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The Homeschool How To
I don't claim to know anything about homeschooling, so I set out on a journey to ask the people who do! Join me as I chat with homeschoolers to discuss; "why are people homeschooling," "what are all the ways people are using to homeschool today," and ultimately, "should I homeschool my kids?"
The Homeschool How To
#104: Unschooling with No Screen Time Limits- How One Family Does It!
Discover the transformative journey of Marissa, a homeschooling mother from Pennsylvania, as she shares her family's shift from traditional education to homeschooling during the COVID-19 pandemic. Marissa opens up about the unexpected challenges her family faced with online schooling, particularly for her child with selective mutism, and how these hurdles led them to explore a path that better served their needs. As Marissa navigates various educational philosophies, she reveals the flexibility and adaptability homeschooling brought to their lives, highlighting the positive changes and adjustments she made, including pausing her own education to support her children.
Peek into the world of unschooling, where learning through play and natural curiosity takes center stage. Marissa's insights into this philosophy demonstrate its impact on children's self-esteem and learning experiences, offering a personalized and relational approach to education. Hear how relocating from New York to Pennsylvania facilitated a fresh start, shedding the constraints of conventional schooling and embracing a more progressive and supportive learning environment. Unschooling challenges societal misconceptions, emphasizing resourcefulness and critical thinking, while meeting Pennsylvania's specific homeschooling reporting requirements in creative ways.
Concluding on a broader note, we touch on the essentials of preparing children for life's emergencies and balancing technology and lifestyle choices. From teaching kids essential safety information to managing screen time through collaboration, Marissa and I exchange personal stories and insights on fostering a nurturing environment at home. With a focus on respecting individual choices in homeschooling, we reflect on the importance of community involvement and offer guidance for families considering this educational journey. Join us for an episode filled with rich experiences and practical advice to inspire and support your own homeschooling or unschooling adventure.
Connect with Marissa- https://www.academicanarchy.com/
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Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool How-To. I'm Cheryl and I invite you to join me on my quest to find out why are people homeschooling, how do you do it, how does it differ from region to region? And should I homeschool my kids? Stick with me as I interview homeschooling families across the country to unfold the answers to each of these questions week by week. Welcome, and with us today I have Marissa. Marissa, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. So what state are you in? I'm in Pennsylvania, okay, nice, I'm in upstate New York, so we're kind of on the same coast, at least. And how long have you been homeschooling?
Speaker 2:really liked it. It was never something I saw myself doing. I always had that vision of what is very like schoolhouse sitting at the table with all my kids and, like you know, whiteboard instructing. And then, you know, as I started to dive into it, when we took that route, I found that that was, that was the way that we wanted to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it it isn't necessarily like that either. You know, sitting down with the whiteboard there's so many different ways, which is kind of like why I started the podcast. I was like I think I want to homeschool but I can't see myself like whittling and sewing clothes, like can I do it if I'm like coming out of the mainstream world and I'm not sure I want to like jump into Little House on the Prairie just yet. So, yeah, it was kind of refreshing for me to talk to all of like you amazing families and hear like no, it doesn't have to look like that at all. So how many kids do you have?
Speaker 2:I have five kids. My oldest is 17. She's a senior this year, and then I have a 12 year old, 11 year old, eight and six. So a little bit of every age group.
Speaker 1:Okay. So this is cool because I kind of want to get in just from the very beginning. Covid started and your kids started learning from home, and at this point you had a two-year-old at home too. So you were kind of like I have a two-year-old now, they keep you on your toes, you're busy. What did you see with your older kids that were in school learning online at home that you were like maybe this isn't what I thought school was?
Speaker 2:online at home that you were like maybe this isn't what I thought school was. I don't even. It didn't even really get to that point because it was so hard to manage the different schedules and when they needed to be on. I have one child who has selective or situational mutism. So when we were in the school system at this time, three of my children were in public school, and this child in particular. You know, we had to go through extensive like evaluations and IEPs and like it took so much just to get to a point where she was comfortable in the classroom setting. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh, now we're going to do this on a screen and it wasn't happening for her. You know that was not something we could just quickly integrate into. That was going to need to be a whole new, a whole new thing, like all right, we're just going to homeschool for this year and just get through this and that's that's kind of where we were at with that.
Speaker 1:So it made more sense for you to pull all the kids out and homeschool them all together. How was there? Was there pushback from the kids?
Speaker 2:No, not at all. I mean, I think in retrospect, you see how just the whole COVID era kind of had an impact on everyone in in the moment. No, it was not like a big deal. It's like, well, we get to be home and we had started using some like online curriculum, but I quickly saw how they became very uninterested in that. And that's when I got into reading about different homeschooling philosophies and really, like you know, conceptualizing what this could look like for us. Were you working at the time?
