Situationship to Soulmate
This podcast is for YOU if: You're feeling stuck in the cycle of hurtful and harmful dating and intimacy experiences. If you feel like no matter how hard you try, you just can't stop making the same mistakes over and over again in your romantic relationships. If you are over "hookup culture" and "situationships", but seem to still attract people who can only give you that level of commitment. If all the people you date and sleep with have one thing in common: they inevitably leave you feeling hurt, confused, and betrayed.
Situationship to Soulmate
Discussing Dynamics in Polyamorous and Queer Relationships w/ Rowan and Cal
This week's episode includes special guests Rowan and Cal, both queer, non-binary and trans, and polyamorous. They share their personal relationship story which began while Rowan was married, and share the unique challenges they've had and discoveries they've made together throughout their relationship.
We dive deeply into the complexities, misconceptions and societal views surrounding polyamorous and queer relationships and identities. We examine the dynamics in both monogamous and polyamorous relationships, and the importance of communication, consent, honesty, and trust in navigating any relationship structure.
Rowan and Cal share their personal journeys with gender, sexuality, and relationship structures, their coming out processes, and how this relationship has helped them each to discover themselves in a deeper way. They offer invaluable insights into maintaining a relationship while undergoing personal transitions, and the need for understanding and support in our lives. Don't miss this enlightening conversation that not only challenges societal norms but also opens up new perspectives on love, identity, and relationships.
Follow me on TikTok and Instagram @shamelesslyshelly + @situationshiptosoulmate
Welcome to the Situation-Ship to Soulmate podcast. I'm your host, shelly, content creator, mental health counseling graduate student and a trained sex and relationship coach. After going through a lot of traumatic, unhealthy and toxic experiences throughout my 20s, I'm finally ready to use what I've learned over the years to help those of you who are still experiencing it. I went from situationships, bad hookups and settling for less than I deserved to finding my soulmate, all within one year. Let's help you get there too. Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 1:I am so excited for everyone to listen to this episode. It is maybe my favorite episode I've done so far, just because I got to collaborate with some awesome people. I have Rowan and Cal on that podcast today and Rowan is my friend from first grade. We've been friends since we were like six years old, which is crazy, and Cal is Rowan's partner. So I've gotten to know Cal over the past year or two and they have also become one of my close friends.
Speaker 1:So I asked Rowan and Cal to be on the podcast because they both A are super open and willing to be vulnerable about different topics, which is kind of important, especially the topics we're talking about on this episode. They are things that not everyone would be open or willing to talk about, and so I really appreciate that. They were both super down to have these conversations and, yeah, I decided to have them on the podcast because they have a very kind of interesting and nuanced and unique relationship in a few different ways and they both also have been on their own kind of transition or journey with their gender identities, their sexual identities and just kind of finding themselves and learning more about themselves over the past few years. So I want to be able to talk about experiences and things that I haven't myself experienced, because I know that other people out there will definitely relate to it or at least, at the very least, they will learn something from it. So, yeah, really excited for you all to listen to this episode. So, without further ado, let's jump into the episode.
Speaker 2:Hi, my name is Cal and I usually use they, them pronouns. I'll throw a he in there occasionally.
Speaker 3:I'm Rowan. I use exclusively they, them pronouns. That means that if you mess up I won't correct you because I'm socially awkward but need to be done about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you two are in a relationship and so I actually met Cal through Rowan. I've known Rowan for a very long time but, yes, cal and Rowan are in a relationship. They're both queer and also poly, so there's a lot of interesting aspects of your identities and kind of influence, I'm guessing relationships and dating and everything. So, yeah, do you want to share a little bit about your relationship and how being poly and queer and non binary and everything kind of or trans sorry, I'm over thinking, no, you're good, yeah, it's totally fine to ask, like clarifying questions and stuff.
Speaker 3:We both consider ourselves trans and non-binary. There are a lot of non-binary people who don't, who are like I'm non-binary, I'm not trans, which?
