She Left Her Career to Raise Her Kids. Then She Started Again. | Dr. Vandana Arcot

She Left Her Career to Raise Her Kids. Then She Started Again.

What happens when the life you've built no longer fits the woman you're becoming?

This week on the Her Village Podcast, Jacqueline sits down with Dr. Vandana Arcot to talk about identity, ambition, motherhood, and the courage it takes to reinvent yourself.

After a successful global health career spanning more than a decade and work across 13+ countries, Dr. Arcot made the decision to step away from her professional life to focus on raising her children. Years later, she found herself navigating the vulnerable process of returning—not to who she used to be, but to a new version of herself.

Together, Jacqueline and Dr. Arcot explore:

• The emotional realities of stepping away from a career to focus on family
• Losing—and rediscovering—your sense of identity
• The guilt and fear that can come with wanting something more
• How motherhood reshaped Dr. Arcot's definition of success and leadership
• The pressure women feel to choose between caregiving and ambition
• Why reinvention isn't about becoming someone new—it's about reclaiming the parts of yourself that were waiting to be rediscovered
• The permission to evolve through different seasons of life

Dr. Arcot is the founder of Komselj, a strategy firm advancing women's and children's health and empowerment worldwide, and VUND, a home décor and fragrance company that supports women-led beekeeping initiatives. Her work has helped raise millions for global health causes while empowering women and communities around the world.

If you've ever wondered whether it's too late to dream again, pivot careers, pursue a passion, or redefine what success means to you, this conversation is for you.

Because every season changes us—and sometimes beginning again is exactly what we're meant to do.

Connect with Dr. Vandana Arcot:

• Website: https://www.komselj.com/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drvandanaarcot/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drvandanarcot 

Transcript

Hey friend, thanks for hitting play. On today's episode, I am excited to welcome on Dr. Vandana Arkot. She is the founder of CommCell, a strategy firm dedicated to advancing women's and children's health and empowerment worldwide, and Vund, a home decor and fragrance company that supports women-led beekeeping. Following a rich career in public health working across more than 13 countries, she has raised $72 million for global health causes, educated over 5,000 girls, launched 37 women-led ventures, and employed 120 bee farmers, all while navigating motherhood, pregnancy, and breast disease recovery. It was such an honor to welcome Dr. Arkot onto the show as we talk about reinventing yourself after motherhood. I truly enjoyed this conversation, and I hope you will, too. Take a listen.

Dr. Arcot, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I'm so excited to have you here to have a very in-depth conversation about how women can redefine themselves throughout motherhood and throughout the different seasons of life. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I do listen to your podcast, and I think it's very useful for the women who are in my circle, and, uh, it's such an honor to be here. Thank you. And you had this accomplished career in global health, and you stepped away for five years to focus on your family, and then eventually you built not one, but two mission-driven companies. I'd love to start at the beginning. You know, before motherhood entered the picture, who were you? Before motherhood, uh, oh my God, it feels like a lifetime away, to be honest. Yeah. It- I'm a physician by profession. Um, I worked in global public health for almost two decades, um, with work on the field, um, with some of the world's most vulnerable populations, and it was such an honor to do it. But before motherhood, I was a whole bunch of things. I was a weaver. I was, um, a part-time, uh, I don't know, fiber arts enthusiast. I was also a professional doctor. I was practicing. I had all these data sets in my head about motherhood and everything else that was meant to be. And then when we decided, when my husband and I... My husband's a physician, too. Okay. So when we decided we were ready to have children, uh, it was, um, a very conscious decision. We were ready to face parenthood together. And I think that was one of the groundbreaking probably insights that I had, that most people consider it normal, but it's an actual privilege where both the partners are prepared for parenthood around the same time with no obligation from your cultural society whatsoever. Um, the culture that I come from, there is a lot of, um, stigma. There's a lot of, um, conscious decisions being made, um, paths being chosen. Even career paths, for that matter, are being chosen based on the fact that one day you're gonna be a mother. Um, right? Yeah. So you need to choose a career that is easier, um, and can accommodate everything- Yeah that you choose to do. Um, and, uh, I had none of those restrictions, and I feel extremely grateful and privileged to, um, actually have had that experience because it made motherhood a thousand times easier, if not more. I want to start off with that moment of gratitude because I think- Yeah ... gratitude carries us forward. And, uh, yeah, so, so coming from that, I almost didn't see motherhood as, I took motherhood as a second chapter almost. Yeah. Because I made a conscious decision to step back. And again it was a reinvention of self because I, I... This is something that