Where should I book my tour to support small and local Alaska Tour Companies? Behind the Scenes with Kierre, Mandy and Jennie

Jennie is joined by small Alaska business owners Kierre Childers and Mandy Garcia to spill the tea about how things work behind the scenes at a small locally owned tour company and how it works when you book through an online travel agency (TripAdvisor or Expedia, for example). 

Thank you to this week's sponsor, Avens Alaska!

Salmonberry Tours (Mandy's company)

Revel Treks and Tours (Kierre's company)

Transcript

 Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with me, your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, my occasional co-host and full-time husband, Jay, and I bring you accurate, helpful, and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and life in Alaska.



Today's episode is sponsored by Avens Alaska. AVS is located deep inside Wrangle St. Elias National Park. It's where true wilderness meets comfort and ease, stay and thoughtfully crafted cabins and yurts, explore uncrowded trails. Lakes and vast mountain landscapes by day, and then return to chef prepared meals and warm hospitality at night.

When you book your stay mention Alaska uncovered and receive a handcrafted welcome gift just for you listeners. Learn more@twentyeightmile.com. I will put that in the show notes as well and discover Alaska the way it was meant to be experienced. I wanna just add. For all of you listening that S Alaska is not only in Wrangle St.

Elias National Park, but it is on the Nebes Road. And if you're like, I've never heard of the Nebes Road. Well, it is definitely the road less traveled, so this is already a less traveled park, and this is the only. A place to stay like this on this side of the park. Also this is a small, local business, like what we're talking about in today's episode. So definitely consider. Visiting them this summer or in the future. So thank you to Michael and Victoria and s Alaska for sponsoring this week's episode.

Today I am super excited to welcome back to the podcast Kierre and Mandy, who have both been on the podcast before, both together and separately. So in November. 2024. We had an episode about women owned businesses in Alaska, and Kierre and Mandy both participated in that.

And then each of them have both been on the podcast. Kierre, uh, came on and we talked about lots of fun things to do in Palmer and Mandy came on and we talked about ways to use a small. Local tour operator to get back and forth to your cruise ship from Anchorage. So those were some great episodes. Go back and listen to those, if you missed them.

So even though you've been here before, Mandy and Kierre, I would love to have you briefly reintroduce yourselves. And today we are talking about, what are called OTAs, which are. Those places where you can look at lots of different tours at the same time, like TripAdvisor, for example. That's not the only one, but just an example.

Okay, so Kierre. Mandy, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for talking about this topic today. Thanks for having us. Glad to be back. Thanks for having us, Jennie. Yeah, it's so fun to have you back and I love talking about these kind of behind the scenes controversial topics that I think our listeners will too.

Alright, so just briefly, um, Kierre, could you start by just reintroducing yourself to everybody? Tell us who you are and, and what you do. Yeah, so, um, my name's Kierre Childers, I own. Revel

Re with a V as in Victor, not Revel with a, Revel is a Revel's, a small guiding company based in Palmer. Um, and we do private day trips and, uh, multi-day packages and custom trips as well. Sweet. Thanks Mandy. Can you reintroduce yourself to everyone? Hey everybody.

Uh, my name is Mandy Garcia and I'm one of the co-owners of Salmonberry Travel and Tours. We are located in the heart of downtown Anchorage,

We do a small group of private, locally guided tours throughout Alaska.

Sweet. All right. Well, thanks so much for coming back and being willing to chat about this topic that the three of us have talked about several times, and not just us, but I've talked about it with other people too. So listeners. The reason we're talking about this today is that, you know, part of my job is to help you have an amazing experience in Alaska, but also to kind of understand how things work.

And that's what we're really talking about today. And before we dive in with Kierre and Mandy, I wanted to just mention. That the majority of tour operators in Alaska are small, locally owned businesses. Now, not all, of course, there are some exceptions, but most, uh, tours that you take in Alaska are operated by very small businesses regardless of how.

You book the tour. So Kierre, could you start by just telling everyone kind of for a small tour company like Revel.

Could you share a little bit about what some of the costs are? So of course you also have to make a living doing this, right? But sometimes people, I think just don't know, like, what are the costs that go into for you before you even think about, you know, booking guests or earning a living for yourself.

