Pros and Cons of ICAST 2026...

Bailey and Andrew Hayes from the Tackle Talk Podcast talk about their pros and cons after coming home from ICAST.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Dude, I forgot to edit out the uh beginning of our podcast, and I'm like streaming our such piece of shit. And then start the show. Like 300 people listen to it like in the first 45 minutes and they're like, uh, bro. Hey, listen, that's that's you know, real life.

unknown 0:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Just had a cold open. Literally. I think that's what they call it, right? Kind of like the Joe Rogan where they just roll into it and they're already talking.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

They've been talking for 20 minutes and they're like, Oh, are we recording?

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

I would love to do that style.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

I don't trust myself though.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

I don't either.

unknown 0:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Not a chance.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Yeah. Are you good? Yeah. All good. All right, cool. All right, folks. Welcome to the Sirius Angler Podcast. And we have a special one for you guys. We got a little off the cuff pod. We literally just got home. Today is actually the last day of iCast. Yeah. And uh as always for Sirius Angler, folks, I'm your host, Bailey Igbrett. Deacon, we'll get into Deacon here in a second. Deacon is not on this show. We replaced him with a better host, the goat of fishing podcast, Mr. Andrew Hayes from Tackle Talk. Uh but Hayes, looks like you're back home in Ohio and appreciate you jumping on here today, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, you're good. Just uh hopped off the flight like an hour ago. So I'm good. I'm two days is enough of iCast. Like, I don't know how people are still there today.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

No, I uh I do not miss the days of getting there on a Monday and staying until late Friday or a Saturday. Yeah. Um, I can barely handle two days. Uh I I say that and I want to preface I love iCast because we talked about this. Yeah, I love iCast because like it's kind of like the classic where I get to see all the faces, the people I know that I never get to see. Right. I love that. If that if it was the point of that, I would stay for weeks on end, yeah, just to see everybody. Um, but there's something about Orlando in July, yeah. Uh, and just kind of some of the atmosphere parts of iCast that can be kind of like just exhausting, yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

But why do we have it in July? Do you know what's the point? By the time that stuff gets released, like right now, so they'll tease it now, it'll be a month before it's out, it'll be August, and then fishing season for like half the country ends in like a month and a half. Like, why don't we have this in February or something?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

I think if they put up to a vote, like this is common sense, and shout out to Mikey Balls, who put out an incredible video detailing of how you actually grow eye cask, which he would nailed every single point, was do it in early spring when everyone's excited about it. Yeah, when products are actually available, when fishing season's about to start. One, it's not going to be a freaking hundred-degree sauna, feel like you need 35 showers in the day, type of ordeal, where the on-the-water day might actually be enjoyable for people to go to because they're not going to die of heat heat stroke. Yeah, um, but also you make a third day a consumer day, and that might actually bring all the brands that are starting to leave iCast to me, hey, maybe there's actually a point for us to be here. Uh there's so many aspects.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

I agree with the first one. I don't know if I agree with the second one.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

I just think the consumer day, when you think about it, granted, I don't know the back end cost, but like if the point of iCast is to go there and introduce products, that gives this the small brands more visibility to consumers that they can't access through social media.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Um are you wanting people to actually sell things there? Because then it just becomes the classic, basically.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I mean, you could argue one way or another. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

The other thing is like I think a lot of the brands are getting annoyed already that like there's too many TikTok kids running around and stuff, and like this is not a uh show where I'm getting actual business done with buyers and stuff as much anymore as it is like someone shoving a camera in my face and saying, Hey, what's new for 2026?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah, there's that, but then I would also argue if you're going to be meeting with buyers, why aren't you scheduling meetings? You know what I mean? Like if we don't have access to that database.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

But how many times have you seen like one of the main guys or a pro or something that like is trying to get to a meeting and there's like a line of five people that are like trying to take a picture with them and get them to talk on their phone real fast and stuff, and they're like, dude, I gotta go. Like it's it just becomes like it almost has to be one or the other, I feel like I would say I said this on like a week or two ago on my show. I was like, if I could snap my fingers, uh if it could go back to the way it was probably before the social media age, it was probably awesome for everybody. Like, even if that means it keeps us out of it, like no media, and it's just real actual industry people that go there and get the work done and meet with buyers and stuff, and then all of our distraction part goes away. Like, that's the other side of the pendulum you could swing, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah, maybe to that point you have one day at a media day. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, which you could do that for sure. Yeah. I just feel like we're even like the media, and media is a very loose term nowadays. It's like anybody with an iPhone, but uh let everybody in now. Yeah, they're they're bringing people in to do that kind of stuff now, right? But yeah, I don't know. I I think it's a distraction for a lot of brands. Yeah, um, some of the ones might appreciate any you know publicity they get, but your your main brands are like, dude, this it's brutal when there's a line of people trying to like get selfie pictures and you know, uh shove a camera in their face for their you know YouTube channel that has 12 subscribers on it to talk about five minutes worth of the new products for this year and eat up time with these people.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah, there is that. I do think as long as I I have found though, if you get in the bind and you say, I have a meeting, I'm sorry. Yeah, typically you can get away.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

And then they see me two aisles over and they're like, wait a second, I thought you had a meeting. Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

