#21 Let's learn about SKALE Protocol w/Dante

Summary: SKALE - Enhancing Web3 Gaming Infrastructure

Major Themes:

• User Experience and Scalability: Dante from SKALE emphasizes the network's focus on user experience and scalability. SKALE offers zero gas fees, instant finality, super low latency, and nearly unlimited scalability. These features enable developers to create "invisible blockchain experiences," where the game feels like a traditional web 2.0 game but leverages the benefits of blockchain technology.
• Multi-Chain Support: SKALE supports a multi-chain approach without requiring exclusivity from developers. This approach encourages developers to choose what's best for their projects, allowing them to target both web3-native users and traditional gamers.
• Community Engagement: SKALE has seen significant growth, with around 10 million active wallets and tens of millions of transactions each month, largely driven by its gaming ecosystem. The network's growth is attributed to its ability to offer a better, more user-friendly experience for gamers.
• Technology Infrastructure: SKALE'S infrastructure is designed for user-friendly blockchain experiences, enabling features like NFTs, in-game transactions, and on-chain leaderboards without the complexities often associated with blockchain gaming.
• Grants and Support: SKALE offers a unique grant program aimed at subsidizing costs for developers and supporting user acquisition. Unlike other networks, SKALE's grants are focused on long-term sustainability and growth rather than short-term incentives.

Memorable Quotes:

• "SKALE really specializes in helping developers create experiences that look and feel exactly like a web 2.0 experience while still being able to have all the inherent benefits of building on top of a blockchain." - Dante
• "The experience that SKALE enables is one where friends and family who have never touched a blockchain before can come on and experience your game...without needing to know what bridging or a wallet is." - Dante
• "The people that are going to succeed are the ones that are able to obfuscate blockchain out in the background and allow the users to just come in and play the games." - Dante

Actionable Takeaways:

• Consider SKALE for Web3 Gaming Projects: Developers looking to create user-friendly blockchain games should consider SKALE's infrastructure, which supports scalable, zero-gas-fee blockchain applications.
• Leverage SKALE's Grant Program: Explore SKALE's grant program for support in development costs and user acquisition strategies. SKALE's approach prioritizes sustainable growth and developer success.
• Embrace a Multi-Chain Strategy: SKALE encourages a multi-chain strategy for projects aiming to reach both web3-native and traditional gamers. This flexibility allows developers to tailor their projects to diverse audiences without being restricted to a single blockchain ecosystem.

This episode of the Token Takeover podcast offered insights into SKALE's approach to enhancing the web3 gaming experience, highlighting the importance of user-friendly blockchain applications and the benefits of SKALE's supportive ecosystem for developers.

Follow us on Twitter - https://twitter.com/GamingStartUp_

Transcript

NoAutopilot: 0:00

Hey, this is Noah Autopilot, host of the Token Takeover podcast and founder of the Gaming Startup Collective. In today's episode, we're sharing a conversation with Dante over at Scale. Learn about the emerging tech coming out of that team, as well as what applications it has for your Web3 game. All right, enough of me talking. Let's jump in. Why, hello, hello. You can hear me? Yeah, what's up man?

Dante: 0:26

How are you? I'm, I'm doing well. Last time we spoke, my dog chewed up my AirPods. And now I went to AppleCare. So now I can hear you guys and have an amicable conversation. I'm really excited.

NoAutopilot: 0:37

Right on, man. Hopefully the, uh, hopefully the dog doesn't try and, uh, thwart our conversation. Yeah,

Dante: 0:44

he's, he's taking a nap right now. He's, he's a good boy. I made sure to run him around a little bit before this call. So we're all, we're all good.

NoAutopilot: 0:49

I'm, I'm excited. That's part of his, that's part of his trap, man. He's like looking at you out of like. You know, the crack of his eye when you're not looking. Well, then it's great to have you here. Thanks for, uh, thanks for swinging through to the community.

Dante: 1:01

Yeah, I'm excited. I've already, I've already gotten a few DMs from, uh, from your community and they all, as, as per usual, seem awesome. So I'm here to answer questions and I'm here to, to learn more about what you guys are up to. Uh, I'm going to sit back and shut up and just let you take the reins, man.

