118: Doireann Garrihy on Becoming Rosie’s Mum

This week on The Baby Tribe, we’re joined by broadcaster and podcaster Doireann Garrihy for an honest and deeply personal conversation about pregnancy, birth, and the early weeks of becoming a parent. Doireann shares her experience of induction on her due date, the moment plans changed in the delivery room, and what it felt like to hear that a C-section was needed. She reflects on the relief of hearing her daughter Rosie’s first cry, the unexpected challenges in recovery, and the surreal first night as a family of three. We also talk about feeding, the pressure new mothers put on themselves, and the “wins and losses” mindset that can quietly take over in those early weeks. Doireann opens up about the emotional weight of breastfeeding struggles, delayed milk, sleep deprivation, and how easy it is to become your own harshest critic. As always, we explore what it means when birth doesn’t go to plan, why emergency doesn’t always mean catastrophe, and how partners can play a vital role in advocacy and support. Proudly sponsored by www.happytummy.ie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

This show is part of the Head Stuff Podcast Network.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to the Baby Tribe. I'm your host, Afi Felkafash, imatologist, pediatrician, and lactation consultant, and my co-host is Anne Deharty, obstetric anesthesiologist. This episode of The Baby Tribe is sponsored by Happytummy.ie and Biogaia Ireland. Biogaia contains the probiotic Lactobacillus Ruteri, the only clinically proven probiotic to help infants with colic. They also have probiotics suitable for the whole family, like Biogaia Prodentis for Oral Health, one of my favorites. Let's get on with the show. Anne can attest to it.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

No, I will not stand over any of those statements.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

You will know her from radio, TV, and two podcasts that are genuinely amongst my favourite. Laughs of Your Life and Dearland and Friends. And if you've listened to either one of those, you'll know she has a rare talent for being very funny while also being very honest. Today she's joining us to talk about pregnancy, birth, and her experience of becoming a parent. So with that said, I am so delighted to welcome Dear and Gary to the baby tribe.

SPEAKER_05 1:22

Oh my goodness! Guys, thank you so much. I was gonna say Anne and a fief, but I need to ask you something.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:28

Have you ever been christened with like a Kimye or Benefer type of name?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

I keep trying to come up with a couple name, but I'm sorry, it's so obvious.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Kai Bosh. What is that? Anne Fief.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Anne Fif, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

Anne Fefe.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40

Surely. On the way in, I was like, I'm going into Anfief.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

Like that has to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

I'm actually starting an Instagram page now with Anfief. Yeah. She is not on social media.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

I occasionally enable Instagram for specific things and then I disable it again, and I have no other social media.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

And half of my DMs is it?

SPEAKER_05 1:59

I wish I had that life sometime.

SPEAKER_04 2:00

But I also have impulse control issues where if I start scrolling, I look up and it's six hours and the cheeks are starving. So Yeah. No one's been dead. Everyone's crying. The dog is peed on the floor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Half of my DMs are women asking Anne questions through me. Will you ask your wife this and this and that? Tell Ann I love it. Oh no, I think it's brilliant. That's not good for your ego at all. Start your own Instagram page. Excellent for the ego.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

I cannot see a downside to the current arrangement. Put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yeah. She's uncancellable.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Amazing.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Right?

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Yeah, but you could get cancelled for the two of you. You definitely could if it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

In fact, I think he makes an effort too. Actually, 100%. Speaking speaking speaking of DMs, actually, dear and I must thank you because I don't know if you remember this, but before I started the podcast, I was very nervous and I messaged you out of the blue because like you know, you just slid into the DMs, slid on in.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

Slid into the DMs. It's not always weird, huh?

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Because I love it.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

It's not always weird. Let's not make it sound weird. I don't know. I've seen some kind of stalker thing going on. Go on.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Because I was really nervous and I loved your podcast. And y what you said to me stuck with me until now. And you said to me, listen to how people are answering your question. Don't be thinking of the next question coming ahead. Did I say that? Yes, you did. Very good advice.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

I mean it seems simple, but it is effective. It is 100%.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Because you know the way when you're starting and you have a list of questions in your head, you ask it. Okay, I got that one out of the way. You're not listening to what the person is saying. And they may have said something profound, and you're like, oh, and what colour is your There you go, you miss it.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

And that's that is the golden rule, I think, to actually actively listen. And so many of the golden moments I've got from the last of your life are because you let it trail off in a certain direction.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Especially when you have, with the last of your life, a set of questions. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

It's very formatted.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

It's very formatted, but you still actually it's each episode is so different. And it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

And I often often the feedback I'll get from a guest afterwards is we'll stop recording and they'll be like, I didn't mean to tell you any of that. And I'm like, that's yes, that's the gold.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Good episode. You said it now. It's fantastic. I know. And it's interesting how your life on social media started because I know I swear to God, I'm not a creep. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 4:11

I feel like it's not a good idea. It's just chronically online. It's not a it's not personal to me.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

No, yes. Yeah, no, but I loved I actually have huge respect and admiration for people that do impressions. Oh really?

SPEAKER_04 4:24

You would love to be able to do impressions.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I just think it's such an incredible skill. Because this like what you need to have in order to be able like you need to know the nuance. You need to be able to like have the intelligence to get the person.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Yes. I think it's to be honest, I think it's it's a it's an ear thing. More so than a visual. It's like I have a good ear. Like I come from a family where my dad's side of the family would be very good storytellers, and my mom's side are very musical. Like my granddad was a concertina player, seven times all Ireland champion. Like never learned to read music, learned everything by ear. So it's just like actually hearing things to a T. So I think that's a massive part of it, and I just have good powers of observation. Like I my mom only told this story the other day to Mark. She was like, from such a young age, Theron was just really observant. She was like, she would be in the back of the car and we'd be driving along, and she'd say, Mom, why is that car smiling? And I'd be like, What? And she'd look, and it would be whatever way the shape of the lights and the red at the front, I would see faces in things all the time where I'd be like, Look at that light, Mom. It's you know, it's it's winky or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

So I think it's yeah, and come to think of it, and like we've been struggling to get Miriam O'Callaghan and Mary Lou McDonald on the pod. So I'm thinking maybe we can't.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

The number one thing don't do is putting impressions on the spot. I'm not asking you to do I'm not asking you to do it. We're just gonna switch off the camera and do no reels and pretend we got them. You're gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Miriam, Miriam, I did I did um I did an all ladies lunch in Mayo last year for a charity, and part of what was gonna happen was Miriam was gonna interview me about stuff, and I was so scared. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Why?

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Because you know she's an icon. She's an icon. And it's prime like the primetime vibes and everything, you know. Oh yeah, she can't be scary, I'd say. She was gonna do an expose on you. Yeah, no, I wasn't putting you on but I'm just saying we'll bring you back in and you can pretend to be. I can be there. And we can do the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

But actually, sorry, just to touch on what we were, I suppose, talking about off mic, childcare and figuring all that out. Miriam with eight kids and her career. Yeah, like what a legend. And she said in a recent interview, she was like childcare and investing in that from the get-go and just putting everything into that is just so important.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

You know, and it is it's investing in people, good people.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

Exactly. And that's the number one bit of advice I've got from people as well who have, you know, working moms, being like, when you're meeting someone and you're trying to figure out if they're the right person, talk to the person. Don't look at the CV and be like, How many years have you done this? You know, it's do you actually get a warm feeling from them?

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Yeah, and it is there's a fit, there's a click component, and then kind of meeting them halfway. Yes and then nearly overinvesting, like not necessarily financially, but like from a human perspective. Totally. You know, and trying to be flexible with them and stuff and building a relationship really. Sure, they become part of the family, don't they? That's what you want, you know. Like some of our channel minders, we would like regard nearly like nieces now, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Except except one of them keeps threatening to write a book. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's not great.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

Sarah, our last channel finder, she goes, I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna expose you, you keep doing the pod. You keep doing the pod, my sales will be huge.

