Understanding How to Find & Catch Big Summer Smallmouth Bass

We talk with Lake Erie Smallmouth guide and former Bassmaster Elite Series pro Destin Demarion about how to best find and catch big summer smallmouth bass!

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Destin's Website: https://destindemarion.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, welcome to the Searsanger Podcast, everyone. As always, I'm your host, Bailey Eigbrett, and our main course for you will be, as always, talking and hopefully teaching you more about bass fishing. Right now, Deacon is currently unavailable to join us for today's episode because he's fresh off of another top 10 finish on the BAM Super 60 from the Columbia River. We'll be diving into that finish and that tournament with him as he was in second place in the first two days, um, making the top 10 on the final day, the third day. And we'll be talking about that uh event here in the coming shows for next week. Um, but today you guys are stuck with me. You're stuck with me, but it's gonna be a fun conversation because this is pertaining to summertime, smallmouth bass, and we got our pal, Mr. Destin Demarian, on the show. Destin is a full-time guy out of Lake Erie, former Elite Series pro. I used to travel with Destin a little bit from uh the couple tournaments I did as a co-angler on the Bassmaster Opens. Um, I used to travel with Destin and do media for him when he was on the Elite Series, went to Lake Fork with him. Um, Destin is a foundation of knowledge, a great dude, which makes him an awesome guide because people have a great experience. But uh we actually got to share the boat once this year. And believe it or not, it wasn't even for bass. Uh two bass nerds and we went walleye fishing. But uh Destin is awesome and obviously a great guy to talk to about smallmouth fishing in the summer, just how they how to understand how they set up, finding them from step one to step 10. And uh we talk about some inland lakes, but mostly we talk about some of these big water smallmouth and smallmouth in general. Uh so we'll be breaking that down for you guys on today's episode. But before we do, a couple things for you guys. As we wind down, we'll save our business from the bass boat segment for when Deacon is back. So we have a couple things to run through with you guys. Um, but make sure if you guys are looking for any of the last of summer deals getting into the fall when it comes to boats or you're looking to refinance your boat, make sure you guys reach out to the folks over at Rec Lending. They are the best team to talk to when it comes to doing so. Um, as well, right now, guys, if you're we're getting out of ICAST a few weeks past, you've been hearing about all the baits. And the one thing I keep seeing a lot is I I share in the frustration of not being able to get your hands on a bait when you see it released, or learning that you can't get it for a couple months from now. And that has been like how it's been from years uh past, and likely still going to may uh be the same from years going forward, but that tide is changing. But I want to say right now, uh head over to OmniFishing, okay? Scroll down to the bottom, and you're gonna see in that bottom blue uh bar on the Omni Fishing website there's a tab called New Arrivals. Go to the new arrivals, and you will see there's a bunch of new stuff starting to hit the website. We got the new prop frog that Spro came out with. Um, you have all the new Shimano stuff. We got the new BuzzWagon uh missile baits buzzbait there. You got the new Yamamoto Uni HD, we got Strike King Mag Tumbleweeds, uh the Sakamata Swimmer, the Evo Swim Jig. Uh, there's a bunch of new stuff, as well as some of the new sizes of the Berkeley Amoeba, uh, all the new stuff, and some really cool sneaky JDM stuff has been hitting the website. So refresh that every day. Make sure you guys use our code series10. You can save 10% off your order at OmniA Fishing. But guys, um, it is the dog days of summer, but it is also a great time to go chase smallmouth. That's why you've probably seen a bunch of pro anglers and people in general heading to the north to go and get in some summer fishing because the north is a great time to be in the summer because bass fishing is a little bit easier up here. Let's be honest with you. Smallmouth are obviously very predominantly in the north for the most part, and they're a fun fish to catch. So this episode is tailored all to that. So without further ado, we got a bunch of stuff to get into next week. We'll save that for when Deacon's back here and uh we're gonna dive in with Mr. Destin Demarion talking about some summer smallmouth bass. All right, folks, we're with one of the OGs of Sirius Angler here. Yeah, like probably in the 20s, I think.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Early 20s, that's when you started it, I think. And yeah, it was late at 20. I think it was in 2020 or like late 2019, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, one of the it was before episode 100, that's for dang sure. It was early on.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, I think I was on episode 100. I think I popped in. You had like a little special or something.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah, you've been on quite a few, so we can go list those out. But yes, uh, dude, you are one of the guys, the aficionados, the correspondents that we when we comes to smallmouth fishing that we're always tapping into, uh, and obviously for good reason. If if anybody's looking to come up to Lake Erie and get on some fish, uh Destin is one of the guys to be calling and getting on the boat with. And I'm glad we got to share the boat this year, but it wasn't for bass.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

