Alaska Uncovered Podcast
Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming. Jennie brings you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and Life in Alaska. Guests include Alaska travel experts and Alaska business owners, guides and interesting Alaskans. Jennie is a born and raised Seattleite, a former Alaskan and spends several weeks in Alaska each year. She’s an experienced guide and the Founder of the Alaska and Washington travel website, Top Left Adventures. Jennie is joined by occasional co-host, Jay Flaming, her husband for more than 20 years. Jennie and Jay met working in tourism in Skagway, Alaska and also lived in Juneau and Fairbanks together. Jay lived in Fairbanks for 8 years before meeting Jennie in Skagway and grew up in Yellowstone National Park.
Alaska Uncovered Podcast
Why some visitors are disappointed in Denali and how to make sure you aren't
Jennie talks about common reasons visitors are disappointed in Denali National Park and how to make sure you're not among them on your Alaska trip.
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Music credits: Largo Montebello, by Domenico Mannelli, CC.
Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with me, your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, my occasional co-host and full-time husband, Jay, and I bring you accurate, helpful, and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and life in Alaska.
Before we start today's show, I just wanted to really encourage those of you who are planning a trip in 2026 and want some help from me to get with me before the holidays. So next week and the first two weeks of December, I. Added some extra times into my schedule to help you do that for, 30 minute planning sessions.
So jump on one of those., If you're struggling or if you wanna talk to friends and family over the holidays and wanna have your decks in a row. And also just a reminder about the Alaska Uncovered Planning Club on Patreon. It's so fun. I love answering your questions. So come on over there and join us.
today we are talking about a fun subject and this is one that has been on my mind to do you a solo episode about, uh, for a while, and I am recording it now. I just was like, okay, this is the time gonna make it happen. So today we're talking about Denali National Park, and the reason I wanna talk to you about this, of course, we've had plenty of other episodes about Denali in May of 20 23, 1 of the earliest episodes of the pod.
Jay and I interviewed our friends, Tom and Donna Habecker, uh, who we knew from our days in Fairbanks. And Tom was a ranger in Denali for many years. Um, also. In January, uh, we had an episode about visiting Denali on your own, like not part of a tour. And also there have been several episodes about flying into the park, over the park, visiting the Cantina Roadhouse.
So we've, we've talked about a lot of the, about Denali a lot on the pod, and I have no doubt we will continue to forever because this is one of the most popular places to visit in Alaska. So why are people often disappointed in Denali? Now, I wanna start by saying that not everyone is disappointed in Denali, and I'm sure I will get some hate mail from this episode from people who are like.
How could you ever imply that anyone doesn't love Denali? Um, and I get that because Denali is a spectacular and absolutely beautiful place. It's unforgettable, it's wonderful. However, the reality is that working as a guide there for many, many years, um. And I'm not a guide in the park, but when I work as a tour director, all of our tours without exception, go to Denali and spend time there.
And also when I worked in tourism and Fairbanks at one point the company I worked for took people down to Denali and back. And so, uh, people who are not employees of Doyon and Aramark are not allowed to like guide people. You know, we can't drive people on the roads, but I've spent a lot of time in the park with guests is my point.
And I've spent a lot of time in the park. On my own. And I can tell you, and I also have a lot of clients and I am in a lot of Facebook groups and things where people talk about Denali. And this is definitely something that happens. And because incredible listeners, I don't want you to be disappointed when you go to Denali.
I wanna talk about what happens. That is a problem. And I wanna talk about how you can have an amazing trip in Denali when you visit. And first of all, before we start talking about this, I wanna say it's okay not to go to Denali on your Alaska trip. Um, I've had a lot of people ask me that, like, will it be terrible if I don't go to Denali?
There are people who would say yes, but I say no. I say, Alaska is a vast state and you should go where you want to. And that is my firm opinion and I will stand behind that. But for today, we're going to assume that Denali is part of your Alaska itinerary or you are considering having it part of your Alaska itinerary.
Okay. So why are people often disappointed? I would say that there are two main. Sort of categories of reasons why people are sometimes disappointed in Denali, number one, and, and there's many other things that go into it. I'll talk about those a little more, but they kind of fall into two categories and, and all of it has to do with expectations, by the way.
Okay, so the first one is. Expecting that Denali will be like other national parks in the US and it is not. It's very different. It's really important to know that before you visit. And I think the second big sort of bucket of reasons related to that is. Not digging deep enough about what the experience is going to be like and what their options are there.
Um, that's related to expectations, but it's subtly different, has to do more with planning. Um, the first one has more to do with kind of where your head is and the second one has more to do with planning. So let's expand on those a little bit. Um, recently I. Was sort of doing a review of comments about Denali from, um, people who have visited in Facebook groups and are giving advice to other travelers.
