Folks, if you’re searching for a great property investing role model, then Emer, today’s Summer Series guest, is your person! ⭐🙌
Today, she and her husband, Rod, own a five-property portfolio and are looking towards a future with a comfortable retirement and legacy piece to leave two kids.
Getting to this stage, however, hasn’t come without its ups and downs.
Tune in to hear Emer’s story as she swings from living paycheck to paycheck in Galway to meeting her future husband in sunny Australia to the property market crash they narrowly escaped.
This is just the beginning of the story.
We’re diving deep to uncover how they overcame getting stung by a spruiker, why they decided to go borderless, and the positive transformative process they underwent by getting a financial plan.
It’s another motivational, heart-warming story with an awesome guest. Tune in now!
LISTEN TO THE FIRST 20 EPISODES HERE >>
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FREE MASTERCLASS:
- How to Build a Property Portfolio and Retire on $2,000 a week >>
FREE BEST-SELLING BOOKS:
- The Armchair Guide to Property Investing
- Make Money Simple Again
FIND US HERE:
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Folks, if you’re searching for a great property investing role model, then Emer, today’s Summer Series guest, is your person! ⭐🙌
Today, she and her husband, Rod, own a five-property portfolio and are looking towards a future with a comfortable retirement and legacy piece to leave two kids.
Getting to this stage, however, hasn’t come without its ups and downs.
Tune in to hear Emer’s story as she swings from living paycheck to paycheck in Galway to meeting her future husband in sunny Australia to the property market crash they narrowly escaped.
This is just the beginning of the story.
We’re diving deep to uncover how they overcame getting stung by a spruiker, why they decided to go borderless, and the positive transformative process they underwent by getting a financial plan.
It’s another motivational, heart-warming story with an awesome guest. Tune in now!
LISTEN TO THE FIRST 20 EPISODES HERE >>
MOORR MONEY MANAGEMENT APP:
👉 Apple: https://apple.co/3ioICGW
👉 Google Play: https://bit.ly/3OT86bW
👉 Web platform: https://www.moorr.com.au/
FREE MASTERCLASS:
- How to Build a Property Portfolio and Retire on $2,000 a week >>
FREE BEST-SELLING BOOKS:
- The Armchair Guide to Property Investing
- Make Money Simple Again
FIND US HERE:
- Website
- Instagram
- Facebook
- Youtube
All right folks, welcome back to another edition of the summer series here on the Property Couch, and today we are talking to an expat family who left Ireland and escaped the property crashes to build a five property portfolio right here in Australia. Ben, what else do we cover?
Speaker 2:Well, mate, it hasn't all been smooth sailing though, has it, Bryce? We're talking about an off the plan mistake, but there's also a message in this story about keep going, even if you don't get it right the first time. Try, try again.
Speaker 1:Keep going, folks. That's a wonderful message. Let's rip into the show.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Property Couch where each week, you get to listen to two of Australia's leading property and money experts Bryce Holdaway, co-host of Location Location, location Australia on FoxTales Lifestyle Channel and co-host of Escape from the City on the ABC. And Ben Kingsley, chair of property investors council of Australia and a back to back winner of the property investment advisor of the year award, and both the partners of the multi award winning in Powell wealth. Co-creators of more, the free lifestyle design app, as well as best selling authors of the armchair guy to property investing and make money simple again. Stay tuned as they bring you the insiders guide to property finance and money management.
Speaker 1:Hi Ben. We've got a very special guest today on this edition of the summer series. We are talking to TPC listener Ema Heffernan. Welcome to the Property Couch, ema.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.
Speaker 1:It's good to be having you here as well. Now we've got a little accent there. We probably should disclose where that's from.
Speaker 4:Yes, Ireland. I grew up in the northwest of Ireland, a place called Sligo.
Speaker 1:Northwest of Ireland. I am going to do a very, very terrible attempt at an accent, but it might. We might riff it off throughout the episode, but thanks for joining us today. You are a podcast listener. You've been listening to us for a number of years, so you know my very first question that's coming Ema, so we might as well start from the top, but we want to know a little bit about you. We want to know the backstory around money and conversations you had with your family when you were growing up.
Speaker 4:Yes, so, like I say, I came from Ireland, grew up in Sligo, in the northwest of Ireland, very just normal childhood. I'm one of five, second second oldest. Two brothers, two sisters. My mom was a stay at home mom. My dad was a fitter by trade and did was one of those people who just did heaps of other jobs along the way. Yeah, just sort of grew up quite normal. You know, my mom ran a bed and breakfast in the house for a number of years so I helped out with that and we just sort of, yeah, everything was just easy.
Speaker 4:And like I look back now and go, oh God, I wish my kids, you know, had that type of lifestyle. Like we grew up in the country and, you know, on this nice house with some land and things like that. And again, like I hated it as a teenager, like you know, because I was like this is in the middle of nowhere, I can't get anywhere. But now I see it and go, oh God, I wish I had all of that for my kids, you know. So yeah, that was it. But yeah, pretty pretty normal childhood by those standards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I guess you mentioned mom was stayed home and dad was a fitter. So what were the? What were the observations that you were seeing around how they manage money? Was it osmosis, or did they have conversations with you?
Speaker 4:And not really conversations as such, like I kind of I remember my mom, like every Saturday she would go in do her food shopping and she'd have my dad's check with her and she'd do the food shopping, she'd get the petrol, she'd do like pay sort of all the things that had to be paid. And it's funny, like I kind of have developed the same habit. Like Rod, he gets paid weekly, so we would, you know, I would do the food shopping on that day and get petrol and pay all the things that need to be paid, and my kids get the pocket money on that day, like all of that kind of stuff. That, yeah, you just have done the same thing, like and it was more, I think, being one of five as well, like you know, obviously we weren't was money handed to us all the time. If we wanted something, we kind of, as we got older, we had to save for it or work for it or whatever. We weren't really given pocket money and things like that.
Speaker 2:We just, yeah, you just went out and got it, and you know we were never deprived of anything, but we didn't weren't given heaps of things either, was that a product of being in a situation where you didn't know what was out there, because you grew up in the country and so you're able to X boxes or phones or like that.
Speaker 4:No, like no, we didn't have any of that. And you know, and I think that's where I kind of think it was really like when, when you go to school, obviously you know you see people that have things and there's always people who you know. There's always that one girl who has, like you know, the latest clothes and the latest everything. But for most of my friends it was very like we all kind of grew up the same.
Speaker 4:None of us had heaps of anything and like, what you seen was in magazines and you'd, you know, might say for you know, some makeup or a top or a dress or something like that, but it wasn't like all the time. And I don't think even living in the country was the thing. I think it was just sort of the generational thing that it wasn't like in your face all the time, whereas nowadays, like I've got a 12 year old daughter and she's, you know, it's constant Like she sees things that are in her, like that she wants a lot and I, you know, in some ways it's a lot harder for them because they're faced with this every single day, like we kind of are. Only we only had it every now and then. Can I give?
