Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Escaping Scientology's Grasp: David Miscavige's Luxury, Economic Deception, and the Search for Shelly Miscavige - Scientology Q&A #22
This episode originally aired on April 16, 2023 on YouTube. Due to popular demand, these episodes are also being made available on the podcast.
This episode dives deep into the realities of life within Scientology, discussing the motivations to speak out, financial abuses, and personal stories of resilience and recovery from former members. We explore the complexities of leaving a high-control group and the community’s efforts to support one another in the aftermath of their escapes.
• Discussion of current legal matters and restrictions on speaking
• Personal reflections on the need to share experiences for the benefit of current and former members
• Insights into financial exploitation in the organization
• Behind-the-scenes look at how Scientology organizes and funds its events
• Call to action for supporting the Aftermath Foundation and those affected by Scientology
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Hey guys, welcome to the channel. We're here on a Sunday and we're going to get Claire in here. Let's see there she is there's.
Speaker 2:Claire, hello, hello Say hi to Claire.
Speaker 1:We've got a lot of crazy stuff to talk about today. For all those wondering about the case coming up, we can't say anything about that. So if you want to comment about it in the, in the chats, that's up to you guys. You can do whatever. But we can't really talk about that until, uh, until it's I'm I want to say, until it's over we're not really going to be able to talk about it from our end, cause we don't want to jeopardize anything Um with that. We don't want to mess anything up, uh, for anybody. And then um, and if you do want to, if there's anything that I can share on the channel while Claire's there doing that, I will do so. So if you're not subscribed, hit the subscribe button. So whatever we do talk about, and certainly once everything's done and and we talk about it, then then definitely you're going to want to be over here because obviously we'll go into all the details of all the whatever's happened, whatever we can talk about.
Speaker 1:I wanted to talk about this other thing. I've seen a lot of people in the comments sort of like you guys left so long ago. Why are they still messing with you Like? This is a true fact, we left in january of 2005 and they are spending they've spent millions and millions of dollars on websites, on private investigators, on lawyers, on all this stuff to try to um, to try and not tell these stories and not expose what happened there at the base. And I've seen a lot of people saying like you got away, just live your life, do your thing, and we are doing that for the most part. That is what we're doing. We don't. We're not, we're not on here 24 seven. We do other things.
Speaker 1:But the thing I wanted to make and I've said, I've said this before, and and Claire, I know Claire shares this idea with me but if you were in a place where you were being abused and you didn't think you could escape from, and you were there, for some of these people have been there. We were there for about, you know, between Claire and I, 13 to 15 years. We were at this one international headquarters of Scientology location, the Int Base. But if you were there and you got abused and somehow you found a way out and escaped, would you just go on with your life and just all the friends that you made over the the decade you were there just leave them there, knowing that you know they're likely there's still some sort of abuse happening there.
Speaker 1:I know some people say David Miscavige doesn't work there anymore so he's not beating people up, but the standard Sea Org schedule is 100 hours a week. That's just no all-nighters, no extra time. Just the regular work week is 100 hours a week for about 50 bucks and just that alone. Your body doesn't even have enough time to recover each night from the day before's activities. You know, getting five, four to five hours asleep every single night and working your body hard all day is not a good idea. And there's definitely people like me who my body is pretty trashed for the age that I am, just from all the abuse that for you know for years and years and years.
Speaker 1:So, regardless of if people are getting beat up there, still there still is. Are people there that would like to leave and that don't know they can leave and don't know that's somewhere they could go and we're trying to get the word out. And also people have relatives, some of the people that are there at the base. They have loved ones that aren't in Scientology, that may be worrying about them and want to know what's happening with them and if we can help them in some way, make it so they tell their loved ones hey, if you ever go on vacation or if you ever leave, you can stay with us. Any of these things could help those people have a softer landing if they do indeed get out of Scientology. So that's why we do this.
Speaker 2:We're trying to and the fact of the matter is we did try to just move on and live our lives, and they would not leave us alone. And yeah, and every time, all we were trying to do is help other people that had gotten out, but, like you know, a skilled artist had been sent down to Louisiana and was doing construction and you helped her get a job that utilized her skills and made her tons more money. Like we were just trying to help people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Live our lives and help people.
Speaker 1:And the craziest thing is yeah, the craziest thing is yeah, we got that girl a job. We got her she was making I think I want to let's say she was making 10 bucks an hour doing rough construction like fixing homes in Louisiana that had been flooded out after Hurricane Katrina.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then I got her a job at a place as a digital artist where she was making $45 an hour. That girl went back to Scientology. She did all her steps and got in good standing with after I helped her and paid off her free loan or debt. I I helped her make the money so she could pay them back and so she could talk to her Scientology family again.
Speaker 2:So not, not that we advised her to give we didn't tell her to do that If you really wanted to talk to her mom, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, mom for crying out loud.
Speaker 1:We're. We're equal opportunity helpers here. We're just helping people get their lives started If they decide that they want to go back and they just to be able to speak with their Scientology families. Again, I did fine, great. That's the whole purpose of this. When you're in the Sea Org, you never see or talk to your family. So even if you leave the Sea Org and you still believe in L Ron Hubbard or his nonsense or whatever, okay, I don't care, but yeah, so to me it's kind of weird. We're still trying to help the people that we worked with and also we're trying to bring justice to the abuses and the bad things that are happening at the same time. So that's why we do this. If people are still wondering like, yeah, what 17 years? Yeah, hey, this is my hobby, this is one of my side hobbies. I help people that need help.
Speaker 2:That I try to do whatever I can. Yeah, and the fact of the matter is is it can be difficult for people outside outside Scientology, who never knew anything about it, to understand the inner workings, the terminology and all that. We have a wealth of information about that, so why not share that with the world and expose what's going on? And when the abuses are not going on anymore, we'll retire?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a great point. And that also brings it to another point that I was I was going to bring up is that there have been people that are like, oh, we want the TV show. When's the TV show coming back? Or when's this podcast coming back? Or you know the complication of this, what we're doing. It gets simpler the less people that are involved. Let's just say it that way.
Speaker 1:So when you're doing a TV show, there could be 50 people that are now gonna be involved In doing the video that we're doing today. If we had to do this as a TV show, there'd be an additional 50 people that we have to talk to, that have to shoot it, that have to approve it, that have to do the sets, the locations, the finances. There's so many people that have to get involved and, instead of getting the message out, we have to educate all these 50 people on how all this works, and that could take weeks or months to be able to understand what happened and then to tell it in a way that they think they can edit that and it can get through the lawyers, and it can get through the advertisers and it can get through all those people to make it out to you guys watching right now, it can get through all those people to make it out to you guys watching right now. So we're trying to uh to slim this process down so that we can get as many people, uh, informed without having to spend our time and effort on educating the people that are producing the show, that are going to, that are going to try to get this thing on TV and Claire can attest to this too.
Speaker 1:We've done so many interviews and we've done so many TV shows that they never see the light of day. Because the way it's set up is, it only takes one person to be compromised in that whole chain of 50 people for that show to not exist or never see the light of day. It just takes one person that's compromised and the whole thing's done. And that could be because they got to an advertiser or they got to an executive or they got to one of the lawyers. It doesn't matter who, but any one of those 50 people could blow the whole thing. The way we've set up this SPTV thing, there's five or six different people, and it doesn't matter if they take one of us out. There's still the other people, so they'd have to take all of us out, and that's where we have a better system. And then also, you're getting different points of views and you're getting different stories from different people that worked at different places during different times.
Speaker 2:And there's more people joining SPTV every day as contributors, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're trying to make this. So, amy Scobie, that's a good point. Amy Scobie just started her channel. We'll put a link in the description to her channel her channel, but I think it's. Who is Amy Scobie on YouTube? But we need to get her up to like 10,000 subscribers before the end of April so that she can start rolling on her videos, and she's already got a ton of videos up there right now that she's already produced and she's already got.
Speaker 2:So and Mark Fisher and Janice Grady are about to launch their channel too.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. We're't. We're not unlike scientology. We are trying. We actually are trying to get multiple points of this sort of information stream. Um that if you don't like me and claire in our videos, then you can try amy, or you can try mike, or you can try aaron we won't be offended.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't really. It doesn't really much matter to us how you get the information, just as long as we keep the information getting out there. And you guys got to dig. The Scientologists are the real ones that we're trying to reach, either through their family members, or the ones that are under the radar, or the ones that are secretly watching the radar, or the ones that are secretly watching the Sea Org members that are secretly watching on a device that they're not supposed to have, through a filter that they've somehow gotten around, or they're at a Starbucks somewhere, or however it works. We are trying to get those people this information any which way we can, and the more real we are and the more honest we are, the better chance we have of reaching those people, because they know the people that are in the Sea Org or that have worked at the places that we worked at.
Speaker 1:They know we're not blowing this up. They know we're not sugarcoating this, if anything, even to this day. We are telling you the light stuff that you will believe. We have not gone into some of the insane things that have happened there that are just not even safe for YouTube. We're telling you the stuff we can tell you on YouTube. That won't get heavily. I don't know what you call dinged or demonetized or just not even just taken off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, that's that I'm trying to think. I made a few little notes here.
Speaker 2:We got people from all over the place here. I asked where people were joining us from and I marked some comments to share that whenever you're ready because she worked in Religious Technology Center, which was the same organization that David Miscavige was the head of.
Speaker 1:And she? What was your post there, claire? You want to tell everybody.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, in Religious Technology Center. So it was a few different posts, but for years I was what was called internal executive, which was essentially that's when I was, according to Scientology lawyers number three in command quote unquote because I reported directly to Marty Rathbun, who reported directly to David Miscavige. And so as internal executive I was over essentially HR, staff training, counseling and the finances. So I had to sign all the checks for Religious Technology Center and approve the funds every week and so forth. And yeah, that was my position.
Speaker 1:So Claire does have some knowledge of that as well. In addition, most of the stuff that we were going to talk about today was the things that David Miscavige specifically kind of directed and was responsible for spending money on, just because I guess, if you're Scientology and you're David Miscavige, you can just spend whatever you want on whatever you want, and there's no repercussions At the end of the day. And here's this is the craziest thing David Miscavige is spending millions and millions and millions of dollars on stuff, and he's getting that money from Scientologists. That money is not coming from some nebulous place. Scientologists are making the money and then giving it to him, and then he's spending it on whatever he wants, and I think it might even be a service to those people. This is how your money's being spent. This is when David Miscavige is telling you they're clearing the planet and they're getting everybody turning everyone into Scientologists. This is what he's doing with that money that you're donating, anyway.
Speaker 1:So the first of the things that I wanted to talk about was we had a lot of audio-visual products that we would produce at the international headquarters. We would produce from the 15 years that I worked there, from 1990 to 2005,. We produced cassette tapes that were lectures from L Warren Hubbard, mastered and then copied onto cassettes. We produced VHS videos of L Ron Hubbard and other things. We produced 16 millimeter films, we produced DVDs, we produced laser discs for a while, we produced CDs and then we produced videos. So we produced promotional videos, promotional films and then educational films for Scientology organizations.
Speaker 1:Well, david Miscavige would travel all over the world in order for him to properly check he had to check every single one of the products that I just listed. He would have to approve them before they went to major manufacturing, the final mix down or the final masters or the final print or the final edit, any steps of any of those products. He would be the final approval. And in order for him to approve those products, he had to have a very high end listening room or like audio visual, like just imagine the most opulent man cave you can think of with the most expensive audio gear. And he had one of those at the M-Pace and this room, I think the one at the M-Bass and this room, I think the one at the M-Bass, I want to say it was about a half a million dollars or more, just the equipment in the room, not to mention building it and acoustically designing it and all that. I don't even know how much that cost, but just the equipment in the room I would say it's about a half a million dollars worth of stuff You're talking about.
