Doctors Said NO But God Said YES: Modern Miracles & Ministry With David Ebel

Today, I sit down with David Ebel to talk about one of the most powerful themes in the Christian life: when the world says no, God can still say yes. Mr. Ebel shares his testimony of being born with a severe birth defect, enduring chronic pain from a young age, and living under a medical outlook that gave him little hope for the future. His story becomes a living example of God’s mercy, divine purpose, and the power of faith when life looks impossible.

In this conversation, we get into Mr. Ebel’s battle with depression, alcoholism, hopelessness, and multiple suicide attempts before an unexpected encounter with Jesus changes everything. We talk about repentance, spiritual surrender, the difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow, and how God can intervene even when someone is at the absolute edge of giving up. This episode speaks directly to people dealing with mental health struggles, addiction, pain, and the feeling that their story is already over.

I also discuss how God’s calling does not always come in the way we expect, and how His "yes" often leads us down paths we never planned for ourselves. Mr. Ebel shares how that calling led him into ministry, evangelism, children’s outreach, family-focused faith work, and a lifetime of serving others through testimony, creativity, and the Gospel. We also talk about miracles, Christian courage, spiritual obedience, and why believers are called to plant seeds of truth even when they do not immediately see the harvest.

If you need encouragement in your faith, a reminder that God still works through broken people, or a testimony about surviving darkness and finding purpose in Christ, this episode is for you. This is a conversation about Christian testimony, suicide prevention, addiction recovery, healing, ministry, and the reality that no diagnosis, no failure, and no past sin is greater than the grace of God.

https://www.davidwebel.com/

Website: https://coupleonukes.com

Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Nulu Knives: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode, A couple of nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I apologize in advance. I'm a bit under the weather, so this voice is not as crisp as it could be, and I'm not even in my studio because I'm traveling still. So I apologize in advance for audio and lighting, but the focus point here is the conversation.
We're gonna be talking about God saying yes. And I think a good precursor to this conversation is that God's yes is not our yes all the time. It's not always the way we want God to say yes. And sometimes his nos are yeses in the future. So we're gonna get into that conversation. And something so powerful, a lot of us, uh, drive a motorized vehicle and maybe we've done maintenance on it or we just drove it off the lot and there's a recall.
And it's frustrating. It's like, pay good money for this and this is my car, my baby. Some people name their cars and there's a recall and they're heartbroken. But what if the life saving operation performed on you was recalled? What if that was taken away and banned even? What is more important, uh, than our lives after God?
Right? And so we're gonna get into that conversation today. But when the doctors say no, God says yes here with the founder of that podcast, a photographer, a man of God. And we're gonna get into a great conversation, Mr. David Ebel. So great to have you here. And could you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
Okay. Well, hi, my name is David Ebel. Uh, I'm a retired pastor. We, my wife and I served in over 50 years of ministry. Um, we were, we had the privilege of, uh, ministering internationally. Um, we've had 29 addresses. We have three kids and nine grandkids. So we've had a, we've had a good foundation. But the beginning of my story was, um, basically that my sister died of polio at age four, and I was the makeup baby, and my mom did not recover from her loss.
Mm-hmm. So, uh, when I was born, I was born dying. I had a birth defect and they, in 1952, there was no way to cure it. Their answer was to fi ll me full of morphine and let me die. And my mother would have no part of that. She already lost one kid. She wasn't losing another, so she demanded they fi nd something and they did a medical experiment, which four months later became illegal to do to humans because the side effects were so profound.
Birth defects, sterility, dwarfi sm, and a hundred percent mortality by 20. And um, so, and then at age six, I picked up juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, which means I've lived in
chronic pain ever since. So littlest kid in the school, bullied like crazy, couldn't compete, couldn't defend myself. Uh, it was a rough life for almost 20 years.
Went to college on handicap money and a year and a half in trying to be normal with a body that didn't wanna be normal. Uh, I had to, I had to, had to leave school because I, I wasn't healthy enough to, to stay. And I began a down downward spiral that, um. Ended up just about destroying me. And three days before my fi fth attempt on my life, I went to church 'cause the girl was cute, found God, and God called me into, uh, sharing God's love and, and, and reaching people with his love.
Amen. You know, and obviously for those listening, not watching, Mr. Evil is not 20 years old. He is, uh, a little more 74 years than that, right? So, uh, successfully outlived that mortality rate by signifi cant, signifi cant amount. So if. I mean, glory to God for that. And I love your story because already it sets up the foundation of what I call, you know, ultimately, none of us are justifi ed before God.
You know, if we were put at the foot of cross and told to explain ourselves to Jesus Christ, who among us could, you know, justify ourselves, but from the human perspective? You are what we would consider someone who is very justifi ed to be a victim, to complain, to feel abandoned by God. All these negative emotions, right?
