Alaska Uncovered Podcast

Winging it on a road trip to Alaska with three teenagers with Bethany Graham (Traveler Stories Series)

• Episode 143

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 Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with me, your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, my occasional co-host and full-time husband, Jay, and I bring you accurate, helpful, and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and life in Alaska.

Hey everyone. Before we jump into today's episode, just wanted to remind you about the Alaska Uncovered Planning Club on Patreon. It has been so fun so far to answer everybody's questions about. All kinds of things related to Alaska Travel, and I'd love to have you there. It's $9 a month. You can cancel anytime you want, and it's on patreon@patreon.com slash Alaska uncovered.

See you over there and enjoy the show.

My guest today is Bethany Graham. And Bethany is here to share her story of traveling with three of her four children and her husband.

In a pickup truck and a 30 foot travel trailer from Kansas to Alaska and back, and they did a little bit of working on the road. And so we're just gonna talk about that whole trip today. Bethany, thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you, Jennie. It's, it's fun. Yeah, it's really fun to have you. So I, I, last week's episode was about Snug Harbor and in that episode I mentioned, um, that I met you there and that you were someone who listened to the podcast.

And that was just so fun because Mariah didn't tell me that you were gonna be there. And I got off the plane and I was like, what is going on? Yeah, it was crazy. So I knew you were flying in. On the flight.

We were leaving it on and she was like, I didn't quite know how things worked. And it's so, it's such a fast turnaround. Yeah. And she's like, there'll only be a couple minutes, but I, I, you, you need to meet Jennie. You'll love her. I love her. It will be great. So I knew once I got to Snug Harbor that you would be there.

But yeah, it was, it was just crazy. And I, I was very emotional. I, I, yes, it was awesome. I did not want to leave. I loved Snug Harbor. Mm-hmm. Loved Mariah, loved the whole family, the whole experience and yeah. It was really fun to like meet you in person and all of that.

And I'm so glad that you were game to come and share about your trip with everybody. Yes, yes. Yeah. So let's start, Bethany with some basics. Who, how old are your kids when you took this trip? So you have four kids, but one of them. Is grown and didn't come with you, right? That is correct, yep. Okay. Four kids.

Um, the oldest is 21. Okay. And he stayed home, had an internship, had two adults, um, oh, adulting. I know. Adulting such a drag. And then the three that went with us are, um, 1915 and 13. So that's girl, girl, boy. So, okay. 19, 15, and 13. Cool. Yes. And, um, tell, well, I guess I kind of gave it away. I said that you live in Kansas, so Yes, yes, yes.

You live in Kansas. Um, so can you tell everyone a little bit just about why you decided to take this particular trip at this? Time because you were gone for like nine weeks, right? From home. Yep. Yes. Yeah. So that's a big, a big commitment. So why did you do it? Um, well, a couple reasons. We had actually hoped to go last year when all of our kids could have gone.

Um, but due to, there were some medical issues beyond our control for people we were close to, and we just, we didn't feel like we could get that far away. Um, yep. But our oldest, when he, the summer, we went on a big road trip the summer before he graduated and he got to pick the destination and we did a big west coast road trip everywhere he wanted to go.

So then our daughter, when she graduated, we let her pick. She picked, she's go big or go home. Yes, she picked, I love mask. That's awesome. And so we had to pause it for a year, but then we made it happen in this past summer. So yeah. And so how did you decide to drive, because this is so, one reason I wanted to talk to you is that like there's, and of course you need a lot of time to drive and you were able to make that work, right, of course.

But I'm curious about how you made that. Decision to do that instead of flying there with everyone. Flying was never on the radar. Okay. Like, it just, it just never was. We've taken a lot of big road trips mm-hmm. As a family. Yeah. Um, a lot. And just when you take five people times all the flights. Yeah.