Speaker 2:for me, it's like about deciding to go on a transitionary journey. Whatever that looks like, it doesn't have to include hormones. I mean minded or is, but I think it can be more broad than that, like anyone who's like, all right. So we're going off to transition into something new, whether that be non-binary or the opposite side of the binary or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so for us, and also just like kind of in general, we're pretty open-minded and open to discussion, especially like in this format. So, like, I guess, don't worry too much about it, I'm not shy.
Speaker 2:The questions will tell you if you're wrong, you know yeah. But yeah, and you're already, I'm not worried about it. Like you're not in a category of person that I'm worried is going to have an uncomfortable like it, even if it wasn't yeah yeah, but yes, for us, we are both. We both use the non-binary and the trans and as far as the poly of it all like our relationship actually started while you were married.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was married to someone who is also under the non-binary umbrella, but we were presenting more as a heteronormative couple whatever that means I was presenting more female. At the time I was using she-they pronouns then.
Speaker 2:Which that surprised me, when your friend of ours was actually on a date with. Rowan and we like ran into each other and I was like, oh my gosh. And so we all like kind of combined our groups, you know, and when we went around the circle to introduce, like I remember Rowan poking their head up and being like Rowan she-they, and I was like that is not a she-they.
Speaker 2:Like I was like obviously I don't get to decide Right, but like in the moment, I was like that feels like a they-the, but I support you in your dreams. And so like, yeah, I feel like I was they, them and you from the beginning. But because, like, also, anytime anyone gives like he, they or she they, most of the time people ignore them they, unless you're like trans, and then they default to the they Because, like, people are getting uncomfortable.
Speaker 3:And I was also very much in the like. I choose to use she-they because I know people will default to she and. I don't want to be mad about it.
Speaker 2:Which pair.
Speaker 3:So I'm just going to keep that one there so that I can not be mad about it. But then I got to this place where I was like well, I still am mad about it, so maybe I should just lose that.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's a pretty common thing, because I was also a she-they for a minute there. Well, I was a she parentheses or they, if you feel like it because I was like so pretending to be a loop about everything I was like. I don't care gender spake, which like fair and true, but I did have feelings about it.
Speaker 1:So, it's like kind of funny.
Speaker 2:Anyway, yeah, but we met when you were still with your then husband and we dated for a while while you were in that relationship and that was fine and nice. And then that relationship kind of started ending like while we were dating, which for me that was very interesting.
Speaker 2:I've never been in a poly situation where, like another relationship was ending. It's particularly a marriage. That was like weird, that was great, like I mean you guys were really respectful and everything. But like it was interesting to like just start dating someone and then see them go something through something like so hard yeah. But I also feel like seeing how you handled that like helped me feel secure in our relationship because I was like, oh well, like I feel like you see someone at their worst when they're breaking up with someone and like ending a marriage is like one of the top three like most traumatic events or whatever. I was like well, they were respectful to each other.
Speaker 3:They're not like like I mean, there's a little bit of sloppiness, but I feel like that's fair.
Speaker 2:Like you know, like you're allowed to be a little sloppy when you're going through it. So for a minute I was like, oh, but then you all like really got it together and like it was just a really respectful process and we're still friends with Matt and Matt was like just at our house, like literally.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah. So we just did Thanksgiving dinner at my parents house and it was me, Cal and Matt, you know, yeah, yeah, what's that was fun.
Speaker 2:It honestly was. It was really fun. I made your parents feel awkward but that's fine. Well, because you and Matt were like playfully bickering and I was like y'all are bickering like an old married couple, and then I like, grinned, like, should we acknowledge the elephant in the room? And they're both like shut the fuck. But I was like hoping that would sort of like break the ice a little. But your parents were just like crickets. We thought it was funny.
Speaker 3:I thought it was funny.