NoAutopilot: 1:18

Yeah. So I'll kind of set the scene a little bit. So we bring in guest speakers, uh, two to three times a week, you know, have a series of questions. That, that we're trying to find answers for. These sessions are recorded and then I get them up on the YouTube. I rip the audio out and put it up on our podcast. And we'll go ahead and we'll kind of pull out little cool snippets and share it across, uh, across Twitter as well. So these, again, like these sessions, like the whole intention is just like a blockchain conference after event bar vibe. So very, very relaxed. Love it. So, okay. So, Hey, what's up Colin? Thanks for joining. So let's start here. So the folks, uh, and no, that's, that's fine. Dante, I'll get, so for the folks who don't know you or scale, can you kind of give us a quick, quick introduction?

Dante: 2:00

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Dante. I run ecosystem at scale. And that essentially means that I get to talk to really, really smart builders building cool things and make sure that they. Have all of the resources that they need scale wise in order to be successful. So, you know, this includes talking to builders, getting them fast tracked into our grant program, making sure that they have all the support that they need from the scale community and the scale team in order to succeed. So it's really, really fun. Cause like I said, I enjoy talking to smart people, building cool things. And I especially excited about this because I think that. Especially when we talk about gaming scale is a really, really amazing technology to share with these gamers. Cause I would not be doing what I am doing today. If I did not believe that scale and technology could genuinely benefit every single person who is building a game out there, whether it be a web two game or a quote unquote web three game. Um, but I digress. So scale in general, for those who have not. heard of us. First of all, I recommend that you go check us out. Like my, my rule of thumb in this space is that this is blockchain. So don't believe a word I say, go verify everything that I'm about to tell you for, for yourself. But scale in general, if I want to use all of the jargon of blockchain, I say that we are an EVM compatible scalability solution that is natively multi chain or app specific. Truthfully, I don't really like describing scale this way. I think it's Kind of a mouthful and doesn't really tell you what you need to know. The way that I like describing scale is that we are a blockchain network that was really built for two things primarily, and that is user experience and scalability, right? And for those of you who have been in the space for a while, I'll talk to a lot of other networks. You probably have heard these buzzwords before, but the difference with scale is that every single thing that happens on this network has zero gas fees. Instant finality, super low latency, and pretty much unlimited horizontal scalability. And those features are really cool. But what you guys as the game devs, as the game designers of the builders, particularly use these features for is to essentially build out invisible blockchain experiences. And what I mean by that is that scale really, really specializes in helping developers and builders create experiences that look and feel and interact exactly like a web two experience. While still being able to have all the inherent benefits and features and values of building on top of a blockchain. And so a lot of the people that are coming over to scale in terms of game devs are not only looking to target those web three native web three D gen folks, but more importantly, target those web to web 2. 5 type of gamers. Because when you think of the traditional blockchain game, you need to. No, it's on a blockchain. You need to oftentimes have a wallet. You need to oftentimes go through the KYC process to fund that wallet with a specific type of token, connect it, sign transactions, yada, yada, yada. That's not the experience that scale enables. The experience that scale enables is one that you go in there and you feel like it is a WIMP2 experience, right? Your friends and family who have never touched a blockchain before in their lives can come on and experience your game in a way that's Where they can take advantage of all of the blockchain features and benefits, but they don't necessarily need to know what bridging is, or a wallet is, or NFT is. And I'm, you know, happy to show you guys demos of what this looks like. But all we are is a blockchain infrastructure that allows you guys, as the builders, to be able to build the experiences that you think are genuinely best for your users, without needing to build around or conform to the standard limitations of a blockchain. Right. And as a result of this type of user experience and scalability and performance, we've seen a tremendous increase or, you know, a boom of, of game devs coming over the scale in the last year or so. Right. Coin Gecko just recently released a report that said that scale was the number one blockchain in the world for gaming. We have about 10 million active wallets in the network. The vast majority of those are gamers and we're continuing to onboard new games and new gamers every single day. And the reason for these numbers are really just the fact that you can. Fundamentally build better, more performant, more user friendly type of experiences on scale than you can pretty much anywhere else in the world. So I know that that was a very, very long high level overview. So I want to, you know, just sit back and answer any questions that you have or that your community has. No,

NoAutopilot: 6:07

Manny

Dante: 6:07

did

NoAutopilot: 6:07

great. Hey, are you a builder? Looking for grants to build your ideal web3 gaming startup? If so, you should take a look at the Arbitrum Grant Program, with grants up to 25, 000 and a specific focus on supporting early stage indie game devs. It could be the perfect fit. Link is in the description, make sure to check it out. Now back to the podcast. Quick shoutout, welcome Building the Wharf, welcome 1208, Colin, you get another shoutout. Quick question, can you hear my dog snoring in the background? No, can you hear mine? No, okay, cool. All right, we're good to go. So I gotta make sure. Okay. So I've been in the blockchain industry now for, for about three years. It seems like scale just like blew up outta nowhere. I don't know, maybe in like the last year or so I could have been out of the, out of the circle. Can you kinda share a little bit about like, scales? Origin story. Like why was it founded? What gaps did they see? I guess anything interesting there.