And then we would have to, like, obviously when you have a camper, you're paying for campsites, fuel, et cetera. , But. You take five people and then you have all the hotels. We'd have to rent a car. Yeah. Just all of that side of it, it, you know, it might end up costing the same, we don't know. Yeah.

But in our minds it seems more,, financially doable. Yeah. To, to just pack up and hit the road in the, in the truck with the camper and go. Totally. Especially if you already have the truck in the camper. If you're already, and you're already used to traveling that way, I think. I think it's awesome. I love that you undertook this trip.

So I know obviously you didn't stay at the camper at Snug Harbor 'cause you have to fly there on a small plane. Were there any other places where you didn't stay in the camper or did you otherwise stay in the camper the whole time? Otherwise we were in the camper every single night. I love that. And how, how was that like, looking back on it now, are you like that was awesome, or were there things you'd do differently in the future?

Nope. It was perfect. Like we had, we, like I said, we've been other places. We did six weeks in, um, the up of Michigan a few summers ago. Mm-hmm. We did like eight weeks in. The Northeast, summer of 2024. So we, we knew what we were getting into. Yeah. Yeah. And one other thing just about those logistics before we talk more specifically about Alaska.

So as I understand it, one of the reasons you were able to do this is that you and your husband have at least the option of working remotely sometimes. I'm curious how that worked. Like, like did it, were you like, Ooh, this was very challenging, or you like It was great, you know? How did you, how did you guys juggle the traveling, the kids, the, did you bring your starlink with you?

Did you have an internet the whole time? We do. We had starlink on our. It must, it must. I think it's permanently mounted on our camper now. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a, a new, a new option that they have. But yeah, it's, yeah. It's interesting because when I first started this podcast, which was two and a half years ago, starlink really wasn't good enough for doing.

Zoom recording and, and now for the last like year and a half, it's been great. You know, there was like a big change where it got significantly better for things like streaming and Zoom calls and podcast recording. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So, you know, obviously, well not, maybe it's not obvious to people, but one thing, um, I know that was challenging was the time change.

Yes, yes. You know, whether, how just I, I know we're mostly gonna talk about Alaska, but I think people will be interested in like, how you guys manage this and how, how it went in general. Yeah. So we, um, well, you always think you're gonna work more than you actually do. Yeah. So, we, we have learned that though, that over the last few years that.

We, we have realistic expectations of ourselves and what we'll be able to pull off. And, um, yeah. So we, we know that, and we also know we could not just take off and do this without people at home that pick up the slack for us. Yeah. And, and we are acutely aware of what a blessing it is and, and a wonderful opportunity that we're grateful that we are able to do that because it is not, yeah.

Traveling like extensively, like that is not something everyone can do. Yeah. So, yeah. But as far as the time difference, you just, we just had to my husband more so than I had to just suck it up, do some really early mornings and do some very early mornings. Yeah. Like 6:00 AM Alaska time and 9:00 AM Kansas time.

Yeah. For regularly scheduled meetings and stuff, just because, yeah. That's where, that's just the way it was. Yeah. So it sounds like the combination of having starlink or I, there may be other options. I'm not aware of any, but like a good, reliable mobile internet option and realistic expectations around what you could actually do were kind of the key to making it work.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'cause it wasn't, it wasn't like he was going. Into the camper or the truck to like work at nine until five, I assume every day. No, I'm sure that wouldn't have worked. No, it was when you, like there were days we'd have to stay in the camper and he would have to work and the kids would entertain themselves.

Yeah. And he'd get client stuff done, check in email calls. Yep. Whatever he needed to do. And then he might not do anything for a day or two or three. Yes. And then it might be another fuller day of work. Yep. Yep. So, yep. Okay, well thanks for walking down that little bit of a tangent with me because Yeah, sure.

I think that's something people are, are interested in is, how do people make this work? Okay. So let's talk about planning a little bit. So this is a nine week trip with five people, three teenagers. One person trying to work a fair bit. Right. That's a lot of moving parts. Yeah. Many states, thousands of miles, all this stuff.

