Montana Outdoor Podcast
A weekly podcast covering the topics and people that make Montana’s Outdoors like no other place in the world.
Montana Outdoor Podcast
The Present & Future of Fresno and Nelson Reservoirs. Plus a Paddlefish Update!
This week on the Montana Outdoor Podcast your host Downrigger Dale talks with Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Fisheries Biologist, Cody Nagel. Rigger and many of you that sent him emails felt it was super important to check in with Cody about how Fresno and Nelson Reservoirs were doing after what we heard Bureau of Reclamation Project Manager Steve Darlinton said on last week’s Podcast. Steve showed us a very large whirlpool that had formed out in Fresno Reservoir caused by the huge amount of water that was being let out of it to get the farmers in the area much needed water for crops and livestock. If you would like to watch last week’s Podcast with guest Steve Darlinton, just click here. With drought conditions already happening and those being made worse because of the St Mary's Siphon being out of operation, there is a serious lack of water in the area and that everyone very concerned. So, with very low water now in Fresno and more water coming out of Nelson, will the fish survive? And what about the rest of the Milk River Basin? Listen to this podcast and get the answers to those and many other important questions about the present and future of these two wonderful fisheries. Plus, Cody also took some time to give a great update on how the Paddlefish season is going and he even gave some tips on how to not get skunked if you are lucky enough to have a tag for his area! Course, his great advice will work no matter where you are going to fish for those big nosed wonders of the deep. There is a TON if great information here so make sure you and mash that play button! If you want to watch the podcast you can do that on YouTube. Click here to do that! We would also love you even more than we already do if you would please share this Podcast on social media and with your friends and family!
Links:
- To learn more about Fresno Reservoir click here.
- Click here to learn more about Nelson Reservoir.
- To learn more about all the new Paddlefish regulation changes that Rigger and Cody talked about click here.
- Click here to watch Cody’s video titled "How to Snag and Release Paddlefish". It has some fantastic information!
- To watch another great video from Cody about how to catch a Paddlefish, and it is perfect to watch on your phone, click here.
- Do you have questions for Fisheries Biologist Cody Nagel? Just Click here to send him an email.
- Be sure and let Rigger know what you thought of this podcast and what your ideas are for future podcast topics!
Remember to tune in to The Montana Outdoor Radio Show, live every Saturday from 6:00AM to 8:00AM MT. The show airs on 30 radio stations across the State of Montana. You can get a list of our affiliated radio stations on our website. You can also listen to recordings of past shows, get fishing and and hunting information and much more at that website or on our Facebook page. You can also watch our radio show there as well.
This is the Montana Outdoor Podcast brought to you in part by Rocky Mountain Truck and Trailer in Missoula, home of Boss Snowplows, cm, truck beds and diamond sea trailers. Just go to R-E-M-T-T e.com for more information and buy superior hardwoods of Montana, home of the largest selection of in stock, high-end wood products and flooring in the western United States. Let them guide you through theWoods@superior-hardwoods.com. Now get ready for more fascinating topics and the most interesting people you will ever find in Montana's great outdoors. We offer new podcasts most every Saturday. You can get a link to these podcasts by going to our website, Montana outdoor.com, or by going to our Facebook page. Or just send an email to down rigger@montanaoutdoor.com. And say, send a link to my email. It's that simple. Now let's head out with your host down rigger Dale and see what's going on in Montana's great outdoors.
Downrigger Dale:Thank you very much, Manny. Welcome. Welcome into the Montana Outdoor Podcast studio. So good to have all of you along with us again, as we go in and do us more exploration of Montana's great outdoors. I wanna give a special welcome to the men and women of the United States Armed forces that are deployed all across the world. It is just an honor that so many of you uh, tune into this podcast, and I hope, uh. this brings a little bit of home back to you as you protect all of us all across the world. Also, a big thank you to our wonderful veterans that are listening, and thank you for your incredible service. Uh, To everyone listening here, I got a quick favor to ask you before we get into the podcast, and that is uh, please share this podcast on social media and with your family and friends. That helps us out a ton and um, also. For those of you that um, would like to see this on video uh, that's something new we added just a few weeks ago. So the podcast is now on video and you can uh, catch that on YouTube and I'll put a link in the podcast description there for those of you listening audio if you wanna listen later in video.'cause we'll see if we can share a few pictures and things as we go along. And sometimes you get a kind of a, an interesting view of, of different things that we talk about here. So let's. Talk a bit about what we're gonna talk about. Last week we had on Steve Darlington and he is with the Bureau of Reclamation, and we were talking about Fresno Reservoir and water levels and all kinds of things as they continue to try to um, get all that done on the, um. failure of the St. Mary's Siphon and the um, milk River Project and pretty complex major, major project. And as a result one of the things in our discussion we talked about, and I'll, I'll put up a, a uh, picture of this, but uh, Steven shared a picture of a. Pretty large Whirlpool that had formed as they're dropping the level of uh, Fresno Reservoir. And we, we started talking a little bit about, you know, how that might affect some of the fish populations and especially since, you know, we've got. Drought conditions on top of other things. So will that affect? And, And our guest today, his name came up in that discussion. His name is Cody Ngel, and he is a fisheries biologist for FWP. And uh, he said, you know. cody's probably gonna be a better one to ask, and I had already had a uh, message into Cody about that. So let's bring Cody in. Cody, thank you so much for joining us. I know you've been busy uh, with all that you have going on. Before we get into all the, the health of our fisheries around the uh, region six and the area that you cover in the, kind of the haver area and across the high line tell us a bit about yourself. What you do for the FWP and all that.