SPEAKER_06 7:35

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

I was like, There'll be nothing left to put in a book that we haven't already told.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

But anyway, Darren, I am here to maintain structure because Anne is chaotic. She mentioned that beforehand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

We were just having a general conversation.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

And Darren kept bringing it back to the beginning of the conversation. I said, This is great, I won't have to do any thought process.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I was producing our conversation. This is a parenting podcast, so obviously we want to talk about your parenting journey. And let's start with pregnancy. How was pregnancy for you?

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Okay, pregnancy for me overall, I feel like I really was blessed. Like I had a lovely experience. The the toughest part for me was probably first trimester, for sure. Um I mean, all the usual things in terms of the secrecy, like I'm a complete open book. I will tell anyone anything, and it's why I'm, I suppose, in radio, and I just don't mind telling every aspect of my life. So the secrecy I found really hard, but also the timing, because I was on Dancing with the Stars, I was just about to start my brand new radio show, 2 FM Drive, and that was gonna be seven days of work a week for I think six weeks. Right. So when I was during your first trimester? During my first trimester. I was so I had nausea for the entire first trimester, and I don't care what anyone says. I I do think vomiting can be can make it easier. Now I don't I haven't experienced it, so there could be people who vomit who are like, shut your mouth. But something about nausea and not getting any relief, there's there's a hell in that.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Yeah, so I I was a professional puker when I was pregnant as well. So tell me. I love what she's now interviewing you. Yeah, yeah. I knew this is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

I was like, don't do this there. This is definitely gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Oh, maybe then we'll just have a chat. But um you become you get really good at knowing what tastes good coming up when the same things are going down to the next up. So things like Darren. Don't eat apples apples with the skins on, because that hurts. Oh gosh. Yeah, it really hurts if it comes back up, it's awful. Um, and then there's certain things that like you'd be like, okay, that's a good food, that's a safe food. Okay. But I only got relief from the vomiting end of it. Sorry for the talking about vomiting. Well, no, but this is what I mean. For about 20 minutes. Oh, sorry, okay, right. Okay. For about 20 minutes and then I'd be back feeling sick again. You'd be back. And then because you get hungry sick.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

And that's different. You get hungry sick.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

It was very tough on me during my say her nausea during pregnancy. I the the the nice I wasn't allowed to eat.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

No, but I used to be retching before I was even fully awake. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:19

Oh god, it was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Oh, it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_05 10:21

Now I used to okay, so so I was nauseous the entire time. So all I could have was say crackers, rice krispies, yeah, sometimes chips. Like sometimes you could have I could have like the salty stuff. But like I was on the drive time show, so I finished work at six, and I was actually a lot worse in the evenings than I ever was in the mornings. Yeah. And I think maybe that could have been trying to hold it together so much when I was in work that then the exhaustion and the nausea just hits you. As soon as I get into the car, I'll just start crying driving home. Yeah. So I remember ringing Mark and it was at its worst, it was probably like eight weeks, and he was like, I rang him, I was like, What are you doing? He was like, I'm cooking. I was like, What are you cooking? He's like, a steak.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

I was like, open every window in the house. I was like, cook the steak, get the pan into the garden.

SPEAKER_05 11:04

And move out.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I feel for Mark. Near the kitchen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

I was like, if I smell even the tiniest bit of it, I I'm gonna die. So sorry, to go back to your question and to take this back to where we were, guys. See, look at her, she's the juicing everything, it's brilliant. Go ahead. The first trimester was the toughest because of just being nauseous, being really, really tired while also trying to throw myself into a brand new job on radio. And do your best and be your 100% self. My 100% self and be on TV, like you know, um but again, sometimes being busy actually helped me a little bit because you just you just have to be you ha like especially for TV, you just have to be on. So I was a distraction because there's a distraction. So I just had to get through it. But there definitely was relief then to actually announce it and to be able to say it. There's a real relief in that because I love talking about it myself a lot.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

And we um we did we had talked about um this before because I always kind of it's so unfair that you have that secrecy bit at a time where you really need people to understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

I mean I was all okay at myself.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

So I don't know, I honestly don't know. And like I understand that people want to keep it private in case obviously that the pregnancy doesn't continue. Yeah. Um because then there's a deeply personal loss that they may not want to be public, especially if you're a public person. Yes. But um, I don't know, I just find the secrecy bit really hard.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

It is hard. I mean, I had my sisters and my mom, of course, and Mark and his family or whatever. But yeah, with the nature of what I do, I couldn't just go on air and go, you know.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

I just when you talk about driving home crying, I was like, I can imagine all these people sitting in traffic going like, Jesus, there's there and Gary balling her eyes out in the next lane.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

So funny you say that, because I would actually wait till I got to the Phoenix Park. I'd be going through town and I'd be stuck in like the Liberties and like up the keys, and I'd be like, just get to the park gate. As soon as I'd have the stretch of the Phoenix Park, I'd bring my mom. I'd be like, Mom, and I'm so lucky she lives so close to me. I'd be like, is there any chance you just like do like, I don't know, mashed potatoes and just bring them over and I'll see if I can eat them. So anyway, I got to sorry to answer your question again. First trimester. I'm telling you. First trimester was definitely the hardest. Second, it was a lovely time of year. It was kind of coming into spring. I felt so much better. I had loads of energy. I just felt like myself. Yeah. I could eat anything. And then that was all fine. And then I suppose third trimester just the usual stuff. I got to about I'd say my back started getting sore around like 33 or 34 weeks. Stopped going to the gym, just getting out of bed was turning. That was hard. Did you kick Mark to roll you?

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Because I used to do that to a fief. No.

SPEAKER_05 13:34

Yeah, that was great. To roll you over?

unknown 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

Oh, I should have.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Especially when your back was sore.

SPEAKER_05 13:39

But he definitely rolled my back. He was very good. He would he would rub my back for sure. But I never actually got into rolling.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

I need to roll over. Like, wake up a fief. Help me, help me, help me.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

It was like so overall, I think I I was really lucky with my pregnancy. Yeah. Very usual.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

And you guys travelled before you had Rosie as well, isn't that right? So we did the baby moon again.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Yeah, we did. We kind of listen, I don't for a second take for granted just how lucky we've been in terms of yeah, we went we travelled for like six weeks. We knew that we weren't we didn't want to delay hoping to start a family. So we got married then in November and we were pregnant in February.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yeah, that was like us. We got married in April and we were pregnant by August. July, August. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Cause you know the way sometimes you're like, Thank God, because I know some people have struggled for so long. We'll try for a year and see how it goes, and then you're like it happens in October. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Yeah. Yeah. I know. You're like, wow. It was like that was nearly a bit of crack. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Meanwhile, Anna's completely incapacitated, crying sitting on the bottom steps, too tired to walk up the stairs. You know? Oh, so romantic.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Can I can I ask you just on the and you spoke about this and maybe we'll touch on it in the in the different phases of the chat, but like advice that you got. Yes. Um a lot of it unsolicited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Did that take you by surprise? No. Okay. Were you expecting it? You kind of do expect that. That people are gonna it's the same. But I mean, I think it's probably women in general. Like whether it's getting engaged or it's getting married, or I mean any stage of life, you can call it unsolicited and sometimes it really is annoying and unsolicited. Other times I just feel like people feel like they know. Like for me, people do feel like they know me. And I feel really lucky with that. Like when I'm out and about, I'm gonna cringe at myself even saying this out loud, but because you touched on it, like when people come over to me, like I often will get people going, Jesus. And then they go, Oh my god, you don't know me. You know, because they feel like they know me.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Like I did that happen to you this morning in the coffee shop. It was really funny. This lady started looking at us. We were ordering coffee and she kept smiling at Anne.

