The Property Couch

605 | Has Rentvesting Really Stopped Working? – Chat with Glen James

• Ben Kingsley, Opti & The Couch Crew

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"I don't think it can get much worse for people trying to get their first property.”  

That’s Glen James, best-selling author, financial educator, host of the award-winning Money Money Money podcast and today’s special guest. 

From Glen's journey as a self-confessed "recovering spender" to why your first home doesn't need to be your forever home, this conversation explores the money habits, finance strategies and changing tax landscape shaping the next generation of property owners and investors. 

You'll learn: 

✔️ The outdated first-home advice you can ignore 
✔️ Whether rentvesting still stacks up in today's market 
✔️ The first conversation every aspiring buyer should have  
✔️ The role family guarantees and LMI can play 
✔️ How to choose the right first property—not just your dream property 

Listen now!  

 

FREE STUFF MENTIONED

  • The Quick-Start Guide to Your First Property 📘
    Glen and Rachelle Kroon's practical new book cuts through the confusion of buying your first home or investment property with clear, step-by-step advice to help you get into the market sooner.
    👉 Grab your copy here 
  • Money Money Money Podcast 🎧
    Listen to Glen’s award-winning personal finance podcast covering budgeting, investing, property and practical money strategies. 
    👉 Listen here  
  • Buying your first home? 🏠
    We've just released a 3-part series to make the start of your property investing journey easier. 
    👉 Start here: 593 | How to Buy a Home (The Right Way) – Part 1 

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605 | Has Rentvesting Really Stopped Working? – Chat with Glen James

SPEAKER_01

I don't think it can get much worse.

SPEAKER_02

We as an Australian need to give everyone the chance to buy a home.

SPEAKER_01

What is your why? Like, why the hell are you doing anything?

SPEAKER_00

You're tuning in to the Property Couch, Australia's number one property, finance, and money podcast. Featuring the titans of the industry since 2015. We're trusted by tens of thousands of investors on their journey to financial peace. This show is powered by more.

SPEAKER_02

Well, welcome to a very, very special guest interview. I've been excited to obviously spend some time to chat with this guest for a long time because I've been following his podcast over the years as well. He's been around in the podcast space for a long time and he's got a new book. But let me just make some introductions. Let's learn a little bit more about Glenn James. Glenn James is a trusted Australian personal financial commentator and educator who is passionate about helping people take control of their money. And after a decade-long career as a licensed financial advisor, Glen retired from advice to focus on financial education. He is the host of this very, very popular Money Money Money podcast, which is one of Australia's top financial podcasts, and he's authored the Quick Start Guide to Investing, which became a bestseller and was also awarded the best-selling release from Australian Business Book of the Year. Mate, that's pretty cool. Okay, he is here today to talk about his latest book, which is this one here, which is a quick start guide to your first property, co-authored by Rachel Coon. Glenn, mate, so good to have you on for the first time.

SPEAKER_01

I I feel we owe, well, I probably owe my audience an apology for not doing a collab with you guys. Vice versa. I don't know. It's we're here now and I'm excited to have a chat. I thanks for having me. Um to be honest, before we press go, we're like, let's just have a good old yarn. Yep. I don't care if you don't mention the book ever again on the show. I'm just here to um have a bit of fun and maybe allow someone to learn something.

Money Story: The Childhood Lesson That Shaped Glenn's Money Mindset

SPEAKER_02

Throw the running sheet out and just go for it. Well, that's I think we will get to that. Um, and obviously, any new guest on the show, we love to talk about your money backstory, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So um we learn a lot from our money psychology and our money behaviours from how we're growing up. So um the first question is when you were growing up, was money discussed around the dinner table at your household?

SPEAKER_01

I think it the only thing I remember growing up from my parents was like we wanted a pool, right? That's it. And I'm like, just buy one, get a why don't you have a credit card, all this stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the only thing that was like drilled into me was if you don't have the money, you can't afford it. Yeah. Like it's simple as that. That's it. And so growing up, the only thing I learned was credit cards and debt, like consumer debt, yeah, equals bad. Okay. And my dad bloody, we had he put an out-ground, above ground pool in and dug the bastard by hand. Like, you know, they dropped like 400. He did it by hand over weeks. Because obviously, maybe not obviously if you don't know my parents, but we weren't, it wasn't two doctor salaries, put it that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so give me give me the you know how many siblings, how many in the next one?

SPEAKER_01

One sister, 18 months older than me, mum and dad, working class, uh, grew up on the central coast of New South Wales, an hour and a bit north of Sydney. Yeah. Um, I'm still a Bogan, maybe a rich bogan now, I think they call it, but I I record my podcast.

SPEAKER_02

So obviously, Central Coast Newcastle boy. Um, growing up, any uh sort of paper rounds or first-time jobs? Tell us about you know when you started earning money.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, my first job, I was in year seven. I actually made a thing from I was I'm very self-aware, yeah, and it can be a detriment when you get stuck in your head. But from a like young age, as a young teen, I was like, I'm never working fast food, I don't want to do Maccas, I don't want to do Burger King, I don't want to do Subway, just not doing that. Yep. So my first job was actually out of a school afternoon cleaning a pharmacy mum worked at the um storage area, all the boxes, cutting out boxes and cleaning stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So back of house, but just basically still pay the bills?

SPEAKER_01

That's right, four dollars an hour, baby. That's right. I think it was 1912, and um the world was still black and white.

SPEAKER_02

So you you've you've only got a limited understanding of of money and how households run because it's just oh okay, you can't afford things, don't go into debt to buy things. Do you remember your folks ever talking about their mortgage or anything like that, or did you ever have any sort of holidays or you know, where were they domestic holidays, or how did it how did that play out?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, growing uh mortgage, not so much. I know now. Well, I know when I was getting my first mortgage, dad wouldn't shut off about 18% interest rates. Yeah. Um I gotta chill out, bro. No. Um, our first international holiday um was actually to Bali in Indonesia, but I was like 13 years old.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um bit of a culture shock moment for you. A little bit, a little bit. Um I love Indonesia, yeah. Um, but before that, it was like Queensland, you know, drove up to Queensland in a 74 Cortina, overheated a few times, had to pull over like money.

