Does Bait Color Actually Matter to the Fish? (ft. John Crews)

In this episode, we sit down with professional bass angler and Missile Baits owner John Crews to talk bass fishing, bait design, lure color selection, and the future of the fishing industry. John breaks down how he chooses colors for Missile Baits, what makes certain soft plastic colors stand out, his hot takes on the current bass fishing industry, and which anglers he believes are shaping the future of bass fishing. If you love bass fishing, tournament fishing, bait design, and behind-the-scenes conversations with top pros, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Dude, my dad is out on Chickamauga cracking their ass right now. No way. Yeah, my dad sucks at free thing. I sent him to a plate. Oh my dude, it's perfect though. All he knows how to do is soak a trickworm. It doesn't do anything. I'm like, that's perfect for Chickamauga. He's like, dialed in.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Man is dialed in.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Dialed in. Uh all right, you good?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

All right. All right. Welcome everyone to the Sirius Angler Podcast, where as always, our main course for you will be talking and hopefully teaching you more about bass fishing. We are joined with Idaho's finest, Mr. Adam Deakin. And as always, I'm your host, Bailey Igbread. And Dek, Derb week. Well, actually, what this gets posted is post-durb week.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Post herb week. We're sitting with a sweet trophy. That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

That would be that would be pretty sick. We'll have to add a a section to this post post uh podcast if if all goes to plan. But uh it is a day before your derb when we're recording this. Um obviously these aren't live or anything like that, but uh we have a wicked show, Mr. John Cruz coming up. But uh you got some big things on the docket for this weekend, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, man, excited. Uh Brownley Reservoir Super 60. Um man, I am excited. Just haven't haven't uh been obviously on it for 30 days off limits. No idea we've got a lot of weather coming. I'm intrigued to see what that does. Like crazy, crazy weather coming. Um, it's been so stable and it's just absolutely turning into a stormy weekend. So uh curious to see what that does to everything, make a little interesting out there, uh running the boat around and rain gear, etc. Yeah, big. Um, so we'll see how it all goes. But man, I'm looking forward to it. And uh it feels like it's been a minute since we fished a big derb and and uh we're we're hopping in one. The boys are at the house. We got uh Tyler Madden and uh his dad JD are here, and then Time Man roll is rolling through uh tonight after our meeting. So should be uh should be a fun time.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Heck yeah. Does uh does Brownley get big? Like do you have to worry about waves and all that stuff when you're out there?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

It can depends on the way the wind blows. Um it's really big from a length standpoint. I want to say it's like 60 miles long or something. Um but it's pretty narrow. So if it's blowing, obviously, I guess mostly east to west, it doesn't really matter, but if it's blowing north or south, like that's a lot of distance for waves to pick up.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

So kind of finger leg ish then very just you got it kind of like a pencil, straight down the pipe. Yeah. All right. Well, what's your predictions for this one in regards to like weight? Like, what's what's an average fish look like? What do you think? You're are you going for size? Are you going for numbers with this format?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Good question, man. Uh this is good because it's a post after, but uh I think like you know, I think that it is a I would have said I haven't spent a ton of time on this body of water. Like for being as close as it is to me, I'm not, you know, I'm I didn't grow up in Idaho. Some of these guys did and have like been there their entire lives. I've spent a couple summers on the place, a couple days a year, and then this year I spent four or five days pre-practicing. Um, the weights were way better this spring than it has been in a long time. Like there was consistent 20 pound bags uh winning, and and then it did not drop off. Like there was an 80-something boat tournament, and I want to say like there was 50 plus boats that had over 16 pounds. So it was it was very, very consistent um in that like 16 to 21 or something. There's largemouth and smallmouth. Um the water is up, so I do think some largemouth will get weighed in and some some potentially big ones. I think that the smallmouth will be way smaller than they were this spring, and I think they spread out and go into rivers and do all kinds of weird smallmouth things. And so I think that it'll actually be like numbers for smallmouth. I think that you can still catch a random big one anywhere, a smallmouth. But I think the weights will be classic post-spawny. I would have said last year, like you might be okay catching 12 to 13 to make it to the final day. Now I would say those weights, it's not gonna be, you know, 16 to 20. But I think, I think, you know, without largemouth, I'm saying, I think you're gonna need 15 plus, I would think, based on just how good it was this spring. And then numbers-wise, like there's a lot of little smallmouth in there. So like I think the numbers side will will run up the scoreboard uh quite a bit. So I think I don't know exactly how I'm gonna play it. I think I'm gonna go for numbers, but I think everyone else is gonna be doing that. So part of me is like, might go lock something with a for greenfish in my hand. I just don't know if you can do that for three days. Like, that's the part I struggle with. Like, I think one day you can go do that. But uh, for three days, I think that would be there's just not enough of them.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

It'll be interesting how it plays out, and we'll run it back on then the following week's show to see how check in. Yeah, see how that how that plan worked for you. But uh dude, uh a great show today with John Cruz. John is an awesome guest. Uh, you we've had him on, well, I shouldn't say we you have had him on uh history for business from the bass boat shows, um, and just very, very well spoken and dropped a lot of juice, a lot of nuggets, a lot of clipworthy uh of conversations with him. And uh before we get into that, what's um what's been a little bit of uh industry buzz, a little bit of business from the bass boat?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, man. Um, I mean, the biggest thing, right? And we talked about it some today, ever is on everyone's mind is iCast, right? Like, so again, business from the Bass Boat section brought to you by our friends over at Rec Lending, the dudes. If uh if you are in the market for uh a new boat right now, want a second opinion, a want a first opinion, want an opinion on the financing, check on in with those guys, they will get you squared away. But, anyways, iCast man, right? Always new stuff coming. Um a new reel as a part to this. That's really, really neat. I think the the biggest thing that iCast for me is it gets a little bit annoying, the consistent, you know, copycatting, etc., that sort of thing that happens. Yeah. We'll we'll probably see that a lot, but it just is still such an exciting time. Um stuff that I like, I like when stuff is hidden, if that makes sense. Like I get a little bit annoyed with uh the long-term uh or the or or how stuff just gets released so early for for iCast. I get why people do that, but I like when it gets unveiled. Like I think that that's a cool thing when you see new stuff come out, especially the way the bait market seems to trend nowadays. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, like you're saying you you see a new bait get released, but you learn that you gotta wait four months to get your hands on that bait. That's yeah, that's annoying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think any kids because us anglers in nature, we're impatient. Uh, we want it, we want it now. Uh, although I think that's human nature, not just angler nature. Um, yeah, a lot of new stuff coming. Uh seeing a little bit of hints. You guys will get a little bit of a preview of what's to come from missile baits on this show with John. Uh so stay tuned for that. But uh um anything else we have from the Bass Boat Wise?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Um I think you've got mentioned the ASA Sportfish Restoration Fund. I don't know much there. What do you have there?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Uh it was one of the updates we're seeing that they're potentially getting more budget to it. Um, we did some uh a little bit more research and that that's what's been like providing a lot of the uh budget to um the wildlife resource agency as a nation, but also statewide uh or for per state as well. So it looks like there's that is being supported. So nothing too uh intricate on that, but a cool little update for folks that that's something at least that government is putting some funds behind now, which at one point I know I think it was about a year ago, that we were kind of worried because they were pulling a lot of funding for different things, where now that's being added back to the docket of things to support. Um, so it's good there for us. Um, but if we have nothing else, we got some Omnia fishing news for folks. Uh, if you go to Omnia Omnia's homepage right now, the first thing you see, we talk about a little bit in the show. The Berkeley Chop Block is on the front page. Wonder why. Um, it talks about how tournaments can uh influence tackle sales, and uh there's a reason why it's in the the front of the page is because more people are ordering it because as a popular item. Um so if you guys seen Hunter Shryak, put that beat down on with the chop block, you can go get yourself some. Um we will be having a new lure lab show here soon, featuring some soft swim baits, soft glide baits, and that will be one that we talk about. And Hunter is featured in that one as well, gives his two cents. Um, and then some new arrivals. If you guys, again, I preach this all the time, but if you're not updating the new arrival stuff, this is if you're a tackle nerd or you want to stay on the trend of things and want to get stuff before it's gone. I'm actively refreshing Omnia and other pages as well on the daily. I literally have an alarm on my phone to go and refresh just to make sure I'm I'm there in my wallets if they're ready. Uh it's not the most greatest thing for your budget, but hey, you got the if you have the means to do it. Um, there's some new Ryugi hooks uh on Omnia Fishing, cast again weights, which I've seen the the new frag weight they added is uh one that people have been using uh for their Koiky setup if they're running a drop shot hook on that setup. Um some new plastics from bottom up uh as well as mega bass, the new Evolution Blade Runner box is now on Omnia. So that's the new best box for running spinnerbaits, buzz baits, and then a uh new urchin bait shocker. Uh Arsenal's had to put that on there. Uh but I only mentioned that because there's three million urchin baits, but Arsenal's a fairly reputable brand and looks like a decent one with decent sizes. So it feels like everyone's just trying to find stock of them in some shape or fashion. But head over to OmniFishing. You guys always can use our code series10. Save yourself 10% off. Deke, I think without further ado, let's get into today's episode with Mr. John Cruz.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Rock and roll.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