It definitely helps when you actually have a meeting to go to. But yeah, no, it's it's interesting. I I think there's a lot of things they could be doing better. Uh, I've heard from several sources that they're not really interested in hearing out the brands, which kind of sucks. Yeah, um, but I do like the premise of iCast and just seeing everyone getting opportunities, especially to the smaller brands, like dude, the big brands like the Pier Fishings, Araplas, Shimanos, they don't need iCast.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

A couple of them aren't aren't there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Right. And it's like, so I think future it's like, I don't know, do you prioritize trying to gear towards the smaller brands, up and comers, the people that might actually find a severe value in the cost to get to iCast because it's not cheap, uh, as well as going uh across the country for a lot of these people, like why can't we just go to like Tennessee or some main hub in the middle of the country? Yeah. Um, that's a story for another day. But yeah, essentially, before we go down a long-winded rabbit hole, Hayes and I could talk about ideas on this stuff forever. But uh essentially the the cusp of this today, guys, is this isn't going to be a major deep dive from iCast. We're gonna give you kind of our top three each of takeaways from iCast, whether it's gear, things we noted, what have you. That way you can kind of get the synopsis of it, and then I'm sure Hayes will be doing a deeper dive in his because, dude, you got to probably see the majority of the floor where I only kind of got certain sections and then kind of heard through the grapevine what's good, what's not. Um, and so you'll see the deeper dive over at Tackle Talk. Highly encourage you guys to go and listen to that whenever that is out. Obviously, we'll pitch that over to Hayes when that happens, but um kind of just gonna go through our top threes, bro, and just like obviously every year there's always a million things. I mean, your major brands have literally, I'm not joking you guys when I say this, five to seven thousand new SKUs every year. Uh, so there's a lot of things to uh to siphon through, but we're gonna kind of keep it high level, major things we saw, and I'll pitch it over to you, man. Like, you're what's the first major takeaway that you had from from iCast for 2026?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

I think the first thing that strikes me is like you can go there and see, like, you can find whatever you're looking for. So, like, if you go there and you say, you know, you have the mindset like this year, where it's like, oh my gosh, it's just gonna be koike fest and it's gonna be urchin fest, and I'm not gonna be able to look two feet without seeing one. If that's your mindset, then you're gonna walk into that expo, you know, arena and you're just gonna see koikis everywhere because they were like urchins were all over the place. But if you go there, like I went there this year and was basically like I'm I'm not saying they don't work because they do, obviously. I'm just tired of talking about them. I'm tired of trying to compare things from 50 different companies that are all 99.8% the same. And by the way, you know, 70% of them are ordering them from the same website and repackaging them anyway. So it's like I just don't want to, you know, uh spend spend so much time trying to go through that and compare those. So instead, I just had the mindset where like I walked in on day one, I said, I'm going to basically just pretend like they don't exist. Like I'm gonna go and try and find rods, reels, you know, accessories, other more traditional baits, like things that I think and I believe probably have staying power. And at this point, the dead horse of the urchin craze has been beat into oblivion already. And I feel like you kind of saw the fatigue from even the companies that were coming out with it this year. They were just like, oh my gosh, like I'm just tired of this. They don't even want to talk about them or believe them anymore because it's just been so overplayed. And that's what the fishing industry does is we just find something and we just beat it to a pulp. And uh yeah, I I think I was really pleasantly surprised where it's like if you go in there with your head down and you do what I did, which is like on day one, I started in one corner of the showroom floor and I went meticulously, like booth by booth, aisle by aisle. And it took me from like 9 a.m. the first day until probably 4 p.m. the first day just to get across the showroom floor. Like, but I I took my time and then that day you get a really good lay of the land, you get some ideas of what's worth coming back and taking a second look at on day two, you know, what sound bites you want to get, what uh you want to spend more time with, but you do give everybody a little bit of a fair shake and say, no, I'm gonna go and really scour through all this stuff. And when you do, there's so many diamonds in the rough when you walk through an aisle. Like you could take a random consumer, have them walk through a random aisle, and they're gonna find something super cool if you take the time to actually look at that booth and talk to the people that work there. Like that's been my biggest thing I've learned over the years is like, don't just look at their backdrop or look at the thing they have out on the table in front of them and just walk by. Like, ask them. Ask them what it is, where it came from, why they made it. And there's some of those products that you look at. I would have never given the time a day, and then you talk to the people and you're like, oh, it's actually pretty cool. So that's kind of like my first one is just you know, you can find anything there if you put the time in and sift through everything.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Hey, just shows up to the booth and says, I don't care what's out here. Take me to the back. Take me to the back.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Show me the kids. Show me, show me the real. But one of the fun things to do is actually ask like the guys, like, hey, what are you most excited about? Like, uh not the the one thing that always gets me is like every year people go, and I did this the first couple years too, before I learned that, hey, there's a billion people doing this, walking up to these people and just saying, here's a microphone, what's new for 2026? And then they have to go through this like five-minute canned spiel of everything, and they spend 35 seconds on each product and just go through it with specs that you can already find online. Like you don't even need them to regurgitate it. I can find all that information from my couch right now on Tackle Warehouse or you know, the preview page or something. So instead, like I go it up and no microphone, no anything, just talking to them, be like, hey, what are you like jacked about? What are the retailers saying? What are they gravitating toward that you didn't see coming? And that's where you start to put together the pieces of oh, they were really proud of this thing. They put a lot of stock into this thing. The public or the buyers are really saying they think this is gonna sell through better. That gives me a good idea of what I think you're gonna see more of as a consumer in a couple months.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I love that. I like that approach. Um, because yeah, there's there's a difference between what product it might be getting the most hype and what the bait makers, designers, rotary, or whatever are actually because there's two stories, and typically the one that they're most excited about that might actually be the most impactful, are the ones that might have the biggest story, which five years down the road are the ones that get discontinued. Because, as we all know, some of the most discontinued baits are actually some of the best ones that we are constantly searching for on eBay.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Um, so that's where you can dig those out. Um, so I'd be remiss, I totally forgot. In the well, before we started here, before I get to my number one, uh, I never explained the Deacon thing. Uh so we're gonna put Deacon on blast here for a little bit. Uh Deacon dropped a bomb on me on day two that because, oh yeah, dude, we just on the spur of the moment, the girlfriend and I were flying to Mexico. They went to Mexico. Deacon can't be on the pod. He knows what he's doing down there. Uh hopefully he's staying safe in old Mexico. But um, so yeah, we brought in we we brought in the big guns for this one, but uh quite. I'll get out of here, bro. You do that's the reason why I told people literally on social. I was like, you're not gonna see much social coverage from us at iCast because I don't think anyone else does a better job than you. Uh Jay at Kumar Bass Blaster does a great job. Uh Alex May from Tackle Tour does a great job. Y'all are the three headed dragon that actually like are worth looking at when it comes to iCast coverage, bait coverage, and that doesn't just uh suck up to the brands, you know. Like you'll tell, like, this is good, this sucks. This is why. Um, so yeah, we that's why that's why I was saying, man. Um one thing too that I didn't even hit on this year. We talked about it for for people that didn't make it down to iCast that were curious about what iCast looked like uh this year. Like people are always curious every year, you know, you hear about the one Pierre Fishing left iCast and things like that. What is it gonna do uh to iCast? It seemed like to me that the show was still full from brands, more brands, but smaller boost spaces, meaning I think there's a lot more brands, but a lot smaller brands, a lot more international brands, too. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

