Men’s Mental Health, Suicide Prevention, Grief, Loss, & Podcast Burnout With Chris Milson

Today, I sit down with Chris Milson for his second appearance on Couple O’ Nukes, almost exactly one year after our first conversation together. Mr. Milson returns for a raw and honest discussion about mental health, podcasting, grief, suicide prevention, family trauma, and the difficult reality of trying to help others while still carrying your own pain. As the host of Voice for the Voiceless and creator of The Mental Health Movement, he brings both lived experience and a deep desire to create space for people who feel unheard.

In this episode, Mr. Milson opens up about an extremely heavy season of life that included losing a friend to suicide, losing his grandfather, and having to put down a neglected family dog. We talk about grief, therapy, birthdays, holidays, emotional triggers, and the way certain dates can carry memories that hit harder than expected. I also share my own reflections on being alone during my birthday in Japan, the mental health weight of rainy days and holidays, and why reaching out matters even when life feels overwhelming.

Mr. Milson and I also discuss men’s mental health, the pain of growing up without healthy parental support, and how damaging family dynamics can shape a person’s self-worth for years. We talk openly about fathers, mothers, emotional neglect, weaponized vulnerability, suicide awareness, and the painful truth that even those of us working in prevention cannot save everyone. This conversation is not polished or performative—it is two men being honest about what it feels like to carry grief while still trying to help others survive theirs.

We also get into the realities of podcasting as independent creators: burnout, no-shows, lack of guest support, social media algorithms, low engagement, and the frustration of creating meaningful mental health content that does not always get pushed out. At the same time, we celebrate the growth of Mr. Milson’s show, his expanding international reach, and the importance of long-term goals and consistency.

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and today's guest, this is his second time on the podcast now, and it has been almost exactly one year since we last recorded together. Fittingly enough, you know, that was not planned. You know, I didn't even know how long it's been, because when it comes to podcasting, and today's guest can definitely, you know, agree with me, time goes by really fast. I mean, there's some guests who reach out, "Hey, it's been a year, two years." And I was like, "What? I can't believe it's been that much time." But when you're living half of your days in other people's lives, you know, time gets warped. But, you know, in between all that has been a lot of new struggles, a lot of new successes and failures. And so I want to have him back on to talk about his podcasting journey. As well, we're gonna get into the topic of mental health, which is something we've talked about. I've been on his podcast as well, so you know, it's not our first rodeo. No pun intended with my cowboy hat here. But we're gonna get into the topic. It's, it's important, you know, especially when you're someone who has overcome a lot of mental health challenges, who has overcome a lot of abuse. Being an entrepreneur can really add to that strain. You don't wanna work for someone else because, you know, you have authority issues and, and other people just make your mental health terrible. But being an entrepreneur has its own frustrations that we're gonna get into today. So Mr. Chris Melson, great to see you again. How are you doing, man? Hey, man, thank you for having me on again. And I wanted to mention something that it's actually oddly ironic to this being an exact year since we recorded. So every therapy session that I r- that I schedule somehow, I don't know if my brain just, like, is on autopilot when it comes to that, but it's always before an event. Like, I think the last one I did was right after my brother's birthday, and then the one before that was one of my other friends that I lost her birthday, and it always falls on that therapy session, and it just, like, unintentionally happens every single time. Hmm. So thank you for having me on again, man. I greatly appreciate you. Well, what's interesting with that, I'll tie it into just the other night I actually won a small speaker award for, I addressed the topic of our, our improv to speech topic was rainy days, and I actually connected it to mental health because that's what I like to focus on, and talking specifically about suicide prevention and reaching out because rainy weather impacts mental health. It can really cause great depression and anxiety for some people, and not just in the form of canceled plans, but just like a psychological effect of the gray weather of maybe being trapped home alone or whatever feelings. On the other hand, some people love rainy days. And in that same sentiment, I talked about the holidays. Of course, we always see around especially Thanksgiving, Christmas, those major holiday times, a rise in depression, suicide, alcohol use. And so when you talk about Somehow, you know, coincidentally booking the therapy around those major events in your life. I think, you know, on that degree it's not necessarily a coincidence because based on what you've been through in life, I know from our, our previous episodes together you know, holidays can be triggers for people. You know, I, I, I don't like to use that word lightly or just throw it around like it is some ways, but holidays can bring back certain memories or be stressful events. So I think it's no coincidence. Obviously, you know, celebrating family birthdays can be great, but I can think about, like, even my recent birthday was spent alone in a foreign country, locked down, in shelter in place from a typhoon. I had no special food. I had nothing. And I managed well. I think we put too much pressure on birthdays sometimes. But I was thinking, w- And, and I'm a man of God, and, and my birthday prayer actually was for everyone who was alone on their birthday and felt terrible, that He would comfort them, because I think birthdays and holidays have created so many isolating factors for some people. Yeah. I, I completely agree. When I... I was actually just having a conversation with my good friend yesterday. My life has just been turmoil for the better part of the last six months, and there has been some ups, but the downs have massively overpowered those. And the ups have been, you know, really good ups, but he, you know, he was like, "Oh, what do you wanna do this year for your birthday?" Like, he's, he's like me in terms of trying to keep traditions alive. Like, Mm ... we have our Friendsgiving that we do. We go see a movie on Christmas Day every single year, 'cause he's like me. He doesn't have direct family that he's close with. Now, he has his wife's family, but as you know as well, that's not the same thing as- Mm having- Yeah ... your own biological family. So every year we always try to make a plan for our birthdays and always try to follow through with whatever we're doing. And I told him this year, I said, "I don't know, man. I haven't been thinking about it," 'cause I haven't had a car in almost three weeks because of a, a neglectful mechanic, and I haven't been thinking about it, because money has been really tight, and my life has been nothing but stress. And he's like, he immediately kicked me in the ass, pardon my, my language. And he's like, "Well, you better start thinking about it, 'cause we're gonna do something." And it's good to have those kind of friends to just kind of, like, push you out of that gloomy day, out of those rainy day- Yeah ... mentalities, 'cause man, I've been in a rainy day for what feels like forever. Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that. In fact, not to bring up a somber subject, but from what I've been tracking on your Facebook posts and stuff, which when you're a podcaster and you have, like, 500-plus contacts and it grow- every day there's someone new on social media, it's hard to keep up with people, I'll tell you that. But- Yeah ... what I have seen from you is, I believe, I'm not sure if it's multiple, but at least one, I think you've had a few passing aways and deaths of friends during the past year alone. And I can say even for me, one of the downsides perhaps of podcasting is I've met so many people and therefore I actually know more people who have passed away. Several people from the podcasting industry that I met either online or in person at conferences have passed away. Some of them just out of nowhere. You know, y- you never know. Not all of them were suicide. Some of them were just cancer that maybe they didn't announce, or some of them just had a heart attack. I mean, it is- really scary to, to, it's kind of uncanny, one of the, the people who passed away, I took a selfie with them at PodFest. We said, "Hey, we're gonna meet up in a few months," and then just gone. And I look at that photo sometimes, I'm like, "Wow." It's not like I knew the person like a best friend. I had just met them at a conference. But it still sends a chill down your spine to be like, wow, you know, that is