Dante: 7:01

Absolutely. So started in late 2017, early 2018. So there we have two co founders. One on the more technical side, our CTO, his name is Stan Kladko. He is, I mean, I'm Don't take this lightly, probably one of the smartest people that I've ever met in my entire life. He's, you know, Stanford PhD, Los Alamos labs, physics, genius trained in cryptography under Dan Bonet, just a very, very, very smart person. On the other side, we have Jack O'Halloran is another one of our co founder of the lab side of things. He is sort of an experienced Silicon Valley vet. He's, you know, done everything from consumer tech to AI and everything in between what happened in terms of the founding of scale was that Stan being, you know, the genius he is came up to, to one of the venture capitalists that's actually funding us and said, Hey, you know, I have this incredible idea for all of these different applications. That we can build on chain. And this is what I want it to, to look like. And when he started talking with, with Jack, what they realized is that the power is not in all of these applications, but it's under the underlying infrastructure. So Sam was like, Hey, I have all these, you know, really cool ideas for watching applications and here, here's how they're going to work, but no, quickly it became, all right, it's not the applications that are powerful. It's the underlying architecture that powers it. And so scale came to me because we realized that current blockchains are not really built for scale. Like inherently most monolithic blockchains. Are, you know, built in a way where it's almost an anti economy at scale, right? The more users that you add inherently, the slower that the network becomes and the more expensive gas fees become. And that is, that's not a scalable model at all. And I think that, you know, that was something even in 2017, 2018, that was like a blaring, blaring red flag for the industry as a hurdle that we needed to overcome before we achieved mass adoption. And so the, the approach that we're taking is very, very similar to what you saw You know, the revolution of cloud computing or consumer technology, specifically within, in the context of communication, right? Like we all remember the days where we have to pay for every single text and every single phone call that you made. And what made it worse is that in blockchain, when the network got congested, it became more expensive to send communication and to send transactions. So we realized that that was a terribly, terribly inefficient system. And so the solution that we have was fundamentally from day one, we were Designed to solve that scalability in a way that no one else at the time had even thought of. And what we quickly realized is that not only does it solve issues with scalability, but almost more importantly, it solves a lot of issues with user experience, right? Because you can have a super, super scalable network, but if no one's going to use it, um, and so those were sort of the two facets that we decided to focus on moving forward. Scale as we know it today, sort of V2 launched in June of 2022. And like I said, you know, since then. We have onboarded about 10 million active wallets. We are doing tens of millions of transactions every single month. Our user growth has, has really, really skyrocketed. And none of this really is from gimmicks like AirDrop. So all of this is just from, Hey, you know, we got a bunch of really, really brilliant engineers together. And we have built a product that we genuinely believe is going to help people. And so we've been very, very, You know, focused on helping devs build the best version of their product they possibly can. And that's the reason for, for our success is that our games are able to onboard users like no other games are. And the developers are, are finding it much, much easier to actually build out scalable architecture than,

NoAutopilot: 10:22

like I said, pretty much anywhere else in the world. Fire, man. That's tremendous. So folks, you know how this works, too. If you have any questions, feel free to drop them in the chat. I can read them for you. If you want to ask your question up on the stage, we don't bite. Feel free to come on, come on up. Okay, so we had a call, uh, I guess earlier this week, and one thing that really stood out to me was Scales posture on being Multi chain. Uh, I don't have the, the graph here, but the, the vast majority of our members are bootstrapped. Maybe they've chosen their first chain, or they haven't chosen a chain to build on yet. And oftentimes when they look at like grant programs, that type of thing, it really is like, if we give you this, we expect you to only kind of work within our ecosystem. And so that really stood out to me. I guess, if you don't mind, can you share, uh, I guess your team's reasoning behind that?