So tell me a little bit about your planning process. Bethany, who did it? Was it all you, were other people involved? How much planning did you do? Um, yeah, tell me about that. Okay, so your listeners are probably going to. I want to scream at me when I, we did so very little planning. Yeah. Like, so very little.

The only thing we had booked was our trip to Snug Harbor. Yeah. And, and we had ideas of things we wanted to do. Yeah. But otherwise we just, we just wing it. Mm-hmm. So that's, that's how the whole. Trip was. So, yeah. I love it. So, and that's cool that you had that one anchor thing that you were like, okay, we're definitely doing this on these dates.

I love that you shared that Bethany, and it's so fascinating to me because. There's everything from people who have nine spreadsheets with like every minute figured out to people who are like, I'm gonna do nothing. And from my perspective, the key to that is flexibility. So like the fact that you had your camper and your time was a little flexible.

And you were open-minded about where you went is the key to making that work, you know? Yes. Because for people who wanna do things that do require a lot of advanced planning, and, and that is an advantage of driving yourself too. Like if you fly in and you have a rental car, you have to have hotels reserved because.

There's very few places you can just drive up and be like, oh, there's a room here. Right. So that's a really cool thing about the way you did it. So were there any time, did it all end up working out or were there any things that you like really wanted to do that that didn't work out? Or was that just not the way you were thinking about the trip?

I think. I think we got to do everything we wanted to do. There were things we got there we didn't even know we wanted to do until we got there and then we were like, oh, this is a thing, so let's, let's do that. But like our big things were just the bears. That was the, that was a big draw for us. And then just kind of anything else was just, whatever we see and do is just icing on the cake.

Yeah. I, I love that. That is so fun. And I think that's the key to being able to wing it, is being like, Hey, you know, I'm not gonna see bears in this location, but I'm gonna see them in this other location, and that'll be great. Yeah, right. I love it. Right. That's awesome.

I wanna ask you about Seward. Yes. So how did you, because Seward is a place that's impossible to get a hotel room or a place to camp. Without planning way ahead. So I'm curious how you did that.

Wow. I did not know that. Yeah. So how did it work out? Tell me about that. It was super easy. Okay. We rolled into town. Okay. We drove around. Um, that was a really cool campsite we had there too. We were right on the water. Yeah. Was it Resurrection Bay Campground or Resurrection something?

It was, I something, Iditarod something. Okay. Part, part of the, I think they have like a city. Campsite. Yeah. All the campgrounds like in Seward are owned by the city. Yeah. Yeah. What day of the week was it? I, it was a weekday. Okay. I do know that. Yeah. It would've, it would've had to have been because on the weekend it's completely full.

Yeah. That's crazy. See, we did, I'm telling, we just, when you were talking about it before, I'm like that, like Seward and Denali National Park are the places where. Things are the most squeezed, but if you're camping. In Denali, it's a little easier. Like you can get stuff a little bit later on, and especially if you're flexible about where you go.

Yeah. Um, but Seward is a toughie, so Nice job, Bethany. Yeah. And we did not actually camp in, Denali National Park. We were, we were in Cantwell. Oh yeah. Which is, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Wonderful little campground there. So did you leave the trailer in Cantwell and then you went mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

About half an hour. So. Easy drive. Yep. Yes. There are a couple of awesome campgrounds in Denali National Park, but especially if you are just gonna show up and go for it, that was a great way to do it. Yep. Yeah, I love that. So I'm like, how in Seward? But on a weekday I could see that working.

Yeah. Yeah. There were several available and we just, it was beautiful. Right on the water. Perfect. Super close to the Sea Life Aquarium. Yeah. Aw, yeah, that is, that is a great campground. I've camped there lots of times.

Okay. What, what's an example of one of, if you can think of one, Bethany, a place where.