And I am in three really excellent groups, uh, like that on, on Facebook, and. Let's see. Okay, so I'm going to just, I'm not gonna read this entire quote 'cause I don't think that's fair without permission, but I am gonna hit a couple highlights . They talked about the lack of trees and how most of the bus tour does not have trees, and that's true. Um, this person said they only saw two animals on tour on the whole trip. Um, they were disappointed with their being school buses and. Uh, they also talked about, um, how they were not wowed there and also seeing the mountain is, you know, a lot of people don't see the mountain Denali when they visit, which this person did. Not many of my guests have, not either. Um. Yeah, I think that's all I'll say about this. So I pulled this quote out.
It jumped out to me because it hit many of the things that that catch people off guard if they don't know what to expect. So first of all, I'd really recommend looking at some photos of Denali National Park. Not just the mountain, but it is. A very stark wilderness landscape. And this is true when people go to Fairbanks as well.
You know, I lived in Fairbanks for many years and worked in tourism and , that's another place. People are often disappointed if they don't know what to expect, especially if it's their first stop in Alaska, which is really too bad because. Fairbanks and Denali are very different. They have a similar climate, but they're very different places.
But both of them, if you know what to expect, are just incredibly special, beautiful, unique places. Okay, so there are, there are very few trees in Denali. There are trees around the entrance area, but this is something I've had a lot of guests talk about. They've been disappointed that there are not.
More trees. Doesn't mean there are no trees, but when you go out on the bus tour or you go out, um, on the hiker shuttle there, you don't really see trees after the first uh, little bit. And that really throws people off after about the first 15 miles. There really aren't. Any trees Personally, I think this makes it an incredibly stunning landscape.
The bushes are beautiful. You can see bears and caribou and moose more easily because they're not behind the trees. Um, so. That is not a drawback for me, but if you are expecting a forest, that that is not what you are gonna get. For the most part in Denali National Park, um, people even before their trip often complain about having to ride a bus and not being able to drive into the park and.
You know, we could talk about why that is or whatever, but I think what I want you to know is that it is this way. Um, it's this way to protect the park and for better or worse, this is the way it is. So it's time to get on board with the bus and. If you can't get on board with the bus, so to speak, um, then you can go as far as Savage River and you can do a few front country trails that are beautiful.
Um, I'd particularly recommend the Savage Alpine Loop, the Sav Savage River Trail, and also the Mount Healy overlook and the Triple Lakes Trail. Those are all beautiful. Um, and if you're a hiker, that might be the way to spend your time right on the bus tour. It's true that you're on a school bus for a long time, and I think people need to know that.
Right now, the Tundra Wilderness Tour is five to six hours long. When the road is open, it's uh, more like eight, and if you go all the way to Cantina, it's 12. So we talked about that in our Cantina episode. You need to understand you're gonna be on riding a school bus for that time now. Okay. Everyone says they don't want to do that.
I've never had someone say to me, oh, I really wanna ride a school bus for this amount of time. But I am telling you, and I do it at least once a year, sometimes more often. It kind of depends on what my tour schedule is like for many years. The tour, in my opinion, is phenomenal. You are with a group of people on a bus and you are going truly into the wilderness.
And so when you're on that bus and you make a stop and you get out. There won't be other people around and it's pretty cool. And I would say compared to how crowded, uh, Yellowstone Yosemite Grand Canyon can be, that that is a pretty special thing right there.
So I wanna say that about the bus tour. It's also true that often the animals that you see are far away. Um. Denali is not, I think sometimes people expect it to be like going on safari in Africa and I have not been on a safari, so I wanna make that clear. But people who have have said, you know, there's lots of animals, they're right next to you.
Um, Denali, again, it's a stark landscape. It's difficult for animals and humans to survive in this landscape, and you're not going to see. Crowds of bears or crowds of caribou. I have never gone on this tour and not seen at least one bear and one other animal. Now it does, and I have not had a tour who's done that either.
But there are people who don't see animals on the tour. It does happen. I know from some of my colleagues it happens. I know from the drivers that it happens, but people are sometimes disappointed if the animal they see is in the distance, and I just wanna encourage you. To be grateful that you got to see that animal from a safe distance.
Um, you know, it's pretty cool if there is an animal right next to the bus, but that doesn't always happen. And I think that the magic of going into this park and the magic of being on the bus tour. Is or going for a hike, um, you can absolutely do that as well, is that you are in this vast wilderness and it is a unique landscape.
It's very rugged. It's absolutely beautiful, but it is not like other. Places. So I just want to encourage you to take some time and Denali to just be, and whether that's going on the Hiker shuttle and getting off somewhere and just hanging out for an hour or two. You with nothing around you except that landscape.
