, God intended for the blessing and salvation of many others. And that comes from Joseph. Yes. Yes. When he finds his brothers, they think he's gonna kill them because they threw 'em in a well. And he says like, that is what saved all of us. You know, because otherwise they would've starved in the famine. And so I think that there's always, like you mentioned earlier, that redemption and then whatever the enemy intends against us, God can use for us when we turn to him. You know? Yes. Because when you don't turn to him, you and you continue to live in sin, then the consequences of that catch up to you. And it's not just the sin itself sometimes is the consequences of the sin. So I don't want anyone to think that like turning into God means there's no consequences, like God still has to allow us to go through those, not only to enact His will, but also so we can grow in our character, you know? Yes, yes. And I have a huge issue with anyone abusing grace or the confession of sins. Mm-hmm. To say, well. You know, Jesus, Christ's died for me so I can do whatever I want. It's all already taken care of at the cross. And even if that were true, out of sheer principle and character, you should want to do what is good and write in the eyes of the Lord. Right? You should just, because your parents, let's say your parents let you get away with something that they tell you not to do, like you should still not do it out of love and respect for them. Like if you truly love and respect someone, just because you can get away with something doesn't mean you should do it. It's about the integrity of your character. Yes. Yes. So I think that's super important. So you got out, you got your Monopoly get outta jail card. Yes, I did. Where does, where does it go from there? From Fast Forward, I think I got a job, but I had to move from the Bay Area to Arizona and it was just, I hated it because it was a sales job, like selling, like financial services. So I actually went door to door knocking and just selling cold calls, which I absolutely hated. And so I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. And then I actually got a job at a call center at Merrill Edge, which is okay. It was actually very tiring because you just say the same thing over and over and over again every single day, you know? And then I just got tired of that job and then I was like, I need something different. And the funny thing, not funny, but I told you I was in a lot of toxic and abusive relationship before. Well, I think because I wasn't healed from my pain yet. I was finding fulfillment in being in relationships with guys, right? So this guy was with, I was with, with five years, but inside of me. Okay. I needed something new like, like a drug, you know, like a new guy with a new love. So this guy from Los Angeles has actually visited me from to Arizona, and it's like, why don't you just come with me to la? There's more job opportunities there, whatever, whatever. And the crazy thing is I actually just got a new job in Arizona, but because my drug was love, I said, okay, whatever, let's just move to la. So I left my job, I left everything to LA with like, no clue, no job, no, no place to stay. But then after six months, a long time, I got my first job at BCBG. That was also very miserable. And I have many miserable jobs because they wanted me there at 7:00 AM and that was in Vernon and that was like two hour drive from where I lived. So I had to wake up at like four every morning. And like on the drive home, I was like praying. I was like, Lord, I can't do this. Like I can't, I can't do this. Yeah. That's four hours a day driving. Yes, yes. I was like, I can, I can't with some LA traffic thrown in there too. Yes. And the road is also like bumpy and like crazy drivers. I was like, I can't, I drives me insane. And then literally on the way home after I prayed another job actually called me and said, Hey, do you still want this job? And that job was actually a block away from my ex-boyfriend at during that time so we could carpool together. So that was just God's grace. Like God's is just. Like answering my praise left and right. Right. And then I think I dated this guy for one year, and then again because my, my drug was love. Actually went to a dating site while I was in a relationship with this dude. I know bad. Right? And then this dude found out and he was so pissed and, okay, this is so complicated to explain. The dude that I met is actually now my husband. Okay. So I met my husband online. But my husband, my now husband also found out that I was in a relationship with this other dude. So he was like, no way, Jose, I'm dating this girl. Like she's crazy, right? But the Lord is just so kind because he actually told my now husband Tim is his name. Go back to her because she needs you. And so I feel like, like part of the story of Hosea, kind of like, even though I was so unfaithful, but this God showing me his heart through my husband's heart, like going back to me and like restoring me. And my husband is just loving me and respecting me and honoring me like no other guy ever did. So he even redeemed that part of my life, you know? So now, yeah, now I'm here. Whew. That's no commentary. One gossip for you right there. Wow. Yeah. That was, wow. Okay. I wanna, I wanna address, well, so a couple of things, which is, I guess you've talked a lot, it seems like, and I, I