That people with medical diffi culties, relationship diffi culties with all these bombardments of life from this world, and especially the enemy. We know there's powerful spiritual warfare going on, increasingly so, you know, how did you deal with these thoughts if you had them at all? Well, I think for the fi rst 20 years I didn't deal with it.
I had a pity party and nobody came. I, I was miserable by myself. And when people got too close and they saw how miserable I was, they, they avoided me clearly. And, uh, then the, my mother di died an alcoholic. It's in my genes. And, um, so a friend said, well, let's go, let's go have some fun. And he brought me to a bar and I, I, I lo, I had promised myself I'd never drink.
And that night I drank. Mm. It was about four months later, I couldn't stop drinking. I was already hiding it in the rafters of the house. It was, wow. It was not one, it was not one of those things that I, I saw coming. It just slammed me and I, I was owned. And, um, with it came severe depression with it came, um, the, the, the feeling of complete loss of failure.
Of, uh, not being able to produce anything or be of any of any value to anybody and, um, in that condition, um, it was easier to, to look at leaving this world in the way I was with all the pain I had as the pain increased every year, uh, than it was to consider staying around and fi guring it out because I didn't know who Jesus was.
Uh, at the funeral of my sister, who was four years old when she died of polio, the pastor's sermon said that the sins of the parents fall on the children indicating that my parents were not holy enough, and that's why their 4-year-old daughter was taken from them. Hmm. Well, they denomination terminated him and took his ordination, but they did nothing in 1952 to restore my family.
Hmm. Right, right. So I was raised without, uh, there was, you know, I mean, there was a Jesus hanging, hanging on a go on a turquoise cross, uh, on my sister's bedroom wall. But that's the, and when you go to the funeral home, Jesus was always knocking on a door, but no one ever let him in. But that's all the Jesus I knew.
Mm-hmm. I was 20 and didn't know that God's last name wasn't Damn. So, um, you know, uh, right. It was, it was easy. Really easy to get that. What's the use kind of a mindset, you know, why try and, um, when I went to church, I was planning my suicide for Saturday and the girl met me on Tuesday and convinced me but to go to church with her Wednesday and God went, um, basically zap.
I went from drunk for three years and high on top of it, too sober in about 30 seconds. Wow, I, that's such a beautiful story and I wanna unpack some of the harsher realities of it because, you know, the show has never been afraid to tackle those very dark subjects because they're a part of this life, of this fallen world, and they are a part of our journey of faith too.
You know, God is, is always with us, uh, but sometimes we block 'em out. I wanna talk about, you mentioned that being your, uh, fi fth attempt at suicide. What stopped the fi rst four? Well, I, the fi rst three, I took an entire prescription of, uh, of, uh, antidepressants and I drank a fi fth of scotch and drove around.
Um, needless to say, God protected me from me three different times. Didn't even get a scratch in my car. Wow. And the fourth? Yeah, the fourth time was the day before Christmas. I worked all day, hadn't eaten, and I picked up some guys that were friends of mine and we went joy riding the day before Christmas, around midnight.
And um, we got on this back road and there was a bridge and it was over a river. And I thought, well, here's my end chance to end it. So I stomped on the gas. We hit a hundred miles an hour when the car went airborne into the river. Problem was in Michigan. On the day before Christmas, the river was frozen solid and so there was nothing but mud in the bottom of the river.
So I hit the mud, ripped a tree out about the size of a dinner plate, and, uh, they drag, they dragged my car out with a tow hook and I drove it home going, stupid, stupid, stupid. You can't even kill yourself. What good are you? And, uh, so soon as I got sober enough to think straight, I began to plan to buy a rifl e and pay payments on it.
Tell everybody it was my dad's hunting gift and, uh, plan my suicide. This time with a gun, I fi gured I couldn't lose. And, you know, had it, had it come to Saturday, it, I would've, I would've lost everything. Hope, future plans, all the things God had planned for me. They were all there. I just didn't know it.
And nobody had taken any time in 20 years to explain that Jesus was real. That we were custom made by God to love that we, we not look the same on the outside. But when God looks at us, he looks at us. He created us from the inside out. So from the inside out, we're just like him. He made us in his image.
So the fact that we don't look alike is nothing. The fact that we, we, we are created alike to love is everything. And once I've realized that once I, God touched me and I got sober, uh, instantly, then I had this urgent need to repent. But I didn't know what repent meant. I just knew I had to say I was sorry.
Mm-hmm. And I was in a little church where everybody yelled. I mean, there was, it was if it wasn't Amen, it was something, and it was all loud. And so the two guys at the altar on the other side were screaming, hallelujah. Thank you, Jesus. As loud as they could. So I thought, that's how you prayed. So I scream, Jesus, if you're real, I give you six months to prove yourself.
If you're real, I will serve you with all my life. And if not, I know where the gun is. And suddenly I was sober. Suddenly I felt forgiven. I felt loved. For the fi rst time in my life, I didn't feel like I had to perform or do anything to be loved. I wasn't doing it for approval. I was doing it because I already felt the love.