Speaker 2:you a little side story there my son, I bought him a Golden State Warriors you know basketball jumper and he wore it to school yesterday and he said, dad, you know how many people ask me whether it's an original or a fake. You know, like a copy or so that's the sort of conversations that are going on in the school playgrounds that they've got to be authentic as opposed to copies or whatever. And I'm like, don't worry about that. You know why are you worried about whether it's whether it is or it isn't, because ultimately, it's still doing the same sort of thing. It's a top to where if you're playing a bit of basketball or whatever. But it's incredible about you know that, that whole idea of the, the ending that's going on and and this sort of idea that you've got to have the brands and you like basketball runners, the whole thing. So, and which sort of a question back to you, around in the country, given that you were remote, was there any sort of part-time work that you could do to be?
Speaker 4:able to make one. When I say we're in the country, it's not like Australia country, like six miles from like Slago Town, and you know so we weren't like. You know, we got the bus to school and that was in Slago Town, like it wasn't, like it was in the middle of nowhere and you know we still had access to all the shops and everything like that it was, but I think it was just a thing that you just didn't get. You know, I distinctly remember getting certain things that I really wanted and the day I got them and there was heaps of other things that I didn't get. You know, it was just. I think it was just. My friends were all like that, like it wasn't we all got. You know, someone would get something one day and then someone else would get it another day, but there wasn't this intense competition like what there is nowadays with kids with everything, like you know, the water bottles, the jerseys, the basketball shoes In gratification yeah.
Speaker 4:Yes, no, we didn't have that. We were told, basically we're not getting that.
Speaker 1:I think we're going to get together as a community of parents and get together and go. As soon as you stick your head out, it means that ours needs to stick this. So if we can all get together and keep the expectations the same, I think you know you grew up the same as your friends, with the occasional outlier. It'd be nice if we go back to those those days.
Speaker 4:The Instagram you know and stuff and all of that. You know we got. We got like magazines, like I remember getting smash hits magazines. That was what we were. We got every year. I don't even know if we got it every week, but every few weeks we got it. And you know you'd look at things but and you would dream, but that will be it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice. It's fair to say you're a child of the 70s, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, quite more than 80s, I think.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, you, I think you and I were born in the 70s, but we experienced most of our life of the 80s because, as soon as you start to smash hits.
Speaker 1:I had an older sister, so that's definitely something that I remembered. But so you, you, let's fast forward a little bit from those early memories to then. You, you leave home and you have your. You have your own independent money. How are you managing your money when it's just you right? What, what? What were the observations you saw and some of the habits that you picked up and did you? Did you manage your money astutely when you left, or did you? Did you? Did you blow it?
Speaker 4:So basically I went to finished high school and then went to college in Galway and anyone who's from Ireland knows that Galway is great like uni town and everything like that for nightlife. So first couple of weeks I spent everything and I remember ringing my mom and going I have no money and she's like oh, what do you do?
Speaker 1:about it.
Speaker 4:And in fairness, she did like send me money, but it's like we're not going to be doing this every week. So pretty soon I started to realize, well, okay, I need to manage my money. I think it was probably the first time of, okay, I have to feed myself and you know, if I don't buy food then there's no food there, kind of thing. So yeah, after that then I got a job. I had a regular job then sort of for the three years that I went to college and I got a grant as well, so that sort of paid my rent and then the rest I had to live on pretty much. So after that I was able to I mean, I wasn't basically live week to week, you know, as long as I had enough to feed myself, pay rent and go one night out, then it was fine.
Speaker 2:And you mentioned that habit that you were building there, where the money comes in, you get all the food booked, you get the petrol in the car if you needed a car, so it's that sort of car at their point. So just so food in the fridge and obviously what's left over is the play money, that sort of kind of didn't work.
Speaker 4:I remember a few times being at an ATM on a night out and waiting for midnight and getting the cash out of the ATM because we're still out and you know are going to the college, like because you know you didn't have the tap then. So you go to the college bank and go, oh, I just want to check my balance and you'd have like five pounds in it. And you go, oh, can I just take that out? And you just be like, well, you just, you know, and your last few few pounds and yeah, you just go and you were just living the life. Like you know I had a great time, like loved it. And then I went to, had a summer in London as well, where that was another live week to week kind of thing and great time. And I always say, if I never went to London, I would have never ended up in Australia, because I met a lot, a lot of Aussies over there and that's how I ended up over here initially.
Speaker 2:Slight of the lost moment. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:So yeah, didn't really save anything like was just having a good time and enjoying it. I'm kind of glad I did that, because then as I got older I didn't you know I got over that face of my life.
Speaker 1:So, so okay. So at what point did you go from paycheck to paycheck to actually putting more away for a rainy day, and was there? Was it just as simple as oh, I'm sick of running out of money? Or was there? Was there an epiphany moment where you're thinking, yeah, I really want to go on top of this money?
Speaker 4:Well, I probably, like I went to spend three years in college and then, like I say, I just wanted to go, I was just sick of studying, sick of you know, I just needed some time out, so moved home for six months, saved money to go to come to Australia like the one year visa came over here, did, met my husband. Then, early on, Rod and I yeah again, was, you know, just enjoying it or whatever. But then I was doing telemarketing and I was like, oh, this is like no offense to anyone who does telemarketing, but you need to have a thick skin for it, Like it's really, you know, hard it's projection heavy.
Speaker 4:It's so hard and I was like I need to get a decent job. So I went back then. That was always my intention. I went back then and started my to become a training to become a charged accountant in Ireland. So basically then when you do that, you have to sign a contract for four years. So I was like right now it's time to get serious and knuckle down, and what sort of age are we talking there?
Speaker 4:I was probably 20, 22, 23, at that stage. Yeah, so came back from Australia and then Rod had no intention of coming over but I was gone probably a couple of weeks and he went I've just applied for my Irish visa so he moved over and then, like, obviously, with him moving over here, we, you know, moved in together straight away and then that's sort of when we started going okay, you know, this is what we want to do. The plan was always I trained for four years, become a charged accountant, then we have our wedding and then we go back to Australia. That was sort of the plan. So kind of. From then we just went right, we need to save. I was on like less than minimum wage when I started my contract as a charged accountant because they pay you so badly over like in Ireland, like really rubbish, but you get good study leave, so yeah, so we did that. He worked the whole time. We bought a house in Ireland with a view to potentially keeping it and thankfully in hindsight, we sold it.
Speaker 4:Because we bought it for 150,000 Euro. It was a townhouse. We sold it for 178,000 and they're now worth 100,000.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:Because literally this was 2005. End of 2005, we moved to Australia and we got out basically before the GFC and before it all went to custard.
Speaker 2:Yes, but it's interesting also with what's happened over there, because unfortunately you've got a. We talk about our rental crisis here in Australia and I mean it's absolutely chronic. It's an absolute nightmare over there. I often reference Ireland as the case study of what not to do, because they've introduced rental freezes and basically now there's no accommodation for renters.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so as well. What they've done is they've given people who will rent their houses to refugees that's paid by the government. They don't have to pay tax up to a certain point on some of that money. So now a lot of people are going oh well, this is guaranteed money, you know, and we don't have to pay tax on it. But then what happens to all the poor people who the normal Irish people who have to pay like find a place to rent?