don't wanna make any assumptions, but it seems like you had a genie in a bottle relationship with God. Like, every time you've mentioned God, it's been like, God, I need you to bear me outta this situation. Was there a daily prayer life or Bible, or like what? Mm-hmm. What kind of really started your, your close relationship with him? That's a good question. As I said before, I went to Christian school, I went to Christian Church, I think for most of my life, but I didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus yet. And I don't know exactly like how, because I remember, you know, on Facebook where you can look, oh, what you posted 10 years ago, 15 years ago, right? The embarrassment. Yes. And then I look back and then I just say like, oh, thank you God for answering my prayers. Or you know, Jesus loves you, or something like that. Like something related to God. And I don't remember having a relationship with God, but I guess that's just God showing me that our salvation, our relationship, it's him working in and through us. It's not our, it's our choice, but it's not our doing. Right. And so I think having a personal close, real relationship with Jesus started about five-ish years ago, where at church we were singing Thank You for the Blood by Charity, Gail. And I just remember weeping. You know, when you, you are weeping, you're crying, but it's not you per se. It's the Holy Spirit in you that's groaning and weeping. I was weeping and I was holding my hand like this, like this on the bottom, and I felt like the tea we worshiping and then I was okay and like you. Okay, so we're at church to Thank You, Jesus for the Blood. And I was weeping, and then I was holding my hands like this on the bottom, and then just tears, just powerfully just dropped into the palm of my hands. And I just felt those tears so powerfully and the Holy Spirit revealed to me those are the very tears that Jesus Christ shed for you on the cross. And at that moment, it just clicked. Something in my head just clicked in my heart. Yet I knew that Jesus died for the world, but I never reflected that. He died for my sins, for my shame, for my pain, like me like personally, individually, uniquely. At that moment, I was just like, okay, Lord. Here I am, whatever you want. I turned all my heart, my life, my soul to you. So yeah, you know, we often say like Jesus was human. He felt what we felt. But saying it like that has really opened up my mind to like, these are tears that Jesus, she these like when, when we cut and bleed like Jesus bled to. And yes, hearing it on that intimate physical level is like so powerful to me to think like there's a lot of times where I'm walking and breathing throughout the day and I don't think to myself like, Christ did this too. You know? Like I guess for a lot of of people, Christ feels so far away or so God like that we forget how truly human he was. I think that's a really powerful connection right there. And you as a host and I as a host, we both have a lot of, as we call 'em, raw, unfiltered conversations. Yes. Really getting into topics. So this next question's a little loaded and Okay. I have to ask you talk about. A lot of relationships throughout your life until you met your husband. And you know, prior to that it was a lot of love is a drug and I getting into these relationships, I feel worthless during all of that. Did you get pregnant and if you did, did you terminate your pregnancy and do you now have deep regret and remorse over that? Wow. What a question. Okay. I like that. I don't think I was, but I do remember that was this, okay, two instances, I was in my twenties and he was I think 38 or something. And looking back I was like, oh my gosh, why did I do that? You know, I knew something internally was wrong, but because the body so trauma, you just want, I guess, I don't know, a painful, abusive relationship, if that makes sense. So I just remembered. Him like just doing anything that he wanted to me, and I was just letting him, you know? And I don't know if I, I don't think so because I didn't like, yeah. Obviously I don't have any children yet. But then also another time where this dude, he just took advantage of me too. And then I was so scared because I was like, I can't get, there's no way I can't get pregnant right now. I need to finish college, blah, blah, blah. So actually he bought me a Plan B pill. So that was the only time I took that. And I don't know if I, I could have been pregnant and it could have terminated, but I didn't bleed out or I didn't, you know what I mean? So I don't think so. Right. But I have no clue, but I never aborted or I did abortion or any, any source of that. Praise God. Okay. Well, yes. Praise God for that. 'cause I know there's a lot of women who have gone through that, especially who have turned their life to the Lord or you know, or a Christian along who have deeply regretted that. And one of my books in the future that I'm working on is actually a collection of people who chose last minute to cancel their abortion and exploring their mother, daughter, mother, son relationships and, and how they feel about it. 'cause I think that's powerful, you know? Mm-hmm. I think one of the most powerful things we've seen at a lot of these pro-life meetings are people who were going to be aborted or the people tried to abor and what they're doing now in life. And, you know, I think it is just so evil. People say it's like, you know, empowering to you or, or whatever, you know, they wanna say. And to me it's like. When you choose abortion, what you're choosing is to make other people suffer the consequences of, of your actions. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And I don't see, pregnancy shouldn't be viewed as a consequence or punishment for your actions to begin with. Right. It's like reproduction is to make life, and that's what sex is. That's what it is. A deeply intimate, physical connection between man and woman that God made to create new life. And if you do that outside of his will in sin and it functions how it does to then try to alleviate that by ripping someone else of their life and mm-hmm. Killing. Mm-hmm. And I imagine like. People are like, well, it's my body. My choices is my kid. I can do what I want with them. Yeah. Strips them of their independency too. But you gotta remember, all of these people are God's children. So imagine, yes. You were killing someone else's kid. Mm-hmm. How you would feel, you would say that was wrong. Yeah. And I watched a very, very powerful video the other day and I, I emphasized a very, very powerful, because this man was going to people who are pro-abortion and asking them to help raise money so that the local animal shelter could abort puppies and kittens. And they were like, no, that's evil. We would never support that. Yeah. And they were like, well, humans, it's different. And it's like, so you value animal lives more than human lives. Right. Right. I mean, that's insane. And in fact, it's the, the opposite. Now I respect and value animal lies, but what does the Bible say? How much more does God care for us than the sparrows or the flowers? Right? So, again, that doesn't devalue them, but it raises our value. And so I think that's, that's really important. And I, and I had to ask you, because I think that is a conversation that not many people are willing to have and really reflect on. Yeah. A lot of people wanna bury the, and what would you say, especially you're writing a book now, and as a fellow author, I know that when we write books, I talk about like people can bury their memories or keep them away as podcast hosts and authors. We are forced in order to do what we do, we have to revisit our memories often painfully. Yes. And in real time and in real detail. Mm-hmm. How have you been able to confront your past look at. The sin, the consequences, the pain, the suffering, the, the heartbreak. And how are you able to work on this book and, and host a show? Do you have to take breaks? Are there things you do for your mental health? Like how has it been confronting that? That's a good question. I realized writing a book is actually very healing to myself as well, because then I'm actually processing it. And I, as I'm writing, I was like, oh, God was here. You know, God was with me. He was weeping with me. And he's so kind that he doesn't ask you to rush that grieving process. Because a lot of times Christians, I think it's like, oh, everything will be fine. You know, like, God's got this, like, he's gonna like redeem it. And yes, yes, yes, absolutely true. But that doesn't mean that you can't. You can't grieve, you know what I mean? Like what is that verse grieving or, but still rejoicing or something like that. And as I was writing this chapter of my book, I was grieving that my dad, as I talked about earlier, my dad didn't protect me. He didn't like comfort, comfort me. Like that was a realization as I was writing a book. So I just encourage anybody who want to put their memories into paper. It's actually very healing for yourself. And my book is not your typical, you know, oh, I've got it all figured out. Christian book. Like this is the solution to all your problem book. I'm actually writing it from a standpoint where I am still struggling with low self-worth sometimes and eating disorder and. Anxiety and depression, and recently also self-harm. Like to me it's just like, I want to be honest because I want to, I want others to know that as Christians, we also struggle. It doesn't mean like all the struggles go away and if we struggle, that's how I felt when I struggled as a Christian. I felt a lot of shame because there's not a lot of stories where we are raw and real, right? Where Oh, as a Christian you can struggle with this. Oh, it's okay. Oh, it's okay to give you, to give grace to yourself because God has given you grace. Not to say that you can't stay there forever, obviously, right? But to just give you grace and to know that this process is a marathon and healing is not always linear. I don't know if that answered your question. So is the book called, maybe you can't tell the title yet and that's fine, but is it like the unspoken book? Something with unspoken? I think so, yes. Okay. I had a feeling. Yeah. And I think that is very powerful. I have found writing to be very healing as well as podcasting to be very healing. Yes. Even, especially as a host, but even if you're just someone who listens to podcasts, hearing people go through what I say is the number one faith booster besides reading scripture is community. Hearing other people's testimonies. Especially when you're down. Yes. And I think a lot of people fall into the trap of hearing other people's testimonies and being envious, being jealous. He's answering your