#169: Homeschooled, Sheltered & Addicted Young: A Conversation Every Parent Needs to Hear

What happens when someone who hated being homeschooled grows up and chooses to homeschool his own children anyway?

In this deeply honest conversation, Logan Hufford shares what homeschooling looked like growing up in a large family in the 90s, why he resented parts of it for years, and what he’s doing differently with his own kids today.

We also talk about something many parents are afraid to discuss openly: what children are being exposed to online at shockingly young ages — and how silence, shame, and lack of conversation can impact kids long-term.

Inside this episode:
• what Logan wishes his parents had done differently
• how over-sheltering can backfire
• pornography addiction and dopamine-driven behavior
• why vulnerable conversations matter more than perfect parenting
• how to talk to kids without creating shame
• the reality of parenting in the internet era
• resources parents can use to start age-appropriate conversations

This is a sensitive but incredibly important discussion for both homeschooling and non-homeschooling families alike.

Listener discretion advised for younger ears.

Resources:

Good Pictures Bad Pictures

https://www.conquerseries.com- For a man who might be struggling or a woman who is close to a man who struggles, the best single resource to gain an education of how sexual addiction works is the Conquer Series

Follow Logan on Instagram

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Transcript

Welcome And Homeschooling Irony

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome. And with us today, I have Logan Hufford. Logan, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I appreciate giving me the opportunity, Cheryl. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

I love what kind of getting uh into what we're about to talk about because it's almost like it's like the unspoken thing, but it has to exist, right? Like the kids that were homeschooled didn't really enjoy it, which is yourself, correct?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

You're hugely underplaying it. I hated it. I hated being homeschooled. Yeah, it was a it was a huge source of like resentment for me for a long, long time.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Okay. And so that people don't get scared and like click away right now. But what are you doing with your children?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

We're homeschooling our kids and we have been since day one. And it's not, it's not because, oh man, it's the it's the best of bad options. It's been, for the most part, it's been a 180 in terms of my goodness. Like, not only do I see why my parents chose to homeschool, but I've also gained, I mean, I'm 35 years old. My oldest, we had kids young. So my oldest is almost 14 here in a couple of days. I have so much freaking appreciation for the work that my parents put in, especially my mom. She was the primary educator. Um, I mean, I to say that I took for granted the work that she did is, again, underselling it completely. Um, I have I've shared these things with her. I have gone back and we've had really good conversations, but like it was, yeah, it was it was something that I absolutely hated. And yet now I'm like, I'm really, really grateful for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

That's so beautiful. All right. So start out by telling us like, were you homeschooled the whole time? How many siblings did you have?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah. I'm the youngest of five. And I mean, the way I put it is like we were homeschooled before it was cool, before it was seen as like an appropriate option. I mean, even because even before COVID, it started to become a little bit more mainstream, depending on what state you're in, right? Depending on what country you're in. Like here in Alaska, it it's always been pretty homeschool friendly, but it was less homeschool friendly in general, you know, back in the 80s, 90s. Um, my oldest brother is almost 10 years older than me. And so, I mean, you know, my parents started homeschooling him, you know, so that would have been, you know, mid 80s by the time he was kindergarten. And uh, I graduated in 2008. So from what, eight eighty six to two thousand eight, you know, they were they were homeschooling us.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Wow. So the whole time you went through the whole thing homeschooled.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah. Okay. So tell me what I'm saying. I'm quite sure my mom would have homeschooled us through college if she could have figured that one out.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

All right. So and and are you a mix of boys and girls?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, yeah. Three, three sons, two daughters.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Okay. I was gonna say if it was like five boys and mom was still homeschooling.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

We've got four boys.

