How Soccer Connects the World: A Conversation with Tim Bascom

If you're a soccer fan comment below. I had so much fun connecting with Tim Bascom! Legend - and I'm grateful to get back to conversations. Also, everybody who wants to meet friends and build community - FIND A WAY TO DO IT WITHOUT FOCUSING ON IT. Soccer is a great example. People show up for soccer - and they have to interact with people. After awhile, it turns into more interactions, which build relationships, and like Tim said, you get to know the people!

Remember life is better when you talk to people. And soccer is a great way to talk to people. 

Check out Tim's book here, The Boundless Game: https://timbascom.com/

Transcript

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0:00

Good morning.

Welcome to the Doctor People podcast.

This is your host, Chris Miller.

I am in my car.

It's 5:40 AM, and I am on my way to go.

Have a conversation with Tim Bascom.

He just released a book about the power of soccer to bring people together.

And if you know me, you know that's important to me.

0:16

So let's go to the gym.

If you're watching the video, then you'll see this short clip where I introduced him and then I nutmeg him unexpectedly.

I had to do it.

Nobody's safe.

The audio wasn't good for this clip, so here's a little voice over.

All right, time for the combo.

0:34

I am sitting on a soccer field with a soccer legend and a soccer ball.

We have a full game of soccer going on behind us.

We're going to try our best to not get hit by a ball.

If we do, we do have this soccer ball.

We're going to be able to fight him back.

I'm sitting with Tim Bascombe.

0:50

He just wrote The Boundless Game, a book about soccer on a soccer field with soccer people behind us, soccer stories from across the street to around the world.

All right, Tim, I had just asked you, but I'm going to ask you again.

Maybe you can provide a little more of a controversial answer for me.

I think Lionel Messi's the best soccer player in the world.

1:06

You got people who love Ronaldo.

A lot of people call him Penaldo because he only scores penalty kicks.

The older guys like Maradona, the Brazilian Ronaldo.

So I know you love Messi, but tell me, why do you think Messi's the best?

Why do I think he's the best?

1:26

Well, he's longevity of what he's accomplished, consistently contributing cup after cup, game after game.

That's one of the reasons.

This is my own take, but I like guys who play team ball.

1:43

And he's not just a scorer, you know, he's known for his assists.

He's got incredible dribbling skill, so it's all of that.

He's he's the full bundle.

He was walking a lot more this last World Cup.

He was walking.

1:59

But that's because he's older, and when he did have to contribute, he did he.

Showed up, so I watched him score a hat trick against Algeria, which we'll talk about.

Algeria, it's pretty significant, especially where we are right now.

We're in rock shock Park and Algeria played here.

This was their base.

2:15

Camp right here.

You're Rep in the gear.

I told my friend while we were watching that game live.

I said Messi is either scoring or he's walking.

You know, it's like one of the two.

And I think that's fascinating.

You know, I've been playing soccer for years now, but throughout the week I play over here and sometimes I'll try and play like Messi, but I don't think I'm smart enough as Messi.

2:38

So I just end up walking everywhere and never getting to the ball.

Yeah, yeah, you got to move.

I do if I'm going to get engaged.

But yeah, OK, Algeria.

So what's the significance of Algeria being here, knowing their history?

2:58

OK, there are a couple things I got to say.

First of all, I got to go to an Algeria Austria game at the Kansas City.

And that was an epic game.

It was incredible.

We, we, we've it.

It was not a marquee game.

The reason I could go partly was that it was less expensive because no one expected it to be much.

3:19

But that's the fun thing about the Cup.

You get games that are incredible, right, that weren't the marquee ones.

It's just like March Madness.

So Algeria is behind, they catch up.

Algeria is behind, they catch up Algeria and now is in a tied situation with Austria.

3:35

Both of them will go forward if they stay tied for 15 minutes.

They're just passing the ball around, dinking it.

Austria doesn't touch it.

They just drop back.

And then suddenly in injury time, Algeria attacks and scores and they're going to win the game.