Speaker 1:No, I've always been a stay at home, so it wasn't like you had to. Okay, do I leave my career or not? Which is kind of what I faced, and I was like I don't think I could just leave my government job, like I've been waiting for this pension, what do you mean? I'm just going to like walk away from it. But you know, that was a hurdle, like slowly, you know, crossed, and now every day I wake up and I'm like I cannot imagine if I were just sitting in a cubicle right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was definitely some shifts, because I was actually doing online college and I had a totally different set of plans for my life and at that point I had to withdraw from school because I didn't have child care anymore. It became a lot more challenging to be able to sit and do my schoolwork while navigating all this and then I just I didn't go back because our life changed. You know, plans and our lifestyle just became a lot different. So there was, there was definitely some changes and what we thought we were going towards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what did those early days look like, when you were like, okay, we're gonna kind of replicate school at home and try these online curriculums, or even, you know, at the at the desk curriculums. What did that look at the desk curriculums? What did that look like and what? How did the kids react to that? Like, did you almost give up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, at first it was just like online we were using I'm drawing a blank, but it was just like an online one that we started out with and we would just like, you know, we would start at like 10 am or whatever, and have tried to do like a kind of a structured day-to-day plan on how we would do that and they would look into it at first.
Speaker 2:But then I started to notice that it became more of a drag, like I don't want to get on and do this, you know. And then I was like, well, that's not, you know, that's not cool. Like I don't want it to be a drag, I don't want them to like not be into learning. Because I could see it, I started to put the pieces together, like, all right, well, learning isn't really happening If it's not joyful, if you're not into it, if you don't want to be learning this thing, then you know. And that's that's where, again, I started like doing a lot of reading and looking into different philosophies and I was like, all right, well, we're not going to do this anymore. So we just we ditched it, you know, within the first few months.
Speaker 1:What books in particular really changed your viewpoint on homeschooling?
Speaker 2:Peter Gray's Free to Learn was the first one that really radicalized my mindset on everything because you know he comes from it from every angle. You know you're getting like historically side of it, the history history side of it, the psychological side of it, the evolutionary side of it, research, and like so many statistics, and I love that like to me that really resonated, I think, especially for just getting into it to be able to really see like the statistics and the research and how this is affecting kids' mental health. And I could really piece together with you know, like my oldest who really struggled in school, like it really had a great impact on her mental health. So, yeah, that was, it was Peter Gray first and then I went down you know the line John Taylor, god, oh, john, hole, all of the, all of the, the top, the top dogs out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I, that was one of the first I read too, and I'm not like an avid reader, I want to be. I just I don't know. I open the book and then I fall asleep. Listening to the books on tape has been my saving grace. So I remember listening to Free to Learn, you know, with my headphones in doing stuff around the house and just like stopping in my tracks Like whoa, I never thought about it that way. It's so cool and just kids learning together. That are all different ages.
Speaker 1:And you know, you never stop to think like why do all seven year olds have to sit in a classroom with all seven year olds? Like who? And then they're comparing each other. You know, I can read at this age and I can and I'm struggling and I must be behind, and then getting discouraged and it's like whoever decided? Well, I know now because I've researched, but it's a crazy concept to think that that's how it's supposed to be. So then when you do get the case where you know a third grader needs to be held back again, and it's like so detrimental to their soul that it's you know when it's.
Speaker 1:I've seen it with my son. He's only six, but I tried to teach him how to read last year and it was so frustrating for him and we're just butting heads and not getting anywhere. And I was like, okay, let's take a break and you come back to it six months or a year later and it's like a whole new person. Their brain just works differently and it's like, oh why, why doesn't anybody just wait to teach him to read? And he still doesn't know how to like fully read or anything. But I'm not pushing it either. And even though we might get comments from friends that are in public school who are reading, or cousins that are in public school and read at that age, it's like you know.
Speaker 1:I told him today I go yeah, well, you know how to like change oil in a tire or in a tire. So clearly he's not learning this from me. You know how to change oil in a truck or you know change a tire, so you know more than a lot of other kids too. Yeah, I love that. What, what did you notice most off with your kids? Like you said, your oldest struggled in school. Like what are the things that you saw as you started homeschooling and unschooling that you were like, wow, this is really where we're meant to be Like. What changes in the kids did you see?
Speaker 2:Mental health for sure, like with my oldest. She was in seventh grade at the time when we pulled, so that was the biggest thing. I mean we were spending you know mornings or on the floor in tears, you know, that's like how bad it was, and coming home after school and having you know anxiety, stomach aches and just it was, it was, it was really hard. So that was like the number one thing was that just seeing like the mental health improvement in her um, and then I think can I ask, was that like from stress from friends and bullying, or was it more related to test scores?
Speaker 2:both there was the toxic socialization aspect of it and also the academics that she's just that type of kid that you know, like many kids don't really thrive just sitting down and doing like worksheets and written work. You know she's very hands-on and has to be engaged like has to like really be into it.
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Speaker 2:So yeah, it was both of those things and it really impacted her self-esteem. You know, constantly seeing these low test scores, I think, no matter how often I was like hey, you know, they don't matter, the scores don't matter, you know you can only say that so much it's still. You still get that message that you're not good enough, and so it's really hard to combat that. Even when you know, as a parent, you're trying to be supportive, they're still kind of in that, in that environment and still soaking all that in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so once you guys got into your unschooling environment, how did you see her change? I mean, did she still have like friends from the public school that she was friends with, or did she kind of let those relationships go on her own?
Speaker 2:They, they went, but we also moved. We were in New York at the time and we had collectively, as a family, decided to move across the border to PA.
Speaker 1:And I can't imagine why anyone would leave New.
