The OuterBelt's Podcast
The OuterBelt's Podcast
Trucking Truths, Leasing Lows, and Parking Pros: Exploring the Heart of the Industry!
Unlock the secrets of the trucking industry and discover how to protect yourself from the pitfalls of truck leasing. Our latest episode brings you a deep dive into the FMCSA's Truck Leasing Task Force report, revealing the harsh realities of exploitative lease-purchase programs. Hear from Melissa about her recruitment experiences and the struggles drivers face as they navigate these oppressive contracts. We question how these recommendations could reshape industry practices and what this means for companies that don't control their drivers' work or act as motor carriers.
From tales of unethical mega carriers to shining examples of fair leasing practices, we highlight how some trucking companies are making a positive impact. Discover how ethical programs can benefit drivers, particularly those nearing retirement, and why FMCSA oversight is crucial. We touch on the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association's concerns, the tricky classification of drivers, and the intricacies of cross-mingling trucks. Our conversation expands to commercial insurance, service hour adherence, and the grace of maneuvering massive vehicles.
Concluding with stories of hair follicle testing gone wrong and innovative parking solutions like the Truck Parking Club, we mix humor with pressing industry issues. Marvel at the nostalgia of paper logs and manual banking as we compare them to today's digital systems. Venture with us on cross-country trucking adventures and understand the challenges and beauty seen from the driver's seat. This episode offers both informative insights and engaging stories, perfect for anyone intrigued by the trucking world.
Email us: theouterbeltpodcast@gmail.com
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Speaker 2:Welcome everybody to the Otter Belt. My name is Chili and you know my friends to my right.
Speaker 1:Buttermilk.
Speaker 2:And to her right, eric, and all the way across the table. Over there it's. Zucchini bread and to their zucchini bread's right, jerry. And the man in the middle is this is Patrick. Hello Patrick, how are you today?
Speaker 4:I'm doing well, and yourself you know what?
Speaker 2:I got some breaking news for you. Let's have it. Yeah, the FMCSA panel on.
Speaker 4:Truck leasing Truck leasing, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. I think I read your mind. You did read my mind. We definitely didn't talk about this already.
Speaker 2:The name of the panel is the Truck Leasing Task Force. Very simple, very basic. What do you think they're tasked with? Truck leasing, studying truck leasing.
Speaker 4:Okay, yes.
Speaker 5:They have to go get truck leases.
Speaker 4:They're actually leasing trucks. Yes, that's what it sounded like. They're working with Mr Gambino, exactly.
Speaker 2:They do a lot of garbage trucks, apparently yes. So they were tasked with studying the truck leasing, the lease-to lease purchase programs that a lot of carriers have out there and determining their viability. And what they've come out and said to a person is that the arrangements that these motor carriers they're looking at, motor carriers that are controlling the work, the compensation, the debts of a lease operator and they're saying that they should be prohibited, they're actually calling on Congress to make illegal certain forms of lease purchase programs. A lot of these carriers are making their bones on these drivers' backs with leased purchase programs that just aren't sustainable for the drivers, the lease operators.
Speaker 4:Basically, so when you sent me this article the other day and I read through it, the first thing that caught me was the headline.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah.
Speaker 4:The F&C SA panel is forbidding or recommending that they no longer do truck lease purchases.
Speaker 2:Right, and I'm like we do that, we do lease purchases, what's happening.
Speaker 4:I'm a little concerned. So I went through and read the article and it was a 51-page report 51-page report I saw that 51 pages. What could you possibly say?
Speaker 2:I read through it all this afternoon. What could you possibly say? I read through it all this afternoon.
Speaker 4:What could you possibly?
Speaker 2:say in 51 pages about truck leasing other than their?
Speaker 4:scams yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's a simple half page. You can print it twice on one sheet of paper, cut it in half and distribute it.
Speaker 4:Oh, they're giving it to 102 friends.
Speaker 5:Right, so that's why they had to do that I was going to ask what font it was Comic Sans which we thought was super unprofessional.
Speaker 2:So our truck lease programs.
Speaker 1:Size 6. Sorry.
Speaker 5:Size 6. Sorry, wait, is that the dress or the font? I'm sorry, the font size, no, the dress was yellow.
Speaker 4:Oh so okay. No, the dress was yellow, oh so okay. I read this and I thought, okay, this affects us. We're in this business. This might not be good.
Speaker 2:Right, Like we need another curveball thrown at us?
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly Early 2025. We've dealt with enough of them already.
Speaker 4:And, granted, this is just a recommendation, nothing's in stone yet but they did say specifically, a motor carrier who controls the work, compensation and debts of the driver is prohibited. Right, we are not a motor carrier. We are not a motor carrier and we do not control the work. We do not. So I'm like, all right, and we control the debts of the asset, but we don't control anything else. So I read through this and it actually has a lot of support behind it. They actually were talking about how there are members on here of this panel from like oh, I think had one. There's several small businesses that are on there and there were people that went into this literally saying we support the lease purchase model, we believe this is the right way to go, and after doing a three-month investigation, they have all come back and said wow, we were wrong, which blows me away.
Speaker 2:They felt like going into it. They felt like this is a great way to small business ownership, a great path because this carrier is allowing you to lease this equipment with the right to purchase it at the end. It's a great path to ownership. But when they got into the minutia of it, I was like, yeah, no, this is not good. Absolutely this is not good at all.
Speaker 4:And we see it on our end. So the recruiting, Melissa, you can kind of talk to this a second.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I get a lot of people calling.
Speaker 4:Get a lot of people who are in lease purchases and wanting to leave that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a good thing.
Speaker 4:They're getting ripped off. They're making less money than they were, these beggar carriers. There's a few that do it well, so I've got to be careful when I'm saying this. There are a few that do it well. You may be a lease purchaser person going like well, my carrier treats me great. I'm making more money than I ever did.
Speaker 5:I own this really nice truck.
Speaker 4:Great, that's rare, that's the oddball. There's so many of these predatory companies and some of these are big national mega carriers I can't list, otherwise they would take us to court. Right, they are predators and they've realized we can make money off of selling the freight, delivering the freight and then using the person delivering the freight as another profit center, and then we can make us even more money. And they do that by charging ridiculous rates on trucks.
Speaker 1:That's the biggest I hear.
Speaker 4:Yeah, ridiculous rates on trucks, old trucks. It's a great way for them to dispose of their old stuff.
Speaker 2:So they go like all right I don't need this.
Speaker 4:We don't need this 300,000, 400,000-mile truck anymore, so let's sell it to you and you can have it for four more years, and we're making so much money in a year or two and you realize this is a scam.
Speaker 4:We'll happily it outright for a few years, right, and we'll send it. We'll either put another person to it or we'll send it to Ritchie Brothers Auctions or send it down to Mexico and get rid of it. We really don't care. We've already made our money. We made even more off you, which is a terrible thing it is.
Speaker 4:But these mega carriers, a lot of them, do this thing called throttling and I didn't know, like maybe eight or nine years ago, and that's their cute way of oh yeah, throttling. It's commonplace in the lease purchase business and what they do is they know approximately. Well, they know your truck, note. They know what you're going to spend in fuel, because that's pretty much if you have a large enough fleet. Those are all like speak limited vehicles, yada, yada, yada. They know roughly what you're going to spend in fuel.
Speaker 4:They know what your tolls are going to be, because they're they're dispatching the freight, so they know exactly what you're paying in tolls. They know all this stuff. They know a pretty good estimate of what your maintenance will cost, and so they look at that and they go all right, let's say, all that stuff's six thousand dollars a month. Well, they know if we put ten10,000 on your truck. You put four in your pocket over the course of a month and then we get the six back. Then they know that they're giving you just enough freight to make it Right, because most people, most truck drivers that are out there running solo, would look at four grand a month as nothing Like most of you do recruiting. How many people, if we said you're going to make $4,000 a month, would laugh on the phone and hang up?
Speaker 1:As a team.
Speaker 4:No, Well, we don't do solos, but still just a driver.
Speaker 1:Oh, they would complete laugh.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:They just would disconnect in a heartbeat. There wouldn't even be a goodbye.
Speaker 4:But what these companies are doing is they're giving you just enough freight so you have your assets. They're stringing you along and they control how much freight they put on your truck based on what your expenses are going to be. Now the bad thing about that is, if you ever have a major expense, they know you don't have enough money to cover it, so they will pay for it and then they will charge you back for it over several months and get even more money out of you. And they're running it through their shops, their programs, so they're free to mark it up. They're free to mark up the fuel you buy. They're free to do all that stuff. They can mark up your tolls. They get the electronic price, but you pay the cash price. So they're doing all these things to make money off the driver. And they call it throttling that's their cute industry-wide term for it.
Speaker 4:It is a shame, because most people don't even realize it's happening. Some of you that are watching this may be at a lease purchase with a mega carrier not realizing this is happening, and you sit back and think about it and you're like, oh man, that's exactly what's happening to me as a company driver. I was running more miles, I was making more money and I didn't have the burden of this truck At first. There's that like this is my truck. I've got this really cool truck.
