The Extraordinary Men’s Network: Sobriety, Accountability, Understanding, & Mental Health

In this episode, I reconnect with Andrew Michael Houghton, founder of the Extraordinary Men’s Network, nearly two years after his first appearance on the show. Mr. Houghton joins me from Korea while I’m in Japan, and we catch up on sobriety, fatherhood, marriage, men’s mental health, accountability, and the work of building healthier communities for men.

Mr. Houghton shares how the past two years have been both difficult and deeply meaningful, including some of the hardest periods of his life alongside some of the most blessed. We talk about how sobriety changed his life, why community was essential to staying sober, and how his own recovery journey helped inspire the Extraordinary Men’s Network. Mr. Houghton explains that men need spaces where they can share honestly without judgment, receive accountability, and realize they are not alone.

We also discuss addiction, rationalization, relapse, and the dangerous belief that recovery has a final finish line. Mr. Houghton shares how alcohol became tied to confidence, escape, insecurity, and emotional regulation before eventually becoming destructive. I also reflect on how many people treat sobriety, marriage, self-improvement, or emotional discipline like a destination instead of a lifelong practice, and why lowering your guard can allow old patterns to return.

Later, we get into coaching, fatherhood, marriage, comparison, and the hidden stories men carry inside. Mr. Houghton explains how he became a coach after realizing that many men need more than information; they need support, honest reflection, accountability, and someone willing to challenge them without becoming a yes-man. We also talk about how men often compare themselves not only to social media and celebrity culture, but to internal stories inherited from parents, teachers, childhood, and society.

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Transcript

 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I should say it's actually just a couple of white guys living in Asia. That's that's actually what this call is right now. We've got Korea ex-Japan over here. But yeah, we are here with an extraordinary man. He actually was on the podcast almost two years ago. By the time this episode is released, he'll be approaching that two-year mark. Doesn't feel like two years. During that time, those two years, for the first half of that first year, we saw him occasionally at Coach Steve Wright. He runs a virtual water cooler event. We would sometimes see him freshly shaved, sometimes dark beard, darker hair, sometimes different backgrounds. I think he was part of-- We did a Father's Day special once and blah, blah, blah, and then, he disappeared into the wilderness of Korea, and I haven't seen him since then until now. You know he has his own stuff going on, and I catch the occasional Facebook post here and there, but, to actually have a conversation with him, it's been a while. We text a little bit now and then and so we've got a lot of catching up to do, so I gotta start with the first question. Well, I'll introduce your name for anyone who doesn't know you. Andrew Michael Hogan, founder of the Extraordinary Men's Network, a great guy, and my first question is just how have you been overall the past two years? Good, bad, somewhere in between? Terrible. Terrible. Uh, no. It's been, I would say somewhere in between more awesome than not awesome. It's been a rollercoaster for sure. It's-- Some periods were the worst I've ever experienced in my life, and others have been the peak of blessed, blessed experience, I would say. So yeah, it's been a time. Two years feels like, feels like two decades really. Yeah, and it can also feel like two days sometimes depending on our mood. It's true. When I look back at the v- I, I, 'cause I quickly searched, the other video, and it was - 2024 and August, yeah. And I'm like, "Who is that? Who's that guy?" We both look... Well, you, I mean, you still look incredibly young, so, but I do look different. And in the video I look even different from the thumbnail, so yeah. It does feel like yesterday, but it also does feel like an eternity ago. Yeah, you got that Hollywood actor thumbnail. That picture of you was, it's, it was a very striking picture. It's very, like, just a boldness to it that, uh... Yeah, that picture was definitely, when you sent it to me, I was like, "I think this is an older picture, but eh, you know, it's not-" it's not a dating profile. We can use it," you know? Uh, a dating profile I think you're, the rule is don't use a picture that's more than one year old or two years old, or nowadays- I don't know, mate ... six months old. I don't know. So yeah. But, when it comes to a YouTube thumbnail, you can use whichever one apparently, because there was a woman who guested on my podcast, and the headshot she had sent me ahead of time was, like, maybe 30s, and then she came on the podcast over 60 years old, and I was like, "Hold on now, ma'am, that, uh... Listen, I get if it was a few years ago, but, this picture's from 30 years ago." Like, quite literally. Like, I'm not even making that up. Like, you yourself said you're over 60s now, and I, I could just... Didn't, caught me off guard. I was expecting, you know. But yeah, so, all that to say that you've, you and I have both aged hopefully well. Yeah ... you know, we're, you