Margaret Lashley on Creating Your Own Genre and Being True To Yourself

Episode 208 / Want to write something a little bit different? How do you appeal to readers in one of the main genres, but also forge your own path? 

Margaret Lashley joins us to share how she created a subgenre of wacky, humor-filled mysteries that appeal to cozy readers as well as women’s fiction readers. 

• How Margaret’s background in advertising helps her write fiction
• Why Margaret only uses one social media site
• How she markets her genre-adjacent fiction
• Writing humor as well as crafting quirky, but relatable characters
• Why a backlist is important for longevity 

Author website: https://www.margaretlashley.com https://www.facebook.com/valandpalspage

Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/B06XKJ3YD8

💜 🎙 Become a supporter of the podcast! We can’t wait to give you a shoutout in a future episode. https://wishidknownforwriters.com/support

Links: 

Findaway Voices by Spotify current TOS: https://my.findawayvoices.com/terms-of-use#

Buzzcast’s episode about Spotify: https://buzzcast.buzzsprout.com/231452/14513452-spotify-s-new-podcast-strategy

Author’s Republic: https://www.authorsrepublic.com

Spoken Realms: https://spokenrealms.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

You've got to have that what they call the hook. And that someone has to see them enough of themselves in it that they want to keep going. It's taught me to make every chapter end with some reason why you want to read the next chapter.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Right.

SPEAKER_06 0:19

And even sentences like that, you know. Read the first sentence, you want to read the second sentence. You know, that's the goal of the of the sentence. Each sentence is to provide, you know, make your reader want to read the next one.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Welcome to the Wish I'd Know Men podcast, where we focus on how authors found success, looking at strategies that have taken them to the top of the bestseller charts, as well as what they've learned from their mistakes. Because being an indie author is more than knowing the latest marketing trend. It's about being innovative and creative and learning from your mistakes.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Welcome to the Wish I'd Know Men podcast. I'm Sarah Rosette. And I'm Jamie Albright. And this week on the show we have Margaret Lashley.

Jami 1:05

Yes, we do. It was great, y'all. Margaret is hilarious. And she writes funny mysteries, uh funny women's fiction, cozy adjacent uh mysteries. They're really quirky and funny. And anyway, she has some just really unique perspectives, and it was a great interview.

Sara 1:29

Yeah, if you're interested in writing something that's not quite um in the center of a certain genre, if you want to write something that's genre adjacent, she is a good person to look to to see how she's done it.

Jami 1:40

And how she has done it, yeah.

Sara 1:42

Yeah, talk about covers and following your own path, no, staying true to your own voice, even though there's lots of things you could do. Like she talks about how she only has one social media platform that she uses. So just a really good interview. We had a great time talking with her. So that's coming up.

Jami 2:02

Yep. Go ahead. We do have new supporters. Yeah, sorry.

Sara 2:06

I have some supporters, so we could give them a shout-out. So um up first we have Lena and she chose the star emoji, the three stars.

Jami 2:15

And we have Sheena Eger and she chose the puppy, which so cute. Saka! Saka for puppies.

Sara 2:22

Yep, and then we have Sarah, Sarah with an H with the unicorn emoji.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

And we have Robin Covington uh with the crown and Carla De Bell with the heart.

Jami 2:33

Yes, thank you guys so much. We just appreciate it. And all our current supporters and past supporters. We say it all the time, but we really do appreciate it. It really does show us that you care about what we do and want us to keep doing it. So yes, it does.

Sara 2:50

And we're just thankful that um we've got this all set up and you guys can come along and support us. It's uh really it makes our day every time we see a new supporter. It does. All right. Within a small one, no, it doesn't take much to get us excited when you're a writer in your office all day. It doesn't take much.

Jami 3:10

Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah, and then you wanted to talk about, and I agree, this whole find a way voices thing and Spotify. Wow. Yeah, so talk about shockwave going across the industry.

Sara 3:24

Yeah, I'm sure that if you've been in an author group in the last week or so, you've heard about um Find Way Voices uh put out an email that they were going to update their terms of service coming in March. And there was quite a backlash from the author community.

SPEAKER_10 3:43

Yes.

Sara 3:44

And to their credit, they did um listen to feedback and change the the terms of service. So that's what's that's what happened in a nutshell. But the ramifications of it is that a lot of authors are looking around for other choices. Yeah, and I am too, to be perfectly honest. I'm looking around to see what my other options are because I feel like the the the terms of service that was originally posted was not something that I could handle. You know, it was not it it was not acceptable. It's the nicest way to say it.

Jami 4:27

Yeah, and and the fact is that I kind of felt like they just tried to sneak it in.

Sara 4:32

That's that's the bothersome thing about it.

Jami 4:35

Yeah, and I think that's the perception from a lot of people that they just tried to sneak it in.

Sara 4:40

So yeah, not not cool, not cool. Yeah, so so um I was I'm gonna post a link to a podcast from BuzzCast. They have an episode, they're more for podcasters, but uh this week or last week they had an episode come out about Spotify because Spotify has purchased Find a Way Voices, and they announced last week that they had several shows that were exclusive to Spotify, several podcast shows that now they're going to release them wide, like Joe Rogan. And so they're talking about that, but then they also talk a lot about Spotify's history. And it's very interesting because we in the author community, a lot of people were so excited when Spotify bought Find a Way Voices. Yep. But the reason I'm posting this link is it gives you some background on Spotify and how they have their their point of view, it seems to be when they come into a market, is they want to grab everything. They want to control it. They want that. That was their whole thing. Was you know, podcasting is open source. You can as long as you have an RSS feed, you can post it, you can create your own content and post it, and you're not beholden to a platform.