Speaker 1:You know $75,000 speakers $15,000. Turntable $10,000. Cd player, digital to analog converters, analog to digital converters. They had this guy, very well-known guy in the audio file industry, named David Manley, and David Manley had a company called audio file industry, named David Manley, and David Manley had a company called I think it's called Manley Labs and they had every single possible piece of equipment this David Manley guy ever made. And even some of the golden era guys would modify this guy's stuff or copy it and make their own versions of it at the base. But these things could run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1:These really super, super, like one out of 10 devices, like there'd be 10 in the world and David Miscavige would have. He might have two or three of them depending on what it was and where it was, but so let's just say one of those rooms could cost anywhere from three to $500,000. Well, remember when I say he traveled so he had these rooms all over the place, he didn't just have one at the base. He had one of these rooms in I made a list here, actually, let me see where it was so we had the one in Gilman Hot Springs, california. That's the one at the base. So at that place David Miscavige actually had a few there as well, so he had one in his office in RTC. He had a very nice system there. He also had another office called the what was that place? Where he'd go play cards and chess with people.
Speaker 2:Oh, the officer's lounge.
Speaker 1:He had one in the officer's lounge. Yeah, he had one down at the dining hall. He had a little room. That one was probably like only a hundred K for just a little bit of stuff there. And then and that's in addition to all the millions of dollars in studios at the base where he could go and listen to the thing in the actual studio or watch the film in the theater. But then also at L Ron Hubbard's house at the Imp Base there was a whole nother setup that you could do that there as well. So there was a theater at the L Ron Hubbard house that David Miscavige is the only one using L Ron Hubbard stuff. So all these places are built for L Ron Hubbard and they're sacred and no one can touch them. And well, david Miscavige uses all that stuff like it's his own, like he doesn't care who's going to, who's he going to get in trouble with. So there's another one of those really really nice theaters at the L Ron Hubbard house and there's many really really high end audio setups in the L Ron Hubbard house as well. It's called Bonnie View is the name of the house.
Speaker 1:Anyway, then he also has a very, very modern high-end system at the Superpower Building, or what they call the Flag Building, down in Clearwater. That's the brand new big building that's in Clearwater, across from the Fort Harrison Hotel. He has a whole wing of that building, like one of those turrets on one of the four corners of that building. He has a whole wing of that building, like one of those turrets on one of the four corners of that building. He has that whole wing and he has a very high end office that was designed for that wing. Even when I was still there we were planning that and that I would say that would be a million dollar room, that one there with all the stuff that's in it, all the stuff that's in it. And then he also had another system at what's called the WB. What do they call that? The West Coast building Is that the WB.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that's where the RTC offices used to be there. He had a very high end office at office system there, listening system there. I know because I worked on that myself and I've interacted with that equipment personally with my own two hands. He also another system that I worked on he had at the Hacienda, at the birthing building and that's in Clearwater as well off. Is it Saturn? What's that street?
Speaker 2:Cleveland.
Speaker 1:Saturn something, whatever the Hacienda.
Speaker 2:When you're in this organization, the least of your worries is what street you're on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we weren't big on addresses. I know the base address the base address and I know the Hollywood guarantee building address, but those are the only two addresses that I actually know. I don't even know the apartment. I don't even know the address of the apartments that we lived at. I know what street they were on, but I don't know the address.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I, we knew what they were.
Speaker 1:We lived there for only 10 years, so how would I know the address?
Speaker 2:Yeah, by the way, am I quiet. Some people are saying I'm.
Speaker 1:No, you're fine. Maybe move the mic closer, closer to your mouth.
Speaker 2:Okay, anyway, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, we're only halfway through these offices. Remember, these are anywhere. These offices could be anywhere from 300,000 to 500,000 each and we're halfway through the list. He also had an RTC office at the Hollywood Guarantee Building at 6331 Hollywood Boulevard. There's an RTC. He has his own floor there where he has offices and I think there's a there. I want to say there's also kind of like a swanky L Ron Hubbard residence there in that floor as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and office, and to answer and provide context, birthing is just the C organization term for your lodging and where you live.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I did say birthing From the days in the C organization.
Speaker 2:people like what child birthing place? I'm like no, no, no Birthing B-E-R-T-H.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a naval term. I think it's used in the military and Hubbard just stole it for the Sea. Org.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, then he had. So there's RTC office and there's sort of like an LRH office or suite in the Hollywood Guarantee Building. But RTC has offices there and those offices are very, very swanky and there's a system there. He has another system at the house that's by the, also further down Hollywood Boulevard, where Authors Services is, which is L Warren Hubbard's literary agency that Dave Miscavige used to be in.
Speaker 2:Wasn't it El Cadiz.
Speaker 1:Yeah, el Cadiz. It's the place where they shot the TV show Alias with Jennifer Garner. It's where she lived in the show. David Miscavige bought that whole complex and they have a secret tunnel that goes from those apartments all the way in through the building into author services, where that that, where they own the building that's right next to the apartments. And then he also he has systems as well in UK and I've heard that there's some sort of setup in Africa at this new place. They have some kind of castle or something or there's some kind of place there that he has access to or there's something there. And then there's also RTC offices. Wherever there's an RTC office David Miscavige. If David Miscavige comes there, he usually takes over the RTC offices or the CMO offices in whatever continent that there's a Sea Org sort of like base at that in that continent.
Speaker 2:Did you talk about his offices in the HGB on Hollywood Boulevard?
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 2:Okay. Sorry, somebody saying what about asking here? No, no, I was just curious. Oh yeah, no, we covered, that did. Okay, good, sorry, somebody's saying what about I'm multitasking here? No, no, I was just curious.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, we covered that one, Okay. And then the other thing so he can take over any of those other offices. And then this is as of 2005, when I was still there and I had still had access to these offices and I knew about them. So who knows what he's got now? Und to these offices and I knew about them. So who knows what he's got now?
Speaker 1:He undoubtedly he has some sort of setup at these I almost said SPTV at the SMP, the Scientology Media Productions facility in Hollywood off of Sunset. Of course there's a facility there because that's sort of his home base now and just those studios alone cost millions, many, many millions, maybe most likely tens of millions of dollars to revamp all those studios. When they bought that studio location from KCET, it had been in disrepair and it had old equipment from decades, old equipment there that KCET had used as a broadcast facility. So they pretty much gutted and did everything from scratch there in terms of new equipment and cameras and lights and editing facilities and all that good stuff. So I want to say if he spent less than $10 million on his audio listening rooms, that would be a low, low, low number, and that's just so he can listen to those products that I talked to you about. That's sort of the story that goes around. Well, he's got to be able to check these things in all these different places. Well, you know, you don't need to check it on a $500,000 system.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about that David Miscavige spends an insane amount of money. Besides, you know him personally. If you're a cult boss and people are giving you millions of dollars, you can get millions of dollars. That's how it works in the United States at least, and probably other countries as well. That's your prerogative. If you want to waste the money that people give you, then you get to do that. I don't know that. The people know that. That's what he's. The people that are donating necessarily know this is what he's spending the money on, and some of them might not even care. Some of them might be like he's the man. He's David Miscavige. He's L Ron Hubbard's last loyal soldier, so he can spend the money however he pleases. But some of these people might be going like what the students? Why is he doing that? And that's where this sort of goes into.
Speaker 1:When we do, when we produce these events, scientology has these events all throughout the year. Um, at one point we were doing anywhere from seven to twelve events every single year. That um would be uh, shot like with cameras, with proper broadcast cameras, like the same cameras they're using to shoot the Super Bowl. We're not talking about the cameras we're using, we're talking about these big, giant cameras that take two hands to turn and you can zoom into a football a hundred yards away. That kind of camera that's what they're using to shoot these events that david miscavige puts on. And you say, oh, come on, the same cameras as the super bowl, yeah, the same cameras as the super bowl, like the guys that are when, when you shoot one of these events at least when we did it, we had the same crew that would shoot the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1:We're doing our Scientology events and this is the even crazier part they come in with this truck and the cameras and all the equipment, maybe, maybe a day or two before the game, maybe sometimes it's just a day, but let's say, some of them do it in two days and they set up the cameras and they roll the cables and then they have this thing called a broadcast truck, and the broadcast truck is a giant semi-truck that's just filled with audio and video mixing and editing and switching facilities and all of those cameras that you set up at a stadium or, in our cases, at a hall like the Shrine Auditorium. Or, in our cases, we're at a hall like the Shrine Auditorium, though all the cables from those cameras run into those trucks and they have giant screens and all these different mixers and effects machines and things to play videos while the video walls on the sides of the stage and all that stuff that doesn't come with the Shrine Auditorium. You rent all that stuff and you bring it and set it up at the Shrine Auditorium and, just like they do at these football games, the truck might come in a day or two before they set everything up, they do the event and then they strike it and by morning all that stuff's gone and those people and all that equipment that gets rented. And we would do that seven to 12 events a year and we would rent all that stuff for one event at the shrine. All of that stuff back in the 1990s and 2000s would cost about a half a million dollars 300,000, that's just for the truck, 300K truck, the people and the equipment and all that could be another 200 to $300,000 for everything.
Speaker 1:And now here's the crazy part David Miscavige is not doing it like they do the football game. It's not getting set up the day before and then they're doing the event and then it's being broken down and gone. No, he wants all that stuff there for an entire week so that he can practice doing the event and he can video it and do makeup tests and make sure he looks good and he's not sweating and his eyes don't. He doesn't look like Spock and have his eyebrows going up. And so the Superbowl guys they're coming in. I think there was even an article about how they do the entire Super Bowl that broadcast truck and everything in six days. It's there for a week, Like we're getting it set up on maybe Saturday or Sunday, and then it's set for Monday through Friday. The event's going to happen on Saturday and they break it down Saturday night. Now the same guys that are doing those NFL games are the guys that are working in the Scientology broadcast truck. The same guys, the guys doing the Olympics for NBC are the same guys that are setting up the cameras for David Miscavige.
Speaker 1:Now, I'm talking about 1990s money. Today, in today's money, that truck is a million dollars that week, A million dollars for the gear and the truck and everything. It's a million bucks. And I think to this day Scientology would still be doing that. Except Scientology owed money all over town for renting this equipment and the rental equipment companies said we're not renting you the stuff anymore. And so in the past, I want to say I guess five, three or four or five years Scientology ended up buying all that equipment because they couldn't rent it. The people, the companies wouldn't rent it to them anymore because they wouldn't pay them. And so now they bought all this equipment and they set it up and they're using as far as I know, they're using most of their own team to do these events now and also, to be fair, they're not doing as many events as they used to do because David Miscavige is afraid of getting served, so he's not just running all over town doing these videos and doing these events, but that's just the equipment.
Speaker 1:You're talking about the Shrine Auditorium that's got to get rented or wherever they're doing the event Ruth Eckert Hall that's got to get rented. And then the other thing that's really crazy, and this is where I did a thumbnail. And then the other thing that's really crazy and this is where I did a thumbnail what a Beyonce and David Miscavige share at $10,000 a day. Well, the thing that Beyonce and David Miscavige share is a makeup artist, David Miscavige's makeup artist. His name is Bruce. He gets $10,000 a day for doing David Miscavige makeup. Now, that's the makeup guy. There's another guy, Luke, who does the hair, and he's probably $8,000 or $7,500. And he's just doing David Miscavige, just that little bouffant, that's what he's doing. He's doing that for 7,500 a day.