All right, folks. We're joined by, as he says, Johnny Missile. Here is what we have here on our on our local stream. But uh, Mr. John Cruise, Mr. Missile Bates himself. John, how are we doing, man?

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Doing well, man. I appreciate you guys having me on. I think it's uh I think it's cool what you guys are doing with the with the pod and and uh getting all technical on the on the stuff that that really matters is stuff that I love.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Heck yeah. Yeah, we're we're kind of all over the place now, but uh we absolutely love every second of it. That's for dang sure. Yeah, appreciate the compliment, man. Yeah, no. It this has got to be, I would imagine for you there there is no such thing as downtime, but I imagine that is heightened uh this time of year with ICAS coming up late in the derb season. Uh, I'm sure sleep is a as a minimum for you this time of year.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah, it's all it's all good, man. Yeah, the tournaments, man, that's that's kind of like the least amount of sleep that you get is uh is functioning on five and six hours of sleep after after long days of practice, especially in the summer. And you know, when you start off the season, the days are relatively short, and uh, and actually you get you get pretty decent amounts of sleep, but but uh this time of year, man, you know, like fishing on the Pasca tank, we had you know 14 plus hour practice days, and uh those nights get real short. So uh so yeah, sleeping in my own bed and uh kind of setting my own time frames is is uh it's pretty nice, even though it's it's uh you know it's there's something going on every day here here at the office getting ready, as you said, getting ready for iCast and and then uh all the implementation of all the new stuff after that.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah. I and I think you know, you've always been big on fitness and et cetera, but I also appreciate being at home, working, etc., the routine side, like yeah, being able to just lock into a routine because you're right, when you're on the road, it's just it's difficult to uh to do catch up on sleep, etc.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

It really is. You know, we you know the the tournaments themselves are are an endurance uh activity, and it's like running a half marathon every day. So you don't run a half marathon and then go to the gym and lift weights. Like that's just not it's it's not productive for either activity. So, you know, lifting and and doing that kind of thing while you're on the road fishing and practicing and and competing, it's not it's not productive for for either one. And uh, I'm not 22 years old anymore, so I can't I did that honestly. Uh some of some of the times early in my career uh practice days, I would go by the gym and and uh get like a quick half hour, hour workout, and then and then go out there and practice for 12, 14 hours. And I I must have had a screw loose because physically I can't do that anymore. Dude's saying.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Deeke and I were talking about that a couple shows ago where it's like there's this weird thing for us, uh, us anglers that like to travel and like to fish, but also have a lot of stuff going on where it's like when you're at home, you're just itching to leave to go to the next derb, the next trip. But then when as soon as you're on the trip, you get your first business call and you're like, oh shoot, I gotta get home and back to the routine. And it's just like a constant flow of that. Where it's just never right, it's always restless. But I gotta imagine your practice days are full of business calls.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

It's they're not too bad. You know, like my uh my team here at Missile, they're they're awesome. They are they are so good, they they know me so well, they know how I want to handle most situations, and they just and they just do it, they just get it done. And it it's really good to be able to go and really focus. Every once in a while I'll get a call or a text. Um, you know, a lot of times it's like, hey, can you check the bank account and make sure that this this uh payment came in or something to that effect? It's you know, usually something real simple, it's not anything super complex or or complicated. So that's uh that that's a good part of having a good team.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah. Is that I mean, really starting this from the ground up, I would love to hear your thought process on learning to delegate and and be able to step away and and do those sorts of things. I mean, that's something I think that a lot of type A people building something struggle with, right? Like how how was that process over time for you and and what steps and did you take along the way to learn that?

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Yeah, that that it that goes back to when I started the company to begin with. That I was fishing professionally for 10 plus years before I started missile baits. So that was like the the steady. Like I didn't want to change that. So then I when I started missile, I had to set up missile so that it could be rolling when I'm home or when I'm away. It had to like it had to be consistently rolling, like orders had to be taken, um, you know, orders had to ship out, all that kind of stuff had to happen, whether I'm there or not. So that so from day one, that's the way I set it up. And really it was kind of kind of lucky that I set it that up that way because it was much easier to scale the business to grow once it was initially set up like that, versus if I was doing everything and I was shipping out all the orders and I was taking all the phone calls, and then I had to add people, that would I think that would have been a lot harder to to do. And then also my wife uh at the time I started Missile, she was raising our kids and was not working. And I didn't I didn't want her to work for the business because when I was uh home and let's say we went on vacation, if she was working for the business, well then initially that would be like 50% of our workforce would be gone when we went on a vacation together. Uh so I didn't I didn't want that. And uh and it it worked out great because we had an office office manager to begin with, and then my buddy Shannon was the the IT everything else guy initially for the first 10 years. And um, man, they they really helped get get things off the ground. And then, you know, we've moved locations, go into a bigger building, added more people, um, all that kind of stuff. So it's it's kind of really grown from there, and we've uh got some new faces in here, and it just uh it keeps it fun and keeps it new to have a to have a good team. Everybody cares about everybody. It's it's it's good that we have one of those little small groups.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Yeah, that has to give you some peace of mind, especially when you're on the road so much for nine plus weeks out of the year.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yeah, you know, with the with the classic is 10 tournaments this year, and then uh I don't know if I'll have any other you know one-off tournaments this fall. Hopefully, I mean I pay my money for that ultimate angler deal. I got to kick ass in one of these last two elite series to to try to qualify for that thing. Uh, but yeah, there's a couple little opportunities this fall for some for some more fishing, which is uh which would be fun. I love I love fishing kind of one-off tournaments. It kind of gives you a different perspective because it's like, hey, what if you bomb, no big deal, there's no points, there's no permanent record, there's no nothing. If you do well, it's it's it gives you more confidence in in being able to incorporate things into your tournaments the the you know the following year.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah. What does it look at home for you? Are you hopping in Tuesday, Thursday nighters and stuff, or is it strictly just elite derbs for you?