SPEAKER_04 15:46

I was roaring laughing because I was like, I'm not even on something.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

And Anne was Anne was looking at her and she was smiling, and she was like, I'm sorry, you must think I'm nuts, but I know you.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

That's why I'm smiling. Can I just say this never happens to me? Well it did today. It did today.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

It's rarely must listen to the podcast and see your beautiful photo on Spotify. Who knows? Yeah, who knows? So so it is you could call it unsolicited advice, but more often than not, I just see it as people they do feel like they know me in many ways. So they'll send me a message.

SPEAKER_04 16:12

It's well-intentioned.

SPEAKER_05 16:13

It's well, that's the thing. It is well-intentioned. And so I would often whether it's yeah, get engaged, get married, can I just say to you, do this, do that. If I were you, do you know what I did, do you know what I didn't do? And they'll DM me and it's nice, I think. It is nice. Now, obviously, one in a few will be annoying. Far. But for the most part, it's just stalker zone. For the most part, yeah. It's um, I never give advice.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

I never give unsolicited advice. I learned that a long time ago as a man, you know. So it's true.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Yes. This is true. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Um But it's what what what struck me is how in so much detail people study a post that you might put up.

SPEAKER_05 16:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

And you're like, you know, where you might take a picture and then you you would comment about something, somebody that commented on something in the background, oh don't be now and I'm like, it's crazy how people would like kind of And Mark actually wasn't prepared for that in terms of um parenting stuff.

SPEAKER_05 17:11

Like he was doing Instagram stories one day of installing the car seat. And do people have opinions on car seats? And he hadn't listened Rosie wasn't even born yet. He was can open. He went out into the car seat. He was actually like he was being great, he was being proactive, he was going outside to just put it into the car and play around with it. He hadn't finished installing it. Oh my god. But of course, the seat was facing the runways. Yeah, the mess he was like, I I d do I delete this? I don't I was like, oh god, like we've just literally given up on him as a father and then it's gone. But in a way, it was good that he did it before Rosie was even born because he he got a taste of what people can be like. That's true. And again, listen, people feel like they know him. A lot of it was just like, ah, Mark Yowli, just turn the seat around, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

But is it because they've already done it themselves. That's it. You have to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

I want to move on to having Rosie. Yes. And and and and the delivery, because oftentimes black people, mums, um, that may have a certain expectation of how things may go, and then sometimes it doesn't work out. Tell us about Rosie's birth. How was it?

SPEAKER_05 18:11

So we yeah, we had a very usual normal pregnancy, as I said, very lucky. And then uh the decision was made to induce me on my due date. So that was Monday, the 20th of October. So we went in, we did what we were told.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

That was my sister's birthday. Oh, is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:27

There you go. And she was born in the birthday. And my mother's birthday, actually. Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah. Madness, guys.

SPEAKER_05 18:32

Come on. I know.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

She was like, there you go, it's all it's all about us, really.

SPEAKER_05 18:37

Jesus Christ. So we did, so I had no birth plan. My sister's Alva had been induced before, Avian had been induced before, so I kind of and they had had um vaginal deliveries. So we went in at 7am, as you do, went into the waiting room. That was grand. We had our own room, we were delighted with that. And things started moving. I started feeling like pain, but I was like, the pains were getting bad, but they weren't really bad. So I was like, if this is labor, women have been very dramatic since the beginning of time. I was like, Oh, go on, I am so able for this. It cannot be labor. All the time the gym has really paid off. It's brilliant! I was so it wasn't, obviously. So then I was being kind of checked. Yeah. And so I had been I got in for seven, the gel was put in around, I don't know, eight. And they I was being checked, and there was no mention of like centimetres or dilation or anything like that. So I was like, okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Like this is apparently not happening yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 19:39

Then there was a mention, so this is Monday morning. So then there was a mention of now you might not have this baby till Wednesday. And I was like, sorry, what now? There's there's just no way.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

I'm I'm getting pains in the case.

SPEAKER_05 19:50

If I have to push with every ounce of my being, we are not when we're not doing this on Wednesday. So anyway, that was fine. Um the day day kind of went on. I was in pain, but it wasn't, it just wasn't progressing. Three o'clock, another gel, put in insert or whatever. Yeah, that was all fine. Pains were like worse. I like went and had a bath. Sorry, the bath situation's amazing. I went down the corridor and went into this little room, had a bath. We could hook up the phone to Bluetooth. I had my own music. You were laughing. We were living the dream. Marcus putting on the tunes, he was DJ, I was like, Bath is really nice as well when we've got those early pains. I can't recommend enough. It really helps the pain. Yeah, honestly. Nice warm bath with just water, obviously, and you're just sitting there and it's so nice. So that was fine. Had the most amazing midwives who were just so lovely and encouraging, and they were just like, Stop thinking about this, it's a long just think about hour to hour, minute to minute. Stop. You have no idea where you're gonna be. You've no idea. And I very much have no idea. So I was brought back to that my room, and then checked again or whatever. Now I c the timings I think I know, but I definitely am all over the place with them. I'd say it was around maybe half six or seven then uh my waters were broken. Okay. And then the pain was like next to me.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

Then then yeah, things started.

SPEAKER_05 20:59

Then I was like, oh, so this is what the women have been talking about since the beginning of time. And they were like, it's starting to relate, starting to relate. Okay. So that was so I was there for about an hour and a half, gas and air. Yeah. How did you feel? Highly, highly recommend. So it didn't make you sick. It did make me feel sick, but I didn't care because it distracted me from the like I would rather feel a bit sick and lightheaded and be thinking about that than the pain I was in. Yeah, I hear you. So and it kind of is like two bottles of wine.

unknown 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:26

Do you know it's like you're just kind of every now and then I've never actually tried two bottles of wine. Just to clarify, it's what I imagined two full bottles in one dough would be like.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

I did that, didn't even enter my head, actually. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

It's like it's like, yeah, sure, good. It sounds about right. The laugh. We had such a laugh. And actually, Alva Alv had said that to me like the day before. She was like, you know, you're gonna have a a laugh tomorrow. Like it is good crack. Like, obviously, there are the bits of pain, but you're gonna remember the day forevermore. So, like, take it in. And we did, like, you know, when I wasn't in that much pain throughout the day, we were like haven't smelled. And he was going getting us smoothies, and we were just I was on the ball, and yeah, like I have lovely memories.