one of the last pictures of, of them that may have been ever been taken. And, Yeah ... you know, I, I think, not just from the business perspective of like, oh, I really should follow up with people in case they pass away, but just in general, you know, you never know how much time you have left. So and, and, and considering all the struggles you've been through, which t- to recap for people who haven't seen your previous episode, a lot of bad family dynamics homelessness, I mean, s- suicide attempts, you know, creating Voice for the Voiceless, a lot that you have been through, to have these deaths on top of that, you've talked about not just a rainy day, maybe a, a thunderstorm all year, you know. Yeah. Maybe a hurricane. Can you kind of talk about what, what was able to keep you anchored through that with some- something like that that could really push you over the edge? So let me tell you the point where I was destroyed. I, I want to start there, just because it happened this year, and it's something that I've been trying to get a lid on. My grandfather passed away in February. Mm. Right before that, had a friend pass away in October who took his life. After my grandfather passed away, I had to put my dog down. So within that small span of time, I've had to process somebody taking their life a family member who I would argue to say had a bigger impact on my life than my own parents did- Mm-hmm and then our dog who was being neglected by my father. And just- Mm. Mm ... that whole situation was hard, too. And I remember I called my thera- I called my dad. This is super weird. So this is the first time I've ever called this man, and I was crying. My grandma told me that my grandfather passed away in the morning, and I called my dad crying. I said, "Dude, can I just come over? I need a hug." Like, I have never asked this man for a hug in my life. Yeah. I cried in that man's arms because my grandfather meant everything to me. He kept me going. And I remember having a conversation with my therapist about it on our session, and I think I spent a good part of like 45 minutes crying, just I couldn't take anymore. I, I said, "You know, I've never come so close to the edge- Since maybe I was, like, 27, I would say. I've never been that close to the edge in a healthier mind, and that's what scares the shit out of me, was being in a- Hmm ... healthier, healed mindset of just, like, "I can't take any more of this." The next day, I shit you not, after that therapy session, I got a raise at work. I got a promotion at work. And I remember after that f- that session with my therapist, I remember praying. And I don't usually pray like this, because it takes me a lot to, like, get in that, in that mode. And I, I'm sure you can attest to the struggle of trauma- Yeah ... in terms of religion, or faith for that matter. And I, I just remember praying that night before I went to sleep. I said, "God," whoever's listening, I said, "I need a break." Yeah. "I have never been so close to giving up, and I ... Just give me something. Give me a little bit of a, a little bit of a push in the right direction." And the next day, got a phone call from my boss, and had, like, two of my other big bosses on there, and said they wanted to give me a promotion. I was speechless. I'm like, "There's no fucking way this is happening right now." Like, somebody up there, I'm convinced it was my grandfather. I'm a really heavy believer in guardian angels, and I, I genuinely think he was looking out for me that day. 'Cause ever since then, I have felt an overwhelming sadness probably since then. And, you know, I get through. You know, it's you, you know grief and how it, it carries with you, and it's really hard to grow around it. And I think grief is one of those things where it shows up in not only your high moments, but your lowest moments, too. And it's all a matter of how you bounce back from that grief. It's, you know, you can, you can be sad, but don't sit in that sadness. And when you hit your highest of highs like I did, and wow, yeah, my grandfather was right. Just keep pushing. Just keep pushing. And I always hear his words. Anything that's remotely positive in my life, I, I hear that man's voice, just our conversations, our, the impact he had on my life. And I remember speaking at his funeral, and I was one of the only, I think I was the only person who got up there and spoke that made the whole room laugh. Hmm. It, I don't know where it came from. Like, something in me says, "Yes, this is sad, and this, this sucks. I don't wanna say goodbye to my grandfather." And I brought up the fact that he goes to Goodwill, and he always buys stuff and always asks if I, if I want something from Goodwill, if I, if I have any more room on my wall for the paintings he made. And I remember saying, I have like 20 pillows of that he gave me from Goodwill just sitting on my couch. And everybody in the room laughed, and it made me feel really good that you could take such a heartbreaking loss and give a little light to everybody that's hurting, like all his sons who are well older than I am. His youngest son even reached out to me. He says, "Hey, man, I just wanna let you know that your words really sat with me, and I really appreciate everything that you said there." 'Cause again, you can take grief and be sad, but I think I've lost so much in such a short amount of time, I've become so numb to... I'll cry, but I, I would rather remember all the good things that those people made me feel I, I truly think I ran out of tears when my grandfather passed away. Mm. Yeah, and your funeral recollection, it reminds me of an episode one of the most listened to episodes of my podcast was called When a Man's Son Committed Suicide, God Told Him This. And in that episode, he goes over the conversation he had with God after his son committed suicide, and that was with Kevin Skelit. And at the funeral for his son Mark, the, You know, he had asked, like, "Hey, if anyone has a story about Mark that they wanna tell me or something, just feel free to pull me aside." And all of his son's friends had actually made a line at the funeral door, and they all just took turns telling him stories about his son that really cheered him up, s- stories that he never knew about, small favors his son had done or funny stories. And yeah, I think people have started calling funerals celebrations of life, and you know, I think there, there definitely is a place to, to honor and celebrate that life as much as grieve. And I think when it comes to grieving, it's hard when you have to be grieving your life on top of s- now someone else's death, right? Because we talk about all the things that we've been through and that, that everyone goes through. We're all having our own mental health struggles, some of us to more of a degree. I mean, you know, you definitely hit me deeply when you talked about it's not the same as having your own family there. You know, I, I have all these people. Like, I, I got a small speaker award the other night. You know, my family doesn't know. They... I didn't get a proud of them. I got congratulations from multiple people online that I met across the country in podcasting world and stuff like that, but I've never had that parental pride. And you know, it, it does feel different. Same with birthdays. I re- I remember my first year podcasting really, or my second year podcasting it was the first time I ever got so many messages on my birthday, and it was both the happiest and saddest birthday. It was happy because, wow, so many people reached out to me, but that attention emphasized the neglect elsewhere in my life, so... And I know you relate to that a lot, you know? And- And I think a lot of people have a really hard time understanding that. Like, I feel like when I hear the words, "You have so many people that love you." You're right, I do, but that hole is never gonna go away. That wanting your parents to be normal, to be there for you, to say the words, "Hey, I'm proud of you." Granted, I love the family that I created- Mm-hmm ... like yourself and many others, but I would ra- not rather, I would love a world where I can say my parents are parents- Yeah ... not just people who have caused damage in my life. And it's, it's not just societal pressure, 'cause people are like, "Well, we only care about family 'cause of this emphasis from society about it because we see this classic construct on television." But I would argue from, from me being a preacher, I think it's a, a deep spiritual wound. You know, because I think God designed us to be families, and it is sin and people's choices that have torn that construct apart, and I think it forms a spiritual wound that just can, can never fully be healed. And I, of course, I quote scripture all the time saying, "Though my father and mother forsake me, it is the Lord who receives me." But when you talk about there, there is just that, that biological earthly wound there, and it, it's sad, you know, thinking about- All the success that I've had in, in my personal life that I can look at, and it's like they, they have no idea. And it really just isn't the same. But I will say on the note of gratitude, so much gratitude to all the people who do support me, who do recognize what I've been