Um, what are some of those things that you have to account for as far as costs? Yeah, that's great question. Um, so we have a, when I think about all the things that go into, you know, when we price things, um, a lot of our, the things that we do are like active adventures. So like hiking, we do a lot of hiking stuff and outside stuff.

Um, so when I think about trip expenses before. I get paid or other folks get paid. Things like permitting, um, commercial liability insurance, the website, you know, that's something that we have to maintain and pay for our booking platform that we use. Um, snacks for the trip, gear for the trip, all of that I would consider kind of, um, trip expenses in that bucket.

And then we have to pay guides. And in addition to the. The pay that they make on trips. You know, there's also significant time that goes into training guides for a very short summer season. Um, and a limited winter season, I would say to be, yeah. Um, to be realistic with kind of what winter looks like for us.

Um, I think Mandy does more in the winter, so maybe she can speak to that. But yeah. So training and then, uh. Then, uh, then after that I wanna make sure I get paid. And then I also wanna make sure that the business gets paid because, you know, maybe we wanna buy a bigger vehicle next year, um, or do more, more intense training at, you know, so, so all of those are some of the things that go, go into the behind the scenes.

So, yeah. Cool. Yeah. If I could, if I could add Jennie. Yeah. I think here, just touched on so many great, um, pieces of this and even, uh, training, like for our vehicle size, it's CDL, so we are all, uh, CDL, uh, holders for our driver's licenses. So we have an in-house training program. And, um, you know, do you in, do you buy another vehicle to ensure that your fleet is staying nice and, um, you have, you know, lower mechanical costs?

So when we put together like a price spreadsheet of what all the variable costs that go into a tour, , we have to account for, those. Kierre touched upon the permits, but , not only do we have a commercial permit, but at every photo stop, or almost every photo stop, you're probably going to be on some sort of public land in Alaska.

And so a, a part of your admission actually goes back to that land holding, whether it's the state of Alaska, the BLM. National Park, national Forest, there's lots of public land in Alaska. Mm-hmm. And so not only do we have a commercial fee, but then there's a per person usage fee that, um, that's also woven inside of there, which goes to upkeep trails and bathroom and tourism, uh, provides, like our visitors provide that opportunity for those, you know, scenic viewpoints to be there, which I love.

Yeah. When you do think about the behind the scenes pieces of it and the training that goes into having a quality guide team, we do a biannual training. I'm actually at our training right now. I stepped away so I could be with you guys and love that. The team is on a little mini work burst because we can't fully close the office.

Yeah, for a week in order to have some forced family fun and some intense training. But it's a really, you know, that this training allows us to become a better guide team and to all get on the same page, especially as guides. You know, we might be in the off. For 15 minutes before the tour and, you know, 15 to 30 minutes after the tour.

And so making sure we have connections with the sales team and the owners, you know, that's a big, that's a big, big deal to make sure that company culture is throughout, woven throughout. So the guest experience, if they go on Salmonberry, you know, uh, south of Anchorage is a similar experience as they go with Stanbury north of Anchorage.

Yep. Yeah, and I think all those things you mentioned are so important and I just, you know, since I am also a guide, just wanna say that from the standpoint of being a guide and you both are and have been guides, even though you also own your companies, um. You know that investment is so important and listeners, I gotta tell you like this is what makes a tour experience incredible, is the guide who takes you and their local knowledge and their experience and their training and yeah, it's just so, so important and it costs money.

Alright? Yeah. It's the difference between a shuttle driver or. Uh, and an experience, an adventure, a tour. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well said. Absolutely. Well said. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay, so now that folks understand a little bit about some of what happens behind the scenes before they meet their awesome guide for a tour, uh, let's talk about the booking part, Sue.

Of course this is a little bit challenging because listeners, I'm sure some of you work in fields like this as well, where it's like you are a small local company and you've got families coming on your tours who are like spending their hard-earned money to, to have an experience and an adventure with you.

And in order for that money to change hands, for all that to work, you need some type of like booking engine or booking platform. So this is kind of getting closer to talking about TripAdvisor and friends. Um. So what are some of the challenges? Maybe Kierre, we could start with you this time. What are some of the challenges that you have to navigate as a tour operator in figuring out how to take people's money and how to publish your schedule?