SPEAKER_02

Sounds like a quintessential Australian upbringing for someone who was born in a regional, well, not small regional town, but a pretty, you know, pretty large, growing, thriving regional environment. But obviously, you know, what people also uh might not know about that time. I mean, obviously BHP was one of the big employees that went valley up for a period of time, and so that that whole Newcastle area had a bit of a difficult patch there. Was that just before you know your upbringing or was it around?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I only moved to Newcastle like four years ago. Oh, okay. So I was pretty much Central Coast, which is broader Sydney. Got it now.

Why Great Investors Can Still Be Terrible Savers

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay, so there's nothing there. Now, you started earning money. Yeah. Um, what did that money do? Did it did it find its way into delayed gratification? No. Or please.

SPEAKER_01

I wanted something, I'll save up and get it. Just that was it. So I'm a recovering spender. Right, yeah. And tell me that story. Well, I just it was it's funny, like I'm really crap at saving money. Yeah, okay. But I'm a really good investor. Right. So you need a forced savings. I need a forced savings. Yeah. You like you'll shoot me with what I'm about to say. For many years, my investment properties were on P and I. Okay. I'm just like, well, sue me. Like, I'm not gonna spend it. Yeah. And I'm paying down.

SPEAKER_02

So you're thinking if I leave that money in another environment such as an offset, it walks. It goes through a walk. So um so tell me about your discretionary habits. What is it that that sort of what are your hobbies that sort of um you know you love to spend your money on?

SPEAKER_01

The hobby that I've got, it's not I spend money, it spends money for me. Okay. So I've got a boat.

SPEAKER_02

Ah, there it is. And that's so funny. How do you make a rich person poor? You buy a boat, exactly. Is it a yacht or a automatic boat?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, it's just a um, what is it, a C-ray 24 foot well, yeah, beautiful. Yeah, lovely boat.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and obviously creating magical experiences.

SPEAKER_01

And I bought it in COVID for 25 grand.

SPEAKER_02

And how often do you get out and not much.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, but I know I stopped counting at 120 grand on it. Um but it's got a new engine and new everything. Uh right. Oh, that's good. So that's where it goes. Yeah, so I think

The 1% Money System That Stops Impulse Spending

SPEAKER_01

in all seriousness, what I've learned is the Glenn James, who looks in the mirror every day, that person is really crap at managing money. Yeah, so I need to have systems and processes that govern what I do. And you know, I've got an online course, the Glenn James Spending Plan. Yep. I used to use it myself many years ago, and it helps the say uh the savers have permission to spend. Because remember, savers feel guilty with spending sometimes and it gives the spenders guardrails. Yeah. And I've just got a bit of I've just I'm probably I say my knuckles, see my knuckles are a bit like scraped. Yeah, because I just walk around like I'm borderline ape, like with like my lizard brain and all that. But if I've got systems and processes that you can follow that takes takes care of itself.

SPEAKER_02

So a rules-based money management system.

SPEAKER_01

I've got a I call it the 1% rule in my life. Yeah, if I see something that costs more than 1% of my annual income, and for those playing at home, if you own a hundred grand, that's a thousand dollars. Yeah, I do not spend more than one percent of my income without sleeping on it. Great, great. So I no longer can impulse an Apple Watch that I didn't wake up that morning thinking, why did I have a spare couple of grand on my everyday bank account?

SPEAKER_02

When did that come into the to the programming?

SPEAKER_01

Probably 20, early 2010s,

Why Glenn Became a Financial Adviser

SPEAKER_01

I think.

SPEAKER_02

Because the next segue really is how did you get into becoming a financial planner? Was it because you you had a need to solve your own problems?

SPEAKER_01

I was just always interested in personal finance. Like I grew up watching Clitheroe on TV and all that stuff. Like I just really frothed on that. Yeah. Um, I didn't have any money, but I liked the idea. When I was actually probably in 14, 15 years old, I went to a community college Saturday, Sunday workshop on share investing. Got my parents to drop me off as all these like retired old people, and um so I was always interested. Yep, but the plane didn't land because I didn't have my personal habits and behaviors sorted because of old spendy Glenny over here. Yeah. And also the last few years, you know, uh understanding that you've got ADHD, you idiot. Like that's why you're just so impulsive, lack of emotional regulation, lack of self-control, all that stuff. So that's been really d like dialed in more and helpful for you to understand why you do what you do. Yeah, so I've just got a really basic way that I manage money myself. Yep. I give some, I save some, and I spend some in that order. The save sum is for the lounge I'm saving for next month or save for future Glen. So as long as I'm giving some, saving some and spending some, I've got good balance.

SPEAKER_02

See, that's interesting. Like to do the share trading and to because it sounds similar to my pathway in terms of I had a high curiosity as a young person around personal finances and those type of things. And for me, my my advice is travel, right? Like I just love to travel and have experiences and that costs money. So that was where I would be spending all my discretionary money. Um, when you we you you I'm assuming you did commerce as part of school and then got into you know the it was it was funny.

SPEAKER_01

I actually left school at 16 in year 11 and did in a telecommunications apprenticeship. Yep. And before I left school, I was good at three things computer studies, yeah, photography, yeah, and business studies. Weirdly, I fast forward now. I'm basically doing a tech business with media and photography, and I always wanted to be a radio host. And I tell people I retired from the workforce at age 25 when I started my own business. Yeah, um, because I haven't worked a day since. Beautiful. But I back then I did an um uh advanced diploma, a diploma in financial services, and then did a certification through the association.