Speaker 1:I'm owning it, you know, whatever.
Speaker 4:And that starts to wear out when you see these companies are taking advantage and some of them will keep you really busy for the first few months. I hear that, and then they'll slack you off. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they'll slack you off, yeah. And then I hear it's, I guess, a burden. I'm probably not using specifically that word, but you can feel the heaviness and the conversation that they realized maybe they were scammed or you know whatever, that feeling of not making as much if doing what they were doing Absolutely Well.
Speaker 4:I love that they put a task force. I didn't even know that this task force was going to happen.
Speaker 1:Task force.
Speaker 4:To look at it. That tells me someone and I guess it really comes down to it started probably with the California, the dockyards, right Like that's where most of this started was in. California at the ports, the ports when those people are, those are in leases and lease purchases. And boy, they're just getting scammed left and right.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're getting scammed left and right. Yeah, I mean they're paying for their trailer usage when they pick up a container, Not a trailer, a chassis. So these containers come off the ship and they go onto a chassis. So they see a trailer that's designed to hold these. So they're paying for chassis usage. They have all kinds of fees that they're paying and they're sitting in line for hours at a time waiting to get loaded. It's a racket.
Speaker 4:It really is. I saw a report where they were saying some of those people are doing like less than $100 a day is what their take home is yeah, it's insane, it's ridiculous, it's truly ridiculous.
Speaker 1:So when you saw this article you said you kind of had a pit in your stomach or in your throat and you know kind of thing. But then you read it. So why that initial feeling?
Speaker 4:Well, so, like that's our company, we lease trucks out as operational leases. So, like you, can lease a truck and bring it to a motor carrier. Our approved carriers right now are FedEx and Panther, but we're trying to add more carriers and when we say approved, it's a carrier we know is going to pay their bills. There's a lot of carriers out there that, oh yeah, come join us, we'll come work with you, and then they don't pay their bills or things get tight and they stop paying. So these are vetted approved carriers. And again, but we're working on it, so you can get your truck, you rent it from us and you go and run for that carrier and you're an owner-operator. The cool thing about it is because these companies have no assets. That's not true. They own trailers.
Speaker 1:That's all they own.
Speaker 4:They don't own any power units. They don't know what it costs to operate your truck. They don't own any power units. They don't know what it costs to operate your truck. They don't know how much you spend in fuel. They don't know any of those details and so they own none of those themselves.
Speaker 4:So they are equally distributing the freight amongst all the trucks, as opposed to like okay, you've met your quota, so we're going to slow you down and we're going to focus on this person over here. They don't do that Right, and so that's how our business operates is we're leasing equipment to those carriers and to teams and small businesses that want to run those, and then we also have a very small program that we want to grow bigger, but it is a work in process. That is the lease purchase aspect of it, which is we have a truck that we want to get rid of.
Speaker 1:Why would you want to get rid of it.
Speaker 4:So you get rid of trucks for two reasons, right. One of them is they're a nightmare problem child and you just get rid of it.
Speaker 1:You dump it. You dump it, you get rid of it and you let that be someone else's problem.
Speaker 4:The second reason is because we are a rental, lease based company, we need to have attractive equipment and that usually means low miles. So when we have a truck that gets old enough or has enough miles on it, we then tend to get rid of it. We sell it or for the people that are in our program and we know and we do credit checks and all that stuff on, they can have the opportunity to do a lease purchase. And then what happens is we keep that truck in our fleet but we set them up on a monthly note and then, once that's paid off, they own the truck. And so again, we don't own the work aspect of it. We don't own the freight Either FedEx or Panther does and so the teams are able to do whatever they want with the truck and kind of run their business that way. So this ruling doesn't affect us. But again, the title, the headline did. That's where I was like oh no, I don't want that aspect of our business to go away, because it's really cool, because we do have.
Speaker 4:You know, they talked about the small business. They found out that most of these small carriers I'm sorry, most of these mega carriers don't lease purchases, don't give you the option to grow your business. We've got several fleet owners that have started their business by lease, purchasing a truck from us, from us. We've got a few people that I can think of that are more towards retirement age, who have at least purchased a truck, paid their houses off, paid all their vehicles off. One guy he's a buddy of mine just paid off. He bought a brand-new Chevy Yukon High Country or something like that Beautiful. He told me all about it. It sounds like an amazing car Paid cash like that Beautiful. He told me all about it.
Speaker 1:Sounds like an amazing car, pay cash for it.
Speaker 4:Came in, worked the system, lease purchased the truck, paid the truck off. We've got two or not two, probably four or five teams that have paid their trucks off and, because of our discount program and our maintenance program and everything, they still operate their trucks with us and their carrier because they like what we do. But they own their truck outright. We don't know anything about it, it's completely them. They've worked the system and done it. So it's a good program that I believe in and we've got a lot of people that stand behind it and say, hey, look, this actually works. It's really nice. But when you look at some of those other mega carriers it's like no it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a segment of our business and we're not doing the things that you mentioned the mega carriers are doing. We're not marking up fuel.
Speaker 4:Correct, we pass that through.
Speaker 2:We pass that through, so we're passing through the discounts that we're getting on these things straight to that team.
Speaker 4:Upwards of $1 a gallon is huge. Yeah, that's huge $100 every time you fill up your truck as a discount? Yeah, as a discount.
Speaker 2:That's huge, huge. So we're not doing things to try and make money off these drivers' backs. We're selling them the truck or leasing them the truck at our cost, basically.
Speaker 4:Yes, there's a little markup on the lease payment right. Yeah, obviously we're in business to make money, but it is a reasonable market rate. It is not a like. I've seen some of these people. They're like, oh yeah, we take the, the truck costs us and then we add on $500 a week and that's what you pay, and it's like, holy cow, $2,000 a month in interest, like interest like that's obscene.
Speaker 4:Yes, like that's insane none of us none of us would agree to a deal. No, that was that kind of money. Yes, there's lots of predatory stuff out there like that and and that's not our market, it's not what we do. So again, I was nervous that like, are we going to get put out?
Speaker 4:you know, sometimes the good companies have to go away because the bad companies so I was nervous about that, but again reading the article, you see see that that is not ours. But what I really thought was cool was that OIDA agreed with the findings and they actually went further and said we've actually been lobbying about this for years. We've been saying this is a problem, but nobody would ever listen to them.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 4:And then there was another one, I can't think of who it was. They also came back and said these companies oh, I'm sorry, it was the president of OIDA. He said predatory lease purchase agreements prey on trust, leaving drivers financially and emotionally broken. Like how brutal is that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's horrible, lose a lot of.
Speaker 2:how brutal is that? Yeah, yeah, it's horrible.
Speaker 3:Lose a lot of good drivers that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the industry that was one of the things, the industry as a whole is losing drivers because they're fed up with what's going on and they can't imagine how they can do it.
Speaker 5:If you can't make money why do you keep doing it? Why do?
Speaker 2:you keep doing it exactly I did.
Speaker 4:Like that the task force pointed out like what they want is a congressional mandate to make this illegal right, but they did point out that they had several things that they could do that if Congress doesn't play ball. That I thought was pretty interesting. One of them was FMCSA oversight. They're saying the FMCSA needs to focus more on these programs if Congress doesn't make them illegal Right and really look at things like pay and safety and anything like that. They also want people to keep better records, like these motor carriers aren't being. They're not keeping very great records about all these lease purchases that they're doing.
Speaker 4:Sure and I think part of that is because they don't want any governing agency to see it. But now they're saying that that's part of the conversation is to have FMCSA take over that portion and make those carriers see that you have to submit all the details. So, we have to see and that also kind of correlates with Department of Labor enforcement and making sure people aren't abusing this lease purchase program to kind of like hide what really should be classified as employees right um and it makes sense if you, if you own the truck and you have a driver in it and you're giving them the freight and you're saying run this, you must do this.
Speaker 4:You must do that even if they're paying for that truck that's an employee relationship. That's something that they're looking at as well.
Speaker 2:And you can't do a lease purchase with one of these carriers and take that truck wherever you want to go.
Speaker 4:You're stuck with that carrier, you're stuck with that carrier, and that is one nice thing. Our trucks with the two carriers we work with, you could cross-mingle them. They do work with both. They have their strengths, some are better than others at different things, but they do Both of them. You can cross-do those trucks.
Speaker 1:I just want to piggyback on that in case you're watching this podcast to get yourself some research. If this is what you want to do, you cannot run freight for Panther today and FedEx tomorrow the way you said that cross-mingling. I just want to make it very clear. It's one or the other, it's not. We're running freight for both.
Speaker 1:It just depends on who gives us the freight that day, so that question actually came up tonight in one of my last phone calls and there was some confusion and I'm like, no, you've got to pick one or the other that you're going to apply for and then that's who you do business with for a duration of time. Now again, I guess you feel the grass is greener elsewhere, but again there's an application process and the whole.
Speaker 4:You have to do it all over again and that is FMCSA rule Correct. You can't be a driver for two different companies. You have to have your drug testing all of your hour of service, and everything goes through one carrier.