Speaker 3:And honestly my parents love making little snide comments about that, so I thought they would love it, but apparently not. Obviously, nobody gets married with the intention of giving to force, so and that was also not my plan either, Obviously, but it was. I do feel like we handled it as best we could. You know, like caveat caveat. You know everyone's going to have regrets, but I do feel like, ultimately, best case scenario really did come out and it was. It is a hard dynamic to when you are starting a new relationship and ending a relationship. Obviously, that wasn't, definitely wasn't the plan. Yeah, it was not ideal.
Speaker 3:I would say but yeah it was. You know, I did kind of I feel like set us up to be really good about like setting boundaries. It did yeah.
Speaker 2:And there was a sloppy period on my end for a while where, like I didn't know what boundaries I needed because I had never been in this situation before, and so we talked about that and I was like I don't really know what my boundaries are around it, and that's hard. And we kind of just went from there. So, yeah, it forced a lot of discussions. We talked about our values, we had a lot of hard talks too, so I had to really learn, like, what my boundaries were because for a while there because you were having such big feelings.
Speaker 2:I was like really mistrustful of Matt. I got my own problems with like men presenting folks which Matt is not a man but like in my eye not knowing them very well, like it. Just my emotional response was definitely tied to that and like they just like kept it, made me so mad at the time. They kept being just like perfectly pleasant towards me.
Speaker 1:How dare you be so nice and I was like I want to not like you, and they just made it so freaking impossible Now you're having Thanksgiving with the whole family.
Speaker 2:We moved in together soon. That was another one. The whole thing that was hard for me, yeah.
Speaker 3:It was like Cow's Leafs did, and I was separating from a partner and we shared one bedroom, tiny home. And so I, I needed a place to live, they needed a place to live, and we were kind of just like who wants to do it? I was a little bit more on board, yeah.
Speaker 2:You were like let's just do it. And I was like that is how relationships end. I panicked, I like got really avoidant, because like I.
Speaker 2:I like my attachment style, I would say, is like kind of disorganized, like I can get really insecure on one hand, but then I can also like want to cut and run and I would say I lead and avoid it like just a little bit, so like I was getting triggered and then wanting to cut and run and like that's like kind of hard when you're trying to sign a lease. Asking for space is really hard for me, but it's something I really need and so that's something I'm still working on.
Speaker 2:It was like hello, I don't want to hang out. I didn't like both letting you have feelings about that and like not feeling like I did something wrong, and also advocating for myself like that has been a big part of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would definitely say in terms of like. Obviously any relationship should have communication and should be able to set boundaries. Yes, I think discovering polyamory for me was, you know, it was first posed to me before Kal and I started dating. As you know, people cheat in all relationships, but with polyamory you can do it with consent you know, that's a weird way to present that.
Speaker 2:It's the first part of the clause that I don't like. Yeah, I know it's like everyone cheats in relationships, do they? I don't think that's true, probably not. I think a lot of people have healthy monogamous relationships where they don't do consent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is that. So it's like you know, just that permission almost to, or permission slash, promise, commitment to honesty and communication and just asking for your needs, which is your seventh really any relationship should have and I would say probably most good relationships do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think poly forces your hand because there's also like clear expectations for me and Polly about like where responsibility lies. So, like you, polly is not going to work if you can't take ownership of your own feelings. Polly is not going to work if your partner can't take ownership of their own feelings. If you can't self suit, if you can't like oh, I'm feeling insecure. My partner has a date, okay, are you going to ruin their date by like, which, like you know, might be an option, like depending on what y'all's agreement is, and like how far along you know or like. Are you going to like for me, I know, play some video games or you would probably like order steak or something.