It is pretty special. Maybe, maybe you're not up for that. And instead it is walking down to the edge of the Nana River, either near Denali Park Village or in the Canyon or Riley Creek near the entrance area and just looking at the water for a while. Um. Or doing a flight scene tour. We're gonna talk more about that in a minute, but just having a way to take in the vastness of this park, that is what makes it truly special and truly unique and very different from other.
From other parks. Okay. So, uh, that's one thing is sort of like expectations around that. Um, and I think the other thing I said was about planning, so it really doesn't matter. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say before we move on is expectations around seeing the mountain. So. Usually at the beginning of a tour, the guests are really, really, of course, want to see Denali the Mountain.
Usually one of their first questions is, will we see the mountain? Of course, I can't answer that because I don't know. Um, another one often is, what do you think our chances are of seeing the mountain? Did your last group see the mountain? And this is what I tell them. I'm, I'm gonna tell you the same thing I tell them.
I say we have as good a chance of seeing Denali. As anyone on this tour, I can't promise you that it's gonna happen. Um, it doesn't matter a ton what the weather is because there are often beautiful, um, it's tall enough to make its own weather, so even a sunny day and the sort of dominant weather pattern doesn't mean that we're gonna see it Similarly.
A cloudy or rainy day doesn't mean that we won't see it. Um, sometimes the weather changes. Sometimes we only see part of the mountain. Um, sometimes I have done flight scene out of Chetna where it was completely overcast, so this happened to me. Uh, in June. It, the day was completely overcast. You couldn't see the mountain at all.
And when we took off and started flying towards the mountain, it was completely clear. So. That was the same weather pattern that had to do with our altitude, what we saw. Sometimes it's raining, leaving the hotel in the morning and at some point in the day, people get to see the mountain or a glimpse of a mountain of the mountain.
It's super exciting. Um, sometimes the only time people see it is from their airplane seat when they're flying into or departing out of Anchorage. So. That's what I tell 'em, and I tell 'em, we're gonna have an amazing trip. Whether or not we see Denali, we're gonna see so many other cool things. Don't miss out on these other amazing experiences because you're worrying about whether or not we're gonna see the mountain, which is something that we can't control.
So I wanted to tell you that as well. I think it's so important. Okay, so planning, let's talk about that a little bit because I really think the key is expectations, understanding what Denali is and what it is not. But the part around planning has to do with understanding yourself as a traveler. So. If you are someone who likes to do outdoor activities, maybe you're a hiker, you really like to explore on your own, then hiking is a great way to see Denali, and you can do that utilizing the bus system.
But you can also do that in the front country areas and. On the trail system and not do the bus. And for some people that is gonna be a better way to go. So if that's resonating with you, just lean into it. Don't worry about the bus tour. Plan out some fun hikes like the ones I mentioned earlier, and just enjoy that being your day.
If you're someone who wants to, um, really make sure you get to see all the sites. Which is like the things that you would hear about, you know, in a, in a web article maybe, or in a social media post, or that a friend would tell you about as a highlight of their trip Then. You know, do the bus tour. If you want to increase your chances of seeing animals do the bus tour, that's, that's the best way to see animals.
Um, not that you wouldn't see them in other places necessarily, or that you will for sure on the bus tour, but we're talking about your odds. Um, so make your plan for your time there based on that, and that, that's probably the most important thing. I think another thing. Is people tend to rush in Denali, they tend to be trying to squeeze it in to as little time as possible, and that is a strategy that is really not rewarded with Denali for kind of all the things I was saying.
What makes this park special is having time to spend there and. If you're rushing from one thing to the next, you're, you're just gonna feel frustrated and disappointed, I promise you, if you don't have a lot of time. I have a couple solutions for that here in a minute. Um. But I think that's the important thing.
You really need to give yourself two nights in Denali that gives you a full day to explore the park, whether that's doing a hike, whether that's doing the bus tour, or a combination of the two. Um, there are other really cool adventures you can have in the Denali area, like dog, dog, kennel visits, and, um.
Raft whitewater rafting and a TV rides and there's just, and all kinds of cool things. So, um, don't sleep on that either if you have more time, but I really think that you need to spend at least two nights there, um, unless you're doing a day trip from Fairbanks. So I'll come back to that in a moment.
Alright, so. Know what you wanna get out of this trip and what kind of, or what out of your Denali experience, what kind of a traveler you are, and make your plan based on that. And this includes if you are there on a cruise tour and someone else has figured out, um, what the schedule's gonna be, I still wanna encourage you to take control of that day.
Uh, and of course you need to communicate with your guide. Don't just ghost them. But if you are thinking, you know what, I really want to go for a hike today. Instead of the bus tour, tell 'em that. That's fine. If you're like, you know what I am, I'm not sure about this bus tour, but I wanna give it a chance 'cause I really wanna get deep into the park and see wildlife.