prayers. He is not answering mine. Right. I'm sure we've felt that way. We've heard that. Mm-hmm. Especially when we look at, you're gonna answer their prayers. Them they, you know those people who are Mm. You know, you can't say. Right. It's like these people who are. Dare I say l less holy than me who read scripture Less than Me, who pray less than me. Right. Yeah. Uhhuh Uhhuh who have a, a weaker relationship with you. We get envious and prideful. Mm-hmm. Yes. But I, I try to look at, at the flip side, you know, for me, I try to be hopeful when I hear these testimonies, like, wow, look at God working in their life. And one thing that also helps is sometimes people in the faith can give you a different perspective. You know, just because we've read the whole Bible doesn't mean we have every perspective mastered when it comes to things that are happening in our life. Like you talked about, a lot of people want to have this. Well, if you're Christian, then you should do what the Bible says and rejoice through all times. Just because we know the Bible and are supposed to follow it doesn't mean it's easy to live it out, especially through hardship. Mm-hmm. I think. Mm-hmm. You know. What we can do is, and at least what has really changed in my life is like I still feel, I still grieve. I still have pain, I still have hardship. Yes. But I thank God for it, you know? And my thing is, I like to look at it is when everything's going wrong, I can blame God and abandon him. And if God is real and he is with me during that hardship and I abandoned him well, he's the only one who can really change anything then. Yeah. So for me, it never makes sense to abandon God and mm-hmm. One thing I like to say that a lot of people will say is, anti-Christian is it's okay to be angry or upset with God. You know, the Bible never says like you can't be or feel your human emotions toward God. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But when you communicate them with him, it should still be with respect and honesty. Yes. But it's just like your real parents, right? Yeah. You sometimes have falling out with your parents. Sometimes you raise your voice at your parents, right. But it's about, do you apologize and come back? Right. If you have unconditional love, if you love and respect each other, you'll work through it. And I think it's just like any relationship, any parenting, any friendship, right? It's not always easy, but you work through it together through communication. Number one, so many people want to shut down and run away from their relationship issues, whether it's with God, a parent or a friend. And that means there's no communication happening, and that means there can't be change. And one of the things is like we need to. Express to God what we're upset about, why we're angry. Yes. And I always say, God, I'm, I'm mad at you, but I am doing my best to try to understand what's going on, to try and be thankful and any way you can help me work through these feelings, please be there for me, even if I'm blaming you as a source of that. Mm-hmm. So I, I think it's really important to, like you said, to still feel those things. It doesn't mean you're not a good Christian or that you're failing. Right. Like, I think as long as you're growing and working on your relationship with God through those feelings, then you're doing what you're supposed to. And, yeah. One thing you talked about, which I need to get back to, which is did you ever talk to your dad again? Did you ever find your mom? Like, what happened with I have to know. I'm so curious. I'll have to buy your book to know. I like these questions. I love, I love this. Okay. My dad. Yes. I actually invited my dad to my, to our wedding in 2019 with my sister and my mom, which was so awkward because they both my mom and my dad just don't talk at all. So I remember inviting him and my mom just couldn't stand him, I guess. So she told me during our wedding day, I have to leave now. Like after I walked down the aisle, she walked me down the aisle and then she's like, okay, I have to leave now. So in my mind, I like, okay, the, the cake is the best part, right? I was like, you not gonna stay with the cake? But anyways, I invited him to our wedding and that was the last time I saw him in person. We wanted to do another wedding in Indonesia, but then COVID happened in 2020. Mm. But I still keep touch with my dad here and there. I don't talk to him as much because. Every time I talk, it's about my mom, you know? And then if I do talk to my mom, which I don't currently, it's about my dad. Same. So it's just like back and forth, back and forth. I was like, I don't have time and energy for this. I'm like, you guys need to talk directly. Like, I'm not cut the middleman. Okay. Like you guys need to talk directly. Yeah. And my mom, we tried so many times when we actually got married. We actually moved in with my mom and then it didn't work out. And then she said, I'm selling the house. You guys need to find a place to stay. So again, I felt abandoned again, right Over and over and over again. So I felt like, it's another thing I thought, like forgiveness means reconciliation, but learning that yes, you have to forgive because God forgives us. Right? And forgiveness actually sets you free. From anger and bitterness and just sets you free. But reconciliation is not always possible if that other person