That was that was gonna be sort of along the lines of one of mine, too. Yeah, so you definitely notice that as you're walking around.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Yeah. Well, I will stop there then so I don't ruin any any of the your top three years.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

That's okay. I can go four, five, six, seven. I'm sure we got a bunch.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Hell yeah. Well, we'll save those for the tablet talk because I'm I'm very excited to listen to that. Uh, my number one is gonna be um obviously every year at iCast, you have brands that have beyond expensive things like stuff that we're never gonna in our lifetime probably purchase. But I feel like from last year to this year, I'm seeing a lot more popularity and emphasis on affordable options from baits, rods, reels, so on and so forth. Um, I feel like you really started to see this too, like when Lawrence came out with that the eagle eye package that was like a graph and a scope bundle for under a grand. Uh, and then you see people start coming out with um from a bait application that typically costs a lot of money, giving you a more affordable option. You saw it this year with Z-Man coming out with a new option for tungsten. It's like um something alloy. I'm trying to remember the specific term for it.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, they they told me what it is. They don't, they're not putting it out there, but it's basically it's like three or four different things that they've put together to make like a harder, more durable, you know, option. So it's like, you know, there's obviously in all that kind of stuff, there's probably gonna be bismuth and a lot of things that are in those, but they had a couple weird ones that were in there, yeah, real affordable, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:36