through, and who are there for me. For the family I've made through my neighbors and my friends and my coworkers, so grateful for them because, you know, they don't have to go out of their way to be proud of me or to say as such, and so I, I really do appreciate that and a difficult topic. You and I both work in suicide prevention and awareness through our podcast. We highlight guests who are survivors, we highlight nonprofits that spread awareness and resources, we share our own personal stories. So for you, as someone who has been on that edge, who has almost committed suicide, who, you know, has gone through all that, to now recently lose a friend to suicide, I know me personally, I would feel like, man, how, how am I, a person who works in suicide prevention awareness, and people in my inner circle are doing it? Like, am, am I failing? Like, maybe you had that conversation with yourself, maybe not. Could you please walk us through kind of the thoughts? Because I feel like for you and I, who are so close to the topic, it hits so much more deeply and sensitive than for anyone else. So I'm gonna be 100% honest with you, brother. I as soon as you started asking that question, I got emotional, because it reminds me of a conversation I had with my good friend Char, who lives in Denmark. She was one of the first content creators I had on. Really good two-hour conversation, her and I, with mental health and everything going on. And, and I told her that I had lost a friend to suicide, and these words echo in my head all the time, and when she said it, I w- I cried my eyes out, because she's right, but God, it hurts so much. She said, "You can't save everybody." The hardest-hitting words I think I've ever felt in my heart, because when I found out that he took his life, I questioned everything. I questioned what I do, questioned how much I reach out. I questioned everything about me, and I even said to my therapist, I'm like, "What good is it that I can't even prevent a, a, a friend from taking their life doing what I'm doing?" And she, you know, she just kind of said, "You can't blame yourself for somebody wanting to make that decision. You were there for them as a friend when it mattered. You were there for them, you know, through the, the hard times they were going through, but you can't, you can't prevent somebody from doing that." I mean, you, you know as much as I do, somebody's gonna do it. They're gonna do it. And it hurts my heart saying that out loud, because I try so hard to keep in touch with everybody, to make sure I support everybody doing what they're doing, and sometimes when you just, you know, fall out of contact with people some- you know, 'cause life gets crazy, and I remember the hardest thing about his death was- He left a mental health group that I have six days before he did it. Mm. And I just remember, and I, and I was so angry at myself 'cause I'm like, "Man, I wish Facebook didn't show that because I'm even more pissed off that it happened." And again, I, I, I wish more than anything in the world I could have done more. And It's so, such a heartbreaking situation too, because him and I weren't best friends. You know, we didn't grow up together. We don't live in the same state. We knew each other because he was friends with an old mutual friend of mine, and he joined the mental health group, and we talked every now and again, and he would share with me the updates in his business and say that his son was really into what he was doing. And at some point, we just fell out of talking and you know, like I said, it happens. I, I feel guilty about it every single day because I wish I could have talked to him more. But, you know, again, just kind of, he knows I was there for him if he needed it, and unfortunately didn't reach out, and what happened happened. And I wish more than anything in the world that I could have prevented it or had a conversation with him and be like, "Hey, man," like, "what's going on?" But he did what he did, and all I can do is, you know, talk more about suicide awareness, talk more about mental health struggles- Mm-hmm ... and especially within men. I mean, I'm not trying to single out men, but as you know, the suicide rate in men is significantly higher than it is for women. And- Yeah ... we see 30-year-old men, you know, even, even men in their 50s taking their lives because of things going on. We're, we're shamed for talking about this. We're shamed for sharing our feelings. And mix that with social media of all of these people, what they expect out of relationships and saying that, "Oh, men can't be vulnerable. Men can't this, men can't that." We're in a, we're in a battle uphill I always feel like. Like, we're talking about this, I feel like we're in a, a battle uphill, whether it's the algorithm or whether it's trying to put us at the same level as everybody else. Like, I remember there was a a stand-up that Chris Rock did, and he was talking about, about men. And he's like, He was naming all the things that are valued more than men, and then he said dogs. Like, obviously, that was the punchline of the whole thing. But he's like, all these things are valued more than men." And while, yeah, it was a stand-up and that's meant to be the joke, like, that's pretty much... I mean, that's our reality. You know? We're, we're told from a very young age what we provide is our value- What we make in terms of money, that's our value to society, what we contribute. And i- it's, it's such a, such a BS narrative that I, I wish we can fight harder to break. But, you know, again, like I said, I just feel like we're in a constant fight uphill just having this conversation So going back to the tragic iro- irony, you know, I think about how I work in addiction recovery, and my father's still an addict, and I've never been able to reach him with our conversations. Now, a good part of that is because he'll never see me as a professional or expert, only as his son. And so unfortunately there's that justification of why he doesn't listen to me. But yeah, I think about that closeness we have, and, and one thing I can say to take away from our conversation is for all y'all listening right now, you know, reach out to those people in your life. You never know what they're going through, especially if it's been a while. And it's hard to keep up with all the connections, you know, and it's not necessarily a responsibility to have to reach out to every single person every single day. Like you said, life gets busy. I think one thing that is important is knowing who we can reach out to. The difficult part is when you're in that state of mind, you're not thinking of, "Who can I reach out to?" You're thinking, "Nobody even cares." You know? The last thing you're thinking is, like, this person wants to hear... A lot of things I'll hear, not just with suicidal ideation, but I remember a lot of romantic relationships I've been in, my partner hasn't wanted to share feelings, cool, 'cause I don't wanna be a burden. Or same with friendships even, I don't wanna burden you with what's going on with me. I think especially people, which this is the, the sad, ironic part, is people are like, "You know, Mr. Whiskey, you talk all day every day on your podcast about this stuff. I don't wanna dump it, my stuff onto that on top of it." And I was like, "No, opposite. I'm, I'm probably more handled and equipped to talk about this stuff and feel less burdened than someone you just, you know, vomit this onto." But unfortunately, you know, people think, "Hey, you're already so much inundated with this content. We don't wanna add to it." And it's, you know, it's never a burden. You know? It's, it's not. We'll handle it emotionally however way we have to handle it, but, you know, our priority is taking care of you. And so I, I encourage everyone, never feel like a burden. You know? It's not a burden to wanna get help. I, I believe we're human beings. We should be helping and serving one another, and if that means my day is gonna be a bit gloomier because we're talking about a dark subject or I gotta pause my TV show or whatever it is nothing is more important than a human life. You know? There really is no event or task or whatever it is that can't be rescheduled or redone. You know, those opportunities are not as important as saving someone's life. And I think when it comes to mental health, it's so interesting the comment you make about the dogs because in Dax, he's, you know, he does a lot of men's mental health music, and in his song To Be a Man one of the lines is, "Unconditional love's only for women, children, and dogs." Yep. And I remember hearing that part. I actually was, When I first heard that song, I was still in active duty military. I was aboard an aircraft carrier, and it was a grown man played that song, because we were talking about Dax. He goes, "Yeah, he dropped a new song. Check it out." And the man started crying when he heard the line, "Unconditional love is only for women, children, and dogs." This is a grown military man, and I mean, it, it really shocked me actually to just see him cry and be like, "This song hits too close to home." And, and I, I really thought about that. It's like we give unconditional love to our dogs before our, our husband or our father