You'd never heard of it before you got there and then you were like, oh, here's a thing we can do. And then you did it and loved it. Can you think of anything like that in particular? One of the things that was never on my radar was climbing, like ice climbing on a glacier. , That was just never on my radar.

And then once we were in Alaska, my husband started researching that and it was at the end of our trip, the very, very end, but we, we managed to pull that off and mm-hmm. Hiked, hiked back and climbed a glacier. So that was probably awesome, the biggest one. And where did you do that? That was just outside of Valdez.

Okay., It was the Worthing Worthington Glacier. Yeah. And with Alaska Guide Company is who we used. Awesome. Yeah. And that, you know, I didn't know what you were gonna say when I asked that question, but that's a perfect example of like, Valdez is way less busy than other places. So Valdez is a place you can roll in and book a tour like the next day.

Yeah. You know, whereas you can't. Do that in some places, you know? Yes. You're, you are correct. Yeah. And I think we had to push ours out 'cause we did kind of a private tour. Mm-hmm. So it's just our family. Yeah. So we had to push it out a couple days, but its still very do doable. You had the, and you had the flexibility to do that.



Yes. Which again, is like, you were flexible about where you went and if you needed to be there a couple days, then it was fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Love it. Okay, cool. So one, um. One thing I wanted to ask you about, especially since you went into this with like a, I'm just gonna be in Alaska and see what it has for me.

One thing that I loved about our short conversation in Snug Harbor was that you really, you were like being here. Changed me in in some way. So I would love if you're willing to share a little bit about that. Like how did this experience of going to Alaska and being really flexible and open to what that looked like, how did that change you?

Oh, I'm gonna cry just thinking about it. It's okay. It's, it's so emotional for me. Yeah. I just, I, I can't even describe it like, yeah. It, it's just you feel so small mm-hmm. And so insignificant in such a huge, rugged, wild, untamed, dangerous, but beautiful, serene, amazing place. And I just. Everything like the, the animals, the views.

I was constantly like this. We are so lucky to be able to be here and see this and experience it. I, I, I cried all the time. Yeah. My kids were like, mom, get a grip. And I'm like, I am sorry. I. Just thinking about when we were on the beach and you know, we were hugging and talking and you were crying and your kids were like.

And they were like, it's just been this way the whole time. I mean, that's not what they said, but that's like what their faces were telling me. And I'm like, it's okay. Yeah. And that was at the very first part of our trip. Like yeah, that was the very beginning. Yeah. So imagine another six weeks of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I thank you for, for sharing that, Bethany, because it's just such a, I feel like that's something a lot of people miss. Just from running, very scheduled from one thing to the next, and I feel like I'm this, it was a little bit of my ulterior motive for having you come on, because I feel like I'm always telling people just slow down a little bit.

Just be there for like a minute. Yes. Or a day and just kind of be and exist and experience. Yeah. Anyway. And we were very lucky. Like we know not everybody can spend an entire summer. And I mean, most people don't have that. It's a luxury, right? Like most people don't have that. And yeah. So we were able to, to spend so much time in places and if we wanted extra time in Valdez, we could stay.

Yeah. If we didn't love a certain area. We could move on. Like it was just, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's a really good point, but I will also say that even in a weekend trip, you can still find a way to, you know, a weekend trip doesn't feel doable for a lot of people, but if you're on the west coast, I've done lots of weekend trips to Alaska and, and it's really, you can still do it.

You can be like, you know what? I'm gonna go to this place and I'm gonna just be here. Yeah. See what happens. Glacier Bay National Park is my favorite place to do that. Okay. See, we, we did not make it there, so. Well, that'll, that'll be for next time. Yeah, that's right. Cool. So tell me a little bit about kind of the rest of the family.

And I know they're not here to defend themselves, but, nine weeks in a camper with three teens, I'm sure. Like had its moments. So from like a parent perspective, what advice do you have for other parents about kind of navigating really any trip to Alaska, but especially one one like this? Oh goodness.