Oh man, that is, I know that's loaded. That's a lot there. It is a challenge. And we're, I, I'm excited to hear what Mandy has to say. 'cause in, in the spectrum of our business, we're, we're a lot younger than Salmonberry. Yeah. So this. 2026 for us will be our fifth year of business. Yeah. Yeah. So, , I think for us, a big challenge, particularly for our higher ticket items are booking fees and processing fees. So, and I. I'm not sure if I'm using the jargon correctly, but when I think about a booking fee, I'm thinking this is a fee that's passed on to our guest mm-hmm.

For them using our booking platform. Um, right. And if for, this is for the platform that we used, and when I think about a processing fee, that is the fee associated with using a credit card. Right. So if you're spending, again, your hard-earned money, you know, how can I minimize what gets passed on to the guests as much as possible, especially if it's like a big trip, um, is, is a challenge for us.

Um, and so next year our model is kind of like a hybrid for our. Lower value items, we're using a booking platform. And then for our higher ticket items, it's, you know, contact us and we'll send an invoice just 'cause mm-hmm. It just, it gets to be too much, um, yeah. To pass on. Yep. Um, and then I would say. I mean, another challenge with using a platform, if we're in that hybrid model.

Now, from a scheduling perspective, the advantage of using a booking platform is in theory, all of your schedule can be like spit out, right? Because everything is integrated and booked through there. But if I'm having some bookings come in, um, direct and some through the platform, now I have to manage the schedule in a little more complicated way because they don don't, right?

Get funneled to the same spot. Not like, not impossible, yeah. So the, I would say those are, those are some of our challenges and I don't, but I, yeah, I'm curious to hear what Mandy has to say. We're constantly evolving. Just like Kierre mentioned, she took some of her higher priced items off of an, of a booking platform or booking software, and that way it reduces the fees that are associated with booking. So on uh, many booking platforms, it's about a 6% fee,, which includes your processing.

And so if you've got a $3,000 tour, that's a whole lot different than a $30 tour, right? So, uh, like Kierre did, we have an itinerary software that we use for that piece of salmonberry, and then we have a day trip. World software that we use, um, called Fair Harbor, that will process, um, the, the credit cards for online direct sales.

So it's important to say direct sales because if you call us directly, we can input that. Tour, uh, over the phone without the credit card, without the software fee, without the credit card processing and the, the reservations fee that Fair Harbor places on the booking. Mm-hmm. Um, if you call salmonberry Direct, or if you call the operator direct, it's likely less expensive then if you go on the website and book direct.

Yeah. Um, the other, um, the other thing. About the booking software though. I remember when we first started, we had Candace and I had like a spiral bound notebook and it was like, you know, a person walks in from the visitor center across the street and says, will you take us on, you know, a tour down to the Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center?

Now I'm like putting it, I'm hand, I'm handwriting a manifest. Yeah. That's like where Salmonberry began. Yeah. 20 years ago. That's where it began. Yes. This software has changed. This booking engine has changed the world for us because, you know, uh. We do our scheduling in this software. So the tour guides are linked up with the reservations, which is also linked up with the tour van.

So with our fleet of vehicles, we can assign a tour, a guide, a group of guests, and a van all in one. And that can be open to the public if we still have seats available, or we can close it down if somebody wants to buy it private. So this software allowed us. Um, probably easier inventory management than what we were, than what we were trying to do before.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I appreciate both of you having like different perspective perspectives from like care from your company being newer and Mandy for yours existing for longer, like seeing different manifestations of this. So it sounds like so far where we are is like these online booking platforms. Cost money that, you know, that guests have to pay, but also it's convenient and so it's kind of a mixed bag.

Um, yeah, I would, I would agree with that, Jennie, because like if, if they're in a different time zone than us, or maybe they're, yeah, maybe they're even an international guest and it's midnight Alaska time, you can be booking something on the website for next week. Yeah. So, and some folks, they just want to.

Click on a date, figure out the price, read the details, and say yes. And, and then you get your econ confirmation. They don't really need to talk to, um, someone to process that. But we have a team of people in the office that are like totally there, ready to, you know, kind of help people process which tour is the best one for them.