Jami 5:49

Right.

Sara 5:49

You can't be deplatformed, basically. And they wanted to make podcasting where you had to go through Spotify. That was their goal, you know. And it seems like they're stepping back from that with podcasting. Yeah. And now they're moving into audiobooks. So we love the people at Find Wave Voices. The people there are fantastic, but I feel like they are probably not making these decisions now.

Jami 6:11

No, they're not making these decisions. Spotify is, and they don't. I mean, it it turns out they haven't had a great reputation when it comes to the artist. Art creators, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, we'll see what happens. But thankfully they did listen to the outcry.

Sara 6:29

Yeah. So if you're looking for options, I would say um I found out that Authors Republic uh distributes to pretty much all the same places. They have a different uh like TOS. I believe I have I I've emailed with them a little bit, and they say that if you distribute through Authors Republic to Spotify, then your content is under the agreement that they have with Spotify. It's not the same as if you distribute through Fireworks. So, you know, there's an option there. And then I talked to my narrator about it, and she recommended spoken realms. She said you might want to check into that. So I haven't really looked into that one. So that's another site that also distributes audio. So that's two possible alternatives, and we will see how it shakes out in the community because there's a lot of people going to be moving around. So it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Jami 7:25

It will be, it will be. That was that was a shocker that day. Yep. I don't generally get worked up, but that did like like I was like, holy cow, what is happening? I was really young. It was kind of a and I wasn't. Yeah.

Sara 7:44

Yeah. The I guess the good thing about it was that the response was so strong from the author community. And like as Brian Cohen said on his podcast, authors read things and check the TOS and respond.

Jami 7:58

And shout out to indie authors because guess what? Trad authors wouldn't have had a say in that. And um, we're the ones that made that happen. So yeah, good for y'all.

Sara 8:08

Yeah. And like all my books that are with my traditional publisher, I have no say in how they're used in audio.

Jami 8:14

Right.

Sara 8:15

But like for my indie stuff, yeah. And we've learned indie authors have learned the hard way that if we don't stand up for ourselves, nobody else is going to.

Jami 8:22

Nobody else is going to. No, no, that's not. Well, do you have any news this week?

Sara 8:27

Uh no, that's about it. I mean, it's been another riding week, which is good. And get more words in.

Jami 8:33

Yeah.

Sara 8:34

And weather's been beautiful, then going on some walks, and that is like yeah, it's like 80 degrees here today.

Jami 8:41

It's our early spring. It's amazing. But uh, same, same. Well, I'm not riding because I had fully intended to. I'm keeping my grandkids this week with the other grandmother, you know, loco camp. And uh last loco camp, uh, I got bruised pretty badly by one of the grandkids. And um, she broke her arm with the walking the dog. So this one has been a lot better, all things considered. The other grandmother broke her arm, right? Yeah, the other grandmother broke her arm. Oh, and and really I got bruised because I was not being careful, but uh it was yeah, it was a lot. But this one has been better, except for the fact that uh the kids didn't they go to school Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Well, the oldest goes every day, but the the four little ones go Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Monday was a holiday. So we had Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday to, you know. Just like summertime. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like summertime. And uh it was so they were supposed to go to school today, and that's the first thing both of us said. Like, oh, it's school day. And then one of them has straps, so he's home, but that's okay. I mean, he's that's not a big deal, and I hate that he's sick. But uh yesterday I realized at about 1230 that I put my pants on backwards that morning, and I don't know what is worse, that I put my pants on backwards, or I didn't recognize it until noon. Yeah, 1230. They've been on at that point at least five hours. So uh yeah, so that's how it's going here, but we're good. We're good. And that's what Jamie writes comedy. Yes, it's always fun. I mean, we've had a blast, and we took them to the zoo, and that was super fun. And I mean, you know, we we took them to McDonald's, they never go to McDonald's. So when we we took them to McDonald's on the way to the zoo, and you would have thought we had taken them to the Ritz Carlson, they were so excited, and uh, you know, for and then my grandson took a bite of the chicken nuggets and said, These don't take like Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets. Leslie and I just went, No, not up to the standards, right? Yes, funny. But that's it. That's all so. I haven't gotten today. I was gonna write, and I had to end up taking him to the doctor, and so it's fine. It's fine. I'll get I'll get back to it. But uh it's been just more fodder, more fodder for the humor for the old, the old uh plodding fodder. The old humor vault. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, we should get on with the interview because it's awesome.

Sara 11:25

Yes. All right, so here is Margaret. Yeah. Well, today we are really happy to talk with Margaret Lashley. Hi, Margaret, how are you?

SPEAKER_06 11:32

I'm great, Sarah. How are you?

Sara 11:35

We are doing good.

SPEAKER_06 11:36

Yep, we're great.

Sara 11:37

We're so happy you're here.

SPEAKER_05 11:39

Hey, hi, everybody.

Sara 11:42

So let me read Margaret's bio and we'll get going. As a native of the Sunshine State, Margaret was weaned on weird. She puts her extensive background in the local culture to bear in creating side-splitting mysteries jam-packed with plot twists and turns you'll never see coming. What she what really sets her stories apart are the quirky, flawed characters you'll no doubt recognize as people you've seen somewhere along the way.

unknown 12:04

Yeah.

Sara 12:04

So I love that.