Speaker 2:Like. Not wrong, though, like you, do some self care you know, whereas in a monogamous relationship. I feel like there's like. I always think of it as like safety rails, but I don't, I don't think it's that simple because I used to have like kind of a bias against monogamy. So I don't think it's that simple. I don't think that there's not any challenges in monogamous relationships, but I or maybe I'm missing, I don't know. What do you think like from the monogamous perspective? I am actually curious, like what your thoughts are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, no, I think you are right that, like a lot of monogamous relationships, you don't, yeah, you don't feel as like force not, force is not there. But yeah, like you said, like it's with Pauly, it sounds like it's like you kind of have to talk about a lot of things and what your boundaries are and consent to all and like, oh you know, I know from Rowan and other people I've talked to that it's like every, obviously every Pauly relationships a little bit different as far as like what you're okay with or who you both agree is you can date and different things like that. I definitely feel like my, like my current relationship. We've talked like way more than I ever have before about stuff of like different things that make us uncomfortable or like what do we consider like disrespectful?
Speaker 1:Or I mean a big one I think I've talked to this maybe in another episode, but a big one for me was like I always had a hard time with the idea of him having a lot of female friend or like friends that are women, like cis women, and I think I had to kind of unpack that of like my issues around like times that I have been in past relationships where I did feel like like I dated someone who the person he had dated, like right before we started dating, was like one of his best friends, who was a woman, and like so I felt like uncomfortable that he was still really close friends with her, because I was like, oh, literally, like a few weeks ago you were considering dating her and then kind of chose me, quote unquote, over her, but I was like, are there still any lingering feelings there? Like I dated someone who, like he still had some dating apps on his phone. Oh, I just forgot to delete and here you are remembering.
Speaker 2:You can't be like we'll just delete them, because then he'd be like well, we're crazy controlling. But I feel like the compassionate thing to do in that moment if that's actually what happened is like oh, I did forget, like just yeah, it was kind of like I mean I could just delete them right now you're insecure? Yeah, it's your problem.
Speaker 1:I would like that, but it feels like I shouldn't have to tell you more about the dishonesty in that moment yeah it's like that you didn't forget to delete them, because again and you just remember your spot
Speaker 1:so he instigated, instigated us having a break, taking a break and I remember I specifically asked him like okay, so while we're on this break, um, or like, what does a break mean to you? I think that's what I asked him. Like, are we like, are you going to date or have any sexual or anything with other people? Or, and he was like and he specifically said, which is ironic about the dating app, cause he was. He specifically was like oh no, I'm not going to be like swiping on dating apps, if that's what you're asking. He did end up, um, matching with someone on a dating app and going on a date with them, and he was like, well, but nothing happened. And I didn't even like her at all. And I'm like well, what if you had liked her? That's not the point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is like out of pocket and messed up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of to your point, is like stuff like that is like most people I think would agree like oh, that is really messed up. But then it's almost like when it's just assumed you're in an August relationship. You don't always talk about that Like I guess we had never had that relationship, Cause that would also be out of pocket to be clear in a poly relationship.
Speaker 2:If you are weird and shady about it, like that, like if you were like yeah, let's take a break. Like I've been on a break with a partner before and like we weren't really specific about that, but like that's just cause we were I didn't it was a bad relationship, to be honest but like if I had initiated that break, cause I wasn't the one that initiated it and if I had them, like oh no, like I'm not going to be swiping on dating apps. Like yeah, that's. Like okay, you're trying to lie by omission, but like no, the people that you talk to are not dumb. Like they know that. Probably what you meant is that no, I'm reassuring you, I'm not going to be going on dates. I'm not going to be. It's not literally to. And then you did the actual thing you said you weren't going to do Like that's just lying, lying is the same, gaslighting is the same. And like Polly and monogamous relationships.
Speaker 2:And I feel like that's a big misconception about Polly. Is that like people think like oh, you can just do whatever you want you like you want the best of both worlds, and it's like you really can't like you and I have a commitment. Ro and I have a commitment to living together and to being like I don't like the term primary partner, but like we do share a home together.
Speaker 3:We do, and therefore we are on a legally binding lease together.
Speaker 2:Like there are things, like we have three cats, which are not children, but like we can take them to the vet. Yeah, you know, like like there are. We depend on each other.