And I'm very curious to try that. Just being a guy that loves tungsten, um, isn't willing to pay the new premium for tungsten, but also doesn't want to go back to lead. Uh, is so I'm very curious about that. Um, you know, buy slate 13 fishing with all their new rods and reels. I think that is uh is sick, as well as best in show one was uh I don't know if it's underloose, but that rhino brand, it might have had a weird slogan, which you you sent me that which was made my day. Yeah, uh but it seems like this is a bold strategy, but going after the ugly stick market in that one best in show, and that just shows you one, there's emphasis from the brands, but two, there's popularity enough for it to be voted on. Now I'm sure things are still political with iCast, but uh there's enough popularity there where people are interested in that to make it a best of show. But you saw it everywhere, you saw it with terminal tackle, you saw rods, reels, so on and so forth. A lot more affordable options, and not just affordable as like here's something cheap for you. It's here's something cheap that actually feels good to fish.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, that was my my number two. I had written down here says budget gear is so back. Like hell yeah, it is because it's to your point, it was all over that showroom floor. There are some, and we'll go through a ton of them in the episode that'll be out on Tuesday. There are a ton of budget options out there that I didn't see coming that are going like people finally got the hint that hey, yes, the $500 you know baitcasters that are coming out are cool to a very small number of people, but the mass appeal still, I understand that inflation is happening, $100 and under is that just magic number. Once you cross the $100 Rubicon, it's a whole different world. And if you make a reel that's $105, it might as well be $125, $130, because now you're competing with the $150 and under crowd. So at that point, like if you can keep it at that magic under 100 where it's two digits, it's a nine and a nine, or something under that that happens. Like, there is a very special place in the marketplace for that. And the the consumer's expectation of that gear has shifted. It used to be if I'm buying a $99 reel, the best option out there is gonna have an aluminum frame first and foremost, because there were like four or five options at the time about that. Now those days are gone. There's nobody, with the exception of maybe the pro qualifier at Bass Pro, I think that's still holding on by a thread at $99. There aren't any like aluminum-framed bait casters that are, you know, worth their weight and salt that are under $100 anymore. So the consumer has shifted. The 13 reels are a great example. Those are not aluminum framed, and I think the reception on those was awesome. Like I actually went up to uh Ricky, I think his name is over at 13. And I was, I basically on the last day, I was like, you don't know me, but I know who you are, and I know that you're a big part of 13. And I just walked up to him. I was like, I think what you guys are doing over the past like two years, especially is really cool. So just keep it up. Like, I think a lot of people are noticing the complete revamp, no remnants really anymore of pre-Rapala 13 fishing. They've started from the ground up with their people and their designs. And I think people are starting to notice. They have a coherent product line. Um, I joked with him. I was like, you know, you're not gonna have a lime green rod that's called the fate black. Like that those days, yeah, those those days are gone. So um, yeah, a lot of that stuff. Lose has some cool budget options, especially in uh one that I did not see coming. I don't think anybody saw coming at a price point that is gonna shock a lot of people. Um, the Rhino stuff is cool too, because what they're basically saying is okay, we think the pie of Ugly Stick is so big, which it is, it's absolutely massive, the number of dollars that are spent on ugly sticks a year. And they're pretty much saying, hey, we know they're the 800-pound gorilla in the room, but if we can even cut off 5% of that pie, 10% of that pie, that is well worth it. That's gonna outsell anything else we do, probably. So that's kind of interesting. I rethought that over the past couple days of going, you're not gonna take on Ugly Stick, and they're they're not gonna overtake them, but if they can share some of that market with them, I think they're gonna be really happy.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah, if you got one person that's got a hundred slices of pizza and you can just steal 10, you're still having a great, yeah, great dinner.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah. Yeah, their mark their marketing was a little odd, but obviously we're talking about it, so it worked, I guess. But it'll it always it's always weird when there's like uh innuendos with a brand that is also probably uber affordable and gonna be marketed a little bit toward kids. Like Ugly Stick is a lot of people's first rod and reel. Like you're going to Walmart, you're buying it for your kid or something. And I don't know if we want like you know, wiener and butt jokes for the brand that is we're gonna be selling to kids, that's a whole different conversation, I guess. But yeah, I mean it was it was interesting for sure. And yeah, I mean, they won best in show and kudos to them.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah, it'll be intriguing to see the public perception when those become available, if not already. Um I I do love the marketing. Yeah, at first when you sent me that, I'm like, what are they thinking? But then the yeah, like you said, you perfectly stated it's like the more you think about it, okay. Maybe it does make sense. This is a little bit of industry talk for some folks, but uh, there's I love the more that brands are there's a couple different strategies. I see you still have a lot of people doing the same old thing, which you can tell they get the same old results, then which is yeah, not not much unless you have a very innovative product. But there's a a lane you can take of just doing something really badass and just showing the proof and the pudding, like I think the Rappula folks are doing. Then you can do a twist of that, which like the Peer Fishing folks started doing a few years ago, which obviously my former gig as an agency for the peer phishing folk, they were kind of more like the screw it, let's do something edgy kind of thing. Like they literally had me wear a t-shirt at iCast while I was working meetings for them that said ask me about my slobber knocker. And that was like a mini like thing that was going around to people's text messages was my t shirt I was wearing. Uh it's weird when no one knew who I was, but they were have having me take pictures with me turned around so they could have the t shirt on there. Uh so that's when you know people are kind of edgy. Um and I think what they're doing is edgy, and I think edgy is fun because fishing is edgy, fishing is such a bush light, throw in a dip type of sport that's like. Like, why are we here in a suit and tie? You know what I mean? Yep. Um, so cool to see that. Uh, and we totally derailed this this conversation from that point. But uh we said, well, I know you said you had something similar for two, but what what do you got?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah. Um, so if we move on from budget, I would say uh you hinted at a little bit, but there the diversity of companies that were there was more than any year that I've ever been at iCast. And part of that is because I'm sure you have think of how much booth space someone like a pure fishing used to take up and used to buy, and now you have to fill that space. And there are no other giant companies that have the budget of someone like Pure Fishing that are going to take that space all in one swoop. So you do have to start to parcel out when you have big brands that used to eat up a tenth of the show floor, it felt like, that are no longer there. And so, yeah, you saw a ton of smaller businesses. To your point, you saw so many more international uh like wholesalers than I'd ever seen from China and Japan and places like that where there was a lot of like um, I don't know what that is, I guess, Eastern Asian um folks that were there and and were set up. And it was really funny because you'd walk up to them and be like, you're looking at stuff, and they're basically like they'd see your your badge and it was media, and they're like, I want nothing to do with it. Like if it doesn't say buyer like retailer on it, I'd I literally don't want to talk to you because I'm only here to try and get I only wholesale, I don't direct to consumer ship anything. Like, I you can't buy their stuff if you want to. If we wanted to go online right now and buy their things, we physically can't do it for a lot of those companies because they just wholesale. Um, but there was some cool stuff. It it does open your mind a little bit when you walk up to some of those booths and you're like, this hook is not bad that they've got in there. And you know that it's a fifth the price of what I'm currently using and buying. And I'm sure if you're buying it wholesale, you can get it for pennies on the dollar. And the fact that some of that just private Chinese label stuff, you would go feel it, and you're like, this braid doesn't feel terrible. And I'm sure it's like six dollars a spool or something. Some of them in the new product showcase were like that. I took some pictures. There was a spool of braid that was like, I think it was 15 or 20 pound braid, and I felt it and I was like, Yeah, yeah, it's fine. And then I looked at the price and it was like $5.99 a spool, and I was like, oh, interesting. So, like, it is it is cool to see some of that stuff to know that there is decent, you know, quality stuff being made out there for way cheaper than the price that we pay for it. Um, but yeah, I I I was really interested to see all of the people that I don't mean this the wrong way, but like I'm surprised they could afford a booth at iCast. Like, all I've ever heard is how expensive iCast is, even for a small booth space. And the fact that some of these, and I'm glad they were there because they were some of the best conversations and some of the coolest people to talk to, but there was like a fourth of the show floor that felt more like people I would see at my Columbus fishing expo. And I thought that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah, I do I do agree with that. It's more I don't know how I how I state this, that makes sense, but kind of you're when you have the bigger brands, they're a little more collectively on the same page as a team. They are to an extent media trained, they are a little bit more polished, but then you have those brands that are almost kind of like your more working man blue collar that are like, all right, let's send it out of the garage, let's go to let's go to iCast. Yep. And you kind of get that vibe, which is which is perfect. Typically, when you get those guys with some beers in their hands, that that those are some fun people to be around. Uh but yeah, it's I definitely picked up on that too.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, and you don't have gatekeepers at those brands. Like when you want to talk to someone and ask actual questions about what they make, how they make, like they will talk to you. They will and and you're talking to the owner of the company, the person that makes it and started it. Where, like, I mean, no offense, but if you go up to some bigger brands and bigger folks, like there's an army of dudes in you know, vests and they all look the exact same, and they are there basically to be like, what do you want? Like, you know, what what can I help you with? And they won't let you, they won't talk to you, first off, on so like Shimano's a great example. Like, you can't go up to Shimano and get any of the people that you know actually worked on the reels and are really techie and know that stuff. They will not comment on things, especially like on record on like, you know, uh with a microphone in front of them because they're not, I guess, allowed to talk to media. Like it all funnels through like one or two people they have approved to talk to media. And it's like, you know, Alex and JP and those type of people over there at Shimano. So it's like there's there's a way different dynamic between you walk up to a giant company like that that does have their army of people uh around the booth that kind of protect who's allowed to talk and who's not, what they can say and what they can't, versus your mom and pop shop that's like, yeah, I started this three years ago. What you want to know?