SPEAKER_06 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:04

So anyway, waters are broken at the uh in pain or whatever. I was probably been an hour and a half there and on the gas and air, and then they were like, Okay, we're gonna bring you down to delivery suite and get you the epidural. I was like, Yes, please.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

So into a wheelchair, wheel down, brought in, put up on the bed. I mean, you leave your dignity at the door, really.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

W yeah. Well, it kind of w we aim to try and maintain some dignity, but there's a certain amount of privacy that's gone. You just kind of go with the flow, like you literally and figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

In every sense. So anyway, I got the ebidural. So so we're in the delivery room, and I was kind of like epidural starts working. I'm like, yes, a ma this is just amazing. Like it felt so much better. Doesn't always work. Now there was a section above my belly button that felt like it wasn't working, so we had to redo something. Yes. So at least we were in that room. So the the main lights were off. The only light that was on was the one like above the little thing where the baby goes. It all felt very calm. Yeah, that's nice. It was really nice, and I was like, yes, so we're now in the room where this is actually gonna happen. There's a cooking. We can chill. Exactly. So the it was myself and Mark, and it was probably like maybe 10 o'clock at this stage, and our midwife and my consultant got home at that stage. That happens, it's like they go and then they're on call. Yes. So we're there, and I anyway, I'm in no pain. We have snacks, we have a laugh, we text on our families. Yes, we're here now, 10 o'clock. Midwife is like, I predict maybe a 4 a.m. baby. So like, try and have a nap so you're good to go for pushing or whatever. So that's fine. I go to sleep on one side and just eyes closed, not really asleep, marks on the ground with his little fleece over him. And then I turned on the other side to nap on the other side, and the midwife is like, Would you just go back on the other side? I'm not really happy with the baby's heart rate when you're on your right.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

So I'm like, okay, grand. So I turn and she's like, Yeah, I'm still I'm just not that happy. Do you mind? I'm gonna make a call. So she rings my consultant and my consultant is like, okay, I'm gonna come in. Um so she comes in and she monitors everything, and we have a chat, and she's like, Okay, I think with my understanding of it was they couldn't really figure out if the baby's heart rate was low and was then peaking, or if it was high and then dropping. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Or is it like yeah, so if if if the baby's heart rate is kind of if you think of a little wave going up and down in terms of traces for heart rates, the question is, is the top part the baseline or is the bottom part the baseline? Yes. So if the top part is the baseline, then you're having recurrent decelerations. Okay. And if the bottom line is the baseline, then you're having recurrent accelerations, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_05 24:48

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

So it just depends on if if and it can be um like there can be ambiguity there. So most of the time it's not ambiguous, it's evident, but occasionally it can be, and what you don't want is to miss decelerations and assume that they're accelerations. Okay, that we're being extra careful.

SPEAKER_05 25:04

There we go. And there had also been blood in my urine at one point during the day.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Sometimes that can mean a little bit of an obstructed labour where the baby's head is leaning on one of the ureters.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

So I think that was part of the decision as well. So basically, um my consultant said, We're gonna give this an hour and see how we go, and it could be a C-section. Okay. So so let's just wait and see. We're gonna monitor things. And she kind of left the room and I was like, okay, grand. And at that stage, Olick, I was like, I suppose it's so different for everyone, but I was like, I was very calm because I was like, whatever we have to do to get the baby out safely.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

It'd be grand. When when I was told that I had to have an emergency C-section with Maggie, I did not register what they were saying whatsoever. They came in and like it was actually somebody that we knew very well came in and said, Look on, I I think you probably need a C-section. And I thought, at some stage In life, in life, we might get there, like and then they all came in wheeling like the wheelchair and the gown and the drink and the getting shit done together. And I was like, This is now? Yeah. And it was like, yeah. So well done on understanding. I couldn't get there, clearly in my brain. Yeah. Fair play.

SPEAKER_05 26:09

But you're then you're shocked into it because obviously.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

This is a sign of such a brilliant professional storyteller because I have all these questions that I'm meant to ask. Oh, she's already got onto that section. Okay, that's what I'm saying. What I was gonna ask was, Darren, what was going through your mind when you heard C-section?

SPEAKER_05 26:29

Again, because she had kind of said an hour, I was like, okay, well, it mightn't be, but if it is, we'll deal with it then. It was very much just we will cross the bridges as we go. So she left, but then she came back in 15 minutes later. So we did not wait an hour by any means. She came back, she's like, okay, we're actually gonna do this now. So that was then like again, I was quite calm and I wasn't panicked. I just it was when the form was in front of me and you to sign the name, and then she's like, So we're gonna hit this button on the wall, don't panic. And it's basically like in a movie, a red button. And then everyone's pages go off. And everyone's pagers go off, and people come in, and then I'm lifted on, and then Mark is taken away and put into the scrubs or whatever. Um, it was just a bit mad, but I was calm and like I was joke, I was joking. When I look back at the name, I was messing with all of them, and I was like saying funny things that I thought were hilarious. Like when I was wheeled into the operation, I was like, this is the drunkest I've felt. You know what? Because the gas and air, because obviously I hadn't drank for nine months. The gas in the air made me feel so lightheaded, and I'm like, this is a party. They're like, what is this girl talking about? And then like when they move, you know, they think to move you from one bed onto the other, and they go one, two, three, and they hoosh you. I was like, geez, I feel like I've been put into an oven. You know, they'd be like, you know, they jump a tray. I was like, it felt like that. I was like, I'm about to be caught. They're all like, we're about to go through a major abdominal surgery. Can you stop me?

SPEAKER_02 27:48

She was like this in her second section. I was just like the obstetricians had to tell her. She was laughing so much during the second section.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

Otherwise, my uterine station was gonna be zigzagged because it kept on moving up in town as I was roaring, laughing.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

She was like, Can you stop laughing, Anne? This was in Toronto. Can you stop laughing, Anne? Because I can't I can't cut you straight. What you made me laughing? The obstetrician was also messing. Like she was like, oh my god, we got a bleeder, we can't stop it.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Oh my god, they said that out loud. Oh yeah, because I was roaring. I I just crying like it was a tiny little thing. Trust me, if it was something serious, they would be like, uh Anne, uh just to let you know, that that was not the case. So we took the kiss out of feedback.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

So it's okay. It's all good. So it's good to have a joke. You can have a laugh as you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

And I mean, I'm sure Ann Anne will pipe in because this is her forte. But like I mean, an emergency doesn't always mean disaster. Do you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

No, it just means we've hit a point that warrants intervention. It doesn't mean that like And it needs to happen promptly.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

And usually the the the pressing the button is a good way of getting everybody organized quickly. Of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

So it's just purely a communication system. Yeah. And you can not degrees.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

Sorry, I'm going to go into your remote. Are there times where they don't necessarily need to hit the button? They'll just bring you down, or do they always hit the button to get everybody?

SPEAKER_04 29:10

It depends on the structure for communication in the hospital. Okay. A lot of hospitals' work is they'll have buttons on the wall that you can hit a button and it'll hit either category one caesarean section that you're calling, which means like this is everybody get their skates on it. This is happening now in the next few minutes. Like as in like the baby could be out in less than ten minutes, if necessary. Right. Um and then category two, which is like, yes, this needs to happen now. We're not going to be waiting longer than a few minutes, we're just going to start motoring along thanks a million. Okay. Um, and then category three is uh kind of it needs to happen in the near future, but it's not emergent, it's more urgent, if you know what I mean. Okay. So that's for like somebody who like at at the earliest convenience. Okay, so there are different categories.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

On your pages, you will get cat one, cat two, two categories. And even for us, the Neonathal team, the baby doctors, will get those bleeps.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

So when you hit a button, it literally uh it sends out multiple simultaneous bleeps to their pages. Um probably two. Probably a two by the sounds of us. Okay. Um which means down sooner rather than one more maximum drama. Cat one! And it's funny because uh when we get a cat one to theatre, we recheck and s kind of have another look and make sure it's still a cat one because sometimes they're the patients that would need to go sleep rather than getting like a spinal or an epidural because just for the sake of speed. Yes. Um it's the quickest way to get to the baby, so it's slightly different.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

When me and Anne are in the room at the same time, that's usually a category one. Is it? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

Yeah, well, and I'm usually very busy. Do you guys wink at each other across the room?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

See, I keep saying hello to her, and she's like, I'm busy.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Because he's there waiting for the baby, and I'm like, I've nothing to do till the baby comes out.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

So I'm like, kinda hey, what you doing? It's like, I'm trying to keep this mother alive, I feel.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

Yeah, I oh I'm just like, hey love, I'm busy.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah. She's very turned out.