Speaker 3:We do depend on each other. There are like financial Situations, like things that we, you know future plans, future plans yeah, that we've made, or I'm not, I don't have another partner. Like I've been on a couple, I've been on like a couple of days and stuff, but we don't have another partner. That means that if I were to get one, we have more of a history, but I don't want to say that Cal is more important than someone else because no one wants to feel like they're less important in a relationship.
Speaker 3:That means that, like, not everyone is looking for the same thing. So healthy Holly dates when you're first dating someone.
Speaker 3:And in my opinion, healthy, what I need to feel secure. Um start, I kind of think about it like a little bit like a job interview, because you are, you know, kind of sussing out if your needs are going to align with this other person's. Because if I know that I live with Cal and I don't really want to, we don't really want to bring someone else into our home. I have to make sure that the other person, if they're getting into a relationship with me, are okay, knowing that they probably will never Move in when things can change, and that is okay. But I also just wouldn't want anyone coming into a relationship with this expectation of like.
Speaker 3:So taking our relationship out of it, going back to talk about when I was married and wasn't planning on changing that, and there were several people that I dated during that time who, like, we truly sat down and it was like, hi, this is what I can offer, what are you looking for? And it was sort of like does that align? And, honestly, when people are like, oh, that's not really what I'm looking for, but I can settle for it, I'm kind of like yeah maybe not, you know um, because I don't want to start any like resentment type things.
Speaker 3:you know, um, and I have in the past gone on dates with people who are like, oh, I'm not really Polly, but I'm willing to try and I've done that I've never done that. I don't know if I want to.
Speaker 2:I then, that's a hard one, because I do feel like you kind of have to have training wheels for your first Polly experience, because it's hard. Like my first insecurities like those very first, like oh God, the person I love, someone else, that shit like I like. Now it's like it gets less and less as you like you work through your belief systems and you practice self-care and like you figure out what makes you feel secure in a relationship and what you need and what you want, and once all that's figured out it's not that bad.
Speaker 3:But yeah, no, I think that. I think that there's definitely a difference between someone who's like hi, I am new to polyamory. I think I'm Polly. I want to try this. But just a heads up, I don't have a lot of experience, I'm like that's fine.
Speaker 1:Golden, I would be like great.
Speaker 3:Been that person before like everybody starts somewhere, like everybody has a first relationship.
Speaker 2:I got some book recs for you or podcasts if you're not a reader.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know like more specifically, like you are talking about, like the someone who's like oh, you know what, I'm not Polly, but I'm into you, and so like, let's just give it a whirl. I'm like the giving it a whirl sounds like maybe something that you're going to resent me for later, and it's kind of fair.
Speaker 2:Or like or like you're. You know you're gay and I'm straight, but I could be try to be gay for you or, I guess more accurately, like a gay person. Trying to be straight for someone would be more, because I feel like it doesn't happen the other way that often.
Speaker 1:But I guess it sounds just very like Situation should be like it's like kind of when someone is like hey, oh, they said but it's like if someone was like hey, like do you want to date?
Speaker 3:And they're like I'm not really looking for a relationship right now, and you're like, oh, ok, that's fine, I'll just sort of write it out. You know, I like, I kind of and I'm not saying this is always true but I kind of sometimes get the impression that people are like hoping that they'll be the one to like oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And think about like our culture sets us up for that, especially men and young boys like. Think about what culture says about, like if a woman says no or no. Thank you or not at this time, especially a soft boundary, like not at this time, or like I'm not looking for a relationship right now, might seem like a oh, by your time. You know, work put in the friendship which is messed up and they should take ownership of that. Men need to take ownership of that cultural thing and get get rid of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was one thing that I was curious about, about like figuring out that your poly. Does it feel similar at all to like realizing like your queer, or that you like your gender identity, or is it all kind of, does it all feel very different as far as like-?
Speaker 2:Like is it a similar coming out process? I?
Speaker 3:feel like for me it is.
Speaker 2:Was it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know that a lot of people.