Speaker 2:York. Yeah, you know, I know, and I know like we're both like very like restrictive in terms of like homeschooling, but I like PA a lot better, that that's for sure. But yeah, so there was like a lot of changes in that aspect because you know she still, like has contact with her friend group, but all that drama disappeared. You know all of like has contact with her friend group, but all that drama disappeared. You know all of the just that toxic aspect that you can't escape, because when you're in school you have no choice but to face it every day. So that was big.
Speaker 2:And then I think, like just de-schooling you know she's still going through it you really can see, you know, having different kids of different age groups and seeing like one that was in school up until you know, high middle school and two that were like lower elementary and then two that have never been to school. And you can really see that difference. And even in the two that have never been, there's still that like societal impact of you know that I don't know like, just like, what am I supposed to know at my age? Yeah, yeah, like everything's kind of centered around school and schoolish things. So that you know, I think like we all kind of need a de-schooling in a way.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure. So how did you de-school?
Speaker 2:Reading, reading, you know, lots of exposure, lots of research, really really getting into the philosophy, like when I was, like you know, decided that unschooling was the route that we wanted to take. I wanted to know everything about it. I really wanted to understand the way that it works. And it's so important when you're going into this, probably with all styles of homeschooling, right, and it's so important when you're going into this, probably with all styles of homeschooling right, like you have to, you gotta like understand, like the philosophy, because I think anybody that doesn't understand it, hears it and obviously is very critical of it because you know there's just the stigma around it. And yeah, you gotta, you gotta like really understand what it's all about?
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, because I mean it. To a lot of people that have never looked into it at all, it looks like just laziness, like, oh, so you just let your kid do what they want to do all day. Okay, well, that's probably going to look like playing video games, and there are some unschoolers that do let their kids play video games all day. But just as in anything else, giving your kid a phone, it doesn't mean that they're on the phone 24 seven. You might have restrictions around it. So, and just yet, you want to have like that ammunition in you.
Speaker 1:It makes me think of a family member that had posted something about like the idiots who feed their kids raw milk on Facebook, and I haven't written to this person in years, but I was like I gotta write something. My husband's like what are you doing? We're eating dinner, and I'm like I just gotta write something. My husband's like what are you doing? We're eating dinner and I'm like I just got to write something. I just went off on a tangent on how wonderful our life has been since we've been drinking raw milk and cause she's like, oh, all you people trying to give what listeria and something to your children, just give it up. It's like again this is someone who clearly doesn't know anything about raw milk, and I didn't either, until I started looking into it and looking into the pasteurization process. So it's the same with unschooling or anything, that until you've actually researched it, you shouldn't have an opinion on it. So what were some of the benefits of unschooling that you read about and figured this was really the way our family needs to take it?
Speaker 2:I think, really understanding the learning process and how it is, not so top down. You know it's not just teaching, memorizing, regurgitating. You know, when you understand the process, the pedagogy of the traditional system and how it is set up that way, and understanding that learning is a very relational process, you know like it's very, it should feel joyful, it's very intrinsic. You know like if they want to know something, we're all in and they're all ears and we can research these things together and whatever it is that comes up and that always leads to more questions and you know that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So that was probably like the biggest thing was like really getting into the whole philosophy of it and seeing how, yeah, kids learn. Naturally they learn, they're learning through play. It's not so, it's not so like obvious of just like sitting down with a worksheet of math equations. You know like what young kid can relate to that. There's no like connection there. It's just like doing things because they have to doing things to get the grade, doing things to move on to the next level. So when you really see that like intrinsic value, like learning because you want to, that's like that's so important.
Speaker 1:So what does that look like in? What does unschooling look like in your day-to-day? If you want to break it down either one day or maybe one week and then even just do like a year's overview, because there are reporting requirements?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you know it's. We don't. We don't have any set structure, we kind of have. I like to say we have rhythms, you know, we flow with like the seasons, whereas like this time of year it might be a little more relaxed and summer we might be a little more out and about and on the move. But but you know, it might be like watching.
Speaker 2:Obviously I have five kids so it's always like split up depending on each of their needs, and that always shifts day to day. So it might start out with like watching a documentary with one of my kids and one of their topics that they're really into, and then sitting down with one of the other kids and watching them play their games. I've got some avid gamers in the house so you know, I'm always just connecting with them, engaging, just, you know, just sitting with them and watching. They love to just tell me about it and just explain what they're doing and teach me. You know my husband's more of the like, you know he sits in like plays the Roblox with them, but I love just sitting and watching and having them teach me and tell me all about it.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, with a teenager we're engaging in a lot of conversation where we might get into current world affairs and you know we might be like sitting down and researching things together, cause you know I don't have all the answers, and that's another big thing. That comes up right is how can you homeschool? You don't know everything? And I think that's the beauty of it is that we are modeling how to be resourceful, how to analyze our sources and where this information is coming from, and question it, and I think that's so much of the beauty of what we do is that we don't know everything. So we're modeling how do we get, how do we find these answers? Who can we call that knows about this? You know who can we reach out to, and all that stuff. So yeah, that's kind of just a little like snippet of what it might look like day to day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then, like in New York, we have, you know, pretty strict reporting requirements. I know it looks something like you know I have to say what I'm going to do for the year and then every quarter what we did do and how my son is doing. And then past, I think it's third or fourth grade you've got to take a written exam every other year and I think maybe every year as you get into the high school years. So what kind of requirements do you have in Pennsylvania of requirements do you have in Pennsylvania, and how do you, without getting yourself into any trouble, you know fit what you're doing into the written form to fulfill the requirements?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 2:It's kind of similar to New York in that, like how when you, at the beginning of every year, we have to have a notarized affidavit and an objective list so similar to you know what you submit in New York just kind of a list running down each how you're covering each required subject area. So that's the beginning of the year, and then what we do in PA is we have we have to submit a portfolio at the end of the year to a certified evaluator. So the good part about this is that there are tons of evaluators across Pennsylvania and you can use whoever fits your style. So for unschoolers, you know we would find an unschooling friendly evaluator, meaning that they understand the philosophy and they can evaluate your portfolio and your children's progress or education through the unschooling lens. So that's the really helpful part is that the evaluators are on our side and we're not reporting directly to the district or the state. All we're doing is submitting. Our evaluator will send us a piece of paper saying that they've approved our portfolio for the year and the district just gets that paper. They're not seeing our personalized portfolio with all of our information. So we do have requirements like 180 days, 900 or 990 hour requirements, which is easy as unschoolers because we, you know, unschool all year, so that's no problem.