That's what I was gonna say. I was like, I'm not a bass fisherman, I walleye fish, dude. I'm a I'm a walleye guy now, as you know. Now you're a walleye guy. Uh I think it's actually a perch, but I mean, they're the same thing. Same thing. Same thing. Totally same thing. It's docks, man. David just he loves his pan fish and and walleye and stuff. You gotta give him a hard time about that.

unknown 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Well, I'll see him uh this Sunday, actually, because I told the people in the intro, um, we're actually doing a meetup uh at Docks this Sunday. I got a bunch of tackle I'm gonna offload and give to hopefully some of the youth anglers around the area. So we'll be doing that, uh hosting it at Docks. So we'll hopefully he'll be there. We can I'll tell him Destin was talking crap about him.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah, you should for sure. Tell tell him he's a dirty troller. Dirty troller. I'm totally kidding. No, he's David's awesome. He he actually got me really like in back into like walleye fishing and the fact that like you can cast for him and jig, and like I was like, I don't want to troll and do this and that. He's like, no, no, like the the casting thing is, and he wanted me to come fish a tournament with him at and we did at the islands, and it did pretty good, like the first one I ever did with him, and it was a lot of fun. Like, I'm totally hooked. I love it, I think it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, and I think you got it pretty dialed, dude. It was it was fun sharing the boat and kind of picking your brain uh about all that. And we kind of got into it a little bit when we were on the boat together, but how much has like diving deeper into the wall life stuff help you reversely with smallmouth?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Oh, so much. Like, honestly, you you look back at guys like when live scope was getting popular, and they're like, you know, the best thing to do is go practice crappy fishing, right? Like in the off season. A lot of the guys they were getting good by crappy fishing. And for me, I think it's like kind of the opposite. Like now I'm like getting more into the walleye with the scope and catching them suspended. And I think it's helped me, you know, be more comfortable catching the bass suspended, looking for them, uh, checking for like different behaviors of them and how to like you know jiggle my bait or jig it just a little bit or not too, you know, like not too much. Um, you know, those little subtleties, you know, I just get to practice it a lot when we are walleye fishing. Like I just had a walleye trip today, and these guys have never done it. They're hooked, you know, they love it. They're like, we this is the only way we want to do it, right? They've been on walleye trolling and done that, and now this is like this is what they want to do. And you know, they caught a couple 27, 28-inch walleye, like big, big suckers, you know, and they're they're pumped, you know. That's it's fun, like seeing them react, catch eating your bait, feeling it like not reacting too quickly because you see something happen on the screen, or you know, we're not always catching them off the screen, but it's kind of neat when we do.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah, and the the childish giggle when they're rocketing up at your bait, and you're like, that was just you with the childish giggles.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

I can't help, man. No, I I I love it too. I mean, I just get like giddy like, oh, he's gonna eat, he's gonna eat. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah. Well, it was it was cool to to add on to that, like seeing you work with your active target of like, okay, those are bigger walleye, those are smaller walleye, those are perch, okay, those are drum. Seeing able to the species identification shows how pretty dialed you are, and obviously dialed with the the mechanics of it, because there's only been two times ever have I seen someone scope proficiently with a remote, not the foot pedal. Oh no. Uh it was you and Chris Johnston, and that was the only two people I've ever seen do it. You guys did it very well. So I was very impressed.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I've had to out of necessity, unfortunately. I still don't have that dang foot pedal figured out. So I've been using the remote still. I fished a tournament the other weekend with the remote, which was much more of a pain in the butt. But you know, every day we're just using that remote and able to. It's easier when I'm helping like a client cast at the fish when other than me using the remote and then casting and and doing both. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah, yeah. And what he means by by that is a product issue. Not that Dustin can't use the foot pedal because he's more than capable.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Um but how do you use a foot? I need like a book like for dummies. How do you use a foot pedal? How do you trolling motor? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I still remember sitting on the foot pedal, dude. I didn't even realize that there was an issue. You're like, what's going on? Why is it not moving? He goes, Oh yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah, that thing doesn't move. That makes sense. I'm like, man, this is a new brand, but like I feel like I know what somewhat to do with this trolling motor. You're like, yeah, that's because it's remote.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Does yours have a does your trolling motor and your kayak have a foot pedal, or how do you run it?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