So I think there's good, good reasons to, obviously for me. Fair harbor and that, you know, the, the reservation software has changed how we manage our inventory. And I believe it's, it has changed it for the better. Okay. And, uh, also allowed us to have the flexibility that should we input it direct, there will not be, you know, there will not be those fees, uh Right.

Uh, that you'd have if you were booking online. Yeah. Do you wanna add anything to that, Kierre, before we move on? I, yeah, I don't think so. I just wanna make sure if folks know when we, I think this is known, but sometimes, you know, when you work in an industry for a while, like you're like, the jargon becomes so second nature.

But when we're saying direct, we mean like calling us. I think folks know that. Thank you. Yeah, like call or email, like the actual guiding company. Yeah, that's direct. Good job, ki Thank you. Just looking out. Out. Looking out. Yeah. Yes. So if you sent an email to a person that had like an email signature with a person's name, or you called and someone answered the phone or you left a message and they called you back, that's booking direct.

Yes. Perfect. Love it. Okay. Alright, so now let's get into our, our OTAs, our TripAdvisor and friends. So, Kierre, could you, could you start by just telling everyone, so, you know, we talked about booking engines, which are platforms that a guest isn't necessarily. You know, they know they're booking it through something, but now we're talking about platforms that guests and visitors go to to look for tours.

So could you talk about like, what those are called in the industry and, you know, then we can just run through some examples of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, yeah, so. OI think we're, we're going into the OTA world here. So OTA is an acronym for online travel Agency and that is like your Trip advisor, your, um, get your guide, Airbnb experiences, all of those.

So, um, those would all be considered OTAs. I'm sure there's others out there as well. Those are the ones kind of front of mind. Um, yeah. For me. Um, and so what they do if you're an operator, so like Mandy and I, we can sell our offerings through these OTAs and um, and then they help, you know, market, market what we have to offer, um, and put those trips in front of people looking for experiences.

In Alaska. So I think, did that answer your question? It did, yes. Okay. Okay. Um, so we're taught, you mentioned TripAdvisor, get your guide and Airbnb experiences. Mm-hmm. Um, Mandy, are there any that we're, we're missing there? Anything else you wanna add about like what they are? Yeah, definitely. So there's a whole slew of OTAs out there, and I guess I probably should preface this whole little, um, statement with saying that at Salmonberry a number of years ago, it was, uh, pre COVID.

Um, we decided to, um. Take what we were spending in commissions to the OTAs. So how you, you pay to play with an OTA, right? So if you wanna be featured on their website, you're going to pay the OTAA percentage, and the higher you pay, the more you're going to show up. So what we decided to do as a company was to take those funds that we were spending at on OTAs and reinvest them into a marketing program.

Mm-hmm. That was in-house where we were able to do our own marketing in order to attract direct guests. Mm-hmm. So. I'll start by saying that Salmonberry no longer works with OTAs. However, um, we have had experiences, um, both positive and negative with OTAs, especially as we were, you know, we were starting out.

So, um, before Via tour was via tour. It was just via tour. I was like, we're missing a name. Okay. Yes. So Via Tour and TripAdvisor are like, you can think of them as one and the same. Yeah. Um, booking.com, if you're a hotels.com, like these are all big, huge data like computers, right? Yeah. That are, yeah. That are spitting ideas and suggestions and marketing at consumers.

And if you're looking to travel and you're saying, what should I do in Anchorage? Likely that first page is gonna be the big, those big OTAs that are holding inventory or they have inventory to, to sell. I would just encourage everyone,, to think about, you know, although it's easy to book with an OTA because all the options are there.

Yeah. Another great resource is the local visitors bureau because, like, visit Anchorage in town or the matsu, um, CBB in, in the Matsu Valley. Um. These are, membership organizations that give back to the community. They are, um, membership, uh, oriented, and they're able to, um, like as, , as Salmonberry and as you know, revel, we are able to get representation without a pay to play, but in a more.

Kind of equal playing field. Yeah. I know that my quality is, is where it's at and it's very shiny. If you go on, you know, say via tour, you go on via tour, everybody kind of looks shiny. How are you gonna tell one company from the next company? So my, I guess we decided to, when we decided to leave that market, leave OTAs, it was because we felt like they couldn't.