Cody Nagel:Yeah. Well, Thanks. Rigor. Um, Yeah, I've been with Montana Fish, wildlife and Parks in the haver area as the fisheries biologist since 2008. You know, I cut, cut my teeth and was introduced to, the recreation and fishing world back in North Dakota. I grew up in Bismarck so, fish, in that Missouri River system. That's kind of where I peaked my interest in fish and carried that through a, a career with FWP now. So yeah.
Downrigger Dale:Mm-hmm. And the, area that you cover. That you, you cover the, the Paddlefish and in the Missouri, and that's from the uh, Fort Pac Dam uh, going upstream, if I got that right. And then you also cover basically the uh the, Milk River basin from, what is it about Fresno to Hinsdale? Is that where your cover mostly?
Cody Nagel:yeah. So my, my general uh, management area is, is kind of, North Central Montana hill Blaine and Phillips County. So, uh, I got the Milk River basin, essentially from the eastern crossing where it comes down from Alberta, above Fresno, all the way over to Hinsdale. And then, you know, all the streams and cricks and the bear paws and little rocky mountains. All the pond fisheries up, up in this area. Um, And then yes, that paddlefish population above Fort Peck Dam.
Downrigger Dale:And we're gonna talk a bit about paddle fishing, see how that season's been going and that, but let's first get into uh, talking a little bit about uh, that discussion that I had with Steve Darlington and Fresno Reservoir. I. He had showed the, the picture of that Whirlpool and I've got it up on the screen now. So in that picture that I have up, we're looking at this Whirlpool, is that still there or has that gone away, or is it
Cody Nagel:Yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's still a, a slight whirlpool going on out there right now. I would expect that to go away here though, in the next couple days. The releases of water are starting to, to drop right now. So I would expect probably in the next day or two that they'll probably have minimum flows going out of there and, and the, amount of water and thus that whirlpool will won't, be as, as, as bad.
Downrigger Dale:Now are fish getting sucked down that whirlpool, do you think?
Cody Nagel:And we've seen this on, on a lot of, a lot of our reservoir systems, you know, when, when, whether it's a high water event or a draw down scenario. There is some, some level of fish loss uh, or flushing that, that will occur, whether it's over a spillway or, or through an outlet structure. I mean, Fish sense that, that pole of that water which kind of will attract'em. And then, yeah. Yep. And then you're dealing with different sizes of fish. You know, Right now with, it being kind of early or late spring, early summer, I mean, we have some small fish in the system yet that we're. Just hatched this spring. So, you know, They're not as strong as swimmers, so if they get sucked into that it's, it's very hard for them to swim out of it. Larger fish though they, they might be able to swim out of that and thus avoid getting flushed out of the system.
Downrigger Dale:So would they survive going through that Whirlpool?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. So, um The one thing that's unique with Fresno is it doesn't have electric hydropower on it right now. Um, So you don't have those turbine systems in there uh, that sometimes can, can chop or disorient fish. There might be some level of, Mortality. But it wouldn't be as high as say, you know, a dam that has, you know, maybe some turbine system or a hydroelectric
Downrigger Dale:Okay,
Cody Nagel:Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:they, would take kind of a wild and then
Cody Nagel:Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:end up in the milk there.
Cody Nagel:Yep. Yep. They'll end up just, getting released down into the Milk River. The only time that I've, that I've physically seen uh, any sort of fish kill through, through that dam system is like early in the spring, like when there's still ice on the on the, reservoir the, water's deep. And there's kind of a barometric barra that, that occurs where, those fish get sucked down. And, And the pressure is, what ends up being the mortality of it, not necessarily the, trip through the dam,
Downrigger Dale:And so when, you know, when we see a whirlpool like that, I start getting comments from, from anglers, and I guess I kind of, and I love all of you that, listen, don't get me wrong, but I kinda classify some of you anglers as a glass is half full, some are, the glass is half empty or completely empty. And you know, some people say, oh, well that's gonna suck all the fish out of Fresno. We aren't gonna have any more fish in there. And, And do they really have to do this? And I think Steve, pretty much answered the question of do we really have to do this? I mean, They've gotta get water down for so farmers can irrigate. You know, We just don't have much water coming into the, the Milk River from the St. Mary's siphon.'cause that blew up. Uh. Well, A little less than a year ago. And so yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do. The farmers are, we gotta have our crops. Uh, In fact, they're, from what Steve had said, they're probably only gonna get water for about the first cutting, and that's gonna be about it just because, combine the drought and the St. Mary's siphon issue. And so tell us a bit about how you feel the overall. Health of the fish population is in Fresno, given the challenges we got going on here.
Cody Nagel:Yeah so, and that's a good question. Um, you know, I think you almost have to take a step back first and just kinda see how that reservoir has a historically. Been managed water operations wise and kind of the age of that reservoir. The amount of sedimentation that has occurred has occurred over the last a hundred years. You know, One, we're dealing with a reservoir that's lost a third of its storage capacity. It's not as deep as it once was when it was previ, you know, originally built. But then on top of that. On average that reservoir usually is drawn down about 20 plus feet every year. And That usually occurs in August. A little bit different scenario this year, you know, it's down about 30 feet right now. Probably gonna lose another couple of feet yet before it's all said and done. But it's a little bit different in that. When, historically when, when these big drawdowns occur it, happens in August or September, and then you have to go through an entire winter under these low pool elevations. This year with, with that siphon being repaired and hopefully water getting moved here. In the next few weeks we're actually gonna get to see, you know, a refill of, some sort of happen through the summer into the fall which will set things up going into next year better than, than it has historically. So I guess, you know, there is a silver lining in all of it. But there, there, will be impacts for sure. Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:And to deal with those impacts. Have you guys had any plan? Are you gonna do any kind of extra stocking into that reservoir? Things like that.