Dante: 11:15

Yeah, so just to provide additional context for those of you that are listening, Scale does not have any type of exclusivity agreement. We never have and we probably never will. And the reason for that just sort of comes down to the ethos of why we're doing what, what we're doing, which is, you know, we are here to help builders succeed and grow. If you are a builder that thinks that your game or your gap would benefit from going multi chain and being live on multiple networks, fantastic, right? We have many games on scale that are live on multiple different networks. We also have games on scale that are just live on one, just live on scale. And, you know, when you ask those people why they say, Oh, you know, it's because we think that scale has the best technology and no one can do what we want to do. On, on scale, and that's totally fine too, right? At the end of the day, we want you guys to do what is genuinely best for your application. Our structure of having zero gas fees and everything like that, and really sort of also changes the incentive structure on how we work with DApps, right? Most networks want you to come over to their network because they make money off of every single transaction that happens via gas fees, right? So oftentimes they'll sort of try to bribe you to come over. With grants or gas offset fees and things that just are not the most sustainable, to be very frank with you. And that's fine if you're, you know, a short term focused person, but like at scale we're long term, we, we want to focus on not only on where your game is going to be at a month, but where your game is going to be in five years. in 10 years. And so everything that we do here is very, very sustainable. And when it comes to the multi chain thing, like, that's what you think is best for you. That's fine. In fact, we, sometimes we even encourage it for those who are going after more web 3d gen type of audiences, because what happens is, you know, you'll go multi chain and you'll be live on scale and all these other networks. And soon people will realize like, Oh, why would I pay gas? If, you know, If I don't have to and oftentimes it becomes almost a competitive advantage in the game. And so we see a lot of users, a lot of gamers moving over from other networks to scale, just because it provides them with a clear and obvious advantage. Uh, so, you know, like I said, we have no exclusivity agreements. We probably never will. All our concern is, is that you guys are doing what you genuinely feel.

NoAutopilot: 13:24

Perfect. Loving it. So we have our first question. Con says, is the scale ecosystem exclusively meant for building gaming apps or does it facilitate e sports research player education? My take on that would be like educational type grants to, to share about the scale ecosystem. I guess, is there any infrastructure set up there to support that type of work?

Dante: 13:45

Yeah. So let's, let's talk from a tech perspective first. At the end of the day. Like I said, scale is an infrastructure. We are a fully functioning EVM blockchain. Anything that you would like to do in terms of building something on a blockchain, you can do on scale, right? It does not need to be games. It just so happens that a lot of the inherent features and benefits that come with building on scale leverage themselves really, really well within gaming, which is why 90 percent of what we do Is sort of gaming oriented or consumer entertainment oriented, but by no means is it limited to just that, right? If you want to build a quant trading DeFi application, fantastic. Come over. We have companies that are just using scale as a distributed compute engine and replacing their centralized servers. Totally fine. When it comes to a grant program, our grant program is super, super unique in, in many different ways. First of all, every, and I can promise you this, every single person who comes over to build on scale does so because. Again, they genuinely believe that this technology is what is best for their use. Not a single person, not a single dev in the entire network came over to Scale because of our grant program or because they were paid to build on the network, right? So our grant program is also super, super unique in the sense that it takes those individuals and supports them in ways that facilitate growth and user acquisition among other things. So as you guys know, Scale is a zero gas network. The way that gas, or sorry, the way that revenue comes into the system is that We are an app specific network, meaning that you guys are, as devs, pay a flat fee to either commission your own scale chain or commission space within someone else's scale chain. So the first part of our grant program is designed to help subsidize that cost so that you guys can build, develop, and deploy completely for free. And, you know, we can talk about the numbers. In terms of what this will save you in when it comes to gas fees. Oftentimes, you know, if you're on one of the more congested networks, it's quite literally in the millions. So, you know, there's an incentive of itself. That's sort of step one. Step two to our grant program is ones that are designed around user acquisition and growth, meaning that we will allocate tokens on a milestone basis that you can use to incentivize users to your program. Oftentimes these are reserved for people who are actively building on scale and onboarding users to scale. So not that we don't necessarily pay for people to develop educational content necessarily, but if you have an educational application that you would like to build on the network, we are more than more than happy to, to chat about that. We work a little bit differently than a lot of ecosystems in terms of what we decide to allocate for grants. But as always, my DMs are open. So if you have any

NoAutopilot: 16:14

questions on this, I encourage you to reach out. You guys probably already know this from. All of our different calls, but I really do respect those in the space that are welcoming and supportive of early stage builders. I've been on the other side of the coin with some of the larger chains and you're kind of just a number. And like once you sign up, like there's no real grant incentives, there's no real MarCom support. Like there's a little bit of dev support if you like jump into the discord. And so it's, it's very refreshing to see projects like scale and Dante just being so supportive of you early builders. So anyhow, go through the questions here, 12 08 AM, which by the way, we never asked what that's from it, or maybe I did, and I forgot. Wondering if it would be possible to connect a traditional Web2 crowdfunding platform, uh, sales to a scale chain. The shorter answer