And once I felt forgiven and I repented and asked God to forgive me, he forgave me. And then a little while later, I'm, I, I laid on my back on the fl oor of the little chapel. I couldn't
even sit up anymore. I was just empty like a fl at balloon after you let all the air out. And, uh, I was just worshiping what little I knew how to do, and this voice came to me and said, my son David.
And I looked around and there was nobody there. I looked hard and then I, so I just laid back and went, okay, what is this? Says my son David. I've called you with an everlasting love and I've called you to preach my word. I've called you with this everlasting love, and I've called you to share my love with people and preach my word.
If you will love my people and preach my word, I will change thousands of lives. If you will love my people and preach my word, I'll change hundreds of thousands of lives. Will you love? Yes, I will Love. Will you preach? Teach me how? That was the end of the discussion. The two guys that were on the other side praying, came over and said, hi, I'm Gary and Tony and you belong to us now we're gonna teach you how to live for God.
They were converted hippies, and if you looked at my clothes and my hair, I was a hippie. And the inside it was just a terrifi ed young guy trapped in a, in a, in a world where nothing made sense. And they, over the next year, they were private. Like I got my own private team challenge, they. Going on each side.
They kept me from myself and from all the bad decisions. And we went to church seven days a week somewhere and I learned how to serve God and I learned how to share Jesus. And I learned how to love people with real love, not just, um, I chemistry you, the kind that says I love you enough, that I give my life for.
With that calling came ministry starting with children, then families, and, uh, now we've been evangelists who've hit 49 states in 20 countries, which is pretty good for a guy that wasn't supposed to have children ever and be dead by 20. So, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I live a Grateful Life. For those listening, not watching as Mr.
Evil was telling his stories right there, his historical accounts of suicide attempts, my eyes got pretty watery because you know some people will hear this. Yeah. And not take anything away. They'll say, oh, it's just chance or whatever. But for me, I heard so loudly, mercy. Like sometimes I, and I wanna preach with more love, but sometimes I feel like we are not worthy at all of God's mercy.
Like sometimes I, you know, doing the work I do, I see the rock bottom of humanity, but knowing that mercy that protects us from our own selves, I mean, there's, there's no greater love than that. And it, it just overwhelmed me when you were speaking about
that because it. There's so much mercy in our lives that we take for granted that we don't realize.
And that's a, that's a big, powerful moment. But there are so many small moments each and every day, uh, where we're that close to death or falling into this world, and we don't even realize that God is right there protecting us. And it's just so powerful to be reminded of that. We often forget that, and it's important to be reminded of that We always say.
Where are these Old Testament miracles? Where are these pillars of fi re and, and these storms? Where are these miracles? But there are miracles every day in the world of the medical world, in our lives. You know, they're not always these big supernatural phenomenons. Sometimes they are the things we've been praying for.
Sometimes they're unexpected blessings. These small blessings add up and these small mercies add up. And, and God is just so loving, uh, to protect us from our own selves, even, even when we don't see him or know him. I love the historical account of Esther shares deeply about even when we don't acknowledge God, even when we don't recognize God or say his name, he's there moving things in our favor and blessing us.
And it's just so, uh, refreshing and powerful to me, and I I hope it has touched someone here today. You talk about repentance and, you know, uh, a big difference is it's even, you know, written in the Bible. I'll paraphrase it here, but the difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow, you know, and I, I have experienced that godly sorrow like that true.
Repentance that, and I don't wanna preach, you know, shame and guilt and regret, but like that's what you will feel in that, in that moment before you surrender it to Christ and, and know that it was already taken care of for us. But like that weight, like I have felt the physical weight of sin and I can't imagine, you know.
Uh, we're approaching Good Friday here, actually, and I saw online people were posting workout videos of carrying crosses like Jesus did, minus the weight of the sin of the world. And I have felt the own weight of my own sins. I couldn't imagine carrying more than that. You know? So people, if you've never experienced that godly sorrow, not that worldly sorrow.
It is a powerful thing. Uh, but there is deliverance and salvation of it, you know, through the Lord Jesus Christ. And I, I know what you're talking about, where I've had that
moment where. Things just change like a zap, you know, like one second you're in this life, and then suddenly, you know, it really is the spirit of the Lord and you just have to surrender yourself to it.
And oftentimes we block our own blessings by trying to be in control, by trying to plan everything out. You know, everyone, even nonbelievers know what is written in the Bible, which is that God's ways are not our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. His plans are for us to prosper, not perish.
And you know, I've done. A lot of content on God opens and closes different doors in our lives. We've heard that a lot, and you know, things don't look, as I mentioned in the very beginning of episode. Our yes isn't always the yes we're expecting. And I couldn't help but even chuckle a little bit about, I thought of, uh, Samuel, you know, when, when he, he called God and Samuel was like, who is that?