Speaker 2:It's a complete mess. I don't know how they let it get to what it's you know, we're on a similar trajectory if we keep thinking that, you know, the best way to solve problems is to bring you know regulation, and what we need to do is let the market do its thing, and then it'll ultimately let people be able to invest knowing that the governments aren't going to cut them off the knees.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So I think, like everything that's happened in Ireland, like obviously it kind of we got out when we did because I remember like seeing we got offered a similar amount when we were about to move and we're like no, no, no, we want more. And then at the end we ended up selling for what we got initially, got offered like six months later and went, okay, we need to get out of here, like and just move on, and thankfully so. Then at least then we walked away with something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you seemed the way you describe that story seemed really resigned or determined that you were coming back to Australia. Was it like that, or did you have a little bit of conflict around whether or not you wanted to say no, no, that was it.
Speaker 4:I mean, it was a very different plan, although when we did land back here, even my husband, we were both kind of sitting here going what have we done? Like it was like literally starting again, you know from scratch between, because we literally came over here with six boxes of things and a few suitcases and that was it, because it just wasn't worth our while just carting everything over. This is obviously before we had kids. So, yeah, it took a while. It took a while to settle in, like it's great having all these plans and then the materialized and you go, oh my God, did I?
Speaker 3:you know so.
Speaker 2:I mean on retrospect, though I know we're not going to unpack the whole story in one sense, but I'm looking at your financials in front of me and I'm nodding, that you know. Hopefully, the experiences has been as good as the financial situation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's just, I think, when you like, I came from Ireland. Obviously that was my whole life up to that point I knew so many people and had such a big family over there and everything like that, and it was such a it was like, even though I had my husband's family here and they were fantastic, but it's still a big, a big change when you do initially come over. But you know I've never, never regretted it, like it's always been a really good move.
Speaker 1:So Ema, you're an accountant, so obviously very good with numbers. So you come over to Australia, do you get a, do you get a role over here quite comfortably, or is that? What did that look like, getting your first video in Australia?
Speaker 4:I had my final exams in 2005,. Just before I came over, like that was the plan, was literally like this is what we're doing, and I had my an interview one of the big four like the night before we flew out and then, sort of within a week, I got the offer. So I knew I had that in place. Like, and that was one good thing about having a piece of paper is basically, you know, that's so transferable that you can just land a job straight away. So, yeah, I never had any issues getting work, thankfully.
Speaker 1:So you had six boxes, you had a qualification and a job lined up. So tell us, from that moment landing here to getting on the property ladder here in Australia, tell us.
Speaker 4:Obviously we had to rent for a while. I mean, one good thing about leaving Ireland and knowing that we were leaving was that we didn't leave with any debt, like we had no debt. Like in Ireland when things were booming, like you know, people were just, it was just spend, spend, spend. We didn't do that because we had to save for a wedding and we knew we were coming over here. So we just left there. We didn't have a lot, like we had some money from the house and when it went after it sold. But so we rented for a little while and then we bought a unit in Sutherland, in New South Wales, and that was just sort of the first step, just to get on the property ladder. And then we had our son, joshua, who's now 15. And he once he was one. Then we moved to Helensburg, which is just north of Wollongong, new South Wales, and soon after that so we sold the unit to buy the house in Helensburg, which we're still in.
Speaker 2:And how much planning went into that sort of sequential order at that time, like when you were sort of thinking, right, we've got some money, let's get a property. You know, rent money is dead money and then to time, the idea of then starting a family is that sort of you know that was all like.
Speaker 4:I'm a very much a planner, like to the point that even when I'm at an eternity leave, I'm like right, we've got X, this is what we need to cover the mortgage, and then I go back to work like, and that's it. That was always like. I've always been like that. I've always sort of run the numbers and you know, see what we have, and things like that.
Speaker 2:So you're a spreadsheet queen.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all good with your pivot tables and all of the sort of things.
Speaker 4:No, not so much, not so much. I'm just more, just put it in front of me and just yeah.
Speaker 2:Now I noticed that in the bio that we've got from you, you are using the more platform and you're saying for MoneySmart and loving it. So can you give us a little progress update in terms of you know what you are using more for and how that sort of money management is working for you?
Speaker 4:The more it's sort of more the asset side of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But the money platform like we put, like I said, you know, rod will get paid weekly, I will get paid monthly, so X amount of money will go into one account and that's our spending day to day. And you know, the food shopping, the petrol, the pocket money, the. You know to the point that one day my daughter said to me are we poor? Like do we not have any money? I said there's like $14 in there. And she's like, do we not really have any money? I'm like that's what we have until you know the next day.
Speaker 4:So trying to kind of get them to think, because they know that Wednesday is the day that they get their pocket money and stuff like that. So and like then everything else goes into an offset account. So I do have a couple of offset accounts. One would be the rental account, would be one offset account, because I like to keep all of that separate, because it's just so much easier. And then the because, like, I literally don't think of that as our money. I think of that as just, you know, an external thing. And then we just we do have a holiday fund and then a bills one and then just the offset account, which, again, I don't consider our money Sort of there to you know, pay off everything else kind of thing.
Speaker 2:No, and I'm hoping that all of those offset accounts are pointing towards your principal place of residence. I'm not good, so I know there's a tick, a big tick in there in terms of how you're operating those types things. So that's really helpful in the sense that you know. So, ultimately your the way in which you've set up your jars or your buckets is you've got a living and lost old bucket and that's that's also how you're paying your bills out of that. But you also in terms of your segregating out from your primary offset into two other supplementary offset accounts, because I'm looking at your, your bank, and we know that that particular bank has multiple offsets, up to 10 in terms, and so that just allows you to then separate that and so what? There's no temptation in terms of having it all in one primary.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like we used to have a credit. You know credit card as well.
Speaker 4:Like I've never sort of been one for huge like credit card debts I never I think when I came back from Australia, initially I did have credit card debt and I was like, no, this is horrible. But yeah, so I, we used to have credit card and then we'd like, oh, we'll just spend it and we'll, you know, pay it back. And whereas now we're like, just let's just spend our money. And we spend our money and enjoy it, and then, but it's our money, we're kind of a less reluctant to spend it or something, whereas credit cards I feel like sometimes well, you know personally, you're just like it's not really our money.
Speaker 2:So are you. Are you 12 month planning in some of your work around the spend Like cause? Ultimately, the reason why a credit card can work is because people are saying, well, I've mapped out the next 12 months of spending and that allows us to. So it doesn't matter which whether it's you're tapping it on the credit card or using your primary account, you just obviously get the interest free period which saves money and allows it. Do you do that sort of annual planning around indicative spending?
Speaker 4:Yeah, Like we know pretty much like when things are, you know, are due, unfortunately, like from sort of February to May is our really horrible months. You know, we just worked out that way and yeah, so we know you know, my husband's pretty good at tracking that, Like he looks after the cars and all of that kind of stuff and house insurance and those kind of things and yeah, we know pretty much when things are coming up.
Speaker 1:So very good. So you might. So you sell this first property in the Sutherland to buy Helensburg. That's still your principal place of residence now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was going to be a start, like I was planning on a bigger house and then I went you know I don't, I don't want it Like. I like I love where we live, I love the street, I love, you know the house is big enough. You know someone still has to clean it. So I'm like, no, just they really are, and you know it's for better house. So it's not, you know, it's not me or anything.