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Um no, it for the most part it is. Uh, a couple years ago, me and my one of my buddies here at home, Hunter, we fished uh a local team trail, and and I wanted to fish that local team trail again, but then he cut it back to only two tournaments. Uh so he's gonna have one this fall. I may fish that one. We had one this spring. I fished it with my stepson Noah. That's the first time we'd fished a tournament together in a couple years. Uh, but that that was uh that was a lot of fun. We had like 15 pounds and just just missed the money. Uh, but it was cool because I hadn't hadn't been on the water in three or four months. So it was uh on you know our home homebody Smith Mountain. But uh it's it was a lot of fun. I love fishing local stuff. I just I don't fish the like the wildcat ones anymore. Uh just because I, you know, with the family and kids and all that kind of stuff, it's uh it's a little bit a little bit harder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Now, if if Bassmaster gives you the call that you're in that next Tuesday night or deal that they put on and you get to pick your teammate, who's your first call? Who's your draft pick?

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Man, that's that's tough. Um, those guys had had kind of a good deal because they they didn't have to pick them, like the the fans picked them, so they didn't have to go through all that stress. But um I would have to fish somebody, I fish with somebody that compliments, you know, as far as if we're going with just the current elite series field, uh, I would go with somebody. I mean, my two roommates are probably my first two choices. Uh, I room with uh Ike and Ellie and with Brian Schmidt this year. I have fished with both of them in the boat. We complement each other very well. We both make similar decisions on the water. Um, I've probably fit I've fished more with Ike and Ellie, and I think our styles really, really mesh. Um, Schmidt has its his own deal. Um, but he he and I would probably fish well, either either one of those guys I would I would take in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, I I feel like both are amazing on camera. Of course, you get a different source of entertainment with with Ike, but Schmidt does a really good job at talking while he's on camera.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

So it's yeah, he he's he's best if uh he doesn't realize the camera's running and and somebody's just filming him. He if he's just talking, he's a he's a really good teacher. Um, sometimes he stiffens up when the the camera's rolling. He knows he's he knows it, but he's getting better. I mean, from from five years ago to now, he's he's even he's much better on camera. He just needs to say, All right, folks. Uh he just stops saying all right, folks, when he starts out every video, and I always bust his balls about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

All right, but he does always say that. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yeah, yeah, I bust his balls on that.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

That's funny. Well, shoot, you mean you get enough practice time how often he's been on camera, you get you get a little bit better than that.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Yeah, well, sometimes you don't realize you do things like that until somebody points them out, you know. And I because I always watch myself um and critique my my own video stuff and like why did I say that? That was stupid, you know. Something something along those lines.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Uh that's so it's great you bring that up because that is that is so true. And I a while ago, uh Rich Lindgren from Hella Bass pointed out something. I used to always say 100% like 50 times because he made a he sent me a text, he said, take a shot every time you say 100% in one of your episodes. And from then, I don't think I've said it till now on on podcast because of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Right. Yeah, yeah, I know some people that say absolutely all the time. Oh, hey, what do you think about that? Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. You know, this is it's like whatever your crutch is, until somebody points it out, then you don't you don't even realize you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

I love that. Uh well, dude, being obviously the owner of of missile baits, like over the time, obviously, you've gotten a lot of uh improvement on like industry insights, learning that from a business and entrepreneurship perspective. But has anything on the flop, like being in the owner of missile baits, helped you as an angler from whether it's uh bait selection, sneaky baits, the next trend, whatever have you, like where has that helped you on the fishing side? You need gear that works as hard as you do. That's why amped outdoors. Is the official power solution of the Sirius Angler podcast. From unmatched, battery nerd customer service to performance that thrives in extreme winter cold or summer heat keeps you on the water longer. Click the link in the show notes to get you powered up with Amped Outdoors. Now back to the show.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

I would say all of the above have happened. All of those, all those situations have happened. The biggest downfall from owning your own business is you don't get to fish as much in between the tournaments. To put what you've learned or put what you've been told or what you've figured out or what you've gotten into use. You know, to whether that's you know, newer glide baits, the koiki thing, the spike ball, like what hook you're using, live scope. Live scope was probably the biggest disadvantage from owning a bait company and not being able to spend that extra time on the water that that we really needed to spend as pro-anglers in order to level up and make sure that you're not on the backside of that trend. Um, I feel like I've been you know one to two years behind on the forward-facing sonar talent that's out there, those guys they get to go out there and spend, you know, 80 to 100 days a year more than I do on the water with forward-facing sonar over the last you know four or five years. Dude, that's that's a huge advantage for for those guys. And uh, even though I might know, you know, exactly the right baits, exactly the right, like just spending time with it and understanding what you're looking at, especially when you go to a place like the Pasca Tank, for example, had tons of trash fish in the place, uh, tons of gar, tons of uh like the carp and just all kind of other fish. I mean, I know what a bass looks like and I know what a crappie looks like, but you flood that screen with a hundred different fish, like everywhere you look, you're like, oh, let's look at the trees. Oh, there's a whole bunch of fish over there. And then you look at, oh, let's look in the middle of the channel. Oh, there's a bunch of fish out there. I mean, if you spend more, the more time you spend with that thing, and you get an extra, extra couple hundred days on the other guys, then you you just look right through all that and you see the bass. And I'm okay at it, but I'm telling you, there's guys that are a lot better because they've just spent so much more time with it.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

The tank you add dolphins to the mix, too.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Right. I didn't technically see any on forward facing sonar, uh, so I didn't get to, you know, but dude, I mean, just you know, mana rays or stingrays or whatever you call them, those things flying around there is there's all kinds of stuff in that fishery. It's really it's really wild. I mean, big, all kinds of big shad in there too. Gizzard shad, uh hickory shad, I'm sure some you know, mullet jumping around, all kinds of crazy saltwater fish. So you had you had to be able to figure out what was what. I mean, I kind of I'm telling you, I know what a bass looks like, but the more time you spend with it, the easier it is to just see it instantly.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

I couldn't agree more. Like, I think that is I'm curious if your thoughts on this, if it's been a trend. Um, I feel like and and it'd be interesting when you were coming up to the difference, but I just feel like there's more and more and more anglers now, particularly coming out of that college level and otherwise, that are fishing, you know, 200 plus days a year on the water uh consistently for multiple years, right? And that just equates to everything better, and particularly to LiveScope, the more you look at it, like that is exactly right. Like you're gonna just dial in those little intricacies differently. Was it that way when you were coming up as well? Or do you feel like there's more anglers spending more time on the water than ever before that are pro-anglers?