Speaker 1:Now, David Miscavige's makeup artist used to be a Sea Orc member and when I was still there, we had an order from David Miscavige that we had to get in the guy or the gal or whoever it was, that was doing hair, that was doing makeup and was doing microphones the microphone audio for the president.
Speaker 1:He said find out who's doing the president and I want that guy and I want him or her to train the Sea Org member that used to do David Miscavige's makeup.
Speaker 1:Well, that Sea Org member's name was Sarnie, Sarnie Wiley, and Sarnie Wiley was sent to the RPF because David Miscavige was sweating at one of the events and she had done some other things, Like she tried some new makeup on one time. That made him break out really bad, and I mean she had her ups and downs but regardless, the guy who did the president who trained the Sea Org member, that wasn't good enough. He had to get somebody out. I wasn't there when this happened, but this is the story I was told by somebody who was is that when they were looking for this makeup artist to do David Miscavige, the only requirements were to find out who is doing the makeup for the biggest stars and that are not gay. That's who David Miscavige's makeup artist can be. It can be the most awesome makeup artist, but that makeup artist can't be gay, and that is how they ended up with Bruce and Luke.
Speaker 2:So much for equal opportunity right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bruce and Luke, if you're out there and you're watching this, that's how you got picked you were good and not gay and that's just makeup and hair guys. This guy's got you know $10,000 shoes from Italy and or London or wherever he's going for his shoes and his suits are made by. There's a guy in Beverly Hills. I don't know if he still uses this guy, but he used this guy the entire 15 years I was there. He was getting his suits from a guy named Mr Lim and Mr Lim um had a uh, was uh like he was doing Will Smith and, you know, leonardo DiCaprio and all these big time uh Hollywood celebrities. He was doing their suits and um, and I think he did.
Speaker 1:I think he's done some suits for Clinton, bill Clinton and some other folks, but he's the suit, he's the tailor to the stars and that's also. That was David Miscavige's tailor the entire time that I was working on these events and we would have to pay this guy to to alter stuff or do stuff and it was sort of like all of David Miscavige's Sea Org uniforms, his jackets with the braids and all that those were all custom tailored by this Mr Lim guy. So any suits that David Miscavige had were made by him, and I think he also had some uniforms and some other things made by a Scientology tailor, which was was it Claudio? Was that?
Speaker 2:his name, tiziano's dad, claudio Yep, claudio Lugli.
Speaker 1:Claudio Lugli was his tailor for a while and that's how we know how tall, that's how we know he's 4'13", because Claudio was measuring him. Claudio is measuring him. Claudio's got all his measurements. He knows every part of him. He knows every inch of his body. He literally does know every inch of his body.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not laughing at you. Kelly Copter said oh, mr Lim, whata great name for a suit guy. You know, lim, l-i-m-b. And then Mary Kahn is here and Mary Conn was like which limb was it?
Speaker 1:It's also L-I-M. He is an Asian gentleman named Mr Lim. I can't remember his name. You could look it up. He's got to have a website or he's got to have some sort of you know portfolio of all the pictures of all the celebrities he's done, but it was. I can't remember the name. There was a name of the tailor, I don't remember what it, but Mr Lim is the guy who did it. Anyway, you completely mind wiped me and I don't even remember where I was going with that.
Speaker 2:It was so worth it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, either way, these are just. This is just the stuff that I could just, you know, just list out off the top of my head on how much they're doing this. Oh, and the other thing I was going to say is so let's just say the Scientology is they're using essentially the same people and the same equipment that they're using to do a Super Bowl game. That's the same equipment they're doing for one of these Scientology events. Well, the Super Bowl is getting watched by 200 million people, so your price per person is very low in terms of how that money is being spent. You're dividing it into the amount of people that are going to watch this event. Well, scientology is showing that event at maximum 20,000 people 20,000, maybe 25,000. So you're spending a million dollars an event to show it to 25,000 people. To show it to 25,000 people Like this is what this is how Scientology is catering to these. Are you? Am I still here?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, this weird wifi thing just popped up on my screen Just out of nowhere. As long as we're still good, I'm still good If I, if I go out, text me or something and I'll jump back in, I'll wave, I'll be like hey, get your butt back in here, stop blowing.
Speaker 1:Anyway, um, so they're spending this million, these millions of millions of dollars, and David's scab is just getting his hair and makeup done for 15, $20,000 for 25,000 people so that they can convince these people that they're so big. The reason why we're so big and because we're spending all the it's Hollywood guys. The Scientology is the make-believe cult. They're making out like they've got all these properties and all these people are coming in and we're doing all these events and we're reaching millions and millions and millions of people and the whole world is turning into Scientologists. It's all a big show. It's a show. It's not real, it's fake and they're paying for it. And there's these big Scientology moneymakers that are giving them tens of millions of dollars and they're keeping this thing going, and that that a day on the donations that I'm getting from these big donors. We'll make that in one day after an event. So he's probably making $10 million to to put on one one of these $1 million events or $2 million events or whatever it is. He's making $8 million off those because he's pretending that they're doing all this good work and they believe it, and then they've given him money so he can do the next bunches of events and buy another building that's going to sit empty, and you know so. This is how this is happening and this is why it's hard for people to understand. Well, why are these guys giving them so much money? Because every time they give him money, he shoots another event or produces another thing that makes it look like all that money is getting used. And they got all these hundreds of thousands of people into Scientology and these guys are buying it. These guys are, these guys are falling for it and that is how they've been doing this.
Speaker 1:Scientology itself, when it's delivering Scientology counseling and Scientology courses, is is that operation is bankrupt, but heavily, heavily bankrupt. When we left in 2005, when Scientology says, hey, we want you to do a course, and then you give them the money for the course, let's say you're gonna do your entire bridge all the way up to OT8. Let's say Scientology says we want $500,000 from you to do all that and you give them the 500,000 and then you start marching up the bridge and then you get halfway and you're like this is crazy, I want my money back. They don't give you your money back. That money's gone forever. But let's just say you just are doing it, but you're doing it slow.
Speaker 1:The money that people have paid for things that they haven't yet done inside of Scientology, like if you pay for a course and you haven't done the course yet, that is counted as an advanced payment and there's a special account it's called the AP account, the advanced payment account. That money is supposed to sit in that account until that person does that service account. That money is supposed to sit in that account until that person does that service. Well, I don't need to tell you where this is going. Scientology already done spent that money. They didn't save that money. So when in 2005, when we left, they had $1 billion in advanced payments. So people have been paying for courses and Scientology has not been delivering those courses and the tune of those undone courses was a billion dollars in 2005. So, essentially, if every single person in Scientology said we're not going to give you any more money until we do all the courses that we've already paid for, scientology would immediately be a billion dollars in the hole. So when somebody says, oh, they have $3 billion right now, they might have $2 billion in undelivered services. They might have $2 billion in undelivered services. So if every Scientologist just decided to stop giving them any money for anything and just no, I'm just going to use the money that I have on account Scientology. It would be very possible that Scientology would go bankrupt very quickly because they'd still be spending money but they wouldn't be getting any in. And this is where David Miscavige figured out he's got to find another income source to subsidize everything, because just doing Scientology doesn't do that. Getting people to donate possible that Scientology would have to figure out a new way to get money, because doing Scientology doesn't make money, it's just getting money for free. What is keeping Scientology afloat? Anyway, I think that's enough of that. I think that gives everybody a good amount of information on some of that stuff.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't clickbait. I told you what Beyonce, all those guys are like oh no, that was a clickbaity. That was a little bit of a clickbaity thumbnail there. No, no, no, that was pretty spot on right there, I think. Also, I had to figure out a way to use that shoop. Somebody did Somebody did a shoop of David Miscavige in like a steam bath with Tom Cruz from Top Gun and they, they prettied up David Miscavige and that thumbnail. I think it's the thumbnail, but that video has got on the on the views of videos on our channel. That's one of the top videos, that one with Dave Miscavige all prettied up. So I had to figure out a way to work that into a thumbnail again. And this Beyonce thing was my. I had to open that door right up. So we did that. Because it was makeup too. It was kind of like a no brainer. It's like it's Dave Miscavige with makeup. His makeup artist is 10K a day. Beyonce's got the same one. Let's put those two in the thumbnail together. That's what. Just that's how that came together, folks. And that happened like. Somebody texted me that, like on the way to do this video. I had to do that fast. Okay, we work fast here at SPTV If you guys have questions.
Speaker 1:It looks like we got a bunch in the questions here. This is the only soap opera that you can talk to. Just so you know, if you're watching your stories here and you want to know what's happening in Scientology, uh, you can't. Days of our lives, uh, you, uh. On TV you can't talk to that guy, you can't talk to the guys and the gals on the show. And this one show and this one you can, you can talk right to him. And if you have a question about what happened to one of the characters, you can ask right in the comments and we'll tell you what's going on with that character.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if you guys have questions, we're going to, we're going to get to those and, as always, we're going to try to keep the split pretty even. We do super chats, that's for sure. We appreciate super chats, we appreciate Super Stickers. We love that. I'm not doing this for my health folks. We're trying to get the word out. But Super Chats and Super Stickers they ease it, they let the medicine go down a little smoother. But we also do try to get to some of the other folks. If we see another good question in there or we see a frequent flyer in there that likes to ask questions, we'll we'll do that one too. Is there anything else?
Speaker 2:We have a bunch of great people here. Like I said, mary Kahn is here, kelly Copter is here.
Speaker 1:I saw.
Speaker 2:Amy Scobie is here oh perfect. And Jeff Hawkins is here, and today is Jeff's anniversary of getting out of Scientology, so congratulations, Jeff.
Speaker 1:Great Happy anniversary. Dave or Jeff getting away from Dave? Yes, awesome, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, here's a ton of other people too, so I'm not trying to miss anyone, but those are the ones that I noticed.
Speaker 1:I'm going to do this one. This one came in an hour before we even started the video. I um, it said, headley's relationship is such an inspiration. Oh, and mark, thanks for exposing me to the band dm. Lol, in shock at your story about how petty and sadistic the midget dm was about gone's overdose. Yeah, he was kind of uh shitty about that, wasn't he?
Speaker 2:yeah, that was really, and that was the day after he just had essentially told not even essentially he literally told everyone at the property in a briefing that he sent you back to the base in a body bag.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he sure did. Mark and Claire. I just love you both and thank you for all you do. Got my coffee, let's go. Yeah, these are. These are right. I think that one was an hour before the show as well. People were stacking up in here before we started. I just see all these are pre. Yeah, look at this. I'm just going to hit these guys here. Hello from Columbus, Twin Cities, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Andover, UK, Alberta, Canada, London, Denver. Steve-o Greetings from Northern Larkspur, Colorado, Northern Larkspur what a maniac.
Speaker 2:That's an inside joke For everybody else there is no Northern Larkspur. Larkspur is a very small town. Hello from.
Speaker 1:Wisconsin, Poland, Vancouver, Scotland yeah, we got a West Virginia.
Speaker 2:I saw there was someone even here from Tasmania.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tasmania, germany. Yeah, we have got a lot of people in here. What's this one say CO BILF. I spend Scientology's money wisely. We are still recovering from Mark's theft of $1 billion worth of camera and editing equipment. Yes, exactly, co BILF. Dr Parody account over here. Susie Q DFW, looking forward to it. That was just me saying we're going to do a video today. Okay, let's get to some of these super chats.
Speaker 1:Luis Milne, great to see you both live at a great time. For those of us in the UK, you are both amazing. Yes, thank you. We do try to do these on Sundays. It's easier for me Sunday. I have a day off, so it's easier for me. Sunday, I have a day off, so it's easier for me to do a video during the day on Sunday. Hi from Germany. Thank you for considering our time zone. You're welcome. Yes, golly gosh, darn it. You two. I wasn't aware how much we missed you guys until you weren't on the air. Glad to see you both back. Thank you, denver. Stevo, yeah, we've just been working. We've been working and Claire has. I want to say Claire has two or three videos of a new series that she's done. Do we want to do? Do we want to play that intro?