no one talks about, but then you start doing identity work subconsciously because you've been used to so many labels in your life. You're a, you know, wife, you're a caretaker, you're a daughter, you're a sibling, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then suddenly you have this identity as a mother and none of those supporting architectures or archetypes to support you through that. That is, like, completely you. And the only person giving you that authority is a newborn that has no say. Right. Whatever, and it'll still consider it right, right? Mm-hmm. So it's, it's, it, it was a very large shift in identity work for me personally. I took that leap. I actually wa- went to a therapist, um, and worked through that, and I think that was very helpful perspective shift. And when we do talk about, see, the, the thing is I didn't stop thinking about the work. Mm-hmm. I just stopped pretending that the work was very separate from the life that I was already in. And, when people almost always talk about the parenting pause people think of it as a subtraction, right? I don't think it's a subtraction. I think it's an accumulation of unnamed, I don't know, labor, unnamed love, unnamed visible, invisible, um, strands of grief in there. It's losses, gains. It's things that become visible only in retrospect. Um, and I think I redrafted, or rather I went through redrafts of myself during the initial pha- phases of motherhood especially when I had my second child because they- Yeah were so close together. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, so that was, uh, that was my reinvention and, um, I, I, yeah, I don't see it as a subtraction at all. I see it as an accumulation and, like, a recharge. Reinvention is not clean. It's not like you're shedding your skin- Right ... and going into, you know, you're just stepping out like a brand new- Yeah. You don't just wake up one day and you're like, "Here I am now. That's my new identity." It's- You don't, you don't just start suddenly speaking just baby language all the time, right? Mm-hmm. You still had a life before, and I think it's, it's really embracing everything about yourself, like being true to who you are in your identity work and being true to that, and embracing everything and taking that forward rather than bouncing back. Yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Again, admittedly, it was in, retrospect for me as well. When I was in it and, you know, stepped away from my career and I'm... Same thing, my first two children were very close together, so I was very much in the thick of motherhood. And society just kind of makes it feel that way. Like, I was like, "Oh, I'm not a working... I'm not in my career anymore, so I feel like this is less than," even though I feel like I've never had a harder job than being a mom and figuring out motherhood as a new mom. It's so many things, though, when I look back into it, just like you said. It is. It's grieving, who you were prior to being a mom, but then being, like, blessed and amazed by all the new things that you're learning. It's all, like, intertwined and woven together. And the hardest part, I think, is remembering that you are a woman outside of all of these roles. And you said that so beautifully, and that is exactly what we're doing here with Her Village in real life. It's to remind women to find those pieces of themselves again, and even outside of a career, just, you know, the little things that you enjoy. Like, who were you? The pieces of you, you know, from your 20s, but also who you are now as a mom, and weaving it all together and knowing that, this reinvention, like you said, it doesn't happen overnight, and you don't even realize it's happening until you kind of take a look back and you're like, "I have changed a lot in this." And but for the better. You know, I'm going forward in a career or even pivoting- Mm-hmm ... a career because I have this, different mindset and different lens on after going through motherhood. I, I just couldn't agree more. Lily, I think I think the more we name it, the more we normalize it, and the more it becomes easier for women who come after us to realize that this is the new normal. There is no previous arc. What you're going through is the arc. Right. Don't reimagine it. You're not reinventing the wheel, right? It is the arc. It is normal to feel lost. It is completely normal to feel tired. And, um, I would say just embrace the experience, and if you cannot embrace the experience, then find the common denominator that would help you move past or move forward. Um, women are very good to find common denominators, um, in whatever we do. Like, if you're an entrepreneur, you find other entrepreneurs. You f- if you're a mom, you find other moms, preferably in the same age. You will find your community. You will find your tribe. You will feel supported. But it is an imperative acknowledgement that you have to take that this is your common denominator. And I think that's a lot of work in it, in itself. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And I think you're right. As women, like, we are really good at kind of finding those places and inserting ourselves where we need the support and where we feel valued and, and all of that. Even though it was a conscious decision for you, you knew that you were going to step back, from your career, how did you feel making that decision? Did it come with a mix of emotions? Oh. Like, how, how did you feel when you were in it? one of the things that surprised me the most was, you know, everyone expects the financial, the emotional labor, all of that was expected. But I think, um, what surprised me the most of that entire episode of my life was the stories that you hear about that episode are not necessarily true and applicable in your life scenario. Um, and I say this with a lot of grace, and it's a retrospective lesson. Yeah. I completely, um, have to give it out there because when I was going through it, I was like, "What is wrong with me?" Mm-hmm. Um, because I felt lonely, I felt tired. Again, I had a physician husband who was on call and off call, and the regular roles of partnership were not there, or it was there, but it wasn't in, you know, no one was making me food. I didn't have-- I didn't grow up with my parents around me, so I didn't have an aunt I could hand it off to- Mm ... or have my mom to come and, you know, cook food for me every other day. So the village was literally created by me and I got to decide who the village was and what kind of village I was creating, and that is a lot of responsibility on you as- Yeah a, a new mom, and that was something that I was completely unprepared for. You know, just asking for help, being vulnerable and saying, "This is too much in a day. I cannot have manicured nails and do everything else that I'm supposed to do." Right. Um, so I'm just gonna take a step back and be like, self-care changes., Just acknowledging that was was very difficult for me. Yeah ... having said that, the financial aspect 30% of women who go through this. I have done global health- time to realize that financial stress is real especially in motherhood. And, um, when your partner is not supportive or you find yourself as a single parent, even in a partnership, or you're a single mom, um, the stress is even more, and it affects the way you become a mother. It really does. So the, financial stress is real. Even though I had stepped back financially, it took me some time to realize that my husband was the sole provider of, of income. Mm-hmm. And I had to run numbers in my head a little before I would spend it, even if it was just, like, on groceries or- Yeah uh, things like that. I was like, "Oh, I'm not spending, like, my money anymore so I'm not gonna lie, it was very uncomfortable. I think a lot of people can relate to that. I know I can. It was a shift I wasn't prepared for. Like, logically, I knew we were going down to one income, but it's in those day-to-day moments like you just mentioned, you're like, "Oh, I'm going to get groceries," and you're like... You're just used to having, you know, the dual income and your own money that you made and it's, it's such a shift. And for me, it created s- so much stress, and, like, a lack of control. Even though we are a partnership and we agreed that we have one in- like, we all knew the situation, but it, it hits different, especially as someone who has, like, built a career and is then stepping back. Mm-hmm. It's such a change of mindset and just everything in the day-to-day. Totally. That was unbelievable. I think it, uh, it was one of my hardest moments. I remember journaling about it, and I was like, "Why?" Um, but I would think I was asking the wrong question, to be honest. This was, like, a completely cultural moment for me where I had to just let go and be vulnerable and be like, "I need to... I'm working on something more important at this point. And you have to take care of everything else." Yeah. And that was a handoff that I had to give my husband. Um, but again, that is a moment of gratitude and a moment of privilege, and I do not take that assumption very lightly. I think it's so brave of you to even recognize that in the moment, because I've had so many ups and downs. I've primarily been home with the kids for seven years now, and it's been in the last three years that I've been podcasting and working, you know, for myself. So in those, like, first four or five years, you know, I had to... It's hard to remind yourself of that bigger picture. Like, what I'm doing here is important. Even though I'm not getting a paycheck, no one around me is being like, "You're doing amazing," or, "You're learning so many new things." And it's only until, again, in retrospect that I realize, like, wow, I have learned so many skills, and what I'm doing is so important, raising children, you know? And you have to, like, give yourself the, your own kudos, and really zoom out and be like, "This work is so important." I think corporate America is losing out on talent that can transform Transformers of any kind- Mm-hmm ... into an actual living Transformer toy or put unbreakable cookies back together. Yeah. Make more sweet potato bananas. Yes. I don't know. It's talent. It- And I, I don't see people getting enough credit for it. I know. So many... I don't know if you felt this way, but I, for me, it's like entrepreneurship specifically and motherhood has aligned so much. You know, in motherhood and when you're building a business, you constantly have to learn to pivot, and you have to create new relationships. Like you were talking about, finding your own village. Like, you have to build that. Like, they're not coming to you. You have to create that. And then just accepting your own new identity. There's so much overlap, I feel like, between parenting and a, running a business or building a business. And I, if I could just like put it into words or more, like you said, more employers in corporate America, could see how, the skills that women have after being launched into motherhood, whether it was a conscious choice or not, like it, it's, it's wild. I wanna like put it into a resume with, that it deserves. I actually have it on my resume that I can transform any Transformer