Speaker 3:It's like a hot topic you know, like a lot of people don't, and are like, no, being poly is a lifestyle choice versus being queer is not a choice. For me, I would say it's both an identity thing, like I have always liked multiple people, Like from high school, and even I feel like if I'd been aware of polyamory in high school not that anyone I dated would have been cool with it, but like I wouldn't have been so confused because, like I remember, I'd be in relationships and then I'd get feelings for someone else and be like, oh well, I guess I don't like my partner that much, so I guess I should break up with them because if I feel this strong of attraction for someone else, then obviously I must not love this person.
Speaker 3:And so we'd kind of break up and I feel like I cycled through that a little bit until I like learned that. Well, what I actually learned is someone one time was like hey, did you know some people, when they like someone, it's not possible for them to like someone else that I was like that doesn't make any sense to me at all and I was like no, I did not know, that's how.
Speaker 1:I've always felt actually, it's always less sense. I'm like, oh yeah, that is how I've always been like. Yeah, I think I've always been like, oh yeah, when I like someone, I'm like very focused on that one person. And then, but I, yeah, I've had friends like you and other people who have been like. I always remember when I was younger, especially being like, oh, they have like crushes on so many different people and like I feel like I'm only ever focused on one person, Like yeah, I think for me that was kind of my recognition of like.
Speaker 3:Oh, maybe this is a not like, it's part of my wiring like you know, like, however, like, and I think that, yes, I think that there are people. I mean, there's probably a lot of people who choose to be monogamous, who like and or develop crushes on other people.
Speaker 2:I think that's awesome.
Speaker 3:And then part of that is just the agreement to not act on it. But I think for me I was like, oh okay, I'm not kind of when I started thinking about you know what, if you could just act on it with? That ties into that consent piece of like, but everyone involved is on board with that you know and is able to express their feelings and get their needs met.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, wild.
Speaker 3:And so I think, yeah, in that way, for me it is was a discovery identity thing.
Speaker 2:Thinking back to my formative years and I didn't know how confused I was because I mean, if you think about it like I was a trans, non-binary person who leans masculine like I want to. Like, I was deeply dysphoric with my body going through puberty in a very like I want to look like a guy kind of way, but I didn't have the language or the like knowledge to even process any of that, so that was just sort of there. When I had crushes, it was like I feel like I need to have a crush, you know, because I felt like it was all directed towards other boys because I like thought I was a girl at the time and was presenting as a girl and so I would just like I remember I picked, I would just like pick a guy that I felt like I should have a crush on, first boyfriend, like we had feelings but it was like a developed love. You know he was like a really good friend and I like developed love and care, but it wasn't like chemistry when you first meet someone.
Speaker 2:You know kind of got into the polysphere late college when I was. I discovered queerness first, as like I'm pretty sure that I'm, at least by, really like girls, but I'm also fluid in my sexuality. So I was very confused about that because sometimes I'd be like eww girls, ah guys, the vice versa. Sometimes I would be like oh girls, eww guys, you know, like whatever, and that was confusing but I was kind of unpacking that I was getting there. You know, I was doing my little Tinder phase. Like through that and through exploring bisexuality is actually how it's introduced to Paul, my really good friend, slash, kind of friends with benefits situation I had going on her and her partner were Polly.
Speaker 2:Well, we're non monogamous. They weren't even Polly, it was just like ethical non monogamy, like sleeping with other people, casualty, so that kind of thing and I was like fascinating and I like I feel like I took, I looked at it from a philosophical standpoint for a long time, like not even considering my own identity because I think I hadn't self actualized enough to even know, to even think about who I might be attracted to. And then I like asked them a lot of questions and they ended up being subjects for my first research paper, which was on relationship building in Polly, and I, like it, did a couple of in depth interviews with them and this other couple I knew that was consensually non monogamous, which I ended up I ended up dating later. Listen, omaha is a smaller town. Okay, the Polly group like it's like there's like five of them there, you know.