Speaker 2:Yes absolutely, and I have four so far four done.
Speaker 1:Four interviews, yes, okay, and I've edited two of those, so we are stacking up this new series that's coming out, guys.
Speaker 2:So we may appear to be slacking off, but we're not actually.
Speaker 1:Well, these take a little bit more to put together, but why don't you go and find some Claire comments to answer while I figure out I can get this video up here.
Speaker 2:Okay, you got the HD one. I did not that I marked as Mark. Use this one. That's what I named it in the folder.
Speaker 1:Oh, you put it in the same place as the other one.
Speaker 2:Yep, but there's a dedicated folder that says hd versions and I named it.
Speaker 1:You gotta send me a. You have to send me a link to that.
Speaker 2:I don't have that okay, so all right, so I'll do?
Speaker 1:I'll keep doing questions. Send me the link and I'll keep doing some questions here, okay all right, bear with me folks sorry guys, we didn't.
Speaker 1:uh, I just realized we have this thing and uh, here, claire, all the best and keep them straight. I don't know what that's about, but okay, fine, we'll keep everything straight. In the sci-fi-esque War Room pic, dave seems to be wearing a Rolex. Given what Sea Org pays, I hope it's fake. Oh no, he. That's another thing that a lot of people don't know. Sea Org members make $45 a week. David Miscavige is the captain of the Sea Org and I think he does make $45 a week, but he also gets a salary from RTC. That's several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, so he can easily afford a Rolex. He's not worried about that. Jefferson Hawken. Today marks my 18th year free from Scientology left 16 April 2005. Oh, so we've been gone 18 years now. I keep saying 17 years. It's 18 years now. We just ticked over another year, yep, congratulations, jeff.
Speaker 1:Yes okay, let's see what else him uh cos response the church's money is spent wisely. We are still recovering from it's. Just another one. This is the church's response has surviving cos made you fearless? You've experienced the worst of life has to offer and survive. Not everyone does. I wouldn't say it's made me fearless, but I would say that it's made us. I think Aaron said it the best we are the most resistive strain of Scientology escapees that there are, because we have been well. First of all, if you're working 100, 120 hours a week, that's pretty hard. If you can do that for 15 years and and keep busy and keep doing stuff and keep productive for 15 years, well, now we leave. Leave. Claire and I both have separate businesses and companies that we run and we I mean I don't want to brag, but we pretty much just lay it out full.
Speaker 2:What do you?
Speaker 1:show. Oh my goodness, sorry You're. You're supposed to send it to me, you're not supposed to.
Speaker 2:I did and I also was trying to be super effective and upload it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my goodness, this girl, like I was saying, we're very busy. But yeah, we're very busy. But if we have to do our normal day job, deal with the kids, the three boys that we have and everything else that we're doing in life, doing some videos in our spare time is hardly, hardly tough compared to what we used to do. So it's sort of all relative. I'm not fearless, I'm just. There's not a lot of things that I do fear because it's not really that hard compared to what we have done.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I still feel when people have asked us so how do you deal with stress? You know people that just had no idea where we came from or who we are, and we're like, yeah, we're good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we, we, uh, we have had, and that is the other reason why it's sort of hard when they talk smack about us on the internet. It was like you were doing that to my face when I was there. Now you're just doing it on Twitter as some troll, and also there there are a good amount of people that are trying to get like Elon Musk to take Scientology off Twitter. That is a that's a zero sum game. I don't think you should worry about that. The same reason that Elon's not going to take Scientology off Twitter because we're complaining about him is the same reason he's not taking us off Twitter because we're complaining about Scientology. It's sort of like whose truth is the truth? Twitter is not the arbiter of what truth is truth. If there is something that is a blatant lie that they can verify as a lie, they will mark it in the community notes or whatever, as this is false. Scientology is very careful about how they word things and how that they, they, they it's called black PR or how they smear us or how they put these hate tweets up to kind of dodge around those rules where Twitter can't really put their hand on exactly what they're doing. So I think if we're just telling the truth about Scientology, it makes it a lot harder for them to lie about us on Twitter and for it to be believable. There are a lot of people on Twitter that find us because of the things that Scientology post on Twitter. So I'm not I don't like the hate and I don't like the Twitter trolls and all that. I'm not saying I support them. I'm just saying it's not the worst thing that could be, because they sort of are proving what we're saying about them by engaging in this hateful and just blatantly dishonest behavior. And we're very straightforward you don't see these guys appearing live on videos and answering questions. That's not happening. We are doing that and we're telling these stories over and over and over again and they're all coming out the same and it's multiple people. Scientology can't even muster up one single person to talk, not one, and we've got like 10 or 15. So if you're in the group of people that are trying to, you're just tweeting an Elon full time. I'm not sure that that's very productive. I'm just saying you can still do it if you want, do whatever you want, but I'm just saying I'm not sure that it's ever going to change Everything that I've heard that he's said in interviews he's not going to take them off Twitter. So I wouldn't even bother wasting your time with it if I were you. Okay, let's get to the next question.
Speaker 1:Could DM change LRH rules completely and allow SO members to talk to SP? No one can question him, can't they? Yeah, that's not really he would. If there's something that's ruining Scientology that he needs to get around, he'll change that.
Speaker 1:Like L Ron Hubbard said for them not to do these events, these events that I just told you they're spending a million bucks each time, seven to 12 times a year. L Ron Hubbard specifically said not to do that. L Ron Hubbard also said don't raise donations. Don't ask people for money and give them nothing. That's criminal. Do not do that in Scientology. David Miscavige is doing both those things full time so he can change the rules he wants to change. Allowing people to talk to suppressives. That's sort of like a rule he can't change, because if they do that, scientologists are going to be like Hmm, that's weird. The rule about the events and the rule about the donations. Only the very, very top level Sea Org members know about those rules and those things that L Ron Hubbard said. So the 99% of other people in Scientology. They don't know that L Ron Hubbard said not to do those things. So the fact that David Miscavige is doing those things, it doesn't really mean anything to anybody.
Speaker 1:Okay, shay says Former Mormon atheist. But this quote for why help others in COS? Greater love hath no man than this that a man laid down his life for his friends. Well, there you go. That's a very apropos quote. Thank you for that, shay. Thank you, yeah, that's a good quote. Greater love hath no man than this than a man lay down his life for his friends. There you go. I didn't know that, but that seems to make sense to me.
Speaker 1:Great quote.
Speaker 2:For the naysayers.
Speaker 1:Prisoners in California make $1 an hour. Oh, sea Org members make less than slave wages. There is a thing called slave wages. Where are my quotes? Slave wages they have in China. The last time I checked, slave wages in China were about, I want to say they were 50 cents an hour and Sea Org members if you average it out, sea Org members make about 36 cents an hour. That's how much I made over the years that I was there.
Speaker 1:Because even though you make $50 a week, it's not a guarantee that you're getting $50 a week. That 50 bucks is sort of like hey, I'm thinking of giving you some money, here's some money. They don't even have to give you the 50 bucks. The 50 bucks just keeps the prisoners kind of like there. So they have a little bit of money. And I want to say in Florida for a little while they were making I think it went to 75 or a hundred dollars a week for a little while and um, and they cut it and it would put it back to the 50 bucks which to me what's that?
Speaker 2:That was while we were still there.
Speaker 1:That no, no, no After we left and we were making all this noise and we were suing them and all that stuff. Yeah, they raised the Sea Org pay, but just in Clearwater. They didn't do it everywhere, they just did in Clearwater. I think it was a test, but you got to dig these guys in Clearwater. They didn't do it everywhere, they just did it in Clearwater. I think it was a test, but you got to dig these guys in Clearwater making a million bucks a week every week. The flag base makes a million dollars a week every single week in Clearwater. The Clearwater facility makes more money than all of Scientology combined Every.
Speaker 1:If you just take that one organization in Florida and add it up and add up every single other organization in the world, they don't make as much as just the Clearwater location. So when they're buying all this property and they're doing all this stuff, they got to spend that money. They can't hoard it. They got to spend it. So yeah't hoard it, they got to spend it. So, yeah, they got it. They were getting a hundred bucks a week but then Dave was like nah, screw you guys, I'm going to give you the 50 again you guys ain't worth a hundred.
Speaker 1:If you were to do, somebody could do the math on this, but I bet you let's just say in 1990, when we got there, we're making 50 bucks a week. If you just raised Sea Org pay based on inflation, I'm pretty sure they should be getting about a buck 15, a buck 20 a week. That's about you know. I don't know what the math is, but you say like average inflation a year. You know 2.5% from 1990. You know 2.5% from 1990, your buying power of 50 bucks is probably like the stuff I want to say the stuff you could buy for 50 bucks in 1990, you probably need about a hundred, a little over 110, 120 bucks to buy today. In today's money, that same stuff's going to cost you 120 bucks. So they should probably be getting about 150 bucks a week. That's probably because the $50 has been that way. Yeah, I want to say it was about the nineties. It used to be 35 for a long time. It used to be 10 for a long time. So they're way behind.
Speaker 1:They should be getting those CERC members, if whatever they were getting when L Ron Hubbard made it, I think it was five bucks a week in the sixties, 1969. It was. I think it was five bucks a week. They should probably. Maybe it was 10 bucks, I don't know. It was also in quid or some. It was also in another format when he first did it, so who knows? Anyway, what is boss baby's daily life Like? It seems like he spends a lot of time hiding out, doesn't have a family life, does he go on vacations? It seems like a very isolated life. Well, you know what? That's a great question, elsie. Did you send me the link to that video?
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Okay, perfect. How did you send it to me? I texted it to you, perfect. Just when I was on the way over to do this video, I was talking with somebody and they said, well, it was Matt Pesch. I'll just tell you, it was Matt Pesch. He was talking with Tom DeVock one time when they were in Florida, in Florida Clearwater, and they were looking. They were where the boats were in the Clearwater Bay, and Matt was like, oh, check out that boat, that's really oh. Tom DeVock was like, oh yeah, we rented that boat.
Speaker 1:David Miscavige rented that boat just so he could kind of go scuba diving and do whatever, just go for a little day trip on this little boat. And they were spending tens of thousands of dollars a day just to rent this boat just so he could go out for the afternoon a day, just to rent his boat, just so he could go out for the afternoon. So David Miscavige I'm pretty sure these days he does have a lot of hiding out to do, but when he wants to go on vacation he goes on vacation just any, like any other rich person. He just goes and does his thing and he has his privacy and and he definitely, I would say, the activities that he would spend a single day doing. That's more than a Sea Org will make their entire lifetime. What he's spending on a daily, like, if let's just say the yacht example, he's going on a yacht out. He's going out on a yacht for, let's just say, $25,000. He's going on a yacht for $25,000. That's more than a Sea or group member is going to make. That's how much in 15 years.
Speaker 1:My social security statement was $29,000 for the entire 15 years. That was the total amount of Scientology income that I received in 15. It was actually more than that. It was like 16 years because I worked at another place before the international headquarters. So I made twenty nine thousand dollars for one hundred and twenty hours a week for 15 years. So you can do the math and that comes out to about thirty six cents. Thirty six cents an hour. Just love your content. I've always been curious about Scientology and you have educated me. Thank you both so much. Thank you both so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for being here. Yeah, that was another thing we were talking about is that when we do these TV shows we have to educate the viewer in the episode. So they have to. We have to kind of get the lingo. We got to kind of set the story, we got to set the places. Kind of get the lingo. We got to kind of set the story, we got to set the places and we have to tell that whole story in a setup like in about 15 in the first act. So in 15 minutes we have to set up everything so that then we can tell you the story and then we can get the reactions. We have to do all that in an hour show.