Dante: 17:05

is, is yes. Like I said, scale is a fully functioning EVM blockchain, but more so than that, because of, of course, the zero gas fees, but also the scalability architecture behind scale. Like I said, we have people using scale for all different types of things. Right? We have people that are doing AI sensitive analysis for social media and putting that data on chain. We have people who are in gaming who are connecting AI NPCs and allowing them to interact with the blockchain. You can use scale for whatever you think is best. Right? So we have people who are quite literally using scale as a distributed compute engine, right? And in your case, if you want to put, you know, for example, inventory on chain or data on chain, absolutely. You can use scale for that. And honestly, that's one of the more unique ways to use scale because on most of the chains where you have to pay gas fees, but it doesn't really make a lot of economic sense to do some more tech sense to do so either. So absolutely is, is the short answer.

NoAutopilot: 17:59

Fantastic. So folks, just a heads up, we do have a hard stop at 9 30 a. m. So about nine minutes. So if you have any questions, you want to make sure you get them out now. I want to use crowdfunding platform to get them in and then buy an NFT for them. Yeah. So Dante, if folks want to learn more about building on scale. How should they reach out to you? And then can you kind of share a little bit about what we're doing with the, uh, the GSC, uh, partnership?

Dante: 18:27

Yes. So reaching out to me, you guys have my discord because you're here. That's a really good way to do it. Also, um, I've been tagged in the Twitter posts. Coming out of this community. So please, please, please add me on Twitter and DM me there. Like you guys know, this is an open book. So if you have any questions, please, I encourage you to DM me. Um, you're always welcome to go to our website, follow us on Twitter. Our website is scale. space. Our Twitter, I believe is scale network. We are constantly coming out with announcements, always have really, really big AMAs going. Even if you're, you know, not ready to build right now. And this is something that you want to follow up with. I encourage you to follow up with it. If you are a builder builder and want to get your hands on the network itself, we have an open test net called chaos test net. I very, very much encourage you to go there and just have a lot of fun. Try to break it. Right. I had dems come to me and they're like, Oh my gosh, Dante, I just minted 10, 000 MFTs in 10 seconds with zero gas fees. Like that would have broken another network. And those are the type of experiences that I really love. If you're a builder builder. Go build, right? That's, uh, what I encourage first and foremost. You're welcome to contact me with whatever questions you might have. Um, I know that I love talking to, like I said, smart builders who are building cool things and I've already, already been talking to a lot of people in this community and seems like you guys are all just very, very oriented around. Building the right things the right way.

NoAutopilot: 19:45

So excited about that. Fantastic. And, and if you didn't know folks, so we have a new place for Dante to call home. Yeah. Scale grants channel. We've pinned, uh, not only his contact information in there, information about the program itself, and you can always just tag him if you, if you want to in there. Okay, so, I think as we're kind of rounding out the call, like Dante, I think you're in a really interesting place, you talk to a ton of teams, you know a competitive landscape when it comes to like other gaming chains and like their gaps and their strengths, I guess, you know, what are, uh, and this is unofficial, right, this is not from scale, but like, What are your takes on, you know, what's Web3 gaming in 2024?

Dante: 20:28

Yeah, I think that traditionally there's been two segmented markets. There has been Web2 gaming and there has been Web3 gaming. I think that those who are only going after Web3 DGens, Are to be very blunt, going to die. Right? Everyone right now is competing for the same few hundred thousand gamers. Which is not going to be a sustainable model in the long run. I think that when it comes to this next cycle and the games that are really going to succeed long term, These are going to be the games that are effective at not only targeting those web 3d gens, But also targeting those web two users, which means that instead of being a blockchain game, you are going to be a game that uses blockchain as a means of elevating the experience, whether that means providing your users with audible assets, whether that means providing them with easy experiences to earn, or, you know, on chain transparent tournaments or leaderboards. Whatever that means to you, blockchain is not going to be used as a poster anymore. Blockchain is going to be used as a backend. And the way that I see things is just like your users do not care for the most part, whether you build on Unity or Unreal Engine, or whether you use Amazon AWS or Microsoft Azure, They shouldn't care what blockchain, right? Because at the end of the day, in my opinion, the games that are going to be successful are the ones that are able to obfuscate blockchain out in the background and allow the users to just come in and play the games. Like all of you are building to entertain, to make sure that people have fun. And that should always, always, always come first and foremost. And the people that are going to succeed are the ones that are just going to be building the best games and allowing people to do more than they can at any other game. That is, is

NoAutopilot: 21:59

my personal prediction on, on the future. You gotta scale gets it. Devil horns rocking hand emoji. DV says, Hey Dante, we got to catch up again. Tom says, Yeah, let's do it. Dante, give us a quick feedback about scale and on ramp solutions.