Speaker 1:You just kind of said that and it just made me think that some people might think if you can pick up a load for FedEx today and Panther tomorrow.
Speaker 6:But no, that's not the way it works, kind of like Uber Eats and DoorDash they all will sit there with everything.
Speaker 4:But that's because they're unregulated.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so they can do that. They're not operating under a DOT number.
Speaker 1:There we go. That's what it's all about.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and it's interesting, like because pilots are the same way. I don't know if you remember last season, I think it was there was a pilot that got fired from Virgin Atlantic because they were also flying for, like, turkish Airways or something.
Speaker 1:Oh, turkish Airways or something oh.
Speaker 4:So when they had off days at Virgin, they were flying at Turkish when they were at?
Speaker 3:yeah, and vice versa. Ooh, that messes with like hours of service type stuff. Hours of service, absolutely, because pilots have that same rule and they're like you can't do that, so they got fired from both airlines. Oof yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:Hopefully he had a good-. I've been with a 401k or something I mean rest periods are there for your safety right, they are.
Speaker 4:Like we talked about a couple weeks ago. I remember last weekend the doing drugs and driving across the country in one straight shot.
Speaker 1:That's dangerous, it's super dangerous.
Speaker 4:Same thing with pilots. I didn't even think about it when you said hey, let me correct it. I'm like I didn't think I said anything wrong, but I didn't even think about it.
Speaker 2:It did come out in a way that it did, it could be misconstrued.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. After you said that, I'm like, oh yeah, Cause in my head I'm thinking like I've been in this business for over a decade. So to me it's like, of course, you can only run for one carrier at a time. It never would occur to me. You can do both. Now there are companies FedEx loads and they pull Ark, best loads, sure, but you're driving for Covenant and they're carrying those other carriers over Flow Freight, right, they're not. You're not then driving for FedEx, and then you're driving for UPS, and then you're driving for.
Speaker 1:Old.
Speaker 4:Dominion, You're driving for Covenant and you're picking up those loads for those carriers, so it is a little bit different. I could see how people could be confused and thinking like if Highfield was its own authority, then you could pick up these. But it's not.
Speaker 2:That's not the way to operate. The authority part is where it comes in there. If you're driving for Covenant as a Covenant company driver and you're hauling a FedEx trailer, well, FedEx brokered that freight to Covenant.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:And Covenant's running it under their DOT number and their authority. Absolutely, covenant and Covenant's running it under their DOT number and their authority. It's no longer a matter of in the public eye. It's not a matter of this Covenant guy is calling FedEx. I have this load that Covenant has and we're running it under our insurance and our DOT number. And not as a FedEx. Fedex didn't dispatch that driver, that load.
Speaker 4:Absolutely so, like, for example, if that truck were to get in a wreck and you know, everybody sues trucks, that's what they do If they went it's got a FedEx trailer but it's a Covenant truck they would sue Covenant.
Speaker 1:Correct Because they're responsible for the safety.
Speaker 4:FedEx would say we didn't know.
Speaker 2:part of it If that cargo was damaged, Covenant's insurance would be on the hook for that cargo.
Speaker 4:That's now in Covenant that being said, we don't condone suing trucking companies. I recommend trying to work with our insurance companies. That's one thing I've actually found. We get hit. Our trucks get hit by other trucks. We're in that same boat. We have so many trucks running all over the country. We do insurance claims all the time with other people's insurance because they hit us. I can't tell you how many bumpers we've had ripped off of the front end of trucks from just parking lot issues.
Speaker 4:The thing about commercial insurance is a lot of times they're super easy to work with. Like I feel bad. Some people are like, oh, I'm going to get a lawyer. They get a lawyer and it's like if you had just talked to the insurance company, you would have made more money because you didn't have to pay the lawyers to do all that. So if you ever are in that situation, I would have the conversation with the insurance company If you don't hear what you like get a lawyer.
Speaker 4:But the insurance company, commercial insurance companies they're used to it, they're used to writing big checks, they don't think twice about it. We had a claim today. It was $42,000. They're used to writing big checks, they don't think twice about it. We had a claim today. It was $42,000. We sent them all the documentation and they wrote us back immediately Like all right, thanks for doing everything. We've got our approval. We'll send you a check, wow.
Speaker 1:Like commercial companies are, but I think it's part of the business right it is.
Speaker 4:They know, they know their product. If you, those guys on the cars, it's hassle, it's a lot of like, a lot of ricking. You know whatever Commercial companies, they want it to go away. They're just like here's a check, bye.
Speaker 1:And it makes it a lot easier, in my opinion, if you think about it. There's so much I'm going to call it science, I don't know what other word to call it On how we're driving these vehicles. You know Putting the brakes on here you have to allow for so much because we're so heavy. Or how you back into a parking spot in a truck stop. You have to set it up with the way that the pendulum works in a Class A vehicle. All of that A car doesn't have all that. Okay, you might drive an SUV which is a little bigger and you have to navigate a tight parking spot, but I think part of the industry, in my opinion, there's so much more that maybe they just don't have that problem.
Speaker 1:I don't know where I was going with that but it just feels like there's so much science, and science is not the word I'm looking for, but there's Statistics of it. It's not a simple vehicle to drive. It's not four wheels, 20 feet long, or however a car is 10 feet long. Whatever your sedan is, it's just not simple. Sure are like okay, statistics show that, on average, over the course of the last umpteen years, these accidents happen because it just happens.
Speaker 2:I think to Patrick's point too $42,000, we got your information. Here's your checks on the way. Well, if they decide they want to fight that and not pay $42,000, how much are they going to pay ultimately, when the lawyers get involved? Sure, on their side as well? Yes, because they've got lawyers on staff and those lawyers are being used all the time. But if everything has to go through the lawyers and everything has to be litigated, that costs them that much more money At some point it's cheaper to pay. You've got a repair bill from Johnny's Tra trailer shop.
Speaker 2:It's very it's yeah, this is how much can cost to repair this trailer. Well, they want to fight it. It doesn't make sense. If that's the actual cost, pay it, because again it's going to cost more once you get lawyers involved to pay your lawyers their, their, you know their, their fees, and then you end up paying a forty two thousand dollars anyway plus the lawyer's fees.
Speaker 4:I'll tell you what was interesting. Eric and I were in Denver back when we were driving so it's been several years now and his aunt at the time was an insurance adjuster a commercial insurance adjuster and she mostly did property damage. So that could be like a car drove through a house or it could be a neighbor's tree fell on their property or out in Colorado, someone did something that caused us not to get as much water as we were supposed to get, because water rights are such a big deal out there, so hearing all the stuff she had to say.
Speaker 4:there's formulas on everything I think about. There was a movie that came out and I actually really liked it a lot.
Speaker 1:It was a great movie.
Speaker 4:And how much is a life worth? We watched it. That was with Batman, right, michael Keaton? No, no.
Speaker 1:It was based on 9-11. That wasn't Michael Keaton, no, it was based on 9-11.
Speaker 5:Oh, it was. I think it was. It was Michael Keaton.
Speaker 1:Yes, but it was based on.
Speaker 4:We'll get our fact checker and we'll have that information it was based on how they came up with what the lives of 9-11 victims were yes 9-11 victims and the insurance companies.
Speaker 1:instantly, it was almost, it happened, like it was almost it happened. It was an amazing movie. If you've not seen it, we've watched it. Yes, and but how much is a life worth?
Speaker 4:I do recommend, and there was a formula yeah, if you're at a truck stop over weekend and you're like what would we watch if you haven't seen it, look it up. It's based on true facts. Yeah, it's based on a true story about 9-11, but those same principles still work across the board, with anything. My fact checker did just say it was Michael Keaton. The original title is what Is Life Worth, but the actual name of it is Worth. Yes, it was good, I'm Michael Keaton. Did you see him at the Oscars when he was the head? Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito, which, of course, is Mr Freeze and the penguin.
Speaker 4:And they were like Michael Keaton was in the audience and they were like talking about him and they came for shot over to him and he just has this like mean growl in his face or whatever. I loved it. I thought it was great, but that's a squirrel. Yes, Sorry If you're going to release Squirrel let's just say, beetlejuice 2 did not disappoint. Beetlejuice 2 was actually really fun. I enjoyed it a lot. It was not as good as Beetlejuice 1.
Speaker 1:No, it wasn't, but, it didn't but it was very fun.
Speaker 4:You know what I like this. You know for so long these sequels have sucked, but like 2 or whatever it was was great. I love the original Coming to America, but not the remake. The sequel was awesome. Beetlejuice 2 was great. Dumb and Dumberer was the dumbest, most horrible movie I've ever seen in my life. I love Dumb and Dumberer. It is in my top 10. I adore the movie. The sequel is unbelievably horrible.
Speaker 1:I didn't mean to squirrel us.
Speaker 4:But I am excited about all these sequels that are actually good, anyways, so Worth Worth. So yeah, these insurance companies, they all have these formulas and they've figured all this stuff out. So you know, I don't know pro tip, the other thing, I saw an article, actually when you said this to me that relates to this a lot and, as you all know, we are in the midst of a giant change for the US. We just got a new president, a new old president.