SPEAKER_05 31:08

He gets all excited like it.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

I'm just like Because we never see each other unless it's a dire emergency, you know.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

You should count yourself lucky there now. You're excited to be in the room with you. That's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Thank you, dear.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

You have like grown kids. Well, they're not grown, but they're nearly. The day he doesn't wink at you across the room, that's the day that we help.

SPEAKER_06 31:26

Yeah. I don't know about that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

But maybe if you stop doing it, I'd go over Tim and it'd be like, hey, after the pod, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

I'll tell you about the time I I got her flowers on Valentine's Day to work, never again.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Oh god. Because I'm gonna say this again. Performative. I'm yes. It is if you give somebody flowers in private for them. You give somebody flowers in public for you.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

You're worse than the guy in the Olympics trying to get the girl back. Red flag. I love you for saying that.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

I love you for saying that.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

I thought I was Yeah, I'm sorry, I backfired. Back to your story, yes. Yeah, so we're taking a quick break to thank happytummy.ie, the official distributor of Biogaia Probiotics, for supporting the baby tribe.

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SPEAKER_02 32:39

Visit happytummy.ie to learn more and give your crew the gift of a happy tummy and a healthy smile. Hey there, BabyTribe listeners. Did you know that we've got some amazing bonus material just for you? Baby Tribe Shorts is here. Quick evidence-based breakdown of all things science when it comes to Mom and Baby. You can find it as part of the Headstuff Podcast Network. You can subscribe to Headstuff Plus for as little as 5 euro a month. We'll give you quick evidence-based takes on science behind maternal and infant health.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

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SPEAKER_05 33:26

So then we're wheeled down, and Mark's in his scrubs or whatever, I'm brought in, and I feel like I'm boring you guys telling you this because you know how this all works. No.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

No, but everybody will like everybody wants to just relate and understand the sort of point of the pause.

SPEAKER_05 33:39

So they start to prep me or whatever, and they obviously so I had the epidural. So they then need to top that up.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Yeah, so we change the volume and the concentration. Okay. So you get a higher volume, and again, if we give the medicine and then wait for that little bit to work, you'll be waiting fifteen minutes. And then if we need to give you more, that's another 15 minutes or something. So we probably give it a little bit quicker. Okay. And we also give a higher concentration. So you go from a a pain-relieving concentration to a surgical concentration, which is much denser.

SPEAKER_05 34:12

I loved the very old school method of the ice cube. Yeah. I just think that's so cool that like they it's so old school they still do it. So for anyone who doesn't know, it's to make sure that it's coming up higher, they use an ice cube along your side to see if you can still feel the cold, and if you can, then it needs to come up higher, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:26

Exactly. So it needs to be from kind of mid-chest level at least downwards. Now it's relatively high. So like your incision is down at the bottom of your tummy, right? And if you're having hip surgery, it's not too far from that zone. But yet for a c-section, we have to bring it up to kind of mid-boob level at least, because the lining of the abdominal wall is supplied by nerves that come off much higher. Okay. So we have to make sure you're covering. But for C-section, we try and do that for a variety of reasons, including moments like to see their babies. Um but so it comes up much higher than it would normally. Yeah. Um and then we need to do that relatively quickly.

SPEAKER_05 35:14

Yes. So that was done. And anyway, they were then like, listen, when Mark comes into the room and sits down and holds your hand, that's when you know. Because you can feel the tugging, you feel they're doing something. Yeah. When he comes in and holds your hands.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Yes, doing the washing up in your tummy.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

On your tummy. They're like, when he actually comes in and holds your hand, that's when you know we're actually about to take the baby out. So they grand. So Mark comes in, holds my hand. And he again was like relatively calm, looked fantastic in the scrubs.

SPEAKER_04 35:39

Minimum of five selfies, I always say, has to be taken. And I guarantee you there's more taken than that.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

So it's funny when when you posted the picture of you and Mark and Rosie, Anne was like, Oh, she had a section. Because the minute you see the dad in the movie scrubs, that's when you know that's when you know the giveaway.

SPEAKER_05 35:55

And loads of people DM me and said that they're like, Oh, you must have had a section, oh my god, oh my god. So, um anyway, he sat down, held my hand, and then like I mean, I again time-wise, I don't know. It probably felt like what, five minutes, if even. Yeah, it's it's quick.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

It is especially for a first section, it's uh most of the time it's quite quick to get to baby. Yeah, okay. And then it's it's the longer time kind of making sure everything's all back in its place again. Yes. Um but you don't mind so much because you have a baby.

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Oh my god, and I'll never forget it, obviously. Like, I mean, like I could hear I she gave a little cry. Brilliant. And then Jen, my consultant, was like, and nothing wrong with her. And nothing wrong with her. And that will just stay with me forever. Just the relief. The relief. I know. She's like, she just would, she just wouldn't budge, she wouldn't bud. So she and like her head was in the shape of like she was she just wouldn't, it wouldn't progress. I don't know how I don't know what the vocabulary is. It's tough to descend in. Yes. Yeah. So then they obviously drop the blue thing. Yeah. And I we could see her. You could see her. So obviously the most amazing moment ever. But then they obviously take her off to be checked, and I'm like emotional, whatever. And then they brought her over and they put her on my chest, and my hands are like shaking. I'm like, oh my god, oh my god. And then I realize I couldn't swallow.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

And you could still move your hands.

SPEAKER_05 37:06

I could still move my hands.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Sometimes like uh if it's a it's an epidural. So most of the time what happens is you get blocked to kind of top of your boobs. Yeah, okay. Arms power stays good, all of that kind of stuff stays good, voice is still there, all of that is still strong, breathing and all of that, because that comes off very high. But normally the the kind of uh worrying times would be is if your hand if your arms start to get very heavy or you feel like your voice is getting weak, that's that's when we'd kind of say, Okay, now we need to have start having a conversation about whether or not we need to mind you from going to sleep. If the epidural medicine has gone very high.

SPEAKER_06 37:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

But most of the time with swallowing, I've seen it a couple of times, not very frequently. Okay. Um so you're unfortunately you're special. Um you probably still had the power to swallow, but just didn't have the sensation to the same degree. Okay. Because like you were obviously still swallowing to some degree.

SPEAKER_05 38:04

It was just the weirdest feeling. I I was truly trying. It was like it's the most natural thing. It's like breathing, and I it just wouldn't happen. So so they so Mark had Rosie then outside. He was obviously in this rose with her in his arms. He was like, It was like the beginning of a movie. I was like, with this newborn baby, and you're in there. So that was really tough. So I was wheeled into like a recovery room or whatever, and I was able to sit up and I had a like a cup of water in my hand, and they I basically was kind of told, until you can actually swallow or you know, drink that small cup of water, we won't bring her into you to make sure that you're okay. The airway. Yes. Okay. So that was probably.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

That must have been so tough.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

Do you know it was and it wasn't again like she was okay. So I didn't really care about myself as well as as I don't want to say I'm like a martyr, but I just was like, okay, well, there's nothing massive to worry about here. It's gonna go away. I'm gonna be able to swallow again. She's with Mark, she's safe, she's been brought into the world safely. And I I I maybe if it was my second baby, it would be harder because I know what maybe it should have been like or it could have been like. But the fact that it was my first experience, yeah, I kind of was like, I was okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

But I think I think you said something that sort of stuck with me at the beginning of the conversation is that you had no plans or expectations. There you go. And I think that is sometimes better than having an expectation of something that doesn't materialize. And then you feel guilty, hard done by feel hard done by. Um and I'm not saying that what you went through isn't something to sort of talk about and and and think about. But I think the fact that you I wasn't tied to anything.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Is sometimes a good thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:38

Um because she was healthy and safe, I kind of was like, well, that was all about. And she's with Mark and she'll be in when she's in. Yeah. But I but even thinking about that now, I do feel kind of sad. Like at the time I didn't. Yeah. Now I'm like, God, that is kind of sad that I didn't have the experience of her on my chest, skin to skin, yeah, you know, for a long time. But I I don't and I know that there are amazing services for birth reflection, and maybe eventually I would want that or need that. But for now, I just don't feel like I do because I'm so okay with the fact that she's okay, you know, and was okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

She's fabulous. And I remember listening to I can't remember which podcast of yours it was, and somebody gave you advice about when the first time the three of you are together.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

Craig Doyle, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Yes, before you post anything or do anything or call anybody, just savour that moment. And I don't know why that stuck in my head. It's because I think as a society, we sometimes forget about savouring this kind of unique sacred moment. Sacred. Can you tell us how was that moment when the three of you kind of got back together first?