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Yeah, there's almost almost like nine NDAs. Do you have a walkthrough of uh a screener just to see if you're wearing a wire and then you're limited to two questions and you have to run the questions by them verbatim first. If you stray from it, then they leave. Yeah, it's not that bad, but yeah, to the point, yeah, it's basically a level just before sometimes. Yeah. Uh the second one I had, dude, was going back to to mostly about baits and messaging was last year felt last year, especially, year prior, definitely had a heavy emphasis on it, but messaging around scope, around forward-facing sonar. Yeah, I felt like that was evident this year, but much less than previous years. There was, of course, anyone that that knows bass fishing well enough, you can turn almost about any single bait in existence into a quote unquote scope bait, but there was a lot of new introductions to stuff that there was nothing in the messaging of the conversation of this bait is intended to be used with live sonar. Um, and I find that that is not only great for the industry, it's great for the anglers, it's great for the community. Um, but it also gets back to this tunnel vision of while I love forward-facing sonar, it gets away from the tunnel vision of what can we do to pair with this transducer versus what can we do to pair with every single angler in existence.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Um, and so that that part for me, I think, as looking for the general population of anglers, the biggest population of anglers in our sport, that was, I think, uh an importance because I didn't see, I mean, last year, dude, you could not go on social media and see one of the brands posting something about some new scope bait and the comment section just being ruthless. Which sidebar, dude. I feel like 2026 has been rather quiet with that stuff. Maybe it's off my algorithm now, but like I feel like I don't hear all the whining as much.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I think you're cheating because you're looking at my number three right now. Dude, I can you see my screen? I need to shut up then. No, that'd be hilarious if you could just like you had my screen popped up and you're like, Yeah, I can see everything, dude. Just hacked into your screen. But you're you're right on the scope stuff. So if you want to stay there for a second, like I mean, yeah, it just shows bullying works. It does, man. When when you have three-fourths of the industry being like the fact that you slapped forward-facing sonar optimized on the front of this minnow type bait or swim bait or whatever, like it's stupid. Like we all collectively think it's stupid. People that use scope think it's stupid. People that don't use scope think it's stupid. Like, collectively, can we just stop marketing baits as forward-facing sonar baits? And I think to your point, I don't know if I saw a single, I don't think I saw a single bait come out that was specifically marketed for forward-facing Strike King had like a spotlight minnow or something. So like it's cheekily in the name, I guess, but like the the winged version of that spotlight minnow is basically like a sakamata kind of looking deal. But um, other than that, I I didn't really see that either. And I think that's cool. I think the fact that, like, if you want to use it, fine, if you don't want to use it, fine. Like, can we just get away from all of that and stop like they're stoking the fire when you're putting out baits that like have forward facing all over the front of the packaging? Just the people that use scope are savvy enough to know that that bait is going to work well with the technology they have, they don't need to be told it on the front of the package.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yeah, I mean, nowadays you can literally use a spinnerbait with scopes. We're not gonna go put forward facing optimized on thing spinnerbait on the case.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