Speaker 1:So yeah, well, I think there's some gold in that. So talk us through that. So you've gone through Yale one upgrade and then you turned on that. So can you give us an extra layer on why you did you turn? Clearly, you, it was a point where you realized it's okay, but how did you arrive at that? I?
Speaker 4:don't know. I think just, I don't know. You get older and you just go oh I just why do I want more debt? Like I just didn't feel like we needed it. You know, all our friends are close by, all our kids friends are close by and I think, no matter where you move, unless you like knock down and rebuild, which we were never going to do, you're not, you know, you're going to miss out on that. And I just thought you know what I have, everything I want. And you know we've done. We've done like renovations, like we put in a new kitchen, bathroom, did all that. But yeah, like, do we really need another bigger house, like for what you know? Yeah, I don't know, I don't know when I came to that decision, but I just went yeah, Our mortgage is not, like what we have is enough. And then when we started buying properties, we were like, well, we're definitely not going to upgrade now, Like the greatest financial asset you can have is not needing to impress anyone, so it sounds like you landed that plane.
Speaker 4:I think I'm the age right, Don't care yeah.
Speaker 1:And in terms of the Irish community, I've got good friends over in Perth and they they are tight. They've got a big network of and they're close and they're nearby and they are tight. Is that. Is that the same for you?
Speaker 4:Yes, I have, like some Irish friends that I've known for many, many years, like I mean, still actually I've met a few of them, like this weekend, like for a Christmas lunch kind of thing, and yeah, there's a lot of that. And like I mean, initially, when you come over here, you literally cling to any Irish person you can meet.
Speaker 4:you meet and then you kind of think, oh, would I be friends with them at home? And sort of, over time you figure out who you're actually going to be friends with, like. So some of them I've been friends with for a very long time. It's interesting like seeing our kids grow up and stuff like that. And even my kids will say to me were you around Irish people today? Because you know my accent gets thicker and stuff. Yeah, it's nice, but I mean I probably them. You know I have some really good friends in Helensburg and they're all Aussies as well. So, yeah, good, good mixture.
Speaker 1:So what happens after Helensburg? You make another purchase. What is it and when?
Speaker 4:So we were eventually, like you know, kids went to school, I started going back to work. Like I only took six months maternity with each of them, so I was only three days, and then I started working more and we just thought, oh, we just want to do something like and you know, you hear all these stories about people buying property and I, to be honest, I was sort of so scared off by everything that happened in Ireland. I was like, oh no, don't really want to go into this. But then we started looking into it and we bought our first property, which was off the plan. So, yeah, before I started listening to you guys. So we bought through our mortgage broker. We, yeah, and literally like this was the first time I started listening to you guys I heard all of these what not to do and I was literally like this oh, this is what we've done.
Speaker 4:And it was, like you know, because, so we signed the contract in 2017. It wasn't built till September 2019. And, of course, evaluation came back a lot less and what you know we initially bought for and your stock. You can't do anything like. And you know, I remember this list is saying to us doesn't matter whether you die. Whatever you signed the contract, you know you have to go through with it. So, anyways, we did that. We got a renter in straight away. You know, guaranteed rent, all of that plava.
Speaker 1:And this is getting textbook all along.
Speaker 4:It was so bad, like it was so textbook and so medium density.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh, it was 26 units, so it's not it wasn't. That was one thing. I was kind of going, okay, it's not that bad.
Speaker 2:Well, that's still medium density. It's not high density. I know.
Speaker 4:But anyways, we went through with it. We still have it and you know the yield is good. It's actually grown in price, you know not much, but it's still grown. But yeah, after that it just there were so many things that just I felt really off about it. I was just, you know, we met the guy that we went up to Brisbane to see it when it was finished and you know the guy was like you know, this value, you know, was ridiculous that the bank has come back with all of this kind of stuff. And the broker said, oh, don't worry about it, we'll just take, you know, more from your house in Helensburg, you know, textbook. I was like okay, so yeah, like, in the end, what do you like? What do you do in that situation? You have to go through with it.
Speaker 2:You do? Yeah, well, you could write off your deposit, yeah. And they could still potentially come back and see you for yeah, for a while but any difference, Emma, we're glossing over this with a smirk on our face, right?
Speaker 1:But let's just go back to it for the this is for the benefit of the listeners, right? What was the message? What was the conversation? What was the mortgage broker saying to you? What was giving you confidence to go ahead? Because it's obvious now that you've listened to podcasts? But back then you would have been full of optimism, you would have been thinking about the future, you would have been hoping that it grew. So what was what were the conversations and the messages that you were hearing at the time?
Speaker 4:Oh, like the broker was saying, look, don't worry about it, the banks are really, you know, strict at the moment. You know they're, you know they're being just really overly cautious and all of that, and yeah, just constantly assuring us, and the guy that was selling it was, you know, the. He was, you know, emailing us and going. You know this property is great and you know I don't know what the banks are talking about. You know just, yeah, basically all the things you guys have said, and so it's just one of those.
Speaker 4:I feel ill about this. But you know, I think, look, it hasn't been I've heard of people having worse disasters like it hasn't gone down in value. We're still, you know, getting good rent from it and things like that. And you know whether we eventually sell it. I actually spoke to Bede in your office recently about potentially selling it and buying something else and he did say he goes, look, you're going to be out of pocket like 50 or 60 grand, just to get back to start again. Like, do you want to do that? You know, and it's, you know it's a lot of money just to leave on the table. So for now we're just going to stick with it.
Speaker 2:Lots of version kicking in.
Speaker 4:There's so much to talk about here, but the other issue is, even if we sold, we may not get the way. You know, lending is now, we may not get back in. So that was the other concern, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's fair enough concern. But to Bryce's point earlier they were saying like before we got the poor valuation before it took two years to build and obviously the mortgage broker must have been working in cohorts with the property spruker, so you know whether they got a commission or a kickback.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they did.
Speaker 2:Oh, they did.
Speaker 4:So they did they disclose that. Yeah, they did yeah.
Speaker 2:So well, that's at least something for you in terms of. So that, so the broker who's told you to go and buy an investment property, he's getting a kickback on that. Obviously, they're selling agent. The spruker is also getting a huge commission. In terms of what's being paid there. How did they pitch it to you Like, was it the classic the silk cost share list and $25 a week to hold? You know, did you get the classic sort of 10 year projections and also the tax depreciation? So was it a real big tax sell or and low cost to hold, or was it a Not so?
Speaker 4:much. To be honest, I was actually surprised when I got the depreciation report and went oh wow, this is huge, like yeah. But then I was like what was interesting, though, as well. I remember the day we settled and I remember getting like we got a bottle of champagne, we got all these knick-knacky things and I was like, well, this is cool. And then the second property we bought, it was like we got nothing. But then I realized, oh well, we actually paid for that bottle of champagne.
Speaker 2:Oh, and the knick-knacks. Yeah, exactly, and everything that goes with it. Yeah, yeah, and that's what.