What Made Homeschooling So Hard

SPEAKER_01 2:32

So You do. You have four boys yourself. Yes. Oh my goodness. All right, so just take me back to like what didn't you like about it, especially with having all those siblings there? You would think like, this is so cool. So walk us through what it was like. What did you resent?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah. Um, man, okay, so even like what you're saying, oh, this is so cool. I'm with my siblings. I get what you're saying, but it's like, man, come on, Cheryl. Like, you know that's not how kids always think, right? Like, I don't want to be around my siblings. I want to be like, I want to go have friends like outside of this, you know, weird family that I've got. You know, right? That's that's certainly some of what I might have been thinking.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

There's goals, I'm sure you were starting to get to the teenage age.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

And yeah, I mean, it was it well, and there's a there's a couple things that I will get into that, like I definitely, I mean, you probably got a little flavor for it as as, you know, as you're introducing me. I'm like, hey, like let's not, you know, I don't want to round the corners here. Like, I really hated it. Like it, I'm not gonna, you know, tone that down. I will, I will definitely be very honest. And everything I'll share with you, I've talked with my parents about. I've talked with my mom about, like, we've had these conversations. As much as I took for granted, and I'm so appreciative now of the work that they did, you know, we're all human, right? I'm a completely fallible human dad. And there's things that I, you know, have done that I wish that I would have done differently, right? Same thing for my parents. So one thing that I do, I mean, I definitely honestly, this is what attracted me to want to reach out to you to talk about stuff is, you know, my my whole story and and what I spend a lot of my time and energy doing, which we can get into, but you know, some of the conversations that we didn't have, some of the over sheltering that that my parents did, that my mom definitely did, where, you know, protect your kids, yes. Try to keep them safe, yes. Keep them away from danger, yes. But at what cost, right? To what level? Which is a really, really tricky thing. And who's a better parent than a 19-year-old without kids, right? Like I was the best parent as a 19-year-old without kids, and I had all that figured out. I realized that, yeah, it's a tricky balance. To some extent, it's gonna be different for every parent, but um, that was something that I do, you know, I wish that they did differently. I don't live in the past, but I wish that they would have um given us a little bit more room to have other experiences of just, you know, more interaction with other people outside of our family. Um, because other than sports, I didn't have, I mean, sports and church, that was it. We lived several miles away from civilization. We had neighbors, but like there was no grocery stores, malls, or anything like that within 10 minutes of our house. So it was basically church once a week, sports. And that was the interaction that I had with anybody that, you know, didn't have the last name of Hufford. But then also conversations. There was a tendency with my parents, both of them. We're I I'm a Christian. I was raised in a, you know, in a family that we went to church every Sunday, but we also, you know, for the most part, we practiced what we what we preached or what we heard from the preacher kind of thing. I I was raised in a good family, but there was definitely the sense of like certain types of sins, certain type of of life issues. We're just gonna kind of put those over there and just don't don't do that stuff. Don't don't make those mistakes. But there wasn't a lot of conversation of why. It was just like, well, because the Bible says not to. That's that.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yes. I think there's a lot of things, especially within, you know, religion and stuff, where it's like families. I grew up Roman Catholic. So you ask a question and it's because the Bible says so. Right. Oh, wait, but but that doesn't make sense. No, the Bible says it. And that's how we interpret it, and that is the way you're gonna take it.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

But mom, can you talk to me about your experiences? Can you talk to me about lessons that you learned? Why, right? Like you wanna as parents, we we should be doing that with our kids.

Social Life And Hard Silences

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yes. And I I wonder how much of that is just that era. Like, were the kids that went to public school were their parents talking to them about it, or were they just doing whatever behind closed doors?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

That's probably how it went. But um But it's interesting. So when did you get to the age of where you started to say, like, oh, I I know another option. There is school and I want to be at it. I'm like, you know, was that more the middle school, high school phase or since day one?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah, I mean, I maybe like as an eight-year-old, I don't know that I was necessarily going, oh, I want to go to elementary school at, you know, whatever elementary school. But pretty much at far as far back as I can remember. I mean, definitely by the time I was 10, 11, 12 years old, definitely as a high schooler, I would have given anything to go to a public school or even a private school. Like I had a lot of friends that played basketball for a local Christian school. I would have loved to attend that school just to, you know, again, for the friendships and for the, you know, for the social opportunities that I just didn't have. Pretty much my entire upbringing, I would have traded anything to not be homeschooled.

Homeschooling With Vulnerability At Home

SPEAKER_01 7:10

So what are you doing differently with your kids?