or our brother. I mean, that really did sit with me. And, and to see that someone else may, may poke fun at it and, you know, the reason we, we do comedy, part of it is to bring truth to light, you know, about some things, about topics, to have people reflect on that. You know, like you said, it was comedic in its own value, but you think about that, it's like there is truth to it. And it's like, am I treating my dog better than my partner? I mean, you think about people nowadays, and I can't say anything because I'm a dog dad and I push my dog in a stroller. But, you know, some of these people treat their dogs better than their actual children , you know? And I think that's, that's fine to treat your, your pets very well, as long as you treat the other people in your life as well as, as you do your pets. But when it's at the point where you're like, "Hey, I treat the people in my life less than my, my dog," not that my dog isn't valuable, but it's like what am I saying about the value of my partner? And I think, you know- One of the biggest complaints, like when I've talked to women who are far left liberal or feminist, and I've had debates with them, when it comes to the subject of men's mental health, they always say, "It's men's fault they don't talk about it." And I'm like, "What are you talking about? Do you know how many men try to speak about these subjects who get shut down?" Or it's like if it's a men's mental health event, it doesn't get promoted on the algorithm. It, it gets- Mm-hmm ... outperformed by whatever other content or, or type of stuff. I'm like, it's actually ridiculous. Like, I, I say the algorithm actually purposely, like, hides posts. Like, there have been many months or weeks or days where someone was like, "Hey, did you know that, like, three weeks ago was, like, Men's Mental Health Week or something, and you're only first hearing about it now?" Or, "Hey, it was Men's Mental Health Month, and this is the first post you've seen in 30 days or whatever." Yep. So I think it is a uphill battle against societal constructs and algorithms and just also, also ourselves. To- to- Men are fighting toxic masculinity, suppressing some of their vulnerability just as much as some women are their own worst enemies when it comes to whatever they're trying to fight for. So that's- Yeah ... that's the issue too, is we're not just fighting society. We're, we're fighting our own selves. Yeah. A- and also to, to that point too, how many times is a man's feelings weaponized against him? You know what I mean? Mm. Like, whether it's performing in the household, whether it's providing heaven forbid they get laid off. All of those things is used against us. My mother did that to me my whole life. I would te- "Oh, what's wrong? What's wrong? What's going on?" And I will never forget the very last conversation her and I had before I left New Jersey to come back down here "You'll never be nothing. You have no personality. You have no passion in life," blah, blah, blah. And that was 'cause I was just leaving New Jersey 'cause I couldn't deal with her anymore. And All of those things because I gave up the wrestling podcast I was doing because her and her partner at the time were arguing while I was live on stream, and I was super embarrassed, and I was just like, "Yeah, I, I can't do this anymore." And I gave that up. I had three jobs at the time, and I quit one of them. It was just a weird, unstable time of my life, and she used all of that against me. And, you know, it, it's funny when I hear the, the words from women say it's men's fault, which isn't completely wrong. Like you said, we're, we're fighting ourselves, but at the same time, again, going back to the being the provider of the household, the societal expectations of what a man/husband is supposed to be. We're supposed to be the protector. We're supposed to be the provider. We're supposed to be the breadwinner. And society has convinced a lot of people in relationships that that is what is supposed to be the, the case, and we're encouraging hyper-independence, which is why families aren't really a thing in 2026, the birth rate being down so bad. We're encouraging people being on government benefits more than we ever were. I mean, the... it's just, there's so many things that has to do with how men are viewed in society that is affecting where we're at in terms of talking about men's mental health. And you talked about the algorithm. I, I remember Char bringing up, I don't know if it's changed since then, but I know she said something like TikTok, I believe, only had 10,000... or 10,000. 10% of it was mental health, and the rest of it was whatever was on there. Like, that's why it would always be hidden, and you wouldn't find out about it until weeks later. But yeah, man, like, I just feel like in every aspect of having this discussion is buried, swept under the rug, and, "Oh, there was no signs. We didn't know he was struggling." Okay. Well, Robin Williams was openly depressed and, you know, talked about all his struggles out loud. Chester Bennington, same thing. Chris Cornell, same thing. Like, the signs are there. People just don't wanna see it, you know? And again, going back to the music thing with Dax, I mean, a lot of these really big artists who, who speak on mental health through their lyrics, like, people just say, "Oh yeah, this is a good song. I can relate to it." Okay, well, you're not looking at the full picture. Like, the writing on the wall was there for Chester and Chris and Robin Williams the whole time. You people just weren't talking about it enough, and that's a problem Yeah, I know with Dax, he says one of his lines actually is, "That pain sounds different when it's coming from a man. We're not allowed to express, to feel," and stuff like that. And one of his lyrics that really hit me, and, and this song is years old, it was one of his heartbreak songs. He forgave a woman who cheated on him and then caught her again. And, you know, he said, "Don't actually say you can relate to this song unless you cry while you listen along." And I remember that level of like, hey, this, this is real stuff. This is like, don't just be like, this is a good song, and yeah, I ki- I relate to this because, you know, my ex left me for ABC reason. He's like, I need you to feel this pain of like, hey, you've been through this, this moment. And I, I think, like you said, yeah, a lot of people consume a lot of mental health content, but they don't process it for what it truly and deeply is. And, and speaking of that, I mean, we mentioned earlier your podcasting. I know there have been periods of times where I've reached out to you, and you're like, "Hey brother, I'm taking a break from the podcast for a few months or a few weeks 'cause of my mental health. Like, I'm really trying to focus on myself, and if I burn out or, you know, I push myself too hard, then there's gonna be no podcast at all." So ta- talk- Yeah ... a little bit about that journey about that, that struggle and that balance of taking care of yourself, trying to take care of others, running the podcast, figuring out life. How has that journey been? Yeah. So I have a really big problem in saying no. I have, I s- have struggled with that my whole life, and that came with not having boundaries for myself. You know, it was just a, "Oh yeah, you need some money? Here you go. Oh, you need a place to stay? Oh, here you go." I was actually just telling a friend about this right before we hopped on here. I had somebody reach out to me who had robbed me last year. She stole, like, $400 from me and just disappeared. Hmm. And she eventually paid it back, but that doesn't take away the fact that she robbed me. And she messaged me yesterday, and she's like, "You know, I need a place to stay at for just a night, and, you know, I'm going through a lot of stuff." And I was working and just not really thinking about it, just kind of put it on the back burner. And, and I responded to her after. I said, "Hey, like, I, I'm sorry that you're going through all this stuff," and I just said, "I honestly, my cup is just completely empty. I, I am not a space... I cannot hold that space for you right now, and I, you know, I really empathize with what you're going through, but I just, I can't help you right now, and I'm so sorry that you're going through what you're going through." And that was one of the first times I can remember saying no to somebody that is in that kind of need, because she took advantage of my kindness. And when it comes to the podcast you know, the, there was one no-show. He didn't communicate or nothing like that even though we talked that morning. He messaged me the next day and so he said, "Oh, something came up," or something. And I didn't even bother responding, 'cause it's like, listen dude, like, I have gotten to the point where I'll have no-shows and it'll just become so what is that? Re- reoccur- yeah, so reoccurring- Mm-hmm ... that I've reached that point, it's like, all right, man, like, I'm just not even gonna, like, try to reschedule again because if it happens again, I'm gonna be more mad. I did that one time for somebody. I rescheduled three times, and he bailed all three times. No communication, no email, nothing. And by the time- I don't