It's remote, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

It's a remote. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

You're used to the remote life.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yeah. Uh so I know a little bit of the remote life, yeah. But dude, talking summer smallmouth, when does for you obviously the spawn comes and then obviously there's especially talking Great Lakes, there's multiple different waves, and you have fish coming and going. When does like the true summer smallmouth bite start for you, in your opinion, especially talking Great Lakes?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, it's a little bit different up in like Buffalo area, kind of like where you are, as opposed to here, water temperature related. You know, the western basin is much shallower, it's warmer. You know, this is a little bit cooler than you know, Buffalo is even that much cooler and behind us typically. So here I would say that early to mid-July is kind of when they settle into that more traditional summertime bite. Uh, you still might even have a wave if you get a full moon and it's been like a later spring, uh, you know, another wave of fish. Not to say that most aren't already in their post-spawn summertime patterns, but you might even get some spawning fish in July. I know that happens even up in Buffalo, too. Um, but you know, that's that's our rule of thumb, you know, summertime up here. Um, any of that bat bite really lasts till I would say mid-September, maybe a little later uh in most years.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, and is is for the people listening, like is this something when you know it's full-blown summertime? Are you only gonna stay deep? Is there still a shallow bite present? How how do you kind of look at it before heading out on the water of what you might be doing for the day?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yeah, typically, um, you know, there can be a shallower bite. I'd say more consistently, the deep deep bite. Um, you know, we get a thermocline here, if even if people don't want to pretend like there is. Um, you know, so fish kind of get in depth zones, and uh, you know, when it gets pushed around, you might get some cooler water and some shallow areas that pulls fish shallow and makes it more advantageous and bait moves in. But typically those deeper areas are a little more stable. So, like in the summertime, you know, those fish want to be around that optimal oxygen-like level. And what happens with the thermocline is like the the water temperature, oxygen kind of stratifies, you know, as it gets warmer, um, and and fish kind of like hover in an area, even more walleye fishing, like when you're out there, right now, like you you can see it like almost all the walleyes, even if I'm in 80 feet of water, they're all sitting in that like 40 to 60, you know, and that that's typically where our thermocline will set up. So, you know, the bass want to be close to that, and and that doesn't really, there's a lot of mixing and wind, you know, early on typically. So that doesn't really set in, I'd say, till uh middle later part of July. Um, you know, a lot of factors can impact that with wind, um, you know, hard winds and things like that. But we're we're typically more out deep, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