SPEAKER_02

I mean it it it is interesting, right? Because there is there's definitely a difference when it's your money and you can have your decisions, but when you're playing with other people's money and you've got to put a strategy and all of that type of stuff there, do you do you see it differently? Like, do you, you know, from from that point of view, I know that if I if I want to risk five percent of my net wealth on a speculative investment or whatever, and I I wouldn't do that, it's usually two percent, I'm very conservative. But you know, like when it is other people's money and you are getting trained in yeah, you know, goals, goals orientation, your needs analysis, and what sort of recommendations you were doing, did that did that help frame up some of your thinking as well in terms of the advice work you did?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, advice is actually really simple. Yep, you sit down, you work on the goals and what we want to achieve, and then we work backwards with the cards that we've got and try and play them in the most appropriate way. Yep. Um, it's actually, I mean, those that can't do teach, right? There you go. Crap of money, but I can teach it well.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you've got your other book there. Can we have that, throw that up in the yeah? So this is the first one. So give me a give me a summary. Give me give us a summary in terms of the quick start guide to investing. Yeah. You know, how how to invest, learn how to invest simple, smarter, and sooner. That's uh that's a ripper.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I just I like we've got a pretty big Facebook group, yeah, it's quite active, you know, 55,000 people. Um everyone's like, how do I do this and do that? And I'm like, freaking just I'll write it and give it to you. Like, you want to know what I think. Here is what I think about this topic.

SPEAKER_02

Here's the research

Start With Your 'Why' Before You Invest

SPEAKER_02

manual.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that really starts in the same way as the new first homebook. It's like we've got to get to this bedrock of what are your actual what is your why? Like, why the hell are we doing anything? Yeah, uh, we need to really nail the what we're doing because particularly with investing, I mean, it's harder with property because of the lumpy nature of the asset. Yeah, but uh, if someone's like, I want to start investing in shares, you can walk in tomorrow, throw a grand in, couple of grand in an ETF, done, you're invested, right? Yeah, it's easy to get invested, it's hard to stay invested. Yeah, because if Reggio comes around, oh, I'll just dip in my share portfolio, pull a grand out, well, it's the worst time in the market, so you've lost money. Why do we do this to start with? Where I think that's my whole thing. It's easy to get invested, it's hard to stay invested. Investing works, but people don't work. And that's why we need a rule-based system to follow with money and with property. And even this is crazy, and I want to talk like simple guardrails for people. So, like, as an example, when people go, What's the best card to use when I travel overseas? Anyone you want, just make sure it's not a top four bank because you're gonna get screwed on the spread. You do that outside the top four, and maybe Macquarie, uh, I don't know about Macquarie, they might be alright, but the top four, you're gonna get screwed on the FX spread. Yep. Keep away from them, you'll probably be okay. So I'm kind of thinking, like with the investing and the property stuff that I ask like what are just some rules of thumb, if I just don't go there, I won't have a terrible experience.

Inside Glenn's Latest Book: The Quick-Start Guide to Investing

SPEAKER_02

So Bryce and I, and obviously everyone in the in the property couch community love a great framework and love a good organized content. So I just I just want to share with you in terms of the the guide to investing, know your why, think and act like an investor, yeah, nail your strategy, yeah, um, grasp the basics, build your portfolio, index investing is the great start there. Build your portfolio, single share investing, and then thematic investing. I love thematic investing, advanced strategies, and your investment constitution, and then it's over to you. Now, let's move into the brand new book, which is about buying your first home. I love the framework again here. Know your why, setting up your foundations, understanding home loans, quick start hacks to enter the market. So we're gonna double-click on a few of these. Deciding on your strategy, buying a home to live in, deciding on your strategy, buying an investment property, choosing your asset type, uh, the buying process, while you need a dream team, you now have the keys, what next, and then what I wish I'd known, which is really cool. So I want to start firstly with a collaboration with Rachel. Yeah. So um, tell us a bit of that backstory in terms of how it came about, because obviously she's a broker. Yeah, um, so she's obviously right in the weeds of the lending process, but there's so much more to securing your first time than just the lending, right?

SPEAKER_01

So, Rach, I would say, is probably my words, and she can spit these out if I'm when I put them in her mouth. Um I think she's a better property investor in terms of her experience and skills than a mortgage broker. Because anyone can write a mortgage.

SPEAKER_02

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Like no offense to those brokers out there who think that you know it's a very technical crap, but you've got to learn no no, but like in terms of her skill set, she's very experienced in her own right as a property investor and a property person. Yep. Right? She's also very experienced in her own right at debt and structuring and all that. Yep. And I can tell you right now, you know the difference when my own mortgage broker, we had to get Rach in to pull a few favours and get a deal across the line because of how she operates and we refer to that as investment savvy brokers.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. That that they just, you know, the the the game of finance, oh game of property is a game of bricks and mortar, right? Yeah. Um, and also the game of finance associated with that. So knowing borrowing capacities when you're looking at several properties and understanding how you need to nuance the deal, time the delivery of the applications, all of those things to make sure you're comfortable or credits comfortable with the application, which sounds like you had a little bit of a you know, sort of a moment there where then she had to step in and basically structure the deal.

SPEAKER_01

I just don't use her business because I don't want her team knowing all my business. That's fair enough. But like finance and like strategy, like you've got to really know your strategy. Yeah, money and finance and financial planning and all that, it's a game of chess. Yep. You really want to make sure you've got a chess master to optimise.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, and that's also comes back to the dream team, Rod, in terms of building that team out there. Now, I when when you go through the writing process, yeah, there's chapters that you really enjoy writing, and there's areas in the book where you go, Oh, just love being in this space. Yeah. I know in Bryce and I, our latest book, um, you know, there's some stuff where you just got to get the basics out. Yeah, and it feels like, okay, but when you're getting into an area of the book that you're like, is there an area book that you say it was really that was a cathartic exercise? I really enjoyed it. It was a memorable piece to put together and

How to Buy Your First Home Sooner

SPEAKER_02

and a favorite bit in the book.

SPEAKER_01

I hate writing. But what I think my whole thing is my absolute skill, like I run a personal finance podcast, like it's not exciting, yeah, and it's not property investing, it's not share investing only. Yeah, we're personal finance, which is breadth, cash flow management, the whole budgeting. I froth on anything to get people from in a mess to structure and on the right track. I really love talking about uh the personal budgeting side. Um and I'll go as far as to say, like, with your goals, and you probably say similar things like this, if you've got a goal to a financial goal, whatever that is, you if you're eating out or getting Uber, I'll give people grace, once a week. More than once a week, you don't want it that bad.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like there is so much crap that hangs off our budgets at the moment that just we're not there. I do this old-fashioned thing now to save money. Do you know what I do? Go for it. Hi, can I get a vermacilli chicken noodle salad thing? Yeah. Yep, sweet. I'll ten minutes. Okay, I'll walk around soon, bye. I'll come pick it up. I just save six dollars. Now, people are using these apps, and it's not the it's low-hanging fruit to you know kiss on. Correct. But it all adds up.