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Well, that you you you hit the the edge of the head of the nail of exactly my point to a lot of people when they start complaining about forward-facing sonar and all these kids and this, that, and the other. And I'm like, nah, dude, it's it it is totally different now than it was even 10 years ago. And what I mean by that is like, do you're right on the right track, Adam? I mean, do you like so close? Because in college now, if somebody goes to college, let's say they go to uh I don't know, Alabama to fish. So you can take all online classes and fish as many days as you want to fish. So you can do all of your online classes one to two days a week, get all your work done, and fish five days a week for the whole for the whole year. So you tell me that's 200 plus days a year that you have the ability to fish, and probably do. So in four years of college, you're gonna get to spend 800 days on the water. And what what is the trend now? It's live scope. So they're gonna be experts, of course, at live scope, but you spend 800 days in four years on the water fishing for bass, mostly in tournaments or practicing for tournaments, you're gonna get really good at other stuff too, not just forward-facing sonar. So you're getting these young guys coming out of college, whether it's you know, a few years back, you got your John Garrett, um, you know, you got some of the other guys, you know, a little bit younger now that are that are coming straight out of college and they're just lighting the world on fire. But dude, they didn't just back a boat in last week, man. They've they've spent, you know, probably a thousand days on the water in the last five years, you know, and then you count their high school career and them going around and doing that. I mean, you talked, I I've heard uh Fisher and Aya talk about it. That's exactly what he did in high school. He went online high school and fished 200 plus days a year all through high school. So of course he comes out at 19, 20 years old with the experience of a 30-year-old grown man as far as time on the water. And um there's a reason he's one of the best, if not the best, at forward facing sonar. He is really, really good with it. But dude, he can catch him other ways too. I mean, he's a he's a very good fisherman and very humble, nice kid. I like I like him a lot. So, you know, a lot of these new kids, man, a lot of a lot of the older guys are jealous, man. I think it's awesome. I think it's awesome. We got some really good dudes coming coming up uh right now. I mean, that whole surge squad, just awesome dudes. Awesome dudes, good fishermen.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah, I think it was Kumar's Bass Blaster recently, was uh I want to say it was Bank Shaw that they were talking about and basically mentioned exactly that of basically all online classes until it's last semester or something coming up, where he's like, I have two in-person classes. He's like, I'm really not looking forward forward to that because all his time is spent on the water. That's exactly it. Yeah, yeah, thank you. That dude, golly, uh heater, heater, man. It's and to your point, like how they can catch him without it. I remember tuning in to the live from from Grand, and he hadn't even used his forward facing period yet. He had five fish for I think like 23 and he was deep cranking. That's like right. They're gonna catch him regardless.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

I don't think it that and the uh the other to follow up on that, I think that the whole high school program and how it's spread across the whole country, and you've got you know, like Texas having tournament high school tournaments with three and four and five hundred boats. So what you're doing is you're exposing the tournament side of bass fishing to thousands and thousands more kids in the nation than have ever been exposed, in my opinion, to the sport. So when you expose a whole more people to a sport, what's gonna happen? The ones that are naturally good at it are gonna stick with it. So, you know, like your Banks Shaw when he's in ninth grade, if it you know, it just clicks for him and he just stomps everybody's ass, he's like this is fun. I'm gonna keep stomping people's ass next year. And then they just keep with it. And next thing you know, Banks Shaw is on the pro, you know, bass pro tour stomping their ass too. He's just yeah, like the you the more kids you expose, just like you know, baseball, little league, like that's why there's so many good American baseball players, is because the sport is exposed to almost everybody in the country, or every kid in the country that gets a chance to play it, and the really good ones just keep on going. Same thing is happening in bass fishing. The really, really good ones, because it's exposed to so many more, the select ones are all getting plucked out and then kind of like meeting at the top.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, man, dead on. I think that's it's a fantastic point. Like it really does a good job of describing the live scope trend versus just the amount of constant time guys are putting in. And if it was a different trend, it'd be the same sort of thing. So I think that's I think that's really why it's a good point. Well said.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so just to add on that question for you here, and I obviously don't expect you to have a factual answer because that's a hard number that we can't really, I think, reach right now. But yeah, as a business owner in the tackle industry, uh, I personally think the the sport of tournament fishing has exploded. But do you think the sport of just fishing, the people that we don't see at tournaments, the people that we see just the the biggest population of anglers, which is your once on a Saturday or Sunday going fishing, fishing from the bank, do you think that side has grown or is still growing?

SPEAKER_03 31:41

So, you know, if you look at license sales, which is the number you're talking about, fishing license sales, freshwater fishing license sales, over the course of time. Uh there was uh you know like at the ASA, they called it the leaky bucket, you know. So for um for some time they were just kind of trickling down, trickling down, still at a decent level. And then when COVID hit, that license sales shot through the roof. It went up like 30%. Like they've never, nothing's ever happened like that to where it shot up. Well, they retained a portion of those new anglers. You know, a lot of them cycled in and cycled out, but from what I saw, the trend was kind of going back down, but it was still above pre-COVID level, still above the 2019 levels of as far as all angler license sales and freshwater. But in I felt like, and it, and then the license sales backed it up in 20 uh 25. There was a there was another dip. Like, I don't know how else to explain it. And other than I think a lot of it had to do with the negativity around all the FFS BS. There were ever it was it was an excuse for people not to fish, you know, like whether they were uh experienced anglers on the back end kind of losing a little bit of interest, it was just easier to just take you like I throw my hat in because I can't compete with the Ford facing sonar, it's stupid, I hate it, it's cheating, it's spotlighting whatever, whatever, whatever. Like that was an excuse to get out of the sport. I think that trend has has flipped in 26 because you know, not only Bassmaster going to like a 50-50 split schedule. I see a lot of uh like local trails that'll either be okay, this division is is forward-facing sonar, this division is not forward-facing sonar. Um, that you know, these tournaments you can, you know, like MLF, you can use it for three hours a day. Like there's some sort of split. And I think that that trend across most tournaments has really like subsided a lot of that negativity. I mean, you still got your Randy's out there, you know, beating the beating the bushes with his with his whole band, the whole thing message. Um, but it's not, I feel like it doesn't have the visceral hatred that it did even a year ago, that that whole conversation. Uh, I I think people are realizing is here to stay, but you know, Bassmaster and other tournament organizations are not going to let it define the whole sport. And I think that's what that's what Randy's, you know, the r I I keep talking about Blocky, but I mean he's kind of the the face of that whole movement. But like that, there is a valid, valid point to forward-facing sonar should not define a sport. Like there should not be one technique or one piece of electronics that defines what your sport does. That's that's just silly. But but it's here to stay, so it's going to have to be incorporated. So uh, so I think that that's kind of subsided, and I've seen the numbers go up. It seems like a lot of the tackle companies, tackle shops that I'm talking to, tackle sales are up significantly over 25. I don't know what the license sales are yet in 26, but I would guess that they've bumped back up. So I'll I'll probably find out next month, but that that's my that's my thoughts on it.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

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SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah it seems like a silly question, but I would assume tackle sales and license sales are correlated. I mean, they'll they'll run, those lines will run together.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

For for the most part, yeah. Yeah. I mean, as far as like the um, you know, the tide, yeah, the tide will rise a little bit when license sales goes up. So that's why during COVID, pretty much if you sold something that ever caught a fish, you probably sold more than you've ever sold, you know, the two to three years after COVID when those license sales were so high. Um, it so yeah, there is definitely a correlation, but you know, having an innovative or or just a good new product is is a really good way to make your tackle sales go in the correct direction.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

And that's yeah, I mean, that's really a big portion of what we talked, thought through on this show today was like, I'd love to hear your take, obviously, the whole urchin buzz, right? This this whole thing, but not only that in this specific instance, but just how the tackle industry has changed from you know the last 30 years to how it acts now in the last five years, just your thoughts on a high level.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yeah, I mean it you know, over the last 30 years, the the internet has really influenced the biggest part of it. Um 30 years ago, as far as the bass fishing tackle goes, not as not as far as like saltwater stuff goes, but as far as bass fishing tackle goes, you had two major influencers, three major influencers of what made people buy a new product, and that was the tournament, the professional bass tournaments, the magazines, media, and then um you had TV shows, you know, whether it's Hank Parker, Bill Dance, you know, whatever, Orlando Wilson back in the day, you know, all those Jimmy Houston. That that was a big big driver of what people, you know, how they learned to fish and what they were using. Well, with the internet comes a billion videos on how to fish on YouTube and all that, and then all of a sudden now you have influencers with bigger followings that people become to rely on. And there's not not so much on the TV shows, I would say a slightly diminished role from the from the pro tournaments, but the thing that pro tournaments have that TV shows and influencers don't have is that there's no hiding what's online. Dude, there's no hiding and and I don't care who you are, like you could have Strike King tattooed on your ass. If a Koike is going to win that tournament, Anglers are gonna throw the Koike, man. I don't care what anybody says, they're gonna throw what they think is gonna give them the best chance to win, period, point line.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