toy within five minutes. I love that. I love that. It is on my resume, and I will not take it off because- As it should be. ... talent. Um- Yes ... but I'll tell you something more. Something that doesn't get named that often is along with motherhood, resilience. Hmm. And I say "resilience" with quotes because resilient woman is somehow the most underestimated woman in the entire audience. Um, but with that resilience comes a lot of discernment and prioritization. Partially because we have limited time, and we need to get things done, and, um, things just work differently in our brains for some reason. Um, but that discernment is an extremely useful tool to pivot with, to, um, use to translate your skills with, um, once you've entered this motherhood phase of your life. I, I personally have used it or relied on it in chaotic situations, um, which allows me to translate very, very minute decision-making changes to maximum social impact, and that is, um, that is a skill that I will forever cherish. Yeah. Resilience is a, definitely a word for mothers. And reprioritizing it must be a way that, like, our brains are just wired. I mean, I felt like I was a pretty good prioritizer w- prior to motherhood, but I had no idea what I would have to do and how I could finagle the day and accomplish certain things and, and pivot when I needed to. Resilience is a huge selling point of mothers, and I think everyone should really recognize that. I'll celebrate resilience, but I will celebrate discernment more. There's a difference. It's a clear difference, and I think as much as motherhood brings or parenthood in general brings- Yeah out resilience, um, I think discernment is somehow, um, never mentioned and never met with the same amount of curiosity as it should. Yeah. And I think, uh, okay, here's where discernment translates, um, right? And I think this, this is gonna lead into your next section, um, be- because it helped me refuse to rebuild some of the things that was considered the norm. Like you walk into the room and you're tolerant of being underestimated. You stop tolerating that anymore. Um, you walk into a room and then you're expected to rebuild with an apology for the children that you have in your life. You refuse to do that. Mm-hmm. You start refusing to do things that have absolutely nothing to do with the second or third person in the room and you make no apologies for it, and I think that is a, that is a serious growth that we need to recognize as parents, um, because it doesn't get named often in data, in policy rooms, in field work. Um, you see it inside of it as a terrain, but then when you are the terrain, i'm not gonna pretend that it's two very different things. I think there's evidence there that we need to build or rebuild rather, and, um- If someone is coming to a professional conclusion based on my personal experience, that is not my issue. Yeah. Yeah. That is such a good point. You are so right. So you made a conscious decision to step back from your career for motherhood, and then at what point did you kinda start feeling this pull towards something new? Was it always the plan to go back into your career? What did that look like for you? So I I had a job offer on the table for almost three years post-motherhood start, and I refused to go back into a setting that expected me to apologize for not being a single woman anymore, not prioritizing my work above everything else, having a 9:00 to 5:00 schedule. The thing that shifted the most was probably the sanctity of life that I had always held close to me and the fact that I couldn't leave my son at six weeks in a daycare. Um- We were enrolled. It was extremely pr- you know, private and prestigious- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... in New York years, but it couldn't, I couldn't do it. Yeah. And I chose to, uh, exclusively breastfeed, which was like another, you know, layer on top of a layer. And something that was highlighted during that time was you know, it, it really is a privilege to be able to do that. Not every- Yeah ... mother can. Um, w- I don't think every mother should. It fed us best, but- Mm-hmm ... if you could do that and you can check that box off, then kudos to you for even putting yourself through it because it takes a enormous amount of courage and vulnerability to do it. Especially in a setting where you're far away from everything else and- Right ... your identity is shifting and everything else that's going on within you. So, so what did it look like coming back to work? I didn't come back to work, and that's the honest answer. Yeah. I re-architected the work. And the work came because I wanted to be outdoors with my son in the fields. I wanted to learn about bees. My sons came with me to the fields. And this was again, part of seeing the world differently through the eyes of a toddler. And he was, um, my eldest was allergic to artificial fragrances. So I started looking a little bit more into that, and then we came up with, um, this whole array of things that did not need to exist in fragrances in the first place. So I started building a brand that was focused on bee conservation at that point, but also wanted to look at what fragrances and homes could smell like without- Hmm artificial ingredients. And that was the beginning of Wynd, which is my home fragrance and candle company. A large part of the work in that is around bee conservation and, uh, supporting women of color to have it as more than just a hobby. Yeah. That's important Sustainable, et cetera, et cetera. Again, it's layered on the work that I have done before. So, getting women to be financially