The Token Takeover

How to Succeed with Your Web3 Game: Expert Advice from Delabs Games

• Quinn Kwon • Season 3 • Episode 1

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This episode of the Token Takeover Podcast, hosted by No Autopilot, features a conversation with Quinn Kwon, Head of Web3 Strategy at Delabs Games. They discuss strategies for indie Web3 gaming founders, including using Telegram to onboard millions into Web3, the importance of user-friendly products, and building a brand in the space. Quinn shares their journey from software engineering to Web3 gaming, Delabs Games community-building efforts, and the successes and challenges faced in Web3 game development. The discussion also covers the role of partnerships, community engagement, and effective strategies for indie game developers to succeed in the Web3 ecosystem.

Links:
Gaming Startup Collective Twitter - https://x.com/GamingStartUp_
Gaming Startup Collective Discord - https://discord.com/invite/FHZzMfBBqa
Host, NoAutopilot's Twitter - https://x.com/No_Autopilot

Guest Links:
Delabs Games $GAME - https://x.com/delabsOfficial
Delabs Games App - https://app.delabs.gg/
Delabs Games www - https://delabs.gg/

Follow us on Twitter - https://twitter.com/GamingStartUp_

NoAutopilot:

Hey. This is no autopilot host of the token takeover podcast. The podcast dedicated, exclusively to helping indie stage web three gaming founders ship. Good products. I find users to play their experiences. And navigate the tricky waters of financial milestones, like TGS or NFT sales. And today's episode. I shared a conversation with Quinn Quan Head of web three strategy at D-Lab games. And we talked about a lot of things, including telegram as a potential destination to onboard millions of users into web three. We talked about the importance of shipping product that is easy to navigate, even for those who aren't familiar with web three elements. And then finally we went deep on the value and importance of creating a brand. And networking yourself amongst other projects in this space. So without further ado, let's jump into the podcast. And now it's your turn, Quinn. So if you don't, if you don't mind share an introduction to yourself and your role at the labs. But I'd also like to understand how, how you got into web three. Not, not a very common thing for a lot of folks in the.

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, I mean, I'll give a brief intro of myself and I guess how I got into D Lab. So, I guess I started out my career as a software engineer. So I was just doing basic like back end development a bit of things here and there. And then I was in, I was, I was actually in the U. S. in the past, so I was in the U. S. and then, like, with visa issues, I came back to Korea. I was, like, thinking, Oh, what I should do. And I've always been a gamer myself. I love games. So, I actually wanted to try out indie game development on my own. So, kind of similar to your story with, like like, the free development just starting out, like, on your own. So, I did, like, indie game development for a bit, and I actually launched my game on Google Play Store as, like, a one person developer, and I actually started out there, and I guess in that journey, that's when, kind of, Web3 gaming started to really pop up, like, with Axie really coming up to the surface, and that's when I kind of thought, oh, maybe, like, blockchain is going to be, like, the next wave, so I really wanted to know what this was all about, Obviously the game wasn't making that much revenue as it was just my first venture out into gaming. So I decided to find a new job. So I that's kind of how I got into blockchain. I wanted to do blockchain gaming, so I joined a blockchain company that was going to do gaming as one of its sidearms, but I ended up doing just blockchain development for Defi. So I was there for a year and a half. building DeFi products. We were mostly on the Clayton network, which is native to Korea. So I was working there and I guess DeFi wasn't really my passion. I wanted to go back to gaming, which is why I joined and come back, came back to join D Labs. So yeah, I've been here for the past year and a half. D Labs has been building for two years and a half. So I've been mostly here for most of its journey in web three D Labs started building games and hadn't really like built a community and stuff like that before I joined and I kind of initiated that venture. So yeah, I'm working as director of strategy now at D Labs and yeah, I'm glad to be here and excited to bring. All the different things that we are preparing in house.

NoAutopilot:

Right

Quinn Kwon:

on.

NoAutopilot:

Hey, cool. Alright, so I always love to ask this question. You know, you're on a desert island. You can have one console of your choice. You can have one game of your choice. What is Quinn picking?

Quinn Kwon:

Hmm, that is a hard question.

NoAutopilot:

You're like my own game.

Quinn Kwon:

Oh, definitely not. Let's see. There's a couple that come into mind. I think definitely the Nintendo Switch is what I would bring. Maybe Tears of the Kingdom. Okay. That's really good. A lot of hours. All right, so, so I won't kick you out of the server. You've passed you passed the 1st test. Glad to hear that.