SPEAKER_02

100% it does.

SPEAKER_01

And if you are not serious enough uh about your financial goal, I don't care whether it's traveling to Prague, I don't care if it is buying your first investment property, your first home, your first whatever, if you're not serious enough about your financial goal, you won't change your behavior, you're not gonna change your behaviour. It's uh like sue me. It's crazy, but but damn logical.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, what we do is not rocket size. No, in terms of but I but I do I I really love the transformational story that you're telling there. Like when it's done well and you see people, I mean, whether it be on your Facebook group or um some of the people you're interviewing who have gone on that transformational journey and have set their goals and are ticking off on those goals and those big rocks in the jar, yeah. It's that's automated, right? Yeah, just makes you feel warm inside in terms of being able to do that. And it's

Is Home Ownership Becoming Impossible in Australia?

SPEAKER_02

tough aspect.

SPEAKER_01

It's like it's I and I don't know if it's probably more of an opinion piece right now, but like I don't know, like we've just and you're gonna talk about it later, but in terms of the property market in Australia as a whole, yeah, I don't think it can get much worse for people trying to get their first property. Yeah, so something has to change.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, we we all know that it's nigh impossible to get house prices and land values and all that to go down, right? Yeah, like I mean, it can happen when you've got no economic activity because you don't need people there and and the whole thing falls apart. But the reality is still that you've got a program of activity. That's happening, and then you've got governments cost of subdivision and so forth is now around 50% of the cost of basically setting up to actually get you know land out of the ground.

SPEAKER_01

Forget the freaking subdivising. That's another thing, like the cost of building. Yes. It's huge. I I just think it's it's so bad. We the people in Australia, over the last 25-30 years, since the turn of the century, both governments of either side have 100% just dropped the ball.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you've also got to understand that the vast majority of the cost of construction in this country is labour.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And our minimum wage keeps going higher and higher. And obviously, trade, skill labour keeps going higher and higher and higher.

SPEAKER_01

I don't want like I preface. Do you have an idea about how to solve it? I'm not I'm not a half glass half full or half empty type of guy. I'm uh the glass is smashed on the countertop type of guy. That's my default. And I just think everything is so cooked right now. Something has to change.

SPEAKER_02

What do you think it's gonna be? Like, what's the what's the the answer to that question?

SPEAKER_01

Because the reality is still it's supply, it's the local government, and it's it's all at a local level first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like release planning, all that all of the windfall taxes and all the taxes and charges.

SPEAKER_01

So it is a supply issue, and the current government admit that. Yep. Which is weird. Like I went to probably three or four years ago, the current government weren't talking about supplies issue, but last year, it was the first time when I went to the budget where Claire O'Neill actually verbalized it. I'm like, oh thank goodness we're starting to live in reality. Like, yeah, it's not one thing, it's everything, and the whole thing's cooked. And I don't know if it starts with you know energy prices, the co like everything is like, well, such so my old thing is it can't get any worse, but also not using Uber Eats doesn't solve the problem either.

SPEAKER_02

Like, we've got to do everything we can as people to be the best stewards of the money we earn, but also the framework it's I'm we could

Why Your First Home Doesn't Need to Be Your Forever Home

SPEAKER_02

we could talk about I'm oh if we have time we're gonna come back to that because I want to be into that conversation as well because obviously it is one of the you know the challenges now what what we can control is the bud is the the positive right so that's you know we know that the the hardest part is potentially saving for the the posit in terms of getting in, and you talk about you know potentially new strategies because there are you can you need to adopt you know drop the outdated advice. Yeah, so let's talk about what some of these new ideas are when it comes to getting your foot on the property market because there's another thing you also talked about, forget about the forever home, right? That doesn't exist, yeah. Yeah, so but the reality is is um people are aspiring to that forever home, right? Like as much as it mightn't exist. So take us through the logic there in terms of how you're talking about these new strategies towards that forever home because I think the property ladder stuff that you talk about in the book is really pertinent, you know, in terms of it's funny, the it's so like anything like with these government incentives, the minute you open your trap, people at you is like, oh, it's political and all this.

SPEAKER_01

Like my whole view is I actually don't care. Anyone who listens to me, friends, family, my listeners, if you want your first home to live in, if you want it, let's try and use everything available today. Yep. Let's just use everything. What we're in control of.

Government Schemes Every First Home Buyer Should Know

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Like some of the government schemes, if the start says, oh, it's dicking with this or dicking with that, who cares? Tell the person that who's just used one of the schemes to get into their first home. Yes. They're cheering.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Five percent.

SPEAKER_01

However, yeah. So I think it's about one being aware of the schemes and layering those schemes with state-based incentives and schemes. Yep. Federal government schemes, the first home super savour scheme. Yes. If you are fortunate enough to have a parent with equity, uh I honestly think a parental guarantee is the most low risk strategy on the planet in real term.

SPEAKER_02

So let's let's quickly unpack that because people might be saying, what is this? So you can do a limited guarantee whereby uh the parents are guaranteeing roughly around 25%, which means that the borrower is still borrowing the full amount and still needs their servicing to be there. Yeah. But effectively it it ensures that the uh borrower doesn't pay lender's mortgage insurance. Yeah. So that could be um $8,000 to in some cases $25,000 in terms of as a one-off cost that protects the you know the banker, the lender, against you as the risk.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So basically, if you are a parent and you've got equity and you want to help your kids, you can use it for their first investment property as well.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna be pushing, I've got a podcast called Retire Right for like over 55s alright. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna be pushing this book for Christmas gifts for their kids and themselves because you can help your kids really easily if you want to, but the outdated stuff of saving 20% and doing all this, forget that, no one's saving 20% now. Um I still like my first home right, I had the option to use a parental guarantee, I didn't, but I paid LMI.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