Speaker 5:Returning president.
Speaker 4:Returning. We rinsed and repeated. No, we didn't. We rinsed, hung up to dry and then repeated. And he is obviously putting his cabinet together and the US Senate just confirmed Sean Duffy to become the president I'm sorry to become the secretary of transportation. And he didn't win by a majority. He won by an overwhelming majority, a great stance of bipartisan voting. Everybody loves this guy. Did y'all see anything about this? No, oh man, everybody loves him. Chairman of the House Committee on Trans-State Infrastructures said he's confident under the secretary's leadership, we can improve America's infrastructure by focusing on improvements on core projects like roads, bridges, streamlining project delivery which means getting it done faster and getting the department back to the fundamental missions of the federal transportation programs moving people and goods safely and efficiently. And they've really been like everybody's singing his praises. Again he got a it, it. It wasn't like a uh, it wasn't. What's it called Uh when everybody votes?
Speaker 4:all the same way, no, all the same way.
Speaker 5:It wasn't.
Speaker 4:it was not unanimous there were 22 people that voted against him. Um, but it was a huge majority.
Speaker 2:Well, here's how big this is. The American Trucking Association president and CEO and also the president of OIDA are both praising this guy and they usually butt heads. They don't like each other, they do not like each other, but they're both seeing this dude's praises.
Speaker 1:So does that mean, indiana is going to get completed?
Speaker 2:I just meant Indiana, not a specific road, all of Indiana.
Speaker 4:When you look at something like Indiana, it's interesting because the Department of Transportation, the federal DOT, they'll give Indiana all this money and say do this, but it's up to Indiana to run the project. Sure, Indiana's the whole state's under construction.
Speaker 1:I'm like they run the project forever.
Speaker 4:Forever. It'll be so nice when it's done.
Speaker 1:But they'll just start over.
Speaker 4:I know I feel like Kentucky that whole stretch from Louisville to Nashville not Nashville, but the Tennessee state line. They redid all that All those years Eric and I were driving. It was constantly under construction but it's three lanes of beautiful concrete. It's great If you've driven it lately.
Speaker 1:It needs to already work, oh my gosh, it needs redone, it's like they forgot to yes.
Speaker 4:It's like they forgot to like site prep the dirt or something.
Speaker 1:It's just like boom, boom boom, they didn't pound it good enough, or whatever they do with their little you know what I'm talking about they pack the dirt before they lay the.
Speaker 4:They didn't do that They've got air pockets and it's lumpy Something wasn't done right.
Speaker 2:I was on 270 eastbound today, leaving Fida coming back towards Columbus, and you know that stretch of road.
Speaker 1:I've been on that stretch. Can we just say hot mess express.
Speaker 2:Speaking of Hot Mess, they were out today doing hot asphalt patches Nice, just patches, they were the other day too, when we went out there.
Speaker 3:They're still working on that same section.
Speaker 4:What I like is that they're patching the patches. It's like Patch Adams.
Speaker 1:You come in from the west wherever, let's say Indianapolis, whatever that direction and you come in and you hit that section just before, like Hilliard Rum Road or Plain City, and all of a sudden it's like every 10 feet and it's like 20 miles. It feels like Stuff with patches.
Speaker 2:They were patching the patches again today.
Speaker 1:So now it's going to be da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's kind of already that.
Speaker 2:It's like a train passing fast Click-a-clack-a-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Speaker 3:That's how it is.
Speaker 4:Which you know if you're in a like, if you're in one of our big heavy straight trucks it.
Speaker 3:It's like it's crazy. So do you go down the road, going uh, so you can get the vibration like you did when you were a kid.
Speaker 4:It sounds like you're yelling into a fan.
Speaker 5:Oh yes, that was fun.
Speaker 4:That's exactly what it sounds like, no it's crazy but no, it's Truckload Carrier Association. They are excited, so they said they were looking forward to improvements in the automatic braking stuff, improving safety, hair follicle testing, which they say they're talking about hair testing improvements. Are they not using hair testing for drug and alcohol clearinghouse?
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you that.
Speaker 4:That blows me away. Well, you know why they don't? No, because it's expensive.
Speaker 2:That's why they don't. No, because it's expensive. That's why they don't All right.
Speaker 1:As a recruiter. That is probably one of the top questions when it comes time for that question. I guess, and people ask are they doing hair follicles? Some people naturally shave, I guess, just because that's what you do. So if they're going to go for that type of testing, they need to be prepared for growing their hair out Well, but you don't have to use hair on your head.
Speaker 2:You can use underarm hair or body hair as well, no comment there, mr Clean.
Speaker 4:So my question is If you're a swimmer, you don't have any hair. That, yes, I'm a kind of shaving yes, right.
Speaker 5:So my question is he's a swimmer? If you're a swimmer, you don't have any hair, that's true.
Speaker 1:So from a recruiting point I always say that's up to the carrier.
Speaker 4:Correct, yes.
Speaker 1:However, what determines if, based on whatever you're doing here in your article, what determines pre-employment not just a random, but a pre-employment drug screening, how they decide if you're just doing a urine test or a follicle test, hair follicle or maybe both.
Speaker 2:Is the FMCSA determining that? I've never asked that question. The FMCSA requires a urinalysis for drug and alcohol or a breathalyzer test for alcohol. They do not require a hair follicle test.
Speaker 1:For pre-employment For pre-employment or for random.
Speaker 2:So a carrier can go above and beyond what the FMCSA requires, and they can require a hair follicle test.
Speaker 3:I suppose that's in situations, maybe, where they've gotten something that says, hey, this person's been doing something and they've maybe passed a previous year analysis.
Speaker 1:How does a carrier decide that, yeah, is that a random Hair follicle? A random, or that's a specific?
Speaker 2:thing Again as a pre-employment. The carrier can go above and beyond what the FMCSA requires.
Speaker 1:Pre-employment got it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, same with a random I would think too, if they got a sample, for example, like if you and we've had this happen a few times If you get a sample and it's like too watered down, right, so it can be by mistake, this is not necessarily you're trying to cover something.
Speaker 4:You just went to the restroom, you're feeling great. You jump in the cab of the truck. You get the phone call. Hey, we need you to go do a urine test and you're likeani, you chug it, you go there. Oh, they find out a couple of days later. It's too watered down. A lot of times they'll just have you go again. But sometimes if they're like, oh, something was funny, you know it wasn't just watered down, but like the temperature wasn't right or the color was off or something.
Speaker 4:Then they may take it a step further and say okay, well then you know, let's do hair follicle, or I mean blood testing is always an option, but that's super invasive it is funny.
Speaker 1:Is that really something they do?
Speaker 4:I'm sorry, a lot of times in accidents like if you if you're in the hospital, yeah if you end up in the hospital and you're unconscious, they'll do. They'll do blood, but they're already getting your blood out.
Speaker 1:Learn something new today.
Speaker 4:But they're already getting your blood out.
Speaker 1:Learn something new today?
Speaker 6:Yeah, but that's you're unconscious, that's usually not Sure, sure, and for pre-employment you can also get multiple tests out of the same thing. So you're getting the urinalysis for drug, and then you can also, because for FMCSA you also have to check for high sugar. Yes, so that also comes out of your urine.
Speaker 4:Correct my hair follicle thing. Every time I see someone talk about hair follicle it always makes me just laugh. There's a musical artist in Louisiana, very famous, and he loved his cocaine.
Speaker 1:You've talked about him before.
Speaker 4:And he has a nickname. He's that amongst people who know.
Speaker 1:Not publicly known's amongst people who know.
Speaker 4:Not publicly known but amongst people who know. And so he got in trouble for it and served some time in jail and then got let out on probation and they were like, why are you? Doing cocaine again, Like you shouldn't. He said, well, because I have to go get follicle tested, so he shaved his body. He's like that way they can't, and they're like you shouldn't. He said, well, because I have to go get follicle tested, so he shaved his body. He's like that way they can't, and they're like you idiot.
Speaker 1:You still have follicles, even if you shave your head.
Speaker 4:And he's like ah, whatever, went got randomly selected to go get a follicle testing.
Speaker 1:They pluck his nose.
Speaker 4:They plucked a hair from somewhere and put him right back to jail.
Speaker 1:From somewhere.
Speaker 4:And so he spent another couple of years in jail and then got out and he's been clean ever since, which is great, because he's actually a fantastic musician. I'm glad he got clean, but yeah, it was a trip. Every time I see a hair follicle, I always think of that. So, I will say this you put a bunch of weight on.
Speaker 1:That's good Snacks.
Speaker 4:Snacks are good he used to be a little skinny guy. And then they are pushing for expanded trekking parking facilities, which I think everyone, if you spend any time on the road, you know we need more spaces to park.
Speaker 4:It's been something that's come up a few times. Safe places, absolutely, and you see some places trying, like outside of Memphis. There's a few places, like when you're heading into Arkansas, where they have some big parking spaces, right, but there's no services. Yep, they might have a porta potty, maybe, but at 2 o'clock in the morning I'm not walking to that port-a-potty because there's nothing else there. There's no security nothing.