NoAutopilot:

Okay. Well, cool. And then, so I guess moving on, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I'm sure rolls into your role, but I, I really enjoy talking to Juan with their expertise. Because we can provide the education to other founders, but, but more importantly, like what your passion is, like what you genuinely enjoy about, about your role at D labs. So I guess with, with that being said, are there specific parts of your role that you find really fulfilling or, or interesting that we can chat a little bit about today?

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, I think my role comes with a bunch of different things, but I think what I enjoy most is actually like product design. So coming from a development background, I do like think in terms of a development sense, but I think just building the product and thinking about what that user experience will be onboarding onto the product, like experiencing what we are building. I think that's pretty exciting for me. And I think what was really cool Like with during my time at D Labs is actually like people coming in, like flowing in, enjoying the product. And when we launched our airdrop campaign it was kind of crazy actually. I mean, in all projects, like there are bots and bots flow in we need to find mechanisms to prevent them, but kind of seeing all that traction, I think we had like in the first couple of weeks, 30 million wallets connected to Which is crazy. And we had to like upgrade our servers, like shut down the website to like upgrade and stuff like that, which was crazy. But that was like super, super exciting for me.

NoAutopilot:

That was that was Tobias, you know, just trying to trying to gain the airdrop. I get it.

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, understand where these users are coming from. And, I mean, we definitely need to filter out all the bots, but kind of seeing all that traction come in is definitely a good sign. So, yeah, that was pretty exciting. And I think in a lot of, like, product Like, Web 2 or Web 3, it's really hard to see, like, that many users come into your website. So, just having that experience was super cool.

NoAutopilot:

Well, it's, it's like, really I bet it's really rewarding too, right? Because Web 3 can get very complex. And so, when you're designing these products, and you're designing the UI to make simple ones. I see it actually connect the dots for people. It has to have been just a great rewarding moment.

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely seeing what you kind of envision come to life and actually people interacting, like the community. Also enjoying the product, I think just having that. Close tie with the community and, like, hearing the feedback directly. Is, is really a different experience.

NoAutopilot:

I'm actually kind of curious about this. You know, I, there's kind of like this this challenge in web three, where if you anticipation of the product sometimes can be even more valuable. Actually. And it, it kind of spins like typical startup rules on its head because typically you want to ship fast. You want to solicit feedback from your adopters. You want to kind of iterate until you get it just right. But in Web3, maybe you can't do that because if it looks janky, you know Word will get out and you'll kind of lose a lot of the enthusiasm that the space has for the project. I guess just, just curious how, if you guys encountered that, and if, if so, how did you guys handle, handle it?

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, I think, I think it comes in both directions. Like, I think what's exciting about the Web3 space is that sometimes that anticipation is very important, and I think making very good use of it is important in this space. But on the other hand, I think the space is also pretty understanding of, like the concept of building together. So like some people who are not really like core members of the community, like may come in and be like, Oh, like, what is this? But I think like who really matter in terms of community building is those who like stick around and are actually engaged and understand like where we're trying to go and what we're trying to do. And I think like those people have been more are more understanding and willing to really build with us and like want to see the product. And I think, yeah, I think it's like both ways. So it's just a matter of like how you want to do community building. So I think now the I think now the sentiment is changing more, that actually having a product does matter. So I, I am kind of looking forward to seeing that a bit more in this space. And I believe our core community members actually do care more, and I think that's who matters the most.

NoAutopilot:

Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more. There was I had an opportunity to chat with the team over at Pirate Nation. And, you know, I'm, I'm always consuming and trying to, if there's any secret sauces out there and it's funny because in the last 30 days you're on web three, Twitter, it's pretty hard to miss a lot of the stuff that's happening with fire nation and crushing it. But then, you know, if you look at their pin tweet, they've been having equally tips. Of features element. They've had a public roadmap. I think that's been five invisible for about six and, you know, to, to your point, I think building with the community and iterating is kind of a bit of a return to what the standard process would be in terms of launching a successful startup. So, yeah, there's, there's no secret sauce to, to building a great product. It.

Quinn Kwon:

I think it, like, with product that definitely makes more sense. I think where the anticipation really comes in hand is for, like, the token and more of the monetary elements. But I think I think it's a, it's a double edged sword, like, Using that to the right degree, like, gets you to places, but also those people are not your core community members who will stick around to actually enjoy the product.

NoAutopilot:

That's a great point. So, okay, so tell me, and this is a safe place, right? So you can disagree or whatever. I won't, I won't be offended, but. I think, and I'm not speaking on official capacity, any role or any advisory that I provide to any company, but. I think a lot of teams try to use the Web3 audience for capital as the Web3 audience tries to use them for capital, but the long term game is, you know, breaking through to that Web2 audience and that Web3 quote unquote gamer doesn't, doesn't really exist, you know, it's really like a core focus around monetary gains, and if the monetary gains are good, On oftentimes, would you, I guess, would you agree with that?