LMI is not a bad thing,

Family Guarantees, LMI & Smarter Ways to Buy Earlier

SPEAKER_01

but it gets you in. Property's more than double since I've had it. So whatever, 15 grand LMI, best money I've ever spent. It's more of a cost of doing business. Yes. And I just think we have to do everything in our power, but we need to know what tools are available in the tool belt. And that's just one thing that the book does, just sss unpacks. These are the different ways. Yep. And you you know, you talk to a a mortgage broker like I mean, your team, they'd be having these conversations every day. Every day. Like literally, I used to actually I used to tell people forget your first home, forget looking, do that, save 40 grand first, then start to have a conversation. Because at the end of the day, you don't want to be running on the line, you need some meat. Yeah. Where mortgage brokers will be like, call anytime. And I think it's right because they'll be able to give you some scenarios and pathways to like you're gonna need this. Um, and I will say, like, we have a lot of people at the moment writing in getting inheritances, right? So they're I've noticed it more in the last three years than ever before. I can tell you about that. Yeah, it's this intergenerational wealth. It's like we're trying intergenerational wealth.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but the whole thing is $5.4 trillion. Oh, it's nuts. It's gonna be huge. It's gonna be huge. Government's gonna do well from it.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, well, if they introduce a death tax, then it's so basically I would just say if you are listening and you want to help your young adults get into their first home, it's really easy to do that if you've got a home already. You might just go, we're just gonna pay their. You might be like, I don't want to pay, I don't want to use a parental guarantee because they're a little turd, whatever. You could contribute and go, we're gonna pay you stamp duty for you if you want to buy a property to as an investment property, or we're gonna pay the LMI.

SPEAKER_02

Isn't it interesting? Um, our European immigrants, it was all about getting their kids into their property, and you know, they think about wealth as family. Three kids, I want three properties. Correct, and the and the Asian community, the Chinese community, very similar in terms of we're our job as a family is to get the first property, then the second property, and the third, how many kids we've got, we're gonna basically set them up. I think we're growing up, you know, in terms of our financial understanding as Australian, let's call it Anglo-Saxon, um, you know, second, third generations. We've got a lot of there's a lot of family wealth there now. Yeah, and so if you don't use it then, and we end up like the UK, they'll just take it off you. So I think you know that's the death tax problem.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the the problem is is like, you know, now I step into being a communist, but whatever. Like the problem is not everyone has got parents with all this money. No, I understand. So we need to have a society that allows people to still be able to afford a house within a certain perimeter of a city or well, but there's like unfortunately, I don't know how you can fix that.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I I'm happy to be in this debate because the the reality is, I mean, you know, if you want to live in downtown New York, there's a there's a cost. Oh, I get it. And and same with Sydney and Melbourne, there's a cost. But if you want to live on the fringes of the city, that's the that's the trade-off. I mean, but you live it you're still living in the best country in the world, yeah. But I don't know, and so your trade-off is well, I'm gonna have to live in an apartment, as opposed to having a

When Rentvesting Makes More Sense Than Buying to Live In

SPEAKER_02

backyard for the kids swing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, look, there there is a change that will need to go on with your mindset, and that's you know, a lot of the time in the the book we wanted to just shape people, and it's like you do you know much about Sydney? I don't know. Yeah, no, I lived there for ten years. Okay, so North Shore Roseville, for example. Yep, beautiful. Um might be like Glen Iris or something around here, right? Yep. I grew up in Glen Iris, I grew up in Roseville. Okay. You're not buying there, I'm sorry. But that's an honest conversation that's but that's me living in reality to say it's first home by probably buying a two and a half ton property. So if you do want to buy property, if you are interested, we have to then look at okay, well, we need to build wealth now and not buy a home to live in because it's I live in reality, yeah, and so it's just not possible in some areas as a first home buyer.

SPEAKER_02

That's right about deciding an investment property as potentially part of that stepping stone. So rent ving is obviously discussed, you know, as part of the options that are available. Now, the new tax regime does make that a bit more challenging. Has that, you know, moved your view in regards to No,

Will the New CGT Changes Hurt Future Investors?

SPEAKER_02

I think so.

SPEAKER_01

My hot take on that whole thing, and you know, at the time of recording, it's not put to bed anything. Correct. Um, I think for the rest of the conversation we'll assume that it will be put to bed as is on the tin. Yep. Um, I reckon the bank policy will do more of the heavy lifting in slowing down the market than the actual government policy, because with the negative gearing, it's like the banks aren't going to lend on it, so that will do the heavy lifting. Um, I still think there's fundamentally, like we get all these questions you know in our Facebook group. Should I stop buying shares? Should I stop investing in ETFs? The government didn't rock up one day and go, alright, everyone, the fundamentals of investments have changed. You now invest and you don't make any money from an investment. No. They're not saying that. No, they're just tweaking the tax regime.

SPEAKER_02

Now, 23, 24% to well, depending on how quick your gain is. Yeah. So if you but if you if you're investing for five to ten, fifteen years, 32%. So they're gonna take another eight or nine percent of your money. No, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting, this I I wonder, like, number one, if you I I I hate doing this on someone's podcast, I don't know the audience, but it was like go for it. My whole vibe is if you're outraged at the changes to the CGT stuff, right? Number one, did you understand what the how the current 50% discount worked? Do you actually understand that apparently it was in place to make it easy to strip out the inflation, it was in place to get capital moving and do all that stuff. Yep. And to average salaries.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So that because obviously when you're starting off investing, but you're getting you're going through the different marginal tax brackets. Yep. You were going up those. So it it had two purposes. Yeah. It gave it was trying to incentivize investment, but two, it was also making sure that you didn't pay too much tax um as you moved up the at the end of the wage scale.