Cody Nagel:Yeah, so there is a plan. We'll, see. We're gonna watch and see exactly where we end up with, our pool elevations here in the next couple weeks. I will be having crews out there. We're gonna be wa uh, monitoring water quality. So dissolved oxygen levels, you know, water temps is gonna be a big thing. During that timeframe here, where that. Where that low water is occurring. But we're waiting for that supplemental water to show up how long is that time period gonna be and, and how hot is it gonna get?'cause that that could have, you know, major impacts on the fish that remain in the system. I. Probably gonna try to get out there and do a little bit of netting to see what, we have before the refill happens, and then some additional netting and surveys in September when, when more water's in the system, just to kind of give us a baseline of, where we're at moving forward from this year. But yes, we do have plans on, on trying to get some fish stocked. Uh, We are looking to stock some walleye here towards the end of the month. It's really gonna depend on uh, if our hatchery trucks can get close to the water. So that'll be a big thing. But we also wanted to wait too, because we didn't wanna put any stocked fish in there with outflows being high and, and we're just sending those fish right down the milk River.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah.
Cody Nagel:So that's, you know, and then, um. we're also talking with mile City Hatchery too to see, you know, potentially if there's some surplus or leftover yellow perch or black croppy so that we can start to reestablish that forage base. Yet this year, you know, those would probably be stocked sometime in late July, early August. So you know, already, Already trying to look to the future and, and, and get things reestablished as quickly as possible.
Downrigger Dale:Great. How about access with these low waters you just mentioned, can a hatchery truck even get close enough? Things like that. So for fishermen, are they able to launch boats are campgrounds or areas around uh, fishing access sites around Fresno and well, I guess even the Milk River system. What's that like right now and what do you foresee going through the summer?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. I mean, The campgrounds are all gonna be open. You can use them. They're, you know, the access to the water though might be difficult. You know, When the water does get this low it, gets really mucky down near the water. You, You sink really quick. But you can still get to it. Boat access is gonna be difficult though probably for the next month and a half to two months until, until some of that supplemental water hits the system and that refill begins. But yeah, I would, I would say access is gonna be marginal at best here for the next couple months.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah. I, I, you know, I you know, as an angler you can give it a try. But you know, There's gonna be some challenges, like you say, you're gonna sink into soft ground, things like that. You need to be pretty careful with those kind of things that, so I guess overall may maybe, is it a better idea for anglers to kinda. Pick another spot for a month or two until things get stabilized.
Cody Nagel:Yeah, that probably wouldn't be a bad idea, at least on Fresno. I think access on Nelson will be okay for the summer. But yeah, Fresno Fresno's gonna be a little, little more of a challenge.
Downrigger Dale:So let's talk a bit about Nelson. So, Like you say, Nelson might have some effects there as far as uh, some accessibilities and that one thing that Steve Darlington had brought up is Nelson has a, as a bit of advantage in that it kind of has its own little, uh. what did he call it? Kind of a its own little area where that holds water within the reservoir. So, It might get through this drought uh, time and, and all this water take down time a little better. Is that, would you concur with that?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. I, you know, and, and, and Steve nailed it. It, It kind of has a natural uh, conservation pool. We'll, say where. Yeah, Yep. Where, you know, they just, how Nelson lays out you know, there's a, pretty significant amount of water that they, they just can't get to just based on how it's laid out. You know, Another, you know, again, another silver lining with some of these drought years is that it, it gives these reservoirs a chance to establish some really good terrestrial vegetation up in that littoral zone, in those shallow water areas. So that, you know, it kind of sets the stage when when the water does come back there's, an enormous amount of, terrestrial vegetation that gets inundated with that water, which just makes a huge boost to the entire water system in that fish community. You'll see big better spawning habitat. And, And this trophic upsurge, you know, macrophytes zooplankton and you get this baseline established for young fish, which leads to better growth rates and a better overall fish community in the long run.
Downrigger Dale:Okay. So like you say, there are a few silver linings around this. How about the, the milk river area for, for the area of, of the Milk River that you're covering, that, that basin there how is it holding up with the the challenges of drought and the, the whole ma St. Mary's siphon issue and that, tell us about that.
Cody Nagel:Yeah, so the, milk river, you almost gotta like, break it up into a couple different sections. There's a, lot of low head dams and weirs. You know, Fresno is an Onstream dam. I. Um, where, Where when you move down to Nelson, it's kind of off stream. It's not on the Milk River. It's, kind of off and, gets fed through a canal system. That's where that gets supplemented. But you know, below Fresno Dam, we still have a lot of major tributaries coming out of. The Bear Paw Mountains out of Southern Alberta, Southern Saskatchewan, that are gonna, you know, maintain flows below Fresno Dam through the summer. So I'm not too concerned about that, you know, that that's actually a pretty good fishery below Fresno Dam you're looking at. High densities of walleye, Northern pike small mouth bass. And then as you move down through Dodson and into, into Malta, you know, then you start running into like a catfish fishery and a bunch of other species that, that come out of the Missouri River up into the milk. You know, The one section of the Milk River that. That we've been keeping a really close eye on is that stretch upstream of Fresno, that really relies on that supplemental water and mother nature. And, And we just, you know, last year that section of river essentially went dry and, and that, river's made up of a lot of native species um, long nose suckers, flathead chubs. So bur, and, you know, it just to see that completely dry it, was, tough to see and there was some fish kills that, that occurred up in there. So hopefully some of those fish did find some refuge around Milk River, Alberta and some pool habitats or something to, keep that, that date of species. Population thriving, moving forward.