Quinn Kwon:

I think that's a really tough question. I think over the past couple of years, I've been in what 3, like. My thoughts around that have shifted pretty dramatically, like, from here to there. But I think in the end, it does come down to having great product and. If you do have a, like, I think, like, the web 3 audience, there is a big overlap with. Gamers in the nature. So, I think if you do have a really great product and. Like. tokens or these monetary incentives can be used as a user acquisition tool to bring them on, have them be hooked to a certain degree. Those who like, do enjoy the game, I think will stick around to play. But I do definitely agree that the biggest unlock is actually taking this and bringing this to the Web2 audience, which is 100 times bigger. And once we can, like, really break through. I think that's where the key unlock of like mass adoption in Web 3 will be.

NoAutopilot:

Yeah, I agree with that. I think too, like sometimes when, when it gets a little frustrating that Web 3 is so monetarily focused, I oftentimes try and think back that in the Web 2 space, a lot of games don't succeed. They throw a ton of money at advertising. And so in some ways it, it is a bit of apples to apples comparison. It's just a different way to acquire users that hopefully they engage in your project longer than someone who just, you know, installed play for a week or so, and then went to something else.

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, I definitely think in that, like, I guess in that direction, because in I think it's just kind of standardized that. you throw money at like Google, Facebook for user acquisition, you adjust so that you have like the most optimal and then you calculate like a return on asset spent. And that's how you like determine whether like you're successful as a game and making revenue. And it's kind of standardized now, but I think in web three, like what's really great and different is that It's the same like mechanic, like you use tokens for user acquisition, basically spending money on user acquisition, but this money can go directly to the users and not to Google or Facebook. So I think that's kind of how I'm looking at the space. But it's not like, as people think, it's not that different from up to gaming. It's just a different business model that is more friendly to the community.

NoAutopilot:

Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. I, I envision a future where like, you know, a lot of Indies seem to be the one both in web two and web three really pioneer innovation in terms of game mechanics or interesting systems. And then it seems like later on the larger publishers or studios kind of pick up on it and expand on it. But I do see a space where like web three can provide a very real way for indie game devs to ship the games dreams and get even closer to. Then, you know, something like a Kickstarter provide.

Quinn Kwon:

At

NoAutopilot:

least, at least that's the hope because we got, we have about 300 indie game devs in here and if that future is true, then they have a good shot at, at pursuing the dream. Okay. And then so I always like to ask this question too, and you can feel free to punt it or, or, or politely decline. But so many folks talk about their successes, their figures, what they've done, how much they've raised, whatever. Oftentimes I find the biggest lessons are actually in takes that we make and the ones that are painful, the point that we have to iterate, make some large changes. I have that pain anymore. I guess what that said are in your time and web 3, are there any moments that pop up as. A large mistake that that you learned from that maybe others could learn from as well.

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch I think I can share. Well, I think to begin with there's something about genre that I do want to share. Like, I think what we realized in, so we launched Rumble Racing Star, which is a arcade like casual racing game. And I think what the Web3 audience, like, really does react to. And makes sense to engage with is more like RPG style games. So where there's progression, where NFTs really make sense. Arcade as a genre is not super like, I guess, it can't really be blockchain heavy. And I think Rumble Racing Star itself as a game is like super fun and like really enjoyable, like to play with. Friends and like enjoy casually, but I think for like web3 gaming what makes more sense is RPG like structure where there's items, leveling, NFTs that are upgradable and things like that. So I think I am looking really forward to Launching our next titles, Space Frontier and Metabolt, which are going to be have like bigger ecosystems that can really support a like NFT token economy. And I think on the other hand, like, what is super interesting to us right now is games that are more casual and like hypercasual, but can really spread. So what we are really looking at at TLABS is. Telegram games. So, we just launched a Telegram game two weeks ago it's called Gigachad Bat. It's a baseball game re skinned from one of our parent company's games, and that's, I think it's Telegram is gonna be like the next WeChat games. So we want to be there early to see what that audience is like. But yeah, I think in terms of genre, I think when you're picking genres, it's really important to see where and like what kind of elements blockchain elements, like the Web3 audience will react to. And I think definitely those two are where we are looking the most DevOps games.

NoAutopilot:

Gotcha. Yeah, I, I saw some I saw some interesting figures around Telegram, which in itself has had a ton of publicity and it seems like these last 30 days on ecosystem, but it's like 300 million. Not about maybe my mouth is off, but I think that's about right.