Technology And Early Porn Exposure

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah. Well, I I feel like I need to say, and this is the truth, but I just need to like say this in like bold font, or I guess I'm speaking it in bold font. The number one thing that I want to do is recognize okay, I don't have it all figured out. So let me be really careful about going, hey, whatever my parents didn't do, let me fix all of that, because that's easier said than done, right? So I'm not, I'm not trying to speak from a place of hubris, acting like, oh, I know it all now. I I don't. I know a couple of things, and there's a whole lot of stuff I don't know. But we, man, we have a lot of conversations with our kids. We are extremely vulnerable with our kids. So we, we, we practice that. Our house is a house that I have been in addiction recovery since my now 10-year-old was a two-month-old. So our kids were raised, you know, you know, my oldest was only a few years old. Our kids were raised and have been raised in a home where a recovery and accountability partners and recovery meetings, and that's that's just that's a part of our life. That's there's no negative stigma. That's us, no, no, that's how we do life is we're vulnerable, we're we talk about struggles, we, we work on things. We don't just talk about it, we be about it. We have mentors, you know, we have people that speak into our lives that that ask us tough questions. So, you know, carrying that forward and having those tough conversations with our kids and sharing, like, hey, so yeah, this thing that I don't want you to do, well, yeah, maybe maybe the Bible does say don't do it. And yeah, I also don't want you to do it. But here's what this has looked like. I, you know, as I messaged you, I mean, a huge part of my story and what I do, you know, working with guys is um pornography addiction. I mean, that's I would there aren't many issues that are more relevant, I think, if we're raising up kids. I mean, I was gonna say middle school. It doesn't have to be middle school. You can be seven, eight years old and you're exposed to that stuff. So I want to be able to have, I want to already be in the habit of having vulnerable conversations with my kids so that when those things come up, I'm not trying to figure out how to have the talk. We're already having the talks. And so we do what we can to to cultivate that.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And that's so important. And I've talked about it on the podcast before, and it's kind of what we talked about before having you on is um, you know, like I grew up in the air. I am 42, so I grew up with no internet, no phones, you know, that in your pocket. I think the internet came along. I was I was already working for the government then and it's it doesn't seem like that long ago, but I remember like getting a text message on my phone when I was in my senior year and saying, Why is the phone writing at me? This is weird.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Right.

Logan’s Recovery Work With Men

SPEAKER_01 9:44

And that was my first text message. And the kid the kids in the class were laughing because they sent it and they're like, Oh, she doesn't know what it is. But I was eight, 17 years old when texting came out. So for me to parent now with little ones, I had kids later in life, but any parent now, you didn't necessarily go through what our kids have the potential of going through. And um, I think we just kind of assume a blind eye to like, yeah, well, no one's gonna show them inappropriate things on the bus or at a friend's house, right? Like that's just not even in your realm of thinking. I mean, it's in my realm of thinking because I'm a worry worker and I I wrote a book on like how to keep your child from dying in an emergency. So this is like already, but this is on my l and in in the book, actually. You know, I wrote about like when people online are telling you something like, hey, I have a bunch of video games I'm giving away. Your parents probably won't well, I mean, I don't say it in these words, but this is what it implies, you know, meet me at the corner because I know your parents aren't really, you know, don't want you to have them. And then lo and behold, you're snatched up and whatever. So like stuff happens, and we do have to talk to our kids before it happens, which is why I wrote that children's book. But your situation, this is something I think about all the time, and I don't hear people talking about it. And it can be just as simple as my kid was on the way to school and somebody was showing them a TikTok or a Snapchat and they swiped and they saw something inappropriate, and and then like I wasn't there to tell to know about it, to talk them through you know what that was, or they're at a friend's house, they're at a cousin's house, and they show them something inappropriate. And you know, it's not that the cousin or the friend is a bad person or a vindictive person, it just means it probably happened to them, and nobody has a conversation with them, so they don't know that it's wrong. And then, you know, in just an era where both parents are working and 50% of marriages end in divorce, it's like there's not a lot of supervision over kids in any ways. So this stuff is prevalent, it is rampant. I know that Ginny Uh from a Thousand Hours Outside podcast, she had somebody talk about a similar thing, and it was like as young as third grade, most kids have seen some form of pornography, I think is what it's like I believe it. So, yeah, how what do you what do you do in the line of work and and and you know, how what are you seeing in the world as far as the inappropriate things that kids are seeing and how it affects them later on?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