Well, first of all, you're correct. It, it went wonderfully, but it was not perfect. Everybody. So we have to remind ourselves, like my husband and I, this is our dream. This is like our kids wanted to be there. Like, but road tripping all over is our dream, not necessarily theirs. Yeah. So we have to remind ourselves that, and that like the hardest part was, you know, they, they miss their friends course, their routine.

Of course. Yeah. Their where with, for us, like we have each other, so we don't necessarily, yeah. It's hard to remind yourself of what it was like to be a teenager or a young adult. Yeah. And yeah. And in that phase of your life. Mm-hmm. But, but just patience and, you know, everybody has things that they love.

Like, so you try to do things that everybody likes and mm-hmm. And like our girls were very receptive of partici participating in things that our youngest son wanted to do that maybe they didn't. Love. Yeah. So, and likewise he did things he might not have necessarily chosen to do, but you know, everybody has their wants, so you just try to balance it all out.

Yeah, that's, that's really cool. And also, I assume things are not always perfect at home either. Yeah. No. It's like sometimes I think people forget that they'll continue to be themselves on a trip. Yes, yes. Maybe even more like themselves than at home. Yes. And, and we experienced all of that and, but you know, we all came home still loving each other and speaking and it's, it's great.

It's, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. Let's go back to the road trip part. You spent a longer amount of time on the way to Alaska than on the way home, is that right? Yes, we did. Okay. And you did spend, I think you said 18 days on the way from Kansas to Homer, which was your first like official stop.

Correct. And then 10 days on the way home from Valdez? Yes. Okay. Which listeners? That is one whole day less, they're just being in Valdez instead of Homer. Just FYI. Okay. So how did you feel about. The driving part and the pacing as far as like how long your days were, did you feel like you got it exactly right or you would've liked to have done it faster, slower?

How did you feel about that? And I know it was different going there and going back. Yeah. On the way, loved our pacing. We did not have any crazy, crazy long days. Yep. No super short days either, just kind of average. We do, we knew we needed to be in Homer by a certain date, so we were very motivated to keep going, but we had a little extra time, so we, we were able to like restock in Anchorage.

Yeah. And then we like visited the Muskox farm and got to do some extra things in that area because we had the time. Yeah. But yeah. And the way home was.

I don't even know how to say this fast much. Yes. It was extremely long, exhausting days. , As fast as you can go with the camper, right? Yeah. But like, just long, long days. But yeah, we had, but we had deadlines coming home too. Our kids, yeah. Had to start, our oldest had to start an internship, like we had to get her moved back to college.

Yep. So there were. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. , And how did you, did you have, and, and also the reason you needed to get to Homer was because of Snug Harbor, right? Correct. Because that's where you were flying from. Just pulling that loop together there. Okay. Yeah. So. When, when you were on the road, did you have like an idea of places you wanted to stop or camp, or were you just like, or like, oh, ideally we'd make it this far on this day, or were you just like, we'll just go for it and see how it's going along the way?

Yeah, we were more of the, we'll just go for it and see how far we make it, and. What happens. So, yeah, I'm telling you, we are, we are very relaxed travelers. Yeah. That's awesome. My, my husband Jay, who is sometimes on the podcast as well, he moved to Alaska from Montana when he was 17 for, to go to college at the University of Alaska Fairbanks.

And he drove, he drove there when he was 17 in his Buick Park Avenue. And somehow, I can't remember exactly what the details were, but somehow he had miscalculated the distance. Like he knew that a lot that in Canada things were in kilometers, so somehow. He had thought the whole thing was in co. Anyway, he, he ended up being like, 500 miles further than he thought it was.

And so he was like rolling in there at like 4:00 AM before class started. Yeah.

And yeah. Anyway. Okay, so then. You were in Homer and Snug Harbor Outpost, which we talked about quite a bit last week. And you talked a little bit about here. So then, and then I know you went to Valdis.