3:54

People are booing because they're just dinking the ball around, right?

It was a weirdly interesting game.

And then after they score, Austria screams down the field with only a minute to go and scores and ties it up.

So it was very exciting, very enjoyable.

4:11

That is super exciting.

And but but I haven't even said anything about.

The Algeria history so.

People might not know that in the Fifties, 1950s, Algeria was still under France colonially.

4:27

And in the 1950s there were Algerian players in France who were going to go to the World Cup and suddenly they disappeared, Like 11 of them disappeared.

And that's because they had fled the country to form their own team in Tunisia because that was a safe place to go.

4:49

And they said we are a nation.

Right at the time there was a war that was breaking out for independence and they were saying we are a nation.

FIFA recognizes we're going to play as the Independence 11.

That's cool.

You know, it's pretty exciting to just know that and to see that Lawrence is hosting them as a nation with their own team now, but it wasn't so long ago that wasn't the case.

5:15

And they got to a point to where they were the hidden 11 and now they are a team playing the chief stadium against Messi.

And the Lawrence, Algeria narrative really blew up too.

Yeah, I did.

That was Lawrence was part of international news talking about Algeria.

5:33

What was your perspective on that news in your experience throughout the World Cup?

I I just was so pleased seeing some of the video footage and stuff.

The Algerian men really did feel welcomed and it was fun seeing them learn about our history, too.

5:51

Like going over to the stadium where all that KU basketball has happened and not stadium, but the arena.

And they're in there and they're shooting hoops and you're like, this is so goofy and you could tell they don't play basketball.

But it was fun seeing them enjoying that.

6:08

Yeah, yeah.

And that's that's also why the US didn't do as well because we spend too much time playing basketball compared to, I don't know if it's too much time, but we spent a lot of time playing basketball.

What were your thoughts on that USUSA game versus Belgium?

Did you see that?

6:23

USA versus Belgium.

The one that they got.

Knocked down starts to yes, yeah, OK, USA, Belgium, That was a big deal because we had had a player thrown out, right, due to a red card.

6:39

We had a president who'd stepped in, which I don't think he should have, and it didn't make a difference.

Balagan wasn't able to score.

Belgium was able to score and score.

And OK, I love my nation.

6:57

I'm glad for us to do as well as we can, but Belgium was the better team, yeah.

And they won that game fair and square.

And afterwards they were saying, you know, reverse that.

Right, reverse the win.

And and and I think they.

We should have tried to reverse the win.

7:13

We should have had a rematch, a redo, right?

I will say that I think US didn't show up the way they could have, and I think it's partly that they had a lot of confidence from doing well.

And then I think that part way through that game, they realized this is tough.

And then they realized we may not win.

7:30

And then they started losing confidence and they weren't playing the way that they.

Could.

Yeah.

And it'd be fun if we got together to be sports analysts and gave our insights.

But what's even more interesting is your book and particularly your history with soccer.

7:46

You said when you were a kid you started playing soccer in Ethiopia.

Is that right?

Yeah.

And you learned the slide tackle.

Why'd you do that?

Well.

I was only 7 years old.

I was at a boarding school in Addis Ababa.

I would play with these guys who are older, they wouldn't even let me on some of the time and they would keep the ball all the time because I wasn't as skilled basically and I wanted the ball.

8:10

Everybody wants the ball.

So I finally figured out if I went down on my butt and put my leg out, I might swipe it away.

And it worked.

I couldn't keep it, but I could get it.

And now you're a defensive menace because you know how to do exactly right.

8:27

So something about my experience with soccer is no matter where I've been in life, ever since I started playing like 5 or 6 in Oklahoma, friends I got from soccer, learning how to talk to people I got from soccer.

I go to college and then I put together a Football League and I'm on the field with 2015 different countries at the same time.

8:49

We may not be able to speak the same language, but we do recognize like, hey, that was a bad foul or like the ball was out or like I'm right here, pass it to me.

Next time.

Soccer's one of the coolest vehicles to cross language barriers or generational divides.