Speaker 2:And then there are certain like subject requirements, depending on there's elementary and secondary level. Some of them might be like English, arithmetic, science, geography, history of the United States and Pennsylvania, civics, safety, including fire prevention, health, physical education, music and art, and it's similar for the secondary level. So a good example of how we would utilize an unschooling-friendly evaluator is one of the requirements is to have a reading log of the materials. So, as unschoolers, that list is going to include articles and discord chats and Reddit threads and gaming instructions, board games, subtitles that we used while watching movies or shows, podcasts and that sort of thing. So, yeah, that's like kind of a good example of how we would do that, and my portfolio usually just consists of a lot of photos, and then our evaluator can, you know, analyze our portfolio and see that we are covering all the required subject areas, and as unschoolers, I you know we just inevitably cover these subjects.
Speaker 2:I've never had a year where I'm like, oh no, we didn't cover this subject, it's not reflected in our portfolio. It never happens. It's so easy to hit all these benchmarks and then some, so I think it's very intimidating at first when you're first starting out and you're like, oh no, how can I possibly, you know, take on unschooling when we have all these requirements? But I'm here to say that it is completely achievable. It's so like just naturally, just in everything that we do. So there's that. There's also the testing in grades third, fifth and eighth which is required, and I think it's similar in New York. So we just do like the CAT untimed and again the district and the state never sees those results. That might be different in New York. It's just our evaluator who's just saying that you know, we've completed it.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of a rundown of what we do as far as requirements keeping a log, like all year long as you're watching this documentary or listening to that podcast, and kind of writing it down so that when it comes time to pull it all together to send the portfolio in, you know what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not very good at like building my portfolio through the year. I kind of do it in the last few months. So I have like just keep like in notes on my phone and I'll just pull it open and, you know, write down if, whatever, if we're watching something with subtitles or even just topics that we're talking about or that we're getting into, and just keep little notes of that. I snap lots of pictures, so that's always easy to incorporate. That's all.
Speaker 1:That's kind of how I go about it. Well, I love that because it's just giving people these ideas that we don't think of because we're so in that school mindset of it has to look like these worksheets, these folders and these test scores. But no, it can be documentary. That you know you put a podcast, you listen to subtitles. I mean that's amazing. Hey, we read the whole movie as it was.
Speaker 2:I mean that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:That's a really shows the unschooling mindset of. It's really everywhere. It's cooking dinner, it's having your kid fold laundry, you know. All all of these little things that you do throughout the day. That's just going to make them into like good people that know how to survive. You know, even I would imagine like going to a playground with friends at a play group. There's learning taking place there. I mean your gym class and all that stuff. Physical activity, but even as you get into, probably like math skills have something to do with you know, or science, as he's hanging upside down or spinning on that thing. We talked about the inertia afterwards and why his body was going one way, not another. You really could get into the weeds with it.
Speaker 2:Um have.
Speaker 1:so do you, do you ask the kids, like in the beginning of the year, the beginning of the week or the day, like what do you want to learn about today? Or do you just listen for their cues and then say, well, let's kind of delve into that further?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, most of the time I think it's just it's just listening, it kind of just popped. So I, even just yesterday, my daughter was like I really want to like start crocheting. So we got it. We were out and about we're doing some shopping yesterday and so we picked up these little like beginner crochet kits. It was perfect and so we're gonna start that. So, yeah, they come up all the time. You know there are times where I might check in with them and say, hey, like you know, is there anything? Is there anything we're missing? Are you lacking anything? Anything we need to do for enrichment?
Speaker 1:So a little bit of everything. So what about math? When you think of something like math, that's so you either you know adding, subtracting, multiplying, division, algebra calculus, or you don't. Division, algebra calculus or you don't, and depending on, I guess, what your future looks like for your kid, if they're, you know, want to go to college or not, they might need to know certain things. So how do you navigate something like math or a foreign language?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think again, this kind of stems from that traditional mindset of learning something like math only looks a certain way and I think when you really get into like the development of like a child's brain and can see that they are constantly building these mental frameworks, you know like we don't need to sit a small child down with math worksheets to learn it. A great example the other day I was cooking and I had bouillon cubes out and my six-year-old was there with me and he was like, do you have any more of these? So I pulled out another bottle and he just sat there on the counter next to me and he was grouping them together. Like you know, he'd start in like sets of three and he was like, is three plus three six? And he would ask me if it it was correct. And you know he did this for a little while. And this is just one example of so many that comes up in everyday experiences. Another great example would be he was playing Minecraft and he was fishing and he was, you know, getting the different fish I can't remember all the different kinds, but there was like the cod fish and he was counting as he went and he had a goal of how many he wanted to get to. So he would say I have 10, I need five more to get to 15, and little things like that.