Speaker 1:It doesn't, it's not workable. We're educating you guys. I mean we have like 80 videos on here. We're, we're we're educating you slowly, over 80 videos and the people that watched all 80 videos, you guys know the lingo, you know the, you know the characters, you know the players, you know everything. It's hard to do that in a TV show format that advertisers are going to, like Tide's, going to put their money on, because some of those, some of that education is either very boring or very horrible or very traumatic. People don't want to hear about that stuff. Rock it out with Kim D. Hey, hey, oh, no, hi, is it hi?
Speaker 2:It's hi. Yes, it's hi.
Speaker 1:Slow and steady wins the race. Sptv is amazing. I enjoy the variety of content. If you need help leaving Scientology, people are ready for you. Absolutely, Absolutely, Thank you. Seeker0628 says I've always had a. I've always been a supporter of people trying to start over and trying to get their lives back. They all need our love and understanding. That's exactly correct. Yeah, we're not trying to beat up the Scientologists. We're trying to educate the Scientologists. And yeah, they're really coming hard at us on Twitter, attacking us, and they hate this and we're what do they call Apostates.
Speaker 2:But what's the other word? They?
Speaker 1:use for us all the time. I can't remember Cracker licking cracker, lickers, whatever they call us. We're just like whatever, we're like whatever, okay, okay, you guys know. Okay, we're here whenever you want to get out. We're still here. When escaping cults. I meant, yes, when escaping Colts. Thank you, deviant. Outcast Me not able to super chat equals. I wanted to ask. Claire got my bobblehead email and additional questions about that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I responded to that. I will respond to your email, thank you.
Speaker 1:Perfect, awesome, good for you. Good, we got it all going on here. Amy Scobie, hey, denver, stevo and Pink.
Speaker 2:Waving. I marked that so you'd know Amy was here.
Speaker 1:Yes, Thank you, amy. We appreciate Amy. Amy is going to be a great addition to SPTV. I'm really happy that she's doing it. She has great content up on her channel right now and she just started in like the last week or two and she's already got a ton of great content over there. So don't we can't forget to put a link in the description.
Speaker 2:I made a note of that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, wes Milby says. With how quickly electronic electronic technology changes, imagine how much DM reinvested to upgrade. Oh yeah, no doubt If he, if he doesn't have the latest and greatest cool gadgets, he's not happy about the project. I would remember when we would do these audio things, like there was almost the same equipment in each, almost almost knocked over my almost the same exact equipment in each office from place to place.
Speaker 1:Just so this, so the same thing would sound the same way. It was almost always the same speakers, almost always the same CD player, the same cassette player, the same D to A converter, the same A to D converter, the same turntables. All this stuff was always the same. And then if you changed one thing, like you'd be like, oh, they just got this new turntables. All this stuff was always the same. And then if you changed one thing, like you'd be like, oh, they just got this new turntable, it's amazing. And then we tested at the base and we get it and be like, oh yeah, that's pretty cool, but it's twenty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 1:To be like, ok, you got to sell all the other turntables and you got to buy all these new ones, and so it'd be this big thing and there's a place at the base that's called LRH's Audiovisual and for short they call it RAV, r-a-v, ron's A-V, and so RAV, at any given time, would usually have about, I'd say, anywhere from a half a million to a million dollars worth of audiovisual equipment that was just sort of in transit or limbo. It was either there for testing, or it was there to be sold, or it was there to get fixed, or it was going to go into LRH's home or it was going to go into Dave's office. They always had, and they had a very, very expensive listening room set up there where Dave would come in and test things that would then become part of his setups. So, yeah, I can't imagine these days, with the amount of, you know, just the advancement of technology and how fast it is, how many just things are just like, oh, I need this now, oh, I need that now.
Speaker 1:Debbie Baker, supersticker. Thank you, debbie. Appreciate it, debbie. Again, supersticker, I love both of you Well, thank you.
Speaker 2:Debbie.
Speaker 1:We love you guys too. You know we're all in this together.
Speaker 2:This is absolutely a growing and amazing community, so thank you.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we're already up to 1500 people in here right now. Nice and we're just about a buck 15 into this thing Doesn't COS own the two hall they're having the events in. They used to do a lot of their events in the Flag Auditorium, at the Clearwater Base, at Flag, the Flag Land Base, and I want to say the Fort Harrison holds like 1,800 people. It's not a lot and it became a thing where we would do events at the Shrine. So we would do the New Year's events at the Shrine and we we do a few other events at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles and I want to say that held anywhere, depending on if you use the balcony or if you had it all open or whatever, it would be like 4,500 or something like that, maybe 5,000.
Speaker 1:They could never fill the Shrine, never.
Speaker 1:There would always be empty seats in the balcony and it would always be a flap that they could never fill the shrine, even though there were more Scientologists in Los Angeles than anywhere else in the world, because you have Los Angeles, you have Orange County, you had all these LA adjacent organizations, so you could get a lot of people to Los Angeles for an event, but they could never get more than about 4,500 people together to watch one of those events.
Speaker 1:And a large portion of those people that would be at the event were Sea Org members and staff members and they still couldn't fill it even with all of them. So imagine that they're holding events at the flag auditorium and they got 1,800 people. They can fit in that thing. Let's even say they could fit 2,000 people. That's not a lot of people when a majority of them are the Sea Org members and the staff that work at that place. So they were supposed to build an L Ron Hubbard Hall next to the new flag building. I don't think they've built that. They're supposed to build like a new amphitheater there where they would do.
Speaker 2:They're building that. Now we have pictures of Bobble Mike there from one of the electricians working on it. What, yeah, I thought you saw those.
Speaker 1:Don't get fired, dude Jeez Louise. We have had people send us space plans and blueprints and pictures of stuff being built and I'm always I'm very cautious to show those cause I don't want to get anybody in trouble. That's working there, but so there's. So they're building it. I guess it's been. They've been talking about building. When we were there they were going to just about to build it any day now and they were raising. You know they probably raised a hundred million dollars to build this new hall. It's going to cost 10. Anyway, did the Truman show resonate with all of you? Yeah, that place is absolutely just like the Truman hall the Truman show, I think. When I first got out in 2005, tori, the woman that Claire just interviewed on her one of her videos, scientology Story Series, she likened Scientology to the Truman show, because everybody knows what's going on, except for you and you don't know.
Speaker 2:The fact of the matter is is I have not actually watched the Truman Show. It was during our immediate blackout years. I still need to watch it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:We were in the crazy place.
Speaker 1:We call it the crazy place whenever we're talking with our neighbors or when I worked at the crazy place.
Speaker 2:But yes, we were in the crazy place, and the other movie that Tori mentioned was Pleasantville, as another analogy.
Speaker 1:Where the black and white people turn to color when they kind of wake up, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mark was the owner of Ed Hardy a Scientologist. No, the owner of Ed Hardy was an associate of somebody that I was working for at the time when I was invited to the infamous birthday party that happened at the Ed Hardy launch party in Hollywood, right next to the Scientology place there. Care Bear 23 says Claire and AA Ron I'm Mark. Aa Ron is the bald guy on the other channel.
Speaker 2:No, no, just read the comment, you'll understand. She's not. She's not talking to you, claire and AA Ron.
Speaker 1:Oh, because you guys are going to be in Los Angeles, Claire and AA Ron. I live in Burbank area and would love to help if you guys need anything while you're out here. You guys rock. Thank you, Care Bear. I appreciate it. Yeah, there's a lot of times in the comments. It's okay, Mike, keep up the good work. I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, that was not one of those examples.
Speaker 1:Yes, lafanda says. Why does COS keep orgs in countries where they don't have tax exempt status, like Germany? There is no way they're getting big donations here. I'm not so clear on why they do that, and there also might be a reason for them to do things in the European Union that they, where they are getting big donations, they can spend money on places that aren't, so that they can sort of spend the money and not stockpile it. It's hard for them to get money in and out of different countries, depending on the rules in that country, so they kind of try to spread it all out.
Speaker 2:And they are constantly still working to gain tax exempt. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They do spend money on lobbyists and lawyers, and yeah, all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:So they could be, you know, they could spend be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in a country where they don't yet have that exemption, where they still want it. I don't think they're going to get it in Germany, but they can still try and spend money on it, Andy Brown says, but they can't afford contact lenses for Mark and the Sea Org live like paupers. Yeah, I would remember. I think contacts I want to say contacts were, depending on how many I was getting were like either $30 or $50 or something like that, and I would get a pair. I would get a pair or a bunch of new pairs, like every year. So I would wear the contacts Like I wore my daily wears that you're supposed to take out each night and clean them and then maybe throw them away after a week or so. I'd wear one pair for five months, Like at one point I think they had fused to my eyeballs.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say that I remember that.
Speaker 1:I'd had them in so long that when I went to the optometrist they couldn't get them out and they had to and I had scarring, and but sometimes I would wear them until they just disintegrated. I'd wear them that long so, um yeah.
Speaker 2:And when you're not, when you're not going home, the the lines kind of become blurred, on a pun intended, I guess, on when do you take your contact lenses out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a lot of not a lot of time to clean your lenses and let them, and let them soak overnight, when you just don't go home, you don't sleep. Yeah, um, what happened here? I lost me. Um, oh, there we go, gary, hey, you two, hey, thanks, gary. Gary morehead starting his own channel as well, getting some stuff going.
Speaker 1:You know what I did I? I talked to gary. He's got some good stuff I think he might even talk about. I shared with him a copy of some of the spy files that had security type stuff in them. So he might even be doing videos about those or we might do them together. I don't exactly know how he wants to tackle it, but if I'm not- out of town. I'll help with that if he needs it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just to correct my previous statement about the amphitheater in Clearwater, the picture we have is the Clearwater Redevelopment Amphitheater. It's that building. They haven't broken ground on the LH.
Speaker 1:Hall. Yeah, I know, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the L Ron Hubbard Hall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I didn't get that.
Speaker 1:They are building one of those in Clearwater.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So that Scientology can do events in their own facility, and I hope they make it bigger than the Fort Harrison. I don't know why they'd have the same one, but I think they want to make it to be like 3,500 people or 4,500, to replace them having to pay the Ruth Eckert Hall to do events there or to the shrine or whatever. Since they're trying to get everybody to move to Clearwater, it would make sense that they would do that, but they've been working on it for millions of years.
Speaker 2:It seems like After this, are you going to show my trailer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got to get it. You were supposed to do questions while I did that. You haven't done that part yet.
Speaker 2:I'll do questions.
Speaker 1:You do this one.
Speaker 2:I'll take over Perfect and let me know before you play it and I'll explain the inspiration for my when is Shelly series.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I don't have the link, by the way.
Speaker 2:I texted it to you.
Speaker 1:I don't, yeah, I don't have it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I have just getting coffee. Oh, I see you texted it from another thing, I found it, I have it Perfect. I see you texted it from another thing, I found it, I have it Perfect. It's from. It says something different.
Speaker 2:I won't say what it's all right, I'm going to take over the comments then.
Speaker 2:So, Kelly O'Hara always knew Scientology was creepy, but Aftermath and SPTV really opened my eyes to the reality. Thank you for all you do and keep up the good fight. Thank you so much, kelly. We appreciate it, and thank you for being here. And so hold on, I'm taking over here. I don't know where you are. You haven't been unstarring them. Okay, almost there, folks, folks, okay, here we go. Alice in Wonderland did you have to pay income tax on the pittance you earned? Yes, we did. We received little pay stubs that showed that of the $50 we earned, something like $4 and some cents had been allegedly remitted to the state of California and the IRS, though we don't. I never actually saw a W-2 that I recall. So no proof of that, all right. Next question here we go, reem C.