9:07

And whenever I look at your book, that was the first thing I thought of was like, yes, soccer's a unifier.

Absolutely.

That's been my experience my whole life and I'm an old guy now and I'm still going out, got a foot that's giving me some trouble, but I'm really enjoying it to this day.

9:24

Because you're saying we may not speak the same language, but I would say if you play soccer, you do speak the same language.

It is a language.

So if you can play it just well enough, then you can walk onto a field with guys who are from very different backgrounds and you can end up actually friends in the end, or enemies.

9:46

But more likely I, because I find it a very welcoming atmosphere, especially at a pickup level where guys are like, yeah, come on out.

And that's been a privilege to have that kind of encounter over and over.

10:03

I mean, I could tell you about some of them, but.

Yeah, and I definitely want to know I like.

But looking back over here, we see we have what do we have?

We have 1214 people right here.

We have the guy who just kicked the balls from Mexico.

Raul's about to get the ball here.

10:20

Raul's about.

To get the ball and Raul is I don't know how I think.

Maybe Mexico and.

He he's Mexican.

He's he's.

Not as old as me, but he's getting close, right?

So we have a Mexican who just passed the ball to a Colombian who just passed the ball to an Ecuadorian.

10:37

It's it's wild.

That's what I love about soccer.

So what have been some of your most unexpected friendships that you've developed through soccer?

Well, I've got a chapter in the book because actually, I know I shouldn't be saying this, but I play in Manhattan at K State as well as here at KU We.

10:54

Acceptable, yeah.

So over at K State, when I play there, a couple of us have started to actually have coffee afterwards and hang out.

And I've got a chapter now about two guys from that group because I find their past stories fascinating.

11:14

Oscar, his parents were from El Salvador.

They came here and we're just working as janitors at K State.

And he now is a business coach.

And so his trajectory is pretty amazing.

11:29

But he talks about how he learned from his parents that you can be generous no matter what you have.

And they didn't have a lot, but they were always helping other people, especially people who came from South of the border At their time, there were very few here.

11:45

There are more now.

And he, when he gets on the field, he hustles his butt off.

And he's now, he's about 50, but he's really making things happen on the field.

Then there is Song, who is getting even closer to my age.

12:02

These are two older guys on and, and we have fun because sometimes with my brother and them, we add up how many years we represent.

And when we beat some guys who are teenagers or 20s, we'll say, what do you expect?

I mean, we got 300 years of experience here on the field.

12:20

But Song is from Korea, and he came against his father's wishes to the US because he wanted to get out from under his father's shadow.

He was a policeman who wanted his son to be a policeman.

Song now runs a restaurant and is an entrepreneur, but he had a tough go of it.

12:39

He was in Colorado going to Business School, and he was having to mow lawns at a mall to make money.

And he was sleeping on a bench for a while and in a Chinese restaurant where he was a waiter.

And if you go all the way back, he had served in the military, as you have to do in Korea.

12:56

And he was a sniper in the DMZ, the Demilitarized Zone, where he's out there in a foxhole, crawling in, crawling out.

And it was not an easy life.

But it's fun to know this guy.

And he's got a great sense of humor.

13:12

It's like playing with Charlie Chaplin.

He's very physical about his humor.

He was.

A sniper and now he's playing soccer with you in Manhattan, KS.

And he shoots like a sniper.

We always say that watch out 'cause he he can aim.

13:28

That's so cool.

I remember in college I was OK.

I I think generally I'm OK at soccer.

I'm not going to be the best on the field, but I'm also not going to be the worst.

And I matched up against a few guys who are from the Ivory Coast, and I was like, OK, cool.

13:46

You know, I was talking to him.

But whenever we started playing, it was different.

They manhandled me in a way where they weren't fouling.

Yeah, they were still controlling the game, But the ref never blew his whistle.

And I remember looking at the ref like, come on, like, please give me something.

14:03

But I learned from them how to play soccer in a way to where you are still really strong with the ball and they have really good Shields and all this jazz, but it's not a foul.