Downrigger Dale:Well, And I guess that's one of the things we forget is, you know, fish aren't stupid. When they sense levels going down they kind of naturally seek out where. To go next, right?
Cody Nagel:Yep. Yep, they do. And again it, it habitat's super important, whether it's on a, a reservoir system, a natural lake, or a river. And those, pool habitats become really important. Um, And if you don't have those, those fish have nowhere to go. They just end up on a dry sandbar.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah. Yeah. Then uh, the critters around the, area, they get a, a free lunch as.
Cody Nagel:The, birds and raccoons eat, eat really well for a few weeks. Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:Um, So overall you know, looking at, and before we move off of like Fresno and Nelson a bit,'cause Nelson's for anglers is an important reservoir in that often it kind of becomes, you know, one, it is a destination reservoir for a lot of anglers. It, It is good fishing. And this year from the reports that I've got back from anglers uh, the, fishing's been pretty darn good on Nelson. And then for anglers that really love to, to spend most of their time on Fort P when when the wind happens and they get blown off of there, Nelson becomes a real, option for a lot of anglers and they'll head there, especially seeking wildlife. How do you feel, Nelson, overall, that the health of that fishery is and, and how well will that maintain through the summer, do you feel?
Cody Nagel:Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:An educated guess, but.
Cody Nagel:Yeah. No, Nelson's Nelson's a phenomenal fishery. Yeah I, call it a four season fishery. I mean, you can, You can it, fishes really well in the wintertime. It fishes well in the spring, summer, fall. It's a multi-species fishery. I mean, People love the target walleye there. But there's a really good pike population in there. Really good perch population. And, you know, we're starting to see a, a growing small mouth bass population as well. So, Yeah it, it is, it's truly a phenomenal year round.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah you know, I, I know that that was a big concern with, with some of our anglers that send me emails on a regular basis and, and they're like, oh well, is Nelson gonna be okay? And, And so that's good to hear that. You know, It's, it should maintain. And I know the good thing is you and bureau of Reclamation and all that, everyone's been keeping a close eye on this. And you know, I know that uh you know, Steve had, you know, tried his best to assure us, you know, they're doing everything they can to, try to keep everything going. Of course, their. is for what these reservoirs were created for, which is irrigation in that, but they do still try to keep an eye on the, the wildlife. And you guys, do you guys coordinate with them quite often as far as, for the fish fishery side of it? And, that, I know they kind of get pulled both ways, but.
Cody Nagel:Yeah, no you, you bring up a good point and, and you know, kind of like you said there's, designations and purposes for, for that water right now. And, reclamation and, and even the, the irrigators um, across the, the high line. I mean, they, They care about the recreation. When you run into a situation like we've been in here recently, I think Reclamation's done a really good job of keeping us informed on what the plan is gonna be, what the water levels are gonna look like, and it's given us an opportunity to plan ahead and be prepared so that we can do our job and, and get these fisheries reestablished and rebounded as, as quickly as we can. Yeah it's, been a, it's been a good relationship.
Downrigger Dale:Mm-hmm. Okay. That's good to hear. We're gonna take a quick break. I wanted to get a chance to, uh, talk a little bit about one of our sponsors who um, has just been fantastic. Um, They're another one that this podcast would not be here if it wasn't for uh superior Hardwoods of Montana.
Superior HW 6-04-25 PC Spot:You know, They say they don't make'em like they used to, but at Superior Hardwoods of Montana, that's kind of the whole point. This isn't just a lumber yard. We're talking about 11 acres of reclaimed wood wall paneling, flooring, trim beans, slabs, you name it, every single piece has a story behind it. Old Barnes, historic homesteads, long forgotten factories. This wood has been places, and now it can be part of your story too. Maybe you're building a home, remodeling a room, or just putting together that dream project you've had on the back burner. superior Hardwoods of Montana. can help bring it to life. They can even custom mill it to fit your exact vision because real craftsmanship never goes out of style. And here's the thing, you're not just getting character and beauty when you choose reclaimed wood. You're reclaiming American history. You're giving something old, a brand new chapter with values that never go out of style. Reduce, reuse, recycle, whether you're a contractor, a weakened, DI wire, or someone who just loves a one of a kind piece of wood superior hardwoods is open to the public and ready to help exotic woods live edge slabs, pre-finished and unfinished flooring. It's all in stock and ready to go. Need help picking out the right material. Just ask. Their team has been doing it since nine. Teens 77, and they know how to guide you through the woods, literally and figuratively. Swing by their beautiful showroom at 51 20 Highway 93 South in Missoula, or check them out online@superior-hardwoods.com. I promise you, you'll leave inspired. That's Superior Hardwoods of Montana. Local, knowledgeable family run and ready to help you build something that lasts. Let them help guide you through theWoods@superiorhardwoods.com. Superior Hardwoods of Montana. Go see'em.
Downrigger Dale:we are back here on the Montana Outdoor Podcast. Um, Cody Nagle is my guest, and we're talking about the uh, milk River Basin, talking about Fresno and, and of course Nelson. And that I wanna shift gears a little bit, Cody, and talk about. Paddlefish the, fisheries biologist, you know, you, guys have to kind of be multifaceted and that you deal with everything from the tiny little microscopic stuff that fish feed on all the way to these great big, huge paddlefish, which amazes me in the Missouri River. You, you, as I mentioned before, your main. Area is from Fort Peck Dam upstream. Now that season got underway, May 1st and ends June 15th, correct? I.
Cody Nagel:Yep, you're right.