And does that thermocline you think help sometimes in regards to breaking down water because you can kind of write off anything that's deeper than that thermocline from a topo standpoint?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, I think typically it does. And if you look at a type topo map and structure, you know, you want the structure to be close in depth to that uh thermocline. And that's gonna help you kind of narrow down sections you want to focus on. Um, as well as like there, there's gonna be fish that are shallower. There are gonna be fish that are deeper too. Um, but it's a good rule of thumb to help narrow down that initial search of where to look. Uh is trying to you know line up where that thermocline is gonna set in and what's some structure, you know, around that, find some good rock, find some good transitions. It might be sand. I know Buffalo's a lot more sand uh, you know, stuff transitions and things like that up there. We've got a lot more rock, chunk rock, you know, drops, you know, humps, things like that, uh, as well as the West Basin. But West Basin is much shallower. Um, that's why it can get tough there. But they've got, you know, they've got flow, you know, with the rivers and Detroit river mouth, and Buffalo's got flow with the Niagara River. So, you know, they they do get a little bit shallower there, you know, I feel like uh usually than in the summertime, even than than here. I feel like our fish generally get a little bit uh deeper and and most of them push push deep.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, and talking about that, like when it comes to the Great Lakes, when it comes to inland fisheries, you could even rope like Malax into that that bucket as well. Of when there's so much rock, there's sand everywhere. Obviously, topo, depending on the fishery, is like there's endless options, it looks like from the outside looking in. For somebody that's going to a body water for the first time, like what is, I guess, if you were to make a priority list of what should they start looking for and how do they know when there's rock for miles of what to be looking for as a high percentage area?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, I think the obvious thing that's gonna stick out, like if you look at Navionics or you know, Lake Master, um, it it's just on the map where you know points jut out and things like that, those are usually gonna be hard structures, you know, especially more narrow ones, it's gonna be more of a like a rock finger, uh stuff like that, where you know, it's only going to be higher because of the rock, because otherwise, you know, the the wind is gonna basically push down and sediment everything in if there's not rock. So if there are like good, you know, up uh humps and things like that, typically there's rock around those. So you can kind of you know start your uh you know, exploration a little bit easier by by focusing on those easy to pick out type stuff. Um, and a lot of those areas are traditionally some of the best areas, but you know, to to find stuff in the Great Lakes that's like off the beaten path, it takes a long, long time of spending time just you know out there in Lala Land, I'll call it. You know, I've spent so much time idling, you know, deck over decade just idling different gridding different sections you know of the lake. And you know, even in Pennsylvania, I have like 14,000, 15,000 waypoints just through here because I want to grid everything that's got structure from Ohio to PA just so I know where things set up so I can go look easier.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Right. And I I like that notion of go look at the obvious stuff first. Um because obviously from there, it's similar in my mind to when you go to a brand new fishery, figure out where the community holes are, and by the community holes you can tell how the fish are reacting that can for the rest of the lake.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Get bites, then you can take that on and and have more confidence to go explore.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Right. Now, say they get out there, they hit a couple different humps, it's got some rock piles on it, and they're only catching two pounders, you know, and they want to go look for those four plus pound class fish. In your experience, is that a go find a new area thing? Is that a change of bait selection thing? What what typically would would be your move for for somebody that is stuck with the two-pound curse?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, I I mean you can be an area that just got all kinds of sizes of fish. Uh more so, at least here, when you're catching bigger fish, there's bigger fish, you know, in those areas, or if there's a bunch of small fish, that's just that's what there is. The big fish might be near, but you might need to just move a little bit and just kind of find that you know sweet spot of where those bigger fish are are kind of homing themselves. And it might be the prime piece of structure or isolated structure that's you know around there, because obviously there's food, there's there's good conditions if there's fish in there, but you know, what is holding those bigger than average fish and finding those, you know, more needle in the haystack off the beaten path type stuff, I think is more consistent for getting consistently big bites. Not to say you can't get bigger bites and when tournaments do get off of community holes, you can, but I think you have more of a chance um to really catch a big bag, you know, if you do have those off the off-the-wall needle in the haystack spots. That's what I try to do. Yeah, and that's what I try to do, you know, here in Buffalo and even in the West Basin when I fish tournaments, like I've just spent time trying to find stuff where there's no boats, you know, where nobody's fishing.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, plus there's a little more mental sanity to go fish those two because you're not watching everybody else rope them too. Yes. Yeah. And so I want to pitch this over to you as well. There's a obviously, besides like early spring and fall, where it seems like every fish kind of groups together for the most part. Um, Benjamin Nowak, who has been on the show plenty of times, I'm sure you know Ben from Michigan, um, had taught me this thing that I I feel like has proven true uh in theory of when you find say you find a group of bass that are all three, four pounders, and you're looking for that five, six-pound class fish. That in most cases he's found that if you're looking for that bigger class fish, that they're not far away within maybe a couple hundred feet, and they typically like to live alone because of a territorial standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Almost like a largemouth, right? It's almost like this is my log, you know, like this is this is my spot. Stay away from my house. Dang kids.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So you found that you would agree with that theory 100%.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, I I do. I mean, like I've fished a lot of tournaments on Erie and Great Lakes in general, but Erie, I'd say more so. And most of the spots that consistently produce big fish are not places I'm gonna catch a lot of fish, but when I do get a bite, it's a big fish, you know, it's the right fish.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah. And that that's a part I think the average angler can sometimes have a hurdle with because it's the concept of less bites, but you're going to with the ones you do catch will be bigger. And it's almost like a speaking for me, my ADHD, my impatience comes into play where it's like, I'm not getting bites. You kind of go back to those little ones. Where it's like you kind of almost would you say have to put your nose to the grind zone and accept that you might go two hours without a bite if you want to get one of those bigger class fish.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, it is. Because like I get a lot of clients who are like, I want to catch a big fish, like, especially in the summer. I'm like, easy there. I was like, let's break this down. I was like, if you want to catch a big fish, be ready to be very patient, right? Be very patient and be ready to only get a handful of bites, right? Because if we want to target big fish, we're going to do something different than just getting bites. And not that just getting bites, we won't run into some, but if you want to target big fish, that is a totally different thing. And that's what we do in tournaments. Like even here, I mean, it's tough. It's a tough uh summertime tournament place. But you know, when we've had good tournaments, I mean sometimes we've caught 30, 40 fish, but typically we're fishing for eight to ten bites all day. But when you get a bite, it's a four-plus pounder. It's a good one, you know, it's always a good one.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah. And it's it's very similar to you know, some of the our Texas boys that are you know, guides they try to let their client know they're like, because you know, everyone that's never been to Texas before, they have this preconceived notion, like, oh, we're going to Texas, we're gonna catch 10, 10 pounders. Let's go, like, we're gonna smoke them. But they kind of like make their clients know, like, hey, if you want to go catch a giant, we might get two bites a day.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Musky fishing, the muskie fishing area. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and that's hard. Like most people you're like, oh, I want to do both. I want to catch big ones and numbers. Well, you you can in the spring and the fall, but summer is not just like flipping a switch, like it doesn't just happen like that because they're so much more scattered. Like in this in the spring and the fall, they're they're all condensed, they're all in condensed areas where they're just you can catch tons and tons of fish and they're all you. know good fish, you know, ranging in sizes, but they'll be mixed and you can catch all kinds of fish. But summer typically you're you're grinding through you know a long day of of targeting the right structure to get the right bites if you're fishing that way.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah. Now for that person that's going out and trying their hand at the Great Lakes or you know place like Millax, things like that, just in general across the board, if you had three rods on deck baits, rod reel line, all that jazz, what would you be bring uh be bringing out?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Always a drop shot. I think that's a bread and butter, especially on Great Lakes. But Millax, I'm sure it's it's big. I've only fished there once, but it's it's a cool fishery. It's similar, like a lot of rock and just you know a bowl. I would say a Ned Rig and a jig minnow like a jig head minnow some kind of bait that you can stroll like in the water column. I think it's a good presentation to potentially get a kicker, you know, a big bite. You might not get a ton of bites and depending on you know how they're relating to forage I I think that jig jig minnow can catch a multiple like good fish but I think it's a wild car to always catch a big one and the other two are going to pick up about anything. You know they're gonna catch either.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah. I I feel like smallmouth fishing in the summer especially great lakes specifically you can be as simple or as complicated as you want to be there's the chalk that will work but you can definitely get freaky if you want to get freaky.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Get freaky yes yeah yes I've tried about all the freaky stuff and more often than not I'm like all the time I've spent doing I'm like you know what it's pretty simple. It's finding them is the hardest part like finding those gold mine juice holes is the hardest part. When you find those I tell Tyler I've told him that was like no one's cast a bait on these fish until I cast a bait on them in the summer like they're dumb. You just gotta hope they're there right they're set up like so they bite. It's just are they there?