For sure. And I I'll just preface with um, so like, you know, my my title on here is you know, is is my Instagram handle, because that's a huge passion of mine. Is so no longer in bondage if if anybody has questions or wants to to learn more about what I do. But I I work with guys in the the space of sexual addiction recovery. Um, and that is for me, I got into recovery in May of 2016 was sexual addiction. So pornography, affairs, it was it was the whole nine yards. It was complete um betrayal that was my life for a lot of years. But it didn't start by having affairs. It didn't start by I want to cheat on my wife. It started with I became addicted to pornography as a kid. And I don't, no part of my story do I, I don't blame others, I don't blame circumstances, I don't blame what I looked at. It, you know, I chose to make choices. But my goodness, if I can cultivate a scenario where if and when my kids see stuff, think about stuff, are told about stuff, tempted by stuff, whatever, I want them to be in a home where they can go and hopefully will go. Dang, like, yeah, I've already talked to my dad about this. I've already talked to my mom about this. Maybe I'm curious, maybe I feel a little bit ashamed, maybe I feel angry, maybe I feel uncertain or scared, whatever, or maybe all those things. I'm not going to just hide all this away because I don't know how to. I'm gonna go talk to my parents. I I can't control what if they do that, right? But I I work really hard and my wife, Carrie, works really hard so that we cultivate an environment where we've already been having conversations about stuff. And things like this are absolutely part of it. Because yeah, for me, again, not shifting blame at all, but for me as an eight, nine, 10-year-old, you know, looking at stuff that I was totally not prepared to see from a brain wiring standpoint, also emotionally, spiritually, everything, I did not feel like, oh, I should go talk to my dad. I should go talk to my mom. Because we'd never had vulnerable conversations about that kind of stuff. Like I've already talked with them about it. Like this is if they, you know, hear this podcast, they're they're not going to be surprised by that. And that's not a resentment I hold. Uh, I don't hold that against them. They people say this, but I mean it. They did the best they could with what they had.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Right. Because they didn't know what probably was even out there and agreeable for you to see at eight or nine years old. It's the same, same idea. It's just instead of probably a magazine, or that's probably when the internet was coming out.

Why Porn Addiction Stays Hidden

SPEAKER_00 14:35

And yeah, for for me, I mean, literally it was. It would, I mean, I'm again, I'm 35, so we're talking late 90s, mid to late 90s. You know, it's like internet was a thing, but it was like dial up, you can't be on the phone and on the computer at the same time, like that kind of thing. You you weren't just like gonna go surf the web and like look at a bunch of stuff. You you didn't have you you didn't have the ability to do that. You it was a very different type of thing. So it was it was some magazines, and then within a couple years, it it started to go into internet searches as well. But yeah, it's in that right there. Like the technology, even in in in my, you know, the last 30 years, 25 years, has changed so much, right? But the principles don't necessarily change. I I really believe that. Like, yes, nowadays you've got what? You've got, I mean, I frankly, I don't know all the stuff and I don't want to know all the stuff because I don't need to. But like with AI and everything, like the capabilities of what people could create when it comes to pornography, just pornography in general has become just, I mean, it's just this whole monster of an industry. Everything's so accessible. So the technology has changed, the accessibility has changed, but the tools and the principles of let me lead with vulnerability, let me be willing to have authentic conversations. And for myself, I mean, this is something that I hold dear to because I know what it is to live on the other side of this. I can speak to my kids not from a place of perfection, but from a place of authenticity because I don't have any secret, you know, hidden shame. I think, no, no, no, I I've done all this crap, I've lived this, I've I've learned a lot of things the hard way. So I'm not speaking from a place of book knowledge, I'm speaking from a place of experience. But I also know that by God's grace and the love of a lot of people that, you know, came into my life, I also know that I'm not in that place anymore. And so that that's a that's a really wonderful place to be able to talk to my kids. If I was still in bondage to pornography, I sure as heck wouldn't want to talk to my kids about it, right? Because it's like I'm still struggling. So who am I to talk to you about it?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Right. And I would imagine, is it the same sort of addiction that one would have with alcohol or crack or you know, anything like that, right? Where you're you're like craving that dopamine hit. And I mean, even with kids today on just the social media, I think they crave it, they crave it. So they're like they have anxious they have anxiety, you know, if it's just a quiet room or even, you know, like a classroom, right? But if at all other hours of the day you're watching screens that are going doing a million different screen changes a minute, those are all dopamine hits. So that then when you're looking at a book, it's like I can't focus. Is it the same sort of chemical brain?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