They couldn't represent Salmonberry in an authentic and true way as they were maybe comparing us to other operators that didn't have the training and the permits and the, you know, and the memberships, um, you know, organizations behind it. Yeah, I, so I would say Mandy's spot on with all of the, those. Thoughts from, for new operators?

I think it can be valuable just because of the exposure. Yeah. So we we're on this like tipping point of like, oh, like I, I would love to not, but like I do still feel like maybe is there a value in the exposure that they, like we can just get, get what we have to offer in front of so many more eyes by using Yeah.

PAs. Um, but back to what we were talking about, how, you know, a book direct booking when we were talking about our. Booking platforms, we can avoid these if you call direct versus booking through a website. The same with an OTA. If you, if you find us online through an OTA, but then call us direct, you will get a better price.

Yeah. And I think that is really valuable for travelers to know. So yes, Mandy was talking about how they take commission. We're talking at minimum, like 20 to 25%. And then when Mandy's saying pay to play, like I, I love that she's spot on. Like, yeah, there were, we could, we could up commission up to 70% and that's like, that's, that means money that is now going to that OTA.

Not to the small business, just so I can get a higher ranking in their search results. And that, I think that's where I'm at with the, with the whole OTA thing is just struggling with like, man, there's no, what you pay has no relationship with the quality of service that you're offering. Mm-hmm. And so I think, I think for visitors, a couple things.

That, uh, could be valuable to know is keep scrolling. Like don't just look at all the top results and think like, these are the best activities to do in X location. Because it's, it really is. I mean, maybe they're great experiences, I don't know, but it could very well be that these are the groups that are putting big money behind the OTAs.

Yeah. And as a small business, like I, we can't, we can't do that. Um, yeah. So keep scrolling and then like use OTAs for ideas, but then like find the company and book direct because mm-hmm. A hundred percent that, that is such great advice because yeah, it's, you can tell what the company is on the OTA platform.

Yep. Yep. Um, another suggestion I'd have too, um, as we're, as we're talking through this and, um. Just thinking about small businesses and what they do to the Alaska economy, like there was a huge, huge, um, disaster in Western Alaska. And overnight it was like everybody's rallying to get these people. 2000 people were displaced from their homes.

Yeah. And brought into Anchorage and at the front of it. Travel is there like we have. Yeah. The airlines are flying people in. It makes me emotional just talking about it. I know. But, and then the industry got together and, you know, the, the travel industry got together and I mean, we raised, you know, just thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars for relief and yeah.

You know who wasn't in the room donating? Yeah. Or was Expedia. Yeah. Right. So just remember that like, you know, these small businesses are supporting communities, they're supporting the local soccer club. They're Yes. And it's so important, and Kierre has an awesome community program that I think this ties right along with.

Yeah, I agree. Kierre, can you, I think I would love to have you talk about that for a moment, and I know you did when you were on the podcast before, but I think this, I, I agree, Mandy. I think it's such a good example of how a small local business takes some of the. Income from visitors who come to support things for people in the community.

And, um, could you share just a little bit about that? Yeah, sure. Um, and, and yeah, I, I don't think I'm alone in supporting community at all, but, uh, the way that we have, uh, we have opted. One of the ways that we've opted to support community with what we do is, um, so a portion of our business profits goes to fund, , community adventures.

So we have like a monthly women's hike, we have a monthly seniors hike. We host like classes on backpacking and, um, have community adventures. And we take part of our profit and offset the cost to allow. Locals in our area to come out on guided excursions with us, and, most of them have a small fee associated just because the demand for locals.

Actually is higher than we take out more locals than we do at visitors. Yeah., So we had to put a small fee on it, but the, but the profit from visitors, makes, makes it so that we don't have to charge locals like what we charge a visitor. Basically it offsets our permitting fees. All those expenses that we were talking about in the beginning.

Yeah. Visitors help pay for that so that we can take locals out at a really, really affordable. Price, and then about 30% of what we do for locals is free, and that's all because of visitor dollars. That's really cool. Thanks. Yeah. Okay, so listeners. You know, obviously like, like both Mandy and Kierre, I think both of them mentioned this.