Downrigger Dale:Okay. Now uh, there were a whole bunch of rule changes and, and I think we have covered those. Hopefully those of you that wanna send me emails, by all means do, and I'll get the, your questions answered and we will. Try to get another update on anything from what you email me, everyone and, I'll try to make sure we get those answered. But from your perspective you, don't really get so much into the rule side of it, but what was the reason for the, the major rule changes as far as what you were explaining?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. So again, I think we gotta just take a step back when it just comes to Paddlefish um, and then as a species, and then as a recreational opportunity, and then kind of how the, the Montana FWP approach has been with that species for many, many years now. There's been several rule changes and regulation changes even since I showed up in 2008, whether it's changes to season structure. Um Limits on, on gaff use. We went to snag and released fish now have to stay partially submerged into the water. We've kind of changed how our, our, how our harvest and and season structures wanna be banished between the yellow tag on the Yellowstone um, and the white tag on the Missouri River. Where, I oversee. And then, you know, we've added a new green tag below Fort Peck gam. Now that kind of coincides with the yellow tag in terms of harvest. You know, And a lot of that just comes back to a long lived species and iconic big river native fish that, that anglers can still enjoy. And trying to balance sustainability of that population moving forward. Giving given, you know, some of the challenges that they have just in terms of reproduction and, and all these other requirements that need to be met for them to thrive while also allowing anglers the ability to go out there and enjoy'em. Whether that's to harvest a fish, the opportunity to harvest Fish, or the opportunity to go out there and snag and release a paddle fish.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah.
Cody Nagel:You know, So that's the balance and, and a lot of our regulations and rules center around that, you know, how do we sustain this, this iconic fish while also allowing public opportunity.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah. And I know that that has to be, you know, a bit of a juggling act in that the paddle fish and, and we'll, we'll get into some of more of the characteristics in a minute. But, you know, they, they've had some challenges and that, you know, they. When God put'em in there, they, there weren't dams, there weren't a lot of those things. So there, there's some of those challenges that you've had to deal with. But I know one of like, one of the emails I got from from one of our listeners said geez, those things the, regulations got so confusing. It's almost like they wanted to confuse us. Now, obviously that was not the intent, how what, what have you heard as far as uh, the conversations around the area have, have. Anglers kind of adopted to this. Are they figuring it out?
Cody Nagel:Yeah, no, they are figuring it out. And, you know, when we do regulation changes and stuff, I mean, we do, we try our best to, to make sure there's some consistency between the, the, the different snag fisheries and populations. But at the same time, there's also, I. Certain circumstances where, you know, what might work on the Missouri River above Fort Pack doesn't work for the Yellowstone. So, you know, There might be a little bit of deviation from time to time, but, our intent is never to make things more complicated. If, If nothing else, we're trying to make it easier and more and understandable. Um, So people can just go out there and enjoy. The opportunity rather than worrying about all the regulations, but um, sometimes that's hard to balance.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah. But on the other side, this kind of. Emphasizes the fact that when you're asked for public comment. Give that comment because I know for a fact you guys rely heavily on that from what anglers are telling you and what they're experiencing and trying to set some of those plans. So, I really have, and I know I beat this drum really hard on this podcast, but I just can't stress it enough that, you know, when you get an opportunity as anglers,'cause you know, I'm not discounting uh, your frustration at all and. I won't lie. Sometimes I get frustrated with changes, you know, we all get territorial and that's my area and I was used to doing it this way, and so I, I hear you. But things gotta change to make sure we, we keep that balance. So just remember folks when they're saying, Hey we, we want this uh, this input on, you know, this change or ideas or thoughts. They're not saying that. to say it because they have to, they're saying it'cause they really wanna know. I know that you, I'm sure get comments in that those are helpful to you, right?
Cody Nagel:Yeah, no, for sure. And you hit the nail on the head right there. During the last regulation cycle we did, we allowed. The public, the opportunity to make proposals to the department on, on certain regulations. And I believe at least two of those paddlefish regulations stemmed from public comment and they were actually submitted as public proposals. FWP looked them over and, and, and said, yes, these make sense both biologically and, we carried'em moving forward. And they were, they were moved by the public. Yep.
Downrigger Dale:Overall, how has the paddlefish season gone and do you have an idea as far as where you're at quota wise for your area?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. The Paddlefish Sea season has it, it's been Okay. You know, The one thing that we really ran into, at least on the, on the Upper Missouri River this year is, is. We kind of came in with some low flows which, which kept the fish down near the headwaters of Fort Peck and, and they didn't come up the river until about the second week of the season. And then flows, flows jumped a little bit to about 10, 11,000 CFS, which usually gets the fish up around the Fred Robinson Bridge area. Um. Then the, the flows kind of just went flat rate at that time, about the third week of May. Um, And anglers did they, did really good for about a three, four week period there. And now we're starting to see flows go back down again. I think we're right around 7,000 CFS. Historically, at this time of year we're, we're around 20,000 CFS. So, you know, In terms of a snagging season, it, I would call it a, a fair year. But in terms of like, um, the flows we'd like to see for spawning success and things like that for the fish it, it, it hasn't been a good one. But yeah. And then when it comes to the harvest cap we do have a harvest cap on the, on the upper Missouri River. You know, We're trying to harvest or see, a mortality of a, of no more than 500 paddle fish each year. I. How we do it a little bit differently though on the upper Missouri River is we do it through a lottery tag system. So every year we send out you know, a thousand people are put in for that, that tag. And we, give out a thousand harvest tags but we don't close the season down. If you drew a harvest tag, you get to go and, and, and try to harvest a fish, but we try to keep that running average below 500 and, we've been Able to do that and that's. We've been under that system now since 2016, and it's been working really well.