There are extreme similarities, and of course, there's obviously differences. And I'm and I'm not speaking as an as an expert when it comes to narcotics addiction or or alcohol addiction, but but having all so from that angle, it's mostly book knowledge or or you know, knowledge of other people who have that expertise. But in terms of the way that I mean, so there's a there's a brain scan that one of the the resources that we use in the the recovery group that I lead, the Conquer series, it's a really good resource. If anybody, if you're a mom or a dad and you want to understand how this stuff works scientifically, fantastic resource. And there's they show these brain scans, brain scans of a cocaine addict and a pornography addict. And the the the brain mapping of the pornography addict is so much more corrupted. And basically the the blood flow, there's so many more spaces that have no or limited blood flow in a pornography addict. And that I'm not on your podcast saying, you know, it's better to do coke than it is. Let's not do either one, right? But there are there are ways in which pornography is more destructive. And there's there's all there's also ways in which I'm sure coke is more bit, it's it's none of it's good for you. But one of the most destructive things about pornography, though, and and this is not me as a Christian saying this. This is me as somebody who's just understand understood the science and lived the life as an addict. Pornography doesn't leave track marks. Pornography, you know, there's no smell on my breath, right? Pornography doesn't leave my eyes look in a certain kind of way. I'm not going to fail a sobriety test driving, right? So I can, as a 12-year-old, as a 42-year-old dad, as a what whatever, if I am in bondage to that, it's something that can stay hidden. It can be under the surface. Nobody knows about it other than me and potentially some folks close to me, or maybe not. And yet I am an addict. And I am training myself to chase after what I want, when I want, you know, and all this stuff. And it's absolutely going to suck the life out of me, just as alcohol, various drugs, all of that is going to suck the life out of me. But I can still go to my job every day, right? I can still, you know, physically I can do a lot of the external things that would not point to me having an addiction, which can make it that much more dangerous.

Dopamine Brain Scans And Stunting

SPEAKER_01 19:19

So interesting. Now, all right, like what ages do you think these are appropriate times to start having these conversations with our kids? And does it matter, boy, girl?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I'll be honest, I don't feel crazy quali. And maybe this is me having like a limiting belief. I don't feel super qualified to talk about like, you know, with a girl, like what what, you know, do you have different conversations age-wise? Just and because I don't have daughters. Um, I think that I would think that it probably shouldn't make a huge difference in terms of like when to have those conversations. Cause as you said, seven, eight-year-old, you know, is getting exposed to this stuff on average. But I will say, whatever age, and this is something that I've had to even like, I've had to push back on my own fear or or just like uncertainty. Whatever age you feel like you should wait to to have these types of conversations, go ahead and just shave off a few years. Cause I promise you that's going to be more appropriate. Because there's part of me that would think, like, well, you know, as it's like a 12-year-old, is that kind of when you're starting to think about stuff? And it's like, no, no, as a nine-year-old, on average, you're getting exposed to stuff, or at least you're likely to. And I would rather have the conversation before you're exposed to something or before your friend talks to you about something or shows you something, right? I'd rather we've already started these conversations. And I'm just, these are not my books. I don't get royalties if you buy these books. These are just incredible resources. Good pictures, bad pictures. I don't know if you if you're familiar, it's an incredible resource that again talks about the science of how addiction, specifically porn addiction, although it does delve into addiction in general. And there's good pictures, bad pictures, and then there's a junior version. The the junior version is these books are so incredible. They're done in such a way that if a child is old enough to have conversations, I mean this, if if they're three, four years old, you could read this book with them and it would be a completely appropriate. It doesn't go anywhere that is explicit, the junior version doesn't talk about anything that's explicit. It basically just talks about it from a very principled standpoint of like, I don't know quoting it, but basically the kind of idea of like, you know, should I be showing, you know, the parts of me that take a bath to people that don't know me? Should I other people, you know, it's it puts it better than that, but it's it that's kind of the idea, right? Like just on a very basic level, is this what I should be doing? Does that seem like the right thing? No. And it talks about that. And it talks about, you know, addictions in the in the sense of, hey, if I have a really, really bad habit that hurts me and it hurts people that I care about, and I keep doing that thing, is that good? Like, no, like that, that's that's addiction, right? Again, it puts it much better than that I'm remembering it right now. But that's the junior version and then the regular version. Is not crazy, crazy, you know, it's not like you have to be super, super smart or super, super into all this stuff. It's basically just it goes deeper. So good pictures, bad pictures is an incredible resource for anybody that wants to understand more about and then teach their kids how to have these conversations around pornography, sexuality, all of that.