You go on TripAdvisor, get your guide and it's very convenient. Right. And um, of course we all know, all three of us know, you know, lots of businesses that are still. Uh, generating a lot of their sales through these platforms. So every, every business kind of has to make their own choices about what works for them.

But I think what's kind of universally true is going back to something that you said, Kierre, which is if you are willing to take the extra step and do a little extra work of booking directly with them, you are going to support that. Business, but also get a better price for yourself. And so I just wanted to like reemphasize that, that this isn't just about how to help businesses in Alaska, although I think I hope you support that mission, but it's also about how to get a, um, more personal and affordable, um, price for the adventure that you're.

That you're planning? Is there any, there's also, there's also some items that are off menu, right? Yep. Or customized, like where they're so creative that, you know, it wouldn't do it justice just to put it online and put a book now button because it takes thought and care that goes into each and every tour.

Yep. And so, um, those particular, uh, items, you know, a lot of the. You know, travel advisors, like, you know, you're, you're. Your different, uh, you know, they used to be all travel agents, but like real travel advisors, like with offices and remote working. Yep. Um, or influencers. Um, they will actually refer people to call both KI and I to create.

Like a beautiful day trip for them or a multi-day trip for them. And that's not something that you're gonna find online. It's something that you email or call direct to get. It's like a, it's like a off the beaten path or hidden gem trip. Yes. Great point. Yeah, and you know, again, those of you who listen to this podcast, like we already know that you're interested in that because otherwise you wouldn't need to learn, listen to a podcast.

You could just do a couple Google searches and hunt around for tours and. You know, plan your trip and we know that you wanna go a little bit deeper in your experience in Alaska. Otherwise you probably wouldn't be here and certainly wouldn't be listening to this episode, that's for sure. Right. And I, I think people wanna know that they made the right decision about what company that they chose, what chose to travel with.

Yeah. And when you book direct. You can, you can hear it in their voice. You know, it's a real human. You can ask them, Hey, what, what does it look like in Alaska today? And a local company will be like, oh, it's actually, it's snowing today. Yeah. Um, the school, you know, the school's closed early. Yeah. Or, Hey, we're having, you know, we're having a great, we're having a great summer.

You know, we're getting a tour on the road in about an hour. Can I call you back? Yeah. Um, like these. You know, this connection to um, place is like real, it's a real connection to place, and that means that if something doesn't go right in your trip to Alaska or through Alaska, there's a human there. Yeah.

That can help you. Yeah. And, and you're not gonna get that if you book online with. A with an OTA, like Expedia, um, you're just gonna get a computer. Follow the prompts, I guess. Yeah. You know, that's, that's another really good point too, Mandy. I'm thinking about just, you know, when I am. Working with guests and travelers, helping people plan their trips.

There's also unexpected things that happen. Now, of course, both of you and all, um, all companies in Alaska have cancellation policies and like all of this stuff, so I'm not saying those wouldn't apply, but like. As you both know, I recently broke my arm and you know, if I, if I had called Mandy to set up my transfers to the ship and I was like, Hey, I, I'm still coming.

I broke my arm. I have a few limitations, like, am I still gonna be able to participate in this? You know, is this still gonna work for me? Exactly. You would talk to me about that and, and exactly. A TripAdvisor is not, is is not like there's not even anyone to talk to. Or if you're like, your flight is super delayed, you miss your flight and you're like, I'm gonna miss my tour.

You know, if you. If you booked with a person, we can help, like Yeah, yeah. We can help like figure it out. Right, right. And, and it's so nice to be able to like, pick up the phone and talk to ki I mean, we work together, we, we, we refer people back and forth to us all the time. Yep. Together and, you know, we'll pick up the phone and be like, Hey Kire, you know, I wanna bounce this idea off of you, or.

Hey, do you have a, do you have a van available? There's these people, X, Y, Z. Um, so I think that it's super important to know that the small businesses have this little network too, that they, you know, they're gonna take care of you when you travel to Alaska, um, which is like a really special thing. It really is.