Where did you go? In between. Okay, so in between we went to Seward. Mm-hmm. Then we went to Denali, the, the Denali area. And then up to Fairbanks, um, north Pole, and then back down to Valdez. Cool. Sweet. Alright, so I'd love to know Bethany, what was your favorite place that you went on the trip? My favorite place was Snugger River.

Oh, it's so amazing. It, it's, and it's, it's so much more than the place. Yeah. It's the people. Yeah. Like I, I, I will cry again, but Yeah, it's the people is. I told, I've, I've told you, and I've told Mariah that like, we went to see the Bears, but we left with friends and Yeah. That feel like family. I mean, yeah.

I still have a relationship with her. Like it's, yeah, it, it was, and the bears were amazing, don't get me wrong. They were like, yeah. They were , the bear Bears did not disappoint, but it's the best bear viewing experience that I've had in Alaska for sure. And I've had been lucky to have quite a few. Yeah.

Yeah, that says a lot. Yeah. It, it was our only, but it's the only one I. You made a good choice. When we go back, we will go back there. Yeah. Like it's, yeah. Yeah. Love that. Okay. I have a few other like best of questions. You could just whatever comes to mind first, what was your favorite place that you camped on the trip?

My favorite place that we camped on the trip was along the Denali Highway. Oh yeah. Yeah. Gee, it took us 45 minutes to back into this campsite. It It was challenging. Yeah, it was so challenging, but it was a million times worth it. Like just the views. There was water, there were moose. It was amazing. The Denali Highway is incredible and just sidebar listeners.

Number one, the Denali Highway is not in Denali National Park. So that throws people. It's not, it's in the Denali area, it's in the Alaska range, it's not in the park. Some people are like, how did you drive on the park road? It's not the park road. And then also it's one of those roads that you can't drive most rental cars on.

If you've got a local one that allows that, but cool. Nice job taking advantage of being there with your own vehicle for the Yeah. Yeah. We loved it. Yeah. What, what month was it when you were on the Denali Highway? That would've been July. Alright. Any other like things that you just really loved that, or, or that your kids or your husband really loved that you wanna call out as being really like, this was amazing.

Valdez, Solomon Gulch. So is it Solomon Gulch Hatchery? Yeah, it is. Yes. Yes. We went there many times. Like twice a day. Yeah, for like several days. Yeah, the sa the salmon were coming in sea lions everywhere. Eagles, seagulls seals. Loved it. Like we loved it there. It was kind of stinky. Yeah, it does smell real bad.

Yeah. You have to And, and the bugs were buggy. Yeah. So you have to be prepared, but loved it there. Yeah. Just the whole Valdez area. Yeah. I loved Valdez. I agree with you. I couldn't agree with you more about all these. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so Bethany, I know you loved Alaska and loved your trip, but I know that there's always things that people are like really wise.

So I'm curious if you'd be willing to share anything that you felt was overrated, or you had like heard amazing things and then you were like, I don't really get it. I will, it, it will, it'll, people will probably shun me. It's okay. Well, they'll shun me for, platforming your unpopular opinion, but I'm happy to do it.

I love it. I love unpopular opinions. It, it is an unpopular opinion, but I did not love Homer. Okay. It had been so built up in my mind. Mm-hmm. Like, you're gonna love it. You're gonna love it. And. I did not. And I think if you're, if you're comparing it to like Seward and Valdez, those are both very walkable, Yeah.

Very walkable communities. Very, yeah. They feel very close knit, kind of. Mm-hmm. There's even paths and walkways where Homer just felt so much more spread out to me. Yeah. And not as, and, and not that we even needed to walk. We have a car. Right. But it just did not feel as people friendly, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. Mm-hmm. And the people there were wonderful, like where we left our camper. Wonderful people just didn't love the area as much. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I, I know what you mean to, especially like when you're, when you've got a. Trailer and you park it, you're like, you don't wanna then drive around a tiny town with a truck and a 30 foot trailer on it.