Downrigger Dale:And do you know how many have been harvested so far then?
Cody Nagel:So on average, we're we, usually, it's, it is typically somewhere between 375 and 475 fish is, is what we typically get for a harvest,
Downrigger Dale:I wish all the, those that uh, have a tag for that area good luck and, and by all means, be sure and send us pictures. I, I love to be able to show pictures on future podcasts and of course we love to post'em on Montana outdoor.com. So you know, uh, Send us those pictures'cause those are awesome. Now when, uh. anglers decide to make the trip. And, And uh, talked to Anglers, of course, all across the state of Montana and, and even in Wyoming. And, that I also do some, uh, broadcasts for areas of Wyoming and the Dakotas and that, and. They will travel all the way up there. People come from all over. That's a, that's an iconic thing. You get that tag you and you're like, all right, here I go and, then you, you get skunked and you're like, dang, you know, I spent all that time and money. What would you say are, are some of the most common mistakes that us anglers make? That caused us to get skunked going after those big paddle fish.
Cody Nagel:Yeah. Um, So the main thing with Paddlefish is just understanding the areas where those fish are gonna be in, in terms of relation to flows. When we don't have really good flows, it keeps the fish. In downstream locations. Sometimes they're just hard to be, you know, the accessibility to'em is, is difficult just because they're in some really remote areas. Um, And then just trying to time up the flows with some of those access areas along the Missouri River. I mean That's the, that's probably the biggest thing is just being where the fish are. It's, you know, especially if you don't have a boat or something like that. Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah. It uh, it, can be a challenge, but it it's sorta an exciting thing when you can land a, a fish like that and see'em they are a fascinating fish to me. How, long have they actually been in the, Missouri River?
Cody Nagel:I, I, I would say they've been in the Missouri River of almost as long as the Missouri River's been around. You know, They have fossil records that date back, millions of years. I've seen the number fluctuate from 70 to over 150 million years. They've been around you know, the. It's probably the biggest unique thing about that Paddle fish stock above Fort P is, to my knowledge, it's the farthest north and westerly population in the United States. So And it's an isolated population so, if what's there is there we don't, get fish coming in from, from other rivers or sections. It's an isolated population. You know, The other thing that's really cool about that Fort Peck stock is it's completely wild. We've never stocked Paddlefish.
Downrigger Dale:Oh, really? I didn't know that. Oh.
Cody Nagel:in Fort Peck. Nope. That is a completely wild stock. And, we wanna continue to manage it that way. You know, That long term sustainability on a, on a wild stock of fish,
Downrigger Dale:Okay. All right. I wanna take one more quick break here. And we're gonna chat a little bit
RMTTE 6-4-25 PC Spot:Rocky Mountain Truck and Trailer. Truth is the Montana Outdoor Podcast wouldn't exist without their incredible support. And if you've been enjoying these episodes each week, maybe it's time to support the folks who help make it happen. So here's the question. Do you need a trailer for work, for hauling gear to your next adventure or maybe a new truck bed to help keep your life organized, whether it's for work or play? Well Then go see the folks who already get what you are about If you listen to this show, you've already got something in common with Rocky Mountain Truck and Trailer like you. They love the outdoors, they work hard, and they're dang good at what they do. Their job. Helping people like you get your work done faster so you can get Back out. In Montana, it's great outdoors. Rocky Mountain Truck and Trailer carries a full lineup of diamond sea trailers, gooseneck equipment, dub trailers, well you name it. Whether you're hauling a few supplies or towing, the big stuff, diamond sea trailers are built to handle it all with reliability and ease. They also carry seam truck beds, the strongest, most durable truck beds around. Plus, they service everything they sell. Need your trailer rewired so the lights work the way they're supposed to. They'll take care of that too. Got a new truck. They'll get you set up with the accessories you need installed and ready to roll. And don't wait until the last minute to schedule your trailer service. Do that ahead of time so your gear's ready to go when you are. They also stock a huge selection of parts for Boss Snowplows, CM truck beds and diamond seat trailers. And if it's not in stuck. They'll find it. Need financing? Well, They've got you covered there too. Need a gooseneck or fifth wheel hitch for that rodeo trip or family outing to the great outdoors. Yep. They install those two Rocky Mountain Trucking Trailer. They're in Missoula at fifty six eighty Expressway. You can call'em at(406) 549-4243 or check them out online@rmtt.com. That's Rocky Mountain truck and trailer RMTT e.com. Now let's get back to what Rocky Mountain Truck and Trailer helped create the podcast.
Downrigger Dale:Back here on the Montana Outdoor Podcast, Cody Nagel and I have been talking about all kinds of things that go on there in the Milk River Basin and Missouri and all that. Before we get off that, the topic of paddlefish, which like I said, it's just such a fascinating fish what, do you find is as a biologist, of the more interesting things about that, I guess kind of a prehistoric fish.