SPEAKER_05 40:47

That was amazing. Oh, I'm gonna get emotional. That was obviously amazing. Like that's yeah, like I I think because I I am so glad that as we mentioned, I wasn't tied to anything because it all was so new. I I had never experienced birth. So and that sounds like such an obvious thing to say because it was my first baby, but it was a massive thing that I wasn't ready for, but I didn't know any different. So when Mark came in, then he had her in his arms, which was incredible. Because really, the first person I saw holding her was him. Because when she was handed to me in the theatre, it was kind of almost over the shoulder type thing. So for him to walk in and I was finally okay, and to hand her to me, and and for it to be to be just us was just and we did take the time. Like, I mean, my family didn't know I had a C-section until probably an hour and a half after I'd had it.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Because a pure moment, really.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

Totally, totally, and uh yeah, it was it was just incredible, and she was sh perfect in my eyes, of course.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

But uh she's gorgeous, I can tell you that much. But I always thought I think that that I always used to say it's kind of it's nearly like heroin, yeah. That moment where you're tucked up under your chin. Oh my god, you can't explain. It's just this microcosm of a world. Um and I think that that's what people really try and protect in terms of their experience. So I'm sorry it was a little bit delayed for you. And you know what I mean? That's it, that's the hard part, I think, for a lot of women.

SPEAKER_05 42:12

But actually, uh the I think the most gorgeous memory of that night, because she was born at 12 38 a.m. Um it it was really lovely that we we had had that whole day of just like it was such a long day. She finally was here safe. I was okay. In the I suppose in the dark of night, like being wheeled up, just Mark and I, and because it had been really tough, they gave Mark the toast as well. And we had this that was gorgeous, like when we were in our own room, yeah, and it was probably two or three a.m. at that stage, and it was just the three of us. And Mark was obviously gonna go home then and sleep, but before he did, like just sitting there being like, What the heck? Fuck in the most amazing way. And then there were three, and then there were three, and and uh and that yeah, it's and she was like tucked up in the co-sleeper thing.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

The little and the little swaddle, the little swaddle, and and just like I mean, I don't want to speak for Mark because he's not here, but as a dad, I think sometimes we joke, um, oh, the dad's gonna go home and get a rest that first night. But I remember myself, like I was so stressed about leaving Anne and Maggie. Um, you know, the first time I was delighted when Faisal was born. I was like, great, for the second child, it's a different story altogether. I'm off, look. Yeah, I'm off, see ya. But you were going home to mind Maggie. Yeah. But the first one, you actually feel that I want to be there. I don't want to go home. And I was stressed and I couldn't sleep. Oh, yeah. There's no coming down from the high. Yeah. I remember we had we had we at that stage, I think we were planning on going to Canada and we were kind of selling I sold my car and I bought this old banger um to last us for the few months before we would go to Canada. Yeah. And I remember trying to get into the car and the door handle came came out in my hand. And I was trying to get to to Hollow Street.

SPEAKER_05 43:56

Oh my god, like a movie.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

I had to get in I had to get in from the passenger seat and go across and sit down. And so I drive in and I'm full of drama. And I've had the worst morning ever.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

Meanwhile I'm there lying about just pressing my PCA, going, Jesus Christ the hair.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Go away. She was like like I got like you know, I I did not read the room that morning. I have to admit.

SPEAKER_05 44:19

She did bring jewellery though, which helped. Ah, that always helps. Always helps. Mark brought a balloon and a teddy the next morning. That was nice. Yeah, he didn't sleep. He went home and tried to sleep. And he was actually, he was so I I feel very lucky. Like he's very good in those situations. He's very good.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

He sounds like a very cool head.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

He is. And even just like I was obviously there, I was in hospital for four nights, and he would go home in the evening, but he was there every morning at eight and he was with me till he had to go home, you know, and I was the memories of that he'd just are fast.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Those those moments, those those early moments, um before I guess it's almost like a not a limbo, but like, you know, you've had the baby, you haven't gone home yet, you're in the hospital and you're preparing for what lies ahead and you're being minded by midwife, so you almost haven't been alone and been tested as a parent just yet. And I think those those times can be special in their own way as well.

SPEAKER_05 45:12

I mean they're it's equal, I mean it's equal parts terrifying, yeah, amazing, like you know, emotional, brilliant. Like it's it's everything. Yeah, it is like the hardest and greatest thing ever.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

Absolutely. The stakes are huge, yeah, yeah, but you're so incredibly invested. Oh, everybody's all in luck. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Can I ask you then about the early days of becoming a parent, looking after Rosie, recovering, all of that happening. How how did that feel, the first few kind of weeks of being a parent?

SPEAKER_05 45:44

First few weeks in many ways, I mean, she's 17 weeks today.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

And I do think as hard as the first few weeks are for many reasons, in terms of sleep, feeding, not having a clue what you're at, in many ways they can be easier, I think, than maybe now. Because I do think, even with the time of year she was born, so she was born on the 21st of October, like realistically, Christmas starts at the end of October. I think the vibe, the balls of people being around, you have plans, you're going to see people, people are calling in. That was a lovely time her first couple of weeks, because I had family stuff in the diary, so there's always someone there to help, and there's people dropping in coffees, and you know, that the sleep was hard and the nights were hard. The feeding I found. I I really want to be really honest about this because I think like I I said I I handed myself over, I had no birth plan when it came to birth. I kind of had the same approach to feeding, and I wish I hadn't, because it's a lot harder than I ever could have anticipated. I kind of went, breastfeeding, the most natural thing in the world. She'll be on this boob and she'll be on this boob, and we'll be flying around, and I'll be whipping out a boob in a car park. Like amazing. I I really thought naively it was gonna be easy, and I I had the same approach to that as I did to birth. And I kind of wish I had I had been more prepared because I nothing could have prepared me for how tough it was gonna be. And actually, even with the C section, like I hadn't realized, and like you'll be able to clarify this. If you have a C-section, your milk is slower to come in.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

It can be, it can, especially if you have if you don't go through the process of labor fully. It can potentially delay the second stage of lactation coming in, so you've got the colosterum for a bit longer, yes, and then baby may get a bit hungrier, you know, coming towards it. Because normally milk comes in 48, 72 hours. Yeah. But sometimes with a C-section, it can be day four. It can be a little bit delayed. Okay, um, and it can be tough.

SPEAKER_05 47:43

Yeah. Yeah, and and so so she latched on one side perfectly, and the other side she continued to struggle. They always have a favorite position. Oh my god, and I really like I just and I suppose you're exhausted and emotional anyway. So you just start beating yourself up over the smallest things. Yeah. Like I feel like in the first couple of weeks, when you have a win, you're like, okay, yeah, that's a win, but you're what of it? You don't really pat yourself on the back. And I mean that with anything, with them going down for a nap in a nice way, or them feeding in a nice way, or whatever. When you have a loss, you feel like I just was in this mode. I'm sorry, I shouldn't speak for everyone, I should speak for my own experience. I was just in this mode of like, if I had what I perceive to be a loss, I would just be like, How did I get that wrong? Like it's this is supposed to be natural for me. How did I get that wrong?