Speaker 2:And then you know, you get into like the teenage years and people get very anxious about how a teenager could possibly learn advanced mathematics.
Speaker 2:And you know something like algebra, which is a requirement for our state at a secondary level, and when you think about algebra and how it's really not some insurmountable obstacle, right Like it's just a process of using what you know and piecing it together to discover what you don't know.
Speaker 2:So something like budgeting and shopping, cooking, travel, diy projects, games Like these are all examples of times where I have seen and noted when algebra is happening. And then I think you know, when it comes to advanced math, I follow that philosophy of if we need to know something, we can learn it. I think it's better to focus on where they're at instead of pushing them further. And that also not just from research, but from my own experiences of struggling with math and school and always feeling behind, like I never could fully grasp one concept before. We were constantly moving to the next and eventually that weighs on you so hard because everybody else, other other students might be so far ahead and you're still like way back here where you never got fully grasped the first concept, because they're kind of just pushing you through. Um, so yeah, I I believe that if we're just kind of focusing on where they are instead of trying to push them forward, it really does come naturally.
Speaker 1:So how does this work? If and not I mean, I'm a big proponent for like, not giving $200,000 to universities anymore, but if you have a child who is really into a certain area like engineering that might need a degree, how are you guys looking at that and talking about that? Is that something where you know you'd say like, okay, well, we'll figure out what you do need to get into college? Or, hey, how could we do this job maybe without spending the time and money on a four-year degree?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, that's been a big topic of conversation. Having a senior this year and I think, when it comes to college is, yeah, we want it to be a very intentional choice. You know, not something I'm completely against, but also, is this gonna have the payoff that you know that we need? You know that we're not going to be so much in debt. And there's like there's a really good podcast. She does degree free, I think it's called, and she talks a lot about like the different avenues and how you can achieve certain careers without college. So that's pretty cool to get into. And then, yeah, I think, like, if it's something like math you know it's like we've talked about if this is your goal to go to college and you fear that you're not going to be at college level math ready, if you're not ready for that, how can we prepare for that now? Like, what can we do to so that you feel ready to take that on?
Speaker 1:Backing up now to your younger kids. I mean, so you have the older ones that were in school. They were in public school when they were learning to read, and all that. When you have the younger kids, I assume you're not pushing them with and I don't know, I say with phonics, because there's an element to phonics that's, um, you know, uh, ghouling. And then there's probably just common like let's talk, let's break up this word as we just sit and have a conversation together at breakfast, so you know how.
Speaker 1:And then, as they're getting to the ages where they might want to learn how to read, like my son, because he's six, will be like, okay, well, you know, we were trying to get him to spell, to put in the words, to search for a movie, a Christmas movie on the TV the other day. So it's like, okay, we'll find G. Okay, let's spell out Garfield. Okay, well, it doesn't really make the A sound. So you know, it was this whole conversation of how to get Garfield spelled out so we could find it. How does that look? And then do you find that your kids are now like looking at their friends, like, well, they can read already. And I know we touched on it earlier when I mentioned it, but I didn't really ask you how you were getting into teaching your kids to read, and if you have an age frame or if you're just like, no, just it's going to come when it comes, what does that look like in your household?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one's a little new because my three oldest were in school so they did the you know, traditional way of learning all that. My now eight-year-old was completely self-taught reader, speller, writer by age five, so that was super exciting and he started by typing. He learned how to type first before he was actually writing pencil and paper, but it came like just seamlessly after he had, you know, was able to spell and type things out. He would use like talk to text on his Kindle and that really helped him. But yeah, it came very easily for him. And now my youngest is six, so we're kind of navigating that and obviously no child is the same, so I don't anticipate him to be like completely like his brother and not comparing them at all.
Speaker 2:But you know, there are things I do do like I really like the strewing method and so that's something I will use. For example, we recently just did little labels around our house and I asked him because he'd made some comments to about wanting to read. So I asked him, like, would you like to do this? We have these, we can write out little words or print them out and then hang them up around the house, and he was so into it. He thought it was super fun. So right now, everything is labeled in our house, so everything has like a little label and that, just you know, brings that the visual word to everything around us, things like little magnet tiles that I can put on the fridge with little words. You know, that's an example of something I might screw as far as when it comes to like reading and spelling.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's that's kind of the approach reading, you know, just reading to him, making it very intentional, like pointing out the words. You know, making sure that I'm pointing it out when I'm saying it so that he can see it, similar to what you said, where he was like writing it on the TV. I'll do that too. Or I just say the letters. He loves to do chalk. You know doing chalk letters. One day we were outside and he's like let's write the alphabet, you do it first and I'll copy you Like okay. So yeah, it's just another thing that I don't, I don't have to push it, I like to inspire it and you know, make sure that. Just, you know, it's a constant, constantly like engagement and we have like an enriching environment full of words and reading. You know, whatever way that may look, and it just, it really does just kind of come naturally. We will see how that evolves with him and how he picks that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is reading to your kids or making sure they read every day part of your kind of intentional journey with the unschooling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not in a traditional sense. It doesn't always look like books. It could just look like reading something else. Like I said, they're big gamers, so a lot of times we're reading things on their games and doing math that way because they're so into it, it's what they love.