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Right. Once you find them it doesn't really matter what you throw at them.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Most well if they're not pressured yeah right if they're pressured you got to get freaky as you said. And I have had to get freaky a little bit even a tournament I fished last summer we were on a community hole to start I like to go pluck you know a couple good ones if I can you know and then keep going. But um most of the people never even had a limit that day. I think I sat there with Tyler and we caught like 30 and we came back and I caught another five you know later in the day. And everyone's like oh we haven't caught a bass in three hours but I there was like a bait that I was using that I had modified greatly that just was getting more bites. And you know it's still working um this year and it's it takes me time to make it but it's worth it because it gets you more bites when there fish are pressure.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And that's more evidence of where taking the time to do a little bit of tinkering can actually pay off in the end. But um it it is a fun time especially speaking I know this is the topic of today is summer but in that spring and fall is very fun when it doesn't really matter what you have time on as long as you find them. We've had some fun days out on Erie that's for sure. But when it comes to and I wanted to briefly touch on this because I I want to keep it brief because I feel like it's a more complex topic talking about inland smallmouth because there's so many different fisheries that range in how you approach it from finger lakes in New York to Tennessee or Alabama smallmouth like it's so much different. Forage and river systems that's a whole new ballgame and you're dealing with grass and things of that nature um but I guess just from that because I know there's gonna be people that ask is how much different do smallmouth from an inland fishery standpoint behave than summer Great Lakes fish?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah um just from finger lakes I'll I'll use as an example you know there's grass so I mean they relate to the grass they suspend their chasing owl wives which I think they do here too. It's just much harder to find them because there's so much water so much water and there's been times I've been able to find them but good you can't bank on that. They just leave you know I'll go back the same waypoint for 10 years and they're just never there again. Like they were just there because the bait was there. That's it. They never go back so I think like on the you know the finger lakes and Tennessee river they get on places where even current um you know is setting up especially like those reservoirs like you know that's much more of an impact of when they're generating water like you know generating electricity um it's night and day you know we're our we've got west to east current from the Detroit River and natural current to the Niagara but you know much of the current is is wind driven you know here so so it changes things um you know on the Great Lakes uh a lot of the wind direction is is is paramount on where those fish are going to position uh you know on structure as opposed to like Tennessee River where you know when they're generating current they're setting up on this side of the the bar or the you know that or whatever. So it's a little bit different in that regard as well as forage you know what they're chasing makes a huge difference in how they behave. And the finger lakes have a ton of Alwive you go to Canadian lakes you know the Cisco and and all that other kind of stuff it's just it's just different. They behave differently and we have gobies you know that's that's unique too and that makes a lot of those fish very bottom oriented you know and and that that changes they act a lot differently you know a lot of places where they're just blowing up topwater all over like Champlain um you know all summer they're eating alwise and blowing up in 60 feet of water like it just doesn't happen really much here.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah yeah I mean that's speaks to uh several of the finger lakes as well that not I mean some of them it's actually interesting some of them are still your alwife chasing lakes topwater lakes now some of them are hybrids that have gobies in them because they get entered through the canal systems exactly yeah Cayuga's a prime example and now you have two like hybrids that they're doing both and you have some that have had gobies around for a while that they don't do the schooling thing anymore and they're like a gobi oriented Oneida. Yeah that's a prime example of a place I mean I don't mind talking about because everyone knows now it's like Oneida used to be a drive around and find the seagulls that's where I learned that guys would do the bread trick where they would be running down the lake and throw bread out the side to distract other anglers because seagulls would die on the bread. That is very sneaky I've no very sneaky uh I was taught about that and that was that was one hilarious uh but that's how that place used to be you don't it doesn't happen anymore.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