When To Start The Talk

SPEAKER_01 22:19

So, okay, this is something I'm curious about because I mean, I didn't grow up with brothers. I have a brother now that I know about, but we did not grow up together. Okay. And I have a son who's seven. But I'm thinking now, like, there will be times that, you know, kids are doing stuff in their room and it's like you don't want to put shame around it. But how do you know as the parent, like what's appropriate and what is not? Can you tell me like talk a little bit about what that conversation would be like?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yeah. Um, I'm I'm gonna be, I'm always gonna be authentic. So I'm gonna be brutally honest with you. Specifically, what you're referring to, I I struggle with knowing how to have those conversations. Just like I said before, I try to keep the lines open. I try to make sure that I'm always, you know, hey, we're we're used to talking about all different types of things. But I also struggle with like, oh man, like what's the right question to ask? What's the right thing to say? What's the perfect question? Right. It's like, uh, I don't know if there's a perfect question. I think it's more about let me just let me just make sure that the lines of communication are are open and questions they may have. I so my focus really is just like I said before, I just want to make sure that the lines of communication are open. And to your point, yeah, no matter what they are are dealing with, have questions about what they're going through. I don't ever want them to live in a state of shame, right? Period. Even if they've done something wrong, right? Even if they've hurt somebody. I don't want them to live in a state of shame. But I mean, these are definitely, these are, these are my feelings. And I have had these conversations with my boys. Um, I want to be careful anytime I'm giving control of my impulses over to a habit, right? Um, and again, I can, I could speak from this as a Christian, but I don't, I'm not going to because I I don't think it needs to come from a faith-based standpoint. I think just as a human being, I better be really, really cautious before I engage in an activity that is going to require more and more of me over the course of time in order to get that same good feeling. Now, this this could apply to video games, candy, drugs, right? It applies to pornography. So, you know, I'm not coming on anyone's podcast to say like what people should or shouldn't do. It's that's really not my place. My place is, you know, I always share my story and I share, you know, what these things look like. But for just like we talk about with screen time, there are certain things that, especially as a young age, at a young age, if I start giving control of my impulses over to habits, that extrapolates. And so that doesn't, that doesn't tone down as I get older. It's going to ramp up as I get older. And it it creates huge issues if I am, you know, if I I'm in a relationship and I'm used to having the things that I want when I want them and all that. And we can expand on that or you can cut all that out. But it's definitely a, it's a, it's a tricky thing. But but to your point, yeah, I I don't want them to live in a state of shame. I want them to be able to come, ask questions, talk about stuff. And even with my kids, I try really hard not to preach at them and tell them all the things that they should or shouldn't do. I try within reason to speak from a place of I statements, right? And of like, in my experience, here's the lessons I've learned. You can take from that as much as you want, and we can talk about it as much as you want.

Shame Curiosity And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah. And you know, I think we're living in this era now too, with the Epstein stuff. And I think people's eyes are opening up to like, this is bigger than it's bigger than Epstein's Island. And it is, it's a huge thing. So there's also like, I think when we have the conversations with our kids, I think people shy away because we don't know what to say. And you don't want to say the wrong thing. And you don't also, we we think, I think too, that our kids are so innocent. So if we say something, it's gonna spark a curiosity and then they're gonna go searching for us.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

And my to his credit, like my dad will tell you, because he's he's told me, like that was a big concern for him, is he did not want to share stories, even including lessons that he learned. He didn't want to share stories that might, you know, get our minds going about things that, and again, I don't hold resentment. I I've I've had good conversations now since then. Where I'm like, well, I I I wish you would have opened up about like about stuff because you could have also shared all the lessons that you learned. But you know, I we can't change the past. All we can do is move forward. But yeah, that I I totally get it. I mean, that definitely I think is a common concern, and it it was for my dad. And I I think for my mom, it was more of just, you know, she just kind of hoped that like if we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist. We're just not gonna talk about certain things. And again, you know, we've had those conversations too. It's like, oh, that's not that's not how it works.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