And he gets up and he goes and talks to the priest and he goes back to bed and he is like, wake up. I'm trying to talk to you. You know, sometimes it is that audible voice and other times I highly emphasize people with a spirit, a discernment to search this world for God, you know, uh, among us and with us, you know, through scripture.
Through music, through the people in our lives. God says yes in many different ways. God talks to us and calls us in many different ways. And you know, I never expected to be a podcaster to work in suicide prevention, to be a nuclear operator. Sometimes God takes us through a totally unexpected path in life.
Uh, but you know, you just have to say yes. You don't even need to know what God is gonna do with you. He just wants you to say yes, and he's gonna take care of it. Absolutely. It was interesting when you were saying, you know, where are the, the, the Old Testament miracles. I remember once my wife and I were beginning kids ministry, we, we, we met a pastor who, um, his church was more with the stand down, sit, sit down, stand and kneel, kind of church.
Very, very quiet, respectful, but he insisted on bringing me and my wife and our. Puppet performance person into his chapel. We set up a old style castle in the middle of his, his, where his pulpit would be, and did puppets and, and, and, and we had fun with the, the congregation. They loved it. And then, then I said, now it's time to get serious.
And I gave my story. And when I got done, uh, there was a voice from the back of the room, I gotta say something. Everybody jumped because this was Dr. Aaron. Dr. Aaron
says, I just want you to know that everything he said was true. I'm his physician. I'm the one that diagnosed his birth defects. I'm the one who recognized and, and, and, and explained to all of his pain.
And for him to stand here today, married with a child, and to tell you about this. It's gotta be God, because otherwise I would never open my mouth. You've never heard me talk in church. But today I can't be quiet because I was there and I witnessed it. And he says, miracles. They don't stop just because the calendar changes.
They stop when we stop believing. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, to the day he died, um, he, he would tell my story. I didn't even know that he kept telling my story, but later from other people we had in common, I found out that one of his favorite stories to tell was me on Sunday morning with my puppets in his church.
Wow. I think that's so beautiful. And you know, you talk about being called into ministry. I'd like to unpack that journey a little bit more. Like you said, it was unexpected, it doesn't. I guess it comes with an instruction manual, but it also doesn't, you know, and so can you tell us a little bit about that journey?
Well, for me, since I, I did, when I got, when I graduated high school, somebody sent me a Bible. Just a Bible, no words, no note, nothing, just a Bible. Amen. And I put it in a, put it in a drawer, fi guring, well, I'll fi gure it out someday, and never touched it again. It, it meant nothing to me. I had no idea. I was not raised with church.
I was not raised with God. I was not raised with any of it. So to me it was just one of those things. Yeah, Uhhuh, an aunt sent that to me and, uh, didn't think of it again till the night. I gave my heart to Jesus. Then I had this hunger to know God's word. I don't know where it came from. All of a sudden it was there.
It was like. A good ex example was, I remember when I met the girl who became my wife. Mm. I met her and when we fi rst met, there was nothing. I mean, she did treated me kind of like I was just any other, I could have been a wall and got the same attention. Right. And, but I, all, all I wanted to do was to get to know her as a sister in Christ.
I was a newer believer. I wasn't looking for girlfriends. I was looking to fi gure out how to live like a Christian man. How do I do it and please Jesus, and still keep my morals straight. Hmm. Because they weren't straight before I gave my life to life to Jesus. So this was all brand new ground, UNF furrowed.
Uh, and I, so I was trying, and it ended up being that, um, I ended up taking her to church. And before that service, that evening was done, we knew that something long term is gonna happen. We didn't know the details, but the light went on and it scared both of us because, um, you know, she'd not had a great dating life.
And my, my dating life was really not much of a dating life. It was more of a recreational moment life. Mm-hmm. And, um, so as we, as we begin our life together. We both, my wife got gave her life to Christ at when she was 14 and felt a call to be a pastor's wife, and I was 20 and had got a call to be something when I had no call to be anything but dead up until that moment.
So I didn't have any theology. I didn't have any idea what was in the Bible. I had no clue what I was getting into, but I knew that I loved God and I wanted to please him. So I, I made it my business to fi gure out, to drive my friends nuts, fi nding out how to love God and how to please him. And you know, at times they'd say, slow down, slow down.
You're going too fast. I can't slow down. I've waited 20 years to fi nd this out. I wanna know it now. Mm-hmm. And so from that came the mission to reach kids for Christ because I, I really believed that if somebody had reached me when I was. 12 or 13. Between 13 and and 20, my life would've been profoundly different, but nobody told a hundred percent.
I feel the same way, very deeply. I, the fi rst time I read the Bible end to end changed my life, of course. And I encourage everyone to read it end to end. So many believers just read parts of it, bits and pieces, but the full historical account, the intersections, the overlaps, the fulfi llment, the grand narrative, it will change everything for you, trust me, or rather trust God.