wanna one-up you. I have a gentleman who, I have a gentleman who right now has rescheduled seven times on me. Absolutely. Seven times. And there was an excuse every, almost every time. Same ... but it's just ridiculous. And I, I know my neighbor was telling me to build into my podcast contract like, "Hey, there's a no-show fee." And, and it could be something as simple as five bucks. But he's like, "These people are wasting your time." And it's true, because it seems like, oh, well, you know, they don't show up, now your day is free. But it's like, no, I, I can't, I did not go on that trip with those friends, or I did, I missed an event, or whatever it is. It's, it's not just like, hey, it's an hour or 45 minutes of your time. It's like, no, my day was built around that. My schedule was- Yeah ... built around that. Or I woke up three hours earlier than normal to accommodate this guest's time zone, and it is really frustrating. And it, to have it r- be a repeat offender, all the more so. It's about our time and our, and, and respecting us. So I completely- Exactly ... agree with you. It's one of the most frustrating things. And I know there's a few podcasts that I missed because of whatever happened or some kind of miscommunication, and I hate that. I mean, it's the worst feeling in the world to be the person who n- who no-shows. But I can definitely say I've had more no-shows than I've ever no-showed. That's, that's for sure. Yeah. And, and whenever I have to reschedule, I try to reschedule days in advance you know. Mm-hmm. Or if I have to reschedule someone on my show. And I think the biggest upset has been I've reached out to people, I said, "Hey," and n- like, I'll give you an example. I, I asked a guy to reschedule on the podcast, like, three weeks in advance. I said, "Hey, I'm going to Japan now. The time zones are gonna change. I'm restructuring my calendar. Could you reschedule?" And just leaves me on read, and then reaches back out like, "Hey, you never rescheduled nothing." And it's like, why is it so inconvenient ... Like, if you want to be on the show and share content, and I reach out weeks in advance to reschedule, I mean, at that point, I think one of the things is people just like to use an excuse to not do work. It's like, oh, they asked me- Mm-hmm ... to reschedule, so I'm just gonna cancel instead so I don't have to- ... do this work. But it's like, then are you even committed to your own mission of guesting- Yes ... on podcasts and providing good content? And if your judgment of my character is, "Oh, this person asked me to reschedule, therefore they're inconsiderate or not a good host," it's like, well, I asked you weeks in advance or days in advance. You know, if it was, "Hey, we have a podcast in an hour, I gotta reschedule," and I don't have a, a justifiable excuse, then that I get. But I think part of it is a reflection of character. And I- Yeah ... it's just, it's frustrating. I would say it's definitely one of the most frustrating things about being a podcaster, especially when it's a guest you were really looking forward to have, which I've had that. Yes. You, you have had that same occurrence where it's like, man, I was actually more excited for this conversation than the past five episodes. And- Right You know, because their business was super important to our, our topic or they just seem like a great person. And sometimes, you know, you don't wanna podcast with your heroes because you realize that they're just people too, and maybe they're not as good as their business or their mission is. Yeah. You, you know what's another thing that, that bothers me, is when you have people that do come on the podcast, you record for an hour and a half, and they can't do something as simple as just share the podcast. You know what I mean? Like, no support. I, I've ... I don't know if that's just a me thing that drives me crazy, but it's like if I'm taking like time out of my day to make sure that people are listening to this conversation, the least you can do is just press share to story- A simple post or something. Yeah. Yeah. Or forward the link. And I, I, I go above and beyond when I can. I actually will generate social media clips from shows I guested on. One, I mean, it's promoting my content as well. I mean, that's ... The, the whole reason you guested was to promote yourself and your content and your mission on a new platform. Yeah. And for me, it's like, yes, it's the ho- ... I assume the host is not gonna do their job, not because I don't respect them, but because, hey, if I rely purely on this host to push out this episode we recorded together to make social media clips and stuff, I mean, then it's, it's all in their hands. The least I can do is, hey, they gave me a copy of the video file or it's on YouTube you know, I have the ability to go make clips from it. Or at minimum, post a picture of, of their podcast logo and say, "Here's the a recent show I guested on," blah, blah, blah. And I don't think it's drowning out. People are like, "Well, you know, people don't really wanna hear you on other shows. They wanna hear your show." And it's like, listen- I doubt I'm gonna lose followers for sharing that I was on another podcast, and if I do, I mean, that's, I mean, that's just a shallow reason, to be honest. I mean, I'm gonna promote that I've been on other podcasts. Exactly. If they wanna listen to it or not, that's their prerogative. But I'm not gonna withhold all the people it could reach for this one person it might push away. I mean, if they- Right ... don't wanna listen to it, I mean, that's fine. I mean, honestly, for me, as long as it's not copy-paste, like, I, I try to be different on every podcast, not in the sense of I'm not authentic, but every host asks different questions. Some of them are a little copy-paste and, you know, sometimes you wanna skip that narrative. But yeah, as you mentioned, it's like we're doing our part as the host to push out all this content, the least you can do is share. I ask for something a little different. I can tell you I've had over 300 episodes, and their amount of reviews do not match that. When I say, "Hey, you were a guest on the podcast. Would you mind just leaving a review on Apple or Spotify?" Honest review. It doesn't have to be a whole paragraph. It could just be a star rating. You don't even have to write a paragraph. You can just hit the button for the stars. Yeah. And the amount of people who don't follow up on that, and it frustrates me even more so. Shout out to Podmatch. It's a guesting and hosting matching software. I actually have a special link for it in the description below, but- They actually send you an email copy of the review that you leave for their Podmatch profile to copy and paste into their actual podcast. So the link takes you directly to their show, and you just copy and paste the review. And the amount of people who have not done that, and it's like, it couldn't be any easier for you. Yeah. And, and the worst is people who say, "Yes, of course I would leave a review. I enjoyed our episode. As a fellow podcaster, I understand." Those are the people who haven't left a review. I'm so glad that I'm not alone there. And then some random person... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, the struggle is real, brother, you know. You know how it is. But that being said, all the struggles aside, how has the success of the podcast been? Have you gotten feedback from anyone, or have you yourself just seen its growth and your own personal growth from maybe your own perspective? So when we recorded last I believe I was in 30-something countries. So a year later, I'm in 75 countries now. Like, that is insane growth. I couldn't believe it when it happened. I was like, "Okay, somebody's messing with me. Like, there's bots or something." And then I saw, I was looking on the impressions, and I think, like, one day had, like, 250 impressions. I'm like, "What the hell happened?" I'm like, "Did I put out an episode that was really good or something?" Like, Someone probably downloaded every- like, the usually that means a new follower to the show, and they, it automatically downloaded one of every episode that you've ever had. Yeah, 'cause I've- Yeah I've had those days where suddenly I go in and there's just like a whoosh spike in the chart. Yeah. And I'm like, someone in Finland just downloaded my ... When I first started, actually, my show jumped to, like, the top of the charts in Finland or something because some, a group of people had just all fo- started following the show on the same day. And at that point, it had however many episodes, so it just, like, did a huge spike for no reason. And- Yeah ... I ended up being I was, like, top of the charts in Finland for mental health for, like, a month. And I was like, all right- That's awesome ... thank you random Finnish group. Hell yeah. And, and I'm sure- That's awesome with, with you, you've seen, like, so I just hit the other day 91 countries. And I read through the list and I was like, I'll be honest, I haven't even heard- ... like, 75% of these countries, right? Have you look- taken a look and you're like- Yeah ... what is this country? Yes ... the best is there are some places and I don't know how you get your statistics, I