And then I moved to North Carolina and I'm playing soccer there, and I start playing with people who played in North Carolina and Florida.

14:23

And over there it was a lot of passing and these long balls.

And then I come over here and we have a lot of people who, like you said, are from South, from the border, South of the border.

And it's flair, right?

So it's all these different styles come together.

And then you got me, this kid from Oklahoma, and I'm mixing them all together playing a game.

14:41

So it's a perfect illustration of the mix and melting pot of different cultures.

Very true.

Pardon the Interruption, but I wanted to take a quick moment to thank our sponsors.

This podcast episode was brought to you by me.

14:57

Yeah, I'm sponsoring my own podcast.

Really, really cool sponsor.

I have not done a in person conversation on the Talk People podcast in over a year now.

And honestly, it's getting me thinking a little bit more because the person who enjoyed my conversations the most was my mom.

15:17

And this is the first one where she's not around anymore.

She passed away in January and she loved listening to the conversations.

So my sponsorship for this episode is for you to reach out to somebody, one of your loved ones today and just tell them you are thinking of them and be thoughtful about something you enjoy about them.

15:50

I during this conversation thought about that a lot.

And Tim, really cool guy is sitting down with him, being able to talk with him.

He got cooler by the minute.

So I hope you enjoy his book.

16:05

Go check his book out and I will get you back to the rest of the conversation.

But just remember, our loved ones are rooting for you, and I want to make sure that you let them know you are rooting for them.

16:23

All right, let's get back to the conversation.

I think my experience being in Africa, primarily as a kid, is that there's a culture of soccer in that area that'll be different than the culture of soccer in Germany, for instance.

16:40

It's very different.

So one of the things that is my theory is that in Ethiopia, Kenya, Sudan, places where I've lived, kids would actually make their own ball out of plastic bags that they'd stuffed together and they'd wrap twine around it and that little ball would be out on a pockmarked dirt field.

16:59

It's not easy to control.

It's uneven surfaces.

You'd better get really agile about controlling that ball.

And so they developed foot skills that a lot of American kids wouldn't develop on a very smooth surface with a regulation ball.

17:17

And the other thing that happens is I think once they do have a regulation ball, it's not just about scoring, it's about keeping the ball 'cause you want to have time with the ball.

So you get guys who become phenomenal dribblers.

17:32

It can be a problem because they forget the pass.

And so I've played with guys and I'm like, that's great, but you should have given it to somebody else.

Like no.

One, no one's going to want to play with you like it's cool.

The ball retention, the ball hogs, as we say.

So this book is a collection of stories.

17:50

Yeah.

Starting from and ending where?

What's the ARC of the book?

Well, I start with myself in this boarding school in Africa, and I continue kind of in a chronological fashion about my own stories.

18:07

For instance, when I was in college, no past college, I did coach in college for kids, and I write about that.

But when I came back to Chicago to live there afterwards, I ended up on a Mexican American team.

I was given the name Alejandro and a fake ID because I wasn't supposed to be on the team.

18:28

There you go.

But I tell that kind of story and then I go on until I get to this age where I have no song and I know Oscar and I'm playing here in the area.

But I also tell stories that are journalistic ones kind of outside the box of my own experience because I want to show the cross cultural nature of the game.

18:49

So one of them's about, for instance, the Afghan women's national team in Afghanistan, which disappeared as soon as the Taliban took over again and we left Afghanistan.

And that story's very dramatic because these women loved soccer.

19:09

They'd become really good at it, and suddenly they couldn't play it.

They had to go underground and they wanted to play.

So the whole team fled the country and they had to do it in a secret way.

AUS Marine was helping them, a woman who had played soccer and coached and they were supposed to have a secret word and say it to a guard at the airport.

19:31

They did.

He didn't know the word.

They were getting hit with rifle butts and trying to move to other areas.

They went to another gate.

A soldier brought let them in but he was Australian.

They ended up on a plane that flew to Australia and they are still living in Australia.

19:50

Wow and.