Speaker 3:There's no light in some of them.
Speaker 4:A couple lights, but not much.
Speaker 1:It's a sketch, the truck parking place club that we've talked about before from Matt's.
Speaker 4:They've been growing like wildfire.
Speaker 1:My email because I follow, I'm subscribed to their emails and they've been growing like wildfire and maybe we should get their link back up. But I'll get that to you, but anyways, that's another option. And I'm super excited that they're an entity or a business who have just grown and realized there's an issue with truck parking. They're the ones that use maybe people's ranches or dilapidated whatever.
Speaker 4:There's all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1:But they're using all sorts of parking lots. But they also share on their app like does it have lighting, does it have garbage disposal, does it have security gates or a security guard. I think it's a great, great program and if, if, vince and I think we're out there I would definitely be utilizing it more. I mean, obviously I signed up just to promote their business because I think they had a great thing to offer, and now, watching all of the emails I get on a daily basis they're growing like wildfire and they're finding those vacant areas to offer to truck drivers I think it's a great program.
Speaker 4:I remember when they first came out and we met them at Matt's.
Speaker 1:We did.
Speaker 4:I thought like this is a cool concept, but you know what's going to happen is someone's going to leave urine bottles and there's going to be this and it's going to. I don't know if it's going to sustain itself. Sure but it's not only sustained itself, it's actually grown.
Speaker 1:It's grown.
Speaker 4:And they're doing really good work. And it reminds me there's a boondocking app. So boondocking, if you don't know, is when you have an RV and you stay somewhere free. You don't pay anything to stay overnight. So, like, walmarts are usually pretty friendly for boondocking and stuff, but there's all kinds of places all over the world, all over the country, that have those and a lot of those apps are very similar. They're like you can stay here in this city and they can leave reviews. I was there three nights ago and they now have a trash can or you just got to tell the owner you're coming. Here's the phone number to call them and let them know and whatever. And it's cool to see that kind of stuff on a commercial level.
Speaker 4:Yes, Because, you know, rv places aren't necessarily truck-friendly, and to see it on the truck side, is great, Sure, sure, and I would think that the parking club gosh.
Speaker 1:I wish I could remember their name.
Speaker 4:Is that not it?
Speaker 1:Is it parking club? It might be, but I think that they're vetting. I would assume I'm assuming I don't remember asking them when we were at Matt's, but I would assume that the places they're finding are rated for truck weight, Whereas I think your boondocking, I would be a little nervous. Am I going somewhere where my truck might sink into the dirt?
Speaker 4:Absolutely Well, even with the boondocking thing. That's something I talk about is because you think about camping.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:Camping can be so many things.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:You could be camping in a pop-up trailer that weighs 2,000 pounds.
Speaker 1:Right, yes.
Speaker 4:Or you could be camping in a 45-foot Prevo that weighs 40,000 pounds. And it's heavier than our trucks.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 4:So they do talk about that in the apps of like trailer only, or you can put a big truck here, our big RV here. I'm hoping they're doing the same thing.
Speaker 1:My fact checker, let me know it is the Truck Parking Club. There you have it.
Speaker 4:Good people Check them out.
Speaker 1:We enjoyed meeting them in Matt's a few years back, two years.
Speaker 4:Yes, going back to the article yeah Boy, we are squirrel-like crazy.
Speaker 1:That's okay, if you are here for linear.
Speaker 4:We're the wrong people for that. I did like what Oida said. They praised Duffy, since he's been around this world for a while, and they said he's demonstrated his interest in addressing regulatory burdens affecting small business truckers, which obviously, since we're in the small business trucking world I guess that's the way you put it anything that can be helpful to that. I did see somewhere in there they were talking about he was working with our lobbying for no logs or paper logs, no ELD mandate for small trucking business and at this point that seems like I don't think it'll ever go back to that I don't think so either, but it at least shows.
Speaker 4:At some point he was like I see this as a bad thing and I want to help out, so hopefully he continues that. I mean obviously again bipartisan support. I think it's pretty obvious. Our political nation is divided, as ever. To get everybody to agree. It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1:Do you need paper logs if you're a farm rancher kind of guy? And you're taking the hay from 12 miles that way up to the barn over here.
Speaker 4:So it depends on the state. So Ohio has this in Columbus and I had it down in Louisiana as well. Their rules were a little different but very similar Basically if you were within 75 miles of your domicile, so 75 miles of either your license, 75 air miles of your domicile, so 75 miles of either your license, 75 air miles, yes, 75 air miles of your domicile.
Speaker 4:Then it could be like I've seen a lot where it gets a little confusing, like is it the address on your CDL? Is it where you live? Is it the? Location of the facility Sure, then you don't have to log At all Paper ELD Nothing business then you don't have to log At all Paper ELD.
Speaker 4:Nothing. Which is why, if you look at Postman, don't log Amazon vans, don't log your concrete mixer trucks that are around your city. They don't log. The dump trucks aren't logging Garbage men don't log, it's because they're within that domicile region.
Speaker 4:Now that is the local region there, others that that do require it. I I've been on city buses before that have little omni tracks units in there and they're logging the hours of the bus driver. Uh, and it's a city bus. So it just depends on the state in the in what their rules are are paper logs still a thing?
Speaker 1:let me ask that question only I don't.
Speaker 4:I don't think as a primary source anymore. I think paper logs from my understanding and if I'm wrong, feel free to drop a comment.
Speaker 3:I believe paper logs are strictly backup at this point, so I just did some.
Speaker 4:Google search.
Speaker 3:No, I had to go through all these little classes and things.
Speaker 4:Oh, you did. Yes, that's right, I had to go through all these little classes and things.
Speaker 3:Oh, you did. Yes, that's right. And if you?
Speaker 1:are only driving now. I got to remember.
Speaker 4:I thought it was like 350.
Speaker 3:Now that you talk about it. I do remember taking that class. It's only like seven days or eight hours Now I can't even remember but it's like a really short amount of time. Then you can use paper logs. I think it was only like eight hours.
Speaker 4:But that's with a. From what I understood, that's with an electric failure.
Speaker 2:Right, right, if your EOD fails you can use paper logs for up to seven days, while you try and get it repaired. And you're also required to carry seven days of paper logs in your truck at all times Vacant, blank, blank.
Speaker 4:Thank you, you are not allowed to have anybody living in your paper logs.
Speaker 1:On your paper logs I meant blank. Yeah, yes, blank paper logs, if I can clarify real quick one thing.
Speaker 2:You said yes, please. If I can clarify real quick one thing you said regarding Duffy's support for possibly trying to get rid of paper logs, or bring them back. Bring them back. Yes, I'm sorry, Get rid of the ODs. He's expressed an interest in support of a wider petition to provide relief to small business truck drivers from electronic logging device mandate. So not completely. He's not trying to get it really completely just for small business truck drivers. Small business truck drivers, who knows what that could mean.
Speaker 1:Every time you say Duffy, all I picture is Patrick, duffy, patrick, yeah, sorry.
Speaker 4:Oh, I think of the Duff beer. Sorry, that's funny.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let me ask you this what's your stance on a small business? Now I'm talking, mom pa, Like very tiny maybe just across the state and back Like Louisiana, and back kind of thing.
Speaker 5:Just you know state up and down sideways.
Speaker 1:I want to finish talking Kind of thing Like what are your thoughts on just paper logs, More maybe on a 10-hour shift, 9 to 5. Okay, 7 to 6 in a state. There you go. That's my question. What are your thoughts on paper logs for something like that versus ELD? Not that I don't think ELD is the best, because it's all right there. You click, click, click and you're done. Who wants to write and draw graphs?
Speaker 4:What's the question?
Speaker 3:Can I yes?
Speaker 4:Ask the answer. Your Honor, Ask the answer.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:Who wants to go?
Speaker 1:to paper logs when you've got ELD. Literally you log in and it does it all. I don't want to get the ruler out and a pencil and this and that, so I'm going to I was correct.
Speaker 3:You can use only paper. You do not have to wait for your ELD to break If you are only doing 8 days or fewer In a 30 day period. 8 days or fewer.
Speaker 4:I knew 30-day period. Eight days or fewer, that's what it is eight days or fewer, Okay gotcha.
Speaker 5:I knew there was an eight in there somewhere. Gotcha, there we go.
Speaker 3:Okay, now sorry, back to your question.
Speaker 5:So, my thought on.
Speaker 2:The reason that people are trying to get an exception for small businesses is the cost of the ELDs.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right, so it puts an undue burden Maybe I shouldn't say undue. It puts a burden on small companies to have to maintain ELDs. The really frustrating thing is when these companies go with these inexpensive ELD systems and then they're found by the FMCSA to not be doing something correctly Correct, and the FMCSA gives you 30 days to find a new one. And you've got to scramble and you've invested all this money in this system. Now you have to find a new one and invest all this money in a new system. Right, so the better-known, better-maintained, better-qualified ELDs are out of the price range of smaller one, two truck fleets.