get mine through Buzzsprout, and it's like there are some countries or cities where it's just, like, there's not even a flag or something. It's just, like, unknown- Mm-hmm ... land area, territory. I'm like, what? I remember when my podcast hit the Middle East and I saw, like, Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan. I'm like, there is no way my podcast is out that far. Yeah, dude, like, whenever I look at some of the countries that are in there, like, I, I'm just, like, mind blown 'cause it's like one, that one person, however many people it is, is listening to it in a third world country where mental health isn't something that people are talking about. Hmm ... it, it blows my mind 'cause it's like, you know, people are, are trying to have the conversation worldwide, and we're starting to see it a little better. I mean, 75 countries to all these big content creators might not, like, seem like it's a lot, but for, you know, for myself at least, I'll speak for myself, it's exhilarating to see the names of the countries that are in there and be like, wow, I had, I have a footprint in Iran. I have a footprint in in Manila in the Philippines. Like, wherever it is, like, I'm in that, in that space, and that means something to me. Right. For me, like, I guess the question, and I'm sure you, you have this question too, and some listeners might be like, "Why would you even ask that?" But I'm sure for you and me it's like, why are they listening? Why is some person in Bulgaria listening to this podcast? And it's not that I don't think the content is good, it's just reaching people in those, those foreign nations where you think maybe this topic isn't aligned or maybe they don't speak English even. Like, it's it's interesting to think about, like you said, mental health conversations that we have in America are actually far more than they're having in most countries. But at the same point, what that really shows and reveals is that it's just about the human experience. You know, whether we make it a big thing where we dedicate a month to it here in America, or it's not even allowed to be spoken about in other countries because of their controlling governments, it's still happening. You know, whether we address it or not, it's still happening. It's the human experience. So I think that is really powerful, and that's one of the things about, you know, my global travels is really seeing all those struggles. Like I said in that recent episode I did, Japan and Jamaica that episode is trending very well right now. One of the things we talked about was, like, I've gone to Japan, I've gone to Mexico, I've gone to America, multiple states, and in all of those places I've sat down at a park and I've just had an ice cream because I can't help myself. And I've just watched, you know, the families at the park, and they all want the same thing, to have their kids smile, laugh, play with other kids, grow up happy. You know, to be sitting there as a couple. Sometimes they have a dog or a cat. There was a guy who had a bunny on a leash at a park in Japan. That really blew my mind. I've never seen someone walk a bunny on a leash before. But you know, the human experience is shared. You know, the language may be different, the culture may be different, but at the end of the day, we all want to be happy. We don't wanna have mental health struggles. Suicide and addiction is a global issue. And if you want a really good episode, not to plug my own show here, but- With Dr. Anthony Sillard on my podcast, we talked about the loneliness and mental health and suicide statistics, and he shared some mind-blowing stuff. It was, and I I'll paraphrase his numbers a little bit. I believe he said in the past 15 years, the rate of arrests for elderly Japanese men have quadrupled, not because of in- malicious intentions and crime, but because the studies found that elderly men in J- Japan were so alone that they would commit small crimes to find community in prison. And then he shared statistics- What? ... about, like, I think it was most m- middle-aged men in Britain are, like, m- at more risk for suicide and depression and feel more alone anywhere else in the world, that children in the UK actually get less time outside and sunlight exposure than prisoners in the UK. So we were going over these different studies from different colleges and different organizations, and Talking about the UK, Japan America, you see it's a, it's a global issue, you know? And, and that's the really sad part. And to bring children into it, you know, you talked earlier about how shocking it is when a, a man who is 50 commits suicide, and I agree. To think you've made it that far in life and, and then had a breaking point. But I think, too, on the other end, looking at the statistics of young boys committing suicide at 8, 9, 10, 12 years old, that's sad that there's so much pressure- Yeah on our young boys you know? And, and I can relate. When I was a teenager, I struggled with suicidal ideation and depression, right? Because it can really be shaped by your childhood and stuff. Mm-hmm. Because people are like, "What are you exposed to as a kid that's so bad?" And it's like, it could be a war every day in your own home, and, and you know that- Yeah as well as I do. Mm-hmm ... I also had a wicked mother in New Jersey who said I would never be loved and amount to anything, so somehow we have we're, we're pretty parallel to each other. But yeah, it's just, it's, it's really sad. But to know that our podcast is maybe reaching someone in a country, and I think really reaching someone maybe in a country where they have no lifelines for them, where there is no suicide hotline, which you and I are kind of against that. I know you've talked about your experience working y- you know, having to read a script and not being human. But to reach people in those countries where they don't have mental health support groups or access to therapy or whatever it may be, or aren't even allowed to express those opinions and ideas, I think that is so powerful for, for us. Yeah, and just to kind of go back to the, you know, the, the younger kids and the struggles that they have mentally, I believe there was a statistic that said most of the trauma that kids face is around the ages of seven and eight. And eight years old is where I experienced my first trauma at my parents getting divorced. And- You know, seeing the, the rate of suicide enter the bracket of kids 12, I think it's what? 12 to 17, I believe is, like, one of the highest rates right now. Mm. And, you know, when you think about all of the contributing factors over the last five to six years, you had the pandemic, you have social media bullying is at an all-time high, you have the political climate, you have the pressures of their parents in- Mm-hmm today's economy. There, there's so many things that somehow gets put on those kids' backs, right? Mm-hmm. And, and I don't think people understand when parents are arguing, when parents are throwing harsh insults at each other, how much that kid absorbs that shit. Like, I can honestly tell you a lot of my anger and a lot of the things I struggled with was from my parents arguing all the time. And from the age of eight years old to probably f- I'd probably say 31, maybe 32, my parents still argue to this day, and they've been divorced for over 26 years. And I remember saying to my mom one time, I'm like, "Dude, you haven't been married to this guy in 26 years. Why the f- why the F do you care what he's doing? Like, just leave it alone." And she just, she can't help herself because she has to make herself feel like she's Mother Teresa, that she's never done anything wrong. Mm-hmm. And you constantly have to remind her, like, "Hey, all the things you said and did, you're starting to see the consequences of it." I actually just told her to that last night. You know, she she brought up how I said in a podcast, I'm not sure which one it was that I wish that she wasn't my mother. And, you know, whenever I said it out or however I said it, I, I told her, I said, "I want you to understand that's a reflection of, you know, all of the things that you have said to me or have done to me." Like, I was just saying this to my brother earlier, I said, "You know, if you think about it, take away the fact that she stole money from my little sister. I have been treated the worst by her through like all three of us, and I still give her chances. I still have conversations with her- Mm ... because I don't want- The, the thing on my conscience of I didn't talk to her before she passed away, regardless of what she's done to me. You know, we don't wish ill or death on, on our parents regardless of what they've done to us. I mean, I'm sure other people feel differently sometimes, but I don't wish death on either of my parents regardless of what they've said and done to me, but I also don't have an emotional connection with either one of them. She asked me, she said "You do know that I've always loved you, right?" I said, "Well, that's a loaded question, mom." I said, "Because everything you've said and done doesn't feel like love." Shows otherwise. It... Yeah, it feels like you're just sprinkling the word love on all the bullshit that you said and did. Like, just because