It's very oriented acres just erupting with fish you know schooling and blowing up and you're just like oh my gosh where do I throw boom boom like they just start busting around or they just wouldn't bite because they're so pressured you know when they're busting which is crazy because almost all places you go like if they're busting like that they just eat it but it's totally different fishery than it was.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah and and speaking on that I want to translate that to the Great Lakes especially and ask like I know Oneida from my experience across the finger lakes has one of the craziest Mayfly hatches every year where to the point where it's like almost impossible to get bit. It's kind of gross how many Mayflies are actually dead on that lake. I've been there when it's like that yeah it's a wild thing to see does the Great Lakes have anything like that any windows like that that time of year?

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah we we get a good Mayfly hatch I'd say late June through early to mid-July um and it can make it more challenging you know when when they are on the Mayflies uh a lot of times those smaller fish will be on the Mayflies especially shallower and they'll be they'll be thick but they're you know they're two pounders three pound fish and and finding the bigger ones that aren't fed up you know that that can be a little more challenging that time of year. You gotta kind of find some fish that are further along maybe just not keying on the Mayflies and feeding on different forage to to do better and catch you know bigger fish.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah and if it's I feel like that's one thing like if they're smaller fish predominantly targeting the Mayfly stuff from a tournament standpoint that might almost be a better because some people might be distracted with that but if you know they're all small fish it writes off all of that for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah and I don't think you can like completely avoid it I mean because the Mayflies come out of the bottom right so they're just coming out up through the water column so they're getting gulped all over uh the place but it it does seem like most of the ones that are spitting up mayflies are the smaller fish. Not that the bigger ones don't eat them walleyes eat them. Everything will eat them because they're just plentiful.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

But it just seems like a lot of the smaller ones key in on that specifically because so easy you know it's just abundant I I remember one day on a night I was figuring out how to get them to bite in the Mayfly hatch and I had caught like I think 12 at that point and I looked down at my shirt and I looked like a flower girl in a wedding because how many mayflies were just like spit up because they would like shake their heads and you get them in the boat and they're just like Mayflies all over you and it's just like the grossest thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Uh it yeah it's wild ordeal. At least it was coming out of that end and not not the other very true at least the Mayflies are still white at that point.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah uh dude talking about wind direction like you you mentioned it briefly there how that's paramount especially in the the Great Lakes and I've had a couple buddies that were coming up from the south this year to go fish Ontario and St. Lawrence and they're like oh it's an east wind it should be pretty flat calm so we should be able to get around and I'm like hey just let you know like Great Lakes when the when a wind blows the east the fish bite the least that's like huge in the Great Lakes and so I guess for that like what is what is the worst wind to have obviously beyond a 30 mile an hour wind but like what is the best wind direction what's the worst wind direction like what is ideal yeah east is is not typically that good um especially if it's blowing hard because it typically is blowing against the natural current um and just there's other factors with barometric pressure and and how those it's above my head but I just know that when it does get an east wind almost everywhere I've ever fished like in tidal rivers and everything it just messes stuff up.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