That's very well said. I mean, we see, I mean, granted it, the Koike won the tank, but we saw all the success Hunter had on the last day with the chop block, and it seems like sales in the chop block have been going crazy lately.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

So it's it's a good ass bait, man. Um, it's crazy because I had the idea for a soft glide bait like eight years ago, and I went down the road of trying to make it and having it made in the United States because missile baits is all made 100% in the USA. Having that bait made in the USA was pretty much impossible. And I just kept running into roadblock after roadblock, and finally I was like, damn. All right, I I I'd have just moved on, like I back burnered. I could show you drawings from years ago.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

And dude, it's so very similar to the chop block. But they and then they came out with a chop block last year, and I almost threw up in my mouth. I was like, Yep, that's it. That's what I was trying to do. And it and damn if it didn't a really good bait, and they're selling the horse piss out of them.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Dude, I when when that was on live, uh, and I was lucky to get a couple before in that exact color, but when that was on live, I mean that's to your point, a lot of there's been a lot of changes, YouTube, all these other avenues to sell baits, but it still blows me away the power of when a dude catches a big one on live. I mean, Patrick Walters on the show, right, was was was a commentator with Mercer and etc. on the that show. He ordered six hundred dollars worth of that bait while he was live, right? Like they're talking about it. And he's like, Do you think it's a six or the eight inch? And he literally ordered six hundred dollars worth on that's hilarious. Like it was hilarious. Like, yeah, yeah, that's that's what it is, man.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I mean, that's that's what it is. Like we it it I don't think as long as probe tournaments are are in existence and getting covered, they're always gonna have a role in the latest trend or what's really because like I said, it's all about what is actually working, what will put the biggest fish in the boat for me, uh, the big minnow, the freaking koike, kuike, however you want to say it. I don't want to say it right, I'm gonna say it wrong. And then and then the glide baits, you know, and then I think that that trend of soft, soft glid baits is the next deal. I think there's another trend coming that I don't even want to mention yet, but I've I try we can't make them. Like it's just there's too much um too much labor involved for to be made in the U.S. So I'm I'm trying to get Spro to make them. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

That's cool. They're a little teaser for the folks there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Yeah. Spro's do a lot of a lot of projects in the works, man. They uh um, you know, and they they're the U.S. distributor for hide up for the for all the koikes, and they have been absolutely mobbed with all the um with all the the koiky orders and people trying to get them. And uh man, they have been pulling, because it's not their hideup is not their company, they're just the U.S. distributor for it. So they have been like pulling their hair out, trying to get them to send more of those full casts and everything else that they have. But um, I I heard that they had a they just got a load landed and uh they're gonna blast blast fire that out, but that's just only scratching the surface for the orders they have.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Holy smokes. We're gonna have people rushing to everyone tackle store.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're they they they did a good job of like, you know, limiting what each tackle shop gets. So they they're gonna go all over. Like you might see them show up at your local tackle shop. I mean, obviously tackle wear out is gonna get some. Um, you know, Kennesaw Baiton Tackle, Hammonds, like everywhere's gonna get the ones that had their orders in, they're gonna get them. Um, but and they'll they'll blow them out. Like, I think some of them you just won't even you won't even need to put them online. Like you just they're gonna call two, three people, and then the word's gonna spread, and then just people are gonna come down and blow them out.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Uh that that part was one of the more interesting things that I learned. I think it was 2023 at the ASA summit was how the the fishing industry like of anglers is this big, but the highest spending group is like the 10% of that are tournament anglers. That's the highest spending group of them all. And this is just further evidence of why that's the case. Patrick Walter spending sixty six hundred dollars without ease on live buying a glide bait that they saw some guys.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

After SAN T um Um Drew Benton, who is sponsored by Spro, couldn't get any any uh full cast, so he spent three thousand dollars on eBay finding them wherever he could find them, and he bought them for whatever price because he's like, I don't care, I'm gonna have to I have to have them.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Dude, that right there, those words are like the epitome of the terminal. I have to have them. Have to have them.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

It's you know, at that point it's proven. Like, you know, Chris Johnson was going right behind dudes with that bush and just absolutely railing them, you know, and and there's you can't you can't hide that. Like that's that's what he did. So it's like, yeah, that bait, you know, in certain circumstances is really, really hard to beat.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Do you and that's like I mean, you've seen trends come and go, and this has been talked about a lot, but like, where does where does that stand? I mean, is this the craziest thing we've seen? Is this going to be something that's a flash in the pan? Does it stay? What's your take on it?

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Uh I think it's hard to say. I think this is the beginning of a trend of the of those style of baits. There's Already variations of those style baits. I mean, hideups already got you know a handful of variations themselves, but there's other companies with variations of that style of bait. I think that that style of bait is going to become a category and it's going to be big. And absolutely it's it's it's a trend of something that I don't think is going to go away. I mean, people still throw umbrella rigs and they still sell a good number of umbrella rigs, and that that trend really, really kind of went up and then kind of leveled off. Uh, so I don't I don't know that it's gonna completely go away, but I think it will be somewhat diminished um because there's gonna be a bunch of different styles. I mean, because that the uh that full cast is just really difficult to to cast, it's really difficult to rig, and you don't have the greatest hookup ratios. Um, so outside of the fact that it seems like every bass in the lake wants to damn bite the thing, it's not the greatest lure, you know. Really, it isn't other than the fact that they eat it like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah. Uh Mercer's been saying it for a while now on his podcast, like leading up to iCast, that's likely the majority of what we're going to see is either new renditions of it or also the the tackle and the rigging and the hardware that goes with it is what we'll probably be seeing a lot.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