Jami 12:07

So, how did you get into riding, Margaret?

SPEAKER_06 12:10

Well, it was kind of a process of elimination in college. I determined I was no good at anything else. So I became an advertising copywriter. Well, there you go. Yeah.

Sara 12:25

That sounds familiar to me.

Jami 12:27

Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah, yeah. And what about novels? How did you get into writing novels?

SPEAKER_06 12:34

Well, I um did had a pretty decent advertising career. And then I went, I I um kind of chugged my life and ran off to Europe for seven years. And when I got back, um the career that had been quite lucrative for me was now paying five dollars a brochure. And I decided, well, I'm not gonna do that. I've got to figure out something else I can do. And um I kind of um ended up going to a meetup group about writing a novel and just cranked out. It took me a year and a half to crank out my first novel, Glad One, and I thought, I can do this. I can do this. And uh it it's it turned out to be somewhat successful, so I just kept rolling with it. Very good.

Sara 13:30

So was that your first, is that the book in your one in your your first series?

SPEAKER_06 13:34

That yeah, that's the very first book I wrote, and then um I wrote the prequel to it afterwards, which is kind of a backstory of how the protagonist Val Fremden ended up being dumped into um the world that she was, you know, found herself in. And it's a little it's a little bit based on my autobiography of going to Europe for seven years and coming back in the world being just you feel like a tourist in your own life. Yeah, culture shock, yeah. Yes, yeah, and that you're not you don't belong anymore, even though it's somewhat familiar. Seven years is a long time, especially in Florida, for a transitory state for people for everything you know to just be erased.

SPEAKER_10 14:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:20

Wow.

Sara 14:20

Yeah. But then you have fresh eyes when you come back, right? You see everything.

SPEAKER_06 14:25

Fresh jaded eyes.

SPEAKER_05 14:31

Well, we are wiser, but not necessarily smarter in the ways of the world.

Sara 14:37

Yeah. We've all been there. So yeah. Well, we always like to ask everybody, what is your definition of success?

SPEAKER_06 14:45

My definition of success is happiness. It's the personal happiness and it's time freedom. Yeah. If I have the time to be able to live the life that I want um without the nagging, you know, I I've never been able to sit in a chair very well. And so as for somebody else anyway. But you know, being your own boss is a lot of people's dreams. But when your boss is a bitch like me, you know, it's it can be kind of demanding. But I've learned to relax after a while, after after I've started getting enough sales and enough uh books underneath under my belt to to sit and relax. And I feel like I reached success when I could pay all my bills and still save money and only work when I really felt like it.

Jami 15:45

Yeah, that's a great, that's a great definition. And what I love though is that it's always different with people and um it usually changes over time too, which is funny because yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:00

Yeah. Well, at first it was making a certain amount of money, you know, like survival money. Right. And but after a while too, you have you and the quality of life factors. Once you've met those first um things like food and shelter, you know, some you can start being luxurious about like I'd I'd really like to have time to go for a nice walk and not feel like I'm wasting, you know, I should be writing, I should be writing, I should be writing.

Jami 16:27

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 16:29

Yeah.

Jami 16:29

Well, what do you wish you'd known about riding in craft when you started?

SPEAKER_06 16:35

Um how underappreciated um correct grammar and is I did I did a lot of fretting about everything being perfect and you know, everything and and I realized that that's not the most important thing. The most important thing is creating compelling characters and stories.

Sara 17:01

Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine with your background in advertising, you know, everything had to be, you know, error-free. So it's a when you're writing dialogue, a description.

SPEAKER_06 17:15

It used to have to be like that. Now you can look at a billboard of a major corporation, it'll have one sentence with two errors in it.

unknown 17:23

That's true.

SPEAKER_06 17:24

It just makes me insane. So nobody cares about any of that anymore. No, sadly. Yeah, but but having to craft that in initially, you know, I mean, the grammar and the and the advertising taught me too to capture someone's attention immediately. Because you only have that first line, those first few seconds, and then someone's gonna say, moving on. But that background was really a really a treasure for me because it really did provide the skills that I think sometimes people are missing, and that you get caught up in that first story. I mean, it's and it's like, oh, I've got to write my memoir, and everyone will be totally interested. And you're like, yeah, good luck with that on me. But you know, it has to be that something in it for the other, for the reader, not for yourself, but for the reader, you know.

Sara 18:28

Yeah, well, that's interesting because I feel like advertising. Our next question is what about marketing? What do you wish you'd known about marketing? But I think that, like you say, advertising has helped you with the the fiction writing as well. But did it help you with the marketing aspect as well?

SPEAKER_06 18:45

Yes. I mean, I'm pretty good at creating ads because that was my profession at one time. But um, but it also helps with the novel writing in that the you know, you want to tell a story, but you want to tell it in a way that people want to read it. You know, you've got to be compelling, you've got to be interesting, you've got to have that what they call the hook. And that someone has to see them enough of themselves in it that they uh want to keep going. It's taught me to make every chapter end with some reason why you want to read the next chapter.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Right.

SPEAKER_06 19:29

And even sentences like that, you know. Read the first sentence, you want to read the second sentence. You know, that's the goal of the of the sentence, each sentence is to provide, you know, make your reader want to read the next one. Advertising taught me that because I mean sometimes we only had one sentence. Right. Sometimes we didn't even have a whole sentence.

Sara 19:51

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

Yes, yes.

Sara 19:56

Well, is there anything else that you wish you had known about marketing when you got started? I mean, you've got a pretty good base, but anything else come to you like marketing fiction, maybe?