doesn't change. So I thought as a good Christian, I should just give my mom just chance after chance, after chance. And she always blew it. So at one point I was like, okay, this is not gonna work out. It's just gonna continue to hurt me because like a open wound, right? If you continue to like, like touch it or ECT it or whatever, it just, it won't get better. So I have learned that it's okay to forgive and love people from apart afar. So right now, yes, me and my mom are not talking because she, I don't think she cares because after even saying to my mom, you know, my sister's struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts and all that and all that. She doesn't care. So to me it's like, okay, you really don't care. So I can't, I think I not, I think I have forgiven her completely and my dad too, but it's hard for me to talk to her if I know my sister is in pain because of her, and she don't care. Right. And I can't really have an authentic relationship with you. Just like you said, like with God, like with any relationship. If we can't be authentic and safe, it's not a real relationship. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're, you're preaching and you know, I don't talk to my mother, and you and I have talked about that before, and yes, reconciliation and, and forgiveness. Right. We're not called to, to reconcile with everyone, which is, you know, that healing. We are called to forgive everyone. Yes. And that doesn't mean having them. In fact, I was featured in a book where I wrote about forgive and protect. You know, everyone says forgive and forget. And then people actually just forgive and resent. They bring up the grocery list, and I talked about actually forgive and protect, which is forgive, and then set boundaries to protect yourself. And maybe that boundary is no communication or that boundary is, you know, within a certain timeframe or a certain manner. And mm-hmm. You know, in that book, what I shared was a quote, which is, I'll paraphrase it here, but it's like, whoever would foster forgiveness and love covers up an offense, but whoever would repeat the matter separates even close friends, you know? Mm-hmm. So it's like. If you forgive and then you keep bringing stuff up or you move forward and with complaining without a solution on how to forgive and fix the problem, fix the past then it's just gonna lead to separation. And so I think those boundaries are important. And yes, if I'm tracking correctly, did your mom and dad, they got remarried correct. To each other? Were they married twice? They married? Yes. So they got, okay. So my mom actually eloped from Indonesia to marry my dad in Denmark. And then while she was pregnant with me, they had a big argument. So she decided to move back from Germany to Indonesia. And I didn't get to see my dad until I was seven. And then when she left, when I was 15, I believe, I think a couple years later, she divorced my dad. So they're divorced now. Okay. So yeah, they separated without divorce the first time technically. I think so. Okay. Yes. It doesn't matter. It's just small details that I'm, I'm caught up on, you know, and I wanna talk about as well, you've mentioned your sister quite a bit. She's a little bit younger than you, it sounds like. Yeah. And what has, and what have you observed, at least from conversation with her or being with her? Like how has this depression, anxiety, the mental health struggles affected her faith? Have you spoken to her about God and that kind of stuff? Like, what is that looking like? Huh. Okay. She was such a cheerful kid growing up until she was five. Until, yeah, our mom left. And so it's very heartbreaking for me to see her this way. A complete opposite. Very down, very insecure, you know? And we went to the same Christian school actually, but because. I believe she didn't have a lot of Christian around her. She said, I don't really believe in God because how could God let me go through all this suffering and right. And all that. And you know, so she's right now, she's a very, her heart has been hardened, but I pray for her that, you know, the Lord was often her heart. You receive the heart of flesh. Yes. And I actually connected her with my therapist, so she's actually talking to my therapist every, every week. So that has been helping her a little bit to gain confidence and to know, you know, that. She actually went to a facility in Germany for I think a week or two weeks straight, where you actually stay in that facility. And she did art therapy, she did music therapy, she did all kinds of therapy to help her depression to kind of go away. So that has been helping. But then once she stepped out of that, she went back to depression again. So it's just, it's hard. It's hard. It's not an easy journey. Well, and there's only one true therapist and that's God. Yes. You know, he's the only one true therapist and the only total healing we can have, you know? Yes. So I think that's important. And to wrap this all up, what I always like to ask any faith-based guest is if you could leave us with one Bible quote right now, what would that be? I know there's a lot of great ones, you know, but, sorry, I have so many. Just one right now. Yes. One. Ah, let me think. If you wanna give a top three, you can. Yeah. Well, my favorite verse is the Maniah three 17. The Lord is among you. He will save you with his mighty hand. He rejoices over you with gladness and with singing. That is my favorite voice. 