Yeah, there's there's gonna be, I'll bet you 10 knockoffs, like just dead knockoffs. I mean, there's already eight or ten dead knockoffs of it. You know, it's just basically the same thing, little different colors and a little different formula. Most of most of the knockoffs are not as hard as the hide-up version, and and the the people from hide up swear that is this the deal. Like that is what makes it what it is, is the the firmness. Well, I can tell you firsthand, they will eat that soft version very good too. So I don't know exactly what you know, I I don't have enough time with it to kind of understand the difference, but uh yeah, there's a bunch of uh bunch of other things coming uh that that are in that same realm, I think.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah, I'm I'm kind of led to believe similar right now. Oh, oh boy, all right. Uh yeah, I'm kind of led to believe that like so I just to I guess lay it out there, like we went to we had the the Batchmaster kayak series after you guys were at Santee, like the week after. Um and the the to your point, a lot of fish would eat that the hags, the the prickly pair. But I noticed those top end fish would be interested but not commit. But then you'd throw that the same fish with the full cast, and then they would commit. So I almost wonder if there's something to it pulling more water that maybe they just I don't know. This is all conjecture. Uh I'm trying to uh remember uh my buddy Alex Rudd's word that he uses when we give fish human traits. I think it's amper amprophromor. I can't even pronounce the damn word, it's too big. Well, basically we're giving the fish these traits, but it's yeah, it's interesting to see the little intricacies between the two on like what fish will eat what. I mean, they definitely seem interested in all of them. It's just like what ones will actually make them swallow it to the gullet.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Yeah, so I did I did a um uh like a seminar probably 10 plus years ago for uh for bass university, and and I did it on what makes bass bite. And I've done probably 20 seminars on this topic since, you know, various some you know, different shows and stuff. Number one, hands down is action, period. No, no if, ands, or buts. Action, and that could be like a straight worm versus a worm with a curly tail. It could be, you know, a chatterbait that's light versus a chatterbait that's hard, thumping. Same for a crankbait, you know, there's a million different vibrations of a crankbait, and sometimes they won't touch one and they'll just absolutely throttle the other. So action, nobody can prove me different. Action's number one. Number two, that people overlook is what you were just talking about is size. In my opinion, size is by far the second most important thing that makes a bass bite a bait. Sometimes you can fish that, you know, that full cast, it looks like a damn tennis ball down there. And that like they can't stand it. They've got to just pummel it. But you could throw this the bait that looks the same, just the same, but it's like a little teeny tiny snack morsel. They will either totally ignore it, or it could be the exact opposite. They won't touch the tennis ball, but then they'll just wolf down this little tiny thing. And we're talking like you know, six and eight pounders will eat the little teeny tiny bait because it's the small size that for whatever reason makes them want makes them want to bite it. So that is by I think by far like a way overlooked part of it. And the Koiki is a is a perfect example of it because the different size ones, like they'll just they'll sometimes that little small one, man, they'd they'd totally ignore it. And then that big one, those big fish just can't can't ignore it. I have seen it firsthand with glide baits, and guys that are big bait guys, that is the why they throw those big baits because that is the only thing that will make sometimes like a seven or eight pounder or ten pounder. That that big bait is the only thing that will get that fish off his ass and go try to kill that thing, is because it's it's a huge big bait. You could throw the best looking four-inch bait, that 10-inch fish, that that 10-pound bass can be like, man, forget about that thing. I ain't eating it.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

And then in spring, they'll eat a wacky rig.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

Oh, yeah, right. It's a different time of year, yeah. And that same fish, it could be in like one day, they won't touch the big bait and they'll just eat the little, you know, a little three-inch wacky wig rig worm that looks, you know, tiny.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Yeah. Well, not to switch gears entirely, but like when people bring up your your list that you're talking about, you know, with with size and action, and you hear profile looped in, you hear color.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

And talking about color, you know, and obviously that is it, that's your line of business and learning what colors people want regionality-wise. Uh, which I have to say, by the way, still one of my favorite colors made all time is the GP3 that you guys made. That oh yeah, made me fall in love with the D-bomb and the destroyer. Heck yeah. Um but what have you learned since starting missile baits? On have you been simpler with your color selections on things, or has it made you a little bit crazier and more meticulous about your color selection?

SPEAKER_03 50:23

So, for for me, the color is third on that list of what makes a bass bite. And it to me, when you get to the third on the list, it's not what makes bass bite. It's uh what I call a multiplier. So you have to get the action and the size right. If you get the action and the size right, you'll get bit. If you dial the color in, you'll get bit at a greater rate. So if you have the right action, the right size, maybe you'll get three bytes an hour. And then if you dial in the right color, you might get five bytes an hour or eight bytes an hour. I've seen it where it's like five X bytes with the right color because sometimes there's a I think a trigger color. So then now that you kind of under, you know, like kind of comprehend that, what are the trigger colors? So I think that you, you know, you have to have a natural color, you know, green pumpkin or green pumpkin. Then you have to have a darker color, like black and blue or black and blue, and then you have to have some contrast colors, like orange is a big contrast color. I've seen orange be huge. I think chartreuse can be a contrast color that really gets bit. You've you've seen uh bubblegum be a contrast color that that at times can be just fire. Uh those those contrast colors uh have their own categories, and then and then you have shag colors. Uh so there's you know, the there's shad colors have their own deal. Like sometimes they won't touch green pumpkin, but you throw a shad color in there, and it's like bam. You know, a perfect example of that is I think a couple years ago we went to uh Champlain, I had an okay tournament. I caught almost every fish on a uh green pumpkin um money magic worm. Like every smallmouth I saw, I'd catch like two-thirds of them if I could get that magic worm, that color magic worm near them, just leave it there, they'd go over there and bite it. It was like, I was like, dude, I'm gonna go to St. Lawrence River the next week. I'm gonna F them up with this color. Dude, I the first 20 I threw at on at St. Lawrence in practice, I not one bit it, not one. And I was like, dude, this is the craziest thing. So I switched over because I could see some puffs of bait out around, and not like right there next to the fish, but like I saw them around. I said, Man, maybe they're on a shad color. So I switched to what we call shad flash, it's kind of a just shad color, got some flash to it. Put it on, put it on the hook. The first I think two out of the next three I threw out a caught, and that's what I ended up having a pretty decent tournament there on. And it the color was crazy at how much of a difference it it made just between those two bodies of water in one week. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

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SPEAKER_03 53:36

But yeah, it's I think it's a multiplier for sure. That um, you know, in that instance, it was like getting bit or not getting bit, but most of the time it's just a multiplier, like it increases your bite rate. And then in any kind of tournament or anybody going fishing, you just want to you want to catch more fish. So you gotta dial in that that extra um uh you know color factor part of it. So has it simplified it? Not not really, but that's kind of just my my system and my thought process with it.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah, it kind of almost sounds like you have a pyramid where it's you're you have a a a few that are constants wherever you go, and then based on the foraging conditions, is where you trickle down and expand outside of that main couple of colors. Am I getting that right?

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Right, right. And there's times when I'll go to one color if it's sunny, and then you know, if if if it gets cloudy and starts raining, I'll switch to another color. And that that's something that I I didn't really implement into my fishing until I spent time around Aaron Martin's. And he he would just lay it out for me. He'd be like, dude, he'd show me, he's like, This is the color for uh sunny and this, and if it gets cloudy, I'm throwing this. And I, you know, I always gave him a hard time because he was colorblind, and so I'm like, How do you know? He's like, it's I put all of them in that bin and then all of them in this bin. You know, he just knows them by what bin they're in because they he said literally they all look gray to him.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

That's amazing. It's so it's so true, man. I don't know what it is. Like our buddy Chad is also colorblind, and there's so many. I mean, it's it's a higher percentage of the population than I ever knew, but it blows me away how fishermen are able to do that. Like, I was asking him what color bait he was throwing, and he was like, could not tell me. And I'm like, no, like, dude, what color is it? And he's like, I think it's I think it's brown and like gray, and it was like not even close. He sent me a picture, like, dude, you know, you know, but it but it was working, so he stayed with it. It just it blows me away.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

That's funny, yeah. Because it it so he focuses on the size and the action because color doesn't matter to him for the most part, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Yeah, it's the same guy. Uh actually stayed at his house recently. I was at Clear Lake for a tournament, and uh he, of course, this is a a single guy in his, I think he's in his low 20s. He's 28 dude, he's older, he's unk, man.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Don't even start.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

I thought he was younger than me. I don't know. I'm unk too, man. Uh anyway, here we go. Either, either way, uh, he all uh the whole house was considered a tackle room for him. Yeah, and I'm walking around looking at some of the stuff that he's had because we can't talk to each other because of info rules, but I'm looking at some of them and I'm like, why in the world are you throwing this? And then finally, when the tournament was over, I'm like, dude, finally, I gotta ask you, what the hell are you throwing on that? He goes, just a green pumpkin where I'm like, dude, that's yellow. What do you mean? It's not a green pumpkin. He's like, Oh, I don't know. I eat it. I'm like, Oh, I learned something there. That's awesome. That is awesome. Yeah, oh craziest, but it's it's I I try to not overcomplicate the colors, but I feel like there's some so many people that really get very detailed with the profile from a color standpoint. It seems like they in specific scenarios like you're talking about, uh where I think especially pressured fisheries where that can shine when you really get detail fine-tuned.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