SPEAKER_01

Importantly stripping out the inflation. Yes. So we can all agree that we don't want to pay tax on inflation. We want we want to pay tax on real gains. Exactly. Yes. So the question is then, well, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Now I've my personal view is, and like because I was down in Canberra and I did the interviews with Jim and Yeah, Jim, and I try to do the best job I could, but anytime you're talking to a politician, everyone comes at you. Yeah. I don't care who anyone votes for. I just report what's going on. My opinion of it, I don't love the 30% floor. I don't love the um the I think the trust not distributing to a corporate beneficiary, that's an ideological thing. Yeah. Because it's just, I don't know, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_02

Uh but I I I mean, as someone who invests in property, I despise the fact that it's going to be on shares. I mean, I knew that was going to penalise property investing, but the fact that they're actually doing it because the the you know, we got to create the wealth. I mean, I'm speaking as a Gen X, right? Yeah. I got to create wealth with those tax settings from 1990 onwards, right? And I and I saw an opportunity there and they were favourable. I took advantage of them. Yeah. But now this younger generation can't even do that through share investing. Yeah. So that's disappointing. That's disappointing for me. Again, as we, you know, as we're recording this, that's where the current settings are. But I just think, why do that?

SPEAKER_01

Why the whole thing was, and this is more of a political commentary, like in the numbers that I crunched, the Henry Review Allegra Spenders Tax White Paper, that if we just said that we're doing a discount method, it would have been easier for them to sell. It's like we're just doing a 35% discount now. Correct. Like, I don't know why they again they've got the political capital.

SPEAKER_02

No, I well, you know why? They this is this is revenue raising. It has to be revenue raising. Like if they just did it on property, as Jim Charmers said, it's not going to raise much, three to five billion.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But in the forwards, under the current model that they've got, it's raising 20, 30, 40, 50 billion dollars a year in 20 or 40, 50 years from now. Because that is, you know, that's compounding return that they're going to get access to. So it it it it is material and obviously political. It gives them the chance next next budget to go to the butt go to the following election in 28 with more tax cuts.

SPEAKER_01

But the problem is it's the real problem in Australia, I think. This has got nothing to do with buying first time, whatever, by the way. I'll bring it back after this. No, no, the it's too much of our country is funded off the back of the PAYG.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. It's over 53, 54% of total tax receipts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I don't know why. Yep. They just don't they've got their national cabinet at the moment. Most of them are like pretty much all Labour anyway, almost.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, the bot the lower house is 90%. No, but like each state. Oh, yes. Yeah, sorry, yeah, state premiers. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Northern Territory isn't, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02

No, Northern Territory's not, um, and Tassie's not. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So like let's have that conversation. Queensland now, sorry. Yes, yes. Let's have a conversation. Let's increase the GST and tax spending. Yeah. Consumption tax. Yeah. Sure. And I know there's the I'm actually getting someone on my show about this gas tax thing because I don't fully understand it. But we need to get the tax off the individual taxpayer. Now, in terms of P A Y G. Yep, we need to move that down. The current government will say, well, that's why we're doing the the Weighto and all this stuff, but just not moving the needle enough. No. And to be fair, like I'm probably from sound like I'm being a bit critical, it is I am because I am. Um it was a bit of a shocker, a bit of a stinker budget.

SPEAKER_02

Like it I don't think because they did it stealth and they didn't engage with it, we could have got better settings on it. Yeah. But now they're going to ram it through. Yeah. And so now it means that, you know, there's going to be a political fight around taxes and the economy and how you run it.

SPEAKER_01

It's all just tinkering. There needs to be wholesale change.

SPEAKER_02

Which is GST. Yeah. That's the big one. And then to your point around the gas tax, yes, we should, you know, the fact that a country can sell our gas and then another country on sells the gas for a profit for more than we sell it. That's not right. Now, of course, the political um challenge they had right now was fuel supply out of Singapore. Yeah. Right. So we needed to get the diesel. And I I do get that part of it.

SPEAKER_01

That's the politics. I I do get that part of it. Yeah. But all I know is I think if you're a first home buyer at the moment in Australia, it's not any it's not going to get any easier. So something has to change.

SPEAKER_02

No. That's right. And but I that's why I'm disappointed about the fact that I can't invest in shares and help me get my deposit so I can buy a house. Like I would have liked to have seen.

SPEAKER_01

There's an asterisk there though. Yes. So anyone who wants to you can still use the first home super saver scheme for your first home.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so via your super Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so you've got 15 grand a year. Good point. So, and that was I jokingly saying, you know, don't whinge if you're saying, well, I have to pay a little bit more CGT on my shares because I'm saving it for my first home. I'm like, you can whinge after you save 15 grand a year in your super first. Good point.

SPEAKER_02

That's a really great piece of advice.

SPEAKER_01

But I think it's I yeah, on one side of the ledger, it doesn't make sense to single out

The First Home Super Saver Scheme Explained

SPEAKER_01

an individual asset class from a tax purist thing. Yep. So it's like it's capital gains tax everywhere.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Um I just think one of the things I was gonna ask Jim Chalmers was like, actually, I I did off mic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, what's um what's Billy, what's Billy Boy Shorten think of you? He's like, is he upset you didn't do the Holy Trinity and rammed Franken credits in there as well? What did he say?

SPEAKER_02

Well, so I mean I'll jump to that question because you did interview Jim Chalmers, you do obviously Allegra Spender and also Jane Hume. Yeah. Of all of those conversations as well. Oh, okay, sorry, um Marissa Waters. Um who who was making the most sense around what's needed? I mean, Jim is restricted uh in terms of what he has um to offer because he's got he's he's running the country. The others can speak a bit more freely. Yeah. Um what did you what what were your takeaways from those?

What Politicians Get Right (and Wrong) About Housing

SPEAKER_01

So first and foremost, I ain't no journalist. Yeah, I don't have any type of obligation to be impartial. No. If you listen to my podcast, it's broadly a Glenn James opinion piece. Yeah, half the time I don't know what my own opinion is anyway. Um so I was people know mine. Yeah, well, I was just more of the fact that I'm going to ask all these different people. So I did the people you said, yeah, I also did Phil Courie from the AFR and PK from ABC. Oh, yes, yeah. Like people like, oh, you're such a Labour Party shill and stooge and all that, interviewing PK. I'm like, did you listen to the interview before her? I had Phil Courie from the AFR. Yeah. Like, please give me a break. Um, so my whole view was what talk to us, yeah, and my listeners aren't dumb, they can make their own decision. Yeah, the problem is when I'm a big fan of Allegra's work. Um, I think, and this is the problem with Australia, like she's a she's a liberal, she should be in the Liberal Party. Correct. Thank you. What are you doing here? What are we doing here? Um so you know, we're not leaving our brain at the door, and we're we're looking at some structural change that's needed. Yep. Um I like talking about it. But even the liberals won't bloody talk about GST. Yeah. Like it it's not. But this is a whole actually, do you know one thing that was uh interesting? I think I lost my train of thought. Oh no, no. I said to Jim, I'm like, based on what you proposed, like a year ago, Adam Bant was saying our in uh we'll give an investor one investment property for Ned Gearing. One investment property. I'm like, Jim's just like everything. Like, sure, it's grandfathered and all that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um I don't mind I'm probably less right than I was like politically right, never right, um, than I was 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_02