That's a an amazing story where I quote them saying we're going to play and even if we have to be in Australia, we're going to figure out how to play and we want to represent our nation, but we're going to play.

20:06

Yeah, you know.

So they're still competing.

They.

Are they're playing in leagues in Australia?

They were hoping maybe they could join the Australian team if necessary.

That's miraculous.

What a wild story.

I wonder.

20:22

It just makes you wonder all of the other stories.

I guess this is a good book to get a few of them you got to.

Read the book.

Yeah, right.

To get all of the other stories, but what is your most recent impactful story whenever it comes to soccer I.

20:41

Have you know, because I'm playing here it KU on the on a field there.

I've really enjoyed getting to know coach Omar, who coaches youth in the area and it's from Senegal.

20:58

And I eventually was like, this guy is so good and he plays like a coach, which I really respect.

What I mean by that is he's not going to keep the ball and only give it to guys that he trusts who are good friends of his.

21:14

He's going to work the whole field, help everyone to be involved.

And he has a very good demeanor.

So I as eventually like, hey, could I talk to you about your background?

And I ended up getting his full story and writing it into the book.

21:31

It's an amazing story of a young man who decides he wants to come to the United States.

He thought he was going to be a pilot.

He liked the uniform.

But then he was like, I don't know if that's the thing.

And when he first came here, it was really difficult.

21:49

He got to New York City, and he thought he could take a bus to KU because, you know, Senegal is not as big as the United States.

And it was very cold.

And he arrived and the hotel guy wouldn't let him stay because he needed to pay with cash not.

And finally he was thinking, I don't know if I can do this.

22:09

But when he went and sat at his first orientation class, there were two guys who looked kind of similar.

And one of them spoke Wolof, which was his native tongue.

And he felt, I can do this.

And then he walked by a field and there were guys playing soccer and he said, hey, can I join you?

22:27

And that was it, He was in.

That's so cool.

I can only imagine the culture shot in a million and one ways.

The freezing temperatures in New York, being New York and then realizing it's a what, 20 something hour drive in a car, You know, not even to mention a bus stop and all of the different stops you have to take whenever you collect stories.

22:53

I love stories.

You know, I think getting into podcasting, you have to have an appreciation for story.

Whenever you get into storytelling, how do you, there's storytelling within, there's story catching or being able to capture all of the stories.

23:09

How do you find a good story, and how do you gather good stories?

I think that stories are going to be most powerful if they somehow touch me emotionally.

I can be smart and write something that's rationally fascinating, but it's not going to have the same impact as something that I feel.

23:32

And so some of these immigrant stories that I'm talking about, they they impact me.

Maybe it's somewhat because of my background having lived in other cultures and here, but I think they touch everybody if you really sit down and listen to the story of this nature.

So that's that's where I find kind of raw material that I want to work with.

23:53

The other thing is with this book, it's a little different.

Writing's not easy.

It can feel like ditch digging at times, frankly, that you have to sit down, put your butt on the chair and write and then you can always make it better.

And I, I know how to do that.

24:10

So I revise, I revise, I revise.

But this book, one of the differences, I started thinking, I've published 7 books all together and I and this time I was like, I just want to write stuff for myself for a while.

And I wrote a little piece about my first experience that slide tackle out there on the field and I was having fun.

24:31

It wasn't ditch digging.

And I wrote another one and another one, and I didn't think of it as a book, but then I started realizing there's a book here.

And so my own pleasure around the stories I was telling carried me on into a full book.

24:48

Is this the first book you've written of this structure where it's a collection of stories?

No, not really.

A book prior to it was all stories about being a father and sons and the relationship between the two and how it changes over time because you start with a toddler and you got to give security to the child.

25:13

And I would find little stories that would represent that.

But you know, eventually you got a teenager who's like dad back off.

And I would try to represent that, looking at my own experience as a teenager, my son's experience as a teenager, even my father, and trying to just track the arc of that relational experience.

25:37

That's cool.

Yeah.

Because I feel like you and I are in interesting positions because I just had a son and he's not even a year old yet.

And.