Right, right. Like it's really nice to be able to roll in park and then like walk from there. Right. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Anywhere else that you were like, eh, um. Maybe just more inlands like, okay, I don't wanna throw, I don't wanna throw my family members under the bus, but some of them you can toss 'em, go for it.

Just toss 'em under. Did not, did not love Denali, Uhhuh. It was a little more barren. Mm-hmm. A lot of places. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I guess I could speak for myself too. I mean, we've. We've been very fortunate to be, to go to a lot of places and it was not my favorite national park. You, you're talking about di just clarifying that we're talking about Denali National Park now.

Yes, yes. I'm sorry. Yes. Not the Denali Highway. I just clarifying for like listeners because that is something that people always find super confusing, so that's why I'm kind of going over the top and being like, what are we talking about? Okay, continue. Yes. Yes. Once we were inside the national park, they.

Didn't love it. So we, we did not spend a lot of time there. Yeah. So, so you said, okay, so say a little more about that, because actually that's quite a common, quite a common experience in Denali. I'd love to know, if you can put your finger on like why you all didn't.

Love it. Especially compared to other national parks. I think that would be really interesting. I wish I could put my finger on it. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I hadn't thought about this very much, but they just, I think it's just, maybe what you picture in your mind is, yeah. I think that might be a part, a big part of it.

Like what we picture, you know, like we're filling in the gaps of what we think it's gonna look like. Yeah. Just based on photos and, yeah. Word of mouth and yeah, in our minds, I think, not that we were respecting animals everywhere, we, we've learned that that's not, not how it works. Yeah. But, just not as, not, not as treaty, if that makes sense.

Or like does it wasn't as dense. Just a lot more barren and. Which is is also part of Alaska though, like the, the tendra, like, I mean, so it's, yeah. It's all part of the same beauty. It was just not what, what I think in everybody in my family was expecting. Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I, you know, it's so interesting 'cause I am, I'm always of two minds about Denali.

Like, I mean, these things sound conflicting, but I feel like it is one of the most remarkable places in the world and a lot of people are disappointed by it. Those things are both true, you know? Yeah. And, and I also, even though I've been there. I don't know. I've probably been there with over a thousand people at this point, over the last 20 something years.

And then I've been there by myself as well. Or you know, talk to people who have been there and it's like, I, I think, and I think you're hitting on kind of the key things, which is that the landscape is very stark and wild. In in like a way that's almost a bit haunting. Yes. Which is really cool, but also if you're expecting like forests, there are trees by the entrance area, but other than that, you're right.

There really aren't any trees. Right? Yeah. And. There are lots of animals, sort of, but also not, you know, like, you know, it's, ah, it's like I've, I've, I don't think I've ever been on the bus tour and not seen a bear. Okay. But. Often it's far away. Yeah. Right. Like people are sort of expecting to, to have it be like being on safari.

Kind of. Yes. I've never been on safari, but the way I understand it is there's like lots of animals, right. Clo right close to you. And sometimes that happens in Denali, but not always, you know? Yeah. That was not our experience. Yeah. Um, there was one bear Yeah. But it was so far up the mountain that you Yeah.

You could barely see a little brown speck with your naked eye. Yeah. But people were so excited. So, yeah. And, you know, we had been to Snug Harbor Right. But we had been, yeah. Like, feet from bears and so it, it didn't, it didn't really excite us, but we were still so excited for the people. We're excited by it because that was, that might be their only bear sighting, right?

The whole trip. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think in Denali, if you can get deep into the wilderness, you know, like a flight scene tour that lands on a glacier or going out to someplace like Kenia is. Is where you really get into that. Like, whoa, this. Yeah. You know, at the, the, one of the earliest episodes of this podcast, spring of 2023, my friends Tom and Donna Habecker were on the podcast in Tom.