SPEAKER_02 48:28

And I think a problem is the fact that we call it natural. Yes. And the fact that I mean, I think I don't know who we are, but healthcare providers, society, whatever, we say how great breastfeeding is, we label it as natural, we label it as um something that is supposed to happen. And then when you are faced with the reality that it is tough, it's a learning process for mum and baby.

SPEAKER_05 48:51

And baby. You're getting to know each other.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

You're getting to know each other. You need a lot of support, and sometimes that is not forthcoming for a variety of reasons. Yeah. Then mom ends up feeling like a failure. I know, I know. And it's it's so tough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

I think as well, like as a society, we're great at having all of the people there for the birth for the delivery kind of components. And then you go home and it's just like kind of and you've got loads of people coming over, obviously with little bits of like help our coffees and blah blah blah blah blah. But in terms of the breastfeeding support and stuff like that, we just we just don't have enough.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

But also sometimes sometimes, and we've talked about this on the pod before, giving formula is vilified, and then you feel that you've done something wrong, that you're almost harming your child for giving them formula. It's awful. And it's awful. And you may not think it out loud, but it is subliminal in the back of your phone. Oh absolutely, totally.

SPEAKER_05 49:44

Um so yeah, like I I you know, the public health nurse comes out a couple of days after you go home.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

So for me, it was like I cried through the entire visit.

SPEAKER_05 49:52

This is what I'm saying. Like hey, you're so hard on yourself. So I had had I got home on the Friday, but it was the it was the October bank holiday weekend, so she wasn't coming. She actually couldn't come until the Wednesday. Yeah. So it was a good few days ago. That's a long time.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

That's a long time. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 50:04

So I had that. So she wasn't latching well on the left. So I was pumping Mark was straight to Blanche to get a pump as soon as we got home from the hospital. Awesome. Got a pump. I was she was feeding on the right, pumping on the left. The odd time she'd feed on the left, more often than not, she wouldn't. I'd get stressed, she'd get stressed. And then I just had this, and just to go back to like you know, the wins and the lot, like everything was just either a massive deal. Like I was like, in my head, I was like, if she's not back, like when I think back on it now, even I'm like, how why was I so hard? If she's not back to her birth weight by the time that public health nurse gets here on Wednesday, I am gonna be destroyed. Like I just had I was putting so much pressure on myself, and she actually happened to be at her birth, and then my day was made. And I think back And that was very quick, by the way. It was, but it's do you know why it was? I was pumping non-stop, and I was like, all this pressure, feeding on the right, pumping on the left, like it's it was very hard. It's a lot, and I'm up in the middle of the night, sterilizing stuff, and like I know, I know, it is I know, I hear you.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Yeah, but as well, all of those kind of really in like uh black and white thinking and stuff like that. That is just precisely it's just hormone-driven stuff going on, like psychologically, you're so vulnerable. Yeah, and that's so when you need the village, and totally, you know, totally it's it's it's so hard to find it. Even like you can have the best family in the world. And I do, but and 100%, and it's it's just it's really hard to to not fall kind of prey to that black and white thing. Big time. And I mean I definitely did as well. Yes, and like I definitely did.

SPEAKER_05 51:31

Like because I had a C section, obviously, and because it was an emergency and you can't drive, that I that really affected me. Like the lack of freedom kind of affected me. I had all these visions of it's gonna be November, we'll go up to Blanche, the decorations will be open, people will be admiring her and I'll be going around. Couldn't do that. I didn't obviously I could go to Blanche if I got a lift, but I couldn't drive myself. Couldn't drive myself for coffees, whatever. And there was one day Mark was going in to record his podcast, and I was like, it was gorgeous blue sky winter day. I was like, we'll do a walk. I'm allowed to do a walk, I'm allowed to do this, I'll get her into the boogie. Realised he had the buggy in the boot and he was gone for like five hours.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

And again, but meltdown territory.

SPEAKER_05 52:06

I was like texting him being like, How could you have done this to me? Now I think back, I'm like, Darren, would you calm down? No, but at the time it does feel like all or nothing at the time.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

But you know so many hormone stuff going on as well. We didn't leave the house for I think Maggie was eleven days old the first day I met I left the house. Yeah. Um and we left the house. Oh, this is so funny.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

But did the what did the old lady tell you? Oh no, that was different.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

That was when I was getting her vaccine because like she was sallow and he you can't leave her out in the sun. But um like I'd been suntanning my child.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

Oh her dad is Arab.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

Did you say I did? Micro. I swear to God. Well, no, the first time we left the house with Maggie. Do you remember we were driving back and somebody collapsed in the street?

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

I remember I was do you know what? This is an honest truth, right? We were driving into the housing estate where we live, and this person just literally lost consciousness consciousness as they were walking and just fell forward, smash head injury, right? Can I be honest? Go on. I couldn't have been happier. Why? Something else to think about. It was something I could do. Yes. It was something I was capable of doing because I felt so the last ten days had been so hard. So hard.

SPEAKER_05 53:26

So hard.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

Where nobody like I went from being trained to do a job that I love doing to being at home untrained to look after this child who was I absolutely adored, but I was so numb and so tired I couldn't feel it.

SPEAKER_05 53:39

It's so hard. It is so hard.

SPEAKER_04 53:44

I wasn't able to do what I wanted to do. So it was great. Your man collapsed, and I said, Brilliant, I can fix this. And I said, A thief, you hold the baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

I was like, I've got Maggie. I've got Maggie. I'm useless with adults. Like I'm useless with adults.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Unless you're like calling an ambulance over and I looked after the person who'd collapsed on the middle of the road. Yes, I know this. It gave me such I hope that person is still fine to this day. I'm sure they're great, thriving. It gave me such a boost person. I know, isn't it mental?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Be able to do something. But that's what I mean about the competent at something.

SPEAKER_05 54:19

Like the wins and the losses, and like the I that's the only way I could describe it to Mark, and I was kind of days I'd be emotional and be like this, I'm finding this really hard. Like, well, like he'd be like, what does it feel like? I'm like, I could do something and it's a great thing. And I'm like, ah yeah, like, but you're your mom, like, yeah, don't think that's a win.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

Surely, yeah. You know Surely you shouldn't be patting yourself on the back for the bigger. For doing the the bare minimum.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah, but you be you become you become obsessed about the most mundane things. Like, oh my god, she hasn't pooed in 24 hours.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

With a few of those, yes, so what is we didn't fight until we had Maggie, and then we literally argued so much because ever like we just felt like everything was like so super important and the the the ability to triage those concerns went away for a while because we were so tired.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

You're so tired. That's the thing. The lack of sleep is such a massive driver of the paranoia.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

What I actually really admired is once you were able to, you uh made her part of your life.

SPEAKER_06 55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

You brought her with you. You um uh you know, you were going out and you're going to kinda on trips and bringing her with you. And me and Anna were talking about it's brilliant for parents to see that that is actually possible. Because sometimes you We were really bad at that.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

Were you okay?