I use glides and A-rigs, dude.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah, I mean, the list goes on. So yeah, I I didn't see any of that. Uh, I saw some new minnow baits come out, but like everybody knows, minnow baits you can use as trailers for other things as well. So it's um I I loved seeing that part, and I I'm not intentionally trying to deal. We probably should have just riff wrapped quickly before we got on here. Like, what are what are good?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

I mean, we're on the same page, I guess. We saw the same thing. So I guess people listen to no, we're not lying, because it's the exact same. But the the number three that I had kind of piggybacks off that, and it was just that like these companies and the people that complained about knockoffs over the past three or four years now seemingly have no leg to stand on. So, like that stuff is kind of dying. One, because I think people are tired, like it's played out that argument. We've all heard it a billion times. It's not as cool to complain about knockoffs anymore as it was two or three years ago. But the urchin craze and the fuzzy craze from last year, I think combined, gave everybody who tried to have a leg to stand on to make like the integrity argument. And oh my god, how could anybody do this? They're all making koikies now. So, like it I have a list, uh a notes app list on my phone of probably 72 companies that have made a urchin or koikie style bait over the past like six months because I was ready. I was locked and loaded if any of those people came to iCast and were just like trashing so and so for knocking off some swim bait or something. I was gonna be like receipts I have 72 of you on here that all at the drop of a hat not only jumped on this train but bought them from Timu and put them in different packaging. So uh yeah, I think I think the the days of like the pearl clutching of a bait that comes out that kind of looks like a bait you may have seen 15 years ago is a little gone. You kind of saw it with like GSM had that brush uh oh shoot. I'm gonna get both of these uh baits' names mixed up. I should look them up. But the uh GSM and under the Bill Lewis lineup came out with a crankbait that has wings on it to deflect off of brush a little better. That had been done like 20 years ago, probably. I think it might have been Wardens, maybe somebody made one like that. It was a little different, it had like a scooped belly on it, but it had those wings. Like that was its calling card. And it was like uh Timber, Timber Tiger or something like that. That's what they called him back in the day. But really, you didn't see, you saw, you know, not very many people be like, oh my god, how could they? Because it's just that whole thing, I feel like is kind of played out at this point. And anybody who was trying to make that argument three years ago, I feel like it all started with the Nessie. The Nessie was the first year I saw people just like running around with their hair on fire, losing their mind, pretending like they had heard of grow design works before that. No one knew what any of that was. No one had seen a flag before, but all of a sudden everybody was a JDM expert and cared deeply about this random company in Japan. So yeah, I don't know. I think uh I definitely saw more positive response and less whining and complaining and just crocodile tears on baits that looked like things you'd seen before.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah, because dude, I mean it definitely seemed like the JDM peanut gallery was was quiet as well. Uh, I think maybe because they came to the realization of they're complaining about all this knockoff stuff about Japanese brands when literally every single Japanese brand knocks each other off. Yeah, you kind of arguing a moot point here. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I didn't hear much of that. And it's like consumers, it's like, guys, even if brands knock each other off, for us as consumers, that's fine. We it gives us options, and the best one, best of the best is going to shine.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