Dante: 22:17

All good. Gildingdorf, nice to see you again, man. Um, we actually just signed with Transact. Transact, as you guys know, has NFT checkout and easy fiat on ramping. That's what I would personally recommend for sort of Web 2. 0 style users. A lot of our games have also seen success with free to play. That's a really, really unique one on scale because you can actually do free to play on chain because Again, there are no gas fees, so you can reward people with NFTs, you can reward people with tokens and do so without them paying any type of gas fees and just sending that stuff to, you know, a background wallet. Those are my personal recommendations for, for onboarding those Web2 users. Fantastic. All right, folks. So we've got four minutes left. And by the way, a few things that I want to mention, the, the scale grant chat. Um, I will do my best to monitor that if you send a message in there and do not hear from me. Ping me individually. Like I said, I'm fairly responsive to DMs. Just let me know that you guys are coming from here. Uh, and I'll, and I'll happily respond. The other thing that I'll say is like, we have a grant program that is designed to support builders and allow them to grow. I have seen a lot of people come to me just for grants and that usually does not Work out so well for them. Uh, just to let you guys know, like I've had people come up to me and like, tell me that I smell like grants when I'm wearing a scale shirt, probably not the best way to go, like we're here to support builders who are building incredible things. We have other means of getting you fundraising, but as you guys know, like our grant program is designed specifically for, you know, helping you guys succeed from an architectural perspective. Perspective. And from a growth and user acquisition perspective, unfortunately, we don't have like an investment arm or anything like that, but happy to work with you guys to come up with solutions to that.

NoAutopilot: 23:54

Yeah, I would add to that too. Like, so a lot of folks can build some tech and now they're trying to figure out what is the blockchain that, that makes the most sense. So we definitely don't, we gotta be careful kind of when we, when we reach out to collaborate on these types of things, because we want to make sure the reputation of gaming startup collective stays strong. We don't want to be considered grant hoppers. That being said. All you guys are building real shit. So don't hesitate to, uh, to reach out to Dante and Scale. Please always,

Dante: 24:20

always, always space for, for builders like yourselves, regardless of, you know, what stage you are at. If you guys are just starting to build or if you guys have tons of users, we are, we're here to make this process easier. Like I am sort of the tip of the iceberg in terms of support. But the more that you dive into Scale, the more that you're going to understand, like, hey, We have an entire marketing team to help support you on the co working PR. Like we have an entire tech and dev support team that's designed to help make this integration process easy. Like I'm, I'm just sort of the front lines when it comes to the support, but the entire scale team has a very, very single minded, relentless ambition towards helping the dApps on scale succeed.

NoAutopilot: 24:55

Love it. Okay, folks. So feel free to get your messages. can. You got one minute here. In the meantime, I'm going to drop this link. We did this for the first time last weekend and it went so well, we're going to do it every week going forward. It's our, uh, our crit hit community calls. So it's a reality check for everyone to hold each other accountable, share what you were intending to accomplish the prior week. If you did, if you didn't, and if you didn't, that's a okay, but maybe you could tell us where you're stuck, where you need some help. And the community could kind of rally around and help you out. Definitely swing through in that. Let's see here, Tom. Been watching Scale for some time. Since one of our partners, AI Land, is deployed there. Good tech is good tech. Colin, opinion. Should Web 2 players new to Web 3 gaming be made aware that they're buying items with potential monetary value in a Web 3 game outright? Or would they just spend and learn later? Yeah, it's a deep question. I don't know if we're going to be able to get it today because I think Dante has to drop deaf or studying learning more and yes,

Dante: 25:48

Dante. Yeah, and always, always happy to come back here, man. Like this was, this was a lot of fun. So you have my, you have my calendar. Feel free to just throw anything on there and I'm happy to jump back on because y'all are awesome. Yeah,

NoAutopilot: 25:59

and actually, A big thank you to Dante and Scale for participating in our upcoming demo day. We should see them as, uh, as our panelists in, uh, at least one session for sure. Cool. Awesome. Awesome. Appreciate it, guys. Have a good one. We'll talk soon. All right, folks. Bye.