I I think so. I think there's just certain circumstances where um like they might have uh a crawfish hatch, or you know, or the crawfish are molten. So like whatever craw color those crawfish are, do they're that they're hunting that color specifically. Like they're scanning the bottom, like where's that red crawfish? Where's that red, or where's the orange crawfish? Where's the oh, there's one, and they zip to it, you know, it just brings attention to the bait that much better. I think that's part, you know, you know, if they get if they get to where they're schooling or or hitting bait fish, any any that bait fish color is going to outperform green pumpkin, you have 10 to 1 in their most situations. So um I just think you kind of have to keep in mind what they're key in on. And sometimes you you don't even know what they're keyed in on. We're like, oh, I didn't know they were they're key keyed in on bluegill. So no wonder this this Alabama brim or you know, bluegill looking color was so good.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

Right. I went through a stage where I tried to like just try the most wild colors just to see if they'd eat them. And um there was I'm trying to remember the color name off the top of my head. I saw Ish post it. It was a D was a Delta Crawl or something like that, the wild red and yellow orange D bomb that you guys have. Yeah. Uh I remember granted, take this for granted salt. This is northern bass, so they'll eat just about everything. That was part of my list of different baits I was trying to throw them just to see if they would eat it. And uh you saying it is making more stars align of a multiplier. And I think where if you have the things, the first two things of action and size, then it's just color just only adds to your success if you get that.

SPEAKER_03 58:41

I tell people all the time, I think, dude, I can take the I can take the most beautiful looking bait that you've ever seen, like you could take a stick and airbrush it to look exactly like a minnow, and do you won't catch squat on that thing. But if you take a just a straight-looking nothing worm in and the methylate, which nothing in nature is methylate color, and if it has the right action, wacky rig, dude, they'll come out of the woodwork to eat that thing, yeah. So I can take the wrong color and the right action and and size, and they'll just mow it down, but you can't go you can't do it the other way around. That's a good point. That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Yeah, I the color. I I think you really well said on on just the entirety of the color breakdown, the multiplier. Um, as we kind of wrap things up here, what is I mean, missile baits, anything you can share currently pre-ICAST, where we're at, what can you talk about? What should we be teasing, looking forward to? What's what's ahead, man?

SPEAKER_01 59:45

So we just what am I spending my money on?

SPEAKER_03 59:47

We just we just released the uh the buzzwagon buzz bait. So Brizzalo was making this for us. Uh got to be friends with Dan and he uh super nice guy, Dan uh Arvallo over at Brizzalo. And we were just talking, and I said, Man, I said, you guys have the the closest buzz bait to what I what I want to fish with. And he's like, Well, what do you want to fish with? And I was like, Well, I want a different hook and I want this, and I like I like your drop down and I like your blade, but I I want a cone on the front, and like I went through the whole thing, and he's like, Well, why don't we just uh we could probably make that for you? I was like, Oh, wait, I didn't know you were making for other people. He's like, Well, actually, we are we don't yet, but we're going to. I said, Oh, well, let's go, let's go with this thing. And uh, so I I had to custom order the hook because it's a it's a gamakatsu flip and punch hook, but you have to custom order it without the tin keeper on it. So we ordered you know a whole ton of those things without the tin keeper on it, and it took six or eight months to get those, and then we uh you know started making it so that that thing has gone over really well. We have sold a ton of those on the website, and uh that that's one of the things that we're we're you know gonna be showing at iCast. We got multiple other projects, one of which I'll show you right here. And we we have our uh micro jig, but we made a micro HD version of our micro jig. And so it's got a really full skirt, but it's a fine cut, but it's the same, you know, it's that little short micro size, but we and then we have a one-ought VMC hook that's that's pretty stout. You can throw that, you know, 14, 16 pound test on a bait caster and just you know, boat flip three or four pounders, shouldn't have any problems. Um, I've caught I've caught probably a dozen fish on this thing on this on the prototypes. Iconelli's caught way more than that on it. He really, really likes it. And it will come with a weed guard in it, but this is just one of the the uh the test ones I got uh that didn't have a weed guard in it yet. Uh of course Iconelli has all the ones with the weed guards in it. Uh but that's that's gonna come in quarter, three-eighths, and half ounce. So uh smallmouth up north, be ready uh in August because we're gonna be ripping your faces off with that thing. And um one of the other things, I'll just give you a little peek. I'll I'm not gonna show you the whole thing, but this is a jig that's coming. And we talked about urchants, uh, we talked about urchin baits having all these issues. It solves the hook issue, it solves the storage issue, it solves the how do you rig it with a weight issue, it solves all those issues, and uh that it we're gonna unveil that at iCast. That's gonna be uh pretty cool. Uh another Ike and LA creation. Like I've I floated the idea to him, and he was like all over it. And then he like came back with more ideas, and we just we pushed it all together. So uh so that's gonna be pretty cool to to see and unveil. And then we we had the freedom fire uh at the um, you know, it came out at the classic, so we'll be showing that the six-inch version of the freedom fire. We talked about big minnow. Big minnow things kind of died off with the quickie craze, but I'm telling you, big minnow is here to stay. The big minnow is a is a big deal, and uh people will kind of get back on it. You see, you know, if you watch the Pasca tank, there were still plenty of big fish caught on big minnows.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Oh, yeah, yeah. Fisher doing that, Bang Shaw, that the five and a quarter freeloader, I think, is what he was throwing at Grand Lake. It's that is one that you know we talked earlier of how long will the Koiky last? Well, the minnow is going to last forever. Yeah, that is never gonna go away.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:27

Yeah, it's always been around. Like there's always been minnow and fluke baits for 30, 40, 50 years. There, the minnow thing's not going away. It no, we you know, it might roller coaster a little bit, but it's not going away. And then we do have other soft plastics that are that we're working on, but we're not we don't have them ready for uh for iCast, so we're not gonna release them there. But as soon as we can get them get them done, we're gonna push those out. Look for that uh another soft plastic this fall.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

Heck yeah. So we'll be looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

We got a we got a little terminal thing too. I don't want to show that yet because uh that's pretty it's pretty slick. We're gonna release that at at um at iCast, and that's gonna go right along with the Quakey thing. Um, but it'll go along with a bunch of other baits, and uh that's what I was emailing that guy earlier about.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Oh heck yeah, yeah, okay. Well, our uh Deacon and I on our wallets will be we'll be waiting around for when that launches, that's for dang sure. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

Are you guys gonna be at iCast?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Yeah. All right, better. We'll make sure we come stop by.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

Yeah, heck yeah, man. Sounds good.

unknown 1:04:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

Well, we got two questions left for you. One uh is kind of our fun one to end the show, but I yeah, I have to ask, just out of curiosity, uh, what is missile bait's top selling bait of all time?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:42

Um, if as far as like cumulative sales, I would it has to be the D bomb. Um, but the last couple years, the spunk shad has been the number one selling bait. That that relationship with hog farmers is really cool. Um, you know, Galen and Scott are super nice guys over there, and uh I feel like it's been very beneficial for them as well. And uh man, we're selling uh as of this year, we're selling a lot of those in uh in the Walmarts as well. So they're not in every single Walmart, but we're selling a lot of them kind of scattered all over the country, and uh that's that's been a cool deal. And and um, yeah, yeah, that that's the number one selling bait for uh for the last probably two, three, two, three years for for us. But D bomb's right there behind it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