Speaker 1:so I really like to just, you know, accentuate on those points that they're the things that they're really into, and that's where I'll try to keep the focus so now, okay, since they are big gamers, do you have any reservations on, like, how much time they're spending in front of a screen or, you know, watching movies or TV? No, this is a bit of a controversial. Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean, my kid is my two year olds obsessed with Cocoa.
Speaker 2:Melon.
Speaker 1:So, like there's no judgment here, I just like to ask, because you know, it's what I'm thinking. I haven't done intensive research on, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we don't. Yeah, we don't have any any like restrictions around that, and I found that that just is the best route to go, because then they don't have that anxious feeling of like, oh no, I only have an hour to complete this Minecraft village, and you know, then they're not getting up to go to the bathroom or eating Like they're super relaxed. They know that it's always there. They love it. I see the value in it because I see how much that they're learning from these things that they love so much.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, this is Cheryl. I want to thank you so much for checking out the podcast. I'm going to keep this short and sweet because I know your time is valuable. I want to ask you a serious question do your kids know what to do to actually save their life in an emergency? The most important thing we can talk to our kids about is knowing their first and last name, knowing mom and dad's first and last name, mom's phone number, dad dad's phone number, their address, what to do if they get lost, what to do if someone who's watching them has a heart attack, a stroke, an accident where they fall and your child needs to get help.
Speaker 1:We live in a world where there's no landline phones anymore, basically, and cell phones lock. Does your child know how to call 911 from a locked cell phone? It is absolutely possible, and my book demonstrates how to do that, whether it's an Android, whether it's an iPhone and, most importantly, it starts the conversation, because I was going through homeschooling curriculum with my kids, realizing that, gee, maybe they skim over this stuff, but they don't get into depth, so my child's not going to remember this should an accident occur, right? I asked a couple of teachers what they do in school and they said they really don't do anything either other than talk about what to do in a fire during the month of October fire prevention month. So I wrote a book because this is near and dear to my heart.
Speaker 1:I have had multiple friends that have lost kids in tragedies and I don't want to see it happen again if it doesn't have to. We were at the fair over the summer and the first thing I said to my son when we walked through that gate was what's my first and last name, what is your first and last name and what is my phone number? And if you get lost, what are you going to do? You can get my book on Amazon and I will put the link in my show's description Again. It's called let's Talk Emergencies and I really hope you'll check it out because there's just no need to be scared when you can choose prepared.
Speaker 2:So it hasn't been an issue because there's no like power struggle around it. You know, I find that they want the same things for themselves that I do. You know it's like this interesting dynamic when you're like have this collaborative relationship with your kids that you're not. There's no like control war, because we can just communicate with each other. And you know, if I say like hey, you know, like you've been playing a game for a while, do you want to go outside and stretch out, run around a little bit? Like usually they're all for it. Like I don't like get any pushback to do other things. They're always open to do other things because they know they can just come back to their game.
Speaker 1:Okay. So there's no like like what I've heard, with shows like Cocoa Melon. Like my two year old, she's seeing the change in the screens so much that her synapses are making connections that, like she it's, she's always going to be expecting. Now those quick screen changes, and when she doesn't see that, when she's just like, for instance, looking outside, you know, or we're reading a book together, that's actually causing anxiety. Now, I don't know, this is just something I've heard, you know, probably on podcasts. I don't know if you know the science behind it, if that's truthful or not, but is that anything you worry about? I think?
Speaker 2:a lot of times with the fear mongering around screens. The research too, you know, it doesn't. It doesn't account for the variables that aren't controlled for meaning it doesn't. It doesn't show, you know, unschooled versus schooled kids, or homeschooled versus schooled kids. It's not showing. Oh, these kids are parented in an authoritarian manner and these kids, you know, have a collaborative relationship with their parents, and those things, in my eyes, like, make all the difference.
Speaker 1:Well, and even just you know, maybe, being in a two parent household, versus having to switch back and forth between you know mom's house, dad has, mom has that and or you know the diet. Are they getting all red dye 40? And you know chemicals in their foods all day? Are they not getting any fresh air? Are they not doing any physical activity? For sure, I'm, I'm sure all of that plays into it.
Speaker 2:That's been a big thing we've been getting into. It's so funny because my youngest will say what was it? I think it was like a jello packet. It was from Aldi, so it didn't have dyes in it. But he's like is there red 40 in this? And he's like asked to make sure first.
Speaker 1:So super cute. Yeah, I dropped the kids off to my in-laws every Wednesday so I can record the podcast. And he's like mom, look, we got candy canes. And I'm like I just like spend all this money on organic candy canes for them for Christmas here they are getting this from their grandmother. But like what can I say? She's watching them for me, so I'm like thanks, I get that.