Cody Nagel:Yeah. You know, To me one of the, one of the biggest things is, well two, two things. One how old they can live. I mean, you know, every, Every year we ask anglers to I. Voluntarily submit a section of the lower jaw on these fish from, from the harvested fish. Anyway. Um, and, And you know, one, one of the, you know, the biggest component of that is to see kind of what the age structure of of our, population is. And what we're looking for there is we wanna see young fish coming into the system. These fish don't sexually mature until they're, teenagers. You know, Females don't, don't become, um. sexually mature till they're about 16, 17 years old. Males about nine or 10. Um, So we're looking at, you know, how many young, young fish are coming into our population, but you know, also, do we have old fish in the system? And, and, And every year we see a handful of fish that exceed 60 years old. Last year we saw a fish that's 72 years old and. As a biologist right now, there, there's possibly some fish that are gonna hatch this year and recruit into the population. And I am gonna be buried in the ground. And, And those fish are gonna be swimming, you know, 40, 50 years from now. I won't be here, but they will be. So that that's, one really interesting thing about the fish. You know, The other is, you know, you look at the Missouri River and you're sitting there along the bank and you're watching all this turd muddy water coming by you and to, to think here's all this water. It looks like how would you notice a difference in a thousand CFS one way or the other? But these fish can detect that. I mean, The slightest changes and flows will make these fish migrate one way or the other. If, the water's dropping a little bit. And they don't like it. They'll, move back down river if, there's a little bit of a bump or a rise, they will shoot up river. They can travel 15 to 20 miles in a day. It's just, it they're a phenomenal fish. Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:Wow. And I, I guess, around that long, millions of years, they got it figured out by now uh, I, I had no idea. I mean, They're almost similar to people as far as how long they live and and all that stuff. That's interesting. I had no idea that, that, so they, they gotta survive a long time before they can even produce young then.
Cody Nagel:Yeah. You know, And that's one of the big challenges, you know as a biologist is, and again, when we're looking at. The recreation component and, allowing folks that opportunity, you know, we're balancing the longevity of these fish. They, They don't reproduce successfully every year. I mean, They try to, but they need a lot of to align perfectly to see, you know, good year classes produced. And we have seen that a handful of times in the last 15 years. So it, you know, they're still reproducing. They're still doing okay. But we're just we always keep a close tab on, you know, what's, what's being taken out for through harvest um, and other mortality events. And then what's coming in what's, what's the next year class looking like? What's the future look like? Because that's really important. Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:It's, amazing. It's, It's cool that we have those fish so many people. We, we have viewers and listeners from all around the world, that fish probably gets the most response from people that, that don't live near Montana and even in live in different countries that go, what in the hell is that thing and how did it get in the river? You know, it's just, It's just such a, a, a, unique thing and different. We're kinda lucky to have that fish, aren't we?
Cody Nagel:We are, you know, and you know, some of the listeners that, have probably, you know, have handled or seen a few of paddle fishes. Yeah, no. Two lookalike there is, a lot of differences. You'll, You'll see some really dark black ones, you'll see light ones, you'll see some with freckles all over'em. They're just, there's a lot of characteristics from one fish to the next. So it's pretty cool. I mean, you, you, You catch a perch and. They all look the same
Downrigger Dale:the first.
Cody Nagel:for the most part. But, these paddlefish yeah they're unique for sure.
Downrigger Dale:Wow. One of the things before we go, I wanted to touch on you know, we talked a bit about the, Milk River and your area and that, but I, I wanted to, get a little more information about that for our anglers that may have never thought about uh, you know, fish in the milk. I like that area. I, I do, I think it's, unique. It's a such a fascinating river. A lot of people don't realize that's the second longest river in Montana. A lot of people don't know that one. Uh, Missouri, of course, being the longest what. Area where, would be the best spot for anglers to, to have luck. If they say well, I don't care what a catch. I just wanna go catch something and then talk a bit about all the different species that they can find in that river.
Cody Nagel:Yeah, so your, best angling opportunities are, are probably gonna be from Fresno Dam. Downstream um, to the confluence of the Missouri River. We do have several fishing access sites along the Milk River. The tail waters FAS below Fresno Dam there's a wildlife management area that you can access uh, right around the haver area. There's a fishing access site in Malta. So you, you know, anglers will have to do a little bit of research. A lot of the land is private. But, you know, stream access law does apply, you know, so if you're willing to wade you can, fish different stretches of the river. You know, I Would say those upstream areas around Fresno Dam, down through Harlem you're primarily looking to catch probably, you know, pike walleye small mouth bass. But as you move downstream you, you can run into a lot more different species, catfish possibly soer maybe some bourbon. But you're looking at like buffalo species goldey drum. You just never know what might be on the end of your line once you get past Malta on the Milk River. But yeah it's, a really, it's kind of a hidden gem, you know? I think some of the access difficulties um, intimidate a few people, but if you're willing to put in the time and just kinda see like, Hey, where can I legally access it? Um, And you can find a couple of pools and holes and, some good areas you can have a lot of success on it.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah. One of the, my favorite areas, you know, going up from the dam on the Missouri, when you hit that confluence, you can go up into, you know, by boat into the milk a little ways and where that kind of all comes together and then going on up, that can be some really good walleye fishing at times really good. So that, that's a fun place to go. Yeah. So I, I encourage you to discover this river and, and, don't give up because of these challenges, because those, those are getting taken care of. In fact I'm, still amazed at how quickly they've moved to repair that St. Mary's siphon and the things that they're doing. Do you uh, see any kind of challenges that may happen? When they are able to turn that back on and get the flow going, is that gonna confuse fish at all? Or what do you think is gonna happen with all that?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. Um, No I, don't see, I don't see any impacts with that being reopening and that water making it back, back down uh, into Fresno and, and eventually into the milk. Um. You know, Again it, it just seems like the, long-term challenges is always gonna be a limited amount of water that can get carried through the system. And, you know, just in my time up here as the fish biologist. We, whether you're an irrigator, a municipality user an angler or a fish like it is so important. Every year we, we, all sit here and watch the weather, you know, are you gonna get that timely rain in May or June? If you get it. That can, may have huge ramifications for what your water conditions are gonna be for the rest of the summer. If you don't get it, you know, everybody's scrambling going, okay, now what do we do with the limited amount of water, you know, to go around to everybody. So that's gonna continue to be a challenge. Um. Moving forward and, and you know, again like, communicating with reclamation and, and some of these irrigation districts um, those are gonna continue so that we're, you know, we can manage these fisheries the best as we possibly can. You know, I, I'd also just like to say like, when it comes to Fresno, it's gonna be hard to say right now what the impacts are gonna look like. But again I'm, I'm trying to find silver linings here. You know, Fresno is really good at growing fish fast. Um, even if we have a major setback, if we can get, whether it's natural reproduction next spring with some stocking efforts, by two or three years, we can have a, a. A Fresno walleye is about 15, 16 inches.