sustainable for a hobby that they already enjoy- Mm-hmm ... is translation. Yeah. And I got, I, I got to spend time with the bees, I got to spend time with flowers and pollinator gardens with my sons. It was enjoyable. Once COVID- That's so, so amazing. I know. It sounds idyllic, doesn't it? But then- It does, yeah ... in the middle of it, um, you are strapping two less than three-year-olds in a car seat for a two and a half hour car drive. Yeah. I, I, if I could do anything different, I would take that part back, but not so much otherwise. The other thing that happened was during COVID, we all got shut down and a large part of, uh, my work came to the forefront. Public health came to the forefront because of what was happening in the world. And again, it was not intentional, but then I had the resources to introduce philanthropic money insti- institutions and communities that needed it because I had done the work on the field. Yeah. Um, and I knew people on the field, and it resulted in a lot of community centers and triage centers being opened in my home country and in parts of Africa and Southeast Asia. And, um, seeing that impact led me to believe that there was a way to pivot away from what I had traditionally done and to view this entire thing as a new business model. So I started architecting it- literally. And, uh, it w- it's been a wonderful career progression. Not many people get... Like, I'm a doctor. I make candles. Yeah. You know, the, the translation is that I think I didn't stop doing the work. I just followed the work into different areas of life to see how it would change for the woman who I was working for. Yeah. That is such an amazing progression, and it's, it's really interesting to hear you, uh, describe that time because it sounds like you just... You didn't have a plan going into it, right? You were in motherhood, and You, you knew what your priorities were, like you said, You're not gonna do the nine to five. You're not gonna put your child into a daycare at that young age. And you're like, "Oh, this would be fun. I'm interested in this. I see a need." And you just, like, went with it, and then you saw another need when COVID hit, and you knew your skills aligned. And it's such a brave thing to do, and I think it's important that you are sharing this story because so many women out there, I think, need to hear that, you don't have to have a plan before reinventing yourself. You just have to, trust your gut and use the skills that you have and see the needs in the world, whether it's for yourself and your, your own child. You know, like, "Oh, fragrance-free. This is important to me, so let's investigate that," or, "The world is shutting down. How can I help other people in this way?" I think not being afraid of the unknown is so important when you are stepping into this season of, say, stepping back from your traditional career. Like, opportunities are out there, but you kinda have to open up your mind to what that will be and just, like, go with it. Because, I mean, look at the work that you've done, and that was all just, like, trusting your gut and following what was important to you and seeing areas where you could help others. That's so amazing. Jacqueline, if there is something that I could leave o- any woman with, I would say that reinvention is accumulation over and over again, and not losing that work that you have done or morphing into something different. You don't morph. You just accumulate, and you translate or transmute the work into something different. I think that is the core of reinvention in my mind, at least. Um, that's how I see it. But- people can have different opinions, and they're welcome to. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, though. I, I love that definition. Looking back, we've talked about, prioritizing different things and understanding what's important to you and not apologizing for who you are now. How do you define success today compared to 10 years ago? 10 years ago success meant driving a very specific brand of car or having a specific brand of purse or having the, you know, partner that you need or want by your side. Success now is not having to ask your partner for help and them providing it themselves. Success today is having the time to work from home and still be a part of your children's lives when they can come home at 3:00 p.m. from school and they see you at home, you know, having food, dinner with them or having breakfast with them every single day and not missing a beat of their life at least in their younger days. Um, success to me now as a woman, like in the identity of my womanhood is, um, it's very different. It's very personal and very peaceful. I think not having to validate any of my experiences, provide proof of any of my, uh, successes to anyone in the room and just walking in with the authority that my work has given me or alluded to is success in itself. I think there are some rooms that I walk into where people know me, people know of the work that I've done, and I don't need an introduction. I think that is success. Mm-hmm. For success for me in my communities that I have worked in is walking in and seeing them being able to make financial decisions, policy decisions that would enable their health and the health of their children and the generations to come be amplified. That is a version of success. So it's, it's different at different levels. But I think the, uh, one that hits closest to me is, um- it's probably having something to be grateful for every day Yeah that is a version of success that I had not had in my charts for a very long time. I wake up with gratitude, I