Speaker 4:Sure Right I get that, and some of them aren't even practical, Like if you want an Omnitracks like one Omnitracks unit in the service is ridiculous.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's cross prohibitive.
Speaker 4:Sure, if you go with something like Motive, it's a little more cost effective, but it's still incredibly expensive and it has to be installed. They do break and we do get them repaired and, because we work with these carriers, they repair them for us, sure, but we're paying a rental fee, so it's like a satellite box. Yeah, a satellite box.
Speaker 1:It is or a cable box on your TV.
Speaker 4:When it breaks, the cable company sends you a new one, so it's like that, but it's still crazy. I mean, you think about so our trucks? The cheapest version of that is about $35 a week. So what's 35 times 52? Because it's every week is $1,800.
Speaker 1:Our fact checker is over there.
Speaker 4:That's $1,800 a year. After it's been installed, we still have to add the installation process on it, versus paper logs, which are $5 or $6 for a month. You kind of see the burden there. Again, depending on what you're hauling, it may not be that expensive. Now I know California is one state. I believe that they have some very lenient farmer rules. Yes, because when you're out in those orange fields your local distribution may be 200, 300 miles away or almond.
Speaker 1:Or almond Sure300 miles away, or almond, or almond, tomato, or garlic, or garlic yeah, we've got them all. Or wine.
Speaker 4:Well, not wine. Wine would be close. Grapes, grapes, grapes would be close to the wine right.
Speaker 1:Maybe Generally yeah.
Speaker 4:So they do have a lot looser laws when it comes to that, but they are the rarity and that's only because they're such a tall state.
Speaker 1:Texas may as well, but I don't know. Like for cattle hauling or livestock hauling, Possibly but even a lot of them.
Speaker 2:That's an even different category.
Speaker 3:Trying to hook that ELD onto a horse is really hard it is.
Speaker 4:And then there's trucks that haul coal and things like that. There's a whole coal lobby. Or oil Even further down in Texas it's kind of weird seeing all the oh yeah, the oil field stuff. They're like what is a lawn?
Speaker 5:What is a?
Speaker 4:lawn. So I mean they're like you go home when you can't keep your eyes open.
Speaker 1:Seriously. So my question is this guy's bill, I guess let me circle back around.
Speaker 2:So that's a positive thing that maybe he's advocating for paper logs.
Speaker 4:He's not necessarily advocating for paper logs. It does sound like maybe he's looking for financial assistance, even.
Speaker 2:OIDA, the Owner Operator Independent Drivers Association, has petitioned to the FMCSA to provide relief to small businesses. Confirmed or even put forward as the Secretary of Transportation, he was a member of Congress and he signed a letter to the FMCSA expressing support. Now the way I read this is when they say he signed a letter, it means others signed that letter also. Sure, so it wasn't just him saying this, but he's supporting this petition.
Speaker 1:It's like a tax break or relief or credit or something. If you have to buy Omnitrax or a clink or whatever they call it. Yeah, so okay, I get it.
Speaker 4:Which is fair. The government does it for other industries, for other things. They'll say like, hey, we're going to require this compliance.
Speaker 1:It's going to cost you money.
Speaker 4:So if you get in now, we'll help you with that Now, if you get in after that, it's a cost of doing business.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I've been looking to here Texas, california, ohio, iowa all are no logging within 150 air miles.
Speaker 4:Doesn't matter what state. So in Louisiana I thought it was 75 per side and I think maybe in Ohio they do an aggregate of 150 or something so like.
Speaker 1:So you can go out and back.
Speaker 4:So like in Louisiana, if you imagine it, you can go 75 in a circle Diagonal would be 150, right, okay.
Speaker 1:Diameter would be 150 miles right.
Speaker 4:Okay, diameter. Diameter would be 150 miles.
Speaker 2:But I think maybe here in Ohio you can go 150 out Right, so 300 would be the diameter Correct I did know there was some weird thing about that Circumference kind of thing, but everybody else requires
Speaker 3:you to log or they allow you not to. Everything that I yeah, I mean if you go outside that 150 mile radius.
Speaker 4:The other allow you not everything that I yeah, I mean if you go outside that 150. I mean the other states.
Speaker 3:The other states, though, I didn't look at those those are just the main ones we had talked about the bigger states. Yeah, like texas and california, how we said, they've got which california makes sense, because they're tall well.
Speaker 1:Also, though, most of their where they're harvesting to where they're delivering the product to. Let let's just say tomatoes that's what I saw a lot of or garlic, but most of that is they just picked it up in a field and now they're just running it up by five to the distribution or the cleaning or wherever they warehouse it the Heinz factory. Whatever they do with it. So to me, that strip of where they're growing and doing all of that was well within the 150.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Like you're not going, even if it took them five hours to get there. Sure. They're still within the 150. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well.
Speaker 4:And those trucks are going slow because 55 miles an hour and they're those doubles with those weird looking trailers. Yep, yeah, yep.
Speaker 5:I've had to do paper logs before. I just want to say that Old school I started on paper logs.
Speaker 1:Oh, mine was orientation.
Speaker 2:Jerry can teach a class on paper logs.
Speaker 1:Jerry, you actually started. How long did you do paper?
Speaker 4:logs he started paper logs.
Speaker 3:Before that Before that it was.
Speaker 4:Papyrus Stone and.
Speaker 6:Chisel, trust me. Whenever the ELD went down, don was looking at me because I was having to fill out his log, because he had no idea.
Speaker 1:Because he started on.
Speaker 6:ELD.
Speaker 1:We had a tutorial at Panther's Orientation. Literally, that was the only paper log I did.
Speaker 4:Literally that was the only paper log I did. My introduction to ELD was our logging period was at FedEx and it was sitting through the orientation. They talked about it and I remember being like they really want us to draw a line.
Speaker 1:A straight line we had a ruler in our truck.
Speaker 2:We had a ruler in our truck for the just in case. I think it was a Schneider ruler that I got from my trucking school. We had a ruler, so that those lines were perfect.
Speaker 1:Could you imagine back in the day I'm loosely saying this pulling in somewhere and setting your parking brake and making all your adjustments with the ruler before you got out and fueled or had to go to the bathroom?
Speaker 3:No, they did it all at the very, very, very, very end.
Speaker 1:I know I said I was loosely saying that no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, oh, I'm sorry, I'm telling you Listen, I've got friends who may or may not be sitting here and they will tell you about three logbooks.
Speaker 5:No.
Speaker 4:And you just had to. You didn't erase and modify, you just did one logbook and it ran that schedule and then a different logbook ran a different schedule. And then a different logbook ran a different schedule Jerry, you didn't do that, did you, I would never call
Speaker 1:out who it is.
Speaker 4:No, Jerry did not do that Jerry did not do that.
Speaker 1:Jerry's a logbook. Jerry did use a ruler. Can you at least affirm?
Speaker 6:to that Absolutely yes, I used a ruler, did you?
Speaker 2:really.
Speaker 1:Did you use a?
Speaker 2:pencil no Black ink, Black ink.
Speaker 4:There you go. Do you remember the carbon paper on the backside of it too?
Speaker 6:Put it this way, I had to sit down. Fedex gave out the log books with the little carbon paper and I used to hate it because if you didn't line it up, it never would transfer correctly and the lines would be all over the cross.
Speaker 6:And then, on top of that, whenever you get done doing all that, when you're done with the run, there was no sitting down with your phone and taking a picture. You had to put all the paperwork together in a trip pack and go into the truck, stop and find the yellow box no.
Speaker 3:A trip pack box, a? What box? A trip-pack box? You basically mailed it.
Speaker 6:And it mailed back to FedEx, oh, so it took overnight. They would get it, then they would process it and then they paid out Jerry, how old are you?
Speaker 4:So, no, what happened at the end of the day? He's not the only one.
Speaker 5:Patrick and I started out that way. We did that, you did that, you send stuff via mail.
Speaker 1:Yes, snail mail.
Speaker 4:Oh, man, and I remember missing the freaking deadline. And it's like oh man, it's not coming in on this check. Yep, like, oh, it would be so frustrating Because they would literally like you'd put them in the box and then the truck stop employee and you were going to a truck stop and they didn't have one.
Speaker 5:Oh, oh they didn't have one.
Speaker 6:You're like trying to find one and scrambling.
Speaker 4:At least when we started, you had the TripHack, had an app so you could find a location that had one.
Speaker 6:I didn't have a smartphone when I started.
Speaker 4:Eric didn't either. Eric had a freaking Nokia when we started and I had this iPhone, a Nokia iPhone wasn't even invented.
Speaker 6:When I started.
Speaker 4:You think he's joking?
Speaker 1:No, I know he's not joking.
Speaker 4:Listen, his phone was bolted into the console of the truck and it was. It was just a CB, so the truck's employee would walk outside, use a key, open it up, take all the trip packs, put them into a FedEx envelope, which I thought was hysterical.