Downrigger Dale:Really.
Cody Nagel:yes. Yeah, so that's a silver lining. I mean I don't foresee impacts as long as we have decent water conditions moving forward, you know, I don't see the impacts lasting 5, 10, 15 years. Um, you know, I think it'll be quick. And, And hopefully folks will get back out to Fresno because it is it's, it's when, when, everything's going well out there, it is a phenomenal. Walleye fishery. I mean it. It is a walleye factory for 14 to 20 inch walleye. It is a great place to go.
Downrigger Dale:I encourage everyone to to utilize these areas. You know, A lot of times we get focused on the big water but there's a lot to discover. Out there for sure. Cody, I wanna thank you very much for the time you've taken here today and you know, I know you're busy, but this is important for, us. Just as you know, us anglers love to have access to water. We love to have access to the biologists and that and learn more about where we're fishing. One last question I did have, it seems to be in, in. M maybe I'm just hearing more about it or that, but it just seems like mouth bass seems to be kind of on the rise these days. I hear more and more people on Fort Peck, that, that are finding them uh, really starting to have a lot of fun with that fish. They are a fun fish to to catch and to deal with. Are the small mouth bass numbers, are they increasing or are we just talking more about'em these days?
Cody Nagel:Yeah. Um, you know, Like they are increasing, they're, starting to get distributed. I'll, I'll just say that, you know, and, and, and they're. They're, a species that can thrive in a lot of different environments. They can thrive in a lake environment. They can thrive in a reservoir environment, and we're coming to find they can thrive in our cool water rivers. It's hard to say right now, like what the long-term impacts will be, if any. But, you know, anytime a new species starts to thrive. Whether, you know, it's, it's a, a fish we like to target or not, you know, there, there could be some ramifications for other species but
Downrigger Dale:Yeah.
Cody Nagel:I know a lot of the folks out in the field in my position are monitoring these populations, trying to keep track of'em and I guess as from an angler's perspective go out and enjoy'em, I guess, you know, they're, they're, here. I mean, it, It's hard to, it's hard to, hard to get rid of fish once they start to establish and, and we're finding these small mouth bass they can naturally reproduce in a lot of different environments and, and they're doing good in'em Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:And they might blend a little in a little better in tho the, your areas and that I know. Over west of the divide in the Missoula area, bitter Valley area, they have found some uh, smallies in the Bitter River, and that be a pretty catastrophic effect because that fish could, dominate that river pretty quickly. And so they, they, have asked anglers to make sure and, and do not throw any of those back. Make sure they, they are removed, but, uh.
Cody Nagel:yeah, no, I would, I would say though like, I mean just looking at another species that we're starting to learn more about, at least in our Prairie Stream system, so like some of these small streams that connect to the Milk River is. Pike do really well in, in these systems, you know, so they'll run up these little tributaries and reproduce and, and then, you know, you get small pike that, that thrive in these small prairie systems. Um, And they're, they're too small for anglers to really target or prefer, I mean, we're talking like eight to 15 inch pike, but those pike are big enough to, to really do some damage to our, you know, our native mineral populations that. That thrive in those prairie systems that that feed the forge base to the milk river. Yeah.
Downrigger Dale:Yeah it's, a never ending deal for you guys. You're like referee trying to all these fish to deal with each other, andrs and. You guys are doing a good job, and we, we certainly appreciate all you've done for us. I'm gonna put your email in the um, podcast description, so if listeners do have some, some questions for you, hopefully you'll get time to uh. get back to'em if they do. And of course, all of you listening, you're more than happy to, you're more than welcome, brother, to get back to me and, and I'll track down answers for you as as much as I can, as I always do. And, And I enjoy doing that. So be sure and send me those, those emails. Send me those pictures and let us know what else you wanna know about this area that uh, Cody's been telling us about. And, uh, that way when uh, we have him on again down the road, uh. We can answer some of those questions for you after you, you've listened and watched this podcast. Anything else before we go, Cody, that you'd like to, we outta here.
Cody Nagel:No I, I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, and if anybody has any questions or you know, feel free to email me. I will, I will get back to you at some point so, yes. Yep.
Downrigger Dale:All right. Be careful out there in Fresno. I'll stay away from that Whirlpool. Now, I told everybody, don't get your boat near that thing. That could be interesting. Anyway, Cody, thanks so much. Uh, Thanks for all you do and, and we'll see you next time uh, when we uh, visit your area.
PC Close Manny Only:Thanks for listening to the Montana Outdoor Podcast. It has been brought to you in part by Superior Hardwoods of Montana, home of the largest selection of in stock, high end wood products and flooring in the western United States. Let them guide you through theWoods@superior-hardwoods.com and by Rocky Mountain Truck and Trailer in Missoula, home of boss snowplows, cm, truck beds and diamond sea trailers. Just go to RMTT e.com for more information. So what did you think of today's podcast? Send your questions and comments to down rigger@montanaoutdoor.com. We should be dropping a new podcast this next Saturday. Until then, we will see you soon out in Montana's Great outdoors.