Can I, yeah, I wanna, I would love to add to that. So, because I feel like you Yeah. Like spot on when you're in Alaska and also in the pre-booking stage, like this is like another, I think, another reason to talk direct, um, with an operator. Like, it can feel scary to like call someone or send an email. Like I totally understand the convenience of like, booking with an OTA, but even in your trip planning, making a call, like if, if you're not a good fit for us, but you, you tell me like you wanna go on the.

On an amazing glacier experience, I might, I'll be like, maybe you should call Mandy, right? You know, salmonberry runs this great trip out to the Madoka and, uh, I, from what you're telling me, it sounds like that might be what you wanna go on. And I think that, that too, like back to what you guys are talking about with the connections that we all have, like that you see that throughout the duration of your trip with, when you talk to local folks.

Appear operating. It's, you know, from the planning to the pre-departure to when you get here, we're taking care of you. And then to after you leave, like the dollars, just the way that they filter through our local economy, it's, it's a win. So, yeah. Absolutely. I totally agree.

If you're planning your trip and it, you're finding it overwhelming because there's so many options and so many choices.

That's when. A small company can help you. That's when a local operator can help you. Mm-hmm. Like Kierre mentioned, that network and, I do believe that, you know, the best thing to do is, is really to. You know, everybody wants to do their research, but it is really nice to be able to say, okay, , you know, Jennie recommended this person.

Mm-hmm. And I'm just, I'm just gonna give them a call or an email or a lot of, a lot of these phone numbers you can text too. Like you can, you can text the office number. Um, if you don't wanna, um, call or WhatsApp us, uh, that's totally fine. So, um, I would, yes. Call book direct book direct book direct. You are, you're helping yourself.

Um, you're gonna have a smoother trip. You can leave notes. There's sometimes the people have. Told us, you know, really quickly, um, over the phone, like, okay, well I'm just so excited because I, I bought these brand new UGG boots for my trip. And I'm like, oh, wait, wait, wait. Um, you know that's not the best for going dog sledding because they're gonna get dirty, right?

Yeah. It's like, why don't you borrow one of my boots and now we're adding a note that says, Hey, um, you know, so and so is gonna borrow a pair of boots from the lending closet. And yeah. Um. So those little details that we can get when. When we talk to somebody or communicate directly with them, are just the magic moments that happen when you travel and then when you get here, you know, you've got your, you've got your borrowed boots, so you don't have to get your brand new Uggs journey Totally.

Love that. Or like, if you're like, Hey, I wanna propose to my partner, or I wanna surprise my mom for her birthday. Like that's another hundred percent yes. Like, yes, there'll be ice cream, there'll be hot tokos. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna pull out, they're pull out all the stops. Yeah, totally.

I think if your takeaway from listening to this is,, like if you still opt to book with through OTAs, or non-direct, I guess I should say. I would say you'll you'll still get a great experience. Yeah. But you, you missed a, a really cool opportunity would probably how my, yeah.

My like last little nugget. Yeah. And call, call and reconfirm because Oh yeah. Just in case. Great point. Yeah. Yeah. Just in case. Yeah. 'cause sometimes that doesn't, yeah. Sometimes there's issues there, so. Yep. Yeah, totally. I, you know, that's funny that kind of, I think that goes back to kind one of the things I was saying at the top about how.

Like you're going to be going, you know, if you book it through TripAdvisor, if you book it through, get your guide or you book it direct if it's the same company. When you're there, you're gonna have a great tour no matter what. It's not, it's not like the tour operator is gonna be like, well, you booked in this other place, so we're gonna give you a worse experience.

That that is not, I could guarantee you not what happens, but I'm also, this is a little out of scope for what we're talking about today, but I'm thinking about like things like hotels and flights and man, if something goes wrong, it's so much better if you, you know, like. If you booked a flight through Expedia, say, versus going, being like, oh, looks like, you know, Alaska Airlines has the best deal.

It looks like Delta has the best deal, and going and booking there. If something goes wrong, it, it does matter. You know, like yeah, I've definitely seen that plenty with my guests for sure. Well. Cool. Well, I am so grateful to both of you for joining me today to talk about this kind of behind the scenes topic.

So thank you so much, Mandy and Kierre . Thank you. Thank you. It was great to have  📍 both of you back. Yeah. All right. Great to see you. Bye bye. Bye.

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