And I've seen on St. Lawrence River you know it's blowing against the current you know whichever way you know I think it yeah it goes west east um so it's blowing against the current it's it's hard to drift it's hard to present your bait properly because you know your boat's going one way and the bait's going the other way and you know those kind of things and honestly here like I don't feel like they position properly on structure and they they don't necessarily get where you think they should uh to feed and and it makes it tougher for that reason. I I like west I like you know south southerly or west even northwest is okay um but those are the typical ones that that I like and I think most people that fish you know the Great Lakes like that too um or anywhere just east wind northeast wind it's just it's just typically just not good.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yeah. Is there like for especially talking to the Great Lake folk I know there's some we know some crazy people that will go out regardless you know as long as it's not 17 foot waves uh there's been many occasions where we're like oh man it's terrible out there there's no way to get out there and then you call Jeff Hippert and he's like oh yeah it's great out here we're catching him just Jeff being Jeff or Andy's riding out into the the sunset like in his 19 foot camis and five footers just with client or in his old Triton dude his little Triton he was scooting out there.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Uh but yeah is there like a max when it comes to that win that you'll be like eh maybe we won't go today yeah especially with clients like I have a totally different mindset with that if it's going to be really bigger than four feet like eh we're we're gonna be questioning whether we're gonna go or where can we hide that's gonna be a little less um and still catch fish which we have to do a lot in the fall because the fall just blows like crazy and even summer like a couple days ago we had storm roll through and it was three to five footers like it was ripping. So it was we had to adjust and kind of get some protection you know from the peninsula and stuff like that just to be able to you know effectively fish. So if I'm just going out for myself if I see it's you know three or three to five footers I'm like nah I'm not gonna go or I'll go hide somewhere or largemouth fish or do something different. But you know I last year we fished the Canadian tire open you know Alec and I get to the mouth of Erie from Niagara Falls and six footers you know right in your face and we went out into it and we see 18 19 foot boats out there when we get out there I'm like you guys are crazy. But you know we fished everybody was fine no one had any issues and it they're rollers I mean if you're an experienced navigator and and know your equipment and even then I mean there's nothing guaranteed but you you got to be very careful because this these lakes will humble you and mess you up. Yeah you got to take your time like that's the biggest thing like don't drive like you're you know it's flat calm you got to take your time you don't want to get swamp you don't want to break stuff off of your your boat and have everything in shambles and you can't even fish like I've learned that when I was younger like this I don't need an extra five minutes I need to be there and and be able to fish effectively and not have my trolling motor hanging off like it just doesn't help like just barreling through the waves and getting soaked and you know your build run and all yeah it's just it's just not smart. Yeah I I know this is a much easier tutorial when you're in person you can actually so show somebody how to drive through stuff like that but for the people if you were to try to describe one way of like a tip to drive in rough water like that like a mentality or a way to look at things is there something that can help people that are going into big water for the first time yeah definitely pay attention to how you're going into the waves like if if they're rollers you want to go up and down or in the troughs um it's gonna be ultimately safer usually you want to keep your bow up so you're not spearing as many waves right keep your bow up go slow you know slow down if if you're gonna go over wave too hard you know ease off and then let up and and get up you know the next wave and just you know be smart you know don't don't push it too hard it's not worth it it really is not I've seen too many issues with people having broken things and sinking boats and and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

We always hear about the uh the boat yard at uh the after the Lake Ontario St.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Lawrence Champlain even event champlain's rough uh just ripped off trolling motors graphs that flew off brackets it's yeah bolt shearing off of yeah jack plates and power poles hanging off and yes all of that somebody have like a full console come off recent years oh yeah but I remember somebody had their graph literally like fly off their bow and hit them in the face and like all all kinds of like crazy stuff and just ripping rods a wave comes over rips all the rods like it pulls the strap off and rips all the rods off the side um I've had a wave rip when I forgot to like put on my strap and boop take off you know some rods and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Oh jeez. Yeah it's an expensive mistake slow down to very uh well dude as we start wrapping this up I got two things left for you uh one is what is the biggest mistake you think that anglers make going to a target smallmouth on the big water I would say not um not exploring off the beaten path enough I think a lot of that's time restricted and people are going on vacation they just want to get into fish and stuff but I think spending that little bit of time to really find some stuff that's off the beaten path um can really make you have a much better experience uh when you do you know come to the Great Lakes.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