SPEAKER_05 55:36

We were so bad at that.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:38

I would say I feel like we would have been like that anyway, but I do think the C section probably drove me on further to be like, once I'm over this kind of six-week toughness of this, I really want to make an active effort to get out and about with it. Because I uh you know, my plans have been scuppered about driving to Blanche, my obsession with Blanche. But even just going to a shop because a shopping centre is brilliant when you have a baby because you can get your steps in and get the boogie going, yeah. No matter the weather. Yeah. So I had all these things in my head. And often they have breastfeeding rooms and rooms and all that kind of stuff. So you're sort of huge. You're under a roof and you're safe and whatever, and you can browse. But I just I only shop for her now. It's so bad. I go up to get myself a pair of jeans and I come home with 17 vests for her. I'm like, I know.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

It's just so but hey, jeans shopping is hard at the best of times to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 56:22

It's actually traumatizing for them. I can't be dealing. I'm like leggings all the way. You're and you're right.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

Yeah, you're in the public um kind of eye, and I wanted to ask about how how did you think about deciding what to share and what what not to share? Because I know a lot of it is personal, but also it's lovely to share some some aspects of motherhood and parenthood, and how does that sort of work?

SPEAKER_05 56:44

I kind of take it day by day. Like we like I shared a lot of my pregnancy. Yeah. I suppose I'm always conscious as well, uh where I don't want to sound like I like to share my reality, yeah, and I but I'm also conscious not to make it seem like I know exactly what I'm talking about. So I very much um clear that I'm talking about my own experience. I'm not trying to influence anyone anyway. So I kind of just share, I just take it day by day. I try not to overthink it. It's the same with everything personal, I think. Whether it's, you know, before I ever was pregnant, I kind of just go, Yeah, I think that's within that's it's not tone, don't think it's tone-deaf. I don't think it's like you do have to be conscious of what other people, and as I suppose my demographic as well, the people that follow me, I'm hyper aware that there are people who don't care about motherhood or But I'd say a lot of your followers kind of grew up with you and became mothers as as as you went along.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

And I remember you saying you were surprised at how interested people were in in your experience and asking you questions and asking for advice and all of that. Because and I remember joking with you saying, Don't you dare make your podcast parenting podcast that we have enough competition? We have enough competition in the charts. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 57:56

We won't even be there anymore.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

I know I'm I'm mad enough at Carl Mullen, but that's a different story altogether. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:04

Oh yeah, Carl is in your space.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

Oh yeah, I do think we have you on Darren Mullen. The only reason that you're on the pub is so that we become number one again. Sorry, did I say that out loud?

SPEAKER_01 58:19

No, he's competitive, it's good. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

But it's interesting because, like you said, you have to also then realize that what works for you might work for somebody else.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

That's it but no, you're right, you're right. I mean, the amount of people who um, you know, I'll I'll get messages from someone being like, I've followed you since you were on Snapchat, you know, through it all, and I've actually happened to be pregnant around the same time as you. It's lovely to see what you're at and to and I I've chatted to loads of people, and even people who had babies around the same time as Rosie, I'll be messaging them, they'll be like, by any chance is your baby doing this yet? And I'll be like, They are, oh my god, you know, yeah. To be able to interact in that way is is great. And uh and I'm so lucky, I mean, for the most part, like 99.9% of people are just so lovely on social media for me. It's a positive experience.

SPEAKER_02 58:57

Yeah, and and like you well, Rosie has already become an influencer because after you had Rosie, there's been a slew of Rosies. What? In the Rotunda. No! And it's funny, sometimes I asked me if you're sometimes sometimes I ask, oh, is it because of Darren? And sometimes this like a lot of times they say yes, but one of them got real thick.

SPEAKER_01 59:15

No, she stole my name.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

I'm always wanting a Rosie. Sorry. Sorry. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:27

I do, we do love it. I love it. Rosie by name and Rosie by Name too.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Are you seeing her personality come out now?

SPEAKER_05 59:34

Like massively. Yeah. She's a messer, isn't she? She is a complete I mean, I'm not surprised. Yeah, parents. She didn't make it off the stove. She did not. No. So she loves the crack. Like she's the the legs are got like when she sees, like when Mar comes into the room, the legs just starts kicking out.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

I swear.

SPEAKER_05 59:51

It's just oh the going back to work part piece is is really hard at the moment because I'm in that mode of trying to get everything in place so that it can be as easy as possible. I have days where I'm like, How the hell am I gonna do this? How am I gonna leave her? I like even the term leave her just sounds so dramatic, but it does feel like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:11

It's just so nice sometimes to be at work when you have a little baby and you actually do something, you're like, Yeah, this is something I'm trained for, this is something I can do well for me. Yeah, yeah. And then you kind of feel bad for feeling that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

So, Darren, if you have a message for parents that, you know, maybe embarking on pregnancy or are pregnant now or have a newborn baby, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:34

I mean, I think I'm glad, I know I've said it a few times, that I didn't have a plan. And maybe that's not good advice. Maybe you should have some sort of a plan. But I think like trusting the people who are looking after you is really important. Yeah. Um, that I I can't fault how I was looked after by like at all. The one thing I would say is prepare for the feeding. I I really just wasn't ready. And I suppose because I I'm surrounded by people who had had gone fairly well for. And it's not that it went badly for me. I just wasn't prepared for the latch being so hard and how much it was more so how much I would beat myself up for that rather than the actual physical feeding. It's just the emotional attachment I had to just how important that is to be able to do it fluidly, part of the fun. And as well, when you're in the hospital, ask for help. Yeah, ask questions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:29

The other thing I take from your story is Mark was a really good advocate for you. And he's very much a team player and you'd kind of a team approach. 100%. And I'm and I think that that's a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

Yeah, I'm I feel blessed. I really do. I'm really lucky. And like at one point, like day two in the hospital, my consult, I actually haven't named her Jen, Jen Donnelly, amazing. That's really brilliant from start to finish. She's been on the pod. Yes, I know. I listened. So uh she came in and uh to check on me and my um my wound or whatever, and she's like, How are you feeling? I was like, I'm so sorry, but like my husband keeps making me laugh, yeah. And I feel like the wound is gonna open. I was like, I can't stop laughing. Well, and I was I just thought it was such a good thing. She was like, she was laughing because she was like, No one's really ever said this. She was like, actually physically hold it in. I was like, thank you, because I feel like it's gonna open because I I am just crying laughing the entire time. And I mean that's such that's such a lovely thing, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

It's absolutely and we feel bad for complaining about you all the time.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:29

No, sorry, he's not there other times, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

But I was gonna say, don't be afraid of advocating for your partner. Anything you want to say that we didn't ask you before we finish up?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:39

Oh god. Well, first of all, thank you for your service. I mean, this podcast is so little. I roared laugh, and then the thing is just like, yay! We're so different. We're so different. We're like, what the out of it? No, it is an amazing guys. Thank you. Honestly, it's it's such it's such an informative podcast. And I have had many walks with the boogie where I've learned so much and uh and you're brilliant. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

And we just want to say thank you for trusting us with your story, honestly.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:07

It's um No, it means a lot. It really does. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:10

We actually feel very privileged to be honest. Not at all. No, it's and and this is the kind of thing that's so honest. Like there's no uh Yeah, but I totally agree. No, I totally agree. Women need to point out what we do and what we achieve and how much we go through in in kind of fulfilling roles that people feel is just a natural thing. It's not, it's an awful lot of hard work. It is, yeah, it is, but it's worth it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Well, Darren, yeah. Darren, thank you for coming on the baby tribe.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:38

Thank you, guys! Thank you, Unfeed.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

Yes, yes, The Baby Tribe is proudly sponsored by happytummy.ie, the exclusive distributor of Bayagaya Probiotics, providing support for gut and oral health for the whole family.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

This show is part of the Headstuff Podcast Network, a hub for the creative and the curious. Shows are produced in association with Headstuff and the Podcast Studios Dublin. Find out more or become a member at Headstuff Podcasts.com.