Then does he have a jersey yet?

He.

Has a What does he have?

He has the wrong jerseys, he has baseball jerseys, he has things like that got.

25:56

To get him a soccer, but he.

Does have multiple soccer?

Messy, messy Jersey the.

Hard part with jerseys is you know they're going to outgrow them, right?

But he definitely needs one.

But what's interesting is, you know, I just had a son and then I just turned 31, which is in between your sons, right?

26:13

So it is fascinating seeing the different generations of fatherhood, right?

And the because right now I'm doing the providing security.

You're you're world's change and I would think, I mean, suddenly you're seeing it from another angle, 'cause you've always been the kid.

26:31

Now it's like, oh shit, I'm the I'm, I'm the guy, yeah.

Especially 'cause I'm the baby, two of four siblings.

So I always had people who were taking care of me.

And then now for the first time, I got little George.

But we call him King George because really he's calling the shots, right, with no debate or argument.

26:49

So fatherhood has been the biggest lesson of my life in the past ten months without competition, right?

Yeah.

Even doing all this stuff and all my work and all this stuff and you name it, it's like, OK, figuring out how to take care of that baby or even connect with the baby I've.

27:08

Joked that getting married's not easy.

I mean it.

We like to do it, we do it, but having a child is a lot more of a life changer, I think, than than marriage.

I do too.

Like we haven't hacked the have a sitter yet, so our social life is definitely like that.

27:30

But I see friends who maybe have a kid a year older or a little bit or even our age, but they have hacked the whole sitter thing.

So they're like, Oh yeah, we'll be there.

Let us just get our sitter.

So I think that's going to be the next evolution is being able to find some reliable people.

27:47

And then I could still go out in the afternoon and evening.

Yeah.

You need to be able to step out the door eventually, right?

Yeah, we haven't gone on a date yet.

You know, there's all the things, right?

So it's like, OK, let's, let's make sure.

But I'll have to check out that book on fatherhood, too, because, hey, I am a rookie when it comes to that.

28:06

I've been in the league less than a year, Yeah.

It's it's called climbing lessons and it's got climbing lessons all the way through it because I use those as kind of a, an archetype.

Yeah, that's.

28:22

Smart So you have the soccer book, you have the fatherhood book and you have a few other books, but something I like about you, and I've already gathered this is you're always working towards the next thing, right?

And you just got back on a trip from another book you have in your mind.

28:39

I don't know how much you want to share.

I don't know the author world if this is like trade secrets or not top.

Secret.

Yeah, it's a time travel story, a novel.

So it's fiction, not nonfiction.

And I've had a collection of short stories in a novel in the past.

28:56

But no, I don't want to get into it a whole lot.

But it has somebody who ends up in the Midwest, in the Prairie states in 1200 AD.

And so I was up in Iowa trying to learn about the Iowa people who lived in northeast Iowa on the Mississippi.

29:18

And I put a kayak into the river and on the Mississippi so I could kind of feel that a little bit more.

And I talked to an archaeologist about the effigy mounds, which are fascinating up there.

The native people would build mounds that were in the shape of animals, so 100 feet long, a Big Bear or a big bird that was flying with its wings out.

29:41

And I was trying to learn about the culture of that time.

That's cool.

I I admire your respect for the storytelling and to capture the essence of what you were trying to write about, actually going there talking to people.

Did someone teach you that, or did that just come naturally too?

30:00

The, the cultural side of it is there again, you know, because even though it's fiction and it's set in the past, historical past, I do want to be as authentic as possible about life for another culture.

30:15

People who were living there way before any of us white Europeans showed up.

And I think, you know, you look at our history, it can be pretty ugly actually, with regards to them being shoved off their land and not really understood fully.

30:32

So I, I, I've been learning and I valued what I've learned about Native American spirituality, about community and the fact that they had a whole civilization that we shouldn't just brush aside.

30:51

It's so fascinating to me because I think many people will write a book to write the book, but I think you go a little one step further and actually investigate what's going on.

It's the anthropologist in you or whatever.