'cause it displays God's kindness. God didn't create us because he needed us. You know, he created us because he desires us, and it's so crazy to me that he sent his son to left heaven, to leave heaven, to leave all the glory and all the Richs and power to die. For us so that we get to spend eternity with him. Like he doesn't need us now or in eternity, but he desires to spend time with us for all of eternity. That's why he came. So that's one of my favorite verses. And the other favorite verse would be Isaiah 40 31. I think something soaring about eagles, they will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not grow things. They will. So on the back of Eagle's wings? Yes. So actually it's a funny, okay, 1, 1, 1 more story. It's a funny story because as you are a runner too, right? You run too. Yes. I'm a a champion runner, but yes. Yes. Okay. Self proclaimed champion. I run for about one hour straight every other day. So I think that's pretty, pretty good qualification. Wow, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. But yeah, so I'm a runner and I haven't run for a long time because it's been crazy weather and my joints are not that great anymore. And so there was a Thanksgiving race and the, the Turkey trial, I felt the yes, I felt the Lord. Telling me, okay, go do that race. And I was like, Lord, are you sure? Because I haven't trained in months and it's gonna be windy and I can't wake up early and all these excuses, right? Right. Like Moses. But then he said, no, just go. And I was like, oh, okay, well if you want me to go wake me up two hours earlier because there's no way I can wake up that early. And he did actually. And I was like, oh crap. And then I was like, are you sure Lord? Again, I was like, are you sure Lord? And then as I was doing the CA Christian meditation called encounter, Isaiah 40 31 obviously popped up, and that is actually the verse that I wore on my running shirt, Isaiah 40 31. That's my racing shirt. And so I went there and everything just. Went so smooth. Like even the parking, 'cause usually, you know how races are parking is just like crazy. Mm-hmm. And so I found a parking spot so easy five minutes before starting start. I mean the, the guns start whatever. And I was first in the park for the female. I was like, there's no way that I could do this. Like, I didn't train, I didn't sleep well. You know. But it just shows me again, like if God calls you, I think this is what he want me to be reminded of and all of us. That if he calls you to do something, he's gonna do it. He is going to do it right. You just have to trust in obey and just do it. But it's his power. Oh, another verse that copped up in my mind. It's not by power. What was it? It's not by, was it power but my spirit something. Do you know that verse? It's not by my power. Through my spirit or something like that. Yes. So yeah. Anyways, those are the verses. Did you win the race? I did. For female, yes. Awesome. Awesome. That's that's great. Do you do any races? Do you do marathons? I used to back in the day. I don't wanna sound old, but back in the day. But yeah, it's been a while. I've been getting back into this year I wanna do five Ks and I've moved into a different direction in life because I want to test my strength as well. So I'm doing obstacle runs are on my radar for this year. So, you know, running three to five miles with obstacles all along the way. And that's tough. I was gonna put a marathon or a half marathon on the list this year, but I, I've decided to push it back to next year to focus on five Ks this year 'cause Nice. It's been a few years, but the last time I ran a five KI had taken two minutes off of my time. So that's a, that's a What's your time? What's your time? 5K my record. 1845 or something like that. That's so fast. It's like six. What? What's six? What's minute, mile pace? So my, my rec well by itself for a mile, I'm under five minutes. It's like four 50 something, but I don't do short distances there. For there. I don't do those. I do, I have to, I run between, it has to be at minimum 3.2 miles, but usually I run between five and 10 miles. Because that is just a nice pace in the sweet spot. Yes. Right, right. I agree. After 10 miles, it's like, I don't really wanna do anymore. Yeah. I like, no, I'm good. But it depends if I'm, you know, reaching that 10 mile mark and I hear the voice of David Goggin saying, were you gonna give up at 10 miles? You're, you're not even halfway. Then I, you know, I'll go around another 10 miles, but. You know, it's, it's amazing. And I wanna share, actually, for people who don't know this, I love this fact there is a supernatural speed, a race, so to speak, in the Bible That happens. Yes. And most people don't know about it, but it's, I'll read it to you right here. The power of the Lord came on Elijah and tucking his cloak into his belt. He ran ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel and he literally runs faster than the, some of the finest horses that the king had. And he's just like, right. And most people don't know this. You know, there's so many cool things in the Bible that people just don't know 'cause they haven't read it. Like the, the historical accounts are full of amazing miracles, and we see amazing miracles every day, which is one thing that I've discussed