Speaker 2:So like of course, I dated them all but, like you know, I recorded these in depth interviews and like asked them about how Polly was and looked at it from that angle and in that time I kind of was Polly but I was more just like single and having friends, of benefits and like talking to people and like exploring yeah, this is a very long winded way of saying like I feel like I entered into the poly sphere through academia and I don't know. I just feel like I've been on this long journey of trying to figure out who the hell I am always and Polly has always been. Polly has felt easier to me than other parts of my identity to accept because it feels logical and it feels ethical to me.
Speaker 2:Like it feels like why would I want to restrict someone I love in any way, really and same? Like I shouldn't have to restrict myself from becoming the full and best version of myself and whatever that looks like.
Speaker 3:Now.
Speaker 2:I do feel like Polly is a part of my identity, but I couldn't tell you if it's like more philosophical or more of an identity. This feels. It just feels like it's the relationship structure that's always made the most sense to me, I guess.
Speaker 3:I guess like what they all have in common, like the queer, the sexuality, the gender and the Polly of it all like kind of what that all has in common is that it's stepping outside of the norm.
Speaker 3:So it's that kind of like for me commitment to myself to do what feels good and do what feels right. And I definitely had some moment where I was like you know what I am not going to apologize for or change myself in a way that sacrifices my comfort If it doesn't sacrifice other people, like I'm not hurting anyone. My relationship style, my gender expression, my sexuality, that isn't. I mean my family can say it negatively impacts them, but like it doesn't, that's their fault.
Speaker 3:You know that's their own stuff they need to work through and you know, some people might say like well, I'm uncomfortable with it, and that's fine, you can be uncomfortable with it, but I'm not hurting you, it's my life and so I kind of get to decide what feels good.
Speaker 3:But there is definitely like a lot of grief, actually, which kind of surprised me where I was like, wow, and I've talked about it a lot but like the most successful thing that I ever created was this version of myself that I thought I was supposed to live, because I was living the life that had been presented to me.
Speaker 3:Like you go to school, you get a career, you get married, you settle down, you have this life, and then I realized like, oh, I'm actually trans, and not that that necessarily had to change anything. But it does did because it opened up. I started connecting with myself and what I wanted. And that just opened that door for a question that I want or is this what I think I'm supposed to do? And that unlearning was surprisingly scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I consciously created. It was somewhere between I don't want to say it was a character, because it was me making the decisions, but it was in a sense a character and letting go of that character and realizing that some of my actual traits are contrary to that character. I'm still a badass, but I'm not so aggressive and outspoken, I'm a little bit more of like oh, I just want everyone to have a good time, and I always felt this pressure Because I feel like a lot of womanhood is like you really have to stand up and be like no, and being trans is that way as well. That I guess I'm just in agreeing with you that the most successful thing I also created was this version of myself. That didn't serve me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's also a lot about getting ready for nice events now and how that feels different from when I was presenting female and what I thought was euphoria, like getting dressed up. Getting dressed up to go out, for example, or go to a wedding. And you're putting on makeup, you put on this dress and you're like I like hot. Yeah, it felt the same as plain dress up does as a kid, yeah, and I was like I'm doing it, I'm making it, it's working, I'm winning the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Whereas now, if I put on a suit, I still feel good and I still feel hot and I still feel ready to go. But it's not this like I'm going to fool all of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's totally true. It's the fooling thing.
Speaker 1:I went through that.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously it's different. But yeah, when I joined a sorority in college, I wanted to make myself look like this preppy what I think a sorority girl supposed to look like, or act like what I think a sorority girl is supposed to be like, even though a lot of that was like. I always felt kind of out of place or like, oh, this isn't really like. Yeah, whether it was like the way I was dressing or just I don't know, just yeah, the party environment or the just a lot of that was kind of like. Yeah, it felt like I was like forcing myself to, but I was like, oh, this is just what every girl is supposed to be like, or like, oh, I have to do this like fit in with like.