SPEAKER_06 20:05

Yes. Well, you know, I knew the words, but I I always worked with a graphic artist who did the visual. And though I might have a concept of it, like, oh, you know, we could have this ball bouncing and then, you know, whatever, we're on a roll or whatever. But I suck at book covers. I think I'm really great at book covers and I sabotage myself constantly with with like I'm like that person. My worst client, my worst advertising client I ever had was this restaurant. And he wanted to put his entire menu on the billboard as you drive by.

Sara 20:46

And that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_06 20:48

Yeah, no, I mean that that's really not what we're after here. Um, but but I feel like I do that on my book covers. It's like there's just way too much stuff going on here. Why you know can't I just pick something and then I get really insecure about it? And and um I have redone some of my book covers so so many times I'm embarrassed. I mean a lot of them no one has ever seen. I've kind of I gave up on them before they ever even went to print. Thank God. But but I'm in the middle of an existential crisis now with my current book covers for my new series. I'm like, this is, I don't think this is right. My poor, my the poor people that I work with at the um the cut graphics designers who do the covers, I just think they probably have the voodoo doll of me going.

Sara 21:36

It's another email from Margaret. Run. That's right. I think we've all been there on that. Covers are really hard. And that makes me personally feel better to know you come from advertising and they're difficult for you. That gives me some comfort.

Jami 21:50

Yeah. They're hard, they're just hard. Yeah, they're the worst. I know, I know. Hi, um, yeah, I'm in the middle of doing. My bra, well, not in the middle. I'm gonna redo my broad covers, and I'm I'm actually working with someone that's helping me with them because I just am not good about communicating with the artist what I want, you know, and uh I can't I'm not a very good artist because I can see something, but I can't translate that to the paper. Like I can't do that. So it's the same thing when I'm communicating to an artist. I don't know how to compute communicate what it is I want. So I'm I've got somebody doing that.

Sara 22:34

So you're working with an interpreter, basically.

Jami 22:36

Pretty much, yeah, pretty much. It's like sign language.

SPEAKER_06 22:39

Most of it's like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing. No, it's it's it's it's very hard, you know. It's like trying to tell someone, hey, I've got this idea for this book and it should go like this, and then they're like, but we're at the word, you know. We're like, what is the graphic behind that? You know, how do we convey that? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you sometimes have to just l let people go roll with it and with and just cut the cover artist loose and let them give you some ideas, maybe.

Sara 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:14

I mean, I look at the other covers, you know, that are maybe like on the top 100 or whatever, but you know, and they're all so different. It's true. You know, so there's no like formula and you don't want to look just like everybody else. I mean, because yeah, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm quite the cozy, you know, whatever.

Sara 23:34

Yeah, your your books don't really fit solidly in. They're cozy. I say they're cozy adjacent, sort of. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_06 23:42

Right. Yeah, that's what I call them, cozy adjacent. I mean, they they fit the tropes in that, you know, there's not it's a it's a clean, you know, there's no cuss words, there's no sex on the page, there's no graphic violence, but it's very humor forward. And the mysteries aren't always about someone getting murdered. There isn't always a body to, you know, and then the sleuth has to figure out who murdered what. There's all kinds of mysteries of life that need to be solved. And it's very character-driven um and has more heartfelt relationships between the characters than I think is the typical. It's not it's not all about solving that mystery. Yeah. This is a my books are more about diving into a world that you wish you lived in. A world that is that kind of everything's at the end is really safe kind of world that we all, you know, we all thought we were gonna grow up and live in and have all of these kooky characters who nobody's really ever totally evil, you know, and and um, and you can feel good about the world at the end of it, kind of thing, even though people are crazy and they do crazy things. They're not intentionally evil kind of care. I don't know, people love each other in my novels with the broken kind of love that we've all got to offer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is no perfect moment, you know. Everybody has their craziness, and we and you learn to to live it with that and accept that kind of flawed existence.

Jami 25:29

I love that, and I love that you know that, you know what I'm saying? So because a lot of people don't. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:37

And there's no size two little cute, wonderful woman here who knows everything and is gonna like walk, stomping her stilettos over and solve some kind of um, you know, brainiac person who's gonna point out all the little things you missed and make you feel like, uh, why didn't I get that? Yeah, we were all we've all got, we're all just average kind of or you know, clunking along in the world, trying to survive, yeah, and and love each other and have some fun along the way.

Jami 26:11

I love that. I love that. Well, what assumptions did you make at the beginning of your writing career? And looking back, did that turn out to be right or wrong?

SPEAKER_06 26:20

Now, are you talking about the the novel writing career?

Jami 26:23

Yes, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 26:24

Yeah, yeah, I just want to make sure that hasn't my um I thought it was gonna be harder than it was for me. I did not think that my first book was gonna be accepted like it was. I w I didn't have a lot of expectations. I was I was hoping, you know, of course. But then I also I didn't realize how hard it was gonna be to write a book. You know. Um so there's the yin and yang of it because to write something that I felt really good about. I mean, glad one took me a year and a half to write. And uh, and then I didn't expect I didn't, I was not prepared for the terror of publishing a novel.

unknown 27:19

Yeah.

Sara 27:20

Good way to describe it.

SPEAKER_06 27:21

Yeah, you are just like every your soul is in that thing, and it's like, here's my baby. Please don't call it ugly.

SPEAKER_05 27:30

Don't hate my baby, you know? And then you're like, you feel like you're running naked down the road with your hair on fire. You know, it's like, what's gonna happen now?