a lot lately on the show, which is people are like, where are the miracles of the Old Testament? And in the New Testament, they're all around us. We just have taken them for, so granted we credit mm-hmm. Medical signs with so many miracles. Yes. We credit so many things and it's like. There are a lot of miraculous healing that happen. No equipment, no doctors. Mm-hmm. I've had people on the show who had their cancer disintegrated, you know, so, wow. It is truly amazing. And I just think there are too many of us who are of little faith, you know? And we, yes. I just pray that God will continue to open the eyes of everyone around me and across the world to all the miracles that happen during natural disasters during day-to-day life, you know? Mm-hmm. And I, long ago was working on a book that was about how our day is filled with micro blessings. And I was talking about small blessings adding up, and there are so many small little miracles every day. And in fact, waking up is the very first one. Yes. And most people would take that for granted. And yes, after you wake up, it's whatever good health you have or whatever health you have at that time is a miracle on its own. You know, every moment we're breathing, I could be struck down with lightning right now. Right. And I, I wasn't, that's a miracle right there. More of a miracle if I do get struck lightning now, but I hope not. You know, that's not the kind of miracle I'll try to showcase. Yeah. I don't have metal rods under my hat to attract lightning, so, you know. Yeah, right. But I want to just leave us with your podcast you know, unspoken with, with You. It's a great show. You had an amazing episode with Mr. Whiskey, one of my favorite episodes. Yes. And I agree. We've had a lot of amazing guests. Some of your guests have also been on my show, so that was cool to see the different conversations. Mm-hmm. And I want you to tell us a little bit about the direction God is moving you in and you know who should check it out. Yeah. Thanks for allowing me to share. So unspoken season two is all about being raw real because we are already redeemed and I'm looking for stories that are still in the middle, that are still waiting for God to. To really show, not show his power, but it's not stories where like, oh, I went through this and now God, see this is the purpose of it. Like I'm looking for stories where people are still in the middle of the struggle. So my last guest, Alicia, she actually is still trying not, yeah, is still trying to get clean and might face homelessness again. But what really inspires me is that her faith and her love for Jesus is on fire. And to me it's like, wow, that's when the world, I think really believes that God is really more precious and better than anything and anyone else in this world because why would anyone hold onto God if, if everything falls apart? Right? And so I'm looking for those stories because also a lot of people are going in the in between. A lot of people don't have their finished testimonies yet, so I want. People to have hope that victory and freedom is possible where they are right now, not some in some distant future. So yeah, that's what unspoken is about for season two. Right. And you know, we're surrounded by enemies and sometimes we don't see that God is preparing a table for us in the midst of them all. Yes. That our cup is gonna overflow with blessings. And I, I am gonna do. Amen. A plug for one of the books. I was in Warriors of Hope because you talk about like how powerful these testimonies are. And I remember at that event when we launch, we did the book launch. I was the host at mc of the event, and I was standing there in real time introducing survivors of domestic violence, rape human trafficking. And these women who were sharing their story for the first time ever. Some of them all, most of them. Shared the name of Jesus Christ and thanked him. These were women who had to clean up their own blood from the floor after being beaten by abusive partners. Mm-hmm. Who were raped as young as kindergarten age. And they were all praising Jesus Christ. People who, out of everyone in the world, had all the reason to not believe in God. And so seeing people who are actively struggling or who have been through such right. Awful hardships. Mm-hmm. Praise the Lord. Like it really does give me hope. And I, I hope that this episode has given hope to everyone listening. And if it has, I highly, you know, ask that you would share with other people because. That's what we are to do with the faith and with our testimonies again, is to share and uplift one another. Not to push one another down, but to uplift one another and bring us all toward Christ and God closer each and every day through an interaction. So Aggie, thank you so much for your time today. You know, it was a really valuable conversation and I have a lot of respect for what you do and I see God blessing you abundantly with your work and I'm very excited for when your book comes out. We'll have you back on the show. We'll do a little yes. Book launch. Yes. We can check out the cover and the title and you know, it'll be a great thing. So I look forward to connecting with you again. Thank you Mr. Whiskey. I absolutely love this conversation. I think, yeah, nobody asked me such raw questions before, so I really love this conversation. Thank you for sharing, allowing me to share.