Yeah, you're also a writing coach.

31:08

I saw that and I'd love your coaching philosophy on how to help other people write.

Oh boy, there's there's a lot to that.

One of the things I've learned because I taught creative writing for 20 years at a college level, is that every person is unique and they bring their own game to the writing.

31:34

I've watched some teachers overrule that and say this is what you should write.

And I think the main thing is to help the person realize how they best would write instead of saying this is how I do it and you ought to be doing it the same way.

31:55

So helping them to find that voice that is uniquely theirs.

If a person's very visual, then description's going to be a a strength and they should bring it to the game.

But maybe they aren't.

32:11

Maybe they're very oral dialogue.

Go for it, because you're going to hear it and know how to work it in a way that maybe I can't.

Yeah.

That kind of thing, I think, is fundamental to coaching somebody and hearing the story they're trying to tell and saying, OK, how can I help them tell that story, even if, frankly, sometimes I disagree with it.

32:37

Or if it's a bad story, is that the case ever like, well there?

Are bad stories and I also think you shouldn't sidestep that.

So sometimes there is the hard thing that you have to say.

This isn't working the way that it could.

32:53

Now can I help you make it work better?

You know, I I want to write, I want to write a book.

I want to publish a book.

And it's always fun for me to get together with people like you who have done it again and again and again, have done it multiple times.

And I've spent so much time in writing.

33:10

And I'll admit I haven't, I haven't been digging the trench.

I haven't been getting in there and putting words on the paper.

But it's encouraging to hear you say, hey, you can always make it better you.

Can just put the.

Words out there, but.

33:26

That's more sitting on the chair and working, but that that can be that can be in that part of writing can be very enjoyable.

Actually, the first draft is the hardest because you know you're trying to find this material and figure out how it fits in.

33:44

But when you go back to it, it's easier and you can make it better.

And the other thing is, if you're blocked, don't be thinking how is it all going to be built?

Just start writing what is most exciting to you so that you start and you get something out and that will lead to writing more.

34:04

Yeah, that's that's what I need to think about.

Write what's most exciting to me.

And sometimes I don't know if you felt this way, but sometimes I'll think I have a lot more that I could learn and more experience together.

So maybe I should hold off on the book, but I don't think that that is the best narrative because I could always write another one.

34:27

And yeah, who's to say anybody's going to read my first one?

Yeah, you have to start.

Let's just start.

The.

Essay is a form that I write in a lot In the personal essay sense, like memoir, personal experience, an essay actually means an attempt.

34:49

It doesn't mean perfect it's an attempt.

It's a try, it's a test.

I'm testing something when I write an essay, so you have to see it that way and it's valid for anyone to make an attempt at saying this is what I perceive I.

35:07

Like that, I think more people than we would expect or I would expect in particular are listening or watching this podcast and they want to write a book.

So that encourages me to write an essay and to give an attempt, and then I can always give it more layers and well, the.

35:27

Other thing is a book's really big and it takes a long time.

So write something short.

An essay is a step towards something larger.

Well, we've done quite well.

We've yet to get hit with the.

Ball.

I know they haven't.

Is anybody scoring?

35:43

I think.

I think they're being gentle with us.

I've seen a couple people over here and I think they're like lightly kicking it.

But it will be interesting watching this back.

So we have the Boundless game.

People can get it on anywhere.

They get books, yeah.

It it's on Amazon if you want to get it there.

36:01

The press is the University Press of Kent, University Press of Kansas, and it actually is housed here in Lawrence, but represents the whole state and you can get it through them as well if you go to their website and it would be at bookstores.

36:16

That's awesome.

OK, well, thanks for listening to the Talk to People podcast.

I will put Tim's information down below.

Any parting messages, my friend?

Play soccer.

Play.

Soccer all right and right.

36:33

About your experience, right?

Write about the thing that excites you, dig the trench, write the essay, make the attempt, and then if you need help, Tim will coach you for a very generous fee, my friends.

OK, well remember life is better when you talk to people and I'll see you next time.