And what I'll say is. You know, after I fi nished reading it, there was weeping, there was lamentations, there was regret refl ections on, it almost made me frustrated with God and the people around me. 'cause I was like, why couldn't you have told me this sooner? God? Like, and maybe I wouldn't have listened.
Right? I mean, we can't say that we would've listened or received it. Yeah. I believe God wasn't mad at. I wasn't mad at God. I was mad at the people around me who I found out were Christians and never said anything. Right. That's the people I was frustrated with because when I, I started telling people I gave my heart to Jesus.
Well, I grew up with it. You knew me in junior high school and high school, and you never told me. Well, I was embarrassed, so you allowed me to go through all that hell, because you were embarrassed. Mm-hmm. It's amazing how they disappear when you do that. I just didn't have the, I didn't have the sensitivity to realize.
That I was, I, I, I didn't need to hit them with a two by four. I could have just looked at 'em and said thanks, and I would've, I got, I probably got the same attention, right? Um, but I say all that, but I wanted to make sure no other kid ever got to 20 years old without knowing that God loved him. I know that he valued them and he created them to love, and he had a incredible plan.
All they had to do was just trust him. Right. And you know, the Bible, so many mistakes that I made. There was something in the Bible against it or teaching of it or about it. And even if you're a non-believer, the Bible is a historical account full of wisdom. I mean, it is. I, it is very hard for people to look at the Bible, read it and say, this is immoral, this is bad.
Right. People will take bits and pieces, but overall, like it is a, a good, wise book for instruction and it teaches people to be good people and oftentimes it's like, what do you give up the. You know, temptations of this world, which ultimately aren't that good for you. Drugs, alcohol, and even with alcohol, it's not giving up alcohol, it's giving up drunkenness and folly with it.
You know, wine is a mock, or beer is a brother, whoever is led astray by them. It doesn't say that drinks them is a fool, morally corrupt person. Whoever is led astray, you know? So everything the Bible teaches, you know, it isn't just like, hate this world, hate your fl esh. Get rid of it. It teaches a balance that is so important.
I teach a lot about biblical masculinity and the balance between not being women, but not being these toxic, abusive, aggressive men that society wants us to be. The Bible teaches you to serve one another if, if we all actually follow the Bible, our world could be fi xed pretty easily and there's always gonna be fl aws in it, but it could be.
What God, uh, wants it to be within that, that, you know, this fallen world that we're in, and I just like you, I regret it, and I hope that the podcast and your podcast reaches people with the word that the social media clips, that everything we do has a chance to save a life. Like you said, God told you like, all I need is this one person.
You in your case. And I can reach these many people, you know? And if we reached as many people with good social media clips about the Bible in the word as we did with the
ones that are racist, sexualized, and hateful, the world could be a changed place. So I agree a hundred percent. And I was so frustrated with the people around me, especially my, my parents, who you.
I teach a lot about the difference between teaching and telling. And a lot of people are told religion, they're not taught religion. You know, they don't get the why, the understanding, the relationship. They just get information overload. Here's the rules, here's the Bible, not, this is why it matters. And that's why I talked earlier about the grand narrative.
This is what the foundation of Old Testament builds up in the New Testament. I know so many people who say the Old Testament is, is, you know, Tom Foolery, don't read it. Just read the New Testament. Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's not true. The Old Testament is such a powerful foundation, but I also know people who only read the Old Testament and now they're lacking the salvation, the fulfi llment.
So it's so important and I, I really appreciate you trying to reach children. Our, our duty as the people who didn't get that. You know, upbringing. I truly believe it's our role to be those mentors. And I want to go back to, it ties into bystander, you know, being a bystander, and Ezekiel speaks against that.
God speaks to Ezekiel about that. He says, I'm going to make you the watchman of Israel. You are going to tell the people whether they listen or fail to listen, because they are option people who will not listen. You are assigned to go tell them the word and what to do. And if they don't do it, then it's on them.
But if you do not tell them the word and they are not saved, that blood is on your hands. And I will hold you accountable. But if you tell them and they fail to listen, then you have done your part. The Bible tells us not to be bystanders, but so many of us are because of cowardness embarrassment. The feelings of this world pride, you know, um, so many Christians wanna live in a bubble.
Of just other Christians. They don't want to go out and spread the message to non-believers, to atheists. They don't want to have those diffi cult conversations, but that is what we are called to do, to go and make disciples of all nations to be courageous. God gave us Somos a spirit of self-control and of boldness and courage, and so I think it's important, even if.
You need to go behind a screen and podcast or start locally or go on a global mission, whatever God calls you to, you just have to answer it. I mean, I think of, of Jonah, he did not want to go to Nineveh. I wouldn't want to go to Nineveh and there are nine uss everywhere on this world, far worse than them to a degree.