sleep with gratitude, and I'm just thankful that I have something to be grateful for every day. Even if it looks like the hardest day of my life I have the mindset to shift it from being the hardest day of my life to having the acknowledgement or the humility to accept that this was not my finest moment and let go and that something good will follow. That is gratitude and that's a version of success. Gratitude is, is so incredibly important. And a lot of times it takes, different experiences in our life to make that be at the forefront, I know for me, even stepping into motherhood, I- it was years of infertility and loss and, and I just... It shaped who I am as a mom now. I, I am grateful for even the hard days 'cause I'm like, "This is... We worked so hard for this. This is what I wanted. This is a blessing." I'm grateful to be a mom, I'm grateful to be able to stay home. You know, you see everything through a different lens when you are making these shifts in your identity and in your life. I'm curious, how does somebody know whether it's... Maybe it's not going into motherhood. Maybe it's just somebody who is in their career wanting to make a shift. In your opinion, like, how do we know when we're outgrowing a season of life? When you're negotiating with fear. Ooh That's good. I love that ... when you're putting something off so much, or you're sticking onto something, or you're making things work or you're doing a double-take to make things work, and you are negotiating every single day about something that you want, which is something that you can't have or should have, um, yeah. That would be my one-line definition. If you're negotiating with fear, it's time to stop, take a look, get your ledger in order. Yes. That's such a good way to put that. I feel that. I've never known how to put that into words, but you're so right. I'm just thinking personally what the shift in the podcast, and I was very focused on fertility, and now I'm, I'm wanting to connect with women in real life and kinda shift that a little bit. I spent months being like, "Why aren't I excited about this anymore?" Or like, "Why am I dragging my feet on, a new podcast episode," or I, I'm, you know, I'm just not launching this n- new thing forward. And it was, like, 'cause I'm not, in it. Like, I've ou- outgrown this season of my life, you know? Like, infertility will always be part of my story, and I'm passionate about educating others and helping them through that if that's what their journey looks like. But for me personally, I'm like, "I'm not in that season anymore of life." And so it took a lot for me 'cause I felt like I had built this community, and this audience, and this identity for myself. It was like, if you need help with infertility or, uh, you know, like, you're the person, and that's, like, who I was. And so it took some time But that's what I was going through. I was... It was the fear of doing something new, fear of losing what I built. But, every day looked like, "Ugh," like I, I'm just, like, dragging myself through this. And it's... I don't have the same passion for it as I used to. So Th- thank you for putting that into words. And just for everybody listening, like, don't don't not evolve just because of fear of what's to come. I think womanhood in itself is an evolution, right? Um, you don't have to be prepared for your next chapter. You just have to know that there's a next chapter. Yeah. It's gonna come. Whether you want it or not, it's gonna come. And h- the way you go into it and the mindset that you have facing it is the one that determines whether you're gonna be successful in that chapter or not. Um, or to create a success of it or not. Um- Yeah ... because most of it is in your hands, the outlook, the perspective, the shift, um, what you bring to the table, what you're gonna transmute. Everything is within you. And that is gonna affect your parenting at some point or the other. So- Right ... um, I always say this, w- womanhood is like a sentence. You have commas, you have semicolons, um, and it just keeps shifting depending on where you are in that sentence, right? And- I love that ... it's over. The period is a period, and that comes at the end. But that's... It's never over until you say it's over. So it's, um, it's really an evolution, and I think to evolve you need to be open to that mindset growth that makes a difference. Yeah. And congratulations on your shift. Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's still a work in progress , but I, I'm going towards that. I'm leaning into what I'm, I'm feeling, and it feels, it feels good. And like you said, I think success follows when you are in that alignment with what you wanna do. The version of success also changes. Yes. Yes. 100%. Yes. 'Cause when I started this journey, you know, I didn't actually have quite a plan. I was home with my kids, and we were about to start surrogacy to have my daughter, who's now two. And I was just like, "This is a lot that I'm carrying in my head, you know, the last 10 years of all the things I've experienced, and I just need to let it out." So, like, that's why I decided to start the podcast, and I invited other women on to share their stories. And the more I leaned into this, then we would have experts on, and doctors, and educating women in the fields of, family-building. And it just kind of, like, evolved from there. And it all just started with, what do I need right now? And I'm just gonna go for it and jump in and see where it takes me. And I did not know that, like, almost four years later, it would lead me to creating these villages for women in real life and translating that into the podcast. But it feels, it feels like a good journey. And I think it's important to note, too, like, you know, is. womanhood is an evolution. I couldn't agree more. And as you're evolving though, That doesn't mean you're losing the parts of yourself that were. You have to find them again, I think, as your journey evolves. But I think it's just remembering parts of ourselves that just got quiet for a while, too. Like, coming back to that version of yourself and intertwining it into where you are now. 