Speaker 4:That's what they do and you know. Lesson learned you know, and I just get to anyone who will listen do not buy off the plan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ema, I'm not proud of this, but I used to have those conversations with clients around to expect the valuation to be low. I can put my hand on my heart. I was a bit of an enthusiastic amateur at the time where I just did think that the value was we're out to get us. And I thought that there was, you know, because there was a two-tier marketing spiel that was happening in Queensland at the time. This is sort of early 2000s and I'm just thinking well, these values are ignorant and they don't know what they're doing, because they don't know me. I'm not trying to rip anyone off and what they're doing is they were a blanket approach and in hindsight I wasn't getting clients into the best properties, you know, but these were properties at $250,000 and $270,000. So I can put my head on the pillow very comfortably at night, knowing that they're okay. But that is something that I'm very familiar with and I'm not proud to say that I'm very familiar with front footing valuation issues. It comes from that.
Speaker 4:So but you go.
Speaker 1:you go borderless on this property, so you go across the border.
Speaker 4:Well, in fairness, we knew in New South Wales we weren't going to get anything. We knew there was nothing. So I was very, I was weary in some ways of going to Queensland because I was like I don't want one of those high rises, like initially we had gone to somebody else and they were offering. So you borrow as much equity as you can, you use X amount for the deposit and then you use remaining equity to make the repayments and then you pay off your loan quicker, your home loan quicker, but then I was like, but you're left with all this debt.
Speaker 4:on the other side it's like, yeah, you can pay off your home loan, but like what happens to the other side of it?
Speaker 2:And you're boring on a tax scheme.
Speaker 4:That's basically saying yeah, you know, oh no, they had said like the interest on the interest isn't deductible, which it isn't. But, like I, just the figures just didn't make sense.
Speaker 2:I was like this is going to blow out completely like oh, they're still out there to this day, and I you know, pay off your home loan in seven years. I can show you how to do it. This is the strategy.
Speaker 4:But you don't have you end up with another mountain of debt.
Speaker 2:The other side, yeah it just shifts the debt, which, true, I mean in terms of now. Some people might claim that the interest on interest is tax deductible if there's been some attempt to make some repayments on it. So you know, like that's. But you know it's a self-declaring system, right? So the ATO then comes back and says show me how you've been doing this. And it's like what was your primary reason for doing this? Was it, was it, you know, tax deduction, or was it to actually, you know, invest? So all of those sort of dominant purpose tests and all that? It's very, very dangerous, very gray, and so we again should never invest in property for a tax outcome. You should invest in property for the fundamentals. So you've had this difficult experience. Is this then, when you find the pod? So you know, sort of in the or are you still? Are you still?
Speaker 4:Soon after we've, I found it and I was just like you know, again going through it and going on and on. God, we stuffed up there. But then we were like, okay, we want to do something. And I think then that's when I came on to your podcast and went, okay, this is a buyer's agent to touch to it. And we were kind of going, oh, we do this. Is this going to be another one of those you know scam type things and whatever? Oh, but anyways, we went through with it and it was during COVID, actually it was, I think we settled around March 21, bought it site on scene because it was COVID, couldn't do anything. It was in Victoria and purchase that and, to be honest, it was just so easy. It was just like simple. And I think it's. It's much easier buying investment property as well, because you've no emotional attachment to it, purely financial reasons that you're doing it.
Speaker 2:And how's that one gone for you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, good, good and yeah, quite happy with that. That one was predominantly like more focused on growth rather than the rental. But yeah, we've had, you know, tenants in it from day one and no, no major issues, no, no real issues. To be honest, touch wood, so yeah, Now, amy, you're you're a planner.
Speaker 2:I love that about you. You want to try and you know get, try and make the least amount of mistakes that you can. But obviously a gain enthusiasm versus knowledge led you down a certain garden path. You've been able to return back. Now obviously we know that you've used our planning services and you've also used that sort of buy-as-aid and service, so it's been a good outcome. But so here's my question for you, as someone who did your own models and numbers prior, when, when Rachel took you through the sim and showed you all the moving parts and, you know, was sort of giving you a bit, a bit more of a view of that, what was your impressions for for an accountant who's looking at the sort of modeling and the analysis around the cash flows?
Speaker 4:Yeah, like it was. To be honest, I probably looked at it more at the end thing and looked at the values and went. That seems ridiculous.
Speaker 4:Even for someone like me who's you know, I know how these things work, but it just seemed like, no, there's no way we can ever be worth that on paper, like it just seems really bizarre, but no, it was really good to work through. Like you know what your plans are and you know where, where the money is going to go, and you know all of that and even just projections with cash flow and and those kind of things, even though, like I often said, oh, I'd love to get my hands on that and just go through it.
Speaker 4:I was on it and go and sort out all the different scenarios. But no, it was really really interesting to go through it and just sort of keep in mind where we were and you know what we needed to do and stuff like that. Just even like, because sometimes you know you go through it and you get paid and you know you pay your bills and go on holidays and do whatever. But it's just to have a plan Because even though, like I can technically, but like I think people think, as an accountant, so you can do everything. You can do tax returns, you can do Financial planning, you can do everything on the stock market, you can do, like real estate, everything, well, you can't, you know. So sometimes it's good to have some third party come in and just look at it. I give you their feedback and go and, like she did, you know certain things of what we could and couldn't do when, what was really interesting to look at that. And you know, go, look at different scenarios.
Speaker 2:Was it a case of proceeding? Because it was a bit of well, we've made the mistake the first time and these guys claim that they can fix, fix bad property advice, you know in terms of okay, well, we've got to make the next post a winner. So you know why, leave it to chance.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it was yeah, we definitely needed some some. We knew we wanted to progress. Like we weren't sort of burned by that first Experience, like we were like, okay, it's not the end of the world, we were still gonna make money on this property, we're still gonna have a good Rental yield, but we just want to go forward. We want to get more information, you know, and know exactly what we're doing. We definitely went in with their eyes a lot more open second time around. Yeah, I think that's no different to a lot of other people as well.
Speaker 1:Amy, you just said you're an account and everyone can make the assumption that you can do everything, but you can't. I think there's a really good learning point here for our listeners who are in accounts. Can you, can you fill that out a bit more? Why can't you do everything? What's the what's the what's the lesson there for people who think, oh well, I just got an account, nothing of everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, because you have to think of it from, like, every point of view. Like even you know, working as an accountant, like you know, like I deal a lot with self-managed super funds, but I can't give advice and self-managed super funds, I can't tell someone, oh, go set up a self-managed super fund, because they have to go to a financial planner for that and get a statement of advice and and do all of that and and like. Sometimes the financial planner will come back with something and go, oh, we haven't thought of that or we'll say something to them, you know. So I think it's very difficult to have an expertise in all of that stuff. Like you know, you're probably better off just focusing on a couple of things, being really good at that, and then going to other professionals for other things.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like you got two volumes of tax act which are pretty thick and you've got to get across that, and then there's with each, with each subsection of the act, there's nuances within that. So it's like anything. If you don't, if you don't take the time to specialise in that particular lane or that particular part of the act, well then it just kind of makes sense. So which is why you'd want to be with an accountant who specialises for you you specialise in SMSF, so if you're SMSF, you want to go and talk to you, and it kind of makes sense. But so so you go again. You go borderless. You go first of all, you ran across to Queensland, then the next one, you go to Victoria, and that's been a good experience for you. So what do you do next?