Jami 27:40

Screaming, love me, love me. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 27:43

You're totally exposed, and you feel like I'm an automatic failure. As soon as you push in, it's like the nerve of me. I pushed, I pushed print and now I'm like screwed.

SPEAKER_06 27:54

I can't take it back because it's always out there, yeah.

Sara 27:58

Yeah, even if you take it down.

SPEAKER_06 27:59

Yeah, I was totally not prepared for those kind of feelings.

SPEAKER_10 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:03

Yeah. I would totally wasn't prepared computer-wise either, because I mean I didn't even have an Amazon account. I had no Facebook account, no Amazon account when I started. So, and I had I the only thing I had knew how to do was Microsoft Word. And I still write in Microsoft Word. So do I. And and that was the only computer program I kind of knew. And I only had survival skills in that. So I wasn't prepared for how many programs I was gonna have to learn and how many, you know, services there were out there to that you really need, you know, how all the pieces fit together. I really didn't know anything except, you know, that I knew I knew I could write. And I thought, well, it's you know, I I think I can do this. And thank goodness, otherwise I'd be waiting tables at a roadside truck stop about right now.

Jami 28:58

You'd be the heroine in your own books. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 29:04

Well, it'd be a little bit tad more tragic, maybe.

Jami 29:09

Possibly, yeah.

Sara 29:10

Yeah. Well, what's the most important lesson you've learned?

Jami 29:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 29:19

To believe in yourself, to believe in your own voice, and to not and to abandon this fear of missing out on, you know, I'm still on my own. I I have, you know, dabbed a toe here and there into some things like TikTok or whatever, but I am still just the riding my old pony, which is I'm totally on Amazon, a K-U. I'm in only in the US. I'm all I I do, I'm doing the easiest thing I can for the because I'm just what I call the one woman shit show.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

It's just me. I gotta do all this crap.

SPEAKER_06 30:07

And so so staying with Amazon and Audible, and I'm just like, you know, that's my little oyster. I figure if Amazon goes down, the world has ended anyway.

Sara 30:18

So we got bigger problems.

Jami 30:20

We have bigger problems than yeah, my books.

SPEAKER_06 30:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so I guess the lesson I learned is do it your way and don't feel like you've got to try everything at that, everything new that comes out. I'm I'm on Facebook only. That's my social media. And I I post something every day, and I've built an audience with that. I have like 6,500 followers, which, you know, I it's not the biggest thing in the world, but but it works for me. I'm happy to I I feel comfortable. Do what you feel comfortable with, you know. I am not comfortable like being out there doing videos and things like Jamie does. Um, I just I do I post my little meme, and I have this last within the last year added that some of my memes actually include a photo of me. That's like revolutionary. So so I'm taking little baby steps of of things, but yeah, yeah.

Jami 31:19

But my my kids wish I wasn't like that. So my kids wish I was more like you, not share too much with the grandma, right?

SPEAKER_06 31:28

I mean they want you to be a traditional grandma, and I have no kids, so I should I can still be like crazy old lady, you know. That's but I but uh anyway, yeah. Keep keep in your comfort zone because would be the thing that I do. You don't have to be everything to everybody.

Jami 31:47

Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you were starting over today, what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_10 31:54

Um question.

SPEAKER_06 32:02

Yeah. I I think I would not go to groups. My my meeting group was we read aloud and you have people critique your work. And people who know nothing can give you their opinion just as well as people who know everything. Right. And then you you take it to heart and you destroy your voice, you destroy your dreams based on strangers' opinions. So I mean, you need an ad you do need an editor, but you need someone that's on your side and not just some stranger. Don't don't read your stuff in a group, I guess, because it it's it's terrifying and tormenting and soul destroying.

Jami 32:59

And especially when you do comedy in a group. Yes. I mean, I was really lucky the people got my sense of humor, but it can it can be yeah, it can be a bad situation. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 33:13

And humor is so subjective. And when you've got five, you know, five or six people in a room, you know, the odds are that you're gonna please everybody is pretty much zero. Even with that, even with that small of a group. Right. So um, yeah, don't don't let someone else's opinion change your mind if you believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_10 33:40

You know.

Jami 33:41

And I can say that you've done that. Like you, you know, you you knew what you wanted to write when you start. Well, my impression is you knew what you wanted to write when you started writing. Because I met you very shortly after Yes. You yeah, and and you really hung on to that. And and that really kind of leads us to our next question, which Sarah, you can go ahead and ask that if you want, but but I I really appreciated that about you because you you were determined to continue to write these characters the way you saw them, and I love that. Thanks.

Sara 34:19

Yeah, that's what we were wanted to talk to you about as well was um writing in a like an adjacent genre. I feel like you've kind of created your own little niche where you're you have do you have mystery readers and maybe women's fiction readers? I would feel like that there would be a kind of a crossover there. So, how did you do that? How did you carve out this little special area?

SPEAKER_06 34:42

Well, I got a knife. Now I guess all the details. I did nothing except believe that the readers really don't know anything about genres.

Sara 35:00

That is a good point. Yeah. Other than that, they're not as uh into the fine green details as we offer.

SPEAKER_06 35:09

Seriously, we can't even decide what a cozy is. What's a reader gonna do, you know? So what I did was market use the advertising terms that I would use if I was looking for something like a a funny mystery for women or things like that. And so I I might I I don't I don't know if any of my books are even in um, you know how you get the three categories you can choose for Amazon. I just let Amazon choose them. I know it's against what everybody is supposed to say, but I for my the first books in my series, each of my series, I choose three categories and then I just let the rest of it slide.