'Cause, you know, that's important, too. Even with the little things, like, oh, I used to love, like, taking dance classes, and I don't do that anymore, you know? But why not? Maybe I should. Do that. I used to have this tradition of blowing candles out on cupcakes. And I stopped doing it somewhere in adulthood. And now that I have kids, it's all about candles and cupcakes. Uh-huh. It doesn't matter what we're celebrating. It doesn't even matter if you're celebrating. I just think candles make a huge difference on any kind of cakes. Um, it just brings a celebratory moment. Yes. It's important. I love that so much, and kids are so amazing at doing that, at bringing out those little parts of ourselves and allowing us to have, like, those moments of fun and just honestly, like, childhood again, and play back in our lives. In my 20s and before motherhood, I... You know, you're kind of on that chase, the chase for your career- Mm-hmm ... to that first definition of success that you talked about. You know, mine was very similar, and the evolution is, is so freeing, to be honest. And kids have this way of bringing it out of you, and motherhood brings it out of you. It's, it's really cool to experience. Oh my goodness. I could talk to you all day. I, I love your outlook on everything, and I am just so impressed by your journey. This has been so helpful. And we've probably touched on this a little bit, but, you know, there may be a woman listening who feels like she lost herself somewhere in the demands of motherhood or caregiving, or just maybe she's just trying to survive a really hard season. And maybe she's wondering if it's too late to dream again or become someone new. What would you want her to know? What would you want that listener to know if they're feeling all of those things? You know, it's so funny because I've seen this question answered so differently depending on where the woman lives. And the gap between the answers is probably why your podcast exists and probably where her answer lies. Because a woman going through motherhood in the United States is very different from a woman going through motherhood in Africa or Southeast Asia or Europe, right? The structures are different. The people are different. The systems are different. Um, the infrastructure surrounding them is different. But I think for the woman herself, it's not a list. I'm gonna make it very obvious and make it clear. It's not a list. I think you need to give yourself permission. Um, and that is, probably the common denominator for women all over the world, mothers especially all over the world, because we hold a lot of invisible labor. Um, whether you have a partner who's supportive or not, right? It doesn't matter. The fact that motherhood is the celebrated part in a parenthood journey is because it has a certain amount of responsibility attached to it. And, um, there is no two ways about it. There-- You can argue about it till, the crows come home. Yeah. But there's no two ways about it. Motherhood is special. Um, the journey is special. The before, after, everything else about it is special. But I think allowing yourself or giving yourself the permission to become the kind of mother you wanna be really comes from the woman herself. Like, no one else can dictate that for her. Like, the society cannot. The mother-in-law can have their own opinions. Right? There are so many cultural norms around the world about motherhood. But- The one that matters the most is whether you're going to be the person who stands in the middle of all of that and be like, "This is the mother I'm becoming. This is my choice." Defining how you thrive on your own terms or even giving yourself permission to say, "I need more than what I'm currently getting," or, "I deserve more than what I'm currently getting." Or having, you know, having to emotionally regulate yourself like 40 times before breakfast. Mm-hmm. And just say that, "This is real work that I am doing, and I need to take a moment to rest and have breakfast for myself because I need the strength to carry on, and I need to give myself permission to take that moment for myself." I think what's important to acknowledge also in this moment is the work has always counted, right? We say it needs a village, whatever. The work has always counted. Right. The, the systems that we have built, the medical, the corporate, the employer HR departments, the philanthropic ones, the ones that, you know, invest so much on architecture around mothers around the world, right? Those are the systems that have forgotten that this invisible layer exists. Because think about it, no one, no one can tell you what your version of thriving looks like. That's such a powerful thing to point out. You are in the driver's seat. You are in control of what that looks like for you. And I think once a woman, or a mom, can understand that, the journey will look so different, you know? Yeah. Just knowing that you're in the driver's seat, and you're in control of how you want to be a mom, what that looks like for you, and what success is. Yeah. Whether you wanna be a generational curse