And so I think, you know, we need to answer that calling and help serve one another, especially the youth. I agree. It's interesting to me, having done all these different things when I, when God spoke to me to, to, to love the kids, um, I went and found a guy who did magic, not supernatural. The, the gadget stuff, you know?
Right. You buy the package in the mail and, and you learn how to the fool people visually. Uh, and I turned it into gospel magic, uh, if you will, Bible stories, you know, and, and, and it keeps, it kept the attention of the kids. Then we added to it, uh, puppetry and, uh, eventually, uh, storytelling. And uh, uh, at one point I found a professional clown who was willing to teach me how to do clowning.
And I realized that what the one time I, when I, when I was a brand new believer, they had me dress up as a Cloudifi cation Bible school and the kids couldn't get enough. So here's my, here's my, my foot in the door to tell 'em about Jesus was to have that. They, they come in, they laugh with the clown, they have a great time, and then you tell 'em your, about your best friend.
And it, it, the fi rst time I did it, I did it for, at our little church where I got saved and we had 12 kids come forward. And in a church of, of 40 12 kids is a lot right. And, um, so, but out of that spun into more and more and bigger and better. And at one point we were, my wife and I were on the road for 12 years internationally, 49 states and 20 countries sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with children and their families.
We wouldn't even schedule children. Only we, because we learned that if you sent the kids. It was totally different than if you went with the kids. Mm. They saw the kids. The kids could watch you laugh and have fun and be involved. That told them a different story than I'll pick you up at seven 30, be ready.
And so we, we, we wouldn't schedule it if we wouldn't get to whole families. As a result, our, our congregation size on a Sunday morning might have 40, but by the end of Friday night, we'd have 400. Mm. And you know, why was that? Because we, I learned that when you, people laugh and they relax and they have a little fun, they don't distrust at that moment.
They relax a little bit. The, the, the wall, the heart gate of, as I call it, the, the gate opens and trust begins. So then when you tell them about the love of God and the mercy of God and the forgiveness of God, they're listening. They're not just going through the motions. So then at the end, when you offer them a chance for you to have, would you like to meet my best friend?
Would you like to be forgiven for everything you've ever done wrong? And you just share that in that say, with all the eyes closed, if someone wants Jesus, raise your hand and you watch 50 people raise their hands of all different ages. We've had people get saved that were on death row. We've had other people who, who gave their hearts to God, who had never said the word darn.
Because it doesn't, it is not the act, it's the intent of the heart. Mm-hmm. What out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And so many times our, we are, we're, we're playing the role, but the heart is still fo festering inside. And until the love of God gets in there and the blood that Jesus shed washes away that sin and, and cleans things up, they can't be more than they already are.
But once they take that step of faith and trust and ask Jesus. Through his blood to wash them, clean for the Holy Spirit to lead 'em and guide them, then their life begins anew, and that's change what changed everything. That's why I can comfortably say that God wasn't wrong. There was, there has been thousands of people who've gotten saved through the, the simple work of what we've done.
Not that no one else did it, but we, we were obedient and it worked. Matter of fact, there's a picture behind me, I, I'm sure you may see, of the clowns, right? That was me. I was, I ended up being a Ringling certifi ed master clown, the fi rst Christian one in the world.
I didn't plan it that way, but one day I was doing the kids' work and a professional clown stopped in to see me do my thing and invited me to a clown convention. There was something I never heard of, but they, they wanted me to come. So I went and, um, found others who were much like me, but they weren't committed as I was.
They believed, but they weren't jumping off cliffs. They were, they were being secret agents for God. And unfortunately there are no secret agents, so they were fooling themselves because God didn't ask for half of you. He, he, he gave his all, you give your all. That's the deal. So the, the short of it is that, uh, I've learned a lot from that and improved the way I did it.
I'm of the opinion that, um, I, God gave me a slogan very early in my faith, that it says God didn't send his second cousin Louis to the cross. He sent his best. How dare we offer less? Amen. I like that. And so whatever I did, I did it with that level of intensity. I learned and learned, and learned and learned, and I'm still learning, and I'm still practicing, uh, because it's not something you do in, in put it on a shelf.
But along the way, I learned ventriloquism, I learned balloon animals, I learned all kinds of stuff, and I used all of it as venues to get people's attention. And then I could share the, the, the transparent, genuine love of God. And with the open heart gate, they receive it at levels they never dreamed. And that's not me.
I'm just the mailman delivering the mail. The message was sent by God. I just am the one telling them at that moment. So it's, you know, I can't keep me straight. I need God to keep me straight. So how can I tell people how to, how to, how to be straight? My job is to tell, tell, tell them who loves them enough that he would love to help them to live a straight, clean, wonderful life, a free life, a, a life without his, with the least amount of pain possible.
You can't say it's gonna be a painless life or it's gonna be easy because you read scripture and it's not gonna be easy. Not at all. But, but you can live at peace in your situation. You know, for me it's physical pain. I live in, I've been in physical pain since I was six. God touched me and I'm better.