Sara 35:55

But I um that's very gone brand for you, Margaret.

SPEAKER_08 35:59

It is. It's what?

Sara 36:01

It's very oh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 36:04

I'm the woman that follows no rules because I cannot be tamed. But but yeah, it's like I um it I just I use like humorous women's fiction and amateur sleuths and things like that. Um and people find you, and but I find that you know, making contacts with on Facebook and and answering people's messages on Facebook and I run Facebook ads, um, that has helped people take a chance on me. And I use reader quote or reader um reviews in my ads because they are the ones that are gonna decide if you're any good or not. And they come up with the most wonderful things that you would never think of. Like I, you know, I'm trying to describe what how do I describe my writing? And this woman wrote deliciously screwball.

SPEAKER_05 37:06

I love it. I know, and I thought, oh, can I hire you? You know, just be my campaign manager, you know.

Jami 37:13

My hype person, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

Right, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 37:17

And so um my my best, I I got early on, I got compared to Janet Ivanovich, you know, because she is really was the only kind of humor comedy or humor mystery novel novelist out there that was widely known. And I still get can still get compared to her, but everybody uses her now. I don't know. It's um I keep waiting for the one day when I'm like scrolling through, you know, some Facebook ad and I said, you know, this woman, this book is as funny as Margaret Lashley's book. Then you know you're on to something, right?

Jami 37:56

Yeah, then you've made it.

SPEAKER_06 37:57

I haven't seen that yet.

Jami 38:00

Well, I mean, I just think that goes back to really believing in yourself and believing in your idea of what you want to write and the stories you have in your head. And um, yeah, I mean, I I I think it you really stuck to it and you found your readers, and I love that. I just feel like you um I know in the beginning, did you struggle in the beginning a little bit to find readers or did they just come automatically?

SPEAKER_06 38:31

Yeah, I struggled. I mean, getting known is the hardest part of this business, right? Yeah, but I knew that coming in from an advertising background, and I used to do a lot more, you know. I I started doing the book funnel thingy um things, but um, I'd run little contests and have giveaways. I made special sunglasses and stuff like that. It's like here's a pair of my special sunglasses that I gave away during my first uh I I did a lot more engagement, um but I um I don't know. I forgot the question now I'll sign up.

Jami 39:17

Did you struggled in the beginning to find research?

SPEAKER_06 39:20

Yes, yeah, I did. I did. I mean, everybody does. I mean, yes. I mean, my first year with my first book, I made like $13,000, which other people wouldn't consider that a struggle. But but when that's your only source of income, yeah. It's a struggle.

Jami 39:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 39:42

And it's still been my only source of income. I did not go get another job. I did not do anything. I just I put this mindset out there that this was gonna happen. It I mean, I I've always been pretty good at setting my mind at something and doing it. And I knew I had all the skills for it except the computer skills, and and those I've learned along the way. So yeah, no, every time everybody should, I mean, I was not like this hip home run. The second year I didn't made enough money to live, but I had like um three or four books then too.

Jami 40:18

So it makes a difference, and that you know. And then you just bought a house with your book money. I did.

SPEAKER_06 40:25

I mean, I didn't pay a little cash for the house, but yeah, but it's the first time I've I mean, I've I lived very modestly too, and that was another thing, so that I didn't have to be so worried about making money. I lived in like this 375 square foot apartment for like a long time until I felt like I had um I I I could count on, you know, yeah, um, a certain level of income. So uh so yeah, I mean, I I'm I am the the queen of delayed gratification. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah, and it takes a while to to I mean I think people could learn a lesson from that. Don't expect to hit it. I mean, you might get you might, you know, don't set, don't say you it's not gonna happen, but don't bet the farm on your first book being like a home run and whatever. It's um it's a process, it's it's a little bit of a marathon to build up a little bit of a backlist, but but you know, you don't have to be on a treadmill forever. Right. But you know, you need to be somewhat on a treadmill until you get at least 10 or 15 books. You know, and then you, you know, I only write now two books a year, maybe three, two and a half books, you know, so five every two years, and uh, and that's okay. That's yeah, because you have your backlist, yeah. Yeah, I have my point. Yeah, and you don't don't think, oh, I'm gonna write this book and it's you know, it's gonna have a life for you know, six months or whatever, and then nothing. No, Glad One is still seven years later, my best selling book.

Sara 42:12

That's terrific.

SPEAKER_06 42:13

Yeah, yeah, I love that. So it doesn't have to, you know, people think, you know, I gotta keep churning and churning and churning and get some new books. But you know, don't think like I mean, it's not like the book has gone bad, you know. Right. I need to toss it out. It's you know, it's it's gone rotten or something. No, I mean that's they're they're just as viable today as the day you publish them. Right. And every and every every minute, I think, I think of it this way, every day, probably about 10,000 women turn 45. And they're in my audience group.

Sara 42:52

Got a new batch every so often.

SPEAKER_06 42:54

Every day, every day.

Sara 42:56

So do you advertise to that book one and still do promotions to that book one?

SPEAKER_06 43:00

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And but I also advertise to the three book set of the first, second, third books. That's really my number one seller because it may, of course, it costs more, so it ends up with more uh revenue for per per thing. But then the next book in line is Glad One.

Sara 43:23

Nice.