That it it scream it louder for the folks in the back. I've I told a bunch of people this weekend I was like, I've never seen an industry complain more about choice, about like, yeah, I've never seen a whinier group of people in a in a business industry as consumers cry about having more options at more price points from more companies.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Unless they're literally stealing from your paycheck somehow, you might have grounds to get mad, but then if you're also the brand that knocks somebody else off, again it goes back to you have no legs to stand on, right? That's just how the industry is right now, and the best will shine. Yeah, uh, yeah, love that. Love that. It's been so nice not hearing that the past year, bro. Uh yeah, yeah, it's been it's been nice, but we say that something else is gonna happen soon. It feels like we've had too long of peace. Yeah, it's coming. Yeah. Uh one Facebook boomer is all it takes. But the third one I had, dude, was, and this goes more tailored to you and I. Um, so for our boat folk, I apologize. But a lot of new kayak brands, and not just new kayak brands that are copying something else, but new kayak brands that are actually thinking about innovating, not just throwing a dang pedal drive in their already made kayak and calling that innovative, that's not innovative innovation to me. But a brand new kayak that they thought out completely outside of the box and emphasize on a pain point of what people wanted that a brand wasn't fixing on their own. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, like the Massa winning, that was awesome. The flux jets there, and literally their demonstration like on the water. I wasn't there to see it, but seeing the content from it, like literally, I was told a story of a woman that got the flux jet into a patch of reeds and then floored it through, like bushwhacked her way through a thing of reeds and had no issue and came out with a huge smile on her face. Like, I'm excited to go give the Massa a try. I'm excited to go give the flux jet a try. Um, I think like there was a little bit of doubters, although this was kind of like the whiny eye cast, I'll call it, when the fluxjet first came out. But I feel like if anything, they just quieted everybody. Um, so I'm I'm really hyped about because I've been saying it for a couple years now. It's like we're building kayaks to be more like bass boats, not innovating on kayaks themselves. And I feel like we're finally going down that path, and it just took new brands to come in to start doing that.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, those are those are two uh good comparisons too. So, like the Massa is more of a refining things that had already been done the past couple years and putting them all into one package. So you have like basically it's got an EPDL in it, like pretty much like it, you know, which Johnson was the first people over at you know, uh Old Town that I saw to do that sort of EPDL style um at like a mass-produced big kayak. And now other people are incorporating that into theirs, but then they've built out other really like feature-rich pieces of this kayak too. So yeah, hats off to them. And then some like Fluxjet, Fluxjet just says, no, let's take it and flip it on its head, and why don't we have a jet-powered or a jet motor kayak ever? And last year, uh Jason, the guy that does it, like I met him for the first time last year, and I was one of those people that I was like, I want this to be good so bad, because I've been, you know, screaming for someone to come in and make a better mousetrap on the uh motor side of things. Like right now, it's Newport, and I wish someone would come in and you know, give Newport a run for their money and just say, no, we can do this and we can do it better, and there's things we can fix, and we can still keep it at that price point and still let you use your own battery. That's still the big pain point. Like there was the e-propulsion motor. Did you see that one that Jeff Little? So I think Jeff Little was working with them. There's there's a there's one that has the battery already in the motor, so it's all one piece. There is no external battery. The battery is literally housed in the motor itself. Obviously, less runtime, you know, it's not going to be your big tournament guys setup, but for regular weekend warriors, it could be perfect. And then they made one that's more like a Torquedo or a Newport that has an external battery. And the features on this thing are sick. Like the throttle is 10 times better than anything I've ever seen. There's nothing to catch yourself on when you stand up. It's really responsive, it's smooth, it's got enough like resistance on it where it doesn't just want to like loosely go forward and backwards. It has an LED display that's a separate thing that you mount somewhere on the kayak that will tell you, like, it's almost like a uh odometer on a car. So you have more like a dashboard somewhere. The only problem is I was all excited for it. I was like, dude, I'll buy one of these tomorrow. You have to use their battery. So it's basically a it's a torquedo, you know, alternative, basically. I'm like, oh my god, you had me. You literally had me ready to like, where do I sign? Put my credit card number down. I will buy one of these tomorrow. Gotta use their own battery. Their battery is a thousand bucks. It's 48 volt, 20 amp hour. I was like, dang it. There you go. You you kind of lost me. But yeah, I mean, I like the idea that there's there's more and more. There were some cool inflatables that came like pre-rigged with motors and stuff on them that were awesome. So yeah, I think the kayak world is getting more options slowly but surely. It might be a slow climb for another two, three, four years. But eventually you're gonna get somebody, you know, there's gonna be more flux jets out there. There's gonna be more people saying this market is big enough as people get priced out of fast boats that we're okay sinking some money and like really doing some RD and finding some cool new options versus the five or six legacy brands we have now.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Yeah, and I think that's why you see a slower growth on the kayak side is just because you're dealing with smaller budgets, you're not dealing with the budgets of giant brands. Um, but yeah, dude, I've been saying it for a couple of years now, like Torquedo. Like, if they can't if they came to us and they're like, We want to bring us a consultant, how do we make this better? You've already nailed the product, just let me use my dang battery, and you're going to own the entire market because the thing is a beast for a stern-mounted motor. It doesn't break, you know, when you turn it on, it's going to work, it's not going to throw 17 different error codes that you have to translate in Chinese to understand. Yeah, and it's like it's it's reliable, dude. Yeah, it's just it doesn't last long or as long as we want it to, I guess, for people that like to go ham on their motors. But yeah, uh, I like I I have it was uh awesome to hear about the e-propulsion. Definitely what I'm gonna be checking out. Hopefully, they are quicker to be less stubborn at than Torquedo in saying you can go use your own battery because I feel like you can do that, you mix the two benefits of the popular brands right now, and you'll have the perfect solution as long as it has the same reliability as like a Torquito does. Yeah. Um, I say that as I've been going more and more bow mounted motors now, which Tarola for me has been bulletproof. Yeah. Um but yeah, it it is cool to see the different options. Um I think we're going down the right direction now. Less kayaks seeming to gear towards like you need to have a motor to use this, you need to have a casting deck like a bass boat. Uh just yeah, uh, we're going on the right path, I feel like, now. And it's cool to see some of these brands come in and be like, hold my beer. Yeah, I can do this.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yeah. Yep. I agree. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Any other takeaways that that you had, dude, from from iCast that I haven't stolen from you yet?