I have assisted in those uh in that's those sales efforts.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:32

Yeah, I was tired of buying hog farmer ones. Well, at that too, I just want to say quick, it's I I meant to say this earlier, but I love the the way you guys do business and you know working with RoboWorm instead of just going out and making your own version, you know, assist like working with the brand uh with Hog Farmer now with this buzzbait, uh, the way Spro and KGB uh did that whole with the with the Chad Chad. Like I I love seeing that done as as a consumer. So that's that's pretty dang cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

Yeah, man. I appreciate it. You know, and I we're kind of like uniquely positioned as, you know, still a privately owned company that can have personal relationships with uh with other individuals of privately owned companies and and that's what you can do if you're not you know one of the conglomerates. And I think the conglomerates have a lot harder time um you know kind of piercing that type of relationship because it is a big company and there's not like a face of the of those companies. So us little guys like to uh kind of join together and um you know do some cross promotion and and do business together and it's it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Heck yeah. Deke you got anything else for John here before we hit on the last question?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

No man.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

It's been good. All right. Well john last one here for you we ask uh everybody who's who hasn't been on the show for a while or is brand new to the show and that is if you could sit down with any three individuals they don't have to be fishing they could be alive thousand years ago live today doesn't matter yep what three individuals would you invite to a steak and dinner pick their brain um man this this is kind of kind of tough um I feel like because there's uh like the fisherman in me wants to invite three dudes that just want to talk fishing all day but then like the businessman in me wants to invite business people that are just gonna enlighten you on all kinds of cool things and then the spiritual religious person wants to invite uh you know religious figures or Jesus um so I'm gonna just have to go with one of each there you go and I'm gonna have to you Jesus number one Jesus got to have a seat at that table I think he could I mean there's no better fisherman than Jesus as well so not only talking about um you know about religion and about uh spirituality but I mean that's number one right there um I think an interesting um this is gonna be like a wildly eclectic group I'll be honest with you um I think that you know from a fisherman perspective it's wild because like some of the guys I grew up you know looking looking towards like Rick Klun and uh Van Dam and stuff like I know those guys like they're my friends and uh so that that part of it is kind of weird so I'd have to go backwards in time a little bit um I would have to say I mean God I'm I'm like I don't even know who what one fishing figure to to pick.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

That's the fun part about this question is sometimes we get DMs after the fact they're like oh man I should have said this oh man should have said that right right all right well let me skip the fishing the skip the fishing one um if we wanted to go um like to the business side of things I think it would be I think it would be fun to have Elon Musk dude world's richest dude um he dude he's wildly funny uh I think that would be an interesting interesting part um person to have there as far from the business and uh just in for the comedy and then uh you know circling back to the to the fishing thing um man I don't even know who uh who like I've got so many good friends like I can't alienate any of my good friends that to invite them so um yeah like I don't even I don't even know but I have to I have to do a fishing figure what who would it be how about this who would be the most interesting from a conserv conversation perspective if Elon and Jesus are sitting there which guy you know is it who's who's gonna be like the guy who adds to the conversation yeah who who do you trust to introduce both of those figures to the Poikie and explain that to them I the I'll I'll do I'll go this way I'll go this way and I want to honor him a little bit in this and we mentioned him earlier I'll go Aaron Martins.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

Cool Aaron Martins because only Jesus could probably understand Aaron and and being that Elon and Aaron sound somewhat similar sometimes when they're making a point that that they probably would understand each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

So I think that would be a fun table fun table to to to be around that is such a good point like the big brain like of Aaron and of Elon like the aspects of like the way that they mannerisms and way they talk like I think you're I think you're kind of on there.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Yeah so that's my that's my three right there that's a banger three man that's awesome I don't think does anybody pick those three I sure don't think so I think that's I think that's a pretty awesome combo we've gotten Elon a couple times we've gotten Aaron a lot okay uh Jesus a few times uh never together though luckily I was I was good friends with Aaron uh for a while uh as as were a number of guys uh you know with Ish and uh David Mullins get real close with him but man uh Aaron dude I was talking with uh it's funny I'll tell you one quick story when we were at the Pasca tank I did not make the final day cut almost did uh so I did work the pro am the next day and Steve Kennedy was working the pro-am well about 15 years ago me and Steve and Aaron and some other guys were uh invited to Spain to come fish a tournament well the one night we you know every night you have like a huge big dinner and the one night we had a huge big dinner and there was this the full a full pig was on the table that was cooked you know like on the rotisserie so the full pig was there and after you know a handful of bottles of wine had disappeared off the table we started daring Aaron to eat different parts of the pig so he pulls off the ear and eats the ear he eats some of the snout he eats an eyeball and then he like roots in and we're like all right now do that so like we were stabbing the thing with we were stabbing the thing with a fork and pulling out pieces and then we're like you eat it and he was eating it we're all dying laughing well he pulls out the core of the ear like canal and he did he put it in his mouth Steve was sitting at the table he jumped up from the table and ran outside like we're all laughing so hard I barely noticed and I'm like so I'm dying we're all just dying I mean like tears are coming down our face we're all just dying laughing he's Aaron's dying laughing well Julia Steve's wife comes back in a few minutes later and she's like you guys Steve just threw up his brains out outside after watching Aaron eat that ear canal and I thought I mentioned that to Steve last week and Steve goes oh my god don't talk about that just thinking about it that is insane oh my Aaron was one of a kind man he was uh he was so much fun that's amazing that's sick I got I could listen to those all day yeah uh dude thank you so much for the time I know we mentioned this was probably gonna be a 30 or 45 minute show and here we are at an hour god dude talking fashion yeah get good luck with that yeah exactly dude again thank you so much and man looking forward to uh seeing it down at iCast absolutely yeah we have a uh we have a little um speakeasy bourbon tasting uh during happy hours so if you're into the brown uh liquids you can come on by brown water we will be there well appreciate it man and uh we'll be talking to you soon all right thank you guys for having me on appreciate it all right folks and that's gonna do it for today's show of Mr.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

John Cruz and Deke like I was saying in the the introduction very well spoken and uh a guy we need to be getting back on here consistently yeah man it's been a minute um uh john is just such a good dude he's very just the way he explains things to me it just is um high level and you can tell his intelligence and the uh the honesty and the just the genuineness right behind it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

So really appreciate uh his insight and takes on everything and uh yeah man always a good one yeah he he explains things very well like very intricate but also to a level where everyone can also still understand like it's doesn't overcomplicate it and um yeah comes at an angle that's very objective uh and obviously has the one not just the respect of his peers but um the amount of experience to uh talk to about things from multiple hats like being a professional angler having success running a successful business in the tackle industry um coming at it from multiple angles his perspective is very appreciated and one that I really enjoy hearing so uh a lot of juice that he unlocked in this one hopefully people use to go catch some more fish and be on the lookout for some of the new stuff from missile baits uh and like we said in the intro I'm sure all that stuff will be on Omnia Fishing before we know it and you guys can use code series 10. Save yourself some some moolah so that you can afford to buy some even more tackle uh but uh man great episode and uh good luck to you well I say good luck to you now because it's it's Thursday but yeah buddy hopefully we'll have good results to add on to this show uh from your tournament at Brownlee but uh good luck to you pal and uh folks appreciate you guys uh watching and tuning in if you missed recent episodes we had a new real biology on Monday as well as a bonus episode last week with Carl Jockson that aired uh so you go check those out but uh Deke anything else no man looking forward to it and uh we will uh have an update on the next show all right folks we'll appreciate y'all as always for tuning in and we'll see y'all on the next one