Donna and I went to grad school together to be school counselors, and Tom was a ranger in Denali at that time. So. Jay and I became friends with them. You know, he grew up in the park service and he was like, oh, other park people. So it was really fun to interview them. But in that episode, Tom talked about how like after he had been there for several months, I think, , as a ranger, the park pilot, 'cause it's the kind of park that has a pilot.

It was like, we, you need to see this park. You haven't seen anything. I'm like, just took him flying around and he was like, w whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This like blew my mind. So it's like, but not everybody has the opportunity to do that, right? So it's like, it's a complicated place for me. I agree. And you know, the road is closed, so you can't even get, like we took one of the tours in Yeah.

But you can't, due to the rock slide or whatever, you can't even get super far back. Yeah. So I think, I think you're right. If you were to backpack or like go deep in it would maybe be a completely different experience than mm-hmm. Than what we did. And I don't, I never wanna sound ungrateful, like we were so grateful we got to go.

But yeah, it was just maybe didn't live up to the expectations that we had in our minds. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that, Bethany, because you know, like I said, I think that is a very common experience actually. Yeah. But then there are other people who will tell you. I went to Denali and it's the most amazing place I've ever been.

Yeah. You know, which, which, that's what's wonderful and makes the world go round. Yeah. And I think that's true of a lot of places in Alaska. You know, it's so diverse in terms of landscape and climate and culture that. There are people who are like, I love this place. Or like, I went to this place and I didn't get it.

Yeah. I was like, why does everyone want me to go to Homer? Right. Yes. Like, why? Like, I mean, it was cool but, or it wasn't, but it wasn't. You know, I, I, yeah, I think Alaska really is an, and that's why it makes me a little sad when someone is like, not sad. I want people to get there any way they can and experience whatever they can however they want to.

Yes, but I, I will say that if you come into it with, like, I wanna see the, I'm gonna recreate these three Instagram photos that I have in my head. I'm like, oh, can we, can we just try to find out what you really care about and like Yeah. Line up something that will really be right for you. Yes. You know? Yep.

Anyway. Was there anywhere else that you were like, eh, or did we hit the main No, the main ones Fairbanks. Okay. Tell me about that. Well, I think I discovered. I prefer coastal. Yeah. Alaska. Yeah. I, which is, seems crazy 'cause I don't usually love water, but I, after being there for so long, I just, I think I prefer coastal.

The, the coastal, more coastal areas. Yeah. So , cool. So I didn't it and plus it was, it was hot when we were in Fairbanks and Yeah, it's, it can be really hot in the summer. Yeah. So, and I think that plays, plays into any, any trip you take anywhere. Yeah. The cla the temperature, so, yeah.

When I lived in Fairbanks, that was the furthest that I had ever, I mean, I'd never lived more than. Two miles from an ocean. Wow, okay. Yes. And that was like 500 miles from an ocean. And I was like, ah. And I, it's wonderful. I, and when I visit, that's not an issue, but when I lived there I was like, I gotta drive seven hours to Valdez to see kelp.

Are you kidding me? Like that's very weird. And we're in landlocked Kansas. I don't even like water. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But when you went to Alaska, we did. I, I loved it. I'm glad you gave it a chance, so, yeah.

Yeah, I did. I. Cool. Okay. So Bethany , before we wrap up, I would love to know what advice you have for other Alaska travelers, just in general, or anything else you wanna share with everybody. Oh, goodness. I guess I would say do not get. Paralyzed by the fear of thinking you have to have the whole thing planned out.

Hmm. We, we have done that for other trips when we first started going around in our camper. We put off going places because it seemed too overwhelming to have to book it all and figure it all out. But I would just say you'll figure it out. Yeah. Just, just go don't, don't put it off because it seems overwhelming.

Mm-hmm.  📍 So, yeah, that's really good advice.

Thanks so much for being here, Bethany, and thanks to all of you for listening. See you next time.

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

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Jay Flaming

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