Speaker 2:What is the general reaction of public Scientologists to the information presented in History of man? It seems that book would alert people that something is very wrong with Hubbard. My response to that is you don't ever actually compare notes. When you're in Scientology, it's actually forbidden to discuss your thoughts about Hubbard's writings. That's called verbal tech, which is a crime, and you certainly don't ever say anything negative about it either. So there you go. There is no reaction of public Scientologists that you're ever aware of. And Panko, super sticker, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it. Super sticker, thank you so much for being here, we appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Hey, mark, what happened to Darius Wilhair? He is now a public Scientologist, still in and still drinking the Kool-Aid. We actually came very close to breaking him out, very, very close. He was in Mexico and he was almost going to come visit us and then I was, was caught wind of it and it was shut down immediately. So there you go. Next one, chris, on the drums. A couple of weeks ago I asked about a tour of gold on Google Maps. Mark pointed me to the video with Aaron. Just wanted to say thanks, it was awesome. There you go, nice, ah, lathanda Grocklings.
Speaker 2:Claire, you should interview John Oliver for your new series. He has been asking where's Shelley for many years on his show. It would be interesting to hear his reasons behind that. Completely, I will absolutely give it a shot. I have.
Speaker 2:So, while we're on this topic, the inspiration for my series. Where is Shelley? Obviously for the last. Well, since Leah Remini left Scientology and filed a missing persons report and the Vanity Fair article and a few other things, it's become very, in my opinion, it changed the narrative of Scientology dramatically from prior to thatomizes. What is wrong with Scientology in the United States of America today?
Speaker 2:And not only did I work very closely with Shelley, I knew her for 13 years, worked very closely with her for eight years and actually over a four-year period when I was a top executive in Religious Technology Center. I reported to her almost daily. She was running me on my day-to-day work, as it were, and she should be free to leave if she wants to, and I don't believe that's the case. I could easily be in Shelley's position in lockup came very close to it, in fact and it's absolutely not okay and it's important that we keep this question in public view and explore it. So the inspiration for my series was to interview people like myself, of which there are many who know and worked with Shelley on a personal level over many years, and my research that I started doing for this series so far.
Speaker 2:Shelley became a Scientologist when she was four years old same age as me, actually so she has been a Scientologist now for 58 years. She joined the Sea Organization at a very young age and was working on the ship with L Ron Hubbard from the age of 12 and the impact that has on somebody from growing up in it, and that's all the only life she's ever known. Nonetheless, all of that is does not justify her not having the freedom to leave, and the fact that nobody has answered the question, whereas shelly has inspired this series. There you go. Does that cover it?
Speaker 2:well, honey pretty good okay, and before you play the trailer, I wanted to give a special thank you to kelly copter, who helped me put this together, and she did a fantastic job.
Speaker 1:Now, Now, just so you know, I don't have the HD version so. I can't. I can't download anything that you've sent me, so I have the other version that I can play right now.
Speaker 2:Okay, great.
Speaker 1:So is that all you wanted to say about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's see if we can. Uh, can you hear it when I play like that?
Speaker 2:I don't hear anything yet.
Speaker 1:I know that I'm going to.
Speaker 2:Because when.
Speaker 1:I add it. It just when I add it. There you go. It just plays it, no matter what. Let's see. Oh my goodness, I hate doing this when we didn't test it beforehand.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to play it. Okay, you're not going to play it, after all that.
Speaker 1:No, I can't play it. Can you hear it?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, then no one can hear it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So it's all good, I'm not going to play it. I don't have it. If you wanted to play it, you should have sent it to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, why don't I play it then?
Speaker 1:You can do whatever you want. If you have it, play it.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me try here we go folks Hold on.
Speaker 1:She has not appeared in public.
Speaker 2:So now we are ready.
Speaker 1:Shelly Miscavige. She has not appeared in public since 2005. And what happened? Where is we're looking at like 17 years of a person just missing? Shelly miscavige was given into the sole care of l ron hubbard.
Speaker 2:What are you doing?
Speaker 1:Are you playing it?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's playing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't hear or see anything. I'm going to get out and you do it, and I'll come back.
Speaker 2:Okay, her parents when she was 12. This is where shelly is believed to be being held captive. Do you believe that?
Speaker 1:shelly and scavenge is a threat today. Oh, absolutely, she's seen it all. She's been by his side the whole time boom.
Speaker 2:There you go. Hopefully mark shows back up. That is my trailer for my new series. I have many wonderful people participating in it and I and honestly I've learned a lot about Shelley's life. So, yeah, I'm excited and hopefully Mark comes back in here and no worries, if he doesn't, we'll. We'll get back to answering the rest of the questions here. So let's see here. All right, here we go. Cob Ilf Osa keeps trying to convince me. Steve Fabos is Denver Steve-O, but I'm like no way, jose. Yeah, there you go. Way, jose. Yeah, there you go. Tarkina Meyer thank you for all you do to expose the lies. Love your interview series. Claire. Good luck with the trial. We are all sending positive thoughts your way, thank you, and thank you for watching the interview series. There you are.
Speaker 1:Hey, did you play it? Yes, I did. I literally could not hear or see anything and everything was frozen, so I was like I think I need to get out of there. That's okay, sorry, did you play it all the way through? Did I stop it? You wanted to play it again.
Speaker 2:You paused it right in the middle, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll put it up as a separate video on the channel, just to have it as a that. People can go to. Sorry about that, guys. I couldn't see or hear anything. That was happening. I'm excited. I think it's going to be so good. I think I think these will be the. I think this will be the highest viewed videos on the channel, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was just saying I've learned so much about Shelley's life and the the interviews I'm doing kind of gives a cross section of people who knew her at all ages throughout her 58 years in Scientology. So I'm learning a lot and you know, it's just something we're going to keep talking about.
Speaker 1:Awesome, if you want to keep going through questions, I'm just going to unstar all the ones that we've already done, because it doesn't look like anybody unstarred any of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'll keep going. While you do that, just let me know when you're ready to take back over.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 2:All right, somebody Van Halen, aim Van Halen Super sticker.
Speaker 1:Arnie.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Arnie. Yeah, my eyes are tired today, Sorry folks. Patty Parnell, will you do a cooking with Mark and Claire segment for your Yorkshire pudding? That cracks me up. I'd love to, but Mark's not going to be on board with that. So there you have it.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's. I mean yeah, yeah, that's Denver.
Speaker 2:Stevo Osa smells like poo, hi Osa. Thanks for being here, denver, stevo, we appreciate your presence.
Speaker 1:Did you answer this one about? Did you answer that one from Kelly?
Speaker 2:Yes, I did.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then also the one with the income tax.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did that one, and then also the one with the income tax. Yes, I did that one. The Pittens one Yep, pdd, got my BFG book Mex rest, oh, mex rest. At Century City Mall, beverly Hills yesterday and couple next to me at bar saw me reading it. They got up and moved to the other side of bar so I sent them drinks. They were not amused.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's amazing that the book somewhere in LA or in Clearwater and people are like, oh my goodness which is kind of funny that they would even know that that book is that book, because you'd have to really get up close to be able to see what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's do this. Panko. Thank you for the super sticker If I do any one that you think I already did. A couple of weeks ago I asked about a tour of gold on Google Maps. Oh yeah, I heard you say that one. Okay, let's just go. I'll go from the bottom then, if you want to start again. Dana Eads great explanation and great trailer. Claire okay, good, perfect. Yeah, now it looks like we're catching up.
Speaker 2:Awesome, and sorry for the technical difficulties, folks. We did not practice beforehand and there you have it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was kind of spur of the moment that we were going to show that yes, stephen Britton, isn't event attendance mandatory for all members? It is, but they don't really have any way to enforce it. It's hard to make the people that pay it's hard to. They don't want to upset those people. That are people that are putting in to the system. So there's a very delicate balance between hey, you have to come to this and making you come to it. There's not really any way for them to force you to come, but you can get in trouble if you didn't come. But it's like one of those, it's just like anything in Scientology. You say, hey, why weren't you there? It'd be like, oh, my car broke down that day and I got stuck out of town, or you know, I missed my flight. And what are they going to do? You missed a flight, that's it. I couldn't come. It's sort of like no teeth for the public, for the people that are members. The Sea Org members have to go. The Sea Org members. They can say you have to go and probably 99.9% of those people will be there, but when it comes to the public members, it's a little easier for them not to show up.
Speaker 1:John says crackers are just a gateway snack for liquors. It's always leads to pretzel licking. You know I can't argue with you there. I can't argue with there. I do like to suck the salt off of pretzels, folks. That's, that's not. I'm not going to deny that one.
Speaker 1:Andy Fabulous, doesn't COS have to report annual income and how spent to IRS maintain profit status? No, now, this isn't a crazy thing I don't know if a lot of people know this or not like a break-in period for the first let's say, 10 years or five years where the IRS, the Scientology, would have to hire an outside accountancy firm to come in and double check whatever Scientology was reporting and they would give them inventories and asset lists and all this stuff. And then this firm would come in and they'd walk through all the different Scientology properties and they'd be like, yeah, yeah, okay, that makes sense, this makes sense. And after a certain period of years the IRS said, okay, scientology, you can now police yourselves. So you've verified by paying an outside accountant firm that your things are correct. Now you're on your own and you can just check yourself, make sure yourself, make sure you're doing it the way you said you would do it. That's how it is set up right now. Mike Rinder can correct that. If that's wrong, next time we're on I'll ask him, but I'm pretty sure that's the current system they have with the IRS. Is they self-police themselves? Scientology says oh yeah, we would never do anything wrong, we would never misreport anything, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Brett Grace, not surprised production companies want to get on the SPTV action but think you guys are smart to keep the series in-house. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think you guys are smart to keep the series in-house. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think you're right, brett. You know, a really good TV show like not a hit TV show, but just an okay TV show can get anywhere from a half a million to a million viewers an episode. Right now on our channel we're getting about a half anywhere from 400,000 to 500,000 views a month.
Speaker 1:Right now we just started and that's just my channel, that's just our channel, blown for Good. I want to say Aaron's probably got a few million views a week over on, maybe a million or more on his channel and then Mike's channel and Amy's channel and all these other people that are starting. So I think a TV show is sort of just an older way of doing it that I don't think is as successful or as immediate and the I think people like the spontaneity of this as well. They don't know what's going to happen. No one knows what's going to happen on these things exactly, including us.
Speaker 1:Including us. Yeah, we were going to show a video. Maybe we won't, maybe I'll show it, maybe I'll jump off the video. Maybe Claire will show it, maybe I'll pause it while I can't watch it. Pokey SD says for a Starbucks for Claire in LA. For a Starbucks for Claire in LA. Thanks for you two and all the SPTV for what you do. I'm glad you are still frustrating DM and COS after all this time living rent-free in their craniums. Yeah, thank you, pokey. A lot of people aren't going to get that Pokey joke, but I'm a big fan of Pokey, just so everybody knows. And I call people.
Speaker 1:Pokey all the time when they start dragging it. So thank you for that pokey.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know that context. I was like pokey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pokey is from that's Gumby sidekick. Yeah, he's a horse, is a clay horse. Melissa saltines are number one for licking. Just an FYI, that's not. I appreciate that, melissa, but have you licked all of them? We're going to lick them all and we're going to find out which is the most lickable, and I think we're going to what do we say? It's going to be judged in licks, like how many licks?