Speaker 1:Especially, the college I went to is just very focused on like the sorority and fraternity life was just like everything. So I feel like you kind of covered this a little bit but like, do you feel like your relationship together you've it's been helped? I mean I'm assuming it's going to be like. You feel like it's like helped you each to like with your own kind of journeys of like having each other, where you're both kind of going through transition.
Speaker 2:I think yes yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think, like from a queer side of that, like dating someone who is going through similar things, like I think that we are, we're different enough in terms of what we want, but we're both in the like similar stages of transitioning that it is like nice at least for me to have someone to kind of talk to.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is nice because it's like hard. Yeah, I don't know how anyone transitions without like a partner or like a really strong support system, because even not being in my hometown it's been challenging, because it's like there's a lot, you go through a lot and like financially, like and trying to work a job while you're going through puberty. We should all be nicer to teenagers, if anyone takes anything from this podcast episode.
Speaker 2:I think you should take. You should be nicer to teenagers, because it's like watching yourself go through puberty. But you have the self, you have the prefrontal cortex, you have the self awareness, but it still doesn't feel very in your control. So you're just like being awkward and pubescent. And you know you're being awkward and pubescent and you're having mood swings and you're looking weird and you just have to watch it happen.
Speaker 3:I have acne on my legs. Who gets acne on their legs? Me, as it turns out. Boys, as it turns out.
Speaker 2:I don't have that in my life. Well, good for you I could share my skincare routine with you, if you want.
Speaker 1:Great. Like I said at the beginning, we're all good friends, so it's like it's fun, because I'm like, oh, we're just having a conversation, but also I think people can listen and I think people really relate a lot to a lot of what you said and, yeah, are there any last things that you wish maybe people knew about? Like any of the stuff we've talked about?
Speaker 2:If you mess up someone's pronouns, just correct it in the sentence, please. Yeah, just don't. And then don't give me a lecture about how hard you're trying. Oh, I just, you know, it's just so hard like we don't want to. Just it doesn't have to be that deep, it really does not Like you don't have to feel bad about it. You can just correct yourself in the sentence.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess just like think about it in terms of like, if you accidentally call your friend by your other friend's, name you're like oh, I'm sorry, my bad.
Speaker 2:And then just like this literally, is just like correct when you notice. If you don't notice, but then you remember just the next time you talk to them, be sure to use it. And yeah, those are the little things that matter. We don't actually care. We don't want you to feel bad. No one is out here like I. Want every cis person to feel guilty.
Speaker 1:Feeling guilty is like an uncomfortable like feeling for people, so like, oh no, I feel guilty, so I just don't want to bring it up at all, or I don't want, or like almost I don't know if maybe some people think, oh, it's calling more attention to it by like correcting yourself, but that makes sense, and it's like, yeah, if someone calls me by a different name, I would.
Speaker 2:And then later, it's like I'm so sorry, I promise I know your name. And it's like, okay, you could show, Don't tell you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like the time I think of you, I'm like Shelly, shelly, shelly. I'm like, okay, I don't care, you know you're making it weird, like it's so, and that's what draws attention to it and makes it more uncomfortable for the person that's trans.
Speaker 2:It's just like if you and it's okay to feel guilty, I'm not saying like don't feel, you know I do these same things, like when my friends change pronouns and stuff. Like I actually got onto myself for a while because I would do the guilt thing with a specific friend's pronouns, but like when they weren't there, I would just be like alone and I'd be like I don't know why I keep doing that.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like I'm doing the thing, that I hate it when such people do so, like, just be nice to yourself about it and just like it's a habit. Just think of it as a habit. It's a habit like any other habit. It's going to take some time. You're going to have to correct yourself. It'll be fine. You're doing great.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you guys. Yeah, this was fun, yeah, this was super fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having us. I'm excited to see how it turns out.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the Situation Shift to Soulmate podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone you think would enjoy it, and don't forget to subscribe, write and review the podcast so it can reach other people who need it. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Situation Shift to Soulmate and feel free to shoot me an email at SituationShifttoSoulmate at gmailcom. See you next time.