you say, "I love you," or, "I'm sorry," doesn't take away from anything you said or did. Well, there's a twisted maternal justification, I believe, where mothers, because they birthed us, feel like, "Hey, I'm your mother. You should always love me regardless of what I do," or that being a mother, it justifies any actions they do. And I, you know, I totally relate to that and I'm sure a lot of people listening have heard that. "What do you mean, you know, you don't love me or you hate me? I'm your mother." Or, "What do you mean you're upset with me? I'm your mother." And it's like being my mother doesn't excuse what you've done. Like you said like, why would I lo- you told me that I was gonna amount to nothing, that I would die alone and no one would ever love me. And it's like, "Well, yes, I'm your mother. I'm just giving you advice. I'm just trying to guide you." And it's like, okay, that's not how that works, you know? And- Right ... I think that's been the biggest struggle, you know, talking about the ill will towards your parents. And I mean, of course, you know, that angry, especially teenage rebelling part of you is like, "I wish my mother was dead." And I know what I've worked on the most in my journey of faith is praying and saying, "God, look, I, I hate my mother. You know that. And I'm not gonna lie about that." But what I pray is that- She lives her own life and it's good. Away from me, away from me. I, you know, because at the end of the day, the biggest thing is I just wish she was away from me and that she would live a better life and treat those around her better. Yes, obviously part of me wants to be like, "Just kill her, God. Just, like, come on, there's so much lightning in the world. You can't just have one hit her house?" But, you know, the, the real journey I've been on is, you know, God, ultimately that is my mother and I, I may not have that maternal son bond with her like we were supposed to but I just wanna wish her better in life for the sake of my siblings, for the sake of other people she meets, and, and that has been a, a difficult part, you know? And I, I wanna ask the question, because I know you and your father were never really close like that. You mentioned that in the beginning of the episode. Has the passing of your grandfather and, and that need for family and connection kind of fixed things or moved things in a new direction? Or was it just a temporary, "Hey, we're all in this together for the next few weeks," you know, kind of thing? It was a literally one-off thing. It was just a, I needed a hug and for some reason he was the first person that came to mind. And you know, just his, his words were they weren't really comforting because he's like, "Oh, you know, he's not struggling anymore," and you know, "He was, he was up there in age," you know, something along those lines. And- Hmm ... like, I understand that's how he deals with death, so I mean, that's neither here nor there. What I think really dampened our relationship even more than it already was, was the, our dog that we had to put down. She should've been put down years ago, honestly. She's just been struggling with her health and couldn't walk. She's blind and deaf, and my dad was just while he was self-destructing, he was neglecting her health. Like, she was being fed and, you know, the basics of, of what a dog needs. But, you know, she wasn't being taken to the vet, her vaccines were never caught up, you know, so on and so forth. And I remember he finally came to the decision to put the dog down and, and I had to make the appointment. Like, of course it was all on me, like everything else is, and just felt a burden. And I remember saying to my aunt and uncle, I said, "These hands are the reason that dog is dead." And- Hmm ... you know, they immediately stopped me and they were like, "No, no. Like, you, those are the hands that stopped her from suffering." And, you know, they, they caught me in that regard, but when I made the appointment and everything and I told them how much it was gonna be, his first words still echo in my freaking head and it makes me so upset. "Oh, are you here to, you here to kill my dog?" It's like, dude- I don't feel great about it either, but don't put it all on me. And, and it just, ever since then, like I was telling my brother, like my biggest thing is movies. Like, I'm always quoting movies. Like, movies are my safe, my comfort place. Can't talk to him about movies because he ruins that experience for me. Our relationship is just, he's just there. I call him dad, but he's not a father, if that makes sense. I'm gonna say vice versa. He's a father, he's not a dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah. But I, I, I totally get what you're saying. K- well, for me, 'cause father is like biological term. Dad is like the character, the personality. But I totally get what you're saying and, and I've definitely had those experiences, and I think it, it is sad, you know? And I think that that's a, a thing, too, is there's so much pet neglect in the world, and then it ends up being the responsibility of people other than the owner. And, and, you know, that's just a sad bear- burden to have to bear, especially on top of a suicide and a family member passing away. That being said, where are you right now with your journey both mental health-wise and podcast-wise? We're seeing the growth of the podcast. We're seeing how every, you know, you're managing your pacing well. What is the future looking like, though? Are we, are we launching any in-person events? Are we gonna expand the mental health group online? Are we still kind of in that break period? What's it looking like? So right now, I haven't scheduled any anybody. I just kinda have content scheduled out till July. I'm just kinda taking, taking emails, just taking a look at people's stories, and I think I have actually one podcast scheduled for Friday. Other than that, I don't have podcasts that's self-scheduled. In terms of, like, mental health stuff I just kinda take everything day-to-day at this point, just kind of like I had therapy last Thursday, and that was just a really long conversation, just all the shit that's going on in life. And just trying to figure out where, where I fit in, man, and I just feel that some days are harder than others. And dealing with the, the car issues has not helped because I've been isolated in the house. Yeah, I just try my hardest, man. I, I just feel that a lot of people don't understand content creator burnout and don't realize how, how much of an impact it has on our mental health, right? It just, ... I said it a couple weeks ago, when you don't have the people cheering for you, you don't have the people openly supporting you as much anymore like you- they were in the beginning of your journey, and then you notice. And I don't do this as much as I did when I first started, but, you know, when you have a really good episode come out and the numbers don't reflect that, and just kind of like dog piling unnecessary stress on top of each other and dealing with the stuff that I don't have control over. I think that's the biggest struggle I have, is not being able to control how things, how I feel about things. Yeah. I, I, I get the creator burnout, trust me. You know, going over 300 plus episodes now over three years, and it's like There's only so much you can do to make the episodes reach people, you know, without paying to market it or whatever. It's like, hey, the content's good, you know, so what, why is it not reaching people? And it's just competing with hundreds of thousands of other podcasts and the algorithm battle of our social media clips being a wholesome piece of content you know, getting two likes and one share which is the guest who was on the podcast putting it on their story, right? And then that's it. Meanwhile, I scroll through all this brain rot and garbage on social media, and it's got, you know, hundreds of thousands of likes and reposts for, for what? And even if I have a funny clip of my show, maybe it'll reach a lot more people, but still not to the degree of that. And it, it's, it's hard being a small independent content creator and podcaster, you know? And I, I completely relate to that. It's, "Hey, this episode was so impactful, like I want it to reach people," but there's nothing I can do outside of paying money to market it. It's just people aren't finding it. And it's not like- Yeah ... I'm not putting it out there. I can only put it out there so much, you know? I mean, what do you want me to do, wear a T-shirt with the episode on it and a QR code and walk around? Like ... you know, it's, it's hard, and I think that's the biggest part too is like even when we do see the numbers, what do they mean? Did the person listen to the full episode or they just clicked on it and clicked off? Because that's YouTube's number one result- Mm-hmm ... that I get is that people- Yeah ... yeah, people, there's views. The view was three seconds long you know? Like, and it's just, it's hard when you're not seeing tangible results. And- Yeah ... you and I have both had people, you know, reach out to us like, "Hey, this episode made, ma- impact," or, "I really enjoyed this conversation." But like you said, that support's more in the beginning. And