I would say the other thing just paying really attention to uh the environmental stuff. So water temperature because of you know lakes flipping and water getting pushed around and uh paying attention to that it will really help wind direction like we talked about like those kind of environmental factors as well as you know algae blooms and all those things kind of all tie together and give you a more cohesive picture. And if you're not taking into account all of those you might still be scratching your head like what's going on I'm doing this I'm doing that but like oh yeah I didn't really take this into account or I didn't look at my graph when I was in this area and it was colder you know then or warmer like what what's going on? Like I just don't I'm not bringing it all together. And I think it's so complex yet can be simple but with all the different factors of the Great Lakes and how big they are and dynamic like taking all those factors into account I think is is one that a lot of people don't don't do and it's important.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

I like it. Well dude last question for you it's very important probably the most important question of the show uh and that is uh how do you cook your walleye?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Oh you gotta bread them man you know you were sending me pictures after after we went I was like yo you you you got it figured out we just had some two nights ago I just had a few uh left over and caught some fresh ones was like let's have some walleye and they were phenomenal perfect is there a specific seasoning that you you gravitate towards no I I mean I'll have to ask you on your opinion but my wife is like literally a cook where she doesn't even keep a recipe she'll just like do something different every time and it's like well this is great but like it'll never be the same you know the next time but it's always good it's just yeah like she likes to just kind of go off the cuff so she'll make like a different kind of breading and and fry it up and it's always always good but what what's your favorite one?

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Uh types go with the the old uh olive oil and and breading um like panko what is it like panko breadcrumbs. Yeah just kind of like your standard I'm trying to remember the one that uh shore lunch is another one that's good. Yep. Um but I know my buddy Forrest would be screaming at me right now if I didn't mention that doing breading with mustard. That's a pretty good one. Uh it's that very southern bumpkin style of doing it apparently according to him that's his words not mine. But there's a bunch of do it. People would say like salt and pepper and breading or salt and pepper but yeah I I need to expand my horizons uh when it comes to that but well if it's good I mean roll with it but yeah it doesn't hurt to add a little pizzazz once in a while a little pizzazz get freaky all the all the time yeah get get freaky whatever whatever if you want to get freaky with your breadcrumbs I mean get get to it man yeah with those cheeks that's right yeah hey we we talked about this we need to make this a teacher so our walleye folks let us know but I was joking but the more I thought about it we should really make this a teacher but for the walleye guys it's a teacher says I'm just here for the cheeks it's it's an amazing teacher.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah that would be the cheeks are phenomenal that is that is the scallop of this of the Great Lakes for sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yes yes and for all the parents that might be driving their kids to school listening to this right now it's not what you think. If you don't know walleye you can take the cheeks like the actual face cheeks out of walleye and they are delicious.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

It's like a little circle you cut out and it looks like a scallop.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yes yes it's very good love it well dude uh always a pleasure uh glad we got the share of the boat we'll have to make it happen again this fall oh we will appreciate the time my friend yeah man thanks for having me it's been a while I'm I'm happy to be back all right guys and that's gonna do it for today's episode of Serious Angler with Mr. Destin Demarion breaking down some summer smallmouth bass fishing hopefully you guys enjoyed that one uh guys I got a quick favor to ask you and and that is we are sitting right now which is crazy even though it's we're coming up on uh is it seven years of serious angler being a thing uh back in August 2019 so yeah seven years um we only have 198 reviews on Apple Podcasts when we have upwards 5,000 more people listening to these shows so I'm challenging you right now go to Apple Podcasts if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a rating and review. Okay and I know we we owe some people some stickers I have a handful that just came in if you guys leave us a rating and review take a screenshot of it send it over social or email and we'll mail those Sears Angler stickers out to you guys. We're trying to get uh more rating and reviews because honestly guys what that does for us is it shows the the platform the podcast more on Apple or Spotify which helps more bring more people to this platform which helps us do more for you guys in turn so we do have some cool things in the hopper that we're working on right now uh we have revamped or revamped revamped the lure lab we started posting new shows on there so if you guys are uh interested in some more bait specific quick hitting 10 minute uh or less content tune over to lure lab deacon uh myself as well as potentially some new people will be helping uh over on that side of things but a great episode mr destin and marion we'll link a couple of his favorite smallmouth baits and his uh link to his website if you guys are looking to um look for a guide up on the Great Lakes to get you on some smallmouth destin's a great one to go to uh we'll leave all that in there in the show notes but uh as always folks appreciate y'all thank you for taking time out of your day and we'll see y'all on the next one