Jami 43:24

Yeah, I love how you've made your backlist really work for you. Well, let's talk about writing humor. Okay. So, like, what's your philosophy? I mean, like, how do you I hate this question because people ask me all the time, but I'm gonna ask you like, how do you ride humor? You know, um, somebody's yeah, I mean, what's your philosophy on that?

SPEAKER_06 43:48

Like, do you pull back if you could just like step in my shoes for one day, you would see how hilarious life can be. So it's innate. Yeah, okay. I mean. I I actually have have a really hard background and so um my childhood wasn't the greatest and so every day that uh for me that is is like a holiday because it's easy comparatively easy and I can choose what I want and do what I want and I have I took a lot of time to uh learn to see the treasure in every experience, every experience, every, every every every every experience and there is treasure there, there's gold there, and once you see it, you can also see the humor in it.

Jami 44:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just taking things and making them finding that in your stories. Uh you know, right.

SPEAKER_06 44:58

Well, we all have basically the same human experience in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_09 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:04

And um we but we all see it in an in our kaleidoscope, you know, of things happening. And how you deal with things. I mean, one of my readers wrote, she says, I how she is able to write about trauma and make it beautiful and funny is just amazing. And so my stories are do have trauma in them, but they're not sad sack trauma. They are really my attempt to provide to show the healing that I've had that the way you can look at something and see the gift in it. And so I do that in my stories. Um people write and say, say, you know, like you helped me through my mom's death, you know, and help me keep going. And and you just think, oh my gosh, that's that's I mean, to me, that's what some of the most rewarding stuff is um is is how you've you've touched people and you like related stories. Um, so the humor for for me isn't just slapstick, but I will take slapstick any day of the week if I can get right. But there's I'll grab that low-hanging fruit, yeah. Right, yeah, low-hanging fruit, high-hanging fruit, you know. I'll even go skydiving for fruit, you know.

Jami 46:26

Are there are there things you wouldn't do uh with your for humor?

SPEAKER_06 46:32

Yes, I would not um belittle somebody to that about something that was a genuinely painful issue for them, you know? Someone who's not ready for it, you know, somebody who's not that tough kind of character who can take that whatever, I would not do that.

Jami 46:58

Right, you know, right, yeah. I mean, I think that there are um no means.

SPEAKER_06 47:05

It doesn't have to be mean. Mean, yeah, mean spirited, yeah. Mean spirited, yeah.

Jami 47:09

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 47:11

Because I mean we got enough of that crap in our lives, don't we? We don't need to read about it, right? Right, turn on the TV, it's full of mean-spirited, hateful people, and I'm providing an escape from that. You know, remember when the TV was like people had like morals and they actually genuinely cared about people?

Jami 47:30

Yeah, when they cared about yeah, other people.

SPEAKER_06 47:32

Right? Yeah, I'm providing that old-fashioned escape where it's not so. It's kind of like a little bit, I love Lucy meets my name is Earl meets, you know, like um like just craziness, you know? Craziness, but with a that leaves you with like a warm feeling, I'd sound like you you like genuinely like the people that are involved in the story. That's right. You know, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Even if they can, you know, even though they are all fatally flawed.

Sara 48:05

Yeah, well, let's talk about that because uh one of the one of my pet peeves with cozy mysteries is that they have quirky characters, but the only reason they're there is just because they're quirky. And so how do you write interesting quirky characters, but that they're relatable? How do you do that?

SPEAKER_06 48:25

You find a way that they need each other. A way that they that they support each other and they complete a piece of the search for, and I'm not talking about so much solving the mystery, but the search for wholeness in the characters themselves. Sometimes they make fun of the other character because it's what's missing in them too. And and then they can, you know, or they can bounce some of their own um self-denigrating thoughts off onto somebody else, but realize that's what they're doing. You know?

Jami 49:12

Yeah, yeah. I love that the the the quirky like when you said that about completing the it they complete the picture, like you know, the quirky picture. Yeah, they complete the picture and um but they do serve a purpose, they're not just there to be no, they they are individuals on their own.

SPEAKER_06 49:36

So you know sometimes the person who's probably you're never gonna see again is there for a purpose, but they are also are not just there for, you know, as like the person I can blame for this or whatever. Right. You know, like who cares? They're not really a person anyways. Right. I don't like that because I think that you know, you should actually get an image of that person in your mind and realize that some of their motivations behind what they've done or what or haven't done, you know. That because I I don't know, like I said, I don't think anybody is completely innocent and pure and wonderful or completely horrible and bad and and deserving some kind of horrid death, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

So um well, how would you do that? Oh, I'm sorry, keep keep going.

SPEAKER_06 50:31

I was just gonna say it's but together they complete the picture of the story, but they also help complete some of the main characters. You you know, you find out things about the main characters that you've always wandered, yes, yes, you know, yeah, yeah.

Sara 50:46

So they reveal things, maybe about the characters past. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. My question was how do you do that over a series? Because you have recurring characters, yeah, years aren't standalones. So when you bring somebody in, do you have a plan and say, okay, I know this person is still gonna be around in book four, or do you absolutely not.

Jami 51:08

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_06 51:09

If you answered yes, I'm gonna get he's gonna go cry. I'm freaking hijacked by these characters, you know. I'm sitting here writing, oh well, this guy's just gonna walk in, you know, and do this. And then it's like, oh my god, now he's the main character.

SPEAKER_05 51:24

Get out of my life, buddy. I didn't want you in here.