But it's ironic that you were homeschooled so they could protect you, and then like you end up seeing something so young. Do you think have you looked into the research at all at what seeing things that you're not age appropriate, uh, that are not age appropriate for you, what that does to the brain?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah. So I'll I'll stay pretty high level here and I'll just say like, if if people want to know more, reach out. We can definitely talk about it, or you know, check out the Conquer series or check out good pictures, bad pictures if you're more of wanting to like educate your kids, because those go really deep on what happens to my brain in addiction, but specifically with pornography, sexual addiction. Number one, and and this is true of every addiction that I know of. So this includes narcotic addiction and alcohol, but with pornography addiction, once it basically has a hold of me. Now, exactly how to scientifically quantify that. I don't know what that would that means, but once it has a hold of me, and I can tell you this, every addict can tell you about what age that was, right? Um, so like for me, it would that would be about age 12. Once it has a hold of me, my growth is stunted. Not physically. I mean, well, I mean, physical, there's physical evidence, but it's in my brain. There's a reason why, and I don't say this with any mockery, but there's a reason why if you think about folks that you know who kind of just act like 40-year-old, 50-year-old version of a 10-year-old, 12-year-old, 14-year-old, oftentimes there's addiction crossover there. It's that's not coincidental. So it's not, it's not a coincidence. And it's sometimes it's going to be more obvious than than other times, but yeah, you there's emotional, psychological, and physiological stunting that happens when somebody enters into addiction. Again, to the to the point where it has a hold of them. They, they, they are now entering the point where they've tried to stop. They are trying to stop. They can't seem to stop. So that's kind of that's when it's got a hold of you, right? You're no longer dabbling. Now, it's it's not permanent in a way. I mean, there is permanent damage in a way, but there's some of that can be reversed. I mean, neural pathways can be rewired, which is a beautiful thing in some ways. As much as like there's some really depressing stuff that, you know, stats and just stuff that's out there when it comes to addiction, especially sexual addiction. There's also incredible beauty in just recovery because of some of the stuff that we're learning now about how our brains work and how we can rewire our brains, literally. Like that's not a metaphor. But yeah, it, it, it's a really, really sad thing that yeah, it's like when when if I'm 12 years old, I enter into addiction, so much of my social, physiological, spiritual growth has become stunted. And until I got into recovery, which you know had to start with sobriety, right? The lack of acting out, but then also actually going through and processing and healing, going through my inventory. And I mean, for me, it was a two-year program and then ongoing. I mean, recovery's never left my life. So that healing has been able to take place over these last 10 years, but it's not, you know, it's not been quick and it's not been easy. Um, and it's not totally linear either. It's it's you know, it's like the stock market, you know, it's it's going in an upwards fashion over time, but it there's all kinds of volatility too.

Screens Ads Horror And Desensitizing

SPEAKER_01 30:17

It's so interesting because I I just think most people don't think of pornography or sexual anything as addictions. It's more like the drugs, the alcohol, and even screens. I feel like we're willing to accept screen addiction more than this. And I think this is probably super common, but something people, because we don't talk about it, nothing's done about it. So then I'm wondering how many people just go through their lives kind of like suffering with this, like the demon inside that, you know, um, you don't think of, oh, I'm gonna go into recovery for this, or I don't have a problem. It's just a phase I'm going through, or you know, this relationship I'm in, or because I'm not in a relationship and people aren't even aware that there is one help or two, you know, that we should be talking to our kids, especially in a world where it's no longer like you have to be 18-year-old to buy a Playboy magazine at the grocery market. It's like it's literally on the school bus anywhere your kid is. It's um just crazy times we live in.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