But better is, it is degrees. It's not on and off. But I, I, when I gave my life to God, it was like, okay, the fi rst half is over. Second half is yours, God. So I'm going to, I'm going to step out in faith and, and jump off that cliff and you better catch me. 'cause otherwise I'm going down. I, I, I have no plan B and I'm not looking for one.
And miracle after. Miracle after miracle. Here I am 74 years old. And, um, you know, doing podcasts now because my body won't let me run around all over the place anymore, but I can, using podcasts, I can reach people I would never get to meet. And what an honor and privilege it is to have that opportunity. I agree, and in fact, I was on your podcast and we spoke about, I shared Aggie Park, Christian Beauty Pageant Queen and how she's in the world of pageantry to evangelize and spread the gospel.
Uh, my approach is very different than yours. I'm a very, uh, I tell the hardcore truth of the Old Testament and how that sets up the grand narrative because I work with people.
Coming out of divorce, military addiction. Suicide. And so I take them to the places of the Bible that had that, that were in those moments, you know?
And that's not a good approach for children, right? But it's good for the people I work with. And I say that, oh yeah. So everyone listening understands that your calling is unique. You know, God made us so unique and our calling is going to be different. And what we're talking about is different forms of communication and connection.
God might call you to do. Artwork, sculpting, gardening, all in the name of evangelism. You know, everything you do do for the glory and purpose of serving God. You know, to paraphrase there, and I think you know, Johnny t is the host of Refuge Freedom Stories podcast, helping people, uh, you know, real lives changed by the power of God.
Everywhere he goes, every phone call he has, every grocery, uh, clerk, he says, is there anything I can pray with you about? He's not afraid to. Take advantage of every opportunity to maybe plant a seed of faith. You know, like you said, we don't say, but we know a man who does, and we take them to that man who was fully man and fully God, and you never know the impact.
So many people, I talk about this a lot, want to see the conversion. They want to witness it because. At the end of the day in our human fl esh, we wanna take credit for it. Be like, yeah, I saved so-and-so's life. We don't want the, okay. I told a message of scripture to someone and they never used it, but it impacted their grandkids.
Grandkids, and they got saved long after I'm dead. But it's for God to do the saving and the conversion. You know, we are the farmers planting the seeds, and I think it is so important to remember that. You know, as Jesus said, we're gonna scatter seeds everywhere. Some of them aren't gonna take root, but it is our job to do so.
And with that being said, I want to get into something. I always ask every faith-based guest on the podcast, Mr. Evil, if you could share just one. And I know there are so many passages of scripture and amazing quotes given to us by God, but if you could share one right now from your heart, what is the spirit putting on you to say?
I have a scripture that I, I discovered when I was a brand new believer, and it still is vibrant and vi and vital to me as it ever was then. And, uh, it's outta Romans chapter 12, the fi rst two verses, uh, the, you know, I'm going to paraphrase it because there's so many different versions now. I just want it to be clear, so I'm gonna be clearer with it.
He, he says, I beseeched the, I plead with you brothers that you present your bodies. As a holy temple unto God to surrender to him, which is your reasonable service. That doesn't, he didn't say your, your, your survival or your, or your super service. It's your reasonable service to, to give your whole self to God.
Amen. And don't be conformed by this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That God's world, God's word, can be lived out through you and bring him glory. I agree if, if you don't get anything out of anything I've said today, know that you were created to love, that you've always been loved.
There's never been a day when you weren't loved and you can't, you don't even have the skills to be stupid enough to do something bad enough that God would not forgive you. God wants you forgiven. We may, we may think that we've committed the unpardonable sin, but most of us can't even spell it much less know what it is.
We, it's not our job to condemn ourselves. The spiritual enemy does a great job of, of pointing out our fl aws. Mm-hmm. And trying to get us to stop looking at Jesus and look anywhere else. But it's our job to look at the cross, to look at Jesus and to realize that in him we're brand new people and our history, uh, all the stuff we did before, that's just a history book.
That's, that's what we won't do again, or what we can't, we can't wait to do Again, it's our history. We live in today. Now, you know, I, I'm from Detroit and, uh, our fi rst ministry, uh, started doing kids work, but ended up doing fi ve and a half years of church planning in the roughest neighborhood in the ghetto of Detroit.
If you weren't blunt, you were dead. There was nothing in between. And, uh, I had to learn. To be bold, like I'd never been bold. I had to learn to have courage when people would hold guns to my head, because I knew if I died, I'd go to heaven. They were gonna miss it by a a million miles if they didn't do something better with their lives.
So I stood bold, and in that fi ve and a half years I didn't get a scratch. I, I could, if the wall still stood, I could show you the seven bullet holes where they missed, right? But I, I didn't get a scratch. Then we went to Chicago and planted a church, and I ended up at Cook County Jail, the most violent jail in America for about 14 months.