Speaker 1:Put them into a FedEx envelope. You're like can you just put that on my truck? Put them into a FedEx envelope. Which I thought was hysterical, yeah, put them into a FedEx envelope. You're like can you just put that on my truck? Where do I need to take it? Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4:Put it in a FedEx envelope, seal it up and they had a pre-printed label, obviously and then the FedEx guy would come and grab it and overnight it back to Trip Pack and Trip Pack would then scan everything and send it to the different companies where it needed to go.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a time ago.
Speaker 4:Because nobody had scanners when this stuff came out yeah. Like the fact that TripHack had a warehouse with scanners. Ooh, of course, eric did kind of the same thing. Remember those days he worked for Capital One Bank, and look at his face.
Speaker 5:That's a long time ago, huh he scanned it and processed checks right, no, that's a job.
Speaker 4:You scanned it and processed checks right.
Speaker 5:Yes, through the machine. Remember back in the day.
Speaker 3:That's when people could yeah.
Speaker 4:You could write a check when you could kite checks. Is that what you're about to say?
Speaker 1:Do you know? You have like three or five days before it cleared this place will do it in two days.
Speaker 3:This place will do it in five, so I can write this to cover this.
Speaker 5:It was so weird, the whole South Louisiana, probably Mississippi and Alabama too. All their checks showed up at the same building every night.
Speaker 1:Truck, loads of checks. Wow, what a day.
Speaker 5:You can't imagine, how much.
Speaker 1:I bet you it's not the same quantity nowadays.
Speaker 4:They close the place. Well, I'm just saying Anywhere, because checks are still viable. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just don't think a lot of people are doing that.
Speaker 2:Even when I called to get them back to that warehouse. They're all working electronically.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you take a somewhere, it's coming out right away, it's immediate yeah.
Speaker 1:Like you, come right to check at Walmart, but they run it.
Speaker 4:They run it and give you the check back.
Speaker 1:And give you the check back.
Speaker 3:Unless you go to a small town where we had, like I would say there's probably about 40% of the customers at the town that I used to work in.
Speaker 1:You live in, yes, in Atlantic yes.
Speaker 3:Writing checks, writing checks. And it was the same old that went in the bank deposit and went to the bank the next day you weren't electronically scanning? Nope, you didn't electronic them when.
Speaker 4:I worked at Regions Bank back in the day, even back then, which was after he was already out of his company, out of Capital One, we had imaging computers, and so we'd get the night drops, those deposits, and that was the first hour of business, was just doing night drops, and then we'd open the branch. So be there an hour early, then we'd open the branch, and, but during night drops, you know, count the cash, do the deposits for that, and then, um, run the checks and our little scanner, right there the thing, would scan them and send them. Even then, though, there was a couple day delay yeah now it's instant it's
Speaker 4:instant it's crazy how far it's come, because I do remember that.
Speaker 1:I do remember like writing a check and then and you're like tomorrow's deposit or the next day's deposit, what I never did, that, oh really, I know mom put the fear of god in me over that, so I never did. She's like you'll go to jail and I'm like okay, I'm not doing, I'm not writing bad checks, but I did.
Speaker 4:I do remember like sitting there going like I don't know how much money I have. Will you please cash the dang check, so I know how much I have left in the account.
Speaker 1:Oh, you said you weren't balancing, you weren't keeping a lot.
Speaker 4:No, Mom balanced the checkbook to the penny and let me tell you, after years of sitting in the living room with bills and checks and everything, all around us. Yes, and mom with her register Her register and going item by item, with the adding machine.
Speaker 3:And checking in the middle column, remember the adding machine. I still like to use those. They're great, they're awesome. I'm not knocking them.
Speaker 4:I'm just saying that's what we had and the feel of the key. Yeah, it's like the old school keyboards, oh man.
Speaker 5:It's like the old school keyboards.
Speaker 4:Oh man, nothing like them. So after doing all that for years, I'm like I'm good, even for the business. We pay someone. I'm not doing that crap, I am not doing it. And of course now credit cards and everything, sure.
Speaker 1:I never use my bank account. I haven't balanced a checkbook in a hot moment.
Speaker 4:I never use my bank account. If you look at my bank account, it's like direct deposit from this company. Then it's this credit card bill, that credit card bill, direct deposit. This credit card bill, that credit card bill, that's it. Yeah, like I don't use my bank account for anything anymore, which is weird. When I was a kid, debit card like yeah, the times Paper logs.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, paper logs.
Speaker 5:Paper logs.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, paper logs.
Speaker 5:Paper logs.
Speaker 4:I was just going to say Do you remember going from ATM card to debit card?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 5:That was a game changer.
Speaker 1:Game changer.
Speaker 4:Game changer Mom was ticked Because, because the ATM card Came in a sleeve, yeah, and the debit card didn't. Oh my goodness, remember those days, jerry, I didn't. Yeah, how long did you Remember those days, jerry? I didn't. How long did?
Speaker 1:you run paper logs for Jerry, Roughly Approximately how many years he still does?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. He's got a bunch of them in the Acura.
Speaker 6:Acura.
Speaker 4:Gosh Like 15 years maybe.
Speaker 6:No, no, only Joe, 14 years. I was probably on paper. You started on ELD. I'm looking at Don for those.
Speaker 4:Fact checker. Fact checker.
Speaker 6:Fact checker yeah, so probably three years.
Speaker 1:Wow, I bet your mom has some stories. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she taught him the three logbook trick. Yes, I could tell you a story off camera.
Speaker 5:Oh fantastic, Can't wait.
Speaker 6:I am a driver, so I never did anything legally.
Speaker 1:Mama Boogie, we won't hold that against you.
Speaker 4:So this is why we do not support Elida's. Except for small businesses. We know for small credits but we believe in the ELD mandate.
Speaker 6:I would much rather be on ELD.
Speaker 3:It is way easier, you don't have to think Make sure you're the one logged in and go and push a couple buttons I used to hate stopping and then figuring out Because you had to update your logs Within three hours.
Speaker 1:Every three hours. So if three hours, Okay.
Speaker 6:Every three hours. So if you're fueling and all that, I mean you do it and then you start driving, you know, and then you've got to stop and update your logs. Well, with ELD I would drive seven hours before I did my eight-hour break and not think about it, or even more than that.
Speaker 4:My 30-minute break Excuse me Even more than that 30-minute break, excuse me Even more than that, when Eric and I started, there wasn't a 30-minute break.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I'm not familiar I remember driving my entire like 10, like 11 hours.
Speaker 1:There's no 30-minute break. Okay, I'm so new to the industry.
Speaker 4:Driving 10, 11 hours straight. No, it's great, you get your first wind.
Speaker 5:Yeah, your second wind.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And your third wind, I'm sure Without stopping the vehicle, yeah.
Speaker 6:Wow, Mr Fat Checker over there, he would get behind that wheel and I'm not lying, that truck did not stop for nine and a half hours.
Speaker 1:So he started before that happened. Yeah, the mandated law.
Speaker 6:Yeah, he didn't have to do a 30.
Speaker 1:Wow, I don't know anything different, of course, oh it was. I don't know, I don know anything different.
Speaker 4:That 30-minute break and it came in hard, remember it came in. You had to have two 30-minutes between the hours of 8 and 2 am or something like that. It was something stupid.
Speaker 6:It was like 2 and 5.
Speaker 5:Which was detrimental for him, for Patrick, because he was a nighttime driver Completely killed us For your 34?. So I'm over here getting restarts and refreshes and everything, and he can't because he has to keep driving at night.
Speaker 4:It was brutal.
Speaker 5:They finally got rid of that. We never switched schedules.
Speaker 2:What they're talking about is to get a 34-hour reset you had to have.
Speaker 4:if you can explain again the time you had to have at least 34 hours of, and in that 34-hour span you had to not drive during 2 am to 5 am on two different days. So because someone in Congress said you know people need to sleep at night because that's when you sleep best, no, so even though for the entire week I've trained myself. You're up from 7 to 7. Nighttime worker. I mean, that's what I do myself. You drive, you're up from 7 to 7.
Speaker 5:Nighttime worker.
Speaker 4:I mean, that's what I do.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 4:I sleep during the day. I now have to conform to this ridiculous rule. It's one of the few times I've actually seen the government go back and go like that was a mistake. Sorry, Sorry, guys.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 4:Thank God they got rid of it.
Speaker 5:It was brutal. It didn't last too long, it was what a year, a year, year and a half, something like that. It fell off quick.
Speaker 4:And, of course, the 30 minutes has gotten looser and looser, so 30 minutes used to be too like absolutely nothing could be done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, strictly off-duty.
Speaker 4:Strictly off-duty, and now I think they allow fuel.
Speaker 2:It's changed Everything. We To be on duty, on duty time for even unloading, and unloading counts as your 30-minute break, which makes sense, it does.
Speaker 4:Because really, what's that 30-minute break doing there? It's waking you up, yeah, it's getting you blood circulating and waking you up. So if you're like unloading a truck, or if I'm getting fuel at a fuel island, or if I'm going inside and getting my snacks, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Taking a quick shower on the 30. As long as you're not in the fuel bay.
Speaker 2:In the fuel island?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, no you can't be in the fuel island.