I've probably centrist right all my well, when I grew up, you know, I was centrist left and voted mostly Labour through my 20s and early 30s. Yeah. And I've moved to a centrist right position because I've worked something out. Yeah the only thing that politicians have to do is run a strong economy. Yeah. Because when you actually grow the economic pie really, really well, yeah, you get enough tax receipts, but you don't have to keep taking our tax away from us. Yeah. So if you might have the settings in place, you can get that out, right?

SPEAKER_01

So you know, Larissa Waters, like someone texts me, she's like, who didn't listen to politics at all. Yeah. She's like, oh, I just heard that Larissa Waters chick, she was really good. She made a lot of sense. Well, and it's true, but the problem I have with my comrade friends out there, hello if you're listening. I like your ideas, but we walk down the garden path and we're like, you get to this, okay, so how's that actually gonna work? And how are you gonna pay for it? Yeah, so I I like the ideas. Yeah. I just think it's a very exciting time to be alive. Um particularly if you're interested in federal politics, because she's gonna be looking a bit different in a couple of years' time. And yeah, one thing I was this was annoyed me as well about this whole budget thing. When I was in Canberra, like I got back, I was there for like three days doing interviews and meeting with people. Got back the Friday night, went to a dinner party, right? And I was, you know, we're just like, I shouldn't be going out, I'm exhausted and I'm sick of talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My friend, she came up to me, she goes, Oh, so what do you think about the budget? And I said to her, jokingly, I'm like, here is what I think. Number one, are you an economist? No, shut up. Number two, have you read budget paper one to four and have it with you so we can discuss it? No, shut up. Number three, have you written to your local member and actually told them your concerns? No, shut up. We have to get to the place where we have to understand the actual reality and turn away all the uh political noise. Because to be frank, I I don't know what your view on this is, genuinely, but that small business thing that was a runaway train that was based on misinformation.

SPEAKER_02

Like so. So there is a small business concession.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, like the the four concessions are already there. Correct. And most people who have a hairdressing business or a barber shop or whatever aren't going to do two million dollars. They're not selling their business for three million dollars. No, most people, most small businesses.

SPEAKER_02

But I mean, as as businesses grow, and if they've got aspiration and they take it into the ten million and above, yeah, you know, you you you potentially you don't want to disincentivize um innovation and employment. And that is the kicker. That is the kicker. I said to Jim. This is not an aspirational budget. I said to Jim.

SPEAKER_01

Don't even try and spin it that way. I get it that you sure we need to tax gain. Yep. We need to not tax inflation, I totally get it. Yep. But part of the tweak in the 99-2000 with the CGT thing was to get capital moving and the inspiration. So I get that. Yep. And people have already commented on your feed with me on here saying I'm a bloody commie or a Labour stooge. I get it. I've heard it all before. But we just need to know is like, well, how do we encourage investment in small businesses? And maybe there needs to be one thing I would have liked to see would was probably like, yes, it's a a real indexation method, however, there is a small offset or something like that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, we had a we had a policy position from Picker, I'm the chair of the non-for-profit association. The the problem with property has been the speculation that's been going on in the property space, this, and and buyers agents teaching people to trade property, right? And that that's not good and healthy for anyone, and that's where we've seen regional markets get to where and so I said, look, don't touch negative gearing because you need the incentive to add to supply, right? And if you do that, you are going to add to supply now because you but it's in the wrong spots, you're gonna be basically building out in the middle of nowhere, or you're gonna be building high-rise, and people don't want to live in those.

SPEAKER_01

Australia is a bit of an outlier on the national stage with the negative gearing against your income.

SPEAKER_02

Like I was probably in the US, you know, in the US you can you you get a tax discount on your principal home and your mortgage on your family home.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you get um yeah, you claim interest on your mortgage requirements. Yeah, yeah. So Which I think is probably a bit dumb, but um my whole thing was around the I was in favour even when Allegra did her white paper earlier in the year, or the end of last year, it I think it actually makes sense to quarantine the losses against the asset. Like something it's not getting any better, so something has to change. Give it a run for a few years. If it's not working, trust me, it's gonna be turned back.

SPEAKER_02

I was hopeful that they I I I we were supportive of changes to capital gains tax. Yeah. Like as an industry and and someone who represents, you know, property investors. Not everyone's gonna agree with that, but that's what we were. But we wanted to get it back. So we were we were trying to say, well, if you want to get the settings right, we want investing for the long term. We don't want speculators coming in and and artificially inflating prices, which is what's been happening for the last decade, right? So so make it longer term, so the longer you hold it, that's when you get back to your 50%. So that's what we did a stage step. And then for negative gearing, yeah, we don't want people having 30, 40, 50 properties these days. You lose your social license with that, right? But two investment properties that could be negatively geared, that also made a reasonable amount of sense.

SPEAKER_01

Correct. Most farm and dads have just got the one.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's the point I'm making. So there's 67,000 nurses, there's 160,000 teachers that now with these new settings, they don't get a chance to negatively gear because they've got to put the money in up front. So guess who gets a chance to keep doing what we're doing? Rich people with really high incomes. There's no change to their situation.