And uh, that's where I led people who were convicted of multiple murders to the Lord before they, before they went in and confessed to all their, all their crimes and, and, and volunteered for, for the electric chair because they knew that they were forgiven. They
knew that they deserved physically in this world's judgment to to die for, for what they've done.
And they knew they were going to heaven, so there was nothing to be afraid of. So they made their choices on their own. Then they'd come back to me and say, did I do it right? And I'd show own scripture and say, well, you tell me now. And they'd make the decisions for themselves because it wasn't my job to be judged jury or hangman.
It was my job to love them the way they were. Plainly enough they could understand it and make sure they understood that God's love is without strings. It's not a performance clause where you, you've gotta act like this or you can't be like me. God wants us to come the way we are, scars us and all. He'll change what's wrong with us from the inside out and we'll love doing it, but we've gotta fi rst love him.
So it, I've had people say, well, I can't go to church till I stop smoking, or I can't stop drink. It's gonna stop drinking or this or that. The answer is no. You go to church because you're drinking and you're smoking and you're doing stuff. Amen. You go, because church is supposed to be the emergency care ward of the body of Christ.
Mm-hmm. That's our nine one one call as the church does. And not everybody that goes to churches is living. Right. So when you see the ones that aren't, you go, that's what I'll never be. God, show me how I can be. You don't stop going to church 'cause somebody's a knucklehead. You go to church more because the church, the church needs balanced people in it to balance out the knuckleheads until they get right.
But by being, being real by learning how to be what's necessary, um, that being a good servant, whatever he asks you to do. It doesn't matter if it's big and fancy. If it's on TV or if it's in the backyard mowing someone's lawn, you can't mow their own lawn. It's all service. It's all loving God out loud with, with the way you love people.
Amen to all of that. You know, I think that it's so important that we remember, as Jesus said, it's not the healthy, you need a doctor, but rather the sick. And, you know, it's about showing up as we are. And I appreciate everything you said because it speaks against church hurt, which keeps a lot of people away from the church who judge God based off of us humans.
And, uh, that's, that's wrong. You know, no one can represent God truly and perfectly except for one man. Who came down and did that and showed us, and we have his example. We have his teachings, and it's our job to read them, to meditate on them day
and night, to keep them in our heart. And I ask everyone if it's a calling to share this episode with someone, maybe it wasn't for you to hear, but for you to share.
Uh, that goes not just for this episode, but for every podcast you listen to, every post you see about scripture or maybe the Bible verse of the day, you never know the impact it can have. Even outside of scripture, a single conversation can stop a suicide. It can end at addiction, it can save a marriage.
So be bold and courageous, you know, and speak the good word. Have a spirit of discernment. Uh, Mr. Evil, we're gonna have all your information below for people to check out your podcast. God says Yes. And of course, to spread those testimonies of faith, to spread that scriptural knowledge. And thank you. My, my, my book is out.
And, um, I, matter of fact to my left behind me is, is the cover of the book. It says, when, when the doctors say No, God says Yes. And I wrote it as a call to people who've, who've been hurt, who've had gone through a lot, and they want more. This is a book that tells him how, how God took me through it and I made it.
And if I, if, if I can get through it, they can get through it and get and better things ahead. So that's why the book is out there. You can get on Amazon for fi ve bucks. So it's not like we're trying to make money here, but I, we are trying to plant seeds. The other thing is that you mentioned my photography at the beginning.
Uh, I have a website, beautiful stuff. It's my name David w e.com and I would invite people to come and look at the pictures. If they see something they really like, um, you con you contact me directly. I, we, we do our pictures by, um, one at a time. They're by custom order, but they're not expensive. Um, I'm, I do it as a ministry, so I'm not looking to to, to make a killing.
I'm not Dr. But every picture is another way to share God's love. I agree. You know, seeing the beauty of nature is astounding. I had a little bit of a calling in my heart the other day. I was at an aquarium and I mean so many different types of jellyfi sh and I was, I know some people see that and they're like, whatever.
Or, you know, the ocean is weird. I saw it. I was like, what a miraculous creative God. We have to see some of these creatures in their design, each designed by God, uh, just as we were. So I think that those pictures you have, and if you're taking pictures in real life, take a step back and admire, not the creation but the creator.
Because everything you see, uh, came from God, those sunsets, those sunrises, even the storms, you know? So I encourage everyone to check out your. Photography and if they wanna send that picture with a scripture quote to someone, even better. But Mr. Evil, God bless you for the work that you do, and I pray that we will stay in touch to continue to, uh, minister together online and hopefully reach some people and change some lies through God.
I'd be honored to come back on anytime, and obviously you are, you have a permanent invitation to be on my podcast. Uh, whenever there's, if you've, you, something's stirring up in you and you need to talk to me about it, reach out and we'll, we'll, we'll get you back on the program.