Speaker 2:Well, you've got to pull forward.
Speaker 4:Oh no, you just stand there and you get your driving partner to get the squeegee, and they just you know, scrub you down right there.
Speaker 3:There you go. That's funny.
Speaker 5:Sometimes just taking the 30-minute break would make you tired.
Speaker 4:Sometimes it did more damage than it helped. It's weird because I just drove a truck back. We've had a truck in California for three or four months, nobody's fault, but a headlight caught on fire. It's the only time it's ever happened. Very rare, very rare. A couple hundred trucks 12 years. It happens One time. So they had to order a hood. The hood never came in so they had to end up re-fiberglassing the hood. It was a big deal, so it's finally done. Last week I went out after the recording and flew out to California, picked it up and drove it back Four days on the road, had a great, freaking great time. I mean like.
Speaker 1:You went through some states you haven't been through in a hot moment.
Speaker 4:So when Eric and I drove a truck the line of business we were in we typically were out in the desert. A lot Spent a lot of time out there. So I picked up the truck up out in California, out in Fontana, and in the middle of those winds holy cow, I understand now why those houses were catching on fire left and right. If you had a little tiny fire with those winds, they were no. If you've driven through LA, you're familiar with LA traffic 35 miles an hour, 25, 10, 0, negative 5, whatever. Backwards. Yeah, we were going 45 miles an hour and there was no traffic because the winds were blowing so hard. Every 18-wheeler and box truck had to go slow so we didn't get blown over, it was nuts and got in the Cajon Pass If you've ever been there, it's I-15 in the mountains, it's actually really pretty.
Speaker 2:Just climbing out of Los Angeles.
Speaker 4:Just climbing out of Los Angeles, it's pretty, and about halfway through there the winds died down and had no issue with the winds ever again, but just getting up there and then, once you're, on the other, side of that. You're in desert.
Speaker 2:And you're on the other side of that. You're in desert Right, and you're in desert through Vegas and through— Up into North Vegas, just past North Vegas where you get into Arizona there.
Speaker 4:Yes, and then I go through the gorge, which, if you've ever been through St George the gorge, the Virgin River— Beautiful, it's beautiful. It's one of the prettiest spots in America that I can think of. Are they doing construction through there still? No, not when I was there. So it was nice. Went through all that, all through Utah. Utah is an amazing place to drive and growing up as a kid I didn't know that I knew Utah was a great Salt Lake and I saw pictures and I'm like I'd love to drive a car really fast on that. But other than that it looks kind of boring. It's like a land speed record. But when you drive through Utah, utah north and south is beautiful.
Speaker 4:It is such a pretty place to drive and then made Utah, made my way through Colorado, through the Rocky Mountains, on I-70, which was a risk this time of the year. But, I checked the weather out. They weren't calling for any storms or anything. I did get snow right before Denver, but that was pretty fun going through all there, all the mountains, the mountains are just majestic. If you haven't driven the area, if you're thinking about driving a truck or whatever, you probably will get there at some point. It is so cool, it's breathtaking.
Speaker 2:The river that runs alongside the I-70.
Speaker 4:Yes, and what's really cool about it too. I didn't take advantage of it because I was really trying to push hard to get home and driving solo, you try to maximize your hours, but they actually have several pull-offs. That whole area, the whole stretch of I-70 from Denver to well into Utah, there's several pull-offs where you can actually go and see some of the most majestic, beautiful terrain. You're in high desert, you're in crazy desert mountains, then all of a sudden you're in the middle of Arctic tundra, all in one interstate.
Speaker 4:I think it's the most expensive section of interstate ever built. It's from Denver to where it hits I-15 in Utah. It's breathtakingly beautiful. So I did all that, and then, if you've driven it, you know what I'm about to say. Kansas, then Kansas.
Speaker 5:No, not even Kansas, just East Colorado. Well, there's.
Speaker 4:West Kansas, also known as East Colorado.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:And then there's Kansas, and then you get into Kansas City, goes into Missouri and that whole stretch from St Louis to Denver is Boring. Oh, it's so boring, so boring. But made that trip, it stretched everything and then from there it was on home. But just being out there out west, seeing all that terrain, it just did my heart good. I really really enjoyed that time out there.
Speaker 1:And if you want to do that, you should call me.
Speaker 5:We've got some trucks available.
Speaker 1:At 833-493-4353, or that's 833 Highfield Option 1, monday through Friday, 8am to 6pm Eastern Time. Either myself or Delaney Would be happy to talk to you about the beautiful scenery in the West, or you can send us an email at the the, that's T-H-E Outer Belt. We also respond At gmailcom. No, oh, is it podcast?
Speaker 2:The Outer Belt Podcast.
Speaker 4:Don't do anything else?
Speaker 1:Well, we don't do the opening with the word podcast, but the email is with podcast. The email was created after we established that we were going to use the word podcast, so it's the right, jerry, jerry, what is it? The Outer Belt Podcast at gmailcom Now let me ask you a question. What if I type you an email at theouterbeltpodcast at gmailcom? It won't get to her.
Speaker 5:To me, the word thee is T-H-E-E Biblical, but I love the way Jay says it. Thee thou and thine.
Speaker 1:Aye, aye, aye.
Speaker 4:Thine Outer Belt.
Speaker 1:There's also our website at highfield Trucking, that's H-Y-F-I-E-L-D truckingcom. You can send forms. You can do live chat Monday through Friday, again 8 am to 6 pm Eastern time. Typically it's me Jerry helps me out there. If you want to live chat? I've been live chatting with some people.
Speaker 4:You live chat.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, they're on our website. They ask a question. It comes right now and if I'm not on a phone call I'll live chat you right back and I'll live chat you and then we'll have like a it's kind of like a Facebook messenger or texting. It's really cool.
Speaker 4:I'm going to have to test you on this. Yeah, Real quick. I know we're wrapping up and we're about to go Hit a like and subscribe. If you hate what we're saying, hit that thumbs down. Make sure we know that you don't like it. So thumbs down and then tell us everything you hate about it in the comments.
Speaker 5:Yes, it still helps us.
Speaker 4:But we do want to hear what you have to say. If you have any topics you want us to talk about, anything you want us to discuss, by all means throw it out there at the email or in the comments, or call us and just call Melissa and be like hey, I'm not really interested in driving right now, but I would like to hear y'all talk about the great Muppet and Lucasfilm challenge.
Speaker 1:I liked today's topic. I thought it was great.
Speaker 4:I think we should talk about the difference in Sesame Street and the Muppets.
Speaker 2:We should.
Speaker 4:So anyways.
Speaker 2:Next time on the Outer Belt, yes, but real quick.
Speaker 5:Brought to you by the letter.
Speaker 4:Are, Muppets are.
Speaker 2:Sesame Street characters, actually Muppets.
Speaker 4:And is Eric allergic to them? So here's a question for you. That's the question.
Speaker 2:That is the question.
Speaker 4:Let me ask you real quick. We have to go. We're out of time, we really are, but the audience needs to know. They do need to know how is Jerry doing?
Speaker 1:I heard your lid was found.
Speaker 4:We heard yesterday or last week, we heard about your the great, you know, collapse of 2025.
Speaker 6:We Vince found evidence of the crime scene.
Speaker 4:I got those pictures.
Speaker 1:I did find evidence of the crime. It looked like a lot of coffee, a lot of coffee In the crime scene. I got those pictures, I did find evidence of the crime.
Speaker 6:It looked like a lot of coffee, a lot of coffee.
Speaker 1:In the frozen ice, it's iced coffee.
Speaker 2:We did find your lid. It was supposed to be brought here to you tonight. Unfortunately it was left in the dish drain.
Speaker 4:At least it's clean, thank you.
Speaker 2:Heather washed it for you. I was going Thank you, heather washed it for you. I was going to say you could just leave it in the truck, we could.
Speaker 1:We could mail it to you.
Speaker 2:We could also trip pack it to you.
Speaker 1:That's good, I was going to say we could mail it at theouterbeltpodcastcom, but I don't know that it would make it.
Speaker 4:I don't think it would Probably not, but overall you're doing good.
Speaker 6:Healing up Still a little sore, but I'm good Moving a little slow. No, that's good, it's just sitting in certain positions still hurts.
Speaker 4:Did you at least have someone at home helping you out and making sure you were comfortable during the time, that first day, that first day, that first day.
Speaker 6:Don was nice enough to get my dinner, so after that it was you're on your own.
Speaker 3:You're on your own.
Speaker 4:You'll heal faster if you move. It's true, it's true. Well, if it hurts to sit, stand, do some work.
Speaker 6:I wish I had a standing desk, can we?
Speaker 4:get a two for one.
Speaker 1:Well, if you go, work for FIDA.
Speaker 4:They actually have standing desks at their offices. Fida call me. It's been so great hanging out with y'all. Appreciate it. I love our group therapy sessions. Interesting news that's happening. It's always exciting to see things turning in our world. Until next time, stay safe, make good decisions.
Speaker 2:Don't leave money on the table and keep those rules of turn them Bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 3:Bye, thank you.