Then do it and assume it's gonna be great. And it will be great. It's very rare that my guests return from that tour and aren't like, wow, I'm so glad I did that. And part of it is because I prepare them for for what to expect. Okay. Let's see. Anything else I wanted to say about that? Oh, one other thing, and Robin and I talked about this in our episode about visiting Denali on your own, if you are not on a group tour, so if you are just renting a car and driving to Denali, um, or yeah, that's how you.
Be on your own. Just know that you are in the minority of visitors, right? So if you are like, why is this parking not lot not full? It's busy here. It's because hardly anyone drives there. So there are people who drive. You'll see plenty of RVs, you'll see other cars. But it's strange because most people are traveling in groups.
So. The signs are are good, but just know that they're kind of geared towards group tours. So if you ever feel confused, you can always ask a ranger in the visitor center, um, or any of the employees. People ask me a lot, even though I don't work for the park, they'll see me wearing a name tag and be like, do you know how to get to the dog demonstration?
And I'm like, yes, it's right over here. The dog sled demonstration is really cool, by the way. Definitely recommend that. Okay. Um, uh, one other thing to know if you are traveling on your own is that the, the visitor center is very busy around the train arrival and departure times. So like between around 10:00 AM and like.
Noon-ish and then again in like the late afternoon. So kind of in the middle of the day or early in the morning is a good time to go to the visitor center when it tends to be quite a bit less busy. Same thing with the, uh, bookstore slash gift shop that's operated by Alaska Geographic. Okay. Last before we wrap up this episode for today, the last thing I wanted to talk about is visiting Denali.
If you are short on time, so I. Like I said, if you're, if your base is Anchorage, I do not recommend spending only one night in Denali because you will not have a full day there to experience the park. So I don't recommend that. Um. It takes, uh, for some reason people think they can do day trips from Anchorage to Denali, and it's a five or six hour drive.
So, and that's before you've seen anything. So that is just not reasonable. Um, so there's two ways that I would recommend seeing the park. If you only have one day. One of them is to be based in Fairbanks. So if you're, when I lived in Fairbanks, I did day trips to Denali all the time. It's a couple hour drive.
Um, you know, if you're, if you have a very early morning bus tour, that's gonna be a really early morning, but you can do it. Um, if you're doing a hike there, you can totally do a day trip from Fairbanks to do a hike inden alley. Like no problem. In the summer, there's plenty of daylight and. You know, you might, there might be a wildfire that slows down the road or construction.
Those things were both an issue this year, but it was still, you know, kind of two and a half hours was the longest, except when there was a fire that closed a portion of the road. But that, you know, that can happen. You can't plan for that. Um, there, you know, there can be some slow RVs on the road, but, um, for the most part, yeah, that's a good day trip.
The other way to do it, if you're based in Anchorage. Uh, is you can do a day trip up to tna. You can do that either driving or on the Alaska Railroad or on the Park Connection Bus. And if you're in, that would give you probably like four or five hours in tna and you can book a flight scene trip into the park.
And just a reminder that if you go with K two Aviation, you can save 10% with. My code for the podcast, which is Alaska uncovered. So that's a great way to do a day trip to Denali. And I also wanna say, I, I didn't talk too much about flight scene, I just touched on it earlier because I know flight scene is expensive, but wow, is that an incredible way to experience this park?
If, if you want to have your mind blown by Denali, then. You need to go flight scene. It's just unbelievable. You cannot get a grasp or a handle on how large, um, the Alaska range is, how towering these mountains are, except from the air. I firmly believe that. And if you do a glacier landing in the park, uh, that you're gonna be on the glacier with just a few other people in the middle of the wilderness of Denali National Park.
It's just incredible. So if your priority is either a short amount of time or a really mind blowing, unforgettable national park experience in Denali, you wanna do that. So just telling you it's absolutely incredible. All right. I think that is everything I wanted to say about this topic. I would love for you to sound off to me if you've been to Denali, do you agree with this?
Do you disagree? Please tell me. I would love to hear from you that text message button. Um, there in the show notes. You can just click that and, um, tell me what you think. I'd love to hear from you. And by the way, thank you to the person who recommended this was a couple weeks ago, but someone said, Hey, after that episode about the Epic Day trips from Anchorage, can you do one about Fairbanks?
So that's a good idea. I'm gonna see if I can work that into the plan. Uh, for 2026. We'll see. The calendar is getting. Really full. Um, but we'll see if we can make that work. So thanks for listening everyone. 📍
if you are enjoying the podcast, please leave us a rating and or a review. It really helps other people find us. And if you want to join the Alaska Planning Club, it's super fun. It's a private podcast feed where I answer all your questions. You can find that over on patreon.com/alaska uncovered.