SPEAKER_06 51:27

But but but they do um, you know, it sounds like yeah, sometimes they take over because what it is, I think, is you've got this thought that you can't express with somebody else, and that this person has legs, as they say, in the industry, but they've got they've got more to say. You know, I I wrote this guy, Farrell Fingerman. He was this I love names. I mean, the names are just hilarious. Farrell Fingerman, of course, is an ambulance chasing attorney. Of course he is. He wears a he wears a light blue leisure suit stained with 50 decades of you know coffee and all that other stuff. And uh I thought, you know, he's gonna plague Val in one of these books, and that'll be the end of him. Oh no, that man would not go away. He's in almost every, I mean he's as I think in every book since he debuted. But you just got so much uh juice. The guy's got juice, you know, you gotta keep squeezing it. So um, you know, some one of the few characters I wrote in that I thought, oh, why'd I do that? Was to give Val a dog. I know people love dogs. I was traumatized by dogs as a child. Dogs are are scary for me, and but I thought I'm gonna deal with this. And then Six Tricks, I had Val get over her fear of dogs and everything, and then they got a dog. And people want to know more about the dog, but the dog to me is so insignificant to the to the juicy human saga going on that it's really hard for me to find a place to work that in. It's it's it seems irrelevant. And I know that's probably I don't mean to say that pets are irrelevant, but I'm just saying to the story, yeah, to the story of Al and her characters, it's there it's it's really not the where I'm going. There's plenty of pet cozies out there you can read about, and pets are awesome, but pets don't in my book world don't solve crimes or do anything like that.

Sara 53:40

You know? Yep, yeah. So you can't have the same like emotional resonance that you could with a character, a different type of character. Yes, they're sweet, dogs and cats. Pets are sweet and fun to have. Yeah. But yeah, I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_06 53:55

But after you know, they've chewed up your favorite pair of shoes and other options. It's a comically we're what are they gonna really do? You know? Yeah, exactly.

Jami 54:05

So well, this has been amazing, and I will tell y'all that her books are hilarious. I mean, they are so funny, and um so you do just such a great job of capturing um the tone of uh, you know, of what you're trying, you know, the the the world that you've built. And um, yeah, they're great. So, but tell us what you think the best thing you've done to set yourself up for success has been.

SPEAKER_06 54:36

Um giving myself the time. I I lived on my savings, which I know not everybody can do, but I I lived on my savings for a year and gave myself time to actually do the the work that needs to be done to get do a book and and and to I believe that you have something to say and that it's unique. You know, but don't do your memoir, please. Nobody cares. Um you that's your that's the memoir book. I have one, believe me. I speak from experience. Yeah, I have one that's like in pieces. The memo I can I kind of uh compare it to like making pancakes, you know. Yeah at first pancake is a freaking mess. Yeah. Because you're trying you're trying to get the griddle the right thing, the batter the right way, everything's the right way. And you're a mess. You're trying because when writers who when we write, we are trying to heal some part of ourselves in some ways, right? And so when you're writing that memoir, it's a mess. And so do what you need to do to get your hurt your that out of you so that you can go on and project some other things into other characters that aren't isn't so specific to you, right? You know, and create a world that you would enjoy living in, create characters you would enjoy being with because these people are your family from now on.

Sara 56:27

And you're gonna spend a lot of time with them, right? If you're writing a book, you're gonna be with those characters a lot.

SPEAKER_06 56:32

And if you write a series, you could be spending decades with these people. So you better, you know, write the write what you want to hang around with spend your time with, yeah.

Sara 56:43

Yeah, that's such a good point.

SPEAKER_06 56:44

Yeah, I wrote two um thrillers, and I did not like living in that world, and I quit doing that. Yeah, I wrote that after the Bow series, and I thought, oh, I'm gonna write thrillers now because everybody's writing thrillers, and it's like I wrote two of them, and I was like, I'm gonna either kill myself or go back to writing something that brings me joy. Yeah, yeah, but that's me. I don't have enough of a shit a shell, I guess. So I don't know. To to to and I, you know, to to protect myself from feeling bad about that. I I want to feel good in in the world that I spend, you know, hours and hours and hours a day, yeah, you know, talking to. Sometimes these are the only pe so-called people that I'm gonna communicate with today.

Sara 57:38

You know, and then but even if you're not writing, you're thinking about it and so yes, working out plot points and dwelling on it. So it's important. I think this has just been fantastic. It's been so fun to talk to you. Um, where can people find out more about you and your books?

SPEAKER_06 57:55

Well, you can visit my website if you care to at margaretlashly.com, but mostly visit me on Facebook, Margaret Lashley-author, and on Amazon. You can get most of my books in ebook, print, paperback, audiobook, and just look up Margaret Lashley that that's like Ashley with an L on the front, L-A-S-H-L-E-Y. So Margaret Lashley and um author on Amazon, and you'll see I've got I don't know, four or five series to take a look at. And so I hope that you will give it a shot.

Sara 58:37

That is perfect.

SPEAKER_06 58:39

All right, yeah. Well, thank you so much.

Jami 58:42

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_06 58:43

Oh, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I wasn't as nervous as I thought I was gonna be.

Sara 58:49

That's good. Yeah, so we'll have all those links in the show notes, and those will be at wish I'd known for writers.com. And if you want to support the podcast, you can go to that same link slash support. So thanks for being here, and we'll see you by next week.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Wish I'd Known Men podcast. We hope this episode inspired you, empowered you, and made you laugh a little bit too. If you loved it, tell your friends about it. And if you feel so inclined, leave us a review. We look forward to being with you again next week.