SPEAKER_01

The

Why Glenn Warns First Home Buyers About Off-the-Plan Properties

SPEAKER_01

biggest fear I've got off the back of this, and this is probably what I would tell people if they're a first home buyer. Yes, let's get it. No, no, no, because this is really important. So in the book, as we actually cautioned if you're a first-time property buyer or an investor, we really cautioned off the plan, yes, or um a staged build for your first property, like really cautioned. But I'm really scared now that it's going to be the tax incentives as the marketing hook, the prices are gonna get inflated more and the unscrupulous developer or property person, and to be in fact, if I thought you were unscrupulous, you wouldn't be coming on my show. Like the week after this budget, you wouldn't believe the amount of property developer companies who reached out to want to sponsor stuff for my podcast. Like, get a freaking grip.

SPEAKER_02

We've I I've already, you know, I've already started verbatim telling people that these are poor investments, they don't stack up even with a tax advantage. Like the fundamentals never change. They never changed, they never change, and so I'm I'm really pleased, Glenn, that you're on that. But I really now all you need to do is ask ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini or Copilot now, they're all smart enough now. Um, tell me about the performance of new builds and and off-the-plan apartments compared to established property in established areas where there's scarce land. Yeah, the reality is they underperform, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that on your show. Yeah, but that's that's a truck. Now, I'm I am conscious of time because you did promise this. I don't care if we talk about the book anymore. You said that's it's a start. Well, we did go off a chat. We wanted to have a chat.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm sorry to your audience if you don't agree with me, but I don't agree with my with myself most of the time anyway.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no, they that's okay. They understand where you're coming from in terms of and and a healthy.

SPEAKER_01

I'm a filthy capitalist pig like the next person. Like, trust me, I love money, I'm not allergic to it. Yep, but you're awesome property, you're happy to buy more. But you've got some egalitarian elements to it. You just have to make it so people who are just getting started were like me when I was getting started,

How to Choose the Right First Property

SPEAKER_01

so it's actually possible. Yep.

SPEAKER_02

And so let's talk about that in terms of you you talk about choosing the right type of asset. So, what what's some of the decision uh methodology you used in the book to help people in terms of choosing the asset type?

SPEAKER_01

Um, good question. I think Rach wrote that the property guy. Well, we know one thing. I I jokingly said this the other day, you were on John's podcast a couple of weeks ago. I I jokingly said, Oh, we just stole John's uh property fundamentals and put our name on them. But broadly speaking, what I would probably say is from a home point of view, I believe your home to live in, it's a consumption item, and the investment fundamentals might not stack up because you're you're doing that because you value the security low. I'll give you a perfect example, right? A friend of mine, hello, she's not listening, whatever. I had lunch with her on the weekend, saw Pot's Point in the middle of Sydney CBD behind the cross, right? She bought a couple of apartments in there of her clients over the journey. Yeah, so she last year bought a studio for like 500 grand, right? There is not one investment fundamental on the planet that that's what it's stood up to. Like, it's just a non-startu. However, it was her first home. She's a single woman, she just needed something affordable, she wanted the security, and she wanted a location. She wanted a location. It's and remember, when you get to you know I'll probably I'll try and come back at the end of the year because we're releasing a retirement book, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

But in Australia, the the pillars of retirement, the main pillar is owning your own home. So when I was a financial advisor, you want to get people so when the tools are down, they own their home.

How to Choose the Right First Property

SPEAKER_01

1000%. And the reason that's so important is because rents rise faster than inflation. So for my friend Ainsley, yeah, she wouldn't care, whatever. Um, no one will know it. It made no investment sense on the planet for her to buy that one bedroom.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

No sense. Yep. But on a lifestyle, I need somewhere to live, I don't want to get evicted, I want security, I want comfort. I say you go for it, Gow.

SPEAKER_02

Not means tested against your pension as well. Whereas if she had um half a million in shares, that is going to be means tested against any type of supplementary pension. So it makes complete sense. We as an Australian need to give everyone the chance to buy a home. Yep. Um, and it doesn't have to be an investment home, it can be a lifestyle choice by the sounds of that. But that will appreciate. I mean, because at the end of the day, the inflation um adjusted construction cost to build that in the future will be more than what she paid. So she will make money on it because also principal place for residence if she chooses to sell, but she's also made a choice around financial security by just having a property.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Now, so that's kind of the one end of the spectrum. The next step up is yeah, we want a house to live in. Yep. Can we use investment fundamentals to use for the first home that we buy to live in? If we can, we will. Yes. For example, probably not going to do the one on the main road, we might go the street back.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Probably not going to buy a fibro shack, we might buy brick veneer. So I think there is still ways to, you know, we don't leave our brain at the door, but we need to know housing to live in is primarily a consumption item. It is. And there are still some investment fundamentals that you can use.

Final Advice for First Home Buyers in Today's Market

SPEAKER_01

Yep. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02

Mate, I reckon we're going to end on that. This book, a quick start guide to your first property. Now, this guide is a practical, encouraging, and realistic roadmap to first-time property buyers in Australia. And here's why. It blends financial education, emotional support, and actionable tactics, making it an invaluable resource to anyone looking to enter the property market. Um, and it is today's challenging environment. So, mate, congratulations to you and Rachel on the book. Thank you. Um, it's obviously available in all the bookstores and bad books and bad bookstores as well, or online as well. Mate, thanks very much. It's been a hope. We did go in all directions.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, your comments, because as soon as you use the P political word and talk about that, they come for you.

SPEAKER_02

I love it because I mean if it wasn't important, we wouldn't be talking about it. Absolutely. Thanks very much, man. Cheers, appreciate it. And until next week, always remember knowledge is empowering, but only if you act on it.

SPEAKER_00

Hey folks, Epty here, your smart money sidekick Inside More. Just one quick thing before we sign off. If you're new to the property catch community, welcome. One quick tip to help you get the most value from the show. Our first 20 episodes cover the foundations we build on every week. And yes, listening on one and a half speed is totally acceptable. If you're short on time, download our free binge guide. It distills those episodes into one easy read with heaps of visual diagrams, alongside free tools inside more, your all-in-one financial home, to help you organize your money and plan your next best move. Check out all the links in our show description. And just a quick reminder before you go anything we cover on this podcast is general in nature. It's not considered to be financial advice, and we certainly recommend that you seek out professional advice before making any financial decisions. Once again, everything mentioned is linked in the show description. Ready when you are. Catch you next week.

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Ben Kingsley

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Bryce Holdaway

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