Speaker 2:So now here's my question for you. I've been thinking about this, been giving a lot of thought to cracker licking and this whole supposed scientific test that you would like to do. My question is this if you allegedly licked crackers and then put them back in the packet, then surely a scientific test would have to include does the cracker retain its form? Because if it's a soggy mess that's stuck together, no one's going to eat that cracker after the fact.
Speaker 1:No one's going to eat that cracker after the fact. Well, also, there's so many holes in this story, but the first hole is that if you've got a cracker, why wouldn't you eat it? We didn't have a lot of food there, I know.
Speaker 2:And did they even actually sell crackers in the canteen?
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Like. What was the source of these alleged crackers?
Speaker 1:That's the other thing. We didn't have a source of crackers. And if we did have a source of crackers, I wouldn't spend money on crackers. I'd spend my money on a on a soda, or I'd spend my money on on a not, I wasn't a coffee drinker.
Speaker 2:I was, I would spend my money on coffee, but I did smoke cigarettes.
Speaker 1:I did smoke Camel Non-Filters and that is a pack or two of those. You're done. You don't have leftover money. So I just don't understand. Having crackers was a rarity and then if I had crackers I would just eat them. I wouldn't just eat the salt, I'd eat the whole thing if I had some. And also, I don't think we were allowed to have food in our office spaces.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So would I have just had some food and then I didn't eat it and I left it in my? It's just a weird thing.
Speaker 1:I really do think I think I was talking with um when it was when we had Amy on and she knew that Stephanie gal and how gullible she was and how just like clueless she was about a lot of things and I do genuinely think it was one of those. Oh, how'd you like those crackers? Yeah, I licked them all. And then she was like, oh my God. And it was like no, I was joking. Of course I was joking. Why would I lick the crackers? That's ridiculous things. She just to this day didn't get that it was a joke and assumed that I'd actually licked him. And the fact that she remembered that and then told somebody that and they said that'll be a great video, that's the part to me that's just ridiculous.
Speaker 2:It's like and look and look how radically that backfired on them. I mean, look at your logo. That's a brilliant logo, that's true, oh, we're selling mugs.
Speaker 1:We're doing, we're going to do cracker licking. We're going to get crackers. We're going to say today's crackers club, the buttered edition, we're going to lick it.
Speaker 2:We can do a fundraiser for the Aftermath Foundation like a cracker licking contest. Who can lick the most crackers? Yeah, send in your crackers.
Speaker 1:Vote for your favorite cracker. Oh daughter was Gumby for three months, at two years old, named me Pokey. Yeah, absolutely, there you go, pokey. I appreciate it. I really, really am a big Pokey fan. I'm not joking about this, this is real life here. I've been very fond of Pokey since I saw him many, many years ago.
Speaker 1:Michelle R, I love the relaxed, conversational nature of the SPTV videos. Feels like I'm hanging with some friends. That's right. It's educational. You might learn something, you might not. I mean, we found all about pokey over here, but yeah, you know what we're trying. That is the other thing. I have been criticized. I've. I have seen in the comments here and there that we we kind of joke around and we're a little bit jovial about some of the stuff when it's pretty horrible. But you can't, you can't always just be doom and gloom. You gotta, you gotta pepper it with a little bit of a little bit of humor and a little bit of levity. Otherwise we'd just be crying at the end of every episode. And we have done those episodes too for some of these TV shows. We did an episode, claire, and I did it. Was it Nightline right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they were in our house.
Speaker 1:ABC Nightline. We did an interview. We had a camera crew at our house and it was both of us on camera at the same time, sitting next to each other, and I can't remember what subject we got on.
Speaker 2:But we were talking about.
Speaker 1:I'm trying not to talk about it so that we wouldn't cry.
Speaker 1:That was my way of getting out of crying in this episode right here Anyway we were talking about something and by the time we were done talking, we were both crying and the entire film crew were crying, Every single person. The sound guy was crying, the camera person was crying, the interview was crying, Every single person in the room was crying. And at the end of it I was like and it was in response to Scientology saying that we had made something up or this was all just nonsense and they're just decrentled apostates or whatever it was, and I was like, oh, this, you don't think. This is real. Like, and I think I might even have said the people filming this are crying. Okay, folks, Okay People watching at home. And these guys were like this is going to be the best episode that's ever aired on ABC Nightline. Guess what? It never aired. It might still be the best episode if it aired, but it never did because some executive at ABC, somewhere Scientology got to and he said we're not airing this.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, I remember that moment like it was yesterday, because you were talking, I started crying. You didn't know, I was crying because we were sitting next to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then you saw everyone in the room start crying.
Speaker 1:I was like what's going on?
Speaker 2:And you looked at me and started crying. I was like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was pretty crazy, folks. It was pretty crazy. I will say that I do remember it and I was going off and I was saying something and then I saw them start crying and I looked over at you and you were crying and exactly I was like, oh Jesus, now I got to cry. Okay, dana, again. Firecrackers are saltines soaked in oil or butter and spices. They remain crispy for weeks. Hmm, wow, see, I'm telling you we might have to go down this rabbit hole, these cracker lickers. It's going to happen, going to have cracker episodes. Gumby. Gumby was a little creepy as a kid. Yeah, that's why I like Pokey. That's what I'm saying. Pokey was the. He was the less creepy of the two. Okay, let's get back to these starred questions here. What is the general reaction of public Scientologists to the information presented in history of man? It seems that book would alert people.
Speaker 2:Oh, I answered this one honey.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, sorry, Let me read the whole thing. Then you got John Oliver. You got that one. Yep. Okay, tarkina, you read this one, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Okay Well, arnie, super sticker. Thank you, arnie for the super sticker. The cooking one we're not doing. Mary Kahn. Thank you, mary Kahn.
Speaker 2:You didn't have to do that.
Speaker 1:That Mary Kahn was also on an episode of the Aftermath. I don't think it'd be a bad idea just to go through and re-interview the people that were on the aftermath and you could ask them what are some of the things that you did talk about that didn't make the show that would be a great Well, Aaron did that Exactly. Oh, he did.
Speaker 2:A different theme surrounding. That would be a great idea, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sure, he did one with Mary, though, like that.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure. Oh idea, yeah, sure, he did one with Mary, though like that. Um, I'm pretty sure, yeah, he did one with me like that, and I think he did one with you like that and a bunch of people, but I'm sure you're right there there's. That was such an amazing series. I'm sure there's a different theme we could come up with. That would make a lot of sense to hear from people that were featured in the aftermath series.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. Um, do you guys still need a pet sitter? My sister Now we're getting pet sitter recommendations. Thank you, anne Hummingbird. Yeah, I think we're pretty taken care of in that department so far, and also I'm trying to get home before Claire has to take off.
Speaker 1:I studied the LDS, for a friend who asked why it was considered a cult Spent years in amongst life. I find it interesting what people believe. I believe Scientology is much worse. I feel so sad for them. Yeah, you know, that's also another kind of area.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of other groups where they have like fundamentalists or radical versions of that group and some members, some of the general members of that group might just be like what are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't experienced anything that's very similar in Scientology. There's a lot of Scientologists like I've done a few courses like that. The Katie gal that that got in because of Tom Cruise. She's done a few courses. She lives in the middle of nowhere, got in because of Tom Cruise. She's done a few courses. She lives in the middle of nowhere. She's only experienced the outer, outer, like very, very introductory things in Scientology. So she doesn't know about the Sea Org. She doesn't know about the abuse going on in there. She doesn't know about any of that stuff. So for her this is all like what are you talking about? And even the Xenu and the space alien things almost I'd say 80% of Scientologists have never heard of Xenu. They don't know about any of the alien body Thetans and all that. And you know, a funny thing is is even Scientologists that do know about some things in Scientology but they don't know about the Xenu.
Speaker 1:When you say, oh, there are these things called body Thetans, they think you're misunderstanding that there's this thing that's called thetans in Scientology, because L Warren Hubbard talks about thetans, thetans, thetans. He talks about that full time but he never talks about body thetans until you get onto these upper levels. So some Sea Org members or even Scientologists watching this and they hear us talking about body Thetans. They're like they're talking about something that sounds right, but it's weird that they're saying body Thetans, because that's not a thing. Well, if you did OT3 and up, then you'd find out about the body Thetans. So when I first saw the South Park episode, I thought why are they calling them body Thetans? They're just called Thetans. And then, of course, claire's like nah, are they calling them body things? They're just called things. And then, of course, claire's like nah, nah, they call body things. Uh, cause she had already done all that stuff. So, yeah, most Scientologists just don't, they just don't know about these things. Great explanation and great trailer, claire, thank you. That's another one from Dana. Thank you, dana.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Dana.
Speaker 1:Do Sea Org members collect any public benefits?
Speaker 2:I think if you want to say if you get in an accident or something, they'll claim workman's comp. They do claim that that's not a public benefit. Yeah, my, my, when I broke.
Speaker 1:What do you call that?
Speaker 2:Workers comp. That's an insurance that the that Scientology pays for. Public benefits, by my understanding, is more like, you know, unemployment. You know subsidization from the government. And when I was, actually when we were, when I was in the cadet org in the UK, my mom, at one point I remember, we went and applied for public benefit and she was collecting it for a while, which was amazing to me because for the first time we had more money than uh, than just what would pay for her cigarettes at the time, um, but then it was cancelled and she was no longer allowed to collect, collect it because it was creating bad public relations for that seer members were collecting money from the UK government.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I'll tell you something that's very interesting that we found out more recently, and I think Jeff Augustine. He has a website and a YouTube channel called the Scientology Money Project, and Scientology just recently collected millions and millions and millions of dollars in relief money due to when the shutdowns happened, and so they're collecting money as if they're paying employees. So they're saying we have this many people and this is how many people we employ, so we need the money to be able to pay those people, even though they're not paying those people minimum wage, they're not paying those people a salary, they're paying those people $45 or $50 a week to take out taxes. And they collected millions and millions of dollars for those people. And I'm going to venture out and guess that those Sea Org members didn't get paid that money that Scientology collected in order to pay for those people, which is what the money was for. So I suspect that that single thing that they did will come back to haunt them soon or in the future, we'll say, because the government if you steal from the government, they usually want to find out why you did that and maybe get some of that back.
Speaker 1:Mark bought your book and Mike's book, worked two jobs, no free time, but I can't wait to read on vacation. Keep up the good fight, claire, you are awesome. That's me, gigi. Thank you, that's me. Um, yeah, claire is pretty awesome. We will, we'll we agree on that.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks honey.
Speaker 1:Are you going to be talking about Shelly's mother in the series, like what happened to her?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'll be covered and we actually for those that are new listening to the channel, shelly's sister used to live with us when we first escaped Scientology and Shelly's father used to work for me after we first escaped Scientology.