So it's on the home screen of the smart TV, right? I mean, you're a couple clicks away almost anywhere you are.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Yeah, I am surprised when I turn on and we don't even have like television, but it's Roku. So even like the advertisements that are up there, how inappropriate, whether it's a scary thing or a sexual thing, are right on there. And it's like, my goodness. Even we would be watching Little House on the Prairie, and that was through, I think um Peacock was the ad that you can watch it through. So here we are on like a family show, and they were having ads for sexual things were like to change your gender. Right. Like, oh my god, the kids are right here. What are you doing? One was for like a horror movie, and that's probably another thing too. Right of the the horror stuff, like similar to kind of the brain chemistry thing, like watching the horror movies from a young age and not just like having a proper understanding of it and and sensitivity too.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I I mean, I think connecting both of those, right? A healthy rawness, a healthy sensitivity to the fact that like sex is a beautiful thing, but it's for a sp I mean, it's for specific time and place. It's not for an eight-year-old or a five-year-old to be watching and learning about. I'm a I'm a big fan of certain types of horror movies. I don't like like, I don't want to see, you know, certain types of horror movies. I don't want to see stuff with kids, you know. But like, you know, a good, a good horror movie, cool, I'm I'm all about it. But my four-year-old doesn't need to be watching that, you know, in in either case, it's a sensitivity or desensitizing of, you know, whether it's, you know, somebody dying or whatever stuff that you're gonna see in a in a horror movie. It's interesting. I never thought about the two, but yeah, there is definitely an oversaturation that can happen that can definitely lead to lead to some some not good effects.

Hope Resources And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Well, I thought of it because I was talking to someone that, you know, was telling me that they were having these had always had these issues with their spouse. And she said, and at a young age, he would watch horror movies that were just inappropriate for i excuse me, for what his brain was ready for. And almost like she had looked into how the wiring works, and I I thought that was quite interesting. And maybe as coping mechanisms for things that you know we're going through. This has been a super interesting conversation. And I'm gonna link the book um that you mentioned to the good picture, bad picture, junior so that people can just go on it and look at that and hopefully grab that so that we can talk to our kids in a comfortable way and all of your resources. But is there anything that you wanted to make sure that you talked about today or to leave us with?

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I mean, you you hit on it, but I just I guess I just want to circle back on it and emphasize because it's huge. Um, and this could be, I mean, I I would assume the the, you know, your your primary like avatar is probably a homeschooling mom. That's my assumption, right? Anyone who is listening, if you do not personally have this struggle or you feel like this issue doesn't really personally connect to you. Maybe you're a college student who doesn't struggle with this and you don't even have kids, and you're just listening to Cheryl because you're awesome and you want to learn. I promise you, you have somebody close to you that does. You have somebody close to you that would benefit from not just this conversation, but just understanding this idea that number one, pornography and sexual addiction is a very, very real thing that is incredibly destructive and it can be really hidden. But and you hit on it and it's so huge, Cheryl. Number two, that there's hope that, you know, if I do struggle with this, because we know about alcohol recovery resources, and this isn't trying to minimize other addictions, but like we we we kind of know about that stuff. We've known about that stuff. The idea for there being recovery and healing, and how you know, for the wife, my wife has been in recovery for almost as long as I have for betrayal trauma. You know, it's a heck of a thing to have your spouse cheat on you for years, right? Infidelity online as well as physically. And but there are healing outlets and resources for that. A lot of people do not realize. So I hope that this can, you know, put a spotlight on the appropriate stuff that it needs to put a spotlight on, but also the fact that, yeah, there is healing available. There, there are resources available. Nobody, the way I always put it, you know, from the guy's perspective, is like nobody has to be stuck in that deep dark cave of addiction. And not only are there other guys that have been in that cave, there's also lots of guys that are outside of the cave that are living in freedom. And yeah, it takes time, it takes work, it's not a quick and easy fix, but healing and recovery is possible. So no matter who's listening and and where they're at on this, I promise you this this is relevant.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, it definitely is. And it's something to open the lines of communication with your kids about sooner rather than later, because yeah, you do want to be the first one they go to when they have questions, when they've seen something that they can't process. Definitely, definitely are and to think that it can't happen to homeschooled kids is obviously naive because if it happened back in the nineties when internet was not as huge as as it is today in social media, then it can definitely happen now anytime, even if your child is homeschooled. So I hope you found some benefit to this conversation today. Everybody, thank you for listening. And Logan, thank you so much for joining us and talking about this. I will put all of your links in the show's description.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Thanks, Cheryl.