know, it's part of life. And during that time, have you grown wiser and smarter and more patient? Or just less patient maybe? More wise, less patient. Who knows? Depends on the context, actually. I was immediately gonna say yes, wiser and calmer and more patient, and yet there's definitely elements in my life now where, no, I generally don't have tolerance for bullshit, I suppose- Mm ... that I used to. I mean, I used to tolerate all manner of things, including my own stupidity over and over again, whereas now I try to pick and choose where I'm spending my time, and I can be patient when needed, and I can also be like, "I'm not tolerating this, I'm leaving," kind of- Mm because this is a waste of my time, and I- I'd rather be with my kids, or I'd rather be, you know, doing something with my family- Right ... or whatever, so. I think you've developed an accent. You definitely don't sound the same. An accent? Yes. What kind of accent, Mr. Whiskey? I don't know. Somehow you sound more British/Scottish/Irish mixed than Korean. So I don't... It's just, uh, yeah, it's- Hallelujah. I don't know. I just... But, uh, yeah, so it's been a while, and I wanna get into the changes. We talked about you being the founder of the Extraordinary Men's Network. Before we even talk about changes with it, what is it, and why is it? So, yes. Why is it? What is it? It is a Facebook community for men. It is a Facebook community for men to support other men, and now we also let women in the community, too. It's now public, not just private. I wanted to open the doors. It started off as a, like, a seasonal thing over Christmas, actually, this year, or last year, I should say. And I just thought, "Why not?" As long as the rules are clear that this is not a come-and-fix-men group or, you know- Mm ... whatever women, whatever women might think. It's for women who have a passion. 'Cause there's a lot of great women coaches, therapists, counselors who, you know, they focus on men. So- Right why not have them in the group? And it's not... There's ways and means of doing things. If there's men that don't want... If, if men wanna say something that they don't want women to hear, there's ways we can do that. And I just thought there was no reason to prevent more conversation, so I opened it up. And I created it because when I got sober, I didn't know it at the time, but what allowed me, I think, to really succeed was having a community, having a men's group that met once a week online on Saturday mornings and then other things. But, without community, it was very hard to, well, stay sane, really, and also stay sober and- Keep my eye on the prize. So I knew that community was important, and then as I got into coaching, I wanted to have a space, 'cause I'm c- I chose to focus on men. So I wanted to have a community that would allow for me to speak to an audience of men, and also men to help one another too, because it really is about encouraging and promoting each other to get involved and share. And as more people share, more people feel less alone, and more people feel more camaraderie, and the rising tide raises all ships. So that was the why, and hopefully the what, I think. Right. And we'll get into the expansion and growth and lessons learned in a minute here. I wanna backtrack just for people who haven't met you before, talking a little bit about your sobriety and addiction journey. I know from our last conversation, which I didn't really listen to it, I actually just remembered it, 'cause I reference it pretty often actually- Oh, thank you ... which is one of the things we talked about is pretty universal with addiction. You and I spoke specifically about rationalization and justification. Now, the addict can rationalize any excuse to drink, right? You and I spoke in that conversation, I remember quite clearly, about my father and how he would say, "It's not gin, it's vodka," or "It's some... It's not sake, it's soju," right? Those kinds of conversation. Or, "It's a holiday today," or, "It's a day off," right? There's all kinds of reasons, but we need to go back to the reason why you got into addiction in the first place. Now that you've been sober and worked with men, looking back, how you have kind of uncovered what led you into that path.  I think it's in my DNA or something. I don't think there was a moment, but- Mm ... it, it was a very natural progression of high school teenage angst and insecurities, bullying and inferiority complex and low self-esteem from much earlier in my childhood from illness, hearing problems and teachers calling me stupid and a lot of different factors led into each other. Right. Right. And once I hit alcohol about 16, 17, probably 16, maybe 15 at family parties, it's like, "Wow, look at this feeling of, like, I could do anything," kind of thing, right? It gave me superpowers. It numbed certain feelings. It amplified some characteristics of myself. And I think once I really leant into that, it was inevitable that it was gonna get out of control eventually, and it did. When did it get out of control? In university, for sure. Coming to Korea just gave me a bit more freedom, but I was lucky to graduate in many respects, and I'm lucky to maintain a job out here in Korea, too. It was ridiculous, ridiculously out of control, and I'm glad that it's behind me. So then what was the turning point for sobriety? It was, as simple as it sounds, it was being sick and tired of hating myself and a combination of sadness- Mm ... just no respect for myself. And as I started doing therapy around depression and things, it was made clear to me that alcohol is such a controlling factor in my emotions that if I didn't give it a break at least, then I wouldn't really make any progress in anything, with depression or anger or whatever. So it was suggested AA, and I joined a meeting, and then from that day I never drank again. Mm. Now it's been five years. Mm. And a amazing lesson in itself right there just because of the timeline of that. Mm. You know, the fact that at your age, you know, achieving sobriety, because some people believe it's too late. And I always put forward on the show that it's never too late. I've had people who were addicted for 30 years, 40 years find recovery. I've had people much older than you, actually, find sobriety, you know. So it's never too late. It's a matter of choice. And so I always say be supportive with boundaries of the people who are going through addiction, regardless of their age or how long it's been. And again, supportive with boundaries, not enablement. And I have whole episodes dedicated to that, to codependency and to enablement. Very difficult, very prevalent subject when it comes to addiction. But I wanna- Yeah ... focus on, you know, addiction in particular, actually. Now we are seeing rises in the amount of women who commit violent suicide and who are addicted. In fact, a lot of women commit silent suicide, which is through pills or alcohol, though we've seen a rise in firearm suicides in women. But most men are ... I don't wanna call them a statistic, but the statistics are it's mostly men, who are committing suicide and who are dealing with addiction. You know, again, I highlighted women because it's a human issue, and it's regardless of age. But for men particular, especially you running Extraordinary Men Network, have you kind of experienced that suicidal ideation or addiction use or depression is much more prevalent and it's just not spoken about? Like, have you found the men in your network... The fact that they're even part of the network means they're a little more open to being vulnerable, of course. So have you found them, have they opened up to you and really opened your eyes to some of the issues men are facing? In a, a little bit. Not as much as I believe you know, they could. I try to encourage it by leading by example. Mm. And however, it generally happens more on the one-to-one calls. Yeah. So when we do interviews, when we do introductions, it happens then. And it always just almost, almost... If I could cry, I would, I think. It almost brings me to tears, their gratitude for me listening to them and encouraging them to share more with me. Like, these are men ranging from, in their 20s to midlife, like 40s, all the way up to, like, 60s and 70s, and they've never had a chance to share without judgment, without, interference, and just let them share their story. And the gratitude that they have and it's right back to them. Like, I'm grateful, too, because as I said earlier, the more people witness others sharing, the more it inspires them or encour- like, lets them know that it's okay. Right. Like, it's, it's safe to do that. And yeah. So I'm incredibly grateful to them. In terms of the particular things you mentioned- No. Not directly. I do see people mentioning, like, it's hinted at, but, one of the- Mm ... problems I think with social media, Facebook, is that you can't use certain words because- Mm ... it'll get blocked. It'll get deleted, banned. So I don't know if that's part of it, but there's a lot of isolation, there's a lot of depression, and there's a lot of addiction to other things. I can't remember what the names of them. It's not not available in Korea, but gas stations in America sell them. They're like pills or, or liquid that you drink. It, it's a, it's like a evolution from that 5-Hour Energy from 20 years ago. Now it's these pills that they can be related to ED, but they're mostly related to, like, dopamine basically, like- Are any of them, like, liquid or chewing nicotine or stuff like that? Or- They look like that, but they're not nicotine. They're- 'Cause those products are, are spreading as well now. I see a lot of military members are getting, like, nicotine chewing gum or- Yeah ... other stuff rather than having cigarettes, tobacco, or other stuff and- That's, that, that sounds fine. No, this is something a lot more dodgy because it's not FDA checked and it's not- Mm measured by what the dose... So like, for example, if it says it gives you five hours of erection, it could actually end up giving you 30 hours because it's not measured. They don't really know what they're putting in each pill. It happened to a guy I know, actually. He had 14 hours and they tried to get him to go to hospital to get drained, but he said, "No needle is going nowhere. I'll just-" "... you know, it's gonna be here until it's here, and hopefully no permanent damage." Um- I just found it. It's, it's called kratom. Kratom? Mm. But yeah it's an evolution of this ingredient that comes from a particular plant that gives a much like a amphetamine, like ADHD medication- Mm, mm ... or cocaine effect. But it's very, very addictive and it's very dangerous because it's not, it, it's not, what's the word? Um, monitored. It's not monitored. Right, right. No, it's not, it's not- They're made in China, I think, and they're brought in, and because they're not the- they're just like a food or a snack, they can sell them anywhere. And they could just switch the labels- Mm ... and even the people who sell it don't know how much is in it. So the labels- Right. When there aren't pharmacy restrictions- Yeah ... and you just market it as a food or drink product. Now, where are you seeing it? You, like, some men have approached you about this with their children doing it- Yeah or has it been just the community or? No, they're doing it. The men are using it. Men are using it. Oh, okay. Yes. So they're, one of it is like a dopamine substitute, so it is like, um- Right, that feel, yeah ... an u- an upper. Some of it is related to boner pills, but it's... Yeah, it's highly addictive, and they spend a fortune on it. It's expensive too. So that is something that shocked me because I heard a lot about fentanyl, and then suddenly fentanyl seemed to disappear- Right ... off from the mass media. And now this new thing has popped up, and it's like, "What is this?" Because it's not in Korea. I've never seen it in the UK. But apparently it's very readily available at gas stations and head shops. Is that what we call it? You know, the, the places that sell bongs- Oh, mm ... and stuff like that. Apparently very dangerous. So- Interesting ... always something new to be addicted to. And I, like you said, it's the stress, it's the underlying factors that are getting these people, men or women, addicted to something that temporarily makes them feel good but will kill them or drive them to- Right want to die, I suppose. And it's- Right ... very troubling. And if it's not negative factors behind it, then it's social pressure or glamorization of said substance. You know, we've got a lot of music culture, social media culture, and stuff that glamorizes certain lifestyles to include the sexualization of women, glorifying gang violence and club life and even, drugs and alcohol. And even just excessive use of prescription drugs are promoted in some songs, unfortunately, you know? Yeah. So that's something that we can definitely get into. But I wanna talk about, you talked about coaching. So tell us a little bit about your coaching program, because that's where you're getting more of the nitty-gritty and the vulnerable details. And so, what got you into that line of work? Obviously, kind of along the same lines of Extraordinary, Men's Network, but what was it? You just felt like you weren't getting the public answer, so let's see how private works? Or what drove you for that? It started with me, selfishly. It started with me having a therapist and then a coach, and then wanting-- I wasn't satisfied really with what the coaches were doing. It was very, it felt repetitive. It didn't feel like it was getting very deep. So I wanted to learn the tools myself. So I got involved with the, that, that's that badge up there, the Neuro Encoding Institute, which is run by Joseph McClendon III, business partner of Tony Robbins, and he teaches us how to coach. So it's, all about me-methodology of coaching and presentation, and it starts with us. So, his quote is, "Physician, heal thyself." So do the work on yourself, do the work with a partner, like a peer in the coaching institute, and then go out and spread it to the world, right? So it started with me, and once I started seeing the benefits and the differences in my, you know, the shifts in me, in my confidence, in my esteem, in my desire and, like- What would you call it? Like, passion to live, I suppose. Like, I had ambitions in the past, but I would often just brush them away, you know, like, "Eh, I can't do that. That's, that's not me." You know, someone will give me a compliment, "That's a nice photo. Are you a professional?" I'd be, "Oh, no, no, I couldn't do that," you know. Uh, so overcoming a lot of that stuff, fear of rejection, fear of failure, was amazing. So I absolutely wanted to share it with people, and that's what got me into coaching men because I realized that the person I can connect to the fastest and maybe the most effectively is me five years ago. Mm. So what did I need five years ago? I needed support. I needed understanding. I needed accountability, and that's what I wanna provide for men because knowledge is out there, right? You only have to look at YouTube, ChatGPT, they can coach you. Right. But are they gonna hold you accountable, or are they just gonna agree with everything you say? I'm not anti-AI coaching or YouTube. It's just there's limits to what it can do for keeping you on track and accountable and questioning you, right? Mm-hmm. A coach or a good coach will make sure that you are reviewing your own thoughts, if you know what I mean, to, to, to- Right ... not, not become a yes man. Like, "I think I'm doing really well." "Yes, you are doing really well." "How about you're ready to drink again. Well done." No, that's not... We need to really dig deeper and find, you know, find the answers inside yourself and ask yourself if you believe them. So my job as a coach is to maintain the desire that people want to achieve the goal and keep them going. Hmm. If that makes sense. Along those lines then, what has been the most frustrating part? Is there something in particular that men seem to fail at or relapse on? Not addiction-wise, maybe it's addiction, but just like s- y- 'cause you hold them accountable, right? So you're the guy who has to keep track of this stuff. Is there something that they always fail to do or they're just not understanding? Not because maybe they don't want to do it, but it just seems to be a repetitive failure point for them. Maybe it's just overcoming self-love or maybe it's the check-in with themselves or whatever it may be. What do you find is kind of like the main failure point? Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head with self-love. That's the biggest challenge, but it's not the failure point. I think the- Hmm ... failure point is feeling like... I think this is just a human thing, but maybe it's slightly more prevalent in men, is that we think we learn a skill and then we're done, right? Living and/or adulting or, being a man is a never ending practice that- Hmm. Mm-hmm ... you don't just master and get a certificate and then you're good to go, right? You need to keep doing it. If you don't use it, you lose it, and that's the failure point. They feel-- they reach a point where, yes, things are under control, things are good, the marriage is back on track, the connection with the kids is there again, the passion for their work is, is back. And it's true. However, a week, two weeks, a month, two months, and then they're back knocking on my door saying- Yeah ... "Why isn't it working? I thought I was healed." It's like, "I never said you were healed. Healed? This is not a healing thing, right? This is building a- Mm ... practice of..." It's, if you're, if you know much about like, for example, Buddhism, right? You, you never graduate from Buddhism. It's a never-ending practice of being in a state of mind, if you like. And it's the same with life. You, you keep having to do... You don't have to do it with the same intensity, I would say. However, you do need to maintain that awareness that if you don't, if you don't keep going to the gym, let's say three days a week, you're gonna end up gaining weight. And it's the same with your anger, depression, frustration, self-pity, fears You need to keep exercising those muscles and keep doing the work so that you don't relapse, I suppose, like you said. That's the failure point. Right. Right. They're looking for a destination rather than a journey, because it is a journey. You know, they're looking for recovered, not in recovery, because there's this negative connotation that if you're still recovering, that you'll never be fully recovered. But like you said, until we are dead, which is the destination for us all, you're always gonna have these things come up, and I think, like you said, people lower their guard. You know, they don't- Right ... stay on guard, and this is what gets a lot of addicts too, you know. Knowing your limitations and levels of, "Hey, I can go to a party where they're serving alcohol, and I have built up the discipline and resolve that I will not drink, on my own or if offered." For some people, they don't reach that point. "Hey, if there's a party with alcohol, I'm not going, because I don't have the self-control. I have enough to stay home and not have it in my house," whatever it may be, "and to walk past the bar. But if I'm in it, then it's happening," you know? So I think it's really an- Yeah ... understanding of self. And what we want to know is- You have to know yourself. Yeah. Sorry. I think sometimes we don't wanna understand ourselves, we wanna understand the self we wish we were or that we're trying to be- Right ... ahead of time, right? You know, and it's good to wanna be that and to pursue that, but you can't act like that and not actually be it. When it comes to stuff like this, to your marriage, to addiction, to whatever it is, your career, right, the fake it till you make it, if you don't have the stuff set up to actually achieve it, you can end up in a dangerous situation. And we know a lot of people relapse, whether it's through rehab, in addiction treatment centers, AA, a faith-based organization- Across all of those, there is a high relapse rate, and that's just because, people lower their guard. And I love the way that, Dr. Brian Licuanan was on this podcast once, how to get your addicted ones into rehab, a guide for family members, and he described, addiction as a demon doing pushups in the corner. And it might not be actively attacking you, but it's training every day for the minute you decide to walk up to it and be like, "Hey, you." You know? And so I think that we forget that because some people, and this is actually what failed my father, was his goal of addiction recovery was to get back to sustainable drinking, to just heal his liver enough, to heal enough to get a point to where I can control it. But what happens is you go back. A lot of people are drinking or they're sobering up to drink once again, you know. And it, it seems ironic, but that's the thing. And the purpose and drive behind your addiction recovery is really what's gonna determine it in addition to being on guard, not just with addiction, but like you said, your marriage. I think that's one of the most important things, that you can get your marriage to a good point again. But I like... I love a scene in The Flash that I always think about, they're scolding The Flash for changing the timelines, and he said, "But I went back in time and stopped myself from changing timelines, so everything should be fine." And what the mentor did is he broke a ceramic mug at hyper speed and then glued it back together, and it was a perfectly usable mug, but you could see the cracks. And it's just like the human body with scars, right? You can be healed, but there's still scarring, and that means that area is always gonna be a little more sensitive to get recut open or, sunburnt, whatever it is. And so fixing something doesn't mean... And even being fully healed doesn't mean it's ever gonna be the same, and it means it's more vulnerable. Sure, or stronger. I would say there's arguments to be made for both. Yeah, yeah. I think vigilance is key, right? Ignorance is The, ruining of everything and being aware of the issue, the challenge, the broken part, that will keep you safe if you stay aware. Yeah. And then with the expansion of Extraordinary Men's Network, what are you seeing in the future? Are you looking at virtual summits and conferences, trying to host in-person events? Where do you see this really going? Because you want this to not just be a virtual location, but really a movement. You know, really a community and a gathering of people inspiring one another, and most importantly, passing it on to the next generation so that these young men are growing up with this information ahead of time, rather than in their 40s, 50s, 60s trying to rebuild life. You know, if we can set up for these young men to get it properly the first time, how much better that would be. Yeah, right. For real. Um, yeah. The-- It's become very, very clear to me that moving away from... I mean, the online will always be there, the commu- the community for the global aspect, the ease of connecting. Right. However, getting it offline and getting communities set up in, you know, various cities and countries is what I wanna do as, as quickly and as eff- you know, efficiently as possible. I'm trying to make connections with people who already have various types of kind of brotherhood, men's wellness- Right communities set up, and I want to try to join them together in a global network so that... I, I would love-- What I would love to see is, you know, if you're in the Extraordinary Men's Network or the name changes to something else, where-- Like AA, when you arrive or before you go somewhere, you just search the country's name and AA, and you can find a meeting in any country. Mm. And even if it's Zoom, but pretty much face to face these days. Now we're all, out of COVID and stuff. But, yeah, you can find a meeting anywhere. I didn't know that when I got sober. I didn't even know. I thought it was a Hollywood thing. But, now I know. So I would love to see a future as soon as possible where men, when they go somewhere, have a community ready for them to pop in and just be like, "Hey, guys, good to know you're here, because when I have a meltdown because my kids do da, da, da, da, or my wife says da, da, da, or my parents-in-law," da, you know, whatever it is, they can go there and- And have support Yeah Just like an alcoholic can or a drug addict or any other 12-step program, so. Hmm. And then coaching these men, running the Extraordinary Men's Network, and doing all this work, what have you found? We talked a little bit about the failure points and relapsing of the self-reflection journey. What about marriage? You know, it's, not an easy thing. I'm sure you can testify to that, right? What seems to be... Have you noticed any repeat issues in the marriage that are just- ... affecting so many men? Ah. Yeah. And it's a common one in all things. It's taking it personally. Hmm., It's what your partner or spouse says. For me and my wife, like, what she says, it's so easy to take it as a representation or a, uh, a spark from something I did or I said or didn't do. Hmm. Like, my failure And if it was me, I would obviously look at, well, what did I do to bring this about? Like, what-- If I had made a mistake or if I'm angry about something, what brought that about, right? The, what thoughts were going on, what actions were happening at the time. And I need to do that with the other person too. Instead of blaming myself because they're upset, I need to look at their life and really just have an open mind about why they are feeling the way they're feeling, and not blame them, right? It's very easy to get into this cycle of, "Oh, you're angry. Well, I'm angry too," and th- and, and that doesn't help anything. So really, a lesson I took from AA is seeing people as sick people, if you know what I mean. Mm. An alcoholic is not a bad person. They're a sick person, and you would treat a sick person very differently from a criminal, right? Mm. And it's the same with like when my wife is, you know, at her most, can I say, insufferable. When she's at her most like, you know, claws in me- Right ... kind of thing, I have to treat her like a sick person, because she's like that for a reason. And it very- Mm ... well could be me, or it very well could be something else, and I just wanna love her and get my mind... You know, I'm very much into frequency and thoughts that are the foundation of all of this. So what-- I need to be in a calm space and absorb her, whatever she's putting out there, so that she can let it out, and then we can have a conversation about it once the, you know, once she settles too. So- Mm ... it's tough. Kids as well. You know what I didn't mention, last time we spoke, I had a two-month-old baby. And now she's two years old- Mm ... and walking and talking and doesn't need diapers anymore, and she's amazing. However, having two kids, a five-year-old and a two-year-old, boy, does it bring on stress, shall we say. Yes. Yes. And it's very hard to regulate that between my wife- Mm ... and I, because we're both feeling it. So we don't-- What do we do? Take it out on each other? No, that's not the right thing to do. So it's a real challenge to step outside of the situation and look at it from a very neutral perspective and give grace and patience to everybody involved, because- Just like kids can't be held respon- you know, a two-year-old can't be held responsible for their actions, we adults can't too always. You know? We can make amends more readily as adults. Mm. However, it's so much beneficial to give s- people grace and to know that they're doing the best they can with the tools they have. Just 'cause you're 40 doesn't mean you have all the tools to cope with every situation perfectly. Right. 100%. And then, as we start to get ready to wrap this episode up, what do you want the main message to be to all the men listening? Number one, that they're all extraordinary men, right? I mean, the, you put the word extr- and let's get into that. Why did you pick the word extraordinary? What was the message you were trying to give with that? Partly it was to remind myself or to hypnotize myself into accepting, because I would, in my coaching cohort, I would say, "I'm just an ordinary guy. What can I do?" And they'd be like- Mm ... "Shut that down. Like, what are you talking about? You're ex- you- Right ... you're extraordinary if nothing else. You live, you're, you moved around the world, you're married with an, you know, an international family, and you got these beautiful kids, and you're a stepdad. You didn't have to do that. Like, you got sober and..." And I'm like, okay, I have to... Not have to, I want to, and I get to accept that. Mm. It might not be extraordinary on other people's levels, but it is to me. Mm. And it is to my kids, and it is to my wife. So I want to... I got to accept that I'm extraordinary, and I want other men to realize that comparison is the thief of joy, and you are all extraordinary if you say you are and you want to be. Right? Right. You just have to do some work sometimes to really get clarity on your extraordinariness, because a lot of it is cloudied up and you're cloud- muddied up and- Mm-hmm ... just messy with other people's opinions and society's bad programming of you. And you are extraordinary men, and you don't have to live in mediocrity So many of us settle for just simmering sadness, you know? Like simmering level of satisfaction where it's just- Mm ... not enough. Like, for 40 more years, I can- If I, if I was, if I didn't make the changes I made five years ago, I don't know where I would be now, and I couldn't imagine five years later, like just that, 'cause I, I can- It's potential ... even get worse. Yeah, it- Yeah that low boiling depression and suffering and dissatisfaction with myself and the world, like it just gets worse and worse. And you don't have to stay that way I'm not talking about being a whiny pee pants or a, you know, a complainer, a victim. I'm talking about accepting reality and starting to... You, ugh, sorry, I'm going a bit over, but I have a teenage son, stepson, and he's now, he's now 20, but I keep thinking about him and what I would love him to know from me. And it's hard to- Right ... we have a cultural language barrier, but- The sooner you start taking ownership of your life, and I mean like the great books, Extreme Own- Ex- Extreme Accountability? No, Extreme Ownership? Which one is it? Anyway, it changes your life because you stop blaming other people, and even though it might not be quite as obvious in every situation that it's your responsibility, it gives you a feeling of authority and power of your own life that you probably never felt before So speak out, talk to somebody, find an expert, speak to someone who's been through it, and start taking ownership of your own life and your own future, because it's liberating. It's hard, painful as well sometimes, but it's really liberating, and it'll give you the best times as well as some pain. For sure. No, thank you for sharing all that. I think that's great, and I want all the men listening to know that they're extraordinary because-- not just because they're not telling themselves, because there's a lot of people in the world telling them the opposite. You know- Yeah ... there's so much hate and misandry out there, and I don't say that to minimize or diminish the misogyny out there or the evil that men do, but I wanna highlight that it is both sides, and we forget that sometimes. We lean in one direction or the other often. And so there's a lot of men being told that they're not extraordinary because they're, nowadays for shallow reasons, they're not tall enough, they don't make enough money, they're not good-looking enough, or, you know, they're not hustling enough, whatever it is. And like you said, comparison is such a huge thing, not just us comparing ourselves, but we're comparing so many people to these celebrities, to these social media clips, to these projected images from mainstream media, music video culture, and whatever else it may be. So I want everyone to know that they are extraordinary and to tune out all of just the useless comparison, all of these comments from people. And it's hard, you know, going online and seeing all this stuff that's against men, or maybe it's your race, or maybe it's your gender, or maybe it's, you know, whatever you do. And I just want you to know that you gotta... Go ahead. You're raising your hand or ? I, I wanna add, just a-add one more- Yeah ... because it's not in the comparison. We're also comparing ourselves to a fantasy or i-imaginary story that we're not even fully aware of unless we- Mm ... really dive into it and try, like get meta. You know, like you can say, "Okay, I'm comparing myself to nonsense on Instagram. Okay, I'll block Instagram, block video." Do all that. Stop watching TV. Stop watching the news. And yet you have ideas in your head from your parents and teachers and childhood of- Yeah ... what a man is supposed to be, what a woman is supposed to be, what a good mum is supposed to be, what a good dad is supposed to be, and you don't even know they're there, right? And you're comparing yourself to that, and it- Mm and that on its own, like you, you can go live in a cave somewhere and still- Mm ... have comparison ruin your life because there's ideas in your head that you're never gonna live up to. So- Yeah. Yeah, it's not just the external, but the internal is the most important part right there. And I think, what I'm trying to put forward is that eliminating or minimizing the external will help you focus more on the internal because you need that change. And then maybe you can go back to the external with that alertness, with not ignorance, you know? So I think that's really important. And we do encourage the use of social media and online connections for what we're doing right now, having this conversation, for the Extraordinary Men's Network, for other groups and, one thing I like to highlight is that no matter how niche or outcasted you think you feel, there's almost a group online for it nowadays for almost everything. You know, you can find your people, and I think that is the beauty of all this global connection, and having this conversation now. Ladies and gentlemen, I highly encourage you to check out the Extraordinary Men's Network maybe it's not for you, but maybe it's be helpful for someone you know. So just, please share that. We're gonna have it in the description below. And then of course, I'd love for you to share Mr. Houghton about, working with you, coaching with you, how people can get in contact and kind of what they'll get out of that service and what they should be looking for. Yeah. Really the best thing to do is follow me on Facebook. That's where I put all my free content and give a lot of advice and tips for proactively, moving your life to a better standard, a better quality, I would say, you know, more joy. My coaching is either one-to-one, six-month coaching, or I have a new 14-day intensive, which is very small group and high accountability, daily support. But again, if you wanna know more about that- Just check my Facebook page, send me a DM- Mm ... or put a comment on one of the posts where I mention it, and if you're serious about wanting to make an improvement, we'll do it. That's the only thing I ask, is that you are serious about it. So just, you find me, Andrew Michael Horton, on Facebook, and, click a like and I'll message you or you message me, and yeah, we'll, we'll start the ball rolling because it's baby steps, but those baby steps quickly lead into massive change. So yeah, your future is waiting. Right, and there's no better time than right now. Every day we push off and procrastination is just more pain and hardship, so 100%. But again, it's never too late, whether that's addiction, accountability, or self-improvement. And then Mr. Horton, great to have this connection when we're in more convenient time zones together. You know, Japan and Korea. Still not the best convenience, you know, but, um- Oh, it's, it's great for me- Love it ... it's in the afternoon. I didn't know you were in Japan. Sorry. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm in Japan for three months, uh, for the whole summer, basically. Yeah, feel, feel free to come visit if you want, if you, you know, if that's easy to do. You too. Hop on over to South Korea- Yeah, yeah ... if you wanna have some delicious Korean kimchi. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, kimchi's a little too spicy for me. Like I said, we're a couple of white guys. You, you probably have built a tolerance to it. I'm still- I love it. I love my kimchi. Yeah ... I'm, I'm working on it. Chigae and- But I do like the, um... they're like potato pancakes kinda thing. Um, I don't know- Yeah, yeah ... the exact name for them. They're good. Mm. So yeah. Uh, but ladies and gentlemen- Potato, always good ... thank you for listening. And then of course, Mr. Horton, extraordinary man, thank you so much for what you do, and I hope that, you know, we're reaching, men, the women who take care of them and help, them and support them, and then also especially the young men. You know, there's so many different influences out there right now, and I hope we're reaching the young men who feel alone and unheard and all the- I hope so too ... the men who feel alone and unheard, and just know that you are heard. And, if you're not reaching out, we're gonna try to reach out to you. So- That's right ... thank you for your time today. I wanna tell them to stop tolerating. Stop tolerating- Mm ... the sadness and the dissatisfaction of day to day. Please reach out