Speaker 2:I get that we're not like totally restrictive, because I try. You know, I don't like want to be like I don't. I don't like to be like controlling and overbearing when it comes to stuff. I rather like just communicate about the things that I'm learning, cause it's kind of new on my journey to like going back and getting into health and diet. So I just like to talk to them about the things that I'm learning and they're into it because they know that I'm not I don't have some ulterior motive to like control them Like. No, like don't eat that because it's bad for you. I was reading about how this ingredient can have this kind of effect on you and then you know they're interested because they know I'm giving them truthful information. I'm not just saying it just to stop them from eating something. Right.
Speaker 1:Yes, I feel like sometimes the kids are more receptive than the like my siblings, or the grandparents, because they're just so used to their routines. And you know my sister's kids, they ate so much crap growing up but they all were very calm kids. And then she makes fun of me because she's like your kids are absolutely crazy and you don't feed them. You know sugar and red dye 40 and you know high fructose corn syrup and she's like maybe you should give them some McDonald's. They might calm down. I might, I don't know. No, but it is funny. But yeah, so I'll say to my in-laws, like well, if you want to deal with them on their sugar high, give it to them now. But it is funny. Yeah, I really like that.
Speaker 1:I haven't gotten my son into video games much. We have my husband's old Nintendo 64, which has, like the controls are, you know, with a cord that plug into the system, plugged into the TV, and I think my son just thinks that's how video games are and he plays Mario Kart on it and thinks it's the coolest thing and I haven't noticed like any sort of like attachment to it where he's not like waking up and asking for it. But he's not waking up and asking for TV either. My daughter is much more of like. She wakes up screaming for Miss Rachel and for Cocomelon. Like it's scary, she wakes out of a sleep, miss Rachel.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a sign you watch a little too much. But I would be curious to see how like the Minecraft and the Roblox are. I mean, they do fearmonger you for sure. And what about like interacting with the public? Is that part of those video games? Because I've heard that be a fear as well. Like, oh, anybody can communicate with your child and I don't know, are there restrictions you can set up around that? And even bullying through those sites?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are some like different restrictions you can set up, but again, I I take the approach of like having this open relationship where they can talk to me and we can discuss red flags of people. My kids have made some really good friends through their online gaming and you know, we take the steps you know, obviously, to make sure that they're real people, they're safe but, like my daughter's always on FaceTime with her two long distance friends and they're doing their gaming together. It's a very like interactive process with some of their friends. But, yeah, something comes up. I think my son came to me sometime. He was like, yeah, like somebody was asking me for money because they were in like a really bad flood and so instead of being like no, like you know, get rid of that person immediately, I was like you know, like let's, let's think about this and kind of, you know, just talked through it a little bit and then at the end he was like, yeah, I guess you know that sounds like it's probably a fake person, and he was able to kind of come to that realization on his own without me just saying get off, you know, delete that person, we walk through it.
Speaker 2:Talk about the red flags. I was like here are here, are like some signs that we can look for if somebody is is a tricky person. You know, I don't really like to use strangers. I think strangers can become good friends and become, you know, resourceful people. So we're we're looking for those tricky people and like, yeah, when it comes to bullying, my kids have had no issue. Like they just will go on and block somebody if there's a problem. They have come to me and talked to me about issues that they faced and so, yeah, I don't, I haven't, I haven't encountered it as a problem. Things do happen, but as long as, like, we're maintaining a good relationship where they can come to me and they're not trying to hide something and potentially get themselves into a worse situation, then you know we're going to be okay. Sometimes we have to have those experiences to learn from them. So as long as, like, we can do that in a safe manner, I feel good about it.
Speaker 1:And that that's a really good point to make. I hadn't really thought about it, that in fact I just I wrote this children's book let's talk emergencies earlier this year and it goes into, like you were talking earlier, about our requirements and you know, the being, the fires and this and that sort of thing. It fulfills that for the, the homeschool requirement, because it does talk about that in your escape plan. But in the book I do get into this sort of like stranger danger thing where people on the Internet might not be what we think and it's the image I had my illustrator do is a wolf wearing sheep's clothing coming through the iPad and you know the little girl about to go get it, and so it kind of provokes that conversation of why is this? What's this wolf wearing, why is it dressed like this? And and I didn't explicitly put things in, you know, I just kind of put in a rhyme that you know sometimes people aren't telling you the truth and you have to learn how to figure that out and you can always go to your parents for that. But you know it provokes the conversation, which I think, yeah, we're so easy to say, okay, this isn't allowed, which that's fine too, if that's what you know your parenting style is.
Speaker 1:But there is that like letting something happen and talking it through, like because they're going to have to make those decisions later in life. I mean, even me, I'm experiencing it, with people reach out to you on Instagram and this and that. And, oh, hey, could you, could you promote this for me? But it like okay, well, if it looks a little sketchy and you know you, you have to. Okay, oh or oh, I'll pay you to do this. Just give me your bank account routing and checking number. And it's like, well, why would you need my routing number and bank account number? There's Venmo, there's PayPal, you know. So it's like you really, even at 40 years old, have to be looking into that.
Speaker 1:And then I know, 80 year olds, that, oh my God, that you got to send all my inheritance, you know all my money away, my whole savings, because you have a grandson calling, supposedly in jail in Cuba, and they need your money. And you know grandma's, all her money's gone. And you're like, no, he's in bed at home. That was a scam. So it's just, we're in that era where it happens to everybody kids, adults and the elderly so we do have to learn about it and teach our kids how to navigate those waters. That's a really good point.