Quinn Kwon:

That's That sounds about right.

NoAutopilot:

Can we get a fact check device? No. Maybe that was it. Well, anyhow, it's yeah, I think it's super interesting. You know, it seems blockchain gaming has found a really strong foothold. Southeast Asia and telegram is. A very prominent application in those areas. Am I, am I correct? Like the, the big unlock there is like the native integration with on and to kind of on board with the web three elements that. Because, like, I guess I look at discord as a comparable thing, but you don't really see much in terms of.

Quinn Kwon:

I think I think what's the biggest unlock is that it's there's so many users, it's a chatting platform, so it's so easy to share. So the referral system works, like, really well in that ecosystem, so it's really easy for user acquisition. And then I think the second part is the wallet integration. So I think the first time I tried the Telegram, like, wallet on TAN, it was like inside the app already integrated you already have one if you have a telegram id so i think just that easy integration even though i think the next step of moving that forward is actually being able to like buy and charge ton like in a easier manner but i think those two are the biggest unlocks that telegram can bring for web3 gaming

Hey guys, hey, how's it going? Yeah, i'll just add one thing on that. I mean you know, there's a lot of trick like web3 traders or crypto traders who have Connected various telegram bots to just trading for them like automated trading so I think overall like, you know, and i'm I don't know what the crossover is between you know, crypto traders and gamers, but i'm guessing it's pretty high You And that could be the other reason why Telegram is doing really well in this space, because everybody's just used to using crypto and Telegram. I mean, I think it's, I think it's a pretty common space.

NoAutopilot:

We

should we should bring

NoAutopilot:

Thanh in as a future guest. That'd be interesting.

Yeah, I I was connected to the community manager in in Bangkok. I could, I could reach out and see if we can get something going. That'd be great.

NoAutopilot:

Thanks for those insights device. Okay, so I guess pulling the question back to the audience that. That's likely to kind of consume podcasts and the articles that come out of it. You know, you yourself were in the game dev if you were working in the web 3 space. Imagine you're bootstrapped, a couple founders, maybe you haven't found a chain yet you're staring down a discord with like three people, all of which are your best friends, there's no one else. How would you, how would you kind of prioritize, you know, trying to build towards a successful web 3d, if you were an indie game dev?

Quinn Kwon:

So is the question like, where would I start?

NoAutopilot:

Yeah. Where, where you would start and I guess what you would find the most impactful. Right for for that stage,

Quinn Kwon:

I mean, I think in the 1st stage, it would definitely be the product. So, if you have at least a minimum, like, MVP, like, minimum viable product, I think the next step probably would be to make. Friends in the Web3 space, probably like on crypto Twitter, just in interacting, engaging and trying to figure out, like, and engaging and other gaming communities as well to find people. And I think in Web3, like, this network and connections are like, super important. And I think with things like chain selection partnerships, I think all of these things are what gets you, like, Known and gets your project known in the space. So I think the second step once you have a solid basis for a product, if you want to start community building, like networking is super, super important.

NoAutopilot:

So like, I've, I've always known that partnerships were important. But I really have come to understand it from a completely different level. Kind of my nine five day job in web three. I guess for, for those that aren't aware, you know, if you're going into it or you're going into E, like how, how do partnerships typically kind of lock in, in support of those bigger announcements.

Quinn Kwon:

I mean, I think it's, it's all about getting like getting you and your project shown to a different audience and kind of widening that reach and partnerships are one way to really be able to do that. I think partnerships are one way. I think another way is actually like working with KOLs so that your news is spread, but I think those two aspects are definitely important if you're like, I mean, obviously, if you're looking to do a mint or get some word out about your project.

NoAutopilot:

Cool. Awesome. Okay. And then, so if there's folks who listen to the podcast. And they want to reach out to you. Or they want to try and find ways to partner or support what D Labs is doing. Awesome. What's the, what's the best way for them to to connect with with your team?

Quinn Kwon:

Yeah, I mean, we have a Twitter at D Labs Official. I have my Twitter handle that's I think it's 0xGwenK. So messaging me there would work. We also have a Discord, a D Labs Official Discord. Discord. So join there and our community team and our moderators will relay all the messages to me. So I think those would be the best channels.

NoAutopilot:

Perfect.

Hey. And there you have it. There is our interview with Quinn Quan, head of web three strategy at D-Lab games. So I'm going to have links in the description to their profile links. So you could check out their projects, reach out to them if you'd like to. And I'm also going to add in the link to the gaming startup collective. Uh, Twitter profile. So feel free to follow that for informational content, just like this. Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you the next one. Peace.

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