Speaker 2:Yes, he was such an amazing man, oh my goodness. And actually for a while I'm sure you remember this, honey he was like a grandpa to our oldest son. Our oldest son was one one and a half at the time and Barney would come and hang out with us all the time. He had Thanksgiving dinner with us. He would just sit out on the porch and talk to us because I think it was. It was sad to me that he was such an amazing person and yet he had no one that he could just openly talk to. And he it was very clear to me personally that the only reason he was still in Scientology was because of his daughters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, scientology was because of his daughters, yeah, and he told us all kinds of things that, crazily enough, we kind of were just like, yeah, we had just assumed everybody knew all these things. And then when we started kind of thinking about doing this series and we started talking about some of these things we knew, people were like, what are you talking about? No one's ever heard any of this before. I was like, oh yeah, we were told that by Shelly's dad and he wasn't really allowed to tell anybody these things because they were all in Scientology and the reason he could tell us is because we weren't. So he told us all kinds of things that not a lot of people know and we were able to verify a good amount of those things and get pictures and all sorts of things. So we actually have some pretty exciting new information on Shelly that no one has ever heard before, no one has ever known before, and some of these things are crazy, like things that happened to her when she was a young child that no one's ever heard of, and things that happened with Barney, her dad, where he had to go and actually rescue her from Scientology things. So there's a lot of craziness that happened before. She was even 15 years old, when they were basically she was just given to L Ron Hubbard as a. I think she was 12 or something. Anyway, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:You'll subscribe and when we come out with this new series you're going to do it. And I think, where I'm even thinking about we have people that subscribe to Blown for Good on Twitter and I'm debating whether or not we should set up a subscription thing on YouTube to be able to watch these things ahead of time. We'll see. I'm trying to keep it kind of even so. People don't miss out, but we'll see. Youtube and Twitter are pushing us to do subscribers. So on Twitter subscriptions cost. On YouTube it's free, so you don't have to do that. But you can do memberships on YouTube, which is another thing on top of a subscription. But for now, if you subscribe, you'll find out and we'll show you the videos. We might do other things as well.
Speaker 1:Dastardly Saboteur, does Sea Org members collect any public benefits? That's the one we just showed. And they also do workman's comp and they do do social security. That was the other thing I was going to say. When they get older and they can't work, scientology encourages them to collect social security so that then they can get credit cards set up in that person's name and then they can get $20,000 or $30,000. And then they make the person's social security just pay for the credit card interest until that person passes away and then Scientology gets to keep the bulk credit card interest until that person passes away and Scientology gets to keep the bulk of the money the person passes away. So the credit card debt is forgiven and in the end Scientology gets all the money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, somebody also clarified like other public benefits obviously food stamps, welfare et cetera. Food stamps I mean food is provided by the SE, the Searig for Searig members.
Speaker 1:You could get an EBT. You as a Searig member, you could easily qualify for food stamps and get subsidized. Like that way. I don't know why no one's thought of that, probably because Scientology is like. You can't do that, we're giving you money.
Speaker 2:Well, also too, then they'd have to leave to get food there. They shut that down a long time ago.
Speaker 1:Also too, then they'd have to leave to get food. They shut that down a long time ago. Yeah, pioneer 863, enjoying the book. So you went from pancake quality control officer to cracker licker. You should be very proud. Yeah, it's like I've just got a carb career going here. There's no, I've got to get onto a protein job I'm getting. I went from pancakes to crackers. I grew up in a cult so I don't know about all the food groups and all that stuff, but I think those are both carbs pancakes and crackers.
Speaker 2:Still, the funniest conversation ever was with my mom when she was like, so what's your post? And you're like pancake quality control. And she's like, wow, so you check the quality of pancakes. She was so clueless she had no idea.
Speaker 1:In the Sea Org at Golden Era Productions, we produced cassettes and when you make cassettes you do them, you make 30 at a time and they're on one big giant reel of cassette tape that's about 12 inches, it's like a size of a record. And then that cassette tape gets cut up and put into reeled into cassettes, and so you can have a pancake of 30 cassettes and so it's called a pancake. That's what TDK, the manufacturer of the tape, calls them pancakes and I was the one who checked the pancake. So my, my literal post title was pancake quality control. That was my job, was pancake quality control. That was my job was pancake quality control. And the pancake jokes never ended. When I was in the seahawk people would be like, oh, pancake boys here you know. Like, hey, how the pancakes looking there, big guy um need to watch e03.
Speaker 1:Uh, episode three, season eight of boston legal episode on scientology Better Than South Park. Yes, I want to say that that is James Spader in that episode. It is a very good episode. Boston Legal episode three, season eight. I have seen it and it is pretty good. I think they're talking about a lot of inside baseball Scientology stuff in there. Did you do something awesome for Goldie Wedding. We did that's between us and Goldie. If Goldie wants to talk about it, she can talk about it, but we did do something cool for her right, claire.
Speaker 2:Yes, we did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did. Okay, good, Just making sure Australia has a lot of great crackers oh, I'm sure they do. I plan to lick all of them, and those people should not be forgotten. I really do think it's a disservice for the people that we left behind Now. Granted, some of those people are assholes and I'm not so worried about them, but most of them are not so worried about them, but most of them are not. So we want to help as many people as we can help, and the people that don't want to be helped, we're not worried about them. They don't want to be helped. So you know, it's all good. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. We did catch up on all the questions, as far as I can tell. I don't think we've got any more in here. If you see any more that you'd like to star that, we can answer. We can go for a few more minutes.
Speaker 2:Oh, Apostate Alex is here. Hey, Apostate Alex.
Speaker 1:Oh, there you go. Yeah, no, there are. When we were at the Int Base, I think the most amount of people that were there about a thousand, and I think when we, when we left in 2005, I want to say it was about 500 maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe less by then.
Speaker 1:Between every single. There's a lot of different organizations at the base Scientology different Scientology organizations that have different organizational structures and executives and all these different things. But I want to say there was maybe 500, probably at the most there was 500 people there. And then, even since we left, we've heard of a lot of other people that have left. So even if there was 300 people there that are left, I would say probably about 250 of those people are decent folks that if they knew they could go somewhere they'd probably go. And then there's probably 50 people that are just loyal to Miscavige, no matter what happens. They're like ride or die with him. And and even some of those people we've heard they were thinking about leaving or they tried to escape and then they got caught and then they weren't able to leave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and honestly, when we left, I thought Mike Rinder was one of those people and he was not. So you never know.
Speaker 1:Even when Mike Rinder left, I was like we better watch out for this dude. He could be a double agent. He's done double agent stuff before he could be a double agent. He's done double agent stuff before he could be a double agent. I told people, just because it's Mike, let's not, let's just watch him for a little while, let's see what happens here. Tread very carefully and it turned out he was legit.
Speaker 1:But yeah, even people coming out of there now we're still like we still got to keep an eye on, like eh, you know we'll help them, but we ain't going to tell them anything, because you know we tell you guys a lot but we don't tell you everything. We got to keep some stuff that's going on. We got to keep quiet until you know things happen. Oh yeah, here's somebody. Wouldn't that be so funny. Oh no, says hate pancakes. Yeah, that is a good point. I just also happened to like pancakes. I can't eat them now these days. I'm a big, I'm a big fat, so if I eat too many pancakes, but but I did like some pancakes. So being the pancake quality control was not the worst job in the world. But if we did have, we didn't we did we ever even have pancakes there.
Speaker 1:That was very rare to have pancakes right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'd have to be a special occasion. Yeah, I mean. So rarely did we even ever actually eat breakfast because we were so tired and sleeping in those chairs.
Speaker 1:That's right, the comfy chairs.
Speaker 2:If they did serve pancakes, I missed them completely.
Speaker 1:I do remember there was one or two times when I was eating pancakes and I'd be like yeah, these are pretty good.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know what Didn't? They used to do it for Sunday brunch sometimes, when we would come in, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we would have them and when we'd eat them I'd be like, yeah, these are okay, these pass the test. And people would be like, very funny, very funny, mark Pancake quality control. Hilarious, as Claire would say, hilarious.
Speaker 1:Hilarious, Hilarious Okay folks say hilarious, hilarious, hilarious. Okay, folks, I think we did it. I think we got through this thing as we do. This is when sometimes people bail out. But all copies of Blown for Good purchased through Blownforgoodcom are signed by Claire and myself. If you'd like a copy, you can get them there at Blownforgoodcom. If you'd like a copy, you can get them there at blownforgoodcom. If you don't care about that and you just want one, you can get them on Amazon or Kindle or wherever books are sold. You can get the digital or the audio copy.
Speaker 1:If you want to support the Aftermath Foundation and you want a nice little, fun little thing, you can get a bobblehead or an SP bracelet. The SP bracelets are stainless steel. They come in all sizes. There's a sizing chart on the spshopcom where you can get the micro-render bobbleheads or the SP bracelets, and all proceeds of those go to the Aftermath Foundation. If you don't need a trinket or you don't need any of that silliness, you can just go. And you want to donate to the Aftermath Foundation, you can just go to the aftermathfoundationorg and there is a donate button, and if you don't want to donate, you can also volunteer there.
Speaker 1:There's all sorts of things that we need help with people when we're helping them escape, and one of those things could be driving somebody to the airport or a place for someone to stay, or some winter clothes for a female that's about this age or that age, or a male, or whatever. It could be anything that we could need in any location in the world. Some people say, well, I live in New Zealand and what are you? What? What could I possibly help? No, we had somebody that we needed to get a laptop in Australia and we needed somebody to get that somebody from Australia back to the States or from the States to Australia, I can't remember which way it was but we had to do all the States get our vehicle.
Speaker 2:All kinds of crazy stuff.
Speaker 1:We needed some people in Australia and we needed some people in the States and we were able to do almost. I think we were able to do all of that through the volunteers, through the aftermath foundation website. So, um, you'd be surprised what we're doing behind the scenes. When we're not making videos. We're doing other stuff and we're trying to get these people out of there. Don't forget to subscribe. We're trying to get to 20. I mean, I got to look before. I say that because we could have already.
Speaker 2:I haven't looked at the subscribers.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's 28,270. Yeah, so we're trying to get up to 29,000. We did just hit a crossover 28,000 and Claire gave away a book. Every time we cross over another thousand subscribers, Claire picks somebody in the comments to get a book. So if you want a book, a bobblehead or a bracelet, you got to let us know in the comments and then when we tick over, Claire just randomly picks one of those people to win one of those things. Every time we take over another thousand subscribers. Just a fun way to do that and also do some giveaways so that not everybody has to do a super chat, Not everybody has to do a super sticker. Some people just show up and get bobbleheads, books and bracelets when they want them.
Speaker 2:And I will say I love doing these because we always get such amazing input from our audience, like the Aftermath series we just talked about, and it reminded me, too, that we're going to start doing a series about the people, some of the people, that the foundation has helped. That's going to be absolutely awesome. Yes, we do have some very powerful stories to be told awesome.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do have some very powerful stories to be told. I was going to say we do have another story that we've been working on for more. I want to say about a year now. Right, we've been working on videoing and filming one of the individuals that we've helped for about a year and in his in his journey from working with us to where he is now, and he is well into this journey and every step of the way. It has been an amazing, amazing journey and if you watch I don't even know that we'll be able to do it in one video. It might be different videos, I don't know how exactly it's going to unfold on the channel, but if you don't cry in at least half these videos, then you are one cold hard, uh, son of a gun, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Um, this is very, very powerful. That, um, what happened to this individual, what ended up, um, how he ended up getting treated by Scientology and how he went from that to where he is now, is the most. It is a miracle. It is a true miracle that he is with us today and the fact that just where he's, where he's got to, so it's pretty powerful. It's amazing. I'm very connected to this one individual in many, many different ways, so for me, it is a little personal. Anyway, it's going to be great. You guys are going to love it.
Speaker 1:We do have a lot of content that we've been cranking out on here, even though we're not as busy and as prolific as Aaron or Mike, necessarily, but we are trying to work on some stuff that's going to be amazing for you guys. So, thank you very much for tuning in, thank you for all that stayed to the very end, thank you for everyone who has liked and subscribed and commented on the videos. We're going to try and keep these going as much as we can and as long as you guys tune in to watch, and as long as we get more um people viewing more videos, we're going to keep doing them. Um and um, yeah, anything else, claire.
Speaker 2:That covers it.
Speaker 1:Okay, guys, thank you very much, until next time, bye. Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, kindle and audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast and you can get that on Apple, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.