Speaker 1:This has been such a cool conversation because I do love. I think this will be a super popular episode because you kind of give parents the grace to like you don't have to be I'm thinking like June Cleaver or the little house on the prairie mom, where it's great if you are and if you're not, it works too, and your kids are still going to learn, I think, just being with your kids how. That's my last question to you how have you seen the dynamic in your family change since everybody was in all different directions throughout the day and even your, just your kids, being siblings with each other? How has that changed since you brought everybody home to homeschool?
Speaker 2:The connection it's been so much stronger because it wasn't just, you know, switching to unschooling wasn't just an educational aspect, it was a total lifestyle shift.
Speaker 2:You know switching to unschooling wasn't just an educational aspect, it was a total lifestyle shift. You know kind of tend to if we're talking like labels. You know I consider us radical unschoolers where the unschooling extends past the education part of it, and I'm sure you can kind of pick that up in some of the things where I'm talking about, where it's not about control, it's about collaboration, it's about, you know, being connected and being together and making sure that they always know they can come to me. So that's been the biggest thing is that our connection, and so that enhances our communication, our problem solving. You know, when there's sibling conflict, particularly with the younger two, it's really cool to see them grow and be able to work out issues, you know, through communicating. And you know where that might look a lot different when kids are in school and they're picking up ways of handling that that aren't healthy ways of handling conflict or handling problems. So yeah, I would say that's, that's the biggest, my biggest takeaway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that. When you look at just there's so many things tearing families in so many different directions, and when you're home together all day, kids are just. They're learning from each other, even in their fighting moments, like if you just step back kind of see how they you know they will work it out eventually or deck each other, but even that's a way of working it out Right. They'll learn from that too. Um, marissa, thank you so much for joining me today. Is there anything that you had kind of thought about talking about before I end it? That you want to make sure you let people know?
Speaker 2:I think the only other thing was, like, you know that when it comes to reporting, you know, like I said, it can be really intimidating, especially when you're in restrictive states like ours. And just to know that, like it is achievable, it is manageable and there are ways to interpret your children's learning into maybe more of those like schooly terms that can fit into the state requirements, and so that it's not like we're not out here faking it like it is real. It just doesn't look like the traditional way of how it's documented. You know, it might not be all a report card, it's just interpreted a little bit differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's part of the unschooling process is like realizing that, because that's what I've. You know, I've asked people before, could you come on and talk about how you report? And they're like oh no, I don't want to get in trouble, but it's like it's. It's nothing to hide, and I do offer unschooling coaching.
Speaker 2:So for anybody out there that's like interested, you know it's on my website, academicanarchycom, and you can reach out to me if any of this resonates. And you know anyone needs a little, a little guidance, a little solidarity getting through. I'm here to help. I love to help people get through this.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I will put that link in the show's description so people can just hop over there. And I love the anarchy. I love it. What was it called? Again, Academic anarchy. That's fantastic. Oh, last question what would you do if one of your kids said I want to go to school?
Speaker 2:Always have the option. It is 100% my kid's choice if they want to go. Last year my oldest contemplated going back. Her best friend, who is a forever homeschooler, decided to try it for the first time ever in her life. She lasted three days. She went back. So, yeah, it was like the last. It was the deadline to submit our paperwork and my daughter ultimately decided no, I'm not going back. For my other kids, like the younger two, obviously they have never been in school. So there's been questions that come up. I just, I just keep it real with them. Like I'll explain, like what it entails. You know, this is like you would have to go this amount of time and they're like immediately turned off. They're like nevermind, like I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 1:And does your daughter, your oldest or the middle ones? Do they think of things like the prom? Or you know homecoming and the football games and you know the Valentine's Day parties or whatever? Do they see those carrots dangling and think, oh, maybe I am missing out on that. Or do they get the bigger picture?
Speaker 2:For my oldest definitely. She definitely, you know, kind of goes in and out between that feeling of like the fear of missing out. She has participated in things like homecoming and going to the football games. Her, like I mentioned, her best friend is also a homeschooler, and her sister as well, who's like part of their friend group. But you know all their other friends are are traditionally public school kids, so they're not like completely excluded from those things.
Speaker 2:It does come up and again, you know, we can just like talk about like you know what are, what are the gaps that that you're feeling are missing? How can we fill those in? Usually, when you get to the root of it, it isn't really about like the surface level image of it. It's usually coming from something deeper. So we're just always like kind of working through those things and they know that they can always go if they change their mind. You know I'm not going to stop them from going. They're free to try it out. Like I always have my own fears and maybe judgments about it, but I don't want to ever impose that on them. I don't think it's going to come up. I think everybody's pretty content with just being home. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Good, all right, marissa, I'm going to put the link to your coaching in the show's description for anyone that wants to check that out. Thank you so much for joining me today. This has been so fun. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the homeschool how to. If you've enjoyed what you heard and you'd like to contribute to the show, please consider leaving a small tip using the link in my show's description or, if you'd rather, please use the link in the description to share this podcast with a friend or on your favorite homeschool group Facebook page. Any effort to help us keep the podcast going is greatly appreciated. Thank you for tuning in and for your love of the next generation you.