breaker, continue, be less manageable- Mm-hmm ... that's completely fine. Like, you know, who is dictating what your outcome should be like or what, what your thing should be like? The sad part is we do have patriarchal societies or societal norms, um, that dictate otherwise. But again you are in the best seat of the house to dictate whether those norms are yours to carry forward or not. You know, I say this almost all the time when I speak to women on the field. Women inherit a lot of things. And I think motherhood is that pause where we determine whether what we have inherited is ours to carry forward. That's so true. Like, think about it. What, where, where did your version of success come from? It most probably was inherited, most likely from your own mother, from her insecurity, from insecurities of your friends, from what they wanted success to look like, from, um, you know, your father going to work every day and what success looked like for him, right? It almost never was our version of success, like waking up, going 9:00 to 5:00, having, uh, the bags, having the cars, having the things. If you ask a man who's like 20s, same dreams. Right. It probably was not even our version of success to inherit in the first place. So if you ask someone who's living in semi-urban or rural India, their version of success is very different. Being married, having a happy married life at 17, having two sons is probably their version of success. And many women dream of having more than that. Mm-hmm. Few achieve that, and it's sad that they... It, it stops right there. But again, it is your definition to carry forward. It's your inheritance to carry forward. And the coming generation doesn't have to inherit it. I think women today, at least my generation and the generations coming from, uh, below me know that they have a choice. They can put down what is not your- theirs to carry forward. And that's important. I think so, too. That is so important. And you called motherhood a pause, and it, it really is ... I was chasing my version of success that was probably handed. I don't remember anyone telling me I couldn't not go to college. It was like, then you go to college, then you get a career, then you do this, this, and this. And I was just, you know, on that track of what I was to believe was successful, so I think you're right. I think it's so powerful that, our generation and everybody underneath us is finally realizing that that, uh, that doesn't have to be their dream, that doesn't have to be the track, and they're shaking things up, because it, it hits harder when you are in that motherhood pause, when you are inheriting these, dreams of success, or these versions of success because then you feel like you're not being successful if you're stepping back from that career or that path, and it shouldn't have to be like that. Everyone should be able to define what is success for them and, and what makes sense. So I love that we're having this conversation and that women are going to hear this, 'cause the more we talk about it, I feel like more and more women- Mm-hmm ... will understand this and go into motherhood or go into their careers knowing that they're in control. And, and you're also allowed to redefine what success looks like for you, right? It doesn't have to be, the second you, graduate, and you, you can change that. That can evolve with you in womanhood, absolutely. I think, um, I think redefining what it means, or rather choosing to not inherit, as I call it- Yeah Hidden norms is probably way more stronger than any kind of list that's available out there. Also, find your common denominator. Yeah. Yes. That's such good advice. I love that. This has been such an enlightening conversation. It is right up my alley. I love learning about this and talking to other women about just womanhood and what that looks like in general, and allowing ourselves to be open to this reinvention. And you said it best, womanhood is like an evolution. We are constantly evolving and taking pieces of our experiences to guide us, into the next chapter. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your expertise on this. I really, really appreciate you being here on the show with me today. Thank you, Jacqueline. It was a pleasure being on the show. May I just end with one sentence? Yes. Uh- I would love that ... talking about evolution, I think you know, going from your own example of what you had built versus what you were wanted to do further on, right? I think women at some point confuse their identity, their personal identity, with the brand that they're building because it's so intertwined. And the, the evolution applies definitely to her personal identity. It doesn't have to apply to the brand that she's building. And as moms go into entrepreneurship, I think it's important that their entrepreneurship journey is, clearly defined and demarcated in identity work or any other kind of thing from their own personal journey. Yeah. ' Cause that's, it's a huge hiccup. Thank you so much for saying that. That makes so much sense, and it takes that burden off too, of like, trying to, make it all work, that's so important to share, so thank you. Of course. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. It was lovely, lovely speaking to you. I could speak to you all day. Yes. I loved this conversation. And, in the show notes, I'll share links and just so everyone can be connected to the amazing work that you're doing. I know I'm following you on Instagram now and everything, so I, I look forward to keeping up to date with your work, and thank you again for being here. Thank you so much. Take care.