we can't expect everyone who's been on our show or a part of our group- Sure ... to support the show. Sure. It's reaching that new support that is the real difficulty, but also the real salvation of reaching those new people and getting that fresh feedback. And so- Yeah ... I completely agree that that burnout is real, and it's like, what am I doing wrong? And- I've had podcasts, I've had people on my show who started a podcast like two, three years after me and have already surpassed my download numbers or have taken off, and it's a dangerous game because they could be paying money to promote their podcast. Some of them are, are rich or have a, you know, f- they're, they're in their 50s, they've been saving up money, and they really launched this podcast as a business compared to you and I just started it not from a very financially wealthy position. We started it because we wanted to have an impact and we're, we're growing at the rate we're growing. Well, I mean, you've, you've been in 40-plus more countries since we last spoke, so the growth is there. It's just, it's a long game. You know this as well as I do. Organic growth is exhausting. It's, it is. And I don't, I don't think people understand how discouraging that can be. You can be six months down the road and only see one new country. Then like you said, somebody starts up a new podcast and they're already in 200 countries within the first week. And like, again, like you mentioned, they could be paying for marketing and stuff. Mm-hmm. And I've had people suggest that to me. I'm like, "Bro, I don't think you understand how much money, like, that takes just to get yourself in a decent spot." Yeah. But it's, like, just a minimum of, of like, it... For some services, like 100 bucks for just, like, maybe 100 views. And the, the scariest part is- Is it bots or real people? Because I don't wanna- Exactly ... pay for downloads. I wanna pay for retention and engagement, and that's much more difficult to do. Because download numbers sure, I mean, I could spend all this money, get, you know, h- hundreds of thousands of downloads, which get me sponsors, which gets me money to then do... But if those sponsors pay me and then they get no results because it's all bots, then they pull out and it damages my reputation. It's just a bad cycle. B- and, and, you know- Yeah ... how are we gonna stop a suicide if we have, you know, 50 bots or, or computers in some warehouse that downloaded our episode, you know? That doesn't- Yeah ... serve our mission, so it, it is- Exactly ... frustrating. You know, but it's part of the, the journey that we're on. And I mean, my, my anchor is faith, knowing that God's gonna take the episodes to the right person at the right time. Because a- at the end of the day, it's not about how many people see it, it's about who sees it. Me too. Yep. And, and, you know, it may be that one person who, whose life is changed. So, you know, it's, it's hard for it- any of y'all listening who are frustrated by this low growth, consistent growth is more important. Yeah. You could have a podcast blow up overnight- And the key word there, consistent ... and then no one comes back. Yeah. Yeah. That consistency is so important, and we've seen that with Pete, and- And I think a lot of people, and I think a lot of people really struggle with that consistency too, 'cause again, going back to the burnout thing I remember when I first was doing the podcast and I had my first couple of guests on there, and I would screen record, you know, just little clips off of YouTube, and then I would start to notice, I'm like, "Okay, nobody's sharing it, nobody's liking it, so why the hell am I doing this?" And I was like, "Okay, just keep toughing through, like, people will eventually catch on," and it never did. And again, just kind of going back to how the TikTok algorithm works and how the Instagram, I mean, forget Instagram. Instagram's really hard to reach anybody. Yeah. Same with Facebook. But I, I just feel it's so hard to introduce something new because everything has been done already. Every- everybody's clipping stuff. Mm. Everybody's doing these crazy TikTok trends in, on their podcasts and whatnot. And, you know, I don't know. It's a- It's really easy to get burnt out. Yeah. Well, one thing I think too, definitely some of these reels I make and it gets zero views are not pushed out by the algorithm. I had one about rape and consent the other day, algorithm refused to push it out. Zero, zero people. Like, YouTube Shorts, it always pushes out to initial target group, and this one was like, "No." And, you know, Seth Rogen, who's been on my podcast, does school shooting prevention and safety. They refuse to push out his content. And it's just so sad that genuine content is not prioritized. That, A, we'd rather push out an AI-generated video of an apple that cheated on a banana and had an affair, but then it turns out it actually had an affair with a kiwi, not with the pear that you thought it did. Like, this is the kind of stuff that gets so many likes and it's really sad. But I think, too, about how many social media clips I put out. Over 800, almost 900 on my Instagram, and I think, too, like, I'm not even checking ones from years ago. They could be blowing up right now, and, Mm-hmm ... unless people are commenting, I'm not gonna know. And that's the thing, too, is- We don't know when it's gonna land. Someone might discover that social media clip one day five years from now and be like, "Well, this is amazing. Where, where was that episode?" I actually had an episode the other day, someone was like, "Wow, I found this clip and I want to watch the whole podcast." And I was like, "Finally." You know, that's the whole point of the social media clips is to funnel back at least. Yeah. You know, so it, it is just never knowing where it's gonna land, but I still push out every day with that mindset of, hey, maybe this is gonna get zero views today, but at some point, someone's gonna take away something from it, you know? And, yes, it takes up some of my time and energy to make this clip, to put it out there, and maybe I won't ever see the reward, but, you know. One, one quote I quote a lot, pretty much every episode I say, "We're planting the seeds of a tree whose shade we will never sit under." And we're so focused on wanting to sit in the shade because we're out here working in the sun trying to grow this tree but we have to remember that it's for all the people for generations who are gonna sit- Mm under that shade. So with that being said, I'd love for you to promote the podcast right now actually. Of course, we... I mentioned it earlier on, but if you could promote that and your mental health group and everything you got going on. Yeah, man. So the podcast is called Voice for the Voiceless. The Facebook group is The Mental Health Movement. I think we have about 1,900 members in there. We welcome anybody, whether their creed, sexuality, whatever it is we welcome everybody in there. Just no politics, that's the number one rule. Yeah ... no prom- no promoting and spamming stuff in there. Otherwise, you know, it's a, it's a small family, but, you know, it's growing every day. And you know, just with that is, I think the hardest part of running that group is, again, going back to growth, you know. But we welcome anybody in there, anybody who's willing to come into a private group and become part of a, a community. Yeah, so again, and, and Chris, in case you haven't heard it today, thank you for what you do. You know, I, I understand as someone who does something similar the amount, as we've talked about in this episode, of frustration, of tough days, and all of this on top of what we're already going through. And, and this is an optional burden, right? We don't have to run these podcasts. We don't have to do all the extra things to try and make it, you know, pretty and perfect for people. So thank you for carrying this extra burden so that others might have theirs lighter. I really appreciate that. I respect the work you do, and I wanna thank you personally, man. Yeah, and, you know, same goes for you. I constantly try to make sure I keep up with what you're doing and really, really happy for everything that you're doing. I love seeing the content you put out, and love seeing the growth in the places that you travel, man. I think out of everybody that I've met in this circle, you're one of the most genuine, and you genuinely want growth and community with what we do. So I, I think that that in itself speaks for your character and your story, so thank you as well. Thank you. Yeah. All righty, ladies and gentlemen, that's it for today. The big takeaway, of course, check in on one another. You know, you never know what people are going through and so just che- check in on one another, 'cause this life bombards us with, with unexpected deaths, with financial crises, with, with the weather even. There's always something going on. So check in on one another, and if you feel alone, there are so many groups online and in person nowadays that you can be a part of. So just reach out, not just as someone reaching out to other people, but you reach out to people around you as well. So number one thing, reach out both ways, but thank you all.