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Um, the black box is dead. That's cool. Yes. I'm excited about that. I think that's a I think that's a bigger deal than people are making it. It's like when Garmin lets go of the black box, it's like that was Humminbird's selling point for a long time. Was like, hey, you know, we're showing. And there's been companies before Humminbird, there was like those Accufy people and people like that that have shown that you can do this without a black box, or the the technology is there, they just, I guess, don't want to do it yet. Um, but now since Garmin has let go of the black box, I think I've never used Lowrance, but Active Target 2, I think, still uses some sort of external box there. But that will be to go soon, I'm sure, because when two of the three do it, you can't be the last one standing that has sure they are doing it now or racing for it. Yeah. So that's exciting. As someone that just, especially kayak guys like us, like a black box is a huge issue for people. Where to mount it, how to keep it safe and dry, and make sure that you know you still have access to it and you're not ruining it and breaking it, and you know, it's it's put in bad situations and it's covered and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I'm excited for that. I think uh everything pushing forward there is a good thing. And also the fact that the Garmin system now has like the automatic, you know, uh when you put it in the water, it turns on. When you take it out of the water, the transducer turns off. That's a big deal, too.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Because it's not good for those transducers to be running out of water, which we all do. I don't know about you. I have never in my life, when I stow, you know, a transducer, gone in manually and turned it off or uh unplugged it or something. No, you just leave it running and you move to your like side imaging screen and it just stays there and you're pretending like it's not running because you're not seeing it on the screen.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Yeah, yeah. That has been one of the big benefits of running Mega Live 2 for me, because I have seen whether people have realized it or not if they own scope or have seen the kind of like behind the scenes the guys that use scope pretty avidly do is they will have systems in their boat to like a fan of sorts to cool the black box down, especially on some long summer days. Yep, that is a real thing. Now, and I'm I'm certain that is why they looked at that and said this is the biggest pain point we have, yep, and obviously came out with a solution for it. Yeah. Uh and the deucer looks I didn't see it in person, so correct me if I'm wrong. But it looks smaller profile.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

I don't think it's smaller than my than like a 34. Okay. But it's it's not like uh oh my god, it's massive either. Like it's it's comparable. Okay. But it's good. Yeah, it's I don't know, for all those people that run Garmin, that you don't have to put like a rocker switch now to be able to manually turn off your transducer, which I think a lot of people probably do if they're pulling up a lot and they're smart. They were probably having some sort of kill switch on there if they knew that you know it was still running and it was bad for it, you don't have to do that anymore. So yeah, little stuff like that, I think, pushes everybody forward, and I think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, absolutely. Um trying to think if there was anything else. Um, obviously at the Koiki Craze, there was a lot of new terminal things that got released, storage things that got released.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Um the fact that they just tried to pretend that they didn't shove fuzzy baits down our throat last year is hilarious. Yeah, like every brand last year had fuzzy this and fuzzy that and dice this and dice that, and they all just were like, Yeah, that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

That's half the reason why and I know that the Koiky stuff has a little bit more staying power than dice does because it's already been around longer, but I I still think that's why everybody's a little bit gun shy, and myself included on all these trends. It's like, I've seen this before. I've seen you tell me this is the next thing and everybody needs it, and everybody does it, and then it just goes away in three months.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Yeah, I am glad I didn't, at least to my knowledge. Again, I could have completely overlooked it, but I didn't hear anything about some new AI chipboard app needing real. No, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Yeah, maybe we can stop trying to make those a thing. Yeah, if it if it didn't catch on, let's just I don't know if I need to know the exit velocity of my cast through my meta glasses. Like, what's that supposed to help me with? I think I'm all right.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

I don't need to know how far I'm casting.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

It's like baseball, it's like the track man system is like the spin rate of your jig as you threw it was yeah, what do I do with this? Why do I have saber metrics on my spinnerbait? This is a terrible cast. Try again. Yeah, you suck. You suck. It's like the you ever watch people do like the flight simulators where it's like terrain, pull up, pull up, like it's just that's great. You suck.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Oh, that's awesome. Well, uh, regardless, it was so good to see everybody down there. Um, I'll have some content coming from it. Uh, that people that I didn't do any of the bait and typical hey guys, here we are, iCast 2026. No, I did more funny stuff, so you'll have that to look forward to on the socials. Keep in touch with that. But uh Tuesday, correct? Your your iCast download.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yep, perfect. It'll be out on Tuesday. It'll probably be multiple hours long. It'll be it'll be a doozy, but it'll be fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Well, dude, I appreciate you taking time. Literally, you just got home from iCast. I got home at midnight uh last night, and uh had to get something out quick for the folks before literally hopefully get this out literally before the show even closes today. Uh but uh either way, dude, appreciate it. It was good to see you. Appreciate the time, and uh, we'll be driving folks over to the deep dive of iCast 2026 here on Tuesday. And we're going fishing this fall. Absolutely. Uh appreciate y'all. We'll see you on the next one. Beauty.