Speaker 4:and then so we waited a couple of years and not even a couple of years, it wasn't even two, was probably about two full years. And then we went again and yeah, like literally I think we contacted Rachel, initially like January, and we settled on the 1st of May. Like so it was very, very quick and, again, no emotion involved. Just like this is what we want to do, this is you know where we are. And because we had the plan done as well, it was very easy to go right, this is where you're at and this is what you, this is the property you need. So the plan obviously was passed to the buyers agent. They're like this is what we need and then go from there. So, yeah, very easy. Like there's no way I would have the time or you know the knowledge again To go through like what's a good property, what's not? Like the third property was in WA. Like we're not gonna fly over to WA and inspect property. Not a hope.
Speaker 2:Well, that's honest not a hope.
Speaker 4:It's just not going to happen, like we don't have the time and the expense even involved in that, like that's what I think about. A lot, no, and you know what you pay a buyer's agent. They do all of that and it's it's all. And then you have a sort of somebody then to Contact you and then you know, put you in touch with a, and we like an agent to manage it, and all of that kind of stuff. Like where do you go doing that on your own?
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 4:So tell us about Rod?
Speaker 1:Tell us about Rod, so you know you. It seems like you're very resolved and very Focused on the property journey, like you're just recalling this stuff quickly. What about Rod? Is he equally as interested?
Speaker 4:He is definitely interested. He was the one who was like, oh, we need to do something, whatever. You know, I've heard all these stories and whatever, but and he, he allows me to To do these things. He'll say to me look, I trust you. But at the back of it, he's very much on the journey as well, because you know both of us from probably day one.
Speaker 4:I would say, like we put everything together and no matter who was earning what, we always had the same money, like it was always ours. We always go on Okay, this is the goal, this is what we need to do, and like neither of us like both of us, I think will be quite respectful in terms of like spending money and that like none of us Would go crazy without you know, telling the other person or this is what we do, and yeah. So I think he's just always just being Okay, this is like focused on on the end game as well. Like you know, we have a plan of mind as to what we want to do in retirement and things like that, and you know that's what we. You know we're always both on the same page.
Speaker 4:He probably like Like he laughs at me sometimes when he sees a spreadsheet, he goes oh, you love all this stuff, don't you? And I'm like no, I said like I feel like I have to do it because you know, but I am the one that takes charge of it and probably would let him do it either. That's just the way I am. But and he's very much in the background, you know, working away, very aware of you know what's going in, what's coming in, what's going out, and yeah, we're just sort of trying to work towards a common goal.
Speaker 2:So, amy, you sound really quite relaxed and very comfortable, where everything sits right. It doesn't feel like you're very fazed. It's not, I mean, for some people having a look at, you know, multi-million dollar property portfolio. Yes, you know a large amount of debt associated with that, but it does feel like to me a very calm about Sort of what this story looks like. What's giving you that sense of Calm, that sense of peace of mind In the fact that, yeah, you know there's there's a portfolio for properties and also you know a fair bit of debt attached to that.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, I think, sort of like I kind of separate, like, our main property from the investments and for us, like that's where, you know, the focus is to sort of pay that off as quick as possible. Obviously during COVID that was, you know, thankfully we've both kept our jobs, so that was quite easy to do to smash that. But obviously since interest rates have risen, you know, tides have turned on that a bit. But and I don't know, I think I like I look at it from a long point of view, like I always thought, like when we buy property and that's probably why we've held on to the one in Queensland is because I Don't think it's like if it was performing really badly I'd be like okay, we need to just cut ties and be done with it. But I always think like let's look at this for the long term, like we're going, like I always listen to you and say you know how you say like the third decade decade is you know when you make it. And that's kind of what I focus on and think look at the end of the day, if it all went Paraship, I can just sell everything, like not that I want to do that, but you know we've got life insurance, we've got like, I'm very much like, let's look at what's the worst case scenario that could happen here God forbid, if one of us died or something, how would we even manage this? So, and even with the plans that we did, it was more like the, the interest rates that were Putting that we're like, you know, six and a half percent or whatever, and yeah, we're probably almost there now, but I feel well, we had a good run up to now. So I don't know, I'm just always look at the bigger picture, like I've seen in, you know, workwise.
Speaker 4:I've seen people sell properties after a couple of years and go, oh why did you do that? And then you'll see the same. You know, you think if you look back and see something they did and you know, you'll know that that property increased like dramatically over you know, the last 10 years or whatever. And but yeah, that's you know. And I remember someone saying to me I don't know if was your guys podcast or someone, something I was listening to, and it said why would you sell a property if you just had, you know, if you ended up having to pay 10 grand for Repairs or something like that and then just get rid of it, like I've seen people do that and so I've always tried to.
Speaker 4:You know, we've always had a buffer and you know, just in case things happen like I think you know we've always needed that and yeah, and that's you just. It's just the flow, like we've always as well managed, and I think with my salary it's basically goes on mortgages, and it's always been like that. So either we're paying extra off or we're, you know, putting it towards rental properties. So that's never really been our money. That's kind of the way we've locked out it and then just live off it.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, I'd expect you to be across your numbers, but I think because you may have some scars from the, from the experience that is back home in Ireland, so I wonder if some of those pop their head up for you from time to time.
Speaker 1:But the thing that should give you confidence and the thing that should give everyone listening to this confidence who has exposure to debt and holding property for the long term is a couple of things you said. Head defense in play to your time horizon is the biggest determinant of your success, because you're already starting to think of a decades game, which is great, but the, hopefully, the thing that gives everyone confidence is our housing policy and our immigration policy are out of alignment, in that there there is not enough houses for folks. So clearly we're going through a tightening or a squeeze in a lot of households across the country, but the reality hasn't changed that more people want to come here. With all of the geopolitical stuff that's going on around the world, we are more attractive than ever for people to want to come here. So that that does that. Does that fill you with confidence about keeping your eyes fixed on the horizon?
Speaker 4:Yes, that's definitely in the back of my mind. Like you know, like I'm kind of torn in some ways. Like you see people and there's, you know, the whole rental crisis and how expensive rent is, but at the same time you're kind of going, ok, well, I've got three investment properties. So like I am torn about that sometimes because you feel guilty and go, oh, you know, I, you know, when you see people go on all greedy landlords and all of that kind of stuff, I don't view us as that. Like at the end of the day, all we're trying to do is make sure that we have a decent super, you know, when we do retire and not be dependent on the government.
Speaker 2:Yes, self funding is the way we want to be, and I think that's a credit to you. Just quickly, is there any more to come, or is that it? We've finished the accumulation phase? Have we got any more?
Speaker 4:I heard the plan, that's all the raise, but I'm sort of like I think I'm always like I've recently just started to look into self managed super fund and potentially buying one there, but purely because I know the ins and outs of it, like I would not do that, like I've seen people do it and I've seen it done really well and I've seen it done badly. So it's you know, and there's a lot of work involved too.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of work involved pardon the pun In terms of the. That's the learning journey that we want to take our community on. We are very anti going straight into setting up a self managed super fund to buy a property, but, to your point, you've got three investments plus your principal home, You've got a good sense of how the rhythm works, you know how to deal with the managers, you know how to deal with the tenants, so and your financial literacy is high, your understanding is high. So it does make sense that you would, you know, scratch that itch in terms of investigate that further. So, Ema, I think that's something that I would definitely be saying to you, that it would, you know, certainly add value.
Speaker 2:I'm speaking of someone with a couple of properties inside the self managed super fund as well, but I bought different types of properties, as I've mentioned, on the pod around what the intention of what those properties are meant to do. My final question to you, because I could talk to you all day and get right into the nitty gritty of what's going on but would you have done this if you didn't get professional help? Like is that? Is that been a you know? Would you have been able to do a DIY investor, or is the professional help allowed you to? You know, do what you needed to do.
Speaker 4:I probably would have done it at some point, but I don't know if I'd have done it well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:I think you know, and I don't think it would have been as easy to do if I hadn't had just, I think, just the guidance, just go have someone say, right, this is what you know the plan is. Because I think as well, we hear of all these people who have like 10, 12, you know 20 properties and stuff like that and go, okay, that's what I need to be able to do this. And then when we had three, we were like, really, that's all we need. Like it didn't, it didn't seem enough in some ways. No, but like, in some ways as well, it's kind of a bit addictive, because I'm kind of, as soon as we settled on, like in WA, I was like, can we go again? And not in a greedy way, but just like, oh, this is you know.
Speaker 2:It's achievable, it's manageable, it's passive. Yeah, yeah, you are in the accommodation business. That's the reality. And you know, I mean everyone sort of talks about McDonald's being in the burger industry. They're not in the burger industry, they're in the land business. You know, like they're in the real estate industry and that's sort of what we're in, like, you know, especially if you're buying houses, you're in the accommodation business. There's no doubt about it. But certainly the land value is is the thing. That's the insurance policy when it comes to anything going wrong.
Speaker 4:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I think there's so much to reinforce here, like in terms of you. It's not until you actually get your own principal place of residence and three investment properties where you get that epiphany. At the end you go, oh, is that what I need? I'd be. I'd probably be keen to buy another one, because for a lot of people who are listening to this, who only have their home and no investment properties or don't have any real estate, the thought of getting to four properties seems overwhelming and daunting and they could never see their mind get there. But the thing is, you walk a mile, you see a mile, you get there, you've walked that extra mile and then you get a different perspective and you get a different view and I think you are able to demonstrate that.
Speaker 1:But I think another one of the lessons that I'm loving from this story to EMA is you. You are the. You are the model of what we've talked about for 400 plus episodes, where it's buy your home, pay it off as quickly as you can and get two or three investment properties and combine it with your super and then that's, that's going to get you a very, very comfortable retirement. And you're and you're in that lane now. You're in your, your forties. You've got, you've got two children, you've got careers and in the same time that you're paying off your home, you've decided to accumulate other assets as well. And I'm sure, with you being in SMSF specialized, you probably optimized your super as well.
Speaker 1:But it's, it's a really awesome tale to tell folks that that's it, cues in the rack three. Then. So you remember, you got to get into real estate and wait. Well, you're now in real estate and you're just waiting. It's, it's, it's over time. And then, if you want to play with some levers, where you go? I actually want more income in retirement, or I'm actually prepared to work a little bit longer, or I'm actually prepared to pull back on my expenses. So some of those levers then go well, okay. Well, if I do put a fourth into the portfolio, I have other choices which might mean that I retire on a larger amount.
Speaker 4:So you just take this one I need access to your, your program, oh yeah. Well, you know you wouldn't be the first to ask us.
Speaker 2:Well, wait and see what's you know we'll be released on the platform the more platform overcome. Like I'm looking at your passive income speed and I'm seeing a really healthy rental income speed story picking up and I'm seeing you chasing down your working income speed. So that's pretty cool. Like, ultimately, the moment that you chase that down and you retire that debt out, then all of a sudden you've got the greatest, most valuable commodity in the world and that is time you know to be able to do that.
Speaker 4:So I think that's what I'm trying to say to my kids, like is you know, trying to get it into their head about you know? Because even I said to my son, oh, I'm going to be on a podcast, and he goes, oh, is there something to do? A property? Like I was sort of half, like he was nearly aware of these things. But obviously he listens to me to some point and well, but he's now thinking, yeah, this is what I want to do early and I said, do you have one thing that I don't? I said, and that's time. I said you can buy something. I said, and you know, borrow over 30 years and it won't even phase you. By the time you're my age, you'll be able to really choose what you want to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And here's the message to Joshua as you listen back to this, your mum is a sharp, sharp cat. You should be asking lots and lots of questions about how this works, and I know I know you can't be a profit in your own village, emma, but if, if your kids are, but you know Joshua can lean into that and ask you a few more questions, I think that's going to be serving him very, very well. Hey, my final question for you is I put a call out in the lead up to summer series for people to come on. Why did you come on? Why did you push through that little feeling in your stomach that says, oh, maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't. And what's the? What's the big key takeaway that you hope that people get from hearing your story?
Speaker 4:I think I've wanted to do it for a while but I sort of was always bit, you know, or I didn't think of my story, was you know who'd want to listen to it? And and especially as well, I think people sometimes can be prejudiced against, like being an accountant to go, oh well, you have all the knowledge anyway. Like I didn't, like it was a lot of what I've actually learned from, like my property and things like that is more like podcasts and information that's out there. It's not necessarily my day to day job, but yeah, I just say, you know, anyone who wants to do it, just like it can be done. Like I was never, you know, given anything.
Speaker 4:Or you know, I mean we came to Australia, like I say, we had six boxes and, like you know, it's not like we didn't have family here or anything. It wasn't like we were homeless and destitute. But you know, everything we had we worked for and you know, and there's some like even now, there's some days that we just, you know, pass each other in the night because we're a shift worker, but you know, at the end of the day we just keep doing what we're doing and you know, hopefully at the end of it. We'll just reap the rewards of it.
Speaker 2:The power of compound and the power of basically executing proven set formulas is where, where, where you're going to see the fruits of your labor. Ema, I just wanted to to mention this. The theme of this summer series is about what money means to you. You've got comfort, stability, providing for family and growth. I think you've just demonstrated to us the growth you've done is also in the education and the learning, like what you just said there was. Just because I'm a accountant doesn't mean I know what I'm doing. It comes to property investing, I have learned and so you've been able to put that knowledge into action and I think that's really powerful. Again, you're going to provide for the family. You've got two beautiful kids. They're going to be able to, you know, leverage off the knowledge but also leverage off the the estate that's being built as part of that Stability.
Speaker 2:Well, it's pretty clear to us that you know, through the hard work that you're doing and again, if Rod's working night shift and those types of things are also you know there are some sacrifices that you're being being making.
Speaker 2:You talk about sometimes getting up at 5am in the morning. So there's work involved. Don't just think you can sit on the couch and this will magically happen for yourself, and I'm looking at the projections in terms of your models here and I can see comfort really quite quite comfortable Is the right position that you're going to be in. So thank you very much for sharing your story with the community. We absolutely love that you're able to do that. We love the fact that you're you know you're using the data inside more to get the insights that you're looking for, seeing the progress that you're making, and obviously you know some of the new features that we've recently introduced into the platform as well are going to sort of add value to how you manage your assets inside there as well. So that's a that's a cool story all around as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thank you, it's been been enjoyable. It's like it's yeah eventually. I was a bit nervous about this, but you know I'm glad it's been very relaxed.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you pushed through the nerves because you said you didn't have a story to tell. I think anyone who's just listened to this interview would would beg to differ. And it's it's it's in the it's in the weeds that most people get the nuggets of gold from our summer series, where someone you know, how you tackled debt, how you looked interstate, how you approached advisory work, how you decided on which properties, how you thought well, my life's busy, so therefore I need some help to get it done. There is, there are so many like tons of one percenters here in between all the big nuggets. So, on behalf of everyone here on the property couch, emma, thanks for joining us on the summer series.
Speaker 4:Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1:There you go, ben. Once again, another conversation that will never get sick and tired of having. What a wonderful story, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it's it's a classic case of she's had a great life Like it's been. It's been a lot of fun. She's enjoyed every step of the process. There's been lots of learning lessons in there as well. But you know, going to university having that sort of university lifestyle, but then taking that lifestyle pivot, you know, basically things are going to get more serious. So had the adventure, traveled, met the future husband and then we started to get serious about what our story looked like and then planning for kids. So putting all that in order.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's her chartered accountant sort of, you know, trying to minimize the mistakes.
Speaker 2:But what we did learn is mistakes were made. She was influenced by someone you know professional who was going to say well, you know, I know someone who can get you an off the plan apartment, well, I had all of the wrong settings in terms of the guaranteed rental, all the stuff we often talk about as well. But but I love the last comment was I wouldn't have done it without professional help. So you know the buyer's agents that she's used, the borderless investing that she's been able to do. So you know if I was, you know, looking after her and looking at the plan and advising her. In terms of what we've done, it's a good story because ultimately, after that first mistake, getting serious and then planning to become what you're planning to become, putting that professional advisor in play and then executing on that plan has resulted in a great outcome for their family and I just can't wait to see the magnification and the compounding power that's going to occur in terms of that portfolio over time, ema and her family are definitely going to be successful.
Speaker 1:She was a wonderful human for us to have a conversation with.
Speaker 3:Ben.
Speaker 1:What I liked is the contrast. Last week we remember when we were chatting with James, we talked about the enthusiastic amateur at the Colface. At this end we've got another part of the spectrum where you've got Ema, who's an accountant, where the perception is, well, the accountant knows everything and, to quote her, she goes. An accountant can't do everything, and I think that's a wonderful takeaway for everyone listening to this, because it's easier to say sure, the accountant should know everything. But it's kind of like saying you go to your general practitioner, your GP, and then saying, well, they're going to know everything about the ear, nose and throat, or they're going to know everything specialist about knee reconstructions, or they have a very good general understanding of medicine within the body, but when it comes to something that's very specific, they refer you off to the ear, nose and throat specialist, or they refer you off to someone who can help you with your knee reconstruction.
Speaker 1:Accountants are no different. They have a wonderful understanding of tax laws and all of the code that they need to be across, but the same thing, unless that accountant chooses to be a specialist in how to account for people who invest in crypto, how to account for people who invest in art, how to account for people who invest in property unless they choose to have that speciality. It's actually a work of fiction to assume that they understand everything, and I just think that that was a wonderful experience for our community to go huh, because you can hear from her she's smart, she's articulate, she knows her numbers, she loves spreadsheets, she's across the detail on her property portfolio and she said hey, accountants can't know everything. I just think that's a wonderful take home for everyone to think about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I've reflected on that conversation and I also read a book, the Charlie Munger.
Speaker 2:Obviously we lost the great man at the end of last year and so I'm revisiting some of his principles and so forth.
Speaker 2:And one of the big principles in there is temperament, and temperament is about emotion and in terms of how Ema was looking at things like, oh, that was a mistake, but she didn't get emotional about it, she didn't get angry about it, she said how do I fix it? And so that's what you, you know, in terms of listening to her talk and about how she approaches things, I just got this sense of calmness and the sense of we can do this, We've still got this and we can reset and go again. So I think it's a nice little message in there for those people who you know we've always talked about how money controls people and it controls their emotion. And hopefully you've got a good sense of, you know, that temperament, that calmness, and then realizing that I can't do all this myself, getting some professional advice to help with that confidence and that calmness and then being able to execute on that. So I think, I think it's a great story and, you know, all credit to Ema and her family for taking action in terms of what they've done.
Speaker 1:Well said, ben. It is a credit to Ema and her family. So thank you for coming on, ema. I think there's some wonderful messages that you can share with our community and I think they'll be really grateful for that. So, mate, we are. We are seven summer series down and one to go to make our eighth. But here's the count, ben We've had four of the ladies and three of the fellas, right. So the big question is are we going to have a fella or a lady next week? Well, good news for the ladies is we've got another wonderful guest. We've got another female. Thank you to all the ladies who have joined us on the summer series over the break, ben, because we did put out the challenge, we did put out the call and our female listeners did respond, and it's been wonderful to have the conversations with these incredible property investors, mate. But until so, again Ema, thanks very much for contributing, mate, and we love the summer series so far, with one to go.
Speaker 2:Well, that's right. And if you, if you're just catching up and picking up because you've had a great summer break, hey, binge time to binge these episodes. If you haven't already done that, go back to the start of the summer series. Build up with us, take the journey with us. And with Australia Day falling on a Friday, you've got a three day long weekend coming up next week, so it'll land on you know what three o'clock on Thursdays is normally when we drop them. So, if you're catching up, go back to the start of the summer series. Rip through them that way, because I think you'll get greater value out of them. But anyway, until next week. Bryce, knowledge is empowering, but only if you're See you next week, folks.
Speaker 1:Hey folks, bryce here again. I just want to catch you real quick before you go. If you're new to our community, I want to encourage you to listen to our very first 20 episodes, as the concepts we share in EPS One through 20 are foundational principles, pillars and frameworks that you need to know for you to get the best value from our content week to week on our show. My little tip is to listen to it at one and a half speed. Now, for those of you that are time poor and don't have the option to go back to the beginning, don't worry, because we've got you covered as well.
Speaker 1:We've created a binge guide that summarized these foundational episodes into one easy to digest booklet so that you can get up to speed super fast. So go to the show description on whatever device you're listening to now and simply click on the first 20 episodes link to download it straight away. Oh and, by the way, whilst you're there, you'll find a few extra goodies for you, including a link to download our lifestyle by design app more, the home of Wealth Speed and Wealth Clock, and our hugely popular MoneySmartz Money Management System, as well as how to get free copies of our bestselling books. Now, just a reminder that anything we cover on this podcast is not considered to be financial advice, and we certainly recommend that you seek out expert advice tailored to your unique circumstances, and everything we talk about is general in nature. Folks, I want to encourage